RKMBs
'Duck Dynasty' star Phil Robertson suspended by A&E


"Duck Dynasty" dad Phil Robertson has been placed on indefinite suspension by the A&E Network following his recent comments on homosexuality, the network announced Wednesday night.

"We are extremely disappointed to have read Phil Robertson's comments in GQ, which are based on his own personal beliefs and are not reflected in the series Duck Dynasty," the network said in a statement.

"His personal views in no way reflect those of A&E Networks, who have always been strong supporters and champions of the LGBT community. The network has placed Phil under hiatus from filming indefinitely."

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/201...-homosexuality/
Fuck off,GLAAD.
If he had said something antisemitic would you consider that rednecky too?

He of course has a right to his views but A&E also has the right not to use him on the show.
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
If he had said something antisemitic would you consider that rednecky too?


Well, yeah. Who wouldn't ?
redneckist!
I think your view would be different beyond that though.
A&E simply has no room for voices of dissent. All must conform to GLAAD's (MEM's) morality or they will be silenced.
Ah, there's the victim mentality you mentioned in another thread. It belonged to you all along.

You might feel entitled to say whatever you want consequent free but life doesn't work that way for most of us. That includes yours truly btw.
The original group trying to play victim here was A&E executives.

A&E has made millions off a show depicting real life "rednecks." Anyone who has watched even one commercial can see that the network's intent was to highlight how "backwoods" and "unsophisticated" these people supposedly are.

So, now, one of the very people they hired precisely because they wanted stupid rednecks says something consistent with the views many rednecks and now the network suddenly decides that kind of behavior is unacceptable?

I call b.s.

If they think giving that kind of a person a platform is wrong, then stop profiting from the show in the first place.
The guy said that homosexuality is a sin, which it is according to Christianity. He also lumped in adulterers, but I don't see anybody coming to their defense. I don't see anywhere where he calls them bad people or to treat them horribly as everybody that I know who watches the show says that they're a live and let live group of folks.

If you don't like what he said, it's your right to not watch the show. Let's be honest, though. You're probably not watching the show to begin with. Nor do I think that this is going to stop a lot of people from watching it. GQ released this particular part of the interview to get hype. And everyone, especially GLAAD, are helping them to sell more magazines.
this whole thing reeks of a publicity stunt on multiple fronts.
I just listened to Byron York on Greta Van Susteren's show, giving the statistics that manifest Phil Robertson's views are very mainstream.

45% of the public thinks homosexuality is immoral.

78% of Christian evangelicals think homosexuality is immoral.
79% of black evangelicals think homosexuality is immoral.

And that's not even getting into what others of Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist and other views think on the issue.

And as I've made clear many times, the Bible is crystal clear without the slightest ambiguity on the issue.

So... it is not "disgusting" or "hate" or "extremist" for Phil Robertson to voice the opinion that homosexuality is immoral. Quite the opposite, it's a very mainstream Christian/religious view. And a view far more mainstream than the organized homosexual groups who, in their clear hatred and intolerance of all views dissenting from their own, are demanding he be taken off the air.

Again proving that conservatives/Christians are the tolerant ones who allow others their lifestyle and free speech even though they disagree. Whereas liberals intolerantly demand all dissenters from their views be silenced.

I foresee a Chic-Fil-A-style blowback at liberals on this one.
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Ah, there's the victim mentality you mentioned in another thread. It belonged to you all along.

You might feel entitled to say whatever you want consequent free but life doesn't work that way for most of us. That includes yours truly btw.


Not sure where I claimed victimhood. It's just an objective observation of A&E 's morality and how it colors their policies.
I just dug up the latest Gallup poll on gay marriage, and not surprisingly, a majority of liberals support it, moderates slightly less, and about 65% of self-identified Republicans/conservatives still oppose it.

Although 2 points:
1) the pro-gay Left for the last 20 years has been carpet-bombing the public in news, tv, movies, etc., that being gay is harmless and just another lifestyle. While there has been virtually no counter-argument or pushback by Christians and other conservatives to cite the negatives, not just Biblically, but also in studies of homosexuality, that arguably prove it is NOT just an alternative lifestyle. Even when I was an agnostic, I intuitively felt this. And it is confirmed by many sources, largely uncited, in a one-way propaganda war by the Left.
2) Many people, even religious professionals, scientists, psychologists, political leaders, actors, news professionals, music stars, owners of corporations, have seen the huge backlash by the political Left at anyone who dares to voice a dissenting opinion toward gays, and are therefore in most cases intimidated into silence about voicing dissenting thought.
The previous Chic-Fil-A intimidation, and the current Phil Robertson/Duck Dynasty purge attempts being prime examples.

As as I cited before, even medical professionals attempting objective research on the subject of homosexuality are intimidated into silence, at threat of having their careers ended if they even potentially do research that raises the question objectively of whether homosexuality is inborn or learrned.
As in the PSYCHOLOGY TODAY magazine staffers who were liberal and pro-gay, but still attacked and threatened when they called for objective research on the subject.


Some REAL polls I'd like to see, as opposed to the liberal-skewed pro-gay ones, would ask:

Do you think gay marriage is acceptable? (which this Gallup one does).
Do you PERSONALLY approve of gay marriage, or is it something weird to you, that you merely tolerate? (NOT asked by Gallup.)
The question they asked about whether people perceive that most others approve/disapprove was a good question in the right direction by Gallup.
Do you feel that you are pressured/intimidated into silence and passive acceptance by those who advocate for gays?
And a specific breakdown of a variety of opinions on gay issues (do you support gay marriage, do you think it should be limited to civil unions but not marriage, do you feel gay advocacy stifles freedom of others, do you accept gay people within your family and social circles, regarding family/friends who are gay would you prefer if they were not, etc., to specifically define where the line of tolerance/acceptance/resigning true feelings in the face of PC intimidation, is drawn.)

I suspect if the questions were asked in a way that shed light on preference vs. acceptance, these rigged polls would manifest far less support for homosexuality across the board.
Tolerated, not shunned, yes.
But fully embraced and preferred, no way.

Which is hard to do, when the pollsters are as intimidated as the scientists, reporters, businesses, actors, musicians and clergy who study, report, or simply voice, a dissenting argument.
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man

He of course has a right to his views but A&E also has the right not to use him on the show.

This.

 Originally Posted By: Pariah
A&E simply has no room for voices of dissent. All must conform to GLAAD's (MEM's) morality or they will be silenced.

And there's nothing wrong with that. It's A&E's network, after all.

 Originally Posted By: the G-man
The original group trying to play victim here was A&E executives.

A&E has made millions off a show depicting real life "rednecks." Anyone who has watched even one commercial can see that the network's intent was to highlight how "backwoods" and "unsophisticated" these people supposedly are.

This too.

 Originally Posted By: the G-man
So, now, one of the very people they hired precisely because they wanted stupid rednecks says something consistent with the views many rednecks and now the network suddenly decides that kind of behavior is unacceptable?

I call b.s.

If they think giving that kind of a person a platform is wrong, then stop profiting from the show in the first place.

But not this.

It's not exactly fair to assume that he's racist and homophobic because he's a redneck. I've met quite a few racist rednecks in my life (I can't speak on their views on homosexuality since they never came up), but I've also met rednecks who were anything but.

Anyway, I don't think A&E did anything wrong here. They gave these guys a show, predicting its success based on hits like Honey Boo Boo, and suspended that show when the star said something that stood to alienate a large part of that show's fanbase.

No, what they did wasn't B.S. It was just stupid. They should have vetted their reality stars better, or at least put it in writing that these guys wouldn't say anything political while the show was still on air.

I was gonna reply to some of the other posts here, but I have to get ready for work, so, you know, whatevs.
 Originally Posted By: Jason E. Perkins
And there's nothing wrong with that. It's A&E's network, after all.


Of course. But that mentality's probably going to hurt them in the long run. Intolerance for certain opinions seems to exclude in its effort to include--or at least create an ironic juxtaposition in their attempt to project an image of "inclusiveness."

They're not even leaving room for argument. They're censoring.

Last I checked, the phrase "open discussion" carried more positive connotations than the term "censorship." A&E really has to dig deep into GLAAD's bag of victocratic knee-jerks and tolerance lectures to compensate for the move.

 Originally Posted By: Jason E. Perkins
Anyway, I don't think A&E did anything wrong here.


I don't think anyone here said they did wrong; entrepreneurs have a right to run their businesses however they like. Whatever decision they make, however, is not conducive to a productive business model--or an affirmative social policy for that matter.

 Quote:
They gave these guys a show, predicting its success based on hits like Honey Boo Boo, and suspended that show when the star said something that stood to alienate a large part of that show's fanbase.


Your parallels have cannibalized each other. Honey Boo Boo is, in and of itself, an offensive show that glorifies superficial and self-destructive lifestyles. By your logic, they would have taken that down a long time ago since it risks alienation.

GLAAD certainly houses people fanatical enough to campaign against any show containing a character--who isn't labeled as evil--that dissents with their morality. But there are two things to keep in mind: a) people, when afforded the chance, tend to allow others to keep their own opinions (despite what social liberals would have you believe), and b) it is not, by any means, logical to assume that their propaganda could reach--much less affect--the audience of Duck Dynasty--which is exactly why they'd go through the network itself for a hit job (no different than how they use the judiciary to override democratic measures against their preferred social policies).
Looks like the family is backing A&E into a corner and saying that they'll be no new episodes without their dad. Since it is the network's biggest moneymaker, I see them relenting in a month or so when this cools down because I doubt that they'll cancel the show and let the clan just sell themselves to another channel.
Now, this A&E needs to worry about. This could kill the show.

http://tv.yahoo.com/blogs/tv-news/-duck-...-173821415.html
 Quote:
"I never, with my eyes, saw the mistreatment of any black person. Not once," the reality star said of growing up in pre-Civil-Rights-era Louisiana. "Where we lived was all farmers. The blacks worked for the farmers. I hoed cotton with them. I'm with the blacks, because we're white trash. We're going across the field ... They're singing and happy. I never heard one of them, one black person, say, 'I tell you what: These doggone white people' — not a word!"

Robertson continued, "Pre-entitlement, pre-welfare, you say: Were they happy? They were godly; they were happy; no one was singing the blues."
 Originally Posted By: Jason E. Perkins
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man

He of course has a right to his views but A&E also has the right not to use him on the show.

This.


It is generally illegal to fire someone based on their religious beliefs.

He was being interviewed about his religious beliefs. The comments he made were expressions of said beliefs.

If one were to find (I don't know all the details of his contract with A&E and don't really care to research it) that A&E's actions constituted an adverse employment action, arguably, Robinson would have a cause of action for illegal termination/religious discrimination.
But clearly the judge will tell him to bake a big gay cake for GLAAD.
 Originally Posted By: Pariah
Of course. But that mentality's probably going to hurt them in the long run. Intolerance for certain opinions seems to exclude in its effort to include--or at least create an ironic juxtaposition in their attempt to project an image of "inclusiveness."


How do you think this will hurt A&E? What do you think the negative result will be?

 Originally Posted By: Pariah
They're not even leaving room for argument. They're censoring.


Honestly, I want to understand the side that thinks what you just wrote, so please explain to me a.) What you think A&E should have done (beyond keeping the show going), and b.) Who you think should be arguing the opposing side.

 Originally Posted By: Pariah
Last I checked, the phrase "open discussion" carried more positive connotations than the term "censorship."


Not really. Generally, people would rather eschew open discussion for confirmation bias.

 Originally Posted By: Pariah
A&E really has to dig deep into GLAAD's bag of victocratic knee-jerks and tolerance lectures to compensate for the move.


I don't know what this is supposed to mean.

 Originally Posted By: Pariah
I don't think anyone here said they did wrong;


So, to be clear, you don't consider A&E's "intolerance for certain opinions" or "censoring" to be wrong?

I don't mean that in some backhanded way. It's just that this thread seems filled with posters who feel A&E did wrong. Heck, the title is "A&E shocked when redneck says something...rednecky." It feels like most people here feel like A&E made the wrong decision.

 Quote:
Your parallels have cannibalized each other. Honey Boo Boo is, in and of itself, an offensive show that glorifies superficial and self-destructive lifestyles. By your logic, they would have taken that down a long time ago since it risks alienation.


Alienation of whom? Self-destructive behavior = ratings gold is a formula that had proven itself successful in shows long before Honey Boo Boo.

Or are you saying that self-destructive behavior was guaranteed to alienate a certain number of people (which is true), and that, by my logic, A&E would have taken the show down a long time ago, regardless of that what that number was, or how it related to the number of people it would have attracted?

 Quote:
GLAAD certainly houses people fanatical enough to campaign against any show containing a character--who isn't labeled as evil--that dissents with their morality.


You realize that there are a number of politicians and regular folks who, as a result of this, are campaigning against a network that they feel dissent with their moral position.

 Quote:
But there are two things to keep in mind:


Roger that.

 Quote:
a) people, when afforded the chance, tend to allow others to keep their own opinions (despite what social liberals would have you believe)


Two things:

What do you mean by "keep their own opinions"? Do you mean "speak their own opinions"?

Also, really? Do people here still do the whole "stick-and-jab with a broad brush" thing? No wonder I don't see any new liberals.

 Quote:
b) it is not, by any means, logical to assume that their propaganda could reach--much less affect--the audience of Duck Dynasty--which is exactly why they'd go through the network itself for a hit job (no different than how they use the judiciary to override democratic measures against their preferred social policies).


Who is the they in "their propaganda"? Are you talking about A&E, painting social liberals with a broad brush again, the LGBT community, or discussing someone else entirely? I think you're talking about the LGBT community, but I don't want to respond with a bunch of paragraphs to something you're not saying.

Edit: I know I didn't actually argue anything, but I figured I needed a clearer picture of what you were saying before I wasted paragraphs in reply.
 Originally Posted By: the G-man
It is generally illegal to fire someone based on their religious beliefs.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but A&E isn't firing the guy. They're just not renewing his contract. Therefore, those laws don't apply.
 Originally Posted By: Jason E. Perkins
How do you think this will hurt A&E? What do you think the negative result will be?


Losing the Duck Dynasty audience.

 Quote:
Honestly, I want to understand the side that thinks what you just wrote, so please explain to me a.) What you think A&E should have done (beyond keeping the show going), and b.) Who you think should be arguing the opposing side.


I can only tell you what I would have done. I would have let him have his opinion. He's not a news anchor or a panelist on a news show, but rather one man with an opinion. As such, it would be very easy for me, as a network head, to distance myself from his belief system by simply pointing out that we all think differently. And if we want to watch a reality show, that should be taken under consideration.

I don't necessarily think there should be an argument. I mean, it's a reality show featuring a series of like-minded individuals, and their mindsets are the reality. That format is not going to attract a mixed audience.

 Quote:
Not really. Generally, people would rather eschew open discussion for confirmation bias.


Unless someone calls censorship for what it is. That's why I mentioned positive and negative connotations.

When Rahm Immanuel went after Chick-Fil-Et by restricting their expansion into Chicago, he thought he could control the narrative by saying, "their values are not Chicago values," and thus use an alleged moral high ground to paint Chick-Fil-Et as a cousin of the KKK. I have no doubt he would have succeeded in tarnishing their image to the point of irredeemability if the Christian bases hadn't rallied their support for the franchise. But his narrative failed and he was forced to walk back his obvious suppression of Chick-Fil-Et's freedom to solicit wherever they could.

Similarly, a campaign against "censorship" can hurt A&E--especially since the cast of the show itself is protesting.

 Quote:
I don't know what this is supposed to mean.


It's about a battle of narratives.

I'm saying that, with the position that A&E is in, with the circumstances of the issue being what they are, the image of "censorship" is more prevalent and, as such, a stronger campaigning strategy than cries of "discrimination" by homosexuals.

 Quote:
So, to be clear, you don't consider A&E's "intolerance for certain opinions" or "censoring" to be wrong?

I don't mean that in some backhanded way. It's just that this thread seems filled with posters who feel A&E did wrong. Heck, the title is "A&E shocked when redneck says something...rednecky." It feels like most people here feel like A&E made the wrong decision.


They conducted their business how they saw fit. In my mind, you can never do any moral wrongs that way. The government thinks otherwise of course since you're not allowed to hire, house, or serve according to ethnicity, creed, or nationality. But I've never agreed with that and I never will.

Whether or not their actions are unlawful or anti-liberty makes very little difference to me. I may or may not view them as morally bankrupt for their recent behavior, but my own principles dictate that I have no business telling them they can't do what they've done--no matter how silly or authoritarian I believe it is.

 Quote:
Alienation of whom? Self-destructive behavior = ratings gold is a formula that had proven itself successful in shows long before Honey Boo Boo.


And you're saying that outspoken opinions wouldn't be?

You're contending that very few people would agree with what Robertson has said and, therefore, A&E risks losing viewers because of it. However, I guarantee you that very few people agree with the lifestyle of Honey Boo Boo's family, and yet the show's ratings are great. As such, it stands to reason that your assumption is either premature or terribly bias.

 Quote:
You realize that there are a number of politicians and regular folks who, as a result of this, are campaigning against a network that they feel dissent with their moral position.


Please clarify your meaning.

 Quote:
Two things:

What do you mean by "keep their own opinions"? Do you mean "speak their own opinions"?

Also, really? Do people here still do the whole "stick-and-jab with a broad brush" thing? No wonder I don't see any new liberals.


I mean being allowed not to conform to a position that their host network would find less than uncontroversial.

And there's no need to pull a Darknight. We're all good with generalizations here as long as they're.....generally accurate.

 Quote:
Who is the they in "their propaganda"? Are you talking about A&E, painting social liberals with a broad brush again, the LGBT community, or discussing someone else entirely? I think you're talking about the LGBT community, but I don't want to respond with a bunch of paragraphs to something you're not saying.


I'm talking about GLAAD. You can interpret that as the LGBT community if you wish since GLAAD basically acts as a coercive strong arm for that social group with little to no objections from its base.

 Originally Posted By: Jason E. Perkins
 Originally Posted By: the G-man
It is generally illegal to fire someone based on their religious beliefs.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but A&E isn't firing the guy. They're just not renewing his contract. Therefore, those laws don't apply.


But they'd be refusing to hire him according to his opinions and religious beliefs, so....
 Originally Posted By: Pariah
But clearly the judge will tell him to bake a big gay cake for GLAAD.


I don't necessarily agree.

A liberal/progressive judge, yes.
But one who is conservative (i.e., one who has respect for the rule of law) would rule on the facts, without consideration of political backlash.
 Originally Posted By: Pariah
and b) it is not, by any means, logical to assume that their propaganda could reach--much less affect--the audience of Duck Dynasty--which is exactly why they'd go through the network itself for a hit job (no different than how they use the judiciary to override democratic measures against their preferred social policies).


Yes!
 Originally Posted By: the G-man
So, now, one of the very people they hired precisely because they wanted stupid rednecks says something consistent with the views many rednecks and now the network suddenly decides that kind of behavior is unacceptable?

I call b.s.

If they think giving that kind of a person a platform is wrong, then stop profiting from the show in the first place.


 Originally Posted By: Jason E. Perkins

But not this.

It's not exactly fair to assume that he's racist and homophobic because he's a redneck. I've met quite a few racist rednecks in my life (I can't speak on their views on homosexuality since they never came up), but I've also met rednecks who were anything but.

Anyway, I don't think A&E did anything wrong here. They gave these guys a show, predicting its success based on hits like Honey Boo Boo, and suspended that show when the star said something that stood to alienate a large part of that show's fanbase.

No, what they did wasn't B.S. It was just stupid. They should have vetted their reality stars better, or at least put it in writing that these guys wouldn't say anything political while the show was still on air.



No.

The A & E executives have for YEARS seen the deeply Christian views of the Duck Dynasty family. They didn't get hooked into a business relationship with a family whose views were the slightest bit unclear to them.

I saw a report today that even before the GQ magazine interview, A&E had a month's notice on that as well. And beyond that, it is not the slightest bit shocking that their conservative Christian cast hold this belief about homosexuality, either from the CRYSTAL clear stance of the Bible they read, or the opinion polls of Christian evangelicals (78% think homosexuality is immoral, 79% of black Christians think it's immoral).

Add to that, A & E is supending Mr Robertson from NEW programs, but are running a marathon in the next week of existing episodes featuring the same guy they banned!
There is no moral stance by A & E, it's just pure money-motivation, and exploiting the controversy toward that end.

As the Doctor said above, they'll likely cut a deal with the Duck Dynasty family in the next few weeks, and continue to exploit them.

But I'd love if the Robertsons took a better deal and moved their show to another network, and cut these A & E assholes loose.
I don't think there will be any deal cutting at this point. How many sponsors want to chance more anus/vagina interviews after this?
A number of sponsors have already doubled down in support of Phil Roberts and the Duck Dynasty show.

And in the last day, Cracker Barrel -that had previously removed Duck Dynasty merchandise from their shelves-- have reversed themselves and apologized to Duck Dynasty viewers for offending them by attempting to boycott Duck Dynasty products from their stores. Apparently, while having no morals either way, they see that a majority of their clientele support Robertson/Duck Dynasty, and they have reversed themselves to conform to that.
A & E LIFTS PHIL ROBERTSON'S SUSPENSION FROM DUCK DYNASTY

 Quote:
According to People's TV WATCH, Duck Dynasty will resume filming in the new year. In a statement released Friday from A&E, it will include "the entire Robertson family," which includes the ever-controversial Phil Robertson.

A&E Networks had previously suspended Robertson after his interview with GQ magazine expressing his anti-gay beliefs. A&E's statement continues: "While Phil's comments made in the interview reflect his personal views based on his own beliefs, and his own personal journey, he and his family have publicly stated they regret the 'coarse language' he used and the misinterpretation of his core beliefs based only on the article," the statement continued. "He also made it clear he would 'never incite or encourage hate.'"

The network also says it will air PSAs "promoting unity, tolerance and acceptance among all people."



i.e., A & E has no moral principles whatsoever, and they're just lipping empty PC language to appease all sides, as they continue to cash in on the program's success.


Gee, who would have seen this coming?
What a joke. They've been running marathons of episodes with Phil Robertson the whole time this controversy has been unfolding. No principle involved here toward any side from A & E, just posturing, appeasement, and cashing in.
they probably realized that the people who were offended by Phil Robertson's remarks are people who read GQ mag, and not necessarily the people who actually watch Duck Dynasty. When they catered to the party that isn't really their audience, they offended the ones that are bringing them money.

Props go to GQ for trolling both sides and getting a lot of exposure and magazine sales out of it.
I think the media is making more of a big deal out of this than the average person cares about his remarks.
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
I don't think there will be any deal cutting at this point. How many sponsors want to chance more anus/vagina interviews after this?


Yeah, how did that work out again?
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
I don't think there will be any deal cutting at this point. How many sponsors want to chance more anus/vagina interviews after this?


‘Duck Dynasty’ gets Phil Robertson back: A&E said Friday it’s reinstating “Duck Dynasty” patriarch Phil Robertson

Sorry, MEM, maybe next time the gays should try boycotting a show they actually watched in the first place.
It's ok, the gays at A&E will be collecting the big bucks while the fans will get some educational psa.

I do however recognize that conservative were willing to throw the bigger hissy fit with threats of boycotts and even murder.
I believe you'll find there's a sizable difference between using boycotts to silence someone and using them to give someone a voice.

A boycott is not a principle unto itself. It's more like a neutral facilitator of a given principle. In this case, it was encouraging free speech. In a typical case involving GLAAD, it's used to suppress speech--which is exactly what they tried to do with Robertson.

No need to obfuscate. Just be a graceful loser and move on to the next GLAAD skirmish.
\:lol\:
It's ok if a conservative does it!
It's okay if anyone boycotts. It's perfectly legal. The issue at hand is the motivation for boycotting.

But you knew that already...and you ignored it.
\:lol\:
Now I'm what, trying to trick you into thinking boycotts are illegal instead of a reference to all the bitching you and other conservatives do when you don't like them? Nice strawman silly boy but if you're making one at least give it a cock.
Boycotting is, after all, the subject at hand. Just because you applied a definition of "bitching" to it (in the case of conservatives alone), that doesn't mean you successfully shifted the focus.

GLAAD tried to use threats of boycotting to silence people. In response, conservatives used threats of boycotting to boost freedom of speech.

You lose again.
Where did GLAAD threaten a boycott over this?

Plus we should also consider that A&E may have changed their mind because of all the death threats they were receiving.
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Where did GLAAD threaten a boycott over this?


It's exactly what their organization was designed to do. In their own words, they "leverage" other corporations or institutions to comply with their principles using social engineering tactics. Boycotting is a basic necessity for the success of their campaigns.

 Quote:
Plus we should also consider that A&E may have changed their mind because of all the death threats they were receiving.


A&E already knew long before the suspension that their decision was going to get a shit ton of blowback--which is exactly why the did it. As such, they also knew that they would eventually reinstate him, thus making it seem like they were sensitive to both sides of the issue.

So no. A fear motive is just wishful thinking on your part.
Here's the bottom line:

He was suspended as a kneejerk reaction to what A&E thought would be market pressure to have him taken off, forgetting that the show appeals to a market segment that would be, at worst, indifferent to his comments. Being concerned that gays and urban liberals will stop watching duck dynasty is a little like fretting over Republicans boycotting Rachel Maddow. They were never and were never going to be the target audience in the first place.

They-and the gay lobbyists-also ignored that their star was an independently wealthy hillbilly that wasn't going to apologize for his beliefs. Nobody who lives the way that guy does is anything but in iconoclast.

And as far as advertisers go anyone advertising on duck dynasty has already figured out who the viewers are and whether they want to reach those viewers with their products. And again it isn't homosexuals or urban liberals

Poorly conceived suspension and poorly conceived boycott threat.
 Originally Posted By: Son of Mxy
they probably realized that the people who were offended by Phil Robertson's remarks are people who read GQ mag, and not necessarily the people who actually watch Duck Dynasty. When they catered to the party that isn't really their audience, they offended the ones that are bringing them money.

Props go to GQ for trolling both sides and getting a lot of exposure and magazine sales out of it.



I always assume that people who actually read books and magazines are not easily offended, and (other than PC liberals trying to ban TOM SAWYER by Twain) I've never heard of a censorship drive rising from something in print. Only to something on television or video/broadcast news.

A & E and Cracker Barrell (over-reacting to gay fringe group GLAAD) assumed that readers of GQ and Crackerbarrel shoppers would react the same way as GLAAD and gay secularists. It just demonstrates how little they bothered to understand the stars of their own show, and their audience.
As I understand, there are gays who work at A & E who were offended by the remark and pushed for the suspension. Projecting their own liberal intolerance onto their conservative audience, who were rightly offended.

A & E and Crackerbarrel were both lucky, that despite their offense, their conservative audience would rather have Duck Dynasty than stay mad at A & E.
Just the same, I would have loved to see the Robertsons walk away from A & E, and take their hot property to another network.
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
It's ok, the gays at A&E will be collecting the big bucks while the fans will get some educational psa.

I do however recognize that conservative were willing to throw the bigger hissy fit with threats of boycotts and even murder.



Oh yeah. MURDER!
Who the fuck are you kidding, M E M?
 Originally Posted By: Pariah
Boycotting is, after all, the subject at hand. Just because you applied a definition of "bitching" to it (in the case of conservatives alone), that doesn't mean you successfully shifted the focus.

GLAAD tried to use threats of boycotting to silence people. In response, conservatives used threats of boycotting to boost freedom of speech.

You lose again.


Exactly.
Despite M E M-spin otherwise, those are the facts.
Oh, just ignore him, WB. The 'death threat' spin is just a variation on his 'all conservatives are violent gun clingers' fantasy
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Where did GLAAD threaten a boycott over this?

Plus we should also consider that A&E may have changed their mind because of all the death threats they were receiving.


The death threats was reported on by ABC news and other news agencies. Are they part of some Duck Dynasty conspiracy? Perhaps it's inconvenient for your side to acknowledge death threats here but normally people take them seriously.

Also I saw no reports about GLAAD actually threatening a boycott. If somebody can link to some evidence that they did it would be much appreciated.
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
I don't think there will be any deal cutting at this point. How many sponsors want to chance more anus/vagina interviews after this?
 Quote:
Duck Dynasty star: Girls should carry a Bible, cook and marry ‘when they are 15′
By David Edwards
Sunday, December 29, 2013 15:25 EST


Recently uncovered video indicates that Duck Dynasty star Phil Robertson may have fringe views — other than those on homosexuality and civil rights — that most Americans would find far outside the mainstream.

In a controversial interview with GQ that was published online this month, Robertson had compared homosexuality to bestiality and terrorism. He also said that African-Americans were happy during the Jim Crow-era.

The A&E network briefly suspended the reality TV star before bowing to pressure from fans and reinstating him only days later.

But some Americans could also be shocked to find out that Robertson believes that the age of 15 is the perfect time for girls to get married — as long as they can cook and carry a Bible.

At a Sportsmen’s Ministry talk in 2009, Robertson had some advice for a young man.

“Make sure that she can cook a meal, you need to eat some meals that she cooks, check that out,” he said. “Make sure she carries her Bible. That’ll save you a lot of trouble down the road. And if she picks your ducks, now, that’s a woman.”

“They got to where they’re getting hard to find,” Robertson remarked. “Mainly because these boys are waiting until they get to be about 20 years old before they marry ‘em. Look, you wait until they get to be 20 years old, the only picking that’s going to take place is your pocket.”

The Duck Commander company founder added: “You got to marry these girls when they are about 15 or 16, they’ll pick your ducks. You need to check with mom and dad about that of course.”

He went on to say that the Bible gave Americans the right to hunt.

And Robertson practices what he preaches. He began dating his wife, Kay, when she was only 14 and he was 18. They waited until Kay was 16 to get married.

Raw
Interesting.


That article would better be titled:
RAW AND THE LEFT DESPERATELY TRY TO SMEAR POPULAR CONSERVATIVE DUCK DYNASTY STAR


It's laughable how much your desperation is showing.

I see this all the time, when RAW and Media Matters take comments that were clearly said with humor, and try to demonize conservatives by spinning them as being said in a completely serious context.

Thinking that comments like this...

 Quote:
“Make sure that she can cook a meal, you need to eat some meals that she cooks, check that out,” he said. “Make sure she carries her Bible. That’ll save you a lot of trouble down the road. And if she picks your ducks, now, that’s a woman.”


...were said with deadpan seriousness, just shows how humorless liberals truly are.


Or Phil Robertson's vilified comments from his GQ interview on homosexuality:
 Quote:
A woman has a vagina, the man has an anus. I'm sorry, but I just think the woman has a lot more to offer...



If you can't see the clear humor in that, you truly are blind.
Did he think it was a joke when he married his own wife when she was 16?
...and they've been married how long now?

Seems whatever their relationship secret is, it works for them
WB wasn't disputing their happiness but was trying to say Robertson was joking. I don't think he was and I'm guessing you don't either.
It's definitely tongue in cheek.

I'm sure he'd think society would be better off living the way he does (and has), but at the same time he thinks its too backwards to understand its virtues, thus making a scenario where people actually took his advice foreseeably less effective than it could be. In truth, it's rather satirical.

If people had the opportunity to get married at younger ages--and did--that would suggest a society that took marriage a lot more seriously than ours does at this point.
Because you make the best decisions when your 15 or younger?
Again, the kids of yesteryear...perhaps I should say decade (even century) were miles more practical than modern day.

Right now, we're stuck with a poorly educated, lazy youth that lives in a shitty economy.
Also, speaking for my own family, my paternal grandparents married when they were sixteen and seventeen. They stayed together their entire lives.
Uh oh.

Just when you thought it was safe to voice an un-PC dissenting point of view again...


EVANDER HOLYFIELD GETS BACKLASH AFTER HIS INTERVIEW COMMENT THAT BEING GAY IS "NOT NORMAL" AND "LIKE A HANDICAP THAT CAN BE FIXED"


Roughly half the population holds that view, I fail to see why this is controversial.
The intolerance of the Left/gays on display again.

It's a case of treating others like you want to be treated. If you want to say things that offend other people sometimes people will let you know their offended.
They're threatening to kick him off a reality show for having an opinion....again. By your definition, that's intolerance.
It's like being at work though. If I informed the fat coworker who stuffs his face that he's sinning I probably would lose my job. If the Catholic informed the Jew that they're going to hell they would lose their job. (or vice versa) Life isn't like a message board.

He's also getting paid to be there and agreed to certain terms.
Having an opinion does not equate to a verbal attack. You're not telling him--or the workplace incidents you presuppose--to cut down on insults, but rather to censor his views.
If I talked about the sin of gluttony in front of a fat person at work, calling it an opinion wouldn't cut it with HR.
that's actually pushing your beliefs regarding the sin of gluttony on the fat person.

the better analogy is if someone was asking you about your thoughts on gluttony and you voiced it out, and then the fat person overheard it and got offended.
Identifying intolerance elsewhere doesn't justify its practice anywhere else.
 Originally Posted By: Son of Mxy
that's actually pushing your beliefs on the fat person.

the better analogy is if someone was asking you about your thoughts on gluttony and you voiced it out, and then the fat person overheard it and got offended.


Which is exactly the issue with Holyfield.
yeah, I was pointing out that MEM's analogies do not apply to the holyfield issue. someone was specifically asking for his opinion and he gave it. nothing wrong with that (not the opinion, just the act of voicing it out when asked)
Didn't they just ask him if he knew of any gay boxers?
Sizzman said it would be good to have homosexual boxers. Holyfield responded in dissent. She initiated the conversation.
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
It's a case of treating others like you want to be treated. If you want to say things that offend other people sometimes people will let you know their offended.


The entire premise of homosexuality as "civil right" is that people are born that way and suffer because it it.

essentially the analogy that Holyfield drew is exactly the argument that gays use to justify preferential treatment.
 Originally Posted By: Pariah
Sizzman said it would be good to have homosexual boxers. Holyfield responded in dissent. She initiated the conversation.


So we can agree that she didn't actually ask him about his views? She made a comment and he responded. Keep in mind this is Celebrity Big Brother btw. He signed up for this.
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
So we can agree that she didn't actually ask him about his views? She made a comment and he responded. Keep in mind this is Celebrity Big Brother btw. He signed up for this.


She volunteered her own opinions without provocation and, therefore, he's not allowed to volunteer his unless they're simpatico with hers?

Sounds like the very definition of intolerance and double standards to me. I doubt Celebrity Big Brother included that stipulation in his contract.
It's ironic. In the field of criminal law and constitutional law in regards to confessions liberals have long recognized the concept that somebody's statements can be elicited without a direct question. Instead, the issue is whether a statement is reasonably likely to elect a response from the other party.
So you think when she made her statement she was actually asking him what his views on homosexuality were?
I also mention again this is Celebrity Big Brother. Actual celebrities usually know better than to be on it.
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
So you think when she made her statement she was actually asking him what his views on homosexuality were?


As noted above, when someone makes a statement that is reasonably likely to elicit a response, you can't pretend to be suprised when they actually respond.

As to your other points, as you note, this is "Celebrity Big Brother." Again, the whole point of these shows is to have people act in ways that are interesting or controversial. If someone says something short of a direct threat why would you "fire" them?
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
So you think when she made her statement she was actually asking him what his views on homosexuality were?


I realize you're going to cling onto this tune for dear life now, but the more you ignore the fact that she engaged him in conversation, the more you imply that the forum she created--which the show apparently had no problem with--was only open and tolerant towards certain views.

We understand that you're intolerant. No need to stress the point.
Don't forget disabled!


You'll note that a just a couple of posts ago ...
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
... She made a comment and he responded.


I'm just saying she didn't ask him for his views from what I've read.
 Originally Posted By: Pariah
She volunteered her own opinions without provocation and, therefore, he's not allowed to volunteer his unless they're simpatico with hers?

Sounds like the very definition of intolerance and double standards to me. I doubt Celebrity Big Brother included that stipulation in his contract.
Sorry I don't own Celebrity Big Brother. What they allow is up to them, correct?
You're passing the buck again.

CBB wasn't the one that tried to offer up examples of workplace discrimination as analogues to this scenario. You were.

No need to deny your intolerance.
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
...What they allow is up to them, correct?

Another simple question Pariah.
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Sorry I don't own Celebrity Big Brother. What they allow is up to them, correct?


So, you support the Vikings for (allegedly) firing Chris Kluwe?
First answer the question G. You have to give a little to get.
You mean like how you "answered" my questions in the gay marriage thread?

 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
...What they allow is up to them, correct?

Another simple question Pariah.


As I said on the first page of this thread: in my mind, a network can air or not air whatever view it wants for whatever reason regardless of the laws that say otherwise. In this case, however, the only laws that are relevant to the issue involve the network's intolerance toward Holyfield for offering his opinion in a conversation instigated by Lizzman. Normally, you have an appreciation for these laws except, in this instance, it doesn't support your own views, and so you're cool with it.

Both they and you have a God-given right to fire people for their belief-systems. The issue here is that you refuse to admit to your approval of that practice.

 Originally Posted By: Pariah
You're passing the buck again.

CBB wasn't the one that tried to offer up examples of workplace discrimination as analogues to this scenario. You were.

No need to deny your intolerance.
MEM's been stringing you guys along. You're playing into his hand, or dancing like puppets when he pulls the string. I forgot which.
Uh....Uhh--Yeah! They totally fell for it. Obviously I'm just playing them like...Uhh...Puppets. Yeah.

-MEM
 Originally Posted By: Pariah
You mean like how you "answered" my questions in the gay marriage thread?


Your question didn't make sense to me.

 Originally Posted By: Pariah
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
...What they allow is up to them, correct?

Another simple question Pariah.


As I said on the first page of this thread: in my mind, a network can air or not air whatever view it wants for whatever reason regardless of the laws that say otherwise. In this case, however, the only laws that are relevant to the issue involve the network's intolerance toward Holyfield for offering his opinion in a conversation instigated by Lizzman. Normally, you have an appreciation for these laws except, in this instance, it doesn't support your own views, and so you're cool with it.

Both they and you have a God-given right to fire people for their belief-systems. The issue here is that you refuse to admit to your approval of that practice.

 Originally Posted By: Pariah
You're passing the buck again.

CBB wasn't the one that tried to offer up examples of workplace discrimination as analogues to this scenario. You were.

No need to deny your intolerance.


Like yourself I see their right to do the show. As somebody who's seen the show, this is how they do the show. If Big Brother doesn't like what contestants are doing or saying they warn them and sometimes threaten removal. The boxer is their big star this season so despite the threat, they won't actually remove him. While I found his comments offensive I don't feel the show needs to remove him either. I just recognize the show for what it is though. The boxer is their big star and as long as he's interesting they'll actually maneuver things to try to keep him in.
Except you didn't try to stand up for their inalienable rights to fire people according to their prerogative. You tried to use legal precedent to rationalize the network letting him go on the grounds of discrimination. When you saw how easily that flipped on you, you backpedaled.

According to both you and the law, Holyfield was discriminated against for his views (especially seeing as how Lizzman wasn't reprimanded for her own), and that puts the legal precedent--which you love so dearly--squarely in Holyfield's court.

My own principles wouldn't be violated by Holyfield being fired, but yours would.

 Originally Posted By: Matter-Eater Man
Your question didn't make sense to me.


Sure JQ. Suuuuuuurre.
Holyfield wasn't discriminated against nor did Lizzman say anything that disparaged a group of people.
So "disparaging a group of people" is now punishable speech?
Does that apply to any group?
This gets back to what I was saying about the work place. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from repercussions of what you say.
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
It's a case of treating others like you want to be treated. If you want to say things that offend other people sometimes people will let you know their offended.



In other words, you think gays have a right to free speech, but Christians and others who as a scriptural fact of their religious faith think homosexuality is immoral, are not entitled to the same free speech and should be silenced.

Frankly, when gays express this attitude, they really deserve to be beaten up and killed.
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
It's a case of treating others like you want to be treated. If you want to say things that offend other people sometimes people will let you know their offended.



In other words, you think gays have a right to free speech, but Christians and others who as a scriptural fact of their religious faith think homosexuality is immoral, are not entitled to the same free speech and should be silenced.

Frankly, when gays express this attitude, they really deserve to be beaten up and killed.


Shame on you.
Advertisers spend more on Duck Dynasty spots than for top rated network shows.

Congratulations, GLAAD.
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
This gets back to what I was saying about the work place. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from repercussions of what you say.


So you support the Vikings firing Chris Kluwe for supporting gay marriage?
 Originally Posted By: Pariah
Also, speaking for my own family, my paternal grandparents married when they were sixteen and seventeen. They stayed together their entire lives.



Mine also married in 1933 when they were 16, and didn't finish high school. My grandfather worked hard, sometimes 16 hours a day, then finally landed a good job for a dairy company and moved up, raising four children, all of whom graduated college. As have their grandchildren.
They stayed married until my grandmother died in 2004.

While ostensibly "uneducated" in the high school graduation and college sense, they were highly literate, read books and newspapers and were very well informed. Ray Bradbury and Harlan Ellison come to mind as two writers of their era who likewise never went to college.

So, yeah, it was an era where college education was not required.

And I know several business owners in the modern era who likewise have only a high school diploma, or less, and are doing as well or better than others with college degrees. Brothers in arms with the Duck Dynasty crowd.
 Originally Posted By: the G-man
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
It's a case of treating others like you want to be treated. If you want to say things that offend other people sometimes people will let you know their offended.


The entire premise of homosexuality as "civil right" is that people are born that way and suffer because it it.

essentially the analogy that Holyfield drew is exactly the argument that gays use to justify preferential treatment.




How can homosexuality be held up as a right based on biological "fact" when there is so much evidence for the counter-argument that it is NOT a fact. And is, in fact, demonstrably harmful to those who practice homosexuality.

 Quote:

Homosexuality - Genetics, Religious Upbringing, Culture, Sexual Abuse, and Choice

Genetics and Claims of the immutability of homosexuality

For more information please see: Homosexuality and Genetics

A common argument is that an inclination to homosexuality is inborn and immutable. It is widely believed that the public will become more accepting of homosexuality if they are convinced that it is inborn and immutable. For example, neuroscientist and homosexual Simon Levay stated: "...people who think that gays and lesbians are born that way are also more likely to support gay rights."[3]

Research into the issue of the origins of homosexuality suggests that adoptive brothers are more likely to both be homosexuals than the biological brothers, who share half their genes which suggests that homosexuality is not genetically caused. [4][5] This data prompted the journal Science to report "this . . . suggests that there is no genetic component, but rather an environmental component shared in families".[6][7] However, in regards to psychosocial and biological theories in regards to the origin of homosexuality, Columbia University psychiatry professors Drs. William Byrne and Bruce Parsons stated in 1994: "There is no evidence that at present to substantiate a biological theory. [T]he appeal of current biological explanations for sexual orientation may derive more from dissatisfaction with the present status of psychosocial explanations than from a substantiating body of experimental data".[8]

Dr. Tahir I. Jaz, M.D., Winnipeg, Canada states: "The increasing claims of being "born that way" parallels the rising political activism of homosexual organizations, who politicize the issue of homosexual origins. In the 1970s, approximately ten percent of homosexuals claimed to be "born homosexual" according to a large scale survey....However, in a survey in the 1980s, with the homosexual rights movement increasingly becoming active, thirty-five percent claimed to be born that way.[9]

Religious Upbringing and Culture Can Strongly Affect Rates of Homosexuality

For more information please see: Religious Upbringing and Culture Affects Rates of Homosexuality

Dr. Neil Whitehead is a research scientist and biochemist from New Zealand and is his wife Briar Whitehead is a writer.[10] Dr. Whitehead coauthored a book with with his wife entitled My Genes Made Me Do it - a scientific look at sexual orientation which argues that there is no genetic determinism in regards to homosexuality (homosexuals are "not born that way") and that there is abundant documentation that individuals are able to leave homosexuality and become heterosexuals.[11]





Homosexuality appears to be rare in Orthodox Jews.
Dr. Whitehead and Briar Whitehead declared:

“ If homosexuality were significantly influenced by genes, it would appear in every culture, but in twenty-nine of seventy-nine cultures surveyed by Ford and Beach in 1952, homosexuality was rare or absent. It was very rare in the Siriono, even though there were no prohibitions on homosexual relationships in that culture. The researcher observed only one man displaying slight homosexual traits but apparently not sexually involved with another man. Homosexuality appears to be rare among Orthodox Jews [Orthodox Judaism forbids homosexuality], so much so that learned rabbis, the interpreters of Jewish law, usually allowed men to sleep in the same bed, because likelihood of sexual contact was considered negligible. Kinsey also found very low homosexual incidence among Orthodox Jews...
This evidence comes from missionaries who commonly spend 25 years of their lives living in one culture, far more than almost any anthropologist....Overall they can be considered as reliable witnesses. For example, in contrast to groups like the Sambia in the New Guinea highlands, where homosexuality was compulsory, only about 2-3 percent of Western Dani (also in the New Guinea highlands) practiced it. However, in another group of Dani who were genetically related, homosexuality was totally unknown. Missionaries report that when they were translating the Bible into Dani for this group, their tribal assistants, who knew their own culture intimately, were nonplused by references to homosexuality in Romans 1; they did not understand the concept. Another missionary, with the same group for 25 years, overheard many jests and sexually ribald exchanges among the men, but never a single mention of homosexuality in all that time. When Dani went to help with missionary work among the Sambia, they were astounded at some of the homosexual practices they saw for the first time. Although it is always difficult for a foreigner to be completely sure whether a rare and stigmatized behavior exists, it is certainly true that if three such different experiences of homosexuality can occur in groups of people so closely related genetically, genetically enforced homosexuality is an impossibility.[12]


Individuals Raised in Large Cities Versus Individuals Raised in Suburbs, Towns, and Countrysides

In 1994, the book Sex in America: A definitive survey by Robert T. Michael, John H. Gagnon, Edward O. Laumann, and Gina Kolata stated the following:

“ We discovered that people who were raised in large cities were more likely to be homosexual than people who were raised in suburb, towns, or the countryside. This relationship also showed up in the General Social Survey, an independent national sample.[13] ”

The aforementioned authors Dr. Whitehead and Briar Whitehead similarly wrote:

“ There is a much higher incidence of homosexuality among those who have been raised in large cities, rather than in rural areas, arguing that the environment is much more powerful than genes in the development of homosexuality.[14] ”

Failure of Experiments to Show Genetic Determinism For Homosexuality

For more information please see: Failure of Experiments to Show Genetic Determinism For Homosexuality

Dr. Dean Hamer is a researcher often cited to show that there is empirical data supporting the notion of genetic determinism in regards to homosexuality. News organizations like National Public Radio and Newsweek have done news stories regarding his work.[15] In respect to the press trumpeting various findings genetics-of-behavior research uncritically the science journal Science stated the following in 1994:

“ Time and time again, scientists have claimed that particular genes or chromosomal regions are associated with behavioral traits, only to withdraw their findings when they were not replicated. "Unfortunately," says Yale's [Dr. Joel] Gelernter, "it's hard to come up with many" findings linking specific genes to complex human behaviors that have been replicated. "...All were announced with great fanfare; all were greeted unskeptically in the popular press; all are now in disrepute."[16] ”

Volition as a Causal Factor of Homosexuality - Homosexuality as a Choice

In regards to the issue of homosexuality and choice, given the existence of ex-homosexuals and given the existence of human cultures where homosexuality has apparently not existed, the position that homosexuality is ultimately a choice in individuals or at the very least can be a choice in individuals has strong evidential support. In short, there is a strong argument that one can leave homosexuality.

Also, in 2012 ABC News reported concerning actress Cynthia Nixon: "Cynthia Nixon stands by her statement that she is gay by choice, despite the backlash she’s received from members of the gay community."[17] In addition, given that the homosexual population has significantly higher rates of many diseases and the homosexual population also has significantly lower rates of various measures of mental health it can be strongly argued that engaging in homosexual acts is a bad choice for individuals. Another other factor that makes engaging in homosexual acts a bad choice for individuals is the significantly higher rates of domestic violence in homosexual couples. In addition, according to experts homosexual murders are relatively or quite common and often homosexual murders are very brutal. Also, the homosexual population has a greater propensity to engage in illegal drug use.

A 2003 poll done by Ellison Research of Phoenix, Arizona stated that 82% of all American Protestant ministers agreed with the statement “homosexuality is a choice people make".[18]

Ex-Homosexuals





St. Paul defends his preaching (Giovanni Ricco)
For more information please see: Ex-Homosexuals and Overcoming Homosexuality and Resources on becoming a Christian

In regards to the question of whether or not homosexuality is a permanent condition, one of the earliest historical records regarding of the existence of ex-homosexuals is a letter of the Apostle Paul to the Corinthian Christian church.

The Apostle Paul taught that homosexuality is a sin when he wrote the following:

“ Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." - I Corinthians 6:9-11 (NIV) ”

Today people still report leaving homosexuality and becoming heterosexual through their Christian faith.[19][20][21][22][23]





Ex-Homosexual and ex-"gay rights" leader Michael Glatze speaking to the mother of Matthew Shepard.
Peter LaBarbera is the President of Americans for Truth which is a organization which counters the homosexual agenda. Peter LaBarbera stated the following regarding Christian ex-homosexuals who reported being transformed by the power of God:

“ Another factor from my experience as a close observer of the “ex-gay” phenomenon is that many former homosexuals do not linger in “reparative therapy” programs, or participate in them at all. They attribute their dramatic and (relatively) rapid transformation to the power of God, and likely would not show up in a study of this kind. In fact, these “unstudied” overcomers would appear to be the most successful ex-homosexuals because they’ve moved on with their lives — as “reborn” Christians move on after overcoming any besetting sin.[24] ”

In respect to Peter LaBarbera's statement above regarding homosexuals overcoming homosexuality through the power of God, in 1980 a study was published in the American Journal of Psychiatry and eleven men participated in this study. The aforementioned study in the American Journal of Psychiatry stated that eleven homosexual men became heterosexuals "without explicit treatment and/or long-term psychotherapy" through their participation in a Pentecostal church.[25] The Apostle Paul in a letter to the church of Corinth indicated that Christians were able to overcome being drunkards through the power of Jesus Christ (I Corinthians 6:9-11).

Dr. Whitehead and Briar Whitehead state in their aforementioned book the following regarding ex-homosexuals overcoming homosexuality:

“ The sexology literature reports a huge number of examples of change of all degrees from homosexuality to or toward heterosexuality. These studies have been so numerous that West (a gay man) in 1977 took an entire chapter in his classic book, Homosexuality Re-examined, to review them, and commented: “Although some militant homosexuals find such claims improbable and unpalatable, authenticated accounts have been published of apparently exclusive and long-standing homosexuals unexpectedly changing their orientation.”
West mentions one man who was exclusively homosexual for eight years, then became heterosexual...

Another well known author in the field, Hatterer, who believes in sexual orientation change, said, “I’ve heard of hundreds of ... men who went from a homosexual to a heterosexual adjustment on their own.”[26]


Hate Crime Law Misapplied to Ex-homosexual

See: Hate Crime Law Misapplied to Ex-homosexual

Anti-Homosexuality Blogs

Two of the more popular anti-homosexuality blogs are Americans For Truth and Gay Christian Movement Watch. The blog Americans For Truth is run by Peter LaBarbera and the blog Gay Christian Movement Watch is run by Pastor D.L. Foster.

2006 Survey Finds Homosexual Men Seek to Become Ex-homosexuals Often Do So to Heal Emotional Pain or For Spiritual Reasons

A 2006 survey finds homosexual men seek to leave homosexual lifestyle to heal emotional pain and for spiritual reasons rather than outside pressure. In addition, there is other data that supports the above 2006 survey findings.





Dr. Alex D. Montoya wrote:"The Christian needs to befriend and witness to the homosexual with such love, compassion, and wisdom that such will respond to the saving grace of God."[27]
Homosexuality and the Bible

For additional information please see: Homosexuality and biblical interpretation and Homosexuality and the Bible and Atheism and homosexuality

In respect to homosexuality and the Bible, sound Bible exegesis and Bible exposition demonstrates that the Bible condemns homosexuality.[28][29][30][31] In addition, Christian apologist JP Holding refutes various arguments that assert that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality.[32][33][34][35][36] In his essay which examines the biblical passages regarding homosexuality, Pastor and Associate Professor of Pastoral Ministries at The Master's Seminary Dr. Alex D. Montoya states that "The Christian needs to befriend and witness to the homosexual with such love, compassion, and wisdom that such will respond to the saving grace of God."[37]

Biblical City of Sodom, Homosexuality, and Archaeology

The Bible clearly associates the city of Sodom with homosexuality (Genesis 19:4-9), although the Bible associates with Sodom other sins as well. Claims that the primary reason for Sodom's judgment was inhospitality are not supported by sound Bible exegesis.[38][39]

The Bible states regarding Sodom:

...the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven, and He overthrew those cities, and all the valley, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground. Genesis 19:24-25

Dr. Bryant Wood's Archaeological Investigation in Relation to Sodom





Destruction of Sodom by God
The following was reported in respect to Dr. Bryant Wood's archaeological work in relating to the biblical city of Sodom:

“ Most intriguing was evidence that a massive fire had destroyed the city. It lay buried under a coating of ash several feet thick. A cemetery one kilometer outside the city contained charred remains of roofs, posts, and bricks turned red from heat.
Dr. Bryant Wood, in describing these charnel houses, stated that a fire began on the roofs of these buildings. Eventually the burning roof collapsed into the interior and spread inside the building. This was the case in every house they excavated. Such a massive fiery destruction would match the biblical account that the city was destroyed by fire that rained down from heaven. Wood states, "The evidence would suggest that this site of Bab edh-Drha is the biblical city of Sodom."[40]


Dr. Wood provides some additional material in relation to the find being the biblical city of Sodom.[41][42]

Homosexuality and Promiscuity

For related information see: Homosexuality and promiscuity and Homosexuality Statistics

A 2004 article by Michael Foust states:

“ A new study by a group of University of Chicago researchers reveals a high level of promiscuity and unhealthy behavior among that city's homosexual male population.
According to the researchers, 42.9 percent of homosexual men in Chicago's Shoreland area have had more than 60 sexual partners, while an additional 18.4 percent have had between 31 and 60 partners. All total, 61.3 percent of the area's homosexual men have had more than 30 partners, and 87.8 percent have had more than 15, the research found.

As a result, 55.1 percent of homosexual males in Shoreland -- known as Chicago's "gay center" -- have at least one sexually transmitted disease, researchers said.

The three-year study on the sexual habits of Chicago's citizens will appear in the upcoming book, "The Sexual Organization of The City" (University of Chicago Press), due out this spring.[43][44]


Homosexual Couples and Domestic Violence





A recent study by the Canadian government states that "violence was twice as common among homosexual couples compared with heterosexual couples".
For more information please see: Homosexual Couples and Domestic Violence

Studies report that homosexual couples have significantly higher incidences of violent behavior. For example, a recent study by the Canadian government states that "violence was twice as common among homosexual couples compared with heterosexual couples".[45] According the American College of Pediatricians who cite several studies, "Violence among homosexual partners is two to three times more common than among married heterosexual couples."[46] In addition, the American College of Pediatricians states the following: "Homosexual partnerships are significantly more prone to dissolution than heterosexual marriages with the average homosexual relationship lasting only two to three years."[47]


In June of 2004, the journal Nursing Clinics of North America reported the following regarding homosexuality and domestic violence:

“ Domestic abuse is under-reported in the gay community...
Male-on-male same-sex domestic violence also has been reported in couples where one or both persons are HIV-positive. Intimate partner abuse and violence include humilation, threatening to disclose HIV status, withholding HIV therapy, and harming family members or pets.[48]


Homosexuality and Murders

For more information please see: Homosexuality and Murders

Commonness of Homosexual Murder

Vernon J. Geberth, M.S., M.P.S. who is a former commander of Bronx homicide for the New York City Police Department stated in 1995 concerning homosexuality and murders that homosexual murders are relatively common and these murders may involve male victims murdered by other males or may involve female victims who are in some type of lesbian relationship and they are murdered by another female.[49] In 2005, Dr. Harnam Singh, Dr. Luv Sharma, and Dr. Dhattarwal reported in the Journal of Indian Academy of Forensic Medicine in respect to homosexuality and murders that homosexual murders are quite common and that these murders may involve both sexes either as victims or as assailants.[50]

Homosexual Murders and Brutality

Forensic Journal Articles on Homosexual Murders and Overkill





The eminent pathologist Dr. William Eckert wrote concerning homosexual homicides: "Equally high is the number of homicides, many probably related to transient attachments, which often lead to suspicion, jealousy, and murder. When murder does occur it is exceptionally brutal with an overkill appearance... Overkill, as it is seen in homosexual and lesbian murders, is certainly a form of sadistic crime."
There have been a number of forensic journal articles on the issue of homosexual homicides and overkill.[51][52][53][54][55] In 1996, the forensic journal The American Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology published an article entitled Homicide in homosexual victims: a study of 67 cases from the Broward County, Florida, Medical Examiner's office (1982-1992), with special emphasis on "overkill". The abstract for the journal article states:

“ Forensic pathologists often state that homosexual homicides are more violent than those with heterosexual victims. Overkill or wounding far beyond that required to cause death is a frequently used descriptor of these deaths. We quantified the number and extent of injuries between homosexual and heterosexual homicide victims to determine whether one group suffered more violence than the other...Homosexual homicides are more violent than heterosexual homicides when one compares the mean number of injuries (fatal sharp, blunt, and total)/case and the extent of injuries on the body.[56] ”

Dr. William Eckert on Homosexual Homicides and Overkill

According to the New York Times, Dr. William Eckert was a world-renowned authority in the field of pathology and he worked on major murder cases including the assassination of Senator Robert F. Kennedy and the Charles Manson murders.[57] Dr. Eckert founded the American Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology.[58] [59] According to Time magazine, Dr. Eckert was a pioneer who encouraged collaborative effort between law-enforcement and forensics teams.[60]





The eminent pathologists Bernard Knight and Pekka Saukko stated that it is a fact that some of the most violent homicides seen by pathologists are among male homosexuals.[61]
Dr. Eckert wrote concerning homosexual murders:

“ Equally high is the number of homicides, many probably related to transient attachments, which often lead to suspicion, jealousy, and murder. When murder does occur it is exceptionally brutal with an overkill appearance... Overkill, as it is seen in homosexual and lesbian murders, is certainly a form of sadistic crime. In these instances multiple stabbing and other brutal injuries...are common findings...[62] ”

Additional Source on Homosexual Murders and Overkill

The Encyclopedia of Serial Killers by Michael Newton reports:

“ Homosexual slayers clearly have no monopoly on violence, but it is true that their crimes often display extremes of "overkill" and mutilation... On balance, it seems fair to say that while homosexuals sometimes fall prey to "gay bashing" violence by bigoted "straights," they are far more likely to be murdered by another homosexual than in a random hate crime.[63] ”

The previously cited pathology textbook by Knight and Saukko stated the following: "In addition, quite a number of fatal altercations arise because a heterosexual man becomes violent when importuned by a homosexual."[64]

Homosexuality and bestiality

Prominent homosexual activist and Frank Kameny's comments on bestiality

See also: Homosexuality and bestiality and Atheism and bestiality

Homosexual activist Frank Kameny is a fervent atheist.[65][66]

On Jun 04, 2008, LifeSiteNews wrote:

“ Long-time homosexual activist Frank Kameny’s claim to fame is successfully manipulating the American Psychiatric Association into declassifying homosexuality as a mental disorder, and today the Smithsonian honoree is now busily advocating bestiality "as long as the animal doesn’t mind."
Kameny, 83, has had a long career advocating the removal of any restrictions on human acts long considered by sane societies as obscene, dangerous, and disordered...

Kameny describes his mission as "Americanism in action" by advocating bestiality and encouraging the saturation of American culture with what he calls "more and better and harder-core pornography."

According to Americans for Truth about Homosexuality (AFTAH), Kameny wrote an e-mail to them saying that while he was personally opposed to bestiality, he found it an otherwise "harmless" quirk, so long as it was consensual with the animal involved.

"Bestiality is not my thing," Kameny wrote. "But it seems to be a harmless foible or idiosyncrasy of some people. So, as long as the animal doesn’t mind (and the animal rarely does), I don’t mind, and I don’t see why anyone else should."[67]


Homosexuals March in Madrid Cheering Bestiality

See also: Homosexuality and bestiality

On July 14, 2009, in a story entitled Homosexuals March in Madrid Cheering Bestiality and Demanding “Affective-Sexual Diversity” in School, LifeSiteNews reported concerning a homosexual parade in Spain:

“ "I like dogs, I like apples, in my bed I sleep with whomever I want," was one of the principal chants in the Gay Pride Parade last week in Madrid, where hundreds of thousands marched through the streets to advocate "gay rights" and homosexualist ideology, according to local media reports.[68] ”

Lesbianism





Yvette Cantu Schneider and family
Women who engage in homosexuality are called lesbians (after the ancient Greek island of Lesbos). Recently, the former lesbian activist Charlene Cothran left homosexuality and converted her pro-homosexuality magazine to one that helps homosexuals find freedom and deliverance through faith in Jesus Christ.[69][70] Lesbian activist Yvette Cantu Schneider also became a Christian and left homosexuality.[71] [72]

In 2007, WorldNetDaily published the following regarding a lesbian woman:

“ A 53-year-old university professor and campaigner for legalized same-sex marriage in the UK said she was once a married "happy heterosexual" who had no doubts about her sexual orientation, but political activity and involvement in feminist causes "changed" her into a lesbian.[73] ”

Health Effects of Homosexual Lifestyle

For more information please see: Homosexuality and health and Gay bathhouses

AIDS





Human Immunodeficiency Virus attacking T4 lymphocytes
A review of the history of homosexuality and AIDS, indicates the original spread of AIDS is generally attributed to the aforementioned promiscuity of homosexual men. Originally the syndrome was called the "gay disease" because the overwhelming majority of patients were homosexual men.

In September of 2010, Reuters reported: "Nearly one in five gay and bisexual men in 21 major U.S. cities are infected with HIV, and nearly half of them do not know it".[74] A September 2010 report of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reported : "Gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men (MSM) represent approximately 2% of the US population, yet are the population most severely affected by HIV and are the only risk group in which new HIV infections have been increasing steadily since the early 1990s. In 2006, MSM accounted for more than half (53%) of all new HIV infections in the United States..."[75]

In August of 2009, LifeSiteNews reported: "An official with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) announced the CDC's estimate Monday that in the United States AIDS is fifty times more prevalent among men who have sex with men ('MSM') than the rest of the population."[76] This is a dramatic recent increase. In June of 2004, the journal Nursing Clinics of North America reported that homosexual men and men who have sex with men "are nine times more likely to become infected with HIV than their heterosexual counterparts".[77] Of newly diagnosed HIV infections in the United States during the year 2003, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimated that about 63% were among men who were infected through sexual contact with other men.[78] As of 1998, fifty-four percent of all AIDS cases in the United States were homosexual men, and the CDC stated that nearly ninety percent of these men acquired HIV through sexual activity with other men.[79]

In 2004, Jeffrey D. Klausner, Robert Kohn, and Charlotte Kent reported in the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases the following: "Proctitis, or inflammation of the rectum, is a condition that is not uncommon among men who have sex with men (MSM), and, in HIV-negative men, greatly increases the risk of acquiring HIV infection. With the recent increases in bacterial sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) among MSM in the United States and Europe, there has been a concomitant increase in the number of cases of clinical proctitis."[80] On March 15, 2004 Medscape published an article by John G. Bartlett, M.D. entitled New Look at "Gay Bowel Syndrome" in which they commented on the aforementioned 2004 journal article Etiology of clinical proctitis among men who have sex with men published by JD Klausner and C. Kent in the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases. The article in Medscape stated the following:

“ There were multiple studies of the newly recognized "gay bowel syndrome" in the late 1970s and early 1980s. However, subsequent attention and study has been sparse, in part attributed to reduced frequency thought to reflect changing practices by gay men in response to the HIV epidemic. This study clearly indicates that it is still an issue, since the cases were studied in 2001-2002. Also, the etiology is about the same as previously, although HSV is newly recognized as an important component. This finding not only affects management but also has HIV prevention implications. The authors note that two thirds of the participants were HIV negative and that proctitis increases the risk of HIV by up to 9-fold.[81] ”

Johns Hopkins HIV Guide website has a duplicate of the aforementioned article by John G. Bartlett, M.D. at Medscape which was entitled New Look at "Gay Bowel Syndrome".[82]

In 2004, the prominent medical website, WebMD, stated the following: "Men who have sex with men and women are a "significant bridge for HIV to women," the CDC's new data suggest."[83]

Teenage AIDS and Teenage homosexuality

See: Teenage homosexuality and Teenage AIDS

Homosexuality and MRSA





In 2008, the Annals of Internal Medicine reported that infection with multidrug-resistant USA300 MRSA is common among men who have sex with men, and multidrug-resistant MRSA infection might be sexually transmitted in this population.
In relation to homosexuality and MRSA, on January 15, 2008 the newspaper San Francisco Chronicle had a news article entitled San Francisco gay community an epicenter for new strain of virulent staph.[84] The San Francisco Chronicle news article stated the following in regards to homosexuality and MRSA:

“ A new variety of staph bacteria, highly resistant to antibiotics and possibly transmitted by sexual contact, is spreading among gay men in San Francisco, Boston, New York and Los Angeles, researchers reported Monday.[85] ”

On February 19, 2008 the Annals of Internal Medicine published a study regarding antiobiotic resistant staph infection in relation to men who have sex with men and the abstract for the article states the following in relation to homosexuality and MRSA:

“ Infection with multidrug-resistant USA300 MRSA is common among men who have sex with men, and multidrug-resistant MRSA infection might be sexually transmitted in this population.[86] ”

Homosexuality and Syphilis





A Centers for Disease Control and Prevention analysis suggested that approximately 64 percent of all adult primary and secondary syphilis cases in 2004 were among men who have sex with men.
Syphilis is an infection caused by the bacteria Treponema pallidum. An early publication to propose the link between homosexuality contributing to the spread of sexually transmitted disease was the English publication Proceedings of the Royal Society of Medicine in 1962.[87] The Proceedings of the Royal Society of Medicine made the following statement: "The importance of homosexual practices in the spread of venereal diseases has attracted particular attention recently. It almost seems that these practices are keeping syphilis alive in this country." [88]

The news organization Cybercast News Service reported the following about homosexuality and syphilis:

“ The federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) says homosexual men accounted for 65 percent of the nearly 12,000 cases of syphilis in the United States in 2007, making them the “primary driver” of increased syphilis rates overall.
In a report on sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) issued Tuesday, the government said syphilis, a disease that was almost eliminated as a public health threat less than 10 years ago, is on the rise -- with cases increasing each year since 2000.[89]


Homosexuality and Gonorrhea

In relation to homosexuality and gonorrhea, in 2006, the American Association of Family Physicians reported: "Men who have sex with men (MSM) have high rates of gonococcal infection. In San Francisco, more than one half of these infections occur in MSM, and previous cross-sectional studies have reported a prevalence of up to 15.3 percent in this group."[90]





Gonorrhea is a sexually transmitted disease (STD) caused by the bacterium Neisseria gonorrhoeae.
In 2007, the medical journal Sexually Transmitted Diseases published an article entitled Sexually Transmitted Infections in Western Europe Among HIV-Positive Men Who Have Sex With Men which stated the following regarding homosexuality and gonorrhea:

“ "Since the late 1990s, increases in diagnoses and rates of gonorrhea have been observed across the region, although recently there has been evidence of a levelling off and even a decline in some countries.
In Denmark (1994–1999), gonorrhea incidence was 6 times higher among known HIV-positive MSM [men who have sex with men]... A study in a Parisian clinic showed that at least one-third (30/92) of MSM diagnosed with gonorrhea between January 1999 and May 2001 were HIV-positive... In Sweden, 5.4% (4/74) of gonorrhea cases were in HIV-positive MSM in 2000. By comparison, at sentinel sites in England and Wales, 32% (123/381) of MSM with gonorrhea were HIV-positive in 2004.[91]


Homosexuality and Lymphogranuloma Venereum Outbreaks

Lymphogranuloma venereum is a sexually transmitted disease that mainly infects the lymphatics.[92] According to the recent medical literature, there have been recent outbreaks of lymphogranuloma venereum in Europe and North America and the outbreaks have been limited to the homosexual community.

Homosexuality and Parasites





Throughout the world, high rates of intestinal parasitism are found in men who have sex with men. Concerning the issue of homosexuality and parasites, anal sex can be an important risk factor for intestinal parasitism.[93]
In 2006, the The Medical Journal of Australia reported the following:

“ High rates of intestinal parasitism are found in MSM [men who have sex with men] throughout the world.
Amoebiasis has become endemic in MSM in Japan and causes significant morbidity and mortality; complications such as colitis and liver abscesses occur more frequently in homosexual and bisexual men than in heterosexual men. Similar findings on amoebiasis are reported from Taiwan, with MSM at increased risk for invasive amoebiasis and intestinal colonisation with E. histolytica.[94]


In 2001, The journal Internal Medicine (Tokyo, Japan) published an article entitled Amebiasis in acquired immunodeficiency syndrome in which they stated the following the following:

“ While the overall prevalence of amebiasis is approximately 4% in the United States, certain high-risk groups have a much higher incidence of infection and disease. Prevalence of E. historylitica or E. dispar in the gay population of New York City and San Francisco approached 40-50% . Some Japanese literature also showed homosexual contact was an important risk factor for amebic infection.[95][96] ”

Higher Rates of Syphilis, Gonorrhea, Lymphogranuloma Venereum, and Amebiases Elaborated

Sexually transmitted diseases that cause proctitis include syphilis, gonorrhea, lymphogranuloma venereum, and amebiasis and as noted earlier the homosexual community has significant problems in regards to these illnesses.[97] [98][99] In addition, as mentioned earlier proctitis significant risk factor in respect to HIV infection.[100][101] According to the Mayo Clinic, "proctitis in general mainly affects adult males".[102] Proctitis, syphilis, gonorrhea, lymphogranuloma venereum, and amebiasis are all maladies that are associated with gay bowel syndrome which why John G. Bartlett, M.D. stated at the Johns Hopkins HIV Guide website and at Medscape that gay bowel syndrome is still currently an issue.[103][104]

Homosexuality and Hepatitis





Hepatitis C Virus
For more information please see: Homosexuality and Hepatitis

In relation to homosexuality and hepatitis, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) both Hepatitis A and Hepatitis B disproportionately affects men who have sex with men (MSM).[105][106]

In a 2007 article entitled Advances in the Management of Viral Hepatitis B and Hepatitis C Infection in HIV-Coinfected Patients Vincent V. Soriano, MD, PhD reported in Medscape the following regarding homosexuality and Hepatitis C viral infections:

“ Hepatitis C virus (HCV) has not been thought to be efficiently transmitted through sexual contact. However, recent reports of outbreaks of acute hepatitis C among men who have sex with men (MSM) have changed this view. British researchers examined 7223 MSM who attended a single clinic in Brighton, United Kingdom, since 2000. The study investigators reported that highly risky sexual practices along with multiple sex partners explained the increase in episodes of acute HCV infection in this population.[107] ”

Viral hepatitis is one of the illnesses of gay bowel syndrome.

Homosexuality and Shigellosis





Shigella bacteria cause shigellosis
Men who have sex with men (MSM) appear to have a greater incidences of the malady shigellosis. Shigellosis is a condition associated with gay bowel syndrome.

Peter LaBarbera and His Calls to Shut Down Homosexual Bathhouses

For more information please see: Gay bathhouses

Peter LaBarbera, president of Americans for Truth, stated the following about gay bathhouses:

“ Why isn’t there a concerted government effort — akin to the current anti-smoking campaigns — to reign in homosexual promiscuity – beginning with closing down all sex businesses (bathhouses) that facilitate homosexual perversion? (Of course, we favor closing down straight prostitution businesses as well.) We know that bisexual behavior (men on the “down low”) help spread dangerous diseases to the general population: how many deaths and illnesses have to result from “second-hand sodomy” before authorities take corrective action?[108] ”

Homosexuality and Mental Health





Studies have long indicated that homosexuals have a substantially greater risk of suffering from psychiatric problems (suicide, depression, bulimia, antisocial personality disorder, and substance abuse).[109]
In respect to homosexuality and mental health, studies have long indicated that homosexuals have a substantially greater risk of suffering from psychiatric problems (suicide, depression, bulimia, antisocial personality disorder, and substance abuse).[110]

For example, a national survey of female homosexuals was published in the Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology which found that 75 percent of the approximate 2,000 respondents had pursued psychological counseling of some type, many for treatment of long-term depression or sadness.[111]

In contrast to claims by gay rights activists blaming this heightened incidence of mental issues on discrimination, John R. Diggs, M.D. states the following regarding homosexuality and mental health:

“ An extensive study in the Netherlands undermines the assumption that homophobia is the cause of increased psychiatric illness among gays and lesbians. The Dutch have been considerably more accepting of same-sex relationships than other Western countries — in fact, same-sex couples now have the legal right to marry in the Netherlands. So a high rate of psychiatric disease associated with homosexual behavior in the Netherlands means that the psychiatric disease cannot so easily be attributed to social rejection and homophobia.[112] ”

It Gets Better Project

See also: Atheism and suicide

The It Gets Better project is a misguided liberal project to prevent young homosexuals from committing suicide and it does not encourage young people to become ex-homosexuals. In January of 2012, Vox Day reported that two homosexual males who promoted the It Gets Better project committed suicide. (see also: Mental Health and Homosexuality).[113]

Homosexuality and Cigarette Smoking





The recent medical literature states the homosexual men and lesbians in the United States have significantly higher rates of cigarrete smoking than heterosexuals.
In relation to homosexuality and smoking, the recent medical literature states the homosexual men and lesbians in the United States have significantly higher rates of cigarette smoking than heterosexuals.[114][115]

Homosexuality and Anal Cancer

In June of 2004, the journal Nursing Clinics of North America reported the following regarding homosexuality and anal cancer:

“ One of the more pressing issues for gay men is anal carcinoma. Several recent studies have indicated the rate of anal dysplasia to be increasing in men with and without HIV. Ninety percent of men with HIV have the human papiloma virus (HPV), while 65% of men without HIV have HPV. HVP type 16 is the most troublesome for developing cancer and is found in a significant portion of gay men.[116] ”

In 1997, Concerned Women of America reported the following regarding homosexuality and anal cancer:

“ Homosexual men's practice of anal sex has left many of them victims of anal cancer. One article in the New England Journal of Medicine commented, "Our study lends strong support to the hypothesis that homosexual behavior in men increases the risk of anal cancer: 21 of the 57 men with anal cancer (37 percent) reported that they were homosexual or bisexual, in contrast to only one of 64 controls." The Journal of the American Medical Association also published similar findings: "Epidemiological studies have shown that risk factors for anal cancer include homosexuality, history of receptive anal intercourse, presence of anal condylomata, and smoking." And the International Journal of Cancer stated, "Being single and having practised anal intercourse appears to be associated with anal cancer and case reports have suggested a recent increase in the number of cases of anal cancer." Other studies have yielded the same conclusions.[117] ”

Homosexuality and obesity





Stephen Fry is a homosexual and an atheist.
See also: Homosexuality and obesity and Atheism and obesity

Peter LaBarbera wrote:

“ The National Youth Risk Behavior Surveys are given to high schoolers, and the Centers for Disease Control looked at the data from 2001 to 2009 in the states of Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Vermont, Wisconsin and the cities of Boston, Chicago, Milwaukee, New York City, San Francisco and San Diego, locales where the schools permitted questions about homosexual identity/behavior, which isn’t always the case in less “progressive” areas.
Teens who called themselves “gay, lesbian or bisexual,” or who were unsure, as well as those who didn’t use those labels but had sexual contact only with same-sex people or with both sexes, were found to be more likely than heterosexually identified students to engage in seven out of the 10 risk behavior categories. These were: 1) behaviors that contribute to violence; 2) behaviors related to attempted suicide; 3) tobacco use; 4) alcohol use; 5) other drug use; 6) sexual behaviors; and 7) weight management. (emphasis added)[118]


Peter LaBarbera also wrote: "Anyone who has researched the subject of homosexuality knows that many of the most staunch advocates of homosexuality are those who hold a decidedly secular outlook." (For more information please see: Atheism and obesity).[119]

American Lesbian Women More Than Twice as Likely to Be Obese Than All other Female Sexual Orientation Groups





In April of 2007, the American Journal of Public Health analyzed data from 2002 National Survey of Family Growth and the data suggested that American lesbian women were 2.69 times more likely to be overweight and 2.47 times more likely to be obese than all other female sexual orientation groups. [120]

(photo obtained from Flickr, see license agreement)
For more information please see: Lesbianism and Obesity

In 2013, the National Institutes of Health (NIH) reported that 75% of American lesbians are obese.[121] In addition, in April of 2007 the American Journal of Public Health analyzed data from 2002 National Survey of Family Growth and the data suggested that American lesbian women were 2.69 times more likely to be overweight and 2.47 times more likely to be obese than all other female sexual orientation groups. [122] The abstract for this study indicated that "lesbians are at greater risk for morbidity and mortality linked to overweight and obesity." [123]

In 2009, the PubMed article abstract for the Polish psychiatry journal Psychiatria Polska article Body Image in Homosexual Persons declared:

“ Homosexual women are less concentrated on physical appearance and more satisfied with their bodies while being more tolerant to obesity.... For lesbian women the ideal body image is more massive than for heterosexual women.[124] ”

In 2007, a purported lesbian wrote to Andrew Sullivan, the political commentator and administrator of The Daily Dish blog:

“ And - oh heck, I'll admit it - aesthetics have value, too! As a woman, I may not be as focused on looks as men are predisposed to be, but I sure am tired of seeing so many queer ladies out there who are way past 200 pounds. Way, way past. Sorry, but no amount of "fat acceptance" is going to make that a pleasant sight - gay, straight, butch, femme, male or female.[125] ”

Bible Prohibition Against Homosexuality and Sound Health Practices

Given the many diseases associated with homosexuality, the biblical prohibition against homosexuality is arguably one of the many examples where the Bible exhibited knowledge that was ahead of its time.

Homosexuality and Illegal Drug Use

For more information please see: Homosexuality and Illegal Drug Use and Homosexual activists' ideology and loss of life





In 2007, the Los Angeles Times reported the frequency of methamphetamine use is twenty times greater among homosexuals than in the general population.
In 2007, the Los Angeles Times reported the frequency of methamphetamine use is twenty times greater among homosexuals than in the general population.[126]

In January of 2007, the journal AIDS (London, England) in an article entitled Use of illicit drugs among gay men living with HIV in Sydney stated the following: "Higher rates of illicit drug use have been reported among gay men than among similar populations of heterosexual men..."[127]

In June of 2004, the journal Nursing Clinics of North America reported the following regarding homosexuality and illegal drug use:

“ ...the increased use of recreational or party drugs such as ectasy, "poppers", and methamphetamine ("crystal meth") influence unsafe sexual behaviors in gay men. Many of these illicit drugs are used during "circuit parties," in which gay men from various geographical locales congregrate in one large metropolitan community over an extended 2- or 3-day period for the purposes of intense partying and sexual activity.[128] ”

See also: homosexual circuit parties and disease

Homosexuality and the Suppression of Religious Liberty

For more information please see: Homosexuality and Religious Liberty





The book When the Wicked Seize a City recounts how Pastor Chuck McIlhenny and his church were terrorized by homosexual activists.
There have been a notable number of incidents involving the issue of homosexuality and the suppresion of religious liberty in regards to dissent and the objectionableness of homosexuality.
Dr. Chuck McIlhenny served as pastor of San Francisco's First Orthodox Presbyterian Church for numerous years.[129] In 1978 Dr. McIlhenny co-authored a book which recounted how he was threatened and his church and home firebombed by homosexual activists subsequent to a lawsuit he won regarding the church's right to fire its organist who was homosexual.[130]Dr. McIlhenny's home was firebombed while his family was sleeping inside.[131]
The documentary film A Nation Adrift chronicles some of the events that took place during the Hamilton Square Baptist Church riot in San Francisco in which a angry group of male homosexuals and lesbians vandalized church property, assaulted church members, terrorized church congregates, screamed profanity, threw rocks, harassed and scared children, and disrupted a church service.[132][133] [134][135] See also: Homosexual Public Indecency Tolerated in San Francisco
In 2005, David Parker was arrested and put in handcuffs at his child's school in relation to a lesson promoting homosexuality called the "King & King" being taught to first graders in the Massachusetts school. [136][137] David Parker desired parental rights but the principal at Esterbrook Elementary School in Lexington defended the “King & King” lesson and denied parents the right to be informed about it and to opt their kids out. [138] The "King and King" violated David Parker and his wife's religious beliefs regarding homosexuality.[139] The Massachusetts anti-homosexual agenda organization MassResistance has a webpage devoted to the events surrounding the David Parker issue and the ongoing legal battle associated with the matter.[140]
In 2004, eleven Christians, who have been dubbed the "Philly 11", were arrested at a Philadelphia event promoting homosexual-rights and some of the charges were felonies.[141][142] Among those who were arrested were Arlene Elshinnawy, a 75-year-old grandmother of three, and Linda Beckman, a 70-year-old grandmother of 10 who were arrested for sharing their faith on the public sidewalk.[143] In 2005, after national publicity led to widespread criticism of the arrests (especially the heavy penalties being threatened) a judge dismissed all criminal charges.[144] In 2006, a United States federal judge ruled the group of homosexuals could not dismiss a lawsuit against the homosexual activist group Philly Pride Presents which was brought against them by the Christian protestors.[145]





Hamilton Square Baptist ChurchIn October of 2001, a 69 year old street preacher named Harry Hammond from Bournemouth, England was subjected to assault by an angry crowd of 40 people while he proclaimed his Christian views in the town center which included a call to repentance in respect to homosexuality.[146] Mr. Hammond was arrested, prosecuted and fined but no arrests were made in respect to those who assaulted him.[147] Appeals to overturn the verdict, which included an appeal to the European Court of Human Rights, were dismissed. [148]
WorldNetDaily reported the following regarding the famous St. Patrick's Cathedral Incident involving homosexual and abortion activists:

“ One infamous incident was the assault on New York’s famed St. Patrick's Cathedral on December 10, 1989. While Cardinal John O'Connor presided over the 10:15 Sunday morning Mass, a multitude of "pro-choice" and "gay rights" activists protested angrily outside. Some, wearing gold-colored robes similar to clerical vestments, hoisted a large portrait of a pornographically altered frontal nude portrait of Jesus.[149] ”
The It Gets Better Project is currently a national embarrassment. In 2012, homosexual activist Dan Savage was supposed to deliver an anti-bullying message to high school students. However, as many as 100 students walked out on his speech as he shouted vulgarities about the Bible and mocked Christians. [150] It was reported that Savage engaged in verbal bullying as well. [150]

Roman Catholic Church, Homosexuality, and the Sexual Molestation of Minors

See also: Homosexuality and pederasty

Throughout the 1970s and 1980s, the American Roman Catholic bishops and the Vatican had noted a growing problem with clerical sexual abuse in the U.S.[151] In addition, Ireland and other European countries have experienced problems relating to instances of Roman Catholic priests sexually abusing children.[152]

Catholic League president Bill Donohue declared concerning the scandals of priests molesting minors:

“ The latest attempt to silence me comes from GLAAD (Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation), Call to Action and the Interfaith Alliance. The three left-wing organizations have joined hands demanding that the media "ignore Bill Donohue." Their complaint? My telling the truth about the role homosexual priests have played in the abuse scandal.
The data collected by John Jay College of Criminal Justice show that between 1950 and 2002, 81 percent of the victims were male and 75 percent of them were post-pubescent. In other words, three out of every four victims have been abused by homosexuals. By the way, puberty, according to the American Academy of Pediatrics, begins at age 10 for boys.

No problem can be remedied without an accurate diagnosis. And any accurate diagnosis that does not finger the role that homosexuals have played in molesting minors is intellectually dishonest. The cover-up must end. And so must attempts to muzzle my voice. Everything I am saying is what most people already know, but are afraid to say it. It's time for some straight talk.[153]


Bill Donahue published in the New York Times:

“ The Times continues to editorialize about the "pedophilia crisis", when all along it's been a homosexual crisis. Eighty percent of the victims of priestly sexual abuse are male and most of them are post-pubescent. While homosexuality does not cause predatory behavior, and most gay priests are not molesters, most of the molesters have been gay.[154] ”

HIV Infected Adolescents and Young Adults in America and Infection by Older Men

For related information please see: Teenager Homosexuality and Homosexuality and pederasty





Stylized rendering of a cross-section of the Human Immunodeficiency Virus
In 2006, the noted pediatric journal entitled Journal of Adolescent Health published a position paper entitled HIV infection and AIDS in adolescents: An update of the position of the Society for Adolescent Medicine. [155] The aforementioned 2006 position paper of the Journal of Adolescent Health stated the following: "Among adolescents and young adults with HIV or AIDS, most infections are acquired by having sex with HIV-infected men."[156] In addition, the Journal of Adolecent Health stated the following:

“ As of December 31, 2003, almost 38,500 cases of AIDS had been reported in adolescents and young adults 13–24 years old in the United States of America. Previous studies demonstrating that the risk of AIDS increased with the age at infection suggest that a large proportion of people developing AIDS in their third decade of life became infected with HIV as teens.[157] ”

Medical Community Negligence and Government Negligence

Please see: Teenage AIDS and Homosexuality and pederasty

Homosexuality and Older Homosexuals Preying on Vulnerable Youth

See also: Homosexuality and pederasty

The pro-homosexuality publication The Advocate in 1992 made the following admission in regards to homosexuality and HIV infection in American youth:

“ Gay boys and straight girls who are having sex for money, shelter, love - they are at risk. And our community, the gay and lesbian community - and I particularly fault gay men here - has done nothing to try to help our youth. Gay men view these boys as recreational toys to be used. I have heard many stories of HIV-positive men having unprotected sex with boys. They don’t think it matters.[158] ”

In 1991, the medical researcher Kruks reported the following in the Journal of Adolescent Health regarding homosexuality and HIV infection among youth:

“ Gay male street youth, as well as nonlesbian female street youths, seem to be particularly vulnerable for emotional as well as sexual exploitation...
These relationships are often extremely damaging for a number of reasons. The "sugar daddy" usually presents himself to the youth in a loving caretaker role. For a street youth who has a past history of rejection and/or abuse, the promise of being loved and cared for is a compelling one. However, these relationships in many ways have similar dynamics to incest.

Many gay youths coming to YSD [Youth Services Dept. of Los Angeles Gay and Lesbian Community Service Center] for services have long histories of being involved in a succession of "sugar daddy" relationships. Each of these is a cycle of falling in love, believing that life will now be wonderful forever and that this older adult truly loves the young person, discovering that in fact it is just sex that the adult wants, feeling the impact of one more betrayal, and ending up on the streets again. The whole cycle last an average of 1-2 months, and the youth often becomes extremely suicidal at the end of each cycle.[159][160]


In 1995, the medical journal Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine stated the following:

“ Another group at high risk for HIV infection is young men reporting sex with other men....Many young gay men tested in homeless youth centers reproted exchanging money or drugs for sex, which may place them at high risk for HIV infection. Young men who are homeless or runaways who barter for sex with same-sex partners may not consider themselves gay and thus may beyond the reach of prevention messages targeting the gay community.[161] ”

Homosexuality and Pedophilia - Journal of Homosexuality, International Lesbian and Gay Federation (ILGA) and NAMBLA

see also: Homosexuality and pederasty

There are notable instances of prominent homosexual organizations being permissive towards pedophilia or condoning/promoting pedophilia. For example, the Journal of Homosexuality is a academic journal which has featured material that looks upon pedophilia in a generally approvingly manner.[162][163] For example, an article by Dr. Brongersma stated that parents should not view a pedophile "as a rival or competitor, not as a thief of their property, but as a partner in the boy's upbringing, someone to be welcomed into their home..."[164]

The International Lesbian and Gay Association was founded in 1978 and is a world-wide network of national and local homosexual groups has more than 620 member organizations.[165] In 1993 the ILGA obtained consultative status on the UN Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC) but in 1994 they lost their status due to groups within their membership, most notably the North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) and Vereniging MARTIJN, advocating pedophilia or expressing solidarity with pro-pedophilia groups.[166] ILGA expelled the groups associated with pedophilia but they were denied ECOSOC decided against restoring ILGA’s consultative status in 2002 and once again in January 2006.[167] NAMBLA had been a member of the ILGA for a decade before it was expelled by the ILGA. NAMBLA calls itself a homosexual organization.





Many consider Harry Hay to be the founder of the American homosexual movement.
Homosexuality and Pedophilia - Other Ties of NAMBLA to the Homosexual Community

See also: Homosexuality and pederasty

Steve Baldwin published the following in the Regent University Law Review regarding homosexuality and pedophilia:

“ Indeed, some NAMBLA chapters meet at mainstream gay centers such as Philadelphia’s Gay and Lesbian Community Center. NAMBLA’s meetings and conferences always feature mainstream gay leaders and speakers. For example, Don Kilhefner, of the Los Angeles Gay Community Service Center, gave a speech to Los Angeles NAMBLA members on the subject of "The Significance of Man/Boy Love in the Gay Community.
The most comprehensive gay networking website, the Queer Resource Directory ....links every gay group in the country including NAMBLA and other homosexual groups that focus on youth. NAMBLA marches in gay pride parades with the consent of the gay leadership. Many of the homosexual movement’s most prominent leaders endorse NAMBLA and its goals. Gay authors and leaders such as Allen Ginsberg, Gayle Rubin, Larry Kramer (founder of ACT-UP), Pat Califia, Jane Rule, Michael Kearns, and Michel Foucault have all written in favor of either NAMBLA or man-boy relationships. Harry Hay, whom many consider the founder of the American homosexual movement, invited NAMBLA members to march with him in the 1993 "March on Washington" gay rights parade. He also marched in the 1986 Los Angeles gay parade wearing a shirt emblazoned with the words "NAMBLA walks with me."

Leading mainstream homosexual newspapers and magazines such as the Advocate, Edge, Metroline, The Guide, and The San Francisco Sentinel have not only published pro-NAMBLA articles and columns but also many have editorialized in favor of NAMBLA and sex with children.[168]


Atheism, homosexuality, pederasty and NAMBLA

see also: Atheism, pederasty and NAMBLA and Homosexuality and pederasty

Some of the well known atheist advocates of the North American Man-Boy Love Association are:

1. The atheist and homosexual David Thorstad was a founding member of the North American Man-Boy Love Association (NAMBLA).[169]

2. Harry Hay (1912 - 2002) was an liberal advocate of statutory rape and the widely acknowledged founder and progenitor of the activist homosexual agenda in the United States. Hay joined the Communist Party of th
tl;dr
 Originally Posted By: Captain Sammitch
tl;dr

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Too_long;_didn't_read


I deliberately made that long post to emphasize the amount of factual counter-argument there is to the notion that homosexuality is "just another alternative lifestyle".
And to the notion that gays should not only have rights as a protected minority, but rights to the suppression of the rights of religious and social conservatives.

The above quoted link is a manifestation of the amount of EVIDENCE that M E M and his minions would like to suppress, in their holy war on truth.

The point is, the information is there, for those who have eyes to see it.
 Originally Posted By: Wondy
ridiculously long shit no one will read


Someone's compensating for something.
I think he was trying to bury this post he made this morning.

 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
It's a case of treating others like you want to be treated. If you want to say things that offend other people sometimes people will let you know their offended.



In other words, you think gays have a right to free speech, but Christians and others who as a scriptural fact of their religious faith think homosexuality is immoral, are not entitled to the same free speech and should be silenced.

Frankly, when gays express this attitude, they really deserve to be beaten up and killed.
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Holyfield wasn't discriminated against


Threats of being fired were held over his head for the sake of his personal views.

 Quote:
nor did Lizzman say anything that disparaged a group of people.


Nor, for that matter, did Holyfield. He didn't use any derogatory language or express a hate-fueled morality.
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
I think he was trying to bury this post he made this morning.

 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
It's a case of treating others like you want to be treated. If you want to say things that offend other people sometimes people will let you know their offended.



In other words, you think gays have a right to free speech, but Christians and others who as a scriptural fact of their religious faith think homosexuality is immoral, are not entitled to the same free speech and should be silenced.

Frankly, when gays express this attitude, they really deserve to be beaten up and killed.




Question: would you fight to the death for your right to free speech?
Advocating violence and death because you don't like something somebody said isn't about defending free speech.
 Originally Posted By: the G-man
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
This gets back to what I was saying about the work place. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from repercussions of what you say.


So you support the Vikings firing Chris Kluwe for supporting gay marriage?


Do you really see that as comparable to what happened in the Celebrity Big Brother house?
What makes that team's prerogative any different from the people who run Big Brother?

 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Advocating violence and death because you don't like something somebody said isn't about defending free speech.


But the initiation of violence depends upon the suppression of free speech (by homosexuals) as a condition.
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
 Originally Posted By: the G-man
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
This gets back to what I was saying about the work place. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from repercussions of what you say.


So you support the Vikings firing Chris Kluwe for supporting gay marriage?


Do you really see that as comparable to what happened in the Celebrity Big Brother house?


You are the one arguing that "Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from repercussions of what you say". That broad statement would seem to apply to both pro- and anti- gay views.

Conversely, if you hold that position only when someone expresses anti-gay views (and not pro-gay) views than you are actually arguing that "freedom of speech is dependent upon content." That flies in the face of the whole point of having freedom of speech, to wet, that both popular and unpopular speech should be protected so that the tyranny of the majority cannot stifle potentially valuable ideas from the minority.

And if you were to actually feel that way, then you should recall that even 20 years ago gay rights viewpoints were often unpopular and, therefore, you are arguing they should have been suppressed.
You'll note that I didn't complain about that case. I didn't honestly think it was comparable because for starters we don't know for certain why he was let go.

You, WB & Pariah however however have in these others. You seem to want it both ways apparently. Different freedoms depending on sexual orientation? WB even advocates violence and death if somebody gay says there offended.

I'm sure you recognize the rights a company has G-man. Are you advocating changes should be made?
First off, I've never been violent toward gays, or advocated violence. I've never even discriminated against gays, or avoided interaction with them. In fact I've often had lunch and socialized with gays, while in school, and at multiple jobs.

But I do think that (as I've said many times before in these gay topics) if someone is passionately Christian or otherwise a religious conservative, and feels that homosexuality is immoral, they should have the right not to hire and/or associate with a homosexual who ideologically opposes and politically undermines their beliefs.
There are a hundred other jobs where a gay person could work instead.
There are a hundred other photography studios that could photograph their gay wedding, rather than forcing a Christian one to do it against their will at threat of being fined out of business.

You continually fail to understand how deeply offensive it is that gays force their lifestyle in the faces of people who will never accept it.

Conservatives/Christians allow gays to live their lifestyle, and are content to just voice their dissenting counter-perspective to the pro-gay POV, in an honest dialogue.

You advocate silencing all non-pro-gay dissent.

I don't advocate beating up or killing gay people, but I make clear that if you continually suppress and legally ram homosexuality down the throats of conservatives, trampling on their religious beliefs and freedoms to practice what they believe, that deprived of free speech, IF violence occurs against gays, they will have no one to blame but themselves IF violence is unleashed on gays as a result of their own aggressive tactics.

Tolerance and free speech are a two-way street, but gays (and the broader social Marxist Left they are a part of) are utterly intolerant of any views that dissent from their own.
 Originally Posted By: Im Not Mister Mxyzptlk
 Originally Posted By: Wondy
ridiculously long shit no one will read


Someone's compensating for something.



 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Captain Sammitch
tl;dr

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Too_long;_didn't_read


I deliberately made that long post to emphasize the amount of factual counter-argument there is to the notion that homosexuality is "just another alternative lifestyle".
And to the notion that gays should not only have rights as a protected minority, but rights to the suppression of the rights of religious and social conservatives.

The above quoted link is a manifestation of the amount of EVIDENCE that M E M and his minions would like to suppress, in their holy war on truth.

The point is, the information is there, for those who have eyes to see it.
You realize I could post pages of stuff that nobody would read too.
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
First off, I've never been violent toward gays, or advocated violence.


 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy

Frankly, when gays express this attitude, they really deserve to be beaten up and killed.


I'll let this drop but don't try to say you've never advocated violence right after advocating violence and death. Your own hateful words defeat you.
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
You realize I could post pages of stuff that nobody would read too.


kamphausened!
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
You realize I could post pages of stuff that nobody would read too.


Could?
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
I don't think there will be any deal cutting at this point [with 'Duck Dynasty' star Phil Robertson, for talking about anuses and vaginas in a magazine interview, not on the aired tv series]. How many sponsors want to chance more anus/vagina interviews after this?


Whoopi Goldberg [on air, during 'The View'] to Planned Parenthood Foes - "Get Out of My Vagina!"



No double-standard, none at all...


By the way, Whoopie Goldberg wasn't fired, wasn't suspended, wasn't even admonished.




© RKMBs