Okay, let's make this the offical MLB steroid forum! Post yer thoughts, rants and opinions here! Let's kick it off with this juicy little tidbit straight from
CNN.com:
Quote:
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Former St. Louis Cardinals slugger Mark McGwire refused to answer questions about steroid use during his playing career at a congressional hearing Thursday, repeatedly telling a House committee he was "not here to talk about the past."
McGwire, who broke Roger Maris' single-season record for home runs in 1998, was among a panel of current and former all-stars who appeared before the House Government Reform Committee to discuss the use of steroids in the majors.
Two other witnesses -- Baltimore Orioles outfielder Sammy Sosa, McGwire's rival in the 1998 home run chase, and Orioles first baseman Rafael Palmeiro -- denied using steroids.
Asked by St. Louis congressman William Clay whether he could assure fans he had played "with honesty and integrity," McGwire said, "I'm not going to go into the past or talk about my past. I'm here to make a positive influence on this."
He also refused to address allegations of steroid use leveled against him and other ballplayers by his one-time Oakland A's teammate Jose Canseco -- the author of a recent tell-all book on the issue -- and said he would not be "naming names."
"My lawyers have advised me that I cannot answer these questions without jeopardizing my friends, my family and myself," McGwire said.
Canseco told the committee that steroids were "as acceptable in the '80s and mid-to-late '90s as a cup of coffee." And he urged Congress to take action to stop the use of steroids.
"I think it would be a major mistake to let the league police itself, no ifs or buts about it," he said. "We'll be back here quicker than quick."
But baseball Commissioner Bud Selig vowed "zero tolerance" for performance-enhancing drugs, saying drug-test rules negotiated with the players union have been toughened over the past four years.
"I will suspend any player who tests positive for an illegal steroid," Selig said. "There will be no exceptions. The union is aware of that, and they accept it."
Canseco bashed
McGwire retired in 2001. He has previously admitted using androstenedione, a precursor to anabolic steroids and a legal substance at the time.
When Clay, a Democrat, asked what other substances he may have used, he said, "I'm not here to talk about the past."
McGwire acknowledged that "there has been a problem with steroid use in baseball" and said he is willing to help lawmakers combat the use of performance-enhancing drugs by younger players.
But he did not directly address Canseco's allegation in his remarks.
"It should be enough that you consider the source of the statements," he said.
In another jab at Canseco, who was just a few seats away, McGwire said his testimony could be used by prosecutors willing to rely on "convicted criminals who would do or say anything to solve their own problems."
Canseco received probation in 2001 after a brawl outside a nightclub in Miami, Florida, and was jailed in 2003 for violating his probation after testing positive for steroids.
Canseco had asked for immunity from prosecution in exchange for his testimony, but that request was refused. In his book, he also accuses Sosa and Palmeiro of using steroids.
Palmeiro told members of the House committee that Canseco is lying.
"I have never used steroids. Period," Palmeiro said. "I do not know how to say it any more clearly than that."
Sosa said in an opening statement read by his lawyer: "Everything I have heard about steroids and human growth hormones is that they are very bad for you."
In 2001, Barry Bonds of the San Francisco Giants hit 73 home runs to break McGwire's record. Bonds, who has testified before a grand jury in a California steroids case, was not subpoenaed by the House panel.
Chairman: 'Cloud' over game
Earlier, committee members said officials of the national pastime have failed to confront the problem of performance-enhancing illegal drugs.
"There's a cloud over the game that I love," said Republican Tom Davis of Virginia, the panel's chairman.
"I would hope that baseball would see this hearing as an opportunity."
But Selig blamed the "cloud" on critics "who, although well-intentioned, are not well-informed about baseball's multifaceted campaign against such substances."
Lawmakers said they are concerned about steroid use because of the perception it creates among college and high school athletes, pointing to studies showing increased steroid use in youths.
In their testimony, the players offered condolences to the families of young players who committed suicide after taking steroids.
Donald Hooton of Plano, Texas, provided emotional testimony about his 17-year-old son Taylor, who used steroids and killed himself in 2003.
"Let me implore you to take steps to clean up this mess," he told the panel. "Please help us to see that our children's lives were not lost in vain."
"Players that are guilty of taking steroids are not only cheaters, you are cowards," he said.
Panel formed
Boston Red Sox pitcher Curt Schilling and Chicago White Sox designated hitter Frank Thomas, outspoken critics of steroid use, were named to an advisory panel, along with committee leaders. Palmeiro volunteered to serve on that body.
Schilling warned lawmakers against "glorifying the so-called author" or "indirectly assisting him to sell more books."
"A book which devotes hundreds of pages to glorifying steroid usage, in which he contends steroid usage is justified and will be the norm in this country in several years, is a disgrace, was written irresponsibly and sends the opposite message that needs to be sent to kids," he said.
He disputed Canseco's assertion that the major leagues and its players would be unable to police themselves, saying the more than 90 percent of players who don't use steroids want those who do to be exposed.
"I think the fear of public embarrassment and humiliation upon being caught is going to be greater than any player ever imagined," Schilling said.
And even Canseco said that the fact that ballplayers were sitting in front of a congressional committee "is going to be a major deterrent."
The antipathy toward Canseco by his former teammates and rivals was such that committee leaders agreed to swear in the witnesses one-by-one, since the other ballplayers objected to the image of being sworn at the same time as Canseco, said a top committee aide who asked not to be identified.
Questions about punishment
Selig said the players union took an "unprecedented step" in December by reopening its current labor agreement to discuss a stronger policy on performance-enhancing drugs.
President Donald Fehr said the union does not support or condone "the use of any illegal substance."
"We are committed to dispelling any notion that the route to becoming a major league athlete somehow includes the taking of unlawful performance-enhancing substances," he said.
Sen. Jim Bunning, a baseball Hall of Famer, was the first witness. The Kentucky Republican said the league's penalties for a positive steroid test "are really puny."
Players who break the law should be severely punished, and their records should be wiped out, he said.
But Davis and California Rep. Henry Waxman, a Democrat, said a key loophole suspends baseball's steroid policy in the event of a government investigation.
They also blasted baseball officials for hailing the drug policy as the "gold standard" in sport, when its standards fall short of those used by the Olympics.
And despite baseball officials' calls for full public disclosure, the actual policy says all testing results should "remain strictly confidential," they said.
The fact that McGwire refuses to answer questions on his usage or invoke his fifth amendment rights tells me he knowingly used anabolic steroids during his playing career. He dodged questions with the deft of Bill Clinton during the Lewinsky hearings. It's dissapointing to me, not that he used them, but that he isn't cooperating. Why players can't follow Arnold Schwarzeneggers lead is beyond me. The govenor has steadfastly admitted use and says he doesn't regret it because it wasn't illegal to use them at that time. MLB players should do the same.
not necessarily.......these guys weren't talking because they didn'y get immunity.......I believe he took steroids.....it's just that if there was immunity you would have seen him talk more.
I agree with you 100% Jim.
It's tarnished and the fool selig doesn't see that only yankees, red sox, cubs, and a few other loyalist fans will continue watching baseball if something isn't done..
I won't... And animalman compared baseball to football and the olympics..the olympics have been doing it for decades and people are finally getting busted because they have a policy....
Football always has had a policy and there isn't a problem...ask romanowski..
yes he can, he has the ability to remove anyone from consideration. just like in the Rose case, it's highly unlikely he would but to say he cannot excersise any of the commissioners powers is silly on your part. he has the ability to make anyone ineligible.
Ok, yeah, I got that the Commish can put people on the Inelligible list a la Rose.
if we are agreeing i would like to now take the other side of the argument.
No, I was not calling you an idiot. I was saying that the idea of singling out a few players as steroid-users, based on nothing more than a sudden increase in muscle or stats, and erasing their careers for that, is idiotic.
MLB can't wipe out records when they pretty much allowed steroid use in the first place. There's no way they can determine who did and who didn't use steroids. Just like they can't figure out who corked their bat, who used Vaseline on a ball or hid a tack in their mitt. Besides, they want these players to come forward, not feel as though they're being persecuted. MLB has to move forward and to do that is to have strict testing all year around and stiff penalties for those who break the rules.
I found this interesting:
AP Exclusive: McGwire falling short, Bonds getting by with Hall voters, survey shows
By RONALD BLUM, AP Sports Writer
March 25, 2005 NEW YORK (AP) -- Mark McGwire could be shut out from the Hall of Fame because of baseball's swirling steroids scandal, heightened by the slugger's refusal to answer specific questions about performance-enhancing drugs before Congress, an Associated Press survey showed.
Barry Bonds appears to have enough support to get in, but he's far from a shoo-in, according to the sentiments of 155 Hall of Fame voters who responded to the survey. They are among the roughly 500 members of the Baseball Writers' Association of America who will be eligible to vote when McGwire is on the ballot in two years.
Of the 155 who responded, 65 said they would vote for McGwire or were leaning that way; 52 said they would not or were leaning that way. The remaining 38 were undecided.
Players must be approved on 75 percent of ballots cast to make the Hall.
Among the voters surveyed who expressed an inclination, only 55.6 percent said they supported McGwire's induction.
``I will not vote for Mark McGwire,'' Bill Plaschke of the Los Angeles Times said. ``It's obvious from his own statements he used some form of performance-enhancing drugs and it's obvious from his statistics he did not become a Hall of Fame-type player until he did so.''
Bonds won 80.8 percent approval among yes-or-no voters, with 105 votes for election and 25 against. The remaining 25 were undecided.
Based on their career numbers alone, Bonds and McGwire would seem undeniable candidates for Hall of Fame induction. McGwire ranks sixth on the home runs list with 583, but will be best remembered for his heroic 1998 season, when he hit 70 home runs to shatter Roger Maris' decades-old record of 61.
Bonds eclipsed McGwire's mark in 2001 by slugging 73 home runs. But he is now within reach of an even bigger prize: His 703 career home runs are just 52 shy of Hank Aaron's career record, and he needs just 11 to pass Babe Ruth.
Among the 20 players to hit 500 homers, all who have appeared on the ballot are in the Hall. The steroid scandal, however, seems to be weighing on the minds of many voters who could help break that streak.
``Right now I'm sort of sitting on the fence, but leaning toward not voting for McGwire or Bonds because they cheated,'' said Hal McCoy of the Dayton Daily News, himself a member of the Hall's writers' wing.
``McGwire had the opportunity to say something, but didn't. To me, that's sort of like pleading the Fifth Amendment and not denying he did it,'' he said.
Dan Le Batard of The Miami Herald said he would vote for both.
``Barry Bonds is the greatest player of our lifetime, with or without steroids. He won three MVPs as a stick figure,'' he said. ``I don't think they were cheating. Something has to be against the rules for you to be cheating. Despite their size, these guys climbed through a loophole.''
Baseball did not ban steroids until 2002.
Subpoenaed by a congressional committee to testify last week, McGwire repeatedly refused to discuss whether he used illegal performance-enhancing drugs, saying he would not talk about the past.
The slugger was roundly criticized by fans, media and politicians -- even in Missouri, the state where he broke Maris' season home-run record while playing for the St. Louis Cardinals.
``He had a chance to help himself, help his sport, a chance to help kids and the parents sitting behind him and he just whiffed,'' said Jay Mariotti of the Chicago Sun-Times. ``It might as well be a guilt admission.''
Leading up to his testimony before the congressional panel, McGwire had repeatedly denied using steroids. As had Bonds, who was not asked to appear before Congress. But Bonds, according to the San Francisco Chronicle, testified to a grand jury in 2003 that he used a clear substance and a cream given to him by a trainer who was indicted in a steroid-distribution ring, saying he didn't know if they were steroids.
In any case, Henry Schulman, who covers the Giants for the Chronicle, plans to vote for both.
``The Hall of Fame is not a museum for saints. It's filled with racists, philanderers, players who used cork bats and spitters and everything at their disposal to their advantage,'' he said. ``It's hard for me to single McGwire out. Unless he commits a crime, he's on my ballot.''
As for Bonds, Schulman said: ``I think he was a Hall of Famer before he had those monster home run seasons. ... Even if he were convicted of a crime, I would probably give him my vote to be consistent within myself. I've always felt Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame. I'd have to get some damning evidence confirmed on Barry before I would knock him off my first ballot.''
There's no telling when members of the Baseball Writers' Association of America will be asked to decide on Bonds -- players must be retired for five years before going on the ballot.
The AP contacted members of the BBWAA who are eligible to vote or will be by 2007 and asked whether they would support Bonds and/or McGwire for the Hall. Seventeen of those were AP sports writers.
This year, 516 votes were cast for the Hall by BBWAA voters, who must be members of the organization for 10 consecutive years or more to be eligible. The total of eligible voters is likely to increase slightly by the time McGwire and Bonds appear on the ballot.
The following AP Sports Writers contributed to this report: Nancy Armour, Bob Baum, Dave Campbell, R.B. Fallstrom, Rick Gano, Fred Goodall, Stephen Hawkins, Joe Kay, Tim Korte, Larry Lage, Rob Maaddi, Janie McCauley, John Nadel, Alan Robinson, Arnie Stapleton, Doug Tucker, Howard Ulman, Joseph White, Bernie Wilson, Steven Wine and Tom Withers.
I'm not sure if Bonds or McGwire are HOF material before the alleged steroid years. At least not 1st ballot material. But we'll never know. Too bad MLB doesn't have the balls to have a zero tolerance policy, despite having the government breathing down their necks.
I would think both of them would be guaranteed to enter the hall for breaking Maris' and McGuire's records respectivily.
In the NHL, anyone who scores 500 goals in a career is a given for the hall.
I like that baseball is a lot more strict, but still, without solid evidence that steroids affected those numbers, how can they not get into the hall?
I'm only posting the last few paragraphs of this column. They basically sum up the whole thing, and add his poing.
Steroids prompt questions
For instance, how do you identify past users and quantify what they did? It seems futile.
By Lynn Henning / The Detroit News
...
Home-run records are the least of baseball's concerns: I got a phone call late last week from The Associated Press: Would I vote for Bonds and McGwire for the Hall of Fame based upon perceptions, however erroneous, of steroids use during their record-breaking, home-run-binge years?
My answer: I want to see more evidence and entertain fewer perceptions. I want to know -- to repeat -- what they were taking, when they were taking it, and its likely effects on their performances.
I don't expect any of that data will be provided satisfactorily.
Which is why I can do quite nicely, for now, without having to cast imaginary votes for either player. We'll see in a few years, with much more clarity, how much of an aberration those 70-home-run seasons really were.
I suspect -- suspect -- Bonds' efforts will be viewed as having been so exceptional, for so many years, that he'll be heading to Cooperstown. He'll be judged as having transcended steroids' effect if they are part of his story.\
McGwire is another issue. He had the dramatic record-breaking season in 1998, he hit 571 home runs, but if steroids were part of his script, he probably finishes beneath the line because he can't begin to match Bonds' stratospheric numbers and longevity.
But I also don't care whether each gets a plaque because their candidacies are way beneath the more important matters that steroids and baseball are all about: public health, effects on kids who have been tempted to try steroids, the smearing of reputations and the warped performances that could have been induced by the presence of illegal -- according to federal law -- performance enhancers.
I could also have stood for Congress to have gotten on this month with other, more critical matters. But whether it was intervening for limelight's sake in the steroids flap, or in the matter of Terri Schiavo, Congress had more self-aggrandizing opportunities.
And it's sad to say we shouldn't have expected otherwise.