RKMBs
Posted By: the G-man Missing Link Found - 2009-05-19 5:43 PM
47-MILLION-YEAR-OLD FOSSIL TOUTED AS 'MISSING LINK'
  • Scientists have unveiled a 47-million-year-old fossiliZed skeleton of a monkey hailed as the missing link in human evolution.

    This 95-percent-complete 'lemur monkey' is described as the "eighth wonder of the world"

    The search for a direct connection between humans and the rest of the animal kingdom has taken 200 years - but it was presented to the world today at a special news conference in New York.

    The discovery of the 95%-complete 'lemur monkey' - dubbed Ida - is described by experts as the "eighth wonder of the world".

    They say its impact on the world of palaeontology will be "somewhat like an asteroid falling down to Earth".

    Researchers say proof of this transitional species finally confirms Charles Darwin's theory of evolution, and the then radical, outlandish ideas he came up with during his time aboard the Beagle.
Posted By: rex Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-19 6:16 PM
again?
Posted By: the G-man Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-19 6:59 PM
Good point. I forgot about this one.
Posted By: rex Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-19 7:19 PM
That's clever.
Posted By: Stupid Doog Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-19 7:51 PM
Give it a year or two. Then they'll release a "Nope, sorry. It's just another damn monkey" news report that'll only be seen by 4 people.
Posted By: rex Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-19 7:52 PM
again
Posted By: K-nutreturns Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-20 12:42 AM
 Originally Posted By: Stupid Doog
Give it a year or two. Then they'll release a "Nope, sorry. It's just another damn monkey" news report that'll only be seen by 4 people.
Posted By: allan1 Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-20 2:28 AM
huh....I figured this was a Land of the Lost joke that would turn into something Snarf related.
Posted By: rex Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-20 2:54 AM
No, to be the missing link he would have had to procreate with something.
Posted By: iggy Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-20 3:00 AM
\:lol\:
Posted By: Lothar of The Hill People Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-20 5:20 AM

 Originally Posted By: the G-man of Zur-En-Arrh
Good point. I forgot about this one.
It's a little creepy that G-man keeps Rex picture handy so he can look at it whenever he wants to.
Posted By: rex Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-20 5:27 AM
I think everything he does is creepy. Especially fisting underage boys.
Posted By: thedoctor Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-20 6:51 AM
 Originally Posted By: allan1
huh....I figured this was a Land of the Lost joke that would turn into something Snarf related.


Nope. Most people associate ape-like creatures with a lot of hair. Just wouldn't have worked.
Posted By: Pariah Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-20 10:23 AM
So because a monkey existed 50 million years ago, that proves humans are related to it?

Specious much?
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-21 5:09 AM
the religion of science grasps at another straw....
Posted By: Juche Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-21 1:48 PM
 Originally Posted By: Pariah
So because a monkey existed 50 million years ago, that proves humans are related to it?

Specious much?


Apparently it isn't just a monkey
Posted By: Juche Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-21 1:55 PM
 Originally Posted By: the G-man of Zur-En-Arrh
47-MILLION-YEAR-OLD FOSSIL TOUTED AS 'MISSING LINK'
  • Scientists have unveiled a 47-million-year-old fossiliZed skeleton of a monkey hailed as the missing link in human evolution.

    This 95-percent-complete 'lemur monkey' is described as the "eighth wonder of the world"

    The search for a direct connection between humans and the rest of the animal kingdom has taken 200 years - but it was presented to the world today at a special news conference in New York.

    The discovery of the 95%-complete 'lemur monkey' - dubbed Ida - is described by experts as the "eighth wonder of the world".

    They say its impact on the world of palaeontology will be "somewhat like an asteroid falling down to Earth".

    Researchers say proof of this transitional species finally confirms Charles Darwin's theory of evolution, and the then radical, outlandish ideas he came up with during his time aboard the Beagle.


I don't see what humans have to do with this. If anything, it's the missing link between mammals and primates. It's 47 million years old, before primates even existed. Humans evolved from primates in the last few million years.
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-21 6:03 PM
What happens when they change the textbooks, does your belief change?
Posted By: Nöwheremän Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-21 6:13 PM
 Originally Posted By: rex
No, to be the missing link he would have had to procreate with something.

Plus, the missing link would have had hair and would have at least had to have resembled a human!
Posted By: Nöwheremän Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-21 6:15 PM
I would also say, the fact this lemur monkey was 95% complete, makes it a lot more successful than Snarf as well.
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-21 6:33 PM
\:lol\:
Posted By: iggy Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-21 8:49 PM
\:lol\: \:lol\:
Posted By: Stupid Doog Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-22 12:34 AM
\:lol\: \:lol\: \:lol\:
Posted By: Pariah Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-22 12:36 AM
 Originally Posted By: Juche
Apparently it isn't just a monkey


Apparently there's nothing to show that it isn't a monkey because it has no characteristics that make it not a monkey. Otherwise, they wouldn't have been calling it a "monkey." The point here is that they're hopeful about being able to call it something else when they're finished looking at it.
Posted By: Pariah Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-22 12:40 AM
 Originally Posted By: Juche
Humans evolved from primates in the last few million years.


Uh, yeah. No.

You probably graduated from high school around the early 90s because that's when evolutionary scientists were still clinging to the idea that since apes have a 97% similarity in DNA strain, that meant that we were related through primates when, in reality, they had no idea what it meant.

In which case, they later found out that apes had too many base letter discrepancies to truly be related to us. So they had to scrap the popular idea.
Posted By: Im Not Mister Mxyzptlk Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-22 7:29 AM
4.how come we cant speak monkey
Posted By: Chant Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-22 1:41 PM
 Originally Posted By: Pariah
 Originally Posted By: Juche
Humans evolved from primates in the last few million years.


Uh, yeah. No.

You probably graduated from high school around the early 90s because that's when evolutionary scientists were still clinging to the idea that since apes have a 97% similarity in DNA strain, that meant that we were related through primates when, in reality, they had no idea what it meant.

In which case, they later found out that apes had too many base letter discrepancies to truly be related to us. So they had to scrap the popular idea.


please provide a source for that claim or it didn't happen.

Oh, and the fact that this find has been called the missing link is just ridiculous. The media hype around this is just another example of people not understanding shit about science.
Posted By: Nöwheremän Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-22 2:46 PM
 Originally Posted By: Im Not Mister Mxyzptlk
4.how come we cant speak monkey

Some people here do.
Posted By: Juche Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-22 3:13 PM
 Originally Posted By: Pariah
 Originally Posted By: Juche
Apparently it isn't just a monkey


Apparently there's nothing to show that it isn't a monkey because it has no characteristics that make it not a monkey. Otherwise, they wouldn't have been calling it a "monkey." The point here is that they're hopeful about being able to call it something else when they're finished looking at it.


What? It is a primate, just in a very early stage. It's still in the process of evolving from other mammals.


 Quote:
Uh, yeah. No.

You probably graduated from high school around the early 90s because that's when evolutionary scientists were still clinging to the idea that since apes have a 97% similarity in DNA strain, that meant that we were related through primates when, in reality, they had no idea what it meant.

In which case, they later found out that apes had too many base letter discrepancies to truly be related to us. So they had to scrap the popular idea.


Oh dear. What do you think then? And please tell me you're not a creationist or something. \:lol\:
Posted By: Im Not Mister Mxyzptlk Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-22 10:12 PM
Oh boy. I'm making some pop corn. Anybody want some?
Posted By: Glacier16 Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-22 10:14 PM
Posted By: Pariah Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-22 10:41 PM
 Originally Posted By: Chant
please provide a source for that claim or it didn't happen.


This makes you sound gayer than usual. "Pics or it didn't happen!"

 Quote:
Warning, Spoiler:
There is no such thing as an ‘unbiased’ scientist. Everyone has a belief system. Therefore provable scientific facts are usually interpreted according to the researcher’s expectation. Since education systems and media are both mostly evolutionist in outlook, the majority of people, from a very early age, are influenced to the belief that evolution is proven science and factual. The creationist’s position is that evolution is an interpretation of scientific facts that are capable of being interpreted in a very different way.

Evolution requires two observations in order to be ‘scientifically proven:’

1. A living organism emerging from inanimate matter;
2. Transitional forms demonstrating new DNA coding in their genome for a physical feature not previously seen in their species.

1. The smallest viable organism, capable of independent life and reproduction, is extremely complex. “The smallest known genome for a free-living organism, a bacterium, contains about 600,000 DNA base pairs,” says ‘The Human Genome Project Web Site.’ Therefore the creationist believes it is absolutely impossible for any random event to produce life from inanimate matter, even if it were possible to have a ‘primordial soup’ mixture containing all the necessary ingredients, covering the earth for billions of years. But no physical evidence of such ‘soup’ has ever been found in the geological record. The emergence of a living cell from inanimate matter has never been observed, either ‘naturally’ or in a laboratory. No evolutionary scientist has been able to produce a viable theory of how it could take place. Therefore for the evolutionist to believe it happened, he must believe it by faith, because the event has never been scientifically demonstrated.

2. To date no-one has produced any transitional form that indisputably is at a part-way stage of developing any feature novel to its species. The evolutionist’s position is only maintained by displaying some of the large number of evidences for natural selection, and labeling them ‘evolution.’

But ‘natural selection’ and ‘evolution’ are antonyms, not synonyms, as can be seen from the following definitions.
bullet Natural Selection: creatures with physical features enabling them to survive best are most able to live long enough to produce children. So the information in the DNA which creates ‘good’ features is passed on by those better able to survive, while those with ‘less good’ physical features are more likely to die out and the ‘poorer’ DNA information disappear. Therefore, the only change natural selection can make is to reduce DNA information in the new ‘branch’ of a species, or at best, shuffle it around: it can never increase it. Most examples of ‘evolution’ are, in reality, natural selection: Darwin’s Galapagos finches come into this category. To present natural selection as evidence for evolution is like presenting a video of balls rolling downhill as evidence that unpropelled balls can roll uphill!
bullet Evolution: for a new species to evolve, new information must appear in the DNA in order to create new physical features. So evolution is the opposite of natural selection, because it requires an increase in DNA information, where natural selection normally reduces it.
bullet Mutation: this is the only mechanism ever observed that can create new DNA information. It is a mistake made in copying the DNA when a cell divides in order to produce two in place of one. For clarity, we will define two different types of mutation:
bullet Negative Mutation: because the mistake in copying DNA is always random, the result is that the original genetic information is degraded – in the same way that random change to a computer program will always impair its function. This then, depending on the bit of information that has been altered, will usually be seen as damage to some physical characteristic. Every example of ‘evolution’ produced thus far, that is not natural selection, has been negative mutation.
bullet Positive Mutation: this would be a mistake in copying DNA resulting in new genetic information, which produces some kind of physical feature not previously seen in a species, or at least a step towards it. However, it remains in the realm of speculation, since there is no specimen anywhere in the world, either living or dead (i.e. fossilized) that undeniably demonstrates it ever occurring!

So the creationist’s position is that since the two essential elements of evolution have never been observed or demonstrated (in other words, scientific evidence), it takes an act of faith to believe it is the cause of everything we see around us. The evolutionist’s argument “It must have happened because we are here: we wouldn’t exist if it hadn’t taken place” is not logical. The fact that we are here simply demonstrates that we had a beginning; it does not prove what form that beginning took. Actually, what is meant is: “It must have happened because we are here and I don’t believe in the existence of a Creator-God: we wouldn’t exist if it hadn’t taken place.” Of course the extra bit is not verbalized because that blows their cover and shows the argument is based on religious faith (the religious belief that God does not exist) rather than science.

If the theory of evolution were true, then the fossil record would reveal literally billions of transitional forms. The fact that there have been so many fraudulent or mistaken claims on this front demonstrates how desperate the evolutionists are to produce even one!
But nothing proves the impossibility for transitional forms more than the supposed evolution of Homo sapiens from their common ancestor with apes.

We are told that up to 98.7% of human DNA is identical to apes’ DNA. Various sites on the Internet report between 98% and 98.7%, so the smallest possible difference between apes and humans is 1.3%. To avoid exaggeration we will assume just 1% difference, which is 23% less than the smallest figure accepted by biologists. Evolutionists believe that apes and humans probably divided from their common ancestor around 4 million years ago and the first Homo sapiens appeared around 200 thousand years ago. Therefore the process took about 3.8 million years, although as we shall see, the time period is hardly relevant. According to ‘The Human Genome Project’ web site the human DNA contains 3,164,700,000 (over 3 billion) base pairs of ‘letters.’ If we assume that half of the present difference between apes and humans took place in each species (so 0.5%), then 15,823,500 DNA base pairs had to evolve in each species in 3.8 million years.

If we take the wildly overoptimistic view that on average all generations appeared every 12 years, and that there was a positive mutation every ten generations, then that requires about 500 (499.6894737 to be accurate) base pairs to mutate in every one of the possible 31,667 (actually, 31,666.66667) mutations. That creates very serious problems for the evolutionist.

The method of cell duplication in all living things is so accurate that the likelihood of getting a random mistake of as many as 500 base pairs in any one mutation is virtually nil. However, even if it did take place, there are protein ‘machines’ in every cell, which are dedicated to monitoring the duplication process and correcting mistakes. Should a mistake of this magnitude take place, then it is virtually impossible for it to be overlooked by them. But even if it were, at conception every male chromosome is matched in fine detail to its equivalent female chromosome, and if there is any element that does not make a perfect match, the conception is aborted. So a mutation as large as this could not possibly be passed on to the next generation. The writer calls this three-fold safety net (1: accurate duplication in cell division; 2: mistake trapping; 3: accurate duplication in conception) ‘The Triple Whammy!’

Warning, Spoiler:
All that being the case, the likelihood of getting such a large surviving mutation just once is most unlikely: to get it 31,667 times is cloud-cuckoo land! Furthermore, natural selection requires enough improvement from the original form to enable the mutant to survive at least as well, if not better, than its predecessor. There could not possibly be 31,667 improvements between the common ancestor and man, so it is clearly not possible to assume more mutations than these calculations allow for in order to reduce the number of base pairs needing to change. On the other hand, assuming fewer mutations, in order to produce a viable number of improvements, increases the size of the mutations and makes it even more impossible that they could avoid ‘The Triple Whammy.’

Additionally, with such a large number of transitional forms necessary, it is clear that transitional fossils would massively outnumber ‘complete’ ones. The excuse of punctuated equilibrium for their absence (transitional forms appear and disappear too quickly for fossils to form) is exposed as ridiculous: that reduces the possible number of mutations by a huge amount, therefore increases their size and impossibility accordingly. Indeed, with such large numbers of transitional forms required between all species, the chances of getting any period in time when no transitional forms were alive on earth are extremely remote. Yet no-one can presently identify a single living specimen on earth. What a coincidence that at the time there is someone around to examine them, they do not happen to be present! What a coincidence that every time fossils were formed throughout history, there were no transitional species present to be fossilized!

Sickle-cell anemia is the result of just one single letter change in the DNA (for example). So the chance of having 31,667 mutations of 500 letters without significant damage to the mutants in any of them is zero.

Mutation is a random accident in copying DNA. As there are four different DNA ‘letters’ there are four alternatives for a single ‘letter’ mutation, multiplied by 4 for every additional letter. So the number of possible combinations of 500 letters (4 multiplied by itself 500 times) is approximately 10300 (1 followed by 300 zeros). That being the case, with odds of 1 to 10300 against producing the right combination of 500 ‘letters,’ it is totally impossible for a random mutation to succeed even once, let alone 31,667 times. The fact that there are 31,667 possible viable combinations at the beginning of the process simply reduces the odds down to about 1 to 10295 and makes no significant difference. The size of this problem is demonstrated by the fact that it has been estimated there are ‘only’ about 1075 atoms in the entire universe at most.

Bearing in mind the fact that in these calculations we considerably underestimated the amount of change required, all this demonstrates that even to move the comparatively small amount from the common ancestor to modern ape and man is totally impossible: there is absolutely no way to produce the necessary change of 15,823,500 DNA base pairs in the required time period. So to progress from a single cell to all the millions of life-forms we see on the earth, even in billions of years, simply does not stand up to logical scrutiny. Evolutionary changes between some species would require a change of 20% or more, not merely 1%!

But it can be seen that the time period really is irrelevant. However long is allowed there are still only two alternatives: either more transitional forms, by orders of magnitude, than natural selection could preserve; or larger mutations, by orders of magnitude, than could possibly appear and survive through natural, random processes. There is no other option.

That is not the end of the problems, however. We have assumed that 0.5% of the common ancestor’s DNA needed to mutate in our branch to produce humankind. To make this point easier to explain, let us number the letter pairs in our DNA, with pair number 1 at one end and pair number 3,164,700,000 at the other. Let us assume the 0.5% of DNA that needed to mutate in order to produce Homo sapiens is at the beginning of the DNA thread. 1 That means letter pair numbers 1 to 15,823,500 all had to change, while 15,823,501 to 3,164,700,000 had to remain totally unchanged. Now remember that mutation is a random accident in copying DNA. But every time there was a mutation, even though the entire DNA was equally vulnerable to change, it only ever took place in letter numbers 1 to 15,823,500. The likelihood of that taking place at the first mutation is 1 to 199.

Think of Scrabble tiles. Take 200 tiles and instead of letters, number them from 1 to 200. Put them in a bag and shake it up. Take one tile out at random. It must be tile number 1. Put it back and repeat the process. It still must be number 1. Continue doing that 31,667 times. Every time it must be tile number 1 you withdraw. That is what is required for random mutation to change the right bit of DNA in order to produce humans from the sub human ancestor! It is like throwing 31,667 darts at a dartboard while blindfolded, and expecting every one to land in the bull’s eye!

But even worse, the ‘target’ letters decrease in number after each mutation. So assuming the impossible did happen, by the time you reach the final mutation, out of the 3,164,700,000 DNA letters, only the final 500 must change: not only have all the ‘correct’ letters to remain unchanged throughout the whole process, but all the previously mutated letters must also remain unchanged thereafter. The chance of random mutation changing the right 500 at that last mutation is 6,329,400 to 1. This means that on average, throughout the whole process, every time there is a mutation, the chance of it affecting the right letters is 3,164,800 to 1. So to be accurate, instead of randomly finding tile number 1 from 200 Scrabble tiles, we need to do it from 3 million! Statistically, only one in three million mutations will hit the right spot, and when it does there are 10300 wrong possibilities against just 1 correct one in order to get the right combination of letters. When that takes place, it is just 1 of 31,667 times it needs to do so!

It would be no good evolutionists saying that any part of the DNA could mutate and we are simply observing the 0.5% that did so. Each ‘letter’ of DNA is specific to a different aspect of our being, 2 so the only parts that could have changed are specifically those that are now seen as different. Mutation in any other area would produce damage, which, most likely, would either be fatal or severely debilitating. Nor could they claim that mutations took place across the entire DNA but only those in the correct area were preserved by natural selection. That would mean on average there would be 3 million mutations in the ‘wrong’ area for every one in the ‘correct’ area. With the massive amount of mutation required there simply would not be time for that in the few million years it is assumed the entire process took. Remember, we are calculating on just 1% difference between man and ape, which is much less than any biologist would accept to be the case: these figures are considerably underestimating the size of the problem!

So for sub human to evolve into fully human, not only are there massive odds against mutation producing the correct letters many thousands of times over, there are also huge odds against each mutation taking place on the correct part of DNA code. After all that, there is the ‘Triple Whammy’ to prevent mutation happening and being passed on in the first place! If evolutionists try to claim that there are many possible valid mutations and we are simply observing the ones that happened to occur, then that too is hopeless: even if there were 1 billion possible different, healthy, viable species between common ancestor, ape and man, that would only reduce the number of 10300 down to 10291, so the effect of increasing the possibility of evolution by this argument is negligible.

There is one other difficulty: research indicates that a mutation greater than 3 ‘letters’ is always fatal. 3 In that case, at the very least, 5,274,500 positive mutations would have to take place in order to produce the amount of change necessary. So taking our original scenario of 12-year generations and a positive mutation in every tenth one, then at the very least it would take over 630 million years (actually 632,940,000) to complete the process of producing man from the common ancestor. Even if all generations were only 5 years (i.e. all births at five years old), and there was a positive mutation in every generation (absolutely impossible), then it would still take over 26 million years. At that rate of change, all of the earth’s life forms evolving from a single cell in the primordial soup would take many times longer than the assumed age of the universe!

Stephen Hawkins says, “…you can disprove a theory by finding even a single observation that disagrees with the predictions of the theory” (A Brief History of Time, page 11). For decades evolutionists have been accusing creationists of maintaining a position of faith contrary to the evidence of science. Now the boot is on the other foot. Plain and simple scientific observation of genetics demonstrates that the appearance of man from a common ancestor with apes is totally impossible. According to Stephen Hawkins that is evidence enough to demolish the entire edifice of evolutionary theory.

What about the fossil record? Doesn’t that prove evolution? Certainly not! There are no unambiguously transitional forms found in the fossil record. The creationist would point out that all the record shows is the order in which these creatures were buried. That order is consistent with a world-wide flood followed by millennia of localized disasters such as volcanoes, floods, tsunamis, hurricanes, earthquakes, etc.

The various radiometric dating methods of the rocks are dependent on assumptions based on the requirements of evolutionary theory: it is assumed the starting point is known; the rate of change has been consistent; no isotopes have been introduced or lost. Any observation contrary to the requirements of evolution is discarded as an aberration. On the other hand, ignoring the ludicrous idea that God would artificially age the rocks to give them the appearance of antiquity, the creationist would point out that no-one knows what effect the act of creation would have had on them. Therefore the starting point is not known. Additionally the rate of change in the rocks since their creation would have been significantly altered by the disasters mentioned in the previous paragraph.

For those reasons, to insist the geological formations are millions or billions of years old is to use a circular argument: these rocks are x years old, because they contain fossils that are x years old, because they are found in rocks that are x years old!

The alternative is clear. The massive amount of change required by evolution and the existence of ‘The Triple Whammy’ to prevent such change taking place, demonstrates that the only possible way our world and its inhabitants could have come into being, is by ‘outside interference’ from some source of intelligence and power beyond anything we could imagine: our Creator-God. This is not merely superstition or blind religious faith, but is based on sound scientific, mathematical and logical observation.

horizontal rule
Notes:

1. Actually, it doesn’t matter whether the code needing to change was all together as in this example, or scattered across the DNA; the same principle applies.
2. This is the whole point of the human genome project: now the mapping is completed, the process goes on to discover the function of each of the individual elements of the DNA.
3. Francis Collins, John ; Riordan, Lap-Chee Tsui, "The Cystic Fibrosis Gene: Isolation and Significance," Hospital Practice, 1990-OCT-15.


The article's fairly long, so wrapped the less relevant segments with spoiler tags.
Posted By: Pariah Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-22 10:45 PM
 Originally Posted By: Juche
What? It is a primate, just in a very early stage. It's still in the process of evolving from other mammals.


It's really old, so you assume it's in a stage of development. Hilarious.

 Quote:
Oh dear. What do you think then? And please tell me you're not a creationist or something. \:lol\:


I haven't made an attempt to argue on behalf of creationism. As far as I'm concerned that's an entirely separate argument. I denied evolution before I even went back to religion.
Posted By: allan1 Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-23 12:09 AM
Here's my only question:If humans evolved from apes,then why are there still apes?
Posted By: allan1 Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-23 12:09 AM
 Originally Posted By: Glacier16

You have the ring....and I see your schwartz is as big as mine.
Posted By: Nöwheremän Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-23 12:11 AM
 Originally Posted By: allan1
Here's my only question:If humans evolved from apes,then why are there still apes?

Black men are not apes.
I keep telling you that, but you dont believe me, do you?
Posted By: allan1 Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-23 12:12 AM
I need proof.
Posted By: Nöwheremän Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-23 12:13 AM
Well once Knut comes down from his tree, he will give you proof.
Posted By: Pariah Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-23 12:19 AM
 Originally Posted By: allan1
Here's my only question:If humans evolved from apes,then why are there still apes?


According to (modern) evolutionary theory, new species branch off from other species. They don't replace them.

Of course, that doesn't explain why our alleged mutual ancestor, a mystery primate, is gone. In fact, the absence of such crucuial evidence is rather dubious.
Posted By: allan1 Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-23 12:24 AM
 Originally Posted By: Nöwheremän
Well once Knut comes down from his tree, he will give you proof.

......and beer.He better bring beer.
Posted By: thedoctor Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-23 12:52 AM
It'll be malt liquor.
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-23 1:32 AM
Posted By: Nöwheremän Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-23 2:33 AM
 Originally Posted By: Pariah
 Originally Posted By: allan1
Here's my only question:If humans evolved from apes,then why are there still apes?


According to (modern) evolutionary theory, new species branch off from other species. They don't replace them.

Of course, that doesn't explain why our alleged mutual ancestor, a mystery primate, is gone. In fact, the absence of such crucuial evidence is rather dubious.

You think the absence of a penis on most women is rather dubious!
Posted By: Nöwheremän Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-23 2:34 AM
 Originally Posted By: BASAMS The Plumber

I'm off to the liquor store to get me some of that.
-Snarf
Posted By: Pariah Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-23 3:43 AM
 Originally Posted By: Nöwheremän
 Originally Posted By: Pariah
 Originally Posted By: allan1
Here's my only question:If humans evolved from apes,then why are there still apes?


According to (modern) evolutionary theory, new species branch off from other species. They don't replace them.

Of course, that doesn't explain why our alleged mutual ancestor, a mystery primate, is gone. In fact, the absence of such crucuial evidence is rather dubious.

You think the absence of a penis on most women is rather dubious!


\:-\[
Posted By: Juche Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-23 3:51 AM
 Originally Posted By: allan1
Here's my only question:If humans evolved from apes,then why are there still apes?


HAAAAAAAAAHHHAAHaHA HAHA HAHAA HAHAHAhahahaHAHHHA HAHAHAhahaHAHA \:lol\: \:lol\: \:lol\: *print screen*
Posted By: Captain Sammitch Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-23 3:52 AM
stop telling juche what to think, pariah. that's his government's job.
Posted By: Juche Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-23 3:53 AM
 Originally Posted By: Pariah
 Originally Posted By: Juche
What? It is a primate, just in a very early stage. It's still in the process of evolving from other mammals.


It's really old, so you assume it's in a stage of development. Hilarious.

 Quote:
Oh dear. What do you think then? And please tell me you're not a creationist or something. \:lol\:


I haven't made an attempt to argue on behalf of creationism. As far as I'm concerned that's an entirely separate argument. I denied evolution before I even went back to religion.


You deny evolution? Then sir, you have just disqualified yourself from this topic.
Posted By: Nöwheremän Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-23 3:54 AM
Have you seen pictures of Pariah?
He is proof that evolution doesnt exist....in some people!
Posted By: Juche Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-23 4:03 AM
No I haven't.

I always thought Martin Keown was the missing link.
Posted By: Nöwheremän Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-23 4:09 AM
Posted By: Juche Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-23 4:16 AM
Does he really think God created that car? It must have evolved from something less.
Posted By: Pariah Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-23 4:18 AM
Says the ginger limey.

 Originally Posted By: Juche
You deny evolution? Then sir, you have just disqualified yourself from this topic.


How does denying junk science disqualify me from anything?
Posted By: Juche Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-23 4:25 AM
You just called the evolution theory (even though it isn't a theory anymore) junk science...
Posted By: Pariah Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-23 4:37 AM
Uh, actually it is indeed a theory. It has not yet--and probably won't ever--conglomerate enough evidence to be considered empirically factual. I'm sure public school has really fucked you up in the head, but that's no reason to act like a drone your entire life.

This thread should be a decent enough springboard for someone as misinformed as yourself since it has a discussion getting down to the core controversies of the issue:

Darwin challenged, research censored
Posted By: Juche Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-23 4:41 AM
You know that science is accepting the most likely theory, as the truth. So evolution theory is the truth.

Anyway I'm going to sleep now, I'll print out your topic for a toilet read tomorrow, should be amusing.
Posted By: Captain Sammitch Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-23 5:28 AM
another one bites the dust...
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-24 2:48 AM
What I find funny about evolution believers is how gullible they are. They tend to believe everything that the religion of science throws at them. If the text book says that man evolved then that is what they believe, because they posses no independent thought of their own. Once the textbooks change again so will their beliefs. It's a great religion because anytime their belief is disproved they can strike it up to a new "find", or new study. Never having to own up that it's guesswork and conjecture shrouded as fact.
Posted By: Juche Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-24 3:28 AM
Bla bla bla... so you reject the evolution theory? Please confirm or deny.
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-24 5:26 AM
are you a retard?
Posted By: MisterJLA Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-24 6:30 AM
Isn't he an Insurgent? Same thing, really.
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-24 4:26 PM
Posted By: iggy Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-24 11:43 PM
I'll confirm. Yes, I reject the evolutionary hypothesis based upon current evidence. May my opinion change if better proof is presented, yes. But, as it stands now, I don't see anything that makes evolutionary theory any more or less credible than creationism.

Personally, I've put that entire argument on the back burner because there are still just too many questions and not enough answers. I don't know about you, but I don't have time for that shit. I can't be arsed enough to be overly concerned with what happened thousands to millions of years ago. I've got shit to focus on here and now.

I don't mind if people believe one way or another, I think it is well within their rights and faculties to do so if they become convinced that their belief is well reasoned. But, Juche, you sound like just another one of those people that except it as true because Paster Ron or "Reverend" Dawkins told you so.
Posted By: Nöwheremän Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-25 2:43 AM
Ya know what?
I have no idea about evolution or what happened, and quite frankly I dont care, but, anyone who believes we were put here by some omnipotent being who sent his son to Earth so he could be nailed to a cross, is fucking mental.

The bible is the biggest work of fiction....EVER!
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-25 2:56 AM
see even nowhereman can be an idiot sometime.
Posted By: rex Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-25 3:02 AM
Sometimes?
Posted By: K-nutreturns Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-25 4:37 AM
 Originally Posted By: Nöwheremän
Well once Knut comes down from his tree, he will give you proof.



Posted By: K-nutreturns Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-25 4:40 AM
 Originally Posted By: Nöwheremän
Ya know what?
I have no idea about evolution or what happened, and quite frankly I dont care, but, anyone who believes we were put here by some omnipotent being who sent his son to Earth so he could be nailed to a cross, is fucking mental.

The bible is the biggest work of fiction....EVER!



sounds like you read the script online...
Posted By: Nöwheremän Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-25 4:54 AM
 Originally Posted By: K-nutreturns
 Originally Posted By: Nöwheremän
Well once Knut comes down from his tree, he will give you proof.




Rassist!
Posted By: Pariah Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-25 11:22 AM
 Originally Posted By: BASAMS The Plumber
see even nowhereman can be an idiot sometime.


Ginger gets credit for not caring either way.

It's the atheists that believe in evolution simply because they don't like the idea of there being a God as an alternative explanation that are insecure tards. I mean, no one told them they had to believe in God just because evolution might not be true.
Posted By: Nöwheremän Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-25 4:47 PM
I dont believe in anything, as quite frankly there is no proof either way!
Posted By: thedoctor Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-26 8:36 PM
You're right. There is no proof that you don't believe in anything.
Posted By: Juche Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-27 12:37 AM
 Originally Posted By: iggy
I'll confirm. Yes, I reject the evolutionary hypothesis based upon current evidence. May my opinion change if better proof is presented, yes. But, as it stands now, I don't see anything that makes evolutionary theory any more or less credible than creationism.

Personally, I've put that entire argument on the back burner because there are still just too many questions and not enough answers. I don't know about you, but I don't have time for that shit. I can't be arsed enough to be overly concerned with what happened thousands to millions of years ago. I've got shit to focus on here and now.

I don't mind if people believe one way or another, I think it is well within their rights and faculties to do so if they become convinced that their belief is well reasoned. But, Juche, you sound like just another one of those people that except it as true because Paster Ron or "Reverend" Dawkins told you so.


There is enough evidence, you probably just didn't read enough of it. There is however, no evidence at all to support creationism. But well I do care, of course there are still many gaps to fill in, but that doesn't make it any less acceptable. And who are Paster Ron or Reverend Dawkins?
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-27 4:21 AM
you are a dumbass.
Posted By: Pariah Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-27 4:23 AM
 Originally Posted By: Juche
There is enough evidence, you probably just didn't read enough of it.


You've made no case for this.
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-27 4:26 AM
 Originally Posted By: King Snarf
I was out tonight, and for whatever reason, I strike up some small talk with a random woman (pigs must have been flying). While it didn't go absolutely badly (she smiled when she talked to me), I couldn't even get her name, much less anything else. Which leads me to ask "What the fuck is wrong with me?" My friend Nicole tried to cheer me up with "Maybe there's something wrong with her", which I suppose would make sense, except for the fact that EVERY woman that I've ever been interested in romantically/ sexually has rejected me in some form or another, leading me to believe that it's me there's something wrong with and not the entire female gender. For the past 15 minutes I've been trying to stop crying, and I haven't been entirely successful.

All I've ever wanted was someone to be in love with, and have that same person be in love with me, and I'm starting to realize that that is never going to happen.
Posted By: Juche Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-28 5:52 PM
 Originally Posted By: BASAMS The Plumber
you are a dumbass.


Not really, not on this topic at least.
Posted By: rex Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-28 7:34 PM
You're a retarded dumbass in every topic. And in real life.
Posted By: K-nutreturns Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-28 10:03 PM
 Originally Posted By: Juche
 Originally Posted By: BASAMS The Plumber
you are a dumbass.


Not really, not on this topic at least.



especially this topic...
Posted By: Juche Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-28 10:35 PM
Get the fuck out of this topic then if you're going to be ignorant.
Posted By: rex Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-28 10:36 PM
 Originally Posted By: Juche
Get the fuck out of this topic then if you're going to be ignorant.


So you're gonna stop posting now?
Posted By: Juche Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-28 10:45 PM
If it's going down to the level of calling just each other idiots, probably yes.
Posted By: rex Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-28 10:48 PM
 Originally Posted By: Juche
Posted By: Captain Sammitch Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-28 11:00 PM
\:lol\:
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-28 11:21 PM
\:lol\: \:lol\:
Posted By: Pariah Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-29 1:38 AM
 Originally Posted By: Juche
Not really, not on this topic at least.


I keep asking you to actually respond in regards to this topic, but all you keep doing is making denials.

Maybe if you were more substantive, you be wouldn't be insulted.
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-29 4:24 AM
he doesnt have an opinion, he only has his textbooks at school.
Posted By: K-nutreturns Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-29 7:42 PM
 Originally Posted By: Juche
Get the fuck out of this topic then if you're going to be ignorant.


\:damn\:


\:lol\:
Posted By: Juche Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-30 4:41 AM
 Originally Posted By: BASAMS The Plumber
he doesnt have an opinion, he only has his textbooks at school.


What opinion? I just accept the most likely theory as the truth. I suggest you read those textbooks if you think otherwise.
Posted By: Pariah Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-30 5:16 AM
You can't even identify the aspects of the theory that make it "most likely."
Posted By: iggy Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-30 5:23 AM
Well, you see. Juche is smarter than us. He rightly pointed out that people were never cordial with Hitler: http://www.rkmbs.com/...429#Post1061429

Posted By: Juche Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-30 5:34 AM
 Originally Posted By: Pariah
You can't even identify the aspects of the theory that make it "most likely."


I can, but there's nothing to argue. We both know what points we're going to bring up, it's been done before, it's a waste of time.

And Iggy, keep that debate in the right topic.
Posted By: rex Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-30 6:18 AM
 Originally Posted By: Juche
[quote=Pariah]

And Iggy, keep that debate in the right topic.


What do you think about abortions? The death penalty? Freedom of speech? The retardation of America?
Posted By: MisterJLA Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-30 8:50 AM
 Originally Posted By: rex
The retardation of America?


I'm all for it.

-Juche
Posted By: Juche Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-30 2:27 PM
 Originally Posted By: rex
 Originally Posted By: Juche
[quote=Pariah]

And Iggy, keep that debate in the right topic.


What do you think about abortions? The death penalty? Freedom of speech? The retardation of America?


If we're going offtopic...

I'm pro abortion
Against the death penalty
Pro freedom of speech
And I don't get what you mean by the last.
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-30 3:40 PM
 Originally Posted By: Juche
 Originally Posted By: Pariah
You can't even identify the aspects of the theory that make it "most likely."


I can, but there's nothing to argue. We both know what points we're going to bring up, it's been done before, it's a waste of time.

:


Translation: Juche is talking out of his ass.
Posted By: Juche Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-30 4:17 PM
Okay, how do you think the modern human came here then? Created on the sixth day by God or placed on earth by aliens?
Posted By: rex Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-30 4:22 PM
 Originally Posted By: Juche
 Originally Posted By: rex
 Originally Posted By: Juche
[quote=Pariah]

And Iggy, keep that debate in the right topic.


What do you think about abortions? The death penalty? Freedom of speech? The retardation of America?


If we're going offtopic...

I'm pro abortion
Against the death penalty
Pro freedom of speech
And I don't get what you mean by the last.


WHY ARE YOU GOING OFF TOPIC? THIS IS A SERIOUS DISCUSSION!
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-30 4:29 PM
JUCHE YOUR DISRESPECT FOR THE FORUM TOPIC IS TEARING THESE BOARDS APART!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted By: Pariah Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-30 5:00 PM
 Originally Posted By: Juche
Okay, how do you think the modern human came here then? Created on the sixth day by God or placed on earth by aliens?


Richard Dawkins paid tribute to the latter theory in Ben Stein's Expelled as a means of considering an ID theory that would be acceptable according to his anti-God standards. He's one of the guys who wrote the textbooks you've pledged your loyalty to.

But I think the real question here for people like yourself is: Why the fuck do you care?

Just because your belief in evolution may be compromised, that doesn't mean anyone is forcing you to believe in God or in the idea that He created us. Just concede that you have no idea and that there's no way for you to know for sure and move on.

Just because no other rational explanation exists, that doesn't make it prudent to grab onto one that's astronomically remote if not ridiculous.
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-30 5:01 PM
also Juche, stop touching yourself.
Posted By: Juche Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-30 5:16 PM
 Originally Posted By: Pariah
 Originally Posted By: Juche
Okay, how do you think the modern human came here then? Created on the sixth day by God or placed on earth by aliens?


Richard Dawkins paid tribute to the latter theory in Ben Stein's Expelled as a means of considering an ID theory that would be acceptable according to his anti-God standards. He's one of the guys who wrote the textbooks you've pledged your loyalty to.

But I think the real question here for people like yourself is: Why the fuck do you care?

Just because your belief in evolution may be compromised, that doesn't mean anyone is forcing you to believe in God or in the idea that He created us. Just concede that you have no idea and that there's no way for you to know for sure and move on.

Just because no other rational explanation exists, that doesn't make it prudent to grab onto one that's astronomically remote if not ridiculous.



Like I said, of course I don't know for 100% sure, there is just no evidence to believe otherwise. I don't get what Richard Dawkins did to pay tribute to Ben Stein, please give a source I must have missed something.
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-30 5:31 PM
 Originally Posted By: Juche
I must have missed something.


the story of your life.
Posted By: Juche Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-30 5:40 PM
You're really the one to say such a thing eh.
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-30 6:13 PM
pee wee herman?
Posted By: Juche Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-31 3:42 AM
What?
Posted By: Pariah Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-05-31 4:42 AM
 Originally Posted By: Juche
Like I said, of course I don't know for 100% sure, there is just no evidence to believe otherwise. I don't get what Richard Dawkins did to pay tribute to Ben Stein, please give a source I must have missed something.


My point here is that you don't even know for 1% sure. So there's no real warrant to pay attention to the theory.

Saying "there's no evidence to believe otherwise" doesn't actually attribute credence to it. If my wallet went missing and someone told me a leprechaun walked off with it, I should be compelled to believe what he or she said simply because there's no evidence leprechaun's don't exist.

At the end of Expelled, Ben Stein had an interview with Dawkins in which Stein compelled Dawkins to propose an Intelligent Design theory that involved us being put here by a different race. This effectively made the point that the ire leveled at people who believe Intelligent Design has more to do with a dislike for the idea that a God exists than it does for evolution being the most likely explanation.
Posted By: Juche Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-06-01 1:45 AM
It's most likely that it wasn't a Leprechaun because it's more likely that Leprechauns don't exist. So that is the truth.

Because you're doomed as a scientist if you're going to explain things by God. But why should God to be the answer if they evolution theory looks so plausible?
Posted By: Pariah Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-06-01 2:47 AM
 Originally Posted By: Juche
It's most likely that it wasn't a Leprechaun because it's more likely that Leprechauns don't exist. So that is the truth.


But it can't be confirmed that Leprechauns don't truly exist. By the same logic applied to evolution, I'm forced to accept that it may have been a Leprechaun that stole my wallet.

 Quote:
Because you're doomed as a scientist if you're going to explain things by God. But why should God to be the answer if they evolution theory looks so plausible?


No one even has to mention God. Scientists just feel paranoid that-that's what they'll be forced to acknowledge if evolution were designated as the junk-science that it is. It's possible to be an atheist and not believe in evolution.

Feeling compelled to carry on one theory that hasn't even been remotely proven just because you find the predominance of another particular one to be distasteful is not a credible outlook for a scientist to have. All it does is undermine their principles as scientists.
Posted By: Juche Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-06-01 2:55 AM
What logic are you applying? If I understand, according to you nothing is 100% sure. Even if I saw a leprechaun stealing my wallet, it's more likely that I'm wrong than that Leprechauns really exist.

What other options are there then? We're placed here by an alien race? Than you'd be just passing the ball on, because you can ask how did these aliens get there.

So eh, what do you believe then?
Posted By: Pariah Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-06-01 3:27 AM
 Originally Posted By: Juche
What logic are you applying?


Evolution's progression as a theory is based largely upon the fact that we're here and we have no idea why. As a result, people have intuited upon a reality something they haven't actually observed.

 Quote:
What other options are there then? We're placed here by an alien race? Than you'd be just passing the ball on, because you can ask how did these aliens get there.


Why is there this pathological desire to have an "option." In the end, I really don't think why we're here truly matters to the people who believe in evolution. They already believe that we're a product of random mutations that have no real meaning, so I'm not sure why they'd have such a problem thinking otherwise without obsessing over a roughshod theory.

 Quote:
So eh, what do you believe then?


This is off topic, but I'll indulge you: I believe we're a product of Intelligent Design and I'm a monotheist.
Posted By: Juche Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-06-01 3:32 AM
What makes your intelligent design belief any different from how you describe the evolution theory? It's exactly the same.

Because nobody is ever going to know why we're here, and getting to know how we got here more important in the end.
Posted By: Pariah Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-06-01 3:37 AM
Actually. It's not important at all.

And I know that my particular beliefs are ground in faith. I'm just tired of listening to evolutionists try and claim that their belief system is any different.

They operate on faith just as much, if not moreso, than I do.
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-06-01 3:45 AM
 Originally Posted By: Juche
Posted By: Juche Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-06-01 3:47 AM
What makes you so determined to deny the evolution theory even though it looks very plausible? I'm not going to call it 'most likely to be true by a mile' because it'll look like I'm attacking your faith.

The only question I can't explain myself, is, what/who started everything. As in the beginning of the universe.
Posted By: Pariah Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-06-01 4:40 AM
 Originally Posted By: Juche
What makes you so determined to deny the evolution theory even though it looks very plausible?


Because it doesn't look "very plausible." That's been my point.
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-06-01 6:15 AM
 Originally Posted By: Juche
Posted By: Juche Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-06-02 6:10 PM
 Originally Posted By: Pariah
 Originally Posted By: Juche
What makes you so determined to deny the evolution theory even though it looks very plausible?


Because it doesn't look "very plausible." That's been my point.


Haha, please tell me what looks unplausible about the evolution theory. You know you come across as very ignorant now.
Posted By: Captain Sammitch Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-06-02 6:24 PM
are you aware of how many different protein chains are required for even the simplest form of life? two hundred and fifty - and that's the most generous estimate. each of those requires dozens, if not hundreds, of amino acids to link up in a precise order from end to end. and then those two hundred and fifty proteins themselves need to be assembled together in a precise order to form the various organelles which collectively comprise even the simplest cell. are you willing to put numbers on the probability of all those pieces falling into place just right through random interactions in a primordial soup?

evolution happens. any idiot can see living organisms adapting to their environment over time. but it's one thing to say 'all living things adapt to their environment over time' and something else entirely to extend that to the descent of all living species from a common ancestor through unguided mutation and natural selection. the fossil record will never cough up all the interim forms you'd need to find, and the only way to force the meager evidence to support that idea is to work in enough loopholes and wiggle room that we can't even easily define what a species is anymore.

of course no scientist will openly admit that on the record, because their (government) research funding depends on the statements they're willing to make. this debate isn't a conflict between 'science' and 'religion'. it's a conflict of worldviews, and there are plenty of people so desperate to 'disprove' the existence of a Creator that they're willing to throw a lot of money down empirical dead ends in order to silence the opposition.
Posted By: Juche Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-06-02 6:35 PM
Yes, I didn't say I can explain how life started. Nobody knows that.

And we still see natural selection happening every day, and that species really do start to differ from each other if they live apart from each other for a time. How can you deny that? It's a very logical explanation about how new species started.

The last things you mention seems like a conspiracy theory though. I don't see why my government should have any interest in wether evolution is true or not.
Posted By: Captain Sammitch Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-06-02 6:43 PM
species start to differ from each other? like darwin's moths? they were still moths - they could have mated and produced viable, fertile progeny. the finches were still finches, the turtles were still turtles. at best it's subspecies differentiation. as I said, the only way scientists have been able to extend that across the boundary of species is to muddy up the definition of what comprises a species.

and it's hardly a conspiracy theory - it's way too obvious. too many people think they can use science to answer metaphysical questions like whether or not life was created or just began accidentally, as though finding a mechanism for how somehow explains away the why. it doesn't. the fact is, the marxist worldview europeans and liberal Americans like to call "progressive" has no use for God, so the sooner they can remove Him from the equation the better. trying to use science outside of its own purview to 'prove' we all got here by chance is a good place to start.
Posted By: Juche Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-06-02 6:58 PM
No, what about the Galapagos Islands then. What's so unlikely about different species having the same ancestors?

And to me that isn't any different than people being so determined to use the bible as the answer for every question. Denying potential evidence just because the bible stated something completely different. How is that any better?
Posted By: Captain Sammitch Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-06-02 7:05 PM
'potential evidence'?

there are similarities, actually. people have tried to use the Bible to explain things outside of the purposes for which it exists just like people are trying to use the scientific method to explain things it's not intended to explain. I'm not claiming to have all the answers here; my problem is with the abuses of science and the strongarm tactics used to silence opposition and prevent debate. could species evolve into other species? it's not impossible. but let's not say 'well we obviously know this is true' when we really don't. evolutionary theory is not set in stone; elements are constantly being overturned and replaced within it. to say 'this is a bulletproof theory for how everything got here' is a bit premature.
Posted By: Captain Sammitch Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-06-02 7:08 PM
 Originally Posted By: Juche
No, what about the Galapagos Islands then. What's so unlikely about different species having the same ancestors?


 Originally Posted By: Captain Sammitch, in my previous post
like darwin's moths? they were still moths - they could have mated and produced viable, fertile progeny. the finches were still finches, the turtles were still turtles. at best it's subspecies differentiation.
Posted By: Juche Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-06-02 7:10 PM
Meh, that sounds a little better already than flat out denying it because you have something against science. I know it isn't set in stone yet, I know Darwin got disproven on a few aspects of the theory already. But at the moment it seems to be the most likely explanation on how species came to be. Intelligent Design will never be accepted as the truth because it can never be proven.
Posted By: Juche Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-06-02 7:18 PM
 Originally Posted By: Captain Sammitch
 Originally Posted By: Juche
No, what about the Galapagos Islands then. What's so unlikely about different species having the same ancestors?


 Originally Posted By: Captain Sammitch, in my previous post
like darwin's moths? they were still moths - they could have mated and produced viable, fertile progeny. the finches were still finches, the turtles were still turtles. at best it's subspecies differentiation.


The moth is just one example. I mean different continents and islands have contain completely different species.
Posted By: Captain Sammitch Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-06-02 8:00 PM
correlation isn't causation. genetic drift is a likely explanation but again, it's not a given and in fact isn't any more provable than ID. the only way to establish a trajectory of genetic drift beyond a shadow of a doubt is to examine the genetic material itself. that doesn't exactly fossilize. because we can't directly observe trans-species genetic drift, it remains at best a plausible hypothesis.
Posted By: MisterJLA Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-06-02 8:12 PM
Yeah...
Posted By: Pariah Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-06-03 12:16 AM
 Originally Posted By: Juche
Haha, please tell me what looks unplausible about the evolution theory. You know you come across as very ignorant now.


You haven't even made clear exactly what makes it plausible.

I did provide a link for you a page or two ago.
Posted By: Juche Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-06-03 12:55 AM
It explains why lifeforms changed, it explains why some lifeforms are much older than others and it explains why lifeforms are different on different places.

Hmm what link? I don't see it.
Posted By: Pariah Re: Missing Link Found - 2009-06-03 9:25 AM
Proposing that magical elven people who predate dinosaurs mystically engineered humans explains the origin of human life as well. That doesn't make it credible.

You have yet to go over the qualities of the theory that legitimize any of the claims you state. Not to mention that your entire sentence is one giant vagary; it covers all the stereotypes without really explaining them.

You're floundering.
© RKMBs