northwood saga

RKMBs

there was a time, many years ago, when things were simpler. easier. and, most importantly, the DCMBs weren't so screwy.

even before the mighty era of the infopop "black and blue" dcmbs, and the terrible reign of the ruthless, right-wing dictator, rob kamphausen.

the dcmbs were once aol-based. a message board community, rather than a forum. it was a peaceful land. quiet. tranquil. and all thanks to one "dcomarc" i.e; marc campbell.

before i did my best to soil his and dc's good name with my horrendous administrating tactics, marc was a friendly moderator and loyal web guy to dc comics.

fast forward a few years, and now marc campbell is a professional author, creating several informational computer nerdery books, and soon, the traditional nerdery type of book;

his own comic!

"northwood saga" is part of marvel's new epic line, and was recently announced as an upcoming book at this years chicago-con

marc, being the good guy that he is, has said he'd like to stop by here and dish some details on ...whatever. the book, the creator process, etc. mebbe even some good tips for anyone else interested in getting something in a comic.

at the same time, he could get some good feedback from a buncha you non-mainstream comic fans (since im just the annoying batman fan).

but lets not forget, campbell... i delete stuff up in this piece! [mwah hwah haa]

Rob. Community. Thanks for having me.

So, yes, after a too-long hiatus from the biz, I'm happy to confirm that what Rob says is true. Some foolish publisher has actually agreed to put out a comic of mine.

It's called Northwood Saga. It's a full-blooded fantasy comic -- elves, dwarfs, sorcerers, some fighting, some philosophizing. The humans are the bad guys. I like to think it's different than the typical Marvel fare, but that's what everybody says, so I won't mention it.

If you're so inclined, you can check out the details here...

The Pulse: Slipping over the Transom

Northwood remains at a very early stage of the production gauntlet. That said, I'd be happy to discuss Epic, the biz, the book, embarrassing moments in-house at DC caused/compounded by Rob, or whatever else happens to come up. As we go, I'll be looking for -- no, expecting -- no, demanding -- your feedback. So please give a shout.

Catching up on old DCMB acquaintances. Making new ones. And working once again with Rob. Yes, it's good to be back in the fold.

Marc

That said...

can I get a free signed copy?

Tell us about Rob's early fuck-ups.

We know about the later ones.

PS I'm drunk.

Please forgive Dave's rudeness, Marc. He's Australian.

I think you'll be freaked out to know that there was a character based on you on the MBL (Message Board League) fan-fic. You were "The Moderator" (opposed to Rob, who was the Anti-Moderator).

Quit trying to suck up....Im getting the first free signed copy!!!!!

Marc, if you want to become a succesful and famous writer, ive got 2 words for you: Power Pack.

Franta, this is my pledge. Free copies to all who request them. Depending on how much money I have when the book comes out, since Marvel will make me buy them myself. FYI, here's a quick mental tally...

Requests for free copies: 162
Promises to buy first issue retail: 3

Looks like the book will do OK if made available free of charge.

***

Dave, looking back, most of the time it was me humiliating Rob on purpose. Halloween 1998, my boss (Greg Ross) and I made Rob wear a black spook mask, the kind with that one-way fabric that you can see out of but others can't see through. Then we made Rob go to a meeting. Greg and I were wearing spook masks, too, so when we marched into the conference room it was like the Procession of the Three Dorks. Nobody else in the meeting was wearing a costume -- and yet, even though the online dept. was the only group unaccounted for, nobody seemed to realize who we were. The others kept looking at us nervously out of the corners of their eyes. We were actually disrupting business processes. It was surreal. After about two uncomfortable minutes, Greg and I revealed our true identities. Shock mixed with relief. Then suddenly all eyes fell on Rob. He hesitated at first, as if to weigh the merits of being the only costume-wearing dork in the room against the sheer humiliation of unmasking in public. Long moments passed. Finally, the mask came off. Bright red face. Hurt in the eyes. He had trusted us, and we had used that trust against him. Those were the days.

***

Not Mxy, ah, the pieces of the puzzle fall into place. I saw some MBL posts once containing what looked like my Secret Files entry. I didn't know what was up about it. Now I know. Maybe you could catch me up on the storyline.

***

Atemyshorts, improving upon the definitive Power Pack run is beyond my skill.

my secret shame!!!

What kind of feedback/interaction have you had with editors?

(Boring, I know, but I just don't really give a shit about Rob).

Ah, so this is Marc Campbell. Now I get all those jokes....uhh I mean uhh...."stories"....yeah, stories.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
Not Mxy, ah, the pieces of the puzzle fall into place. I saw some MBL posts once containing what looked like my Secret Files entry. I didn't know what was up about it. Now I know. Maybe you could catch me up on the storyline.

Well... the Universe that had you as a character was destroyed and we started a new one. You haven't been introduced in the new Universe... yet. You're also a character in a couple of Elseworlds-like stories started a few years ago and never finished.

quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
my secret shame!!!

As opposed to yur public ones.

Good story, Marc. I trust Rob's hair resembled a bird's nest once the mask was removed, and refused to stick to his scalp despite his best efforts with spit.

quote:
Originally posted by Rob:
my secret shame!!!

Then there was the secretary who was hitting on you, remember? She told me you looked like Brad Pitt. The only problem was, you were, what, about 9 years old, and she was like 37. She did have a pretty face, though.

quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Nobody:
What kind of feedback/interaction have you had with editors?

Mr. Nobody, I just got finished with the first round of revisions. This involved Epic telling me what they liked about the first issue as well as what they thought could be improved, and me making the suggested changes.

They liked three things in particular: the genre (small people with pointy ears and melee weapons instead of capes and tights and web shooters), the format (one-shot, self-contained story), and the premise of the story -- it has an underlying theme or meaning behind it. Epic seems to be big on metaphors. They like it when a comic book character has symbolic meaning, like Peter Parker. His powers are a literary device -- they're a metaphor for the awkwardness of puberty. They don't just want a typical comic book character for its own sake, as in "Wouldn't it be cool if a guy dressed up like a bat?" That might appeal to comic fans, but it doesn't help them attract new readers who might be on the fence about the whole issue of guys in bat suits. They want the comic-booky elements to stand for something in human experience: "Wouldn't it be cool to use this guy in the bat suit to explore our fears about urban crime?" This way, non-comics people have an excuse to enjoy the story. They don't have to feel embarrassed or whatever about reading about a guy in a bat suit, since it's not so much about the bat suit anymore. It's really a modern myth about urban crime with a cool visual.

The eds. suggested maybe three things so far to improve the script, and I found their input very helpful. I didn't feel like they were trying to hijack the script. Just the opposite. It felt like they were helping me to tell the best story possible, and they let me take a crack at the changes my own way. They didn't dictate or try to step me through it. I've heard horror stories about editors gone wild, especially at Marvel, but I'm happy to report that this wasn't my experience at all.

The first revisions were about the structure of the story and a few general points about dialog. I submitted a revised version last week. We'll probably push the script back and forth a few more times until we have a final version.

Are you submitting/have you already submitted something?

quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
Ah, so this is Marc Campbell. Now I get all those jokes....uhh I mean uhh...."stories"....yeah, stories.

Look, Animalman, it wasn't my fault. The Krazy Glue wasn't my idea. I was tricked. They made me use it.

quote:
Originally posted by Not Mxy:
Well... the Universe that had you as a character was destroyed and we started a new one...

Not Mxy and Mr. Nobody, this is exactly what I was talking about as far as metaphors go. My character in the MBL was a perfect metaphor for my post-DC corporate career.

quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
Good story, Marc. I trust Rob's hair resembled a bird's nest once the mask was removed, and refused to stick to his scalp despite his best efforts with spit.

Dave, I only wish. Then it would have been perfect. Rob had bigger hair back then, and it was pretty much molded in place with styling gel or some such. The mask alone wasn't enough. We would have needed to run an electric mixer back and forth over his head to get the right effect.

Only because you are the antithesis of Rob shall I try this book you peddle so shamelessly.

If you gotta pay for it Marc Ill pick it up...but you can sign it for me!

Big pimpin' baby! [woooOOOOoooo!]

quote:
Are you submitting/have you already submitted something?

I have submitted and been rejected with my first try. All I got was a generic form letter, little to no advice on how to fix the submission.

I plan on resubmitting this and other ideas.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
Rob. Community. Thanks for having me.

So, yes, after a too-long hiatus from the biz, I'm happy to confirm that what Rob says is true. Some foolish publisher has actually agreed to put out a comic of mine.

It's called Northwood Saga. It's a full-blooded fantasy comic -- elves, dwarfs, sorcerers, some fighting, some philosophizing. The humans are the bad guys. I like to think it's different than the typical Marvel fare, but that's what everybody says, so I won't mention it.

If you're so inclined, you can check out the details here...

The Pulse: Slipping over the Transom

Northwood remains at a very early stage of the production gauntlet. That said, I'd be happy to discuss Epic, the biz, the book, embarrassing moments in-house at DC caused/compounded by Rob, or whatever else happens to come up. As we go, I'll be looking for -- no, expecting -- no, demanding -- your feedback. So please give a shout.

Catching up on old DCMB acquaintances. Making new ones. And working once again with Rob. Yes, it's good to be back in the fold.

Marc

Welcome to the Rob Kamphausen boards, Mike!

marc, do you like gladiator movies?

quote:
Originally posted by theory9:
Only because you are the antithesis of Rob shall I try this book you peddle so shamelessly. ... Big pimpin' baby!

theory9, excellent, many thanks for the support! Re: shameless, you haven't seen anything yet. Wait until the book is actually solicited. TV spots, viral marketing campaign, popup ads, subliminal messaging, mind-altering drugs in water supply.

quote:
Originally posted by THE Franta:
If you gotta pay for it Marc Ill pick it up...but you can sign it for me!

Yes! Guilted another one into making a purchase! Pledges to buy book retail: 4! Ongoing series, here I come! Are you sure you want me to sign it, though? Then your copy won't be in mint condition.

But seriously, I really appreciate the support.

quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Nobody:
I have submitted and been rejected with my first try. All I got was a generic form letter, little to no advice on how to fix the submission. ... I plan on resubmitting this and other ideas.

Well, I know that feeling. They turned down my first Epic sub. They turned me down at DC when I was working for the company. And book publishers...let me count the ways. Nearly every major American publishing house has turned me down at least once.

My creative baby (not Northwood) started life as a comic book back in 1994-1995. I shopped it around. The reaction was, "You know, this would make a better novel." Fast forward to 2001-2002. I have turned the comic series into a prose novel. I shopped it around. The reaction was, "You know, this would make a better comic." It was then that I finally realized something. Rejection-letter feedback is silly.

Like my Epic rejection letter. It said that I wasn't ready to write for comics. I guess that wasn't true after all. And it certainly wasn't true in and of itself. It's a ridiculous blanket statement. There are all kinds of comic books in the world, not just Marvels. Epic doesn't need to send out a rejection letter on behalf of the entire industry.

So I'm glad you're not going to let Epic discourage you.

quote:
Originally posted by Brian Fellow:
Welcome to the Rob Kamphausen boards, Mike!

Thanks for having me, Brian! But please, call me Marc. I insist. [wink]

See, theory9, however shameless these plugs are, they aren't shameless enough.

I'm gonna buy it too, as soon as it gets here to Chile in 2007.

quote:
Originally posted by britneyspearsatemyshorts:
marc, do you like gladiator movies?

Atemyshorts, sure, they're OK. I usually like a couple wizards, maybe a dwarf or two in my swordfight movies. I'm more of a Clash of the Titans guy. What about you? Any good ones you can recommend?

quote:
Originally posted by Not Mxy:
I'm gonna buy it too, as soon as it gets here to Chile in 2007.

Thanks, Not Mxy. I hope it's worth the wait. Say, you're down there in Chupacabra country, right? Any sightings to report?

Marc Campbell, I wasn't sure you were a real person until just this week. The project you've come up with sounds interesting, and I'll definitely be on the lookout for it.

BTW, I was searching on Google for "Marc Campbell" and "MBL" and found a message from the "MessageBoardLeague" Yahoo group which I'm a member of:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MessageBoardLeague/message/865

quote:
Posted by mistermxypltk on May 13, 2000:
Since I'm preparing a animated pic of Marc
Campbell (CAMPbell, KAMPphausen, coincidence?) I will post his origin:

Name: Marc Campbell

Ocupation: Moderator

Former Ocupation: Ruler of the DCMB

Powers: Unlimeted powers

History: Marc Campbell was a mild-mannered citizen of the MB-earth, but one day, the Lords of The DCMB offered him the power to keep peace in the MB. Marc used his power wisely, letting people enjoy their lives.

But one day, the Lords decided that Marc's love for humankind was a weakness, so they exiled him from the MB, and choosed another mortal to be the ruler of the MB; Rob Kamphausen.

Marc (still possesing his powers) created a parallel forum in the MB (named "50") to hide himself.

But, without knowing it, the MBL discovered that place, letting Rob know that Marc was still in the MB. Rob and Marc started a battle of epic proportions, that continues to this day...

Ironically enough, the original MBL (sort of) has returned just this week in the 2nd from the bottom forum at this board: Hero Headquarters v2.0

Hey, TTT, that's quite all right. The only person known for sure to exist is one's own self, according to the philosopher Descartes. Also, I use "hai-fu," or stealth techniques.

That's exactly the post I saw before, the one I mentioned to Not Mxy. So, the battle between the Moderator and Anti-Moderator resulted in the destruction of the entire universe? That was pretty selfish of us. You guys need to be more careful next time. Maybe do a background check before you grant somebody unlimited powers, especially Rob. Read his blog, for crying out loud! Is this who you would make a god? Well, at least most of you seemed to survive the crisis.

I have been following the new MBL adventures on this board. Great stuff! Hats off to all involved. You're plugging directly into pure Story and Entertainment. Who needs comic books?

Thanks for having a look at Northwood when it comes out. I'm up to five -- maybe six -- copies sold in 2004, plus another one in 2007. I break the 10-barrier, and I'm in Liefeld/Fighting American territory.

Marc

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
Thanks, Not Mxy. I hope it's worth the wait. Say, you're down there in Chupacabra country, right? Any sightings to report?

Every day.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
I have been following the new MBL adventures on this board. Great stuff! Hats off to all involved. You're plugging directly into pure Story and Entertainment. Who needs comic books?

See, that's why we wanted you to be DCMBs mod. Kaufampshen just didn't get it... [no no no]

Well, I'm going to pick up Northwood Saga. This will increase my Epic purchases to 1.

Me too! But I have a quiet shame.

...

I leaf through issues of Trouble at the shop to see if they contain any type of psuedo-porn. [who, me?]

That's nothing to be ashamed of - I kept Top Cow in business for a few years in the early 90s buying Marc Silvestri-drawn T&A.

Marc, I'll check out your book. I'm back in civilised lands in October, so I'll look for it then.

On the subject of novels, did you go through a literary agent? Most of them sound like utter bastards (not just the ones who want money up front, who I'll avoid). I've got a 250 page novel in the final stages of polishing up, which will be finished by year's end. There are guides of literary agents, but if you know of anyone who is particularly good, I'd be obliged....

I like elves.

thats what im sayin.....

ex-cell-ent...

quote:
Originally posted by I'm Not Mister Mxypltk:
Every day.

Chilean Chupacabra attacks family's ducks

quote:
Originally posted by Kristogar Velo:
See, that's why we wanted you to be DCMBs mod. Kaufampshen just didn't get it...

Aww, shucks, thanks, Kristogar. Did Rob kick you off? We were always under a lot of pressure from a certain multinational media conglomerate, so it may not have been his call.

quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
Well, I'm going to pick up Northwood Saga. This will increase my Epic purchases to 1.

Groovy! Thanks, Disco Steve. I take it you're not crazy about the other announced books. I'd be really interested to hear what you and anyone else might not like about them so I can try to give you something else.

quote:
Originally posted by woodstock:
Me too! But I have a quiet shame.

...

I leaf through issues of Trouble at the shop to see if they contain any type of psuedo-porn.

Thanks, woodstock. I should probably announce here that Northwood doesn't contain any porn. I'm surprised Epic picked it up. But maybe that's one thing you guys want? Porn?

quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
That's nothing to be ashamed of - I kept Top Cow in business for a few years in the early 90s buying Marc Silvestri-drawn T&A.

Marc, I'll check out your book. I'm back in civilised lands in October, so I'll look for it then.

On the subject of novels, did you go through a literary agent? Most of them sound like utter bastards (not just the ones who want money up front, who I'll avoid). I've got a 250 page novel in the final stages of polishing up, which will be finished by year's end. There are guides of literary agents, but if you know of anyone who is particularly good, I'd be obliged....

Dave, thank you kindly. Don't look too hard in October, though. I'm still waiting for final approval on the script. At this stage, the absolute soonest it'll come out is Jan or Feb 2004.

Re: agents, I did try my luck with fiction agents and didn't get very far. Those were the ones who told me that my ms. would make a good comic book. I do have an agent now, and he is actually a decent guy, but all he does is computer books, so I'm not sure if that helps you out. Definitely stay away from those who want any kind of money from you. Real agents work on percentage.

I may be in the position to meet some literary agents when things finally start moving at Marvel. I'll keep you posted.

Can you share any details about your book? I promise I'll only steal your idea if I really like it. And where are you now if not in civilized lands?

quote:
Originally posted by theory9:
I like elves.

quote:
Originally posted by britneyspearsatemyshorts:
thats what im sayin.....

Porn. Definitely porn.

Hmmmmmm... elf porn.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
Chilean Chupacabra attacks family's ducks

I was hungry...

quote:
Originally posted by I'm Not Mister Mxypltk:
I was hungry...

But that would mean you're really the... the... ?!

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
Groovy! Thanks, Disco Steve. I take it you're not crazy about the other announced books. I'd be really interested to hear what you and anyone else might not like about them so I can try to give you something else.

I think what Epic needs is more books written by people I vaguely know. :)

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:

quote:
Originally posted by I'm Not Mister Mxypltk:
I was hungry...
But that would mean you're really the... the... ?!

Careful there! I ate those ducks because they were on to me.

I'll check this out, but so far it's the only Epic book I intend to flip through, let alone actually buy.

Well, I gotta admit, I wasn't going to pick up Northwood, due to not being interested in this type of story. But Marc, you've been a helluva guy so far, and, well, my girlfriend likes the fantasy-type books, so I'll be picking it up, in hopes that you'll buy mine if it ever comes out (or you could buy the mini comics for sale on my website when my lazy ass puts up the paypal link).

I've been getting rejections for years now, and I enjoy them sometimes. But at this point I can't ever see a point where I'll stop trying to make comics, either on my own or if I can sell an idea.

And maybe someday you'll be famous enough to change your name to Mr. Somebody... [nyah hah]

quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
I think what Epic needs is more books written by people I vaguely know. :)

Fair enough! That's an easy requirement. I don't even have to rethink my approach.

quote:
Originally posted by I'm Not Mister Mxypltk:
Careful there! I ate those ducks because they were on to me.

But, Not Mxy, I have it on good authority that the Chupacabra is actually Jennifer Lopez. Check it out:

"What's unique about the Chupacabra is that ... it's sort of like Jennifer Lopez, kind of cross-cultural."

Read the full article

So far, all I know is that you're not Mr. Mxypltk, and I'm basically taking you on your word about that one. You may very well be Jennifer Lopez. In light of the facts, I think we deserve an explanation.

quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
I'll check this out, but so far it's the only Epic book I intend to flip through, let alone actually buy.

Animalman, you're giving me a chance, and that's all I ask. Well, also this: What about the other Epic books turns you off?

quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Nobody:
Well, I gotta admit, I wasn't going to pick up Northwood, due to not being interested in this type of story. But Marc, you've been a helluva guy so far, and, well, my girlfriend likes the fantasy-type books, so I'll be picking it up, in hopes that you'll buy mine if it ever comes out (or you could buy the mini comics for sale on my website when my lazy ass puts up the paypal link).

Thanks, Mr. Nobody. Your girlfriend'll love it. I'll be happy to check your books out.

quote:
I've been getting rejections for years now, and I enjoy them sometimes. But at this point I can't ever see a point where I'll stop trying to make comics, either on my own or if I can sell an idea.

I think that's the right approach. Being a writer and being a published writer are two completely different things. The one doesn't have anything to do with the other. If you can keep writing in spite of the self-doubting mental garbage that inevitably comes with stupid rejection letters, you've crossed an important threshold.

Well, to be frank, the other Epic books sounded terrible to me.

If I was going to name a writer I thought was least capable of writing a romance book, it would probably be Mark Millar. If I was going to name an artist(one that does interior work) least likely to attract female readers with his work, it would probably be Terry Dodson, a classic cheesecake T n' A artist. This combination makes Trouble a very hard sell, and judging from the reviews so far, my initial reaction was correct.

The other titles are all by creators I've never heard of, and, these days, the creators are what capture my interest. Without a big name creator, the idea or concept has to be really intriguing to catch my attention. So far, the little tidbits I've seen on the premise of the stories haven't done that.

Taken from here:

-Crimson Dynamo - by John Jackson Miller (w) and Steve Ellis (p) - a Marvel-Universe superhero series about a Russian student who finds and uses the old Soviet Crimson Dynamo armor - first issue: 4 September 2003

Not really a Crimson Dynamo fan. Sounds like fanfic revamping, to me. The art also didn't do much for me.

-Gun Theory - by Daniel Way (w) and Jon Proctor (p) - a thriller about a contract killer who makes the mistake of falling in love (originally produced as a graphic novel) - first issue (of 4): 17 September 20

Kind of overdone storyline. If the preview art looked really cool I might give it a shot(haven't seen anything on it, yet).

-Phantom Jack (previously Nowhere Man) - by Mike SanGiacomo (w) and Mitch Breitweiser (p) - a character-focused superhero series about a journalist who can turn invisible - first issue (of 5): January 2004

This was probably the most interesting sounding, but there's not really enough to sway me.

-Strange Magic - by Jason Henderson (w) and Greg Scott (p) - a Marvel-Universe character-focused series about a 17-year-old girl with magical abilities, living in New Orleans - first issue: Winter 2004

Eh, magic child prodigy is also overdone. The fantasy genre can either be really good or really, really bad, depending on the writer.

-Young Ancient One - by Rob Worley (w) and Andy Kuhn (p) - a Marvel-Universe light-hearted martial arts story about Dr. Strange's mentor "Ancient One", when he was young - first issue (of 3): not yet announced

Comical story about Dr. Strange's mentor. No thanks.

-unknown title - by *Heath Amodio (w) - a Marvel-Universe story exploring Spider-Man's origin and life story... if Uncle Ben had not been murdered - first issue (of 1): not yet announced

I could have sworn this was already done.....

-unknown title - by Tony Salmons (w&p) - a Marvel-Universe story starring the original line-up of the Avengers - first issue (of 3): not yet announced

This I know has been done. Suprised Marvel would allow an unknown to use the Avengers like this.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
But, Not Mxy, I have it on good authority that the Chupacabra is actually Jennifer Lopez. Check it out:

"What's unique about the Chupacabra is that ... it's sort of like Jennifer Lopez, kind of cross-cultural."

Read the full article

So far, all I know is that you're not Mr. Mxypltk, and I'm basically taking you on your word about that one. You may very well be Jennifer Lopez. In light of the facts, I think we deserve an explanation.

I can't be Jennifer Lopez. We alredy stablished in another thread that I'm Britney Spears. I can only be one pop singer at the time.

quote:

Dave, thank you kindly. Don't look too hard in October, though. I'm still waiting for final approval on the script. At this stage, the absolute soonest it'll come out is Jan or Feb 2004.

Re: agents, I did try my luck with fiction agents and didn't get very far. Those were the ones who told me that my ms. would make a good comic book. I do have an agent now, and he is actually a decent guy, but all he does is computer books, so I'm not sure if that helps you out. Definitely stay away from those who want any kind of money from you. Real agents work on percentage.

Yeah, the publishers I know in my job have told me that.

quote:

I may be in the position to meet some literary agents when things finally start moving at Marvel. I'll keep you posted.

Many thanks. As I said, I can get a list of names out of an agent's directory and send them query letters, but it wold be good to have an inside opinion on even a few of them. My brothers-in-law have been struggling pop artists for many years, and they have few good things to say about agents. I'd like to avoid a bad one.

quote:

Can you share any details about your book? I promise I'll only steal your idea if I really like it. And where are you now if not in civilized lands?

I am writing two books. One is a book on entertainment law in Hong Kong. I didn't have to go through an agent to get that contract - I was approached directly by the commissioning editor of Sweet & Maxwell, a publisher of law books. This one has become bogged down, primarily due to a lack of enthusiasm as I am now leaving Hong Kong (returning to the "civilised lands" of Australia), and so there seems little point for me to write a book about Hong Kong law. Still, I will finish it - its just a question of when.

The other book is a fiction book, which is, oddly enough, about a lawyer in Hong Kong. By way of reassurance that the book is not autobiographical, the main character is female, and is partly inspired by a Law Society of Western Australia investigation into why women are leaving the legal profession en masse. It is an escapism story, recounted as a monologue by the main character while she is being chatted up by a drunk college student while they are both on holiday in Portugal. The story evolves into dire consequences for some of the characters. Its about 300 pages long, and has the potential for a sequel. I'm presently going through and editing the superfluous or poorly written (usually too dry) bits.

I've taken a long time to write it because my training as a lawyer compells me to examine every sentence to make sure it doesn't read poorly. Also, a lot of it was handwritten on my morning and evening ferry journey, and my handwriting often reflects the vigour of the ride. If there are big waves in Hong Kong waters, and my pen goes all over the place, it makes it difficult to decypher later. :)

where did the name come from? ("northwood saga," not "marc")

and whats the current schedule? when do you find out about artists and such? will you actually meet and/or work (directly) with the artist when the time comes?

quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
Well, to be frank, the other Epic books sounded terrible to me. ...

Animalman, thanks for the detailed feedback. I'm not sure how Northwood will stack against the other books, but I'm definitely not trying to court the kewl audience.

quote:
Originally posted by I'm Not Mister Mxypltk:
I can't be Jennifer Lopez. We alredy stablished in another thread that I'm Britney Spears. I can only be one pop singer at the time.

Good enough for me. Glad that's cleared up. Stay away from my ducks.

quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
I am writing two books. One is a book on entertainment law in Hong Kong. I didn't have to go through an agent to get that contract - I was approached directly by the commissioning editor of Sweet & Maxwell, a publisher of law books. This one has become bogged down, primarily due to a lack of enthusiasm as I am now leaving Hong Kong (returning to the "civilised lands" of Australia), and so there seems little point for me to write a book about Hong Kong law. Still, I will finish it - its just a question of when.

Dave, you have the scent of a man who has already spent his advance. From a purely layman's point of view, it does seem like the most entertaining things in Hong Kong have nothing to do with law. I hope the finishing up goes smoothly.

quote:
The other book is a fiction book, which is, oddly enough, about a lawyer in Hong Kong. By way of reassurance that the book is not autobiographical, the main character is female, and is partly inspired by a Law Society of Western Australia investigation into why women are leaving the legal profession en masse. It is an escapism story, recounted as a monologue by the main character while she is being chatted up by a drunk college student while they are both on holiday in Portugal. The story evolves into dire consequences for some of the characters. Its about 300 pages long, and has the potential for a sequel.

Sounds interesting and vaguely sociopolitical. I'm a great fan of the literature of the subversive.

quote:
I'm presently going through and editing the superfluous or poorly written (usually too dry) bits. ...

So the entire manuscript is already written? That's excellent. Finishing is the hardest part. Have any non-lawyers read it yet?

quote:
My brothers-in-law have been struggling pop artists for many years, and they have few good things to say about agents. I'd like to avoid a bad one.

A lawyer complaining about agents...now I've heard everything. :)

Hey, Rob!

quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
where did the name come from? ("northwood saga," not "marc")

It was just something I came up with. I liked the sound of it.

Purely by accident and after the fact, I learned about this thing called Operation: Northwoods, which was evidently a real project by the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff in the early 1960s to find an excuse to go to war with Cuba, including but not limited to conducting acts of terror against U.S. citizens and maybe also assassinating a sitting president. If I had called the book "Water's Gate Saga," I couldn't be happier, because the subtext of the book is VERY political, but I think I've hidden my tracks pretty well. At the risk of getting myself hauled off to Guantanamo, I think I can share that the main bad guy and his cronies are shades of the last couple U.S. administrations.

My hope is that people googling for Northwood wind up finding links to Project: Northwoods, since evidently we can't rely on our national media to do their job; but, as I say, this is just a happy accident.

quote:
and whats the current schedule? when do you find out about artists and such? will you actually meet and/or work (directly) with the artist when the time comes?

Alas, there is no schedule yet. Epic seems to be taking its time. In the interim, I'm looking at some pencils, so if anyone is interested in drawing elves and dwarfs, they should let me know sooner rather than later.

I'll work directly with the artists (and, sure, we could meet up if we live close enough), I'll pick them myself from a pool of preapproved candidates or help get unapproved folks approved, and in fact I'll be their boss. The writer acts as writer/editor on Epic books. I'm planning on letting the artists have a lot of control. I have a few suggestions for things that need to be included for the sake of the story, but other than that I'm going to rely on the artists to design the world.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
Purely by accident and after the fact, I learned about this thing called Operation: Northwoods

yessir, thats what made me ask!

pretty cool hearing you have all that control over the art realm. this epic deal sounds better and better for you!

if you were comic book ruler of the world, and had your pick of any existing artist, who do you think would best fit what you have dreamed up in your head? who would you love to let run wild with the pencils? (always remembering to hold them point-down, of course)

I like hidden subtexts. I usually don't notice them until the third reading or so, and I like that. So, the bright side of your book taking a shitload of time to get to Chile (like every other american comic) is that maybe by then I won't remember the whole Operation Northwood parallel.

I don't like hidden subtexts, I have enough trouble with obvious ones....

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
Dave, you have the scent of a man who has already spent his advance. From a purely layman's point of view, it does seem like the most entertaining things in Hong Kong have nothing to do with law. I hope the finishing up goes smoothly.

Advance!? Academic texts rarely get advances. If I had an advance I'd probably be more motivated (by guilt).

quote:

quote:
The other book is a fiction book, which is, oddly enough, about a lawyer in Hong Kong. By way of reassurance that the book is not autobiographical, the main character is female, and is partly inspired by a Law Society of Western Australia investigation into why women are leaving the legal profession en masse. It is an escapism story, recounted as a monologue by the main character while she is being chatted up by a drunk college student while they are both on holiday in Portugal. The story evolves into dire consequences for some of the characters. Its about 300 pages long, and has the potential for a sequel.
Sounds interesting and vaguely sociopolitical. I'm a great fan of the literature of the subversive.

Many litigation lawyers are closet subversives by nature - we test the limits of the law. Whereas commercial lawyers are firmly within the establishment. Any subversion in the story is firmly masked by the focus on the sheer bastardry of the profession. It takes an insider to write about the tricks.

quote:

quote:
I'm presently going through and editing the superfluous or poorly written (usually too dry) bits. ...
So the entire manuscript is already written? That's excellent. Finishing is the hardest part. Have any non-lawyers read it yet?

Well, its written, just not typed. So its as good as incomplete.

I keep threatening to make my wife read it, but she hates what she's read so far. But she's an accountant, so, y'know... >shrugs<

She always repeats me a joke:

Q: What is the difference between lawyers and accountants?
A: Accountants know they're boring.

With that in mind, and since this thread is about you, and not me, what made you decide to write fantasy? Isn't it the most difficult genre to write, because you can't draw upon your own experiences, and because imaginations can run right off the rails?

quote:

quote:
My brothers-in-law have been struggling pop artists for many years, and they have few good things to say about agents. I'd like to avoid a bad one.
A lawyer complaining about agents...now I've heard everything. :)

LOL
....hey, wait a minute...

quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
-unknown title - by Tony Salmons (w&p) - a Marvel-Universe story starring the original line-up of the Avengers - first issue (of 3): not yet announced

This I know has been done. Suprised Marvel would allow an unknown to use the Avengers like this.

I'm thinking it might be the original 1950s Avengers... You know, the ones that fought the Yellow Claw or something.

That would suck, because that means I've been beaten to it. Shit.

Phantom Jack intrigues me only because I've been reading the columns on the production of it on Newsarama.

quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
yessir, thats what made me ask!

Rob, I didn't realize you were secretly a left-wing radical! I thought you were a Bush booster, FOX News watcher, and Ann Coulter wet-dreamer. Workers of the world unite and go to robkamphausen.com!

quote:
pretty cool hearing you have all that control over the art realm. this epic deal sounds better and better for you!

I do have some control over the process, so, yeah, that aspect is nice. I have no control over the schedule, which is making me a better person, because I'm learning about patience. I've been ready to get moving with this book since July.

quote:
if you were comic book ruler of the world, and had your pick of any existing artist, who do you think would best fit what you have dreamed up in your head? who would you love to let run wild with the pencils? (always remembering to hold them point-down, of course)

When I was a kid I had this European fantasy comic. I guess you'd call it a graphic novel, because it was printed on good paper, and it had trade paperback binding, but this was before graphic novels were everywhere. Mid 1980s, I guess. It wasn't marketed as a graphic novel. Anyway, I don't have this comic anymore. I don't remember the name of it. I don't remember most of the story. I don't remember the artist's name, and I can only vaguely see the art in my head. But from what I remember, that's the artist I'd want on the book. The art was beautiful. The closest equivalent I can think of in terms of style is Frazetta/Wrightson on Swamp Thing, yet the linework was not quite as slick and more subtly textured. Plus the character designs were fantastic. The elf-like characters had a wild, barely civilized quality, completely unlike the cultured elves that you get in Tolkien and the mildly rustic elves you find in D&D. You could totally picture these things dancing in a ring like the heathens they are under the light of the moon.

I got the impression that the book was pretty famous in Europe. I don't think it was a series. Just a one-shot graphic album in trade paperback format. And a hobbitlike character was the hero, and I think the story had something to do with a magic sword. And that's all I have to go on. If anyone knows what comic this might be, please let me know!

quote:
Originally posted by I'm Not Mister Mxypltk:
I like hidden subtexts. I usually don't notice them until the third reading or so, and I like that. So, the bright side of your book taking a shitload of time to get to Chile (like every other american comic) is that maybe by then I won't remember the whole Operation Northwood parallel.

Actually, Chile might be a good place for me to hide once the government figures out I've been distributing subversive comic books.

quote:
Originally posted by britneyspearsatemyshorts:
I don't like hidden subtexts, I have enough trouble with obvious ones....

Trust me, it ain't literature, so no worries there. Plus, the pictures will be awesome!

quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
With that in mind, and since this thread is about you, and not me, what made you decide to write fantasy? Isn't it the most difficult genre to write, because you can't draw upon your own experiences, and because imaginations can run right off the rails?

Why fantasy? OK, two reasons...(1) I like the genre, and I thought I could contribute something to it. (2) I wanted to pick a popular genre that hasn't been done to death in comic books yet. The handful of fantasy comics that exist are in the mold of either Conan the Barbarian, you know, sword and sorcery, or Arthurian legend, knights-in-shining-armor/Merlin-the-magician stuff, whereas I swiped most of my ideas from Tolkien and Norse sagas. I wanted to give comic readers something different at least, if not entirely original.

I agree that good fantasy runs in a narrow channel. It goes too light, and you get happy short people with funny ways and cute customs dancing among the flowers of Diddley Dale in Eternal Spring and playing harps and pan flutes and lyres and frustrating the plans of the evil Snow Wizard and his Magic Mirror of Endless Winter. Or it goes too heavy, and you can't enjoy the story without understanding the intricacies of language, history, and custom in the Seven Wide Lands of Elderamontolloch (known originally as Canterdallionespandalderon, but only in the Fifth Age of Fire, in those provinces where the Grand Duke of Sard held sway). Personally I can't stand either extreme. Both have the scent of unfertile imagination. The best fantasy is the flowering of a really potent imagination, and it is a thing of rare beauty.

I'm not sure I agree that you can't draw from your own experiences when you write fantasy. I think you have to do this, or else you'll get Diddley Dale or the Fifth Age of Fire. Granted, I've never seen an elf. But I see a strain of elfishness -- that slightly naughty, undominated, yet good-natured spirit -- every time I read these boards (and that's a high compliment, by the way). J.R.R. Tolkien would walk by a polluted river or an industrial dump site in the middle of his beloved English countryside, and then he'd go back to his study and write about orcs. When the fantasy elements function as symbols to some degree, you get an extremely high and pure level of relevancy. In fact, good fantasy works precisely like a dream. In a dream, the unconscious mind throws up images and events that relate to the real goings-on of your waking life. A good fantasy writer does the same thing.

quote:
I'm thinking it might be the original 1950s Avengers... You know, the ones that fought the Yellow Claw or something.

That would suck, because that means I've been beaten to it. Shit.

Phantom Jack intrigues me only because I've been reading the columns on the production of it on Newsarama.

You mean the 3-D Man/Venus/Marvel Boy lineup? That's an interesting idea. I don't know anything about the Avengers proposal, so I can't say for sure.

There's not much for me to report on the process front like with the Phantom Jack articles, but I'll be happy to give you guys your own private Phantom Jack-style updates as they come up, if that's what you want.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
When I was a kid I had this European fantasy comic. I guess you'd call it a graphic novel, because it was printed on good paper, and it had trade paperback binding, but this was before graphic novels were everywhere. Mid 1980s, I guess. It wasn't marketed as a graphic novel. Anyway, I don't have this comic anymore. I don't remember the name of it. I don't remember most of the story. I don't remember the artist's name, and I can only vaguely see the art in my head. But from what I remember, that's the artist I'd want on the book. The art was beautiful. The closest equivalent I can think of in terms of style is Frazetta/Wrightson on Swamp Thing, yet the linework was not quite as slick and more subtly textured. Plus the character designs were fantastic. The elf-like characters had a wild, barely civilized quality, completely unlike the cultured elves that you get in Tolkien and the mildly rustic elves you find in D&D. You could totally picture these things dancing in a ring like the heathens they are under the light of the moon.

I got the impression that the book was pretty famous in Europe. I don't think it was a series. Just a one-shot graphic album in trade paperback format. And a hobbitlike character was the hero, and I think the story had something to do with a magic sword. And that's all I have to go on. If anyone knows what comic this might be, please let me know!

Does "Thorgal" ring a bell? I haven't read it, but I've seen advertising in old spanish comics.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
Actually, Chile might be a good place for me to hide once the government figures out I've been distributing subversive comic books.

Yeah... we've been distributing subversive wine and grapes for decades.

I like Chilean wine.

quote:

I'm not sure I agree that you can't draw from your own experiences when you write fantasy. I think you have to do this, or else you'll get Diddley Dale or the Fifth Age of Fire. Granted, I've never seen an elf. But I see a strain of elfishness -- that slightly naughty, undominated, yet good-natured spirit -- every time I read these boards (and that's a high compliment, by the way).

I think the correct term is actually "troll", not "elf". :)

I see what you mean about writing fantasy, though.

Why a c instead of a k?

quote:
Originally posted by britneyspearsatemyshorts:
Why a c instead of a k?

Vince MacMahon claimed ownership of the name Mark Campbell, so a name change was in order.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
You mean the 3-D Man/Venus/Marvel Boy lineup? That's an interesting idea. I don't know anything about the Avengers proposal, so I can't say for sure.

I saw it as a 1950s spy thriller with superheroes taking on the Commies. Or somesuch.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
There's not much for me to report on the process front like with the Phantom Jack articles, but I'll be happy to give you guys your own private Phantom Jack-style updates as they come up, if that's what you want.

Whatever you have to share would be great.

quote:
Originally posted by I'm Not Mister Mxypltk:
Does "Thorgal" ring a bell? I haven't read it, but I've seen advertising in old spanish comics.

No, it wasn't Thorgal, but the art style was similar from what I remember. Not quite as Frazetta, though.

quote:
Yeah... we've been distributing subversive wine and grapes for decades.

Hey, by the way, Happy Chilean Sept 11! I just wanted to let you know that I didn't have anything to do with toppling your government personally.

quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
I think the correct term is actually "troll", not "elf". :)

Perfect example.

quote:
Originally posted by britneyspearsatemyshorts:
Why a c instead of a k?

Believe it or not, I know the real answer to that one...

quote:
Originally posted by thedoctor:
Vince MacMahon claimed ownership of the name Mark Campbell, so a name change was in order.

Close, thedoctor. My actual first name is Marc with a C. The ARC comes from my dad's initials. Instead of naming me Arthur Russell Campbell the Fourth, they stuck the ARC in my first name. I am very grateful for this.

If I had been a girl, my name was going to be Kathleen.

There are a lot of Marc Campbells out there, by the way. The most famous is the lead singer in the Nails. That's who owns marccampbell.com.

So don't go believing Rob if he tells you that my real name is Marcus. One of my old interns at DC used to think this. It might have been Rob, but I forget. I tried to set him straight, but you know how THAT goes.

quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
I saw it as a 1950s spy thriller with superheroes taking on the Commies. Or somesuch.

I really want them to come out with Commie Infiltrator and Commie Medic HeroClix. I think it would be in good fun. Do you think WizKids'll go for it?

quote:
Whatever you have to share would be great.

Don't know if you saw this, but here's what I posted on ComiX-Fan about the first round of revisions...

quote:
Telltale, this is how it has worked for me so far. I got some general comments from Teresa about what they liked about the script, along with a few very specific suggestions for ways to improve it. The input was extremely helpful.

For instance -- Teresa [Focarile, Associate Editor at Epic] suggested that I pick up the main thread of the story at the beginning of the script. Obvious, right? I had originally started with some exposition about the world, and then I built the first encounter up slowly. The crucial moment didn't come until page 6. Now, to me, the writer, the beginning of the story came exactly where I had it originally. Teresa honed in on the REAL beginning of the story. Moving some of the exposition to the background not only improved the pacing, but it also freed up some pages for more character development. All this from one simple comment. Now that's what I call good editorial.

So, I'm happy to report that there was no micromanagement, hand-holding, or hijacking. Just solid editorial input.

I'm guessing that the script will go back and forth a couple more times now. If Epic's OK with my fixes to the structure, I'll probably get feedback on specific scenes.

...and that's exactly where the project stands at this point. Teresa Focarile at Epic is supposed to be getting back to me this week with comments on my revised script.

Well, there is something else. I'm not sure if I should bring it up, but, here goes.

Outside intelligences may be trying to write this comic book.

Allow me to explain.

One of the characters in the first issue is an elf-witch named Ingalder. I thought I had come up with the name myself. A couple weeks later, I was doing some research, and I found out that one of the old Anglo-Saxon magical runes was called Ing, which stands for an unexpected gift from the gods. This is exactly Ingalder's role in the story.

OK, odd coincidence. So a few days later I'm working on a three-parter, just in case I get to do more issues. The main character's name is Udor. Again, I'm thinking that I just dreamed up this name. It sounds vaguely Nordic/Anglo-Saxon. I googled it just to see what would happen, and it turns out that "udor" is supposed to be the elf word for "water," according to an old English folk tale. ("Udor" also means "water" in Greek, interestingly enough.) In my story, Udor first meets her elf lover by the banks of a river. Hmm...

So now I'm intrigued. I try googling for the bad guy in the first issue, name of Lother. He's the brother of the king. Lother turns up as Odin's brother, and Odin, of course, is the king of the Norse gods.

All by coincidence. Freaky, huh? The only possible scientific explanation is that ultraterrestrial entities want to see their names in print.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
So don't go believing Rob if he tells you that my real name is Marcus. One of my old interns at DC used to think this. It might have been Rob, but I forget. I tried to set him straight, but you know how THAT goes.

Your right. Rob and straight just don't mix.

Sounds like a good book so far. I'll check it out when Epic gets around to publishing it. Been trying to work out an idea myself. I think this helps me in that i can now know what to expect from Epic and a little about what might interest them. I guess the Southwood Saga might have a chance afterall. [wink]

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
Hey, by the way, Happy Chilean Sept 11!

Yes, very happy... [eh... i dunno... ]

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
I just wanted to let you know that I didn't have anything to do with toppling your government personally.

No, but you're still american so you must perish!

quote:
Originally posted by thedoctor:
Your right. Rob and straight just don't mix.

OK, good, I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed this.

quote:

Sounds like a good book so far. I'll check it out when Epic gets around to publishing it. Been trying to work out an idea myself. I think this helps me in that i can now know what to expect from Epic and a little about what might interest them. I guess the Southwood Saga might have a chance afterall.

YE$! Thanks for the support. I must be up to about 20 copies sold now. I don't even have "Ultimate" in the title.

I'm glad you're finding these posts useful. That's the name of the game. Good luck on your idea.

This might be a good time for the Creator-Owned Speech. I've heard a lot about Marvel backing away from creator-owned projects. I have no idea if this is true, but it seems to me like it probably is. Which means that Epic is eventually going to ask me to sign away all rights to Northwood. I haven't decided what I'm going to do about this yet -- I guess it will depend on what they're offering. I'd feel better about it if I knew I was getting more than one issue. Plus, if Marvel owns the concept, they might be more willing to promote the book, since they have more of a vested interest in its success. But my inner artiste throws tantrums at the thought of losing ownership. If Northwood tanks at Marvel, I couldn't take it anywhere else, and I wouldn't be free to write a Northwood prose novel, which I'm 11,000 words into as we speak. I could find myself in a situation where I have to license back my own property.

The first thing Teresa at Epic told me was that she liked the genre of my pitch. Not that I had done it particularly well -- she didn't say one way or the other -- just that she liked the pointy ears instead of tights. So, to Epic's credit, they are looking for new ideas or at least new directions. At the same time, they're discouraging new ideas because they can't offer the same creative guarantees that a novelist has, for instance. Given all this, maybe the pitch with the best chance of success is one that takes an existing Marvel character into a non-superhero genre.

When I submitted to Epic, I made sure to send them an idea that I'd be willing to give away under the right circumstances. It's probably worth thinking about if you want to submit an original concept. Could you live with Marvel owning it?

One last thought on the subject. Good ideas are cheap. Legally, they're worthless. (Correct me if I'm wrong here, RKMB Dave.) So selling out your idea to Marvel isn't necessarily evil. Personally, I have a lot of ideas. I could be willing to part with one in exchange for some practice and exposure.

Southwood Saga. Very clever. You'll be hearing from my lawyer (RKMB's Dave) shortly.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:

quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
I saw it as a 1950s spy thriller with superheroes taking on the Commies. Or somesuch.
I really want them to come out with Commie Infiltrator and Commie Medic HeroClix. I think it would be in good fun. Do you think WizKids'll go for it?

If I were running WizKids, there would be an entire Cold War version, compatable with every other version. So you can have Superman wail on Stalin and other famous Russian politcal figures.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
Southwood Saga. Very clever. You'll be hearing from my lawyer (RKMB's Dave) shortly.

No....no.... It's totally different. I don't have elves. I have.... um...... um...... sevles. Yeah, that's the ticket.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:

quote:
Originally posted by thedoctor:
Your right. Rob and straight just don't mix.
OK, good, I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed this.

One has to decide which is funnier... the LLance picture or this one.

quote:
Originally posted by I'm Not Mister Mxypltk:
No, but you're still american so you must perish!

One of these days, we're going to pee in the wrong backyard. Just you watch.

quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
If I were running WizKids, there would be an entire Cold War version, compatable with every other version. So you can have Superman wail on Stalin and other famous Russian politcal figures.

Which begs the question...what did Stan Lee's commies look like?!

quote:
Originally posted by thedoctor:

No....no.... It's totally different. I don't have elves. I have.... um...... um...... sevles. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Ah, don't sweat it. The Tolkien estate will probably be banging on my door before all is through, and then they can sue both of us.

***

I was thinking about what I said the other day about superheroes in a non-superhero genre. And then my package of weekly comics comes, and in it is Aquaman.

Aquaman. A superhero in a non-superhero genre. The guy with the water hand might as well be another character entirely. From whence comes this nonsense? I don't think I'm overstating my position if I say I dislike the new Aquaman with a special intensity. Shame on me for buying it.

I'd probably be really open to the new direction if it was a new character. A quasi-Celtic mystical water-guy is generally spot on with my tastes. But the Aquaman label does Aquaman a disservice. It doesn't bring anything to the premise of the story, either, other than extra sales from guys like me who are expecting an Aquaman yarn. If I look at the germ of the Aquaman character, I don't see how this particular new direction grows out of it, unlike the Peter David revamp, which rung more true, even if I didn't always like where it went.

Any other Aquaman readers out there? How do you feel about the new direction? Would Epic be wise to put out a bunch of books featuring Marvel properties attached to brand new and tangentially relevant concepts?

That's it. I'm renaming Northwood Saga to Ultimate Dark Ages Sub-Mariner. Pointy ears is the link.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:

Which begs the question...what did Stan Lee's commies look like?!

Big bear-like caricatures, much like the yellow-skinned vampiric Japanese soldiers of the 1940s Marvel comics. With a gun and whiskey bottle in each hand, looking really tiny due to the great body size.

Oh, yeah, that's right! Sort of like Siberian Castro. We need HeroClix of these.

quote:
One last thought on the subject. Good ideas are cheap. Legally, they're worthless. (Correct me if I'm wrong here, RKMB Dave.)

"Good ideas are legally worthless" does not compute. Ideas have to be reduced to a material form before they are capable of commercial exploitation and enforcement, at which point that can be valued. If that's what you meant (just nod yes), then I agree.

Intellectual property is my field, you see, so I could hardly be seen to go on record and say "good ideas are worthless".

I think what you actually mean is that "good ideas are a dime a dozen", and you're willing to let Marvel own one if it gives you the opportunity to run with some others.

Which is, re-reading your post, exactly what you are getting at.

quote:

So selling out your idea to Marvel isn't necessarily evil. Personally, I have a lot of ideas. I could be willing to part with one in exchange for some practice and exposure.

Southwood Saga. Very clever. You'll be hearing from my lawyer (RKMB's Dave) shortly.

I require money up front.

On your Aquaman point: I couldn't agree more, but understand the whys of it. You have a good concept, say, and want to use it. Your concept is of an Arthurian Celtic do-gooder, powered by the Lady of the Lake. But in this market, who is going to buy such a concept? (Fathom is pretty similar, but that character relies upon very pretty cheesecake art to sell.) So you hitch your wagon to recognition and continuity. Some people will buy an Aquaman comic no matter what: merge your new Arthurian concept to Aquaman, and you've got name recognition which people will buy. If the linked concept is good, then the title will sell. But the price of that is abandoning your rights in the concept: DC own it because it is now an adapted version of Aquaduct.

I'm sure Peter David is doing the same thing with Fallen Angel for exactly the same reason. The Supergirl afficianados will buy it for the hints of Supergirl's existence.

Marvel are doing the same thing with Crimson Dynamo: some kids find some kick-arse dangerous armour. Who would buy this, save for its integration into the Marvel mythos?

And even Vertigo do this: many of its titles are adaptions of pre-existing properties. Ennis's The Unknown Soldier was a fine story, but it didn't need to be about the bandaged guy from silly WW2 comics. In the same vein, I see Vertigo have recently revamped The Losers, Sgt Rock, and Human Target. They are trying to capitalise upon the existing name recognition and goodwill in an otherwise languid or not-quite forgotten concept.

Mark, I think you are lucky that Epic is willing to try something different (in the same way Vertigo is at DC), otherwise I'm sure your fantasy story would have needed Conan, Ka-zar, or, yes, even Ultimate Dark Ages Submariner to sell.

i had a similar outlook here on how batman beyond did the "new concept, old character" thing. yadda yadda.

....sure Speedy surrre.....

quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
Good ideas are legally worthless" does not compute. Ideas have to be reduced to a material form before they are capable of commercial exploitation and enforcement, at which point that can be valued. If that's what you meant (just nod yes), then I agree.

Nodding yes.

quote:
I think what you actually mean is that "good ideas are a dime a dozen"

Actually closer to your first explanation with some of that mixed in.

quote:
I require money up front.

Oh, all right. Here you go: $$$$$$

quote:
Mark, I think you are lucky that Epic is willing to try something different (in the same way Vertigo is at DC), otherwise I'm sure your fantasy story would have needed Conan, Ka-zar, or, yes, even Ultimate Dark Ages Submariner to sell.

I do feel extremely fortunate, and I'm managing my expectations of sales for exactly the reasons you brought up. It'll be interesting to see how and if Marvel moves the idea toward the Marvel Universe if they end up owning the Northwood. Although...I'm having a hard time seeing a red-cape-wearing Thor fly by the treeline.

Thanks, Dave, for your diverse thoughts. And free legal advice.

quote:
Originally posted by britneyspearsatemyshorts:
....sure Speedy surrre.....

Speedy?! Why didn't I think of that one? From this moment forward, I will refer to Rob as Speedy. Rob = Speedy. Thanks, britneyspears.

cool. i'm an addict!

marc, if there was gonna be some sorta weird, main stream cross over ... what existing marvel character would you love to have the opportunity to "kidnap" and live in your imaginary world?

...also, what marvel charater would you like to write into your comic?

Speedy, you're taking all the fun out of it if you actually like being called Speedy. Foiled again by Kamphausen! Will my day ever come?

Onto your questions, let me see... I guess I could take a stab at folding in the Norse mythos characters, but I'd have to use them sparingly and in some altered form. That, or I'd have to revise my idea of the Northwood. It would take a little banging around, but I think it could be done.

Can any Marvel history people get me up to speed on when Atlantis sunk in the M.U.? Is it before or after 800 A.D.? Because I might be able to do something with a Namor-type character in the Northwood without as much conceptual rezoning (and reasoning).

So, which Marvel characters do I want to kidnap into my world? Zero, I guess. I'm stingy, and I want to use my own toys. But which Marvel characters would I like to play around with some day in some other book, the gods willing? That question has two clear answers.

Spider-Man and Sub-Mariner.

They'll never let me do Spider-Man, because I'd age him right back up to his 1980s levels, kill off Norman Osborn, and bring back Peter and MJ's baby.

I'd infuse a bit of the old "Imperius Rex" into Subby and get him into wars with the surface world. Again, a long shot, given that Namor is the next big cinema project and not likely to be entrusted to whats-his-name who writes about elves.

So my timing for Marvel Universe projects is characteristically bad. If I do wind up on Thor some day down the road, I think I'd kick it off with a storyline that none of the gods in the Marvel Universe are really the gods of myth -- they just think they are.

'Nuff said.

Say, Speedy, who in the M.U. would YOU like to write about? And don't answer Batman.

Great, now I'm a Nazi.

I am personally amused with Rob's new nickname.

Warren Ellis in his book Come in Alone is critical of Walt Simonson's work on New Gods for DC a few years back. He says that Simonson is a clearly talented individual who is devoting a lot of creative energy into a corporate franchise, one which he asserts should have been laid to rest a long time ago. Ellis shakes his head at the idea that Simonson feels compelled to "service a trade mark" rather than pursue something novel and original.

I have a lot of sympathy with this view, probably because I think that a lot of the problem with comics comes from the kneejerk compulsion to buy a publication branded with a character concept. Those people who buy anything with an "X" on the cover aren't helping things. As Ellis points out, Frank Miller's excellent 300 for Dark Horse Comics gets polite nods of approval, but fanboys went crazy when he announced he'd be doing a sequel for DKR.

I have to respect someone who decides to push their own concept rather than tout an often hackneyed character owned by a major publisher. Not only are they being commerically brave, but they're broadening comics horizons and doing the industry a great service.

which one is speedy now? arsenal?

heh. arse.

so, which marvel character would i like to dest... write? well...

i only really like wolverine and magneto. i hate thor-speak. daredevil is not a superhero. hulk is uninteresting. cap'n america... maybe. mebbe spider-man?

i guess i really just don't know enough about the marvel universe

quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:

i guess i really just don't know enough about the marvel universe

You must buy every marvel masterwork offered...Marvel up to the early 80's is good stuff.

you can buy comics now??

quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
which one is speedy now? arsenal?

heh. arse.

so, which marvel character would i like to dest... write? well...

i only really like wolverine and magneto. i hate thor-speak. daredevil is not a superhero. hulk is uninteresting. cap'n america... maybe. mebbe spider-man?

i guess i really just don't know enough about the marvel universe

Yep, Speedy is Arsenal. Evidently you don't know enough about the DC Universe, either. This from the guy who's been employed by DC longer than Bob Shreck.

Speedy, you're no arse. But you used to be my sidekick, and I'll never let you live it down. You will never get the cool Arsenal name. Never. It'll do you some good.

quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
daredevil is not a superhero.

Rob, you should know by now that all lawyers are superheroes.

Thus speaks Davedevil!

quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
you can buy comics now??

Marvel Comics must be purchased. Those hardcovers are $35.00 a pop on ebay too...$50.00 normally..

well worth it though....

quote:
Originally posted by Dave:

quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
daredevil is not a superhero.
Rob, you should know by now that all lawyers are superheroes.

Whoo-hah!

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
Yep, Speedy is Arsenal. Evidently you don't know enough about the DC Universe, either. This from the guy who's been employed by DC longer than Bob Shreck.

is bob shreck red arrow?

quote:
Originally posted by Dave:

quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
daredevil is not a superhero.
Rob, you should know by now that all lawyers are superheroes.

villains, dave. all lawyers are super villains

quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
I have to respect someone who decides to push their own concept rather than tout an often hackneyed character owned by a major publisher. Not only are they being commerically brave, but they're broadening comics horizons and doing the industry a great service.

Wow, Dave, what an incredibly cool thing to say. Epic deserves a lot of the credit for providing the forum.

The most appealing part about Epic for me is obviously not their deal but Marvel's market share. There's a better chance that the book will reach readers, and if that helps comics as a whole in some very, very small way, then Epic can't be all bad. Speedy's local comic store doesn't carry CrossGen books, for example, and that store is about three feet from New York City.

Commercially brave -- perhaps commercially stupid for talking in public about granting ownership before contracts have been drawn. Although I have to admit that it does feel more like giving back to a medium I love than being screwed out of something valuable, if that's what ends up happening. Plus, I have my reputation to think about. You don't see too many subversives worried overmuch about property (unless it's someone else's that they want to redistribute).

Ask me again how it feels, Mr. Intellectual Property, after the action figures, lunchboxes, and movies come out.

quote:
Originally posted by Pig Iron:
You must buy every marvel masterwork offered...Marvel up to the early 80's is good stuff.

My absolute favorite Marvel period is the early to mid-1980s, the Jim Shooter years, I guess, although I've been buying Marvels longer and indeed I've been alive longer since then. Very strange.

quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
is bob shreck red arrow?

Sigh...

Marc Marc Campbell

quote:
Can any Marvel history people get me up to speed on when Atlantis sunk in the M.U.? Is it before or after 800 A.D.?

Atlantis sunk around circa 16,000 B.C.

P.S. Can I get a signed copy of the 1st issue? [eh?]

quote:
Originally posted by Chaos Son of SoSa:
Marc Marc Campbell

quote:
Can any Marvel history people get me up to speed on when Atlantis sunk in the M.U.? Is it before or after 800 A.D.?
Atlantis sunk around circa 16,000 B.C.

P.S. Can I get a signed copy of the 1st issue?

Chaos, thanks very much for the tip!

My pledge is free comics to all who request them, so yes, I'd be happy and honored to send you yours.

Although be warned. I have been known to guilt people into buying copies instead. I know a measly $2.25 or $2.50 or $2.95 may not seem like much to you, but to me...to me...sniff...sob...to me it means my wife can finally get the operation she needs...sniff...and the sun will shine a little brighter in this cold, unforgiving world.

(Breast enlargements aren't cheap, you know.)

I know - mine cost a fortune.

quote:

Wow, Dave, what an incredibly cool thing to say. Epic deserves a lot of the credit for providing the forum.

The most appealing part about Epic for me is obviously not their deal but Marvel's market share. There's a better chance that the book will reach readers, and if that helps comics as a whole in some very, very small way, then Epic can't be all bad. Speedy's local comic store doesn't carry CrossGen books, for example, and that store is about three feet from New York City.

Commercially brave -- perhaps commercially stupid for talking in public about granting ownership before contracts have been drawn. Although I have to admit that it does feel more like giving back to a medium I love than being screwed out of something valuable, if that's what ends up happening. Plus, I have my reputation to think about. You don't see too many subversives worried overmuch about property (unless it's someone else's that they want to redistribute).

Ask me again how it feels, Mr. Intellectual Property, after the action figures, lunchboxes, and movies come out.

Marx said property is theft, so you just keep feeling good about it.

In the meantime, if you ever need any help with your contracts, let me know. I'd be happy to give you a hand, gratis.

You seem like a good guy, and that way I'd be helping out "indies", which would make a nice change.

quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:

quote:
Originally posted by Dave:

quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
daredevil is not a superhero.
Rob, you should know by now that all lawyers are superheroes.
villains, dave. all lawyers are super villains

I always get those mixed up. Its part of being morally ambiguous.

I wouldnt mind buying the book, if fact that was my plan all along, I just wanted you to sign the issue.

quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
In the meantime, if you ever need any help with your contracts, let me know. I'd be happy to give you a hand, gratis.

Dave, I think Dale Cooper from Twin Peaks said it best: "I am honored beyond the ability to express myself." I'll hold you to it.

quote:
Originally posted by Chaos Son of SoSa:
I wouldnt mind buying the book, if fact that was my plan all along, I just wanted you to sign the issue.

Heh heh heh! Guilted another one! Set 'em up, and I'll knock 'em down.

Seriously, though, Chaos, my pleasure.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:

quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
In the meantime, if you ever need any help with your contracts, let me know. I'd be happy to give you a hand, gratis.
Dave, I think Dale Cooper from Twin Peaks said it best: "I am honored beyond the ability to express myself." I'll hold you to it.

I'll be out of touch in October, while we relocate, but before I go I'll PM you a hotmail address where you can reach me during that time, just in case.

Not to make too big a deal out of it, but, to explain myself, I generally don't mind helping people (that is, people other than large corporations, who are usually my employers) with stuff like this for free (so long as they don't sue me over it if it all goes south). Legal costs are prohibitive for newcomers to creative industries, and act as a disincentive to new talent, either to get proper advice or even to sign a contract if they're suspicious of the terms. So, in helping you out, I'm helping the comics industry as a whole by encouraging new talent. Huzzah! Group hug!

I've done the same thing for small-time actors and musicians in the past. Seems appropriate to do it for an "up and coming" comics writer.

No, I think you did it because you still want to marry me. But I'm straight, Dave. I'm already married. I thought we've been through this. Geez!

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
No, I think you did it because you still want to marry me. But I'm straight, Dave. I'm already married. I thought we've been through this. Geez!

I'm sorry. Honest, I'm having no trouble accepting it. And its not me who is ringing at midnight, night after night, and hanging up without saying a word, either.

I just feel hurt that you ran straight back into Rob's arms.

Of course I went back to Rob. He's easier to manipulate.

Such a grubby euphemism....

I'll say one thing for ya -- ya don't miss much. [wink]

dave's a "bottom," after all.

heading back north...

now that you've got an official deal and acceptance into the world of marvel, does that make future dealings easier? like, if you proposed another idea, would that go directly to marvel or stick with the epic region?

quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
heading back north...

Good one...

quote:
now that you've got an official deal and acceptance into the world of marvel, does that make future dealings easier? like, if you proposed another idea, would that go directly to marvel or stick with the epic region?

Right, that's a good question. To do it justice, I should probably mention the way a comic book goes from pitch to publication.

All comics start life as a pitch. This is basically an advertisement -- it's designed to spark interest. A pitch is usually pretty short. It contains a brief description of the comic idea, maybe a few story outlines and a few pieces of concept art, and that's about it. (Epic pitches are different, but I'm coming to that.)

Anyway, a writer can come up with the pitch. Or an editor comes up with the kernel of the idea and invites several trusted writers to submit competing pitches. ("Jordan's coming back as GL. Somebody make it work.")

If I'm a writer and I want to make a pitch without being invited by some editor, I've gotta know who to pitch to. Different editors control different groups of characters. So if I wanted to pitch a Spider-Man story, I'd have to know who is in charge of Spidey. If I wanted to pitch a Riddler story, I'd have to know who was in charge of the Batman group. So that's the first checkpoint.

Then, that editor needs to be willing to hear my pitch. Editors would rather work with people they know and trust. Be fair, now -- who wouldn't? I could have the greatest Batman story since "Robin Dies at Dawn," but if I'm a complete stranger to the editor, that person looks at me as (1) someone who potentially flakes out on deadlines; (2) someone who potentially airs his gripes in public; (3) someone who potentially sues us; (4) someone who potentially doesn't take criticism professionally or work well with others.

Now let's assume I get past all this. I've managed to sell the editor on me as well as my idea. Now the editor has to go to the top brass and sell them on the idea. The top brass doesn't care as much about the story itself -- they figure the editors know how to pick a good one. But the top brass is extremely concerned about the health of their company and the industry as a whole. If I'm an unknown quantity to these people, the editor has to defend choosing me over Warren Ellis. "How is this new guy going to screw us over?" is the question that gets asked. But also, "How will the public perceive this comic book? How will this get my company more market share? Are my competitors doing anything similar? How does this help me get into the bookstore market? How does this help me get into the DVD market? What kind of movie will this make? What kind of licensing deals does this give my company? Is this new guy going to be late? Is he going to make my distributor even more angry?"

By some miracle, many pitches make it all the way through, because the people at the top love putting out comics. Say what you will about the current people in charge, but you should never doubt that they love comics. Who else but a comic lover would put up with the stress and the hassle? Every single comic that goes out the door is the next potential Nightly News scapegoat when some spoiled teenager shoots up his school. I'm convinced that most controversial decisions have been made as a reaction to the market. Many are stupid decisions, yes, but they're not personal swipes against longtime fans. Of course that's just me, and I'm getting a bit off topic.

OK, now. An Epic pitch tries to take some of the guesswork out of the "Is this new guy for real?" question. So an Epic pitch has to include a complete 22-page script. This tells the editors many things. How well you write, number 1. How professional you are, number 2. Do you proofread your own work? How's your grammar and spelling? By this logic, someone who presents a more professional script is more likely to be professional when it comes to deadlines and editorial input. But it's not a sure thing, because people are people, and there's just no perfect way of telling who's going to be solid and who's going to flake out.

Right now, as we speak, Epic and I are in the middle of a "getting to know you" process. My pitch appealed to them because it exhibited some talent and some professionalism, and I managed to convince enough of the right people that it could possibly help Marvel attract new readers or crack new markets if they published it. And of course there was a tremendous amount of luck involved. But they really don't know me yet.

So now it seems like Epic is testing out what they bought. "All right, Campbell, you seem to be semi-professional. Prove it." Epic is suggesting changes to my script, and I imagine they are looking very carefully at (1) How well I make them and (2) How well I take it. They probably want to get a flavor for what it's like working with me. Am I a diva? Drama queen? Long-suffering artiste? Or can I put my ego aside and help give them the comic they want in a timely fashion?

Slowly but surely, I'm getting an idea what it's like to work for Epic, and I imagine Epic's forming an opinion about what it's like to work with me. But not until Northwood Saga comes out will I even think about pitching something else to Epic or Marvel. It's way too soon. We need to build the relationship first.

After Northwood comes out, I'll be in Epic's comfort zone, so to speak. I won't be an unknown quantity any more. So the next thing I do at Marvel will probably be at Epic.

A few good experiences later, something will start to happen. I'll start getting good word of mouth from Epic's editors. Then I just gotta wait patiently. A Marvel editor will come up with an idea, and that person might invite me to pitch, having heard good things about my work. Or, more likely, a creator will flake out -- happens all the time -- and a book will be in peril of missing a deadline. "Who can we get on short notice on the cheap? Who will do a good job?" My name might come up. I do a good job, and that editor will remember me and may eventually invite me to pitch. At the very least, that's another editor I can add to my Rolodex, to keep in the back of my mind when I want to make a pitch of my own.

So -- at last, in answer to your question, I'm in a better pitching position than I was in June, but not that much better. Not until I can prove to Epic and Marvel that I'm a good investment all the way around. Now is the time to build relationships. The time for more pitches will come.

My first reaction after reading your post (Marc)

"SIGH....damn!"

I've been working on a comic for the better half of a year. Is Epic still taking scripts/pitches from unknown writers?

quote:
Originally posted by Chaos Son of SoSa:
My first reaction after reading your post (Marc)

"SIGH....damn!"

I've been working on a comic for the better half of a year. Is Epic still taking scripts/pitches from unknown writers?

Chaos, yes, absolutely. That's the whole point of Epic. I see where you got that from what I wrote, though, so let me clarify.

The beautiful thing about Epic is, you don't need to know an editor to make that first pitch. Epic's door is open. They'll take pitches from anybody. They don't want to see your resume. They don't care if you're Warren Ellis or Marc Campbell or Chaos Son of SoSa. They'll take anything from anybody.

This gives you, the writer, great power in an otherwise closed process. But with great power comes great responsibility! So when you make that first pitch, just go way out of your way to make it as professional as you possibly can.

Hope this clears it up. Epic wants new writers. Give them (1) A good story that (2) is professionally presented and (3) helps them reach new readers, and you have a real shot.

Thanks Marc. Im going to try it out.

Fantastic, Chaos. Best of luck to ya.

This thread's supposed to be an upper, not a downer. I don't want to leave you guys with the impression that it's a hopeless cause, which it isn't. It's definitely doable. I did it, so it can be done. If it happened once, it can happen again.

At the same time, I don't want to lie to you. Once you have a foot in the door, that's basically what you have -- a foot in the door. A foot in the door is definitely something. It's an excellent start. I have no complaints. In fact, I feel incredibly fortunate. I guess what I was trying to say is this: Even after you get your foot in the door, you don't automatically get the keys to the house.

Mr. Campbell, you provide great advice/insight/erotic stories for us aspiring comic writing people-type objects. I'd like to have your baby someday.

Marc, Mike Carey, the writer of Lucifer, describes a similar path to his success at Vertigo. He had a pitch for Vertigo, happened to find a sympathetic editor, and he was hired. He also had some experience in writing comics for 2000AD, which no doubt helped - he had experience in the industry. But despite the ssuccess of Lucifer - it does middlin' well in sales and has received critical acclaim - he's yet to break it into mainstream stuff (an offer for him to write Firestorm for DC was pulled).

I have some sympathy for editors of comics, who receive pitches. Nearly everyone I know who reads comics wants to write them. It must be overwhelming. No doubt this is part of Epic's appeal.

quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
I have some sympathy for editors of comics, who receive pitches. Nearly everyone I know who reads comics wants to write them. It must be overwhelming. No doubt this is part of Epic's appeal.

Yeah, even when I was an editor for DC, I was clearly working on the wrong floor if I wanted to segue into writing comics. I got the distinct impression that the Web guy was not supposed to slide pitches under doors. One of my colleagues lobbied a bit harder, and she eventually got a fill-in issue. I don't think she ever quite broke into the comfort zone, so they didn't use her again. Too bad. Her book was really good.

I can't overemphasize how remarkable it is that Marvel through Epic is taking pitches from anyone. It is a real opportunity for anyone who doesn't happen to be Brian Michael Bendis. Epic gave me more of a chance and took more time with my submission than my colleagues (and friends!) when I worked at DC. That is something.

Marvel isn't doing this for charity. What comics they get, they'd like to own. Also, they're paying Epic people less money. Also, they want to experiment with an overhead-cutting editorial scheme that shifts most of the production work to independent studios. (Like me. I'm now an independent studio.) So Epic, if it's successful, could bring about some significant changes to the way Marvel produces comics.

But there are many ways to cut costs, and opening the door to all pitches is an indirect route at best. Call me a sap, but I think Marvel loves comics. Yes, maybe Epic is creator-unfriendly, but maybe comics stand to benefit from this.

Have comics companies behaved badly toward creators in the past? Yes. Will they behave badly toward creators today given half a chance? Of course. Look at Epic. Yet you can make the argument that, when creators lose out, comics benefit. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, the Silver Age, the Marvel Age, Frank Miller's Daredevil, The Dark Knight Returns, Watchmen, Swamp Thing, Sandman...all happened under creator-poor conditions. Image, Rob Liefeld, unshipped product, Kevin Smith, Rob Liefeld, the 1990s speculator bubble, slack continuity, hologram covers, and Rob Liefeld...all happened under creator-favorable conditions.

I want good creators on comics. Better, I want good comics. If I have to choose between rock stars with top billing who can't seem to get around to doing comics and end up flushing the industry down the toilet; or Siegel & Shuster types slaving away on a regular schedule that any Nazi would envy without heat, fresh water, or pensions, well...I'm not ashamed to admit it. Crack those whips! Get back to work, Jerry!

quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
Mr. Campbell, you provide great advice/insight/erotic stories for us aspiring comic writing people-type objects.

Ah, good, Disco Steve, glad I could service you. Are you looking at Epic?

quote:
I'd like to have your baby someday.

OK! But the kid's name has to be "Tuttle," girl or boy.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
Ah, good, Disco Steve, glad I could service you. Are you looking at Epic?

Never seriously. I worry that school will get in the way of it, being a Senior in High School. Of course, school gets in the way of comics, and not vice versa.

That and I'm not sure what to think of Epic. Sounds too good to be true.

quote:
OK! But the kid's name has to be "Tuttle," girl or boy.

Tuttle?! I wanted to name it "Strogdor the Mighty" if it's a boy or "Paste Pot Pete" if it's a girl.

I always knew this place was a gay pick-up joint.

quote:

Have comics companies behaved badly toward creators in the past? Yes. Will they behave badly toward creators today given half a chance? Of course. Look at Epic. Yet you can make the argument that, when creators lose out, comics benefit. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, the Silver Age, the Marvel Age, Frank Miller's Daredevil, The Dark Knight Returns, Watchmen, Swamp Thing, Sandman...all happened under creator-poor conditions. Image, Rob Liefeld, unshipped product, Kevin Smith, Rob Liefeld, the 1990s speculator bubble, slack continuity, hologram covers, and Rob Liefeld...all happened under creator-favorable conditions.

I want good creators on comics. Better, I want good comics. If I have to choose between rock stars with top billing who can't seem to get around to doing comics and end up flushing the industry down the toilet; or Siegel & Shuster types slaving away on a regular schedule that any Nazi would envy without heat, fresh water, or pensions, well...I'm not ashamed to admit it. Crack those whips! Get back to work, Jerry!

Anyone with enough skill, business nouce, and faith in themselves always can go the Dave Sims route.

Or the Jim Lee route, to use a better example. I firmly think that if you draw like Lee and can cobble together a decent story, you'll be a success in the industry.

If you have only the ability to write, or to just draw, you're going to be reliant upon a publisher.

Writing comics is just half the talent. Drawing is the other. If you'rer weak on one leg, you need a publisher as a crutch. And the publisher is going to want to own the work.

quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
Anyone with enough skill, business nouce, and faith in themselves always can go the Dave Sims route.

The self-publishing or the misogyny?

Dave and Disco, thanks for the observations as always.

Dave Sims... surely a creator worthy of respect. The mainstream isn't the only stream, obviously, and there are probably more artistically valid ways of getting into mainstream comics than Epic, especially if you have a noisy inner artiste. (I've managed to strangle mine.) There are certainly harder ways. Epic is kind of like the Dark Side of the Force -- quicker, but at what price? Yet the potential benefit to the mainstream may be worth a couple human souls. Now, I don't characterize my ridiculous little script as brilliant, revolutionary, or the work of genius. Anyone who's read The Silmarillion might as well give Northwood a skip. I will say that my book belongs to an underrepresented genre, and even among other fantasy books I'm trying for a different niche. If this is what Epic ends up being, it could nurture a true work of genius, right there in the middle of the mainstream. Right outta Nu Marvel. Imagine. This is maybe the best chance for a paradigm-changin' creator to slip one in.

Re: Subversives. I can't imagine a Dave Sims or a Robert Crumb in a world without Marvel or DC. I think the independent industry absolutely requires a mainstream industry to subvert. Truly brilliant things have come out of the indy world, but I'm not convinced that mainstream comics work better when they appropriate indy standards and ideals. For one thing, you need a genius to pull it off. How many geniuses are there, really? Not enough to build an industry on. Also it seems like we benefit when geniuses suffer.

Look at Disco Steve. He's in high school. Obviously he's suffering. And he comes up with naming a girl "Paste Pot Pete." Brilliant. Get him out of the brain factory, and he'd suggest something lame like "Trapster," I bet.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
Dave and Disco, thanks for the observations as always.[qb][quote]

Welcome.

[quote][qb]Look at Disco Steve. He's in high school. Obviously he's suffering. And he comes up with naming a girl "Paste Pot Pete." Brilliant. Get him out of the brain factory, and he'd suggest something lame like "Trapster," I bet.

Aye. Verily.

Marc,will you book feature lesbians?

We can but hope and pray, bsams.

quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:

quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
Anyone with enough skill, business nouce, and faith in themselves always can go the Dave Sims route.
The self-publishing or the misogyny?

Both!

quote:

Re: Subversives. I can't imagine a Dave Sims or a Robert Crumb in a world without Marvel or DC. I think the independent industry absolutely requires a mainstream industry to subvert. Truly brilliant things have come out of the indy world, but I'm not convinced that mainstream comics work better when they appropriate indy standards and ideals. For one thing, you need a genius to pull it off. How many geniuses are there, really? Not enough to build an industry on. Also it seems like we benefit when geniuses suffer.

Yes. If you're going to take the piss, you need something to take the piss out of.

quote:
Originally posted by britneyspearsatemyshorts:
Marc,will you book feature lesbians?

There's a little dwarf on elf love, but it happens between the panels. You should feel free to insert the elf babe into whatever fantasies you like.

I hope no one from Marvel is following this thread.

For those who come to this thread for actual practical information about Epic, not my incoherent ramblings about comics and the sex talk with various male strangers, I have some new developments to report.

I just got back some comments on the revised script. If you're keeping track, Teresa at Epic wanted me to rethink the beginning of the comic. My original script started with a little info about the world, and then I built the first encounter up slowly. The event that kicks the story into gear didn't come until page 6, I think. So Teresa suggested moving that crucial event to page 1 or thereabouts and pushing some of the extra info to the background.

Teresa also wanted me to watch out for declarative dialog, a bad habit of mine. Declarative dialog is what you get in Scooby-Doo. "Look, Scoob! A ghost!" when it's plain to see that a ghost is exactly what it is, or at least a guy in a ghost costume who wants to scare everyone away and keep the treasure for himself. Declarative dialog is why nobody likes Shaggy very much. So I went through and cleared out all the declarative dialog.

The third thing Teresa wanted was an additional scene with the elf babe. The elf meets the main character -- the dwarf -- about halfway through. In my original script, it was hinted that perhaps there was something going on between the elf and dwarf that the writer hadn't presented in the interest of an R rating. So I added a scene that keeps us in R territory (no explicit exchange of fluids) but makes their relationship a little more apparent.

OK, so this was my first revision. Teresa liked what I did overall and suggested a few other changes. She wants me to cut a few extraneous panels here and there to tighten up the pacing. As soon as she pointed these out, I saw right away that they weren't necessary, so let nobody tell you that having an editor ruins your work. I'm grateful for Teresa's input.

She also wants most of the narrative captions to go. Narrative captions ("Meanwhile, in Gotham City...") have fallen out of favor in comics. My first draft of the script used a fair number of them. They can be annoying, so I tried to give them some character. I imagined the narrator of the Conan movie and tried to write the captions in that style. I ended up really liking them. But it seems like Teresa subscribes to the theory that you should only use as many words in comics as absolutely necessary. I can appreciate this. Plus, not all of the captions are getting the axe. The ones that are staying are crucial for the reader to understand what's going on. Still, it'll be hard for me to take them out, because I think they're clever bits of pseudo-dialog. But if the comic is better without them, then there's no good reason for them to stay.

What else? Let's see...Teresa wants an additional one-page scene that puts back some of the exposition I took out. She came up with the idea of two idiots talking behind the dwarf's back, kind of like a Greek chorus device to draw the reader in. This should be a blast to write. And she wants yet more of the elf babe.

Now, how to add a page and a half without taking out any existing pages but keeping the total page count to 22. Math was never my strongest subject, but this seems a bit challenging on a theoretical level.

I should be getting some more editorial comments this week from Stephanie Moore, Epic assistant ed., so I'll hold off writing anything new until I hear what she has to say.

All in all, I feel good about the editorial input. It's exceeded my expectations. The goal of it has been to help me tell the best story possible. My inner artiste approves.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
There's a little dwarf on elf love, but it happens between the panels. You should feel free to insert the elf babe into whatever fantasies you like.

I hope no one from Marvel is following this thread.

heh, you said insert.....

Dude, so did you! :lol:

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
She also wants most of the narrative captions to go. Narrative captions ("Meanwhile, in Gotham City...") have fallen out of favor in comics.

Seems comics are becoming as cinematic as possible. Soon they'll be speaking... INTO OUR MINDS.

I've come to find sound effects a bit irritating nowadays when the art makes it obvious that a gun is going off or somesuch.

Marc has mentioned declarative dialogue. For the future giants of modern prose amongst us who want some additional tips on literary techniques, check this out:

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_of_speech

quote:
Originally posted by britneyspearsatemyshorts:

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
There's a little dwarf on elf love, but it happens between the panels. You should feel free to insert the elf babe into whatever fantasies you like.

I hope no one from Marvel is following this thread.
heh, you said insert.....

quote:
Originally posted by theory9:
Dude, so did you! :lol:

LOL, I completely missed that one. OK, I'll rephrase...

Please feel free to erect whatever fantasies you like about the elf babe.

quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
She also wants most of the narrative captions to go. Narrative captions ("Meanwhile, in Gotham City...") have fallen out of favor in comics.
Seems comics are becoming as cinematic as possible. Soon they'll be speaking... INTO OUR MINDS.

I've come to find sound effects a bit irritating nowadays when the art makes it obvious that a gun is going off or somesuch.

Yeah, she didn't say anything about the sound effects. They can come in handy, though. If you have someone shooting five or six gunshots in one panel, the picture itself might not be enough.

Marc...any chance of working this guy in?

He looks like he's getting a good working over as it is.

quote:
Originally posted by THE Franta:
Marc...any chance of working this guy in?

I don't think a two page splash will be able to show all of him. Maybe a fold out cover or something.

Sure, I might be able to work him in...

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:

quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
She also wants most of the narrative captions to go. Narrative captions ("Meanwhile, in Gotham City...") have fallen out of favor in comics.
Seems comics are becoming as cinematic as possible. Soon they'll be speaking... INTO OUR MINDS.

I've come to find sound effects a bit irritating nowadays when the art makes it obvious that a gun is going off or somesuch.
Yeah, she didn't say anything about the sound effects. They can come in handy, though. If you have someone shooting five or six gunshots in one panel, the picture itself might not be enough.

Yep, which is why sound effects haven't become archaic yet.

I think it's more fun to work one's way around the sound effects so one doesn't have any... I like challenges like that.

quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:

quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
She also wants most of the narrative captions to go. Narrative captions ("Meanwhile, in Gotham City...") have fallen out of favor in comics.
Seems comics are becoming as cinematic as possible. Soon they'll be speaking... INTO OUR MINDS.

I've come to find sound effects a bit irritating nowadays when the art makes it obvious that a gun is going off or somesuch.
Yeah, she didn't say anything about the sound effects. They can come in handy, though. If you have someone shooting five or six gunshots in one panel, the picture itself might not be enough.
Yep, which is why sound effects haven't become archaic yet.

I think it's more fun to work one's way around the sound effects so one doesn't have any... I like challenges like that.

I'm sure Year Man wouldn't agree with you....

Mxy's to blame for Year Man. It's all his fault.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
Sure, I might be able to work him in...

quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
I think it's more fun to work one's way around the sound effects so one doesn't have any... I like challenges like that.

OK, how would you do the six gunshots thing?

quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
I'm sure Year Man wouldn't agree with you....

quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
Mxy's to blame for Year Man. It's all his fault.

Uh...right! Yep. That's the way I see it.

(Who is Year Man?)

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:

quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
I think it's more fun to work one's way around the sound effects so one doesn't have any... I like challenges like that.
OK, how would you do the six gunshots thing?

Panel 1: Shot of the shooter... shooting. Burst of fire (what the hell do you call that?) from the gun, etc.

Panel 2: Victim being hit by bullets in six areas, splash of blood, etc.

How's that?

quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
I'm sure Year Man wouldn't agree with you....

quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
Mxy's to blame for Year Man. It's all his fault.

quote:
Uh...right! Yep. That's the way I see it.
(Who is Year Man?)

http://yearman.keenspace.com/

Mxy and I started an online comic... never finished.

quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
I'm sure Year Man wouldn't agree with you....

Actually, that was all my fault...

quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
Mxy's to blame for Year Man. It's all his fault.

HOW DARE YOU THROW THAT TO MY FACE!

That's it, the engagement's off.

...!

I CAN CHANGE MXY! I CAN CHANGE!

Hey, guys, sorry for the delay. Computer book nonsense is killin' me this week.

Mxy and Disco, I followed the link to your site. Your comic ain't gonna finish itself. Tell me now of Year Man, and I'll get on your case about not finishing.

Disco, good job with the SFX challenge so far. Now what if all six shots missed? Because it's Spidey who's getting shot at. By the way, he's in a warehouse, and the wall that stops the bullets recedes into darkness...

And now for a general annoucement.

Looks like I'm going to be doing a regular column on the ComiX-Fan Web site about writing tips. It's called "Under the Hood" (a no-prize to the first person who places the reference before Wednesday when the first column goes up).

I'm not qualified to write a column about writing good comic books, but that's the whole point. It's "the rookie leading the blind," as I like to say. I may not have much great wisdom to share, but I know all about trial and error. Especially error.

So come Wednesday October 1, please feel free to stop by ComiX-Fan and check out my latest shameless self-promotion. And hey, why not register and post a hello while you're at it.

But, please, I beg you. For the love of God, do not under any circumstances start in with any of the following:

1. Sex or propositions for same
2. Pictures of community members
3. Insults
4. Typical Rob Board community standards

Don't get me wrong. I love this stuff, and I love Rob, and I love you guys, too. That's why I'm here, not there, on a daily basis.

But on ComiX-Fan, my editors will be reading. So my career is now very much in your hands.

Blackmailers, take note. Bribe requests will be considered.

Thank you.

It's no legion World.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
But, please, I beg you. For the love of God, do not under any circumstances start in with any of the following:

1. Sex or propositions for same
2. Pictures of community members
3. Insults
4. Typical Rob Board community standards

Does that mean we can end a post with those?

quote:
Originally posted by Gary:
It's no legion World.

Then, again, neither are you.

quote:
It's called "Under the Hood" (a no-prize to the first person who places the reference before Wednesday when the first column goes up).

Watchmen. It's the title of Hollis Mason's autobiography.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
Mxy and Disco, I followed the link to your site. Your comic ain't gonna finish itself. Tell me now of Year Man, and I'll get on your case about not finishing.

Year Man was about a fellow who gets superpowers, but then finds out he has a year to live. It's more of a description (like "Dr. Who") than an actual name.

quote:

Disco, good job with the SFX challenge so far. Now what if all six shots missed? Because it's Spidey who's getting shot at. By the way, he's in a warehouse, and the wall that stops the bullets recedes into darkness...

PANEL 1
We're in a dark warehouse. Frank Castle, in a teenage girl's homecoming dress, is shooting upwards, the gunfire illuminating his face like kids when they position flashlights under their chin when they tell ghost stories. Scary stuff.

PUNISHER: Dog my cats, you little mountebank wanker!

PANEL 2
We're looking down at Spider-Man webslinging across the warehouse. His penis is bulging. Six bullets coming from Punisher's gun are missing Spider-Man. The bullets are flying at an angle so that they would hit the wall across from Punisher.

SPIDER-MAN: Ah-ha! You sir, are a sub-par marksman and are like a bowlerdized children's novel in the bedroom.

PANEL 3
As bullets hit it, the walls of the warehouse "recede into darkness?" I don't quite get that.

I'm pretty sure it's a bit incoherent, but it should make at least a bit of sense.

quote:
Originally posted by Grimm:

quote:
It's called "Under the Hood" (a no-prize to the first person who places the reference before Wednesday when the first column goes up).

Watchmen. It's the title of Hollis Mason's autobiography.

And here I thought it had something to do with the Klan.

Hey, everyone. I'm back again briefly, and then I must return to good, wholesome work. Ah, work! My favorite!

Gary, you're right, it's no Legion World.

Doc, I'm impressed. From one post, you can infer the exact opposite of my intent using my own words and then connect me to the Klan. That's a rare talent indeed! You oughtta consider a run for Senate.

Grimm, you are correct! The no-prize is yours! Congrats!

Disco, great dialog! Sorry about the confusion about the receding wall. I was in a hurry when I wrote that. What I meant to imply was that you can't see the wall -- it's draped in shadows or something. So you can't show the six bullet holes in the wall as a way of counting six bullets. Care to resubmit your entry?

Now Disco and Mxy, I think your comic book is an interesting concept, definitely worth doing. But as I suggested before, the Comic Book Elves aren't going to come along in the night and do it for you. When you open up most comic books, you might notice near the beginning a list of names. These are called credits. The credits tell you who created the comic book. That's right -- actual humans are involved. I hope this doesn't spoil the mystery for you. While we're on the subject, you know Santa Claus? He isn't real either.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
Disco, great dialog! Sorry about the confusion about the receding wall. I was in a hurry when I wrote that. What I meant to imply was that you can't see the wall -- it's draped in shadows or something. So you can't show the six bullet holes in the wall as a way of counting six bullets. Care to resubmit your entry?

PANEL 1
We're in a dark warehouse. Frank Castle, in a teenage girl's homecoming dress, is shooting upwards, the gunfire illuminating his face like kids when they position flashlights under their chin when they tell ghost stories. Scary stuff.

PUNISHER: Dog my cats, you little mountebank wanker!

PANEL 2
We're looking down at Spider-Man webslinging across the warehouse. His penis is bulging. Six bullets (with the yellow/orange lines following them) coming from Punisher's gun are missing Spider-Man. The bullets are flying at an angle so that they would hit the wall across from Mr. The Punisher.

SPIDER-MAN: Ah-ha! You sir, are a sub-par marksman and are like a bowlerdized children's novel in the bedroom.

There we go. Got rid of panel 3, put a bit in panel 2.

quote:

Now Disco and Mxy, I think your comic book is an interesting concept, definitely worth doing. But as I suggested before, the Comic Book Elves aren't going to come along in the night and do it for you. When you open up most comic books, you might notice near the beginning a list of names. These are called credits. The credits tell you who created the comic book. That's right -- actual humans are involved. I hope this doesn't spoil the mystery for you. While we're on the subject, you know Santa Claus? He isn't real either.

Year Man is on the back burner, pending retooling.

We used to have our names on the site, but there's that problem of me not knowing how to format the page back in the day.

Year Man will probably be saved for some other point. Mxy claims no rights after 2056.

quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
Six bullets (with the yellow/orange lines following them) coming from Punisher's gun are missing Spider-Man.

I dunno...if you have more than three or four "strobe effect" gun barrels, like the Punisher is moving the gun rapid fire, shooting at different angles, your panel starts to get cluttered. But the dialog and the anatomical notes to the penciler are faultless.

quote:
Year Man will probably be saved for some other point. Mxy claims no rights after 2056.

Great, just in time for my first issue to hit the stores.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:

quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
Six bullets (with the yellow/orange lines following them) coming from Punisher's gun are missing Spider-Man.
I dunno...if you have more than three or four "strobe effect" gun barrels, like the Punisher is moving the gun rapid fire, shooting at different angles, your panel starts to get cluttered.

Hm... Possibly. I kinda like the cluttering of the panel with yellow/orange lines, with the character just barely dodging them.

quote:
But the dialog and the anatomical notes to the penciler are faultless.

Thanks.

quote:

quote:
Year Man will probably be saved for some other point. Mxy claims no rights after 2056.
Great, just in time for my first issue to hit the stores.

Ooh, competition.

heya mc...

so, are there any sorta weird rules about writing an epic book? i remember, a long time ago, you and i discussing all the odd "can't do's" of the BTAS cartoon. for example, while on the fox network, they were never allowed to show shattering glass. you could hear it, then see it later on the floor, but they couldn't show the shards flying.

odd.

so, are there equally weird restrictions for your book? are you allowed to have weird sex scenes, like here? are you not allowed to look joe q directly in the face? are there certain topics you have to bypass (9-11 type stuff)?

quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve
Hm... Possibly. I kinda like the cluttering of the panel with yellow/orange lines, with the character just barely dodging them.

This would only work, I think, if you didn't see the gun in the panel. Otherwise, the gun has to follow the lines, and then you get the clutter. If I were you, I might add a panel between 1 and 2 showing Spider-Man creeping up and Punisher training his gun on him. This would give you the opportunity for more snappy dialog. If the dialog includes something about reloading his hollow-tips, then the reader will know those lines aren't laser beams, plus get a pretty good idea of what Frank's wife thought about him in bed.

quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
heya mc...

so, are there any sorta weird rules about writing an epic book? i remember, a long time ago, you and i discussing all the odd "can't do's" of the BTAS cartoon. for example, while on the fox network, they were never allowed to show shattering glass. you could hear it, then see it later on the floor, but they couldn't show the shards flying.

odd.

so, are there equally weird restrictions for your book? are you allowed to have weird sex scenes, like here? are you not allowed to look joe q directly in the face? are there certain topics you have to bypass (9-11 type stuff)?

Hey, Rob. No, I don't know of any rules per se. Then again, Epic doesn't necessarily know what's fair or foul until somebody does it, and then they ask you not to do it anymore.

I do know the guy who's writing Phantom Jack was just asked to take out some language at the last minute. I can't help but think that this is fallout from the Avengers script you mentioned. Marvel's shareholders seem to like PG material. Not for any moral reasons, but because it sells better.

When Epic was first announced, they were looking only for PG scripts. A couple months later, they expanded that to include R-rated scripts. I would give mine an R for violence. I wouldn't call Northwood a gore fest, but when that dwarf gets to swinging his axe, he doesn't give out little love taps. So maybe I'll be asked to tone this down now. It's the story of the world's angriest dwarf. Get him mad, and he'll...he'll...he'll give you a very nasty look.

TV and censorship go hand in hand. Far more people watch TV. Plus, it's free. So WB is extra careful about content control there. By the way, did you catch the new Smallville? Clark and Lana riding a motorcycle without a helmet! That was a definite no-no back in the days when I was dealing with WB standards and practices.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:

quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve
Hm... Possibly. I kinda like the cluttering of the panel with yellow/orange lines, with the character just barely dodging them.
This would only work, I think, if you didn't see the gun in the panel. Otherwise, the gun has to follow the lines, and then you get the clutter. If I were you, I might add a panel between 1 and 2 showing Spider-Man creeping up and Punisher training his gun on him. This would give you the opportunity for more snappy dialog. If the dialog includes something about reloading his hollow-tips, then the reader will know those lines aren't laser beams, plus get a pretty good idea of what Frank's wife thought about him in bed.

Thanks for the advice. Here's the new draft!

PANEL 1

Side shot. Punisher firing his gun for no apparent reason. Gunfire illuminating his face. Big phallic cigarette in his mouth. Spikey codpiece... I'm thinking we have an opportunity for a Marvel Select "Spikey Codpiece Punisher" figure here.

PUNISHER: I love cats! You are not a cat! You are dead!

PANEL 2

In front of Punisher. He's firing at us. Spider-Man is behind him. We can see Spider-Man's head over Punisher's shoulder. Punisher is surprised as Spidey talks.

SPIDER-MAN: Do you ever reload that thing? Christ! This isn't Army of Darkness, you know.

PANEL 3

Spider-Man dodging several lines of gunfire.

SPIDER-MAN: I'm sexually attracted to earthquakes!

Disco, good job. I sense a David Lynch vibe in your dialog. Have you ever seen Twin Peaks? You were probably just an urchin when it was on TV. Here's the next "avoid the sound effect" challenge.

Pick a character with a full face mask so you can't show his/her facial expression. This character is trying to open a safe by figuring out the tumbler combination. The character's ear is pressed against the safe door, or maybe there's a stethoscope involved. It doesn't matter.

Anyway, in one panel, communicate to the reader that the character has successfully turned the right combination without showing the safe door opening or having a CLICK sound effect. Extra points if the character is UNABLE TO SPEAK.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
Disco, good job. I sense a David Lynch vibe in your dialog. Have you ever seen Twin Peaks? You were probably just an urchin when it was on TV.

I wish I did... I've never seen a David Lynch anything.

quote:

Pick a character with a full face mask so you can't show his/her facial expression. This character is trying to open a safe by figuring out the tumbler combination. The character's ear is pressed against the safe door, or maybe there's a stethoscope involved. It doesn't matter.

Anyway, in one panel, communicate to the reader that the character has successfully turned the right combination without showing the safe door opening or having a CLICK sound effect. Extra points if the character is UNABLE TO SPEAK.

PAGE 1

Panel 1
We're in COBRA sperm bank meant for reproducing thousands of nondescript soldiers with poor marksmanship, in an office.

Panel 2
A vent is suspended in midair, having fallen from the ceiling.

Panel 3
Same as Panel 1.

Panel 4
Snake Eyes descends from the ceiling, sword in hand, ready to slash up anything symmetrically and indescriminately.

Panel 5
Snake Eyes poses, because this is a liscenced comic, so he HAS to do a cool pose or our 12-year old demographic will lose interest. The nostalgic Gen-Xers will buy this crap regardless.

VOICE (op, coming from above, in the venilation ducts): All clear, Snake?

Panel 6
Tunnel Rat descends from the ceiling.

TUNNEL RAT: You know, they all say you're some kind of creepy nutcase, but I think you're good company, personally.

PAGE 2

Panel 1
Shot of a safe.

TUNNEL RAT (OP): That must be it. You open it. I'll look for food. I am one hungry Asian stereotype.

Panel 2
We're behind Snake Eyes as he approaches the safe, slightly crouched, since he's a ninja and ninjas never walk straight.

Panel 3
Close up on Snake Eyes' hand turning the dial, his head pressed against the door of the safe.

Panel 4
Snake Eyes giving a "thumbs up" gesture, ear still against the safe door.

Panel 5
Tunnel Rat entering the room, eating a candy bar.

TUNNEL RAT: You get it?

Panel 6
Tunnel Rat's POV. Snake Eyes is turned to him, holding up a vial.

TUNNEL RAT: Don't look so proud. That's disgusting.

Disco, good job (or thumbs up, I should say).

Thank you sir. I hope you enjoyed reading it as much as I enjoyed writing it.

For general consumption:

As you may be aware, a number of strange things are happening over at Marvel. It looks like Publisher Jemas is history. It looks like Epic Comics, Jemas' baby, is restructuring. And it looks like Peter Parker might be the clone after all.

A-ha! Caught you on that last one!

For better or worse, it looks like Northwood Saga has survived whatever vortex is swirling about the Marvel offices. My most recent intelligence (i.e. Friday afternoon) indicates that the book is still on track for 2004.

Under what logo, who knows? Marvel? Epic? I don't have a clue. What does this mean for you if you want to pitch to Epic? Again, I don't know.

This is the best update I can give at this time, but, hey, we've gone to war for less.

Good to hear. At least the "Still Being Published" part.

I hope to be published one day...

I'm glad to hear it's still getting published, All-Mighty Moderator, I thought maybe it was getting cancelled when I heard about Billy.

Thanks, guys!

Did I pass the test? Can you get me a writing gig for Alpha Flight now? [wink]

Here's a tip, Disco. Until Northwood actually comes out, I would assume I'm not your best contact in the biz. I'm just a man who would feel much better with a contract at this point.

I didn't mean immediately, of course. But I guarantee I'll be the next Steve T. Seagle... make of that what you will.

you're going to make bad movies that only include nudity for a saving grace?

...if it gets me a job in comics, yes.

Huh?

Disco and Dogg, the good news is, you guys don't need to wait around for me or any other connection. Comic book publishing is different than any other kind of publishing I can think of in that people who self-publish aren't considered vanity authors.

If you write novels and you can't get a book publisher to put them out, you can always self-publish, but you'll be a laughingstock. No one will take you seriously. This is called the vanity press.

But if you write comic books, all you have to do is (1) Find an artist who has some time to commit; (2) Interest this person in your project; (3) Maybe toss them a few bucks; (4) Promise them an equitable share of the profits (if any) on the back end; (5) Write your comic; (6) Have the artist draw your comic; (7) And photocopy it if you can't afford to print it. You are now a comic book writer.

Vanity press? Technically, I guess so, but the comic industry doesn't see it like this. In comics, self-publishing is just as viable a way in as working for the big companies. In fact, it's probably more viable. If your comic is any good, your self-publishing efforts will be applauded, romanticized even, not ridiculed. Think about it. The worst anyone says about Cerebus is that it is a work of genius that might be somewhat offensive to women.

Excellent.

How exactly is Cerebus offensive to women? I never really read much of it.

quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
Excellent.

How exactly is Cerebus offensive to women? I never really read much of it.

You be the judge.

Wow. What. A. Wanker.

Now I'm glad I never read it.

The man's politics are not my own. But, as I say, he is a genius.

I do like the idea of a Aardvark that becomes Pope, though. That's brilliant.

Yeah, it's that whole "having the artist draw your comic" bit that always seems to trip me up. . .well, that and lack of funds. but I digress. . .

Yeah, getting the right artist (or any artist) can be the weak part of the plan, but the Web makes it a little easier finding someone at least. If you do find somebody, you might try shooting them with a Hypno Ray to convince them to work on spec -- no money up front.

That was always my problem... no artist.

mmm. . .Hypno Ray. . .

My general experience has been, meet somebody who says they want to draw comics, give them a script, they draw a little, I never hear from them again (oddly similar to my love life, but once again, I digress. . . [nyah hah]

). It's pretty damn frustrating and makes you not even want to work on anything. I have considered that my writing could be part of the problem, and one of the reasons I started posting at HHQ is to work on that very thing.

But also, I'm the kind of person, I don't really want to spend my life writing fifty, sixty year old characters. I really don't have anything to say with most of these characters. I don't want to write filler material for Spider-Man or X-Men books. (FUCK YOU, Marvel.) At most, I MIGHT have one decent JLA story in me.

I want to write my own stuff. And while self publishing is considered good in comics, conversely, new characters/concepts are frequently looked down upon by the fanbase and publishers at large.

I've seriously considered just attempting to do prose work for the most part recently. If I can get into that and make some money, then I may do comics later on, when I can afford to do what I'd like to do.

Grimm and Disco, I know exactly how you feel. I've had the same problem with artists. I doubt your writing is at fault, Grimm. Artists flake out. They make it to the big time, and they still flake out.

I also don't have a burning desire to do superheroes in general or any characters other than my own. I have no desire whatsoever to appear in Spidey or X-Men Unlimited. I saw in Epic a vehicle to get some exposure, not really a stepping stone to a run on Thor. The truth be known, I don't know how many genuine Marvel Comics pitches I have in me.

I have also been in and out of prose phases as a workaround to comics. I think I shared my experience with this earlier in the thread, but it boiled down to prospective agents suggesting that my work would make a good comic book. Sigh. So much for my plan to get into comics through prose, eh? If comics are where I have to be creatively, then there's really no getting around it.

Grimm, I share your concerns about what the fan base and the major publishers want. But if you feel like you should be writing comics, then comics deserve your voice, not the voice that the industry thinks it wants. An industry is just a bunch of businesses, and businesses don't know what they want until you sell it to them. They're stupid this way.

Plus, you never know what will happen. There are flukes, strokes of good luck, happy coincidences, and other synchronistic signularities awaiting you in spacetime. Case in point: I would have never guessed that Marvel would have picked up Northwood Saga. It's mainstream, but it doesn't feel like a Marvel book in so many ways. My impression going in was that the industry in general and Marvel in particular wouldn't want it. I was wrong. So you never know.

I'm no font of sage advice, obviously. But my two cents: If what you really want to do is write comics, I think the best thing to do is to write comics. Write the comics you want to write. Don't give up hope looking for that artist. If you need to get a day job to support your work, then so be it, but keep in mind that breaking into prose circles can be just as hard. Given that there is a huge energy expenditure in front of you, you might as well expend that energy in the most direct channel.

Amen!

Disco, by the way, I thought you were holding off on comics until you got outta high school. Or maybe you were just holding off on Epic? From your scripts, it looked to me like you have been doing this for a while now.

I appreciate the response here. I'll try to comment more on it later. You're a good man, Marc Campbell.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
Disco, by the way, I thought you were holding off on comics until you got outta high school. Or maybe you were just holding off on Epic? From your scripts, it looked to me like you have been doing this for a while now.

I dunno... I'd like an artist to collaborate with, publishing or not. I'm sure there is someone else in my position, not necessarily ready to actually work, but willing to collaborate to fine tune his or her abilities.

I've been writing since I was 16... so about 2 years. I've only written like 10 scripts... only a few of them are unfinished, which pleases me. i always expect myself to not finish things.

quote:
Originally posted by Grimm:
I appreciate the response here. I'll try to comment more on it later. You're a good man, Marc Campbell.

Thanks, Grimm, tho I'm not sure what I did! Anyway, I thought of ya the other day, and, no, not in the wet dream kind of way for once. I was reading this interview with Michael Chabon, Pulitzer Prize winner for Kavalier and Clay. He wants to work in television, and he can't seem to get steady work. Unreal. The guy has Pulitzer, and he's basically knocking on doors in Hollywood. So if prose was his ticket into TV, maybe he should have thought twice.

quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
I dunno... I'd like an artist to collaborate with, publishing or not. I'm sure there is someone else in my position, not necessarily ready to actually work, but willing to collaborate to fine tune his or her abilities.

I'm sure there are thousands.

quote:
I've been writing since I was 16... so about 2 years. I've only written like 10 scripts... only a few of them are unfinished, which pleases me. i always expect myself to not finish things.

Well, Disco, I think you're a good writer. Keep honing those skills. Who knows? Someday you, too, might be living the penniless, solitary life of words! [wink]

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:

quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
I dunno... I'd like an artist to collaborate with, publishing or not. I'm sure there is someone else in my position, not necessarily ready to actually work, but willing to collaborate to fine tune his or her abilities.
I'm sure there are thousands.

I bet... just need to find them.

quote:
I've been writing since I was 16... so about 2 years. I've only written like 10 scripts... only a few of them are unfinished, which pleases me. i always expect myself to not finish things.

Well, Disco, I think you're a good writer. Keep honing those skills. Who knows? Someday you, too, might be living the penniless, solitary life of words! [wink]

[/QB][/QUOTE]

Thank you. It's always been my dream. [biiiig grin]

For the interested. Here's what I'm up to on ComiX-Fan...

Under the Hood #2

I have returned.

More on that later.

quote:
I was reading this interview with Michael Chabon, Pulitzer Prize winner for Kavalier and Clay. He wants to work in television, and he can't seem to get steady work. Unreal. The guy has Pulitzer, and he's basically knocking on doors in Hollywood. So if prose was his ticket into TV, maybe he should have thought twice.

Chabon is deluding himself if he thinks a Pulitzer will get him in the door in TV. The two media are very different. Incidentally, in order to improve his profile, Chabon has been doing the rounds of literary magazines (like Vanity Fair) and offering special commentary on other people's works.

Dave! Welcome back!

Yeah, two different industries. What kind of world is it, though, when not even a Pulitzer opens a few doors? Seems to me that it would or at least it should sell itself to some extent.

Look, I've no doubt it gets people to pay attention to his CV.

But Pulitzers are awarded to writers for artistic merit. Literary skill leading to a powerful work. None of which describes TV.

Its like me saying, Hey, I've got 10 years experience as a lawyer, hire me as a journalist. They're kind of similar, but not really.

Well, they could slap that "Pulitzer Prize" label on anything that Chabon did, even little hand baskets made of straw, and I'd probably give them a second look. I suspect the Pulitzers and Nobels of the world are rigged and corrupt, just like everything else, but I'm still sufficiently impressed by them.

Notwithstanding, you're making my point to Grimm that the best route into comics is comics.

For general consumption:

Things are...happening with Northwood Saga. I can't go into details. It is too soon for announcements. But things are definitely...happening.

So if this thread devolves into even less of a discussion about this comic and its path to publication in the near term, I hope it will be forgiven.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
Well, they could slap that "Pulitzer Prize" label on anything that Chabon did, even little hand baskets made of straw, and I'd probably give them a second look. I suspect the Pulitzers and Nobels of the world are rigged and corrupt, just like everything else, but I'm still sufficiently impressed by them.

I doin't know about them being rigged...but it did occur to me that Chabon's book may have had a lot of appeal to judges. It dealt with the Holocaust (Maus won a Pulitzer on a similar theme), was set in New York, had a nostalgic art deco 1930s flavour to it, and had a sympathetic gay character.

I'm not suggesting that all the judges are gay Jewish New Yorkers with a penchant for art deco '30s literature, but then again maybe some of them are....

I liked Chabon's book, but I'm damned if I can work out how it won a Pulitzer.

quote:

Notwithstanding, you're making my point to Grimm that the best route into comics is comics.

Yes. Although if you read any interviews with John Ostrander or Mark Waid, you'd wonder why exactly you'd want to do that. That takes nothing away from your success so far, Marc, but it sounds like a hard industry.

quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
I liked Chabon's book, but I'm damned if I can work out how it won a Pulitzer.

It's rigged, I tell you! They're all out to get me!

quote:

Yes. Although if you read any interviews with John Ostrander or Mark Waid, you'd wonder why exactly you'd want to do that. That takes nothing away from your success so far, Marc, but it sounds like a hard industry.

Well, the Epic thing is or was certainly a fluke. For most people, getting into comics amounts to kicking in some cash and self-publishing or landing an editorial job -- although don't go in by the Web department. As I've said many times before, the people at DC wouldn't look at my stuff even when I was working for them. As for me, I think the jury is still out on the success part of the equation.

And for those who care, here is a new Under the Hood.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
don't go in by the Web department. As I've said many times before, the people at DC wouldn't look at my stuff even when I was working for them.

and how!

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
And for those who care, here is a new Under the Hood.

dug this very much. specifically the 5 dollar tip.

good work, campbell!

quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
don't go in by the Web department. As I've said many times before, the people at DC wouldn't look at my stuff even when I was working for them.
and how!

Astonishing that you work/ed with them and they wouldn't even look at your ideas.

quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
good work, campbell!

Hey, thanks, Kamphausen! By the way, your boards were down over the weekend. FYI.

quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
Astonishing that you work/ed with them and they wouldn't even look at your ideas.

Yeah, it's a very exlusive club. I was down on the third floor, and comic editorial was on the sixth and seventh floors. Screwy as it sounds, your floor was very important. My next-door neighbor and colleague did a lot more campaigning and hard-selling than I did, and she eventually got a Batman fill-in ish during No Man's Land. I don't think she's done anything else at DC since then. Too bad, because she's really good.

What's her name?

Janet Harvey.

So it's Batman #569, "I Cover the Waterfront."

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:

quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
good work, campbell!
Hey, thanks, Kamphausen! By the way, your boards were down over the weekend. FYI.

You saved me the task of telling him.

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
Astonishing that you work/ed with them and they wouldn't even look at your ideas.
Yeah, it's a very exlusive club. I was down on the third floor, and comic editorial was on the sixth and seventh floors. Screwy as it sounds, your floor was very important. My next-door neighbor and colleague did a lot more campaigning and hard-selling than I did, and she eventually got a Batman fill-in ish during No Man's Land. I don't think she's done anything else at DC since then. Too bad, because she's really good.

I guess that's a reflection of the highly competitive nature of the industry.

I think so. Is that the one with the new Batgirl?

Yessir. Something about the Sharks and the Jets and gasoline... hot dog carts. Sounds like West Side Story meets Mad Max... my kinda comic.

Right, Dave. Say, you're on the boards a bit early tonight/this morning. It occurs to me that maybe you're in a new time zone.

Disco, that's the one.

Janet Harvey had some bad luck this year. She had a character called Jungle Girl. I remember seeing sketches of JG when we were working together. So after lobbying hard for two or three years, Janet finally placed Jungle Girl at an independent publisher. The book was drawn, colored, and solicited in Previews... and then the publisher pulled the plug, citing poor advance sales. Ironically, Janet's initial success with Jungle Girl was one of the things that got me back into comics.

So it is a hard business. It can be ruthless.

Damn. That really sucks. I guess you can never get your hopes up, even when the damn thing is finished.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
Right, Dave. Say, you're on the boards a bit early tonight/this morning. It occurs to me that maybe you're in a new time zone.

Same time zone, north to south - Hong Kong, Singapore, Kuala Lumpar and Perth.

Quiet day at work today.

quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
Damn. That really sucks. I guess you can never get your hopes up, even when the damn thing is finished.

The real trick is not to give up hope. Don't give up hope, Disco!

I'll never give up hope!

Obi-wan, you're our only hope!

As opposed to Marc Campbell. If I was the only hope, I'd advise cutting and running immediately.

Heh. So you don't get hit by a lightsaber and reduced to a pile of soiled clothing?

Holy shit, MC's a comic book writer?

Now you tell me!

[yuh huh]

Dear friends at the RKMB! If you follow the online comic press, you may have heard that there are some sweeping changes in store for Marvel Epic, and I just wanted to confirm that Northwood Saga will not be part of them.

This is what I was hinting at a couple posts ago. I was asked by the Powers That Be not to discuss the changes, and, like a good little robot, that's just what I did. But now that the official announcement has been made, I wanted to make my first public statement here, among friends!

You guys have been...

(1) Incredibly welcoming of a newbie
(2) Incredibly supportive of my work
(3) Incredibly fun to talk to
(4) Fantastically good in bed

I have no plans of leaving RKMB, closing this thread, or ditching comics in general or Northwood in particular. I don't have any announcements to make about the future of Northwood just yet, but I'm workin' on it.

Here follows my official response to Marvel's announcement...

I'm confirming that Northwood Saga will not be published by Marvel Epic. The reason I received from Marvel is that, in light of recent changes, this is not the type of story that Marvel wants to do under the Epic imprint.

Northwood Saga is an epic fantasy, featuring a rotating cast of elves, dwarfs, trolls, wizards, and tragic heroes and heroines. The villains of the story are the humans, who wage neverending war against what they call "monsters," and the book explores some of the consequences of this. It's a creator-owned project with all-original characters, and it was not set to take place in the Marvel Universe.

Northwood Saga was originally announced by Marvel at this year's Wizard World Chicago. The book was never officially scheduled, but there was talk of it coming out in 2004.

With regard to Marvel's decision, I'm disappointed, obviously, but this sort of thing has been known to happen in the publishing world. It has happened to me before in computer books, and I'm sure it will happen again. It just comes with the territory. On the whole, I think Epic was a good experience, and I'm grateful for the time and energy that Marvel invested in my work.

As for the future of Northwood Saga, I don't have anything to announce at present, but I'm not out of tricks just yet.

Shit! I was quite interested in at least looking this over at a shop. That's really gay of Marvel to do that to you.

It's like Bill Jemas' last fucking stand! Because he was demoted, all his plans get shafted.

Amazing as it may sound... Jemas being demoted had a negative effect! [no no no]

man...thats really shitty. I'm pissed for you. Shop it around. Since Marvel originally accepted it and plans were made to solicit it, maybe DC would pick it up for Vertigo, or Top Cow will publish it.

Damn that sucks. I was looking foward to Norwood Saga. Damn it.

Sorry to hear your project is running into problems Marc.

On the other hand, it is nice to know you're still around.

I hope things are good otherwise.

James

That sucks, Marc.

you aint sposed to suck Marc!

Uh-oh!

Bad luck, Marc. All the best in finding an alternative publisher.

You'd think they'd think about these things before announcing a forthcoming story.

Damn.

Right! Thanks, all, for speaking out, and a special "Hey, man!" to my old buddy from DC Online, James Schee! How's it going, Jimmy?!

I must have been a saint in a prior life to be getting such good karma from you guys. But this ain't a funeral. May business at usual resume at RKMB.

But...there isn't any business here, except for "the business"... [biiiig grin]

poopy?

quote:
Originally posted by theory9:
But...there isn't any business here, except for "the business"...

You'll bring the narcs down on us yet, man!

Speedy is gone. We are safe here.

Speedy is the Patrick Swayze of our rap video.

OK, update time. Here's what I've done so far in placing Northwood elsewhere.

I made a couple calls to my old pals at DC. These calls have not been returned. Hmm...

I have an "in" at Image Comics. No guarantee here, but I feel pretty good about the prospects. I've been debating about whether to do this, though. Image is very much like self-publishing, in that, if the book doesn't earn at least two or three grand above the break-even point, you end up paying them. Many comics don't break even, and most just barely break even.(This holds true in book publishing, by the way. The Stephen Kings and Anne Rices help to pay for the Marc Campbells among us. Only one of my six computer books has earned back royalties after the advance, although I think all of them have at least broken even for the publisher.) If I was going to self-publish, I wouldn't need Image to help me lose money. I can do that all by myself.

I sent the script blind to Dark Horse last week.

I bugged some contacts at indy publishers Avatar and IDW. No word back yet from either.

I sent an email to AiT/PlanetLar, asking if I could send a pitch. A few days later, I ran into an interview with the Lar of PlanetLar (Larry, whose last name escapes me at present), in which it was said that it was common knowledge that Larry doesn't take pitches. So I wasn't surprised when, a few days after that, I got a brief but polite email in the resounding negatory.

And that's where I am at present.

An Image publication would look good on your CV.

True, Image gives you a certain legitimacy that you don't necessarily get if you publish yourself under your own label. Also, it would help me to build a readership for whatever else I might choose to do in the future.

I could achieve similar effects through one of the highter-profile indies, so I might try to exhaust those options before making a decision on Image.

ADDENDUM: I just found out that the Epic book Phantom Jack has been released from contract by Marvel and is moving to Image, beyond all reason and precedent. Even if I wanted to move Northwood to Image, I'd be very reluctant to follow in Phantom Jack's footsteps. I take this as the universe's way of telling me not to go with Image.

What's that about? Not that I'm gonna buy it...

It's about a reporter who can turn invisible.

He beats up "muggers" in the park. Then he goes to Iraq, and at one point evidently he was going to assassinate Saddam Hussein.

Larry Young.

Yeah, that's Lar from PlanetLar. Thanks.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
True, Image gives you a certain legitimacy that you don't necessarily get if you publish yourself under your own label. Also, it would help me to build a readership for whatever else I might choose to do in the future.

I could achieve similar effects through one of the highter-profile indies, so I might try to exhaust those options before making a decision on Image.

ADDENDUM: I just found out that the Epic book Phantom Jack has been released from contract by Marvel and is moving to Image, beyond all reason and precedent. Even if I wanted to move Northwood to Image, I'd be very reluctant to follow in Phantom Jack's footsteps. I take this as the universe's way of telling me not to go with Image.

I'd read it the other way. If Image is willing to take a punt on one title approved and then abandoned by Epic, they might do the same for another.

I think my chances are still the same, as in pretty good. It's more of a perception thing. I don't want to be the "me, too" guy. Desperate Times is at Image, and now Phantom Jack...it just feels like old news. Of course, nobody would probably care except for me, so maybe I'm looking at it wrong.

It could turn out that the time isn't right for Northwood. I may have to go through a period of paying dues on superhero comics. This has come up as a possible option for me at Marvel. I'm not crazy about the idea (I can hear some of you shouting at the screen, "What is he saying?!"), but I think I'll give it a shot.

It isn't Power Pack is it? Bring back Damage Control! Or Peter Porker! Ooh, ROM!

TK, if only. They will only let me touch things they don't think I'll screw up too badly. So they'll tell me what they want me to do, and there will be plenty of editorial handholding along the way.

quote:
Originally posted by TK-069:
It isn't Power Pack is it?

Joe Q and myself already have a top secret power pack graphic novel in the works, but you didn't hear that from me....

If you want to sue him for breach of contract, let me know.

Personally, I'd be on the Me-too bandwagon in a flash.

quote:
Originally posted by britneyspearsatemyshorts:

quote:
Originally posted by TK-069:
It isn't Power Pack is it?
Joe Q and myself already have a top secret power pack graphic novel in the works, but you didn't hear that from me....

Power Pack lost me when they all switched powers. I was hurt and confused.

quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
If you want to sue him for breach of contract, let me know.

Personally, I'd be on the Me-too bandwagon in a flash.

I'll take it under advisement, Dave. Thanks.

Ack! Actually I was referring to bsams and the Power Pack deal with Joe Q, not you!

Right. My reply wasn't clear. I was taking your Image thoughts under advisement.

Update: Top Cow has passed. They're not accepting unsolicited creator-owned proposals at this time.

Bummer.

Yet somehow life goes on.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
Update: Top Cow has passed. They're not accepting unsolicited creator-owned proposals at this time.

Top Cow publishes Witchblade. Seems they're not ones for making good decisions.

Things will be different at Marvel after I join the company as a humble mailroom worker and, through dilligence and hard graft, climb the corporate ladder until I reach the lofty position of Supreme President.

Oh yes. And on that day, Spiderman, you will begin a lengthy story arc in which every character that has ever appeared in a Marvel publication gets to beat the shit out of you.

And Marc Campbell, you shall have Greenland, to do with as you wish.

Can I have Papua New Guinea?

And so a deal was forged. Marc Campbell offered his firstborn to the dark god backwards7, and in time he received Greenland, home of the indomitable Northern spirit, to populate with the woodland nymphs of his psyche.

Thanks for stickin' up for me, guys. Disco, re: Witchblade, I know, I know. But you can't fault them on their business logic. That Marc Campbell name ain't gonna sell many comic books by itself.

Epic was truly a fluke in the sense that anybody could have a shot at a book. You didn't need to have a build-in audience, because the Marvel brand already has its built-in audience. So I think what's going to happen now is that I pay some dues on superhero books. Start building a readership. Maybe.

I must confess, I have also been thinking about going manga. Market conditions more favorable. Comfort level with the fantasy genre. Tolerance of sprawling, multivolume epics. My scripts are pretty visual as is, so no real change to my approach. Maybe?

quote:
Originally posted by TK-069:
Can I have Papua New Guinea?

Otisville? [izzat so?]

My very late response to Marc:

quote:
Thanks, Grimm, tho I'm not sure what I did!

Sometimes it's good just to have someone to bounce ideas off of and say "I'm considering this, what do you think?" or "Does this seem like a good prospect to you?" and when you can get an actual response, it's very gratifying.

quote:
Anyway, I thought of ya the other day, and, no, not in the wet dream kind of way for once.

requisite * tee hee!*

quote:
I was reading this interview with Michael Chabon, Pulitzer Prize winner for Kavalier and Clay. He wants to work in television, and he can't seem to get steady work. Unreal. The guy has Pulitzer, and he's basically knocking on doors in Hollywood. So if prose was his ticket into TV, maybe he should have thought twice.

I have no idea what Chabon's thinking. TV, for the most part, seems to me a very anti-literate medium for the most part (ironic, given it's expanse in the fifties using literary authors) and has always been very subject to heavy handed control from sponsors. I would think he'd have better luck attempting screenplays or writing more novels. But if that's what he wants, hey. . .

As for positive examples of prose to comics transition, I will offer two: Greg Rucka and Brad Meltzer. Rucka's series of books did well enough to get him noticed by DC, and Meltzer is a NYTimes #1 bestseller. So, it can happen. Even Stephen King and Clive Barker have dabbled in comics (though they haven't actually written any).

I dunno. There are projects in my head that I see as comics, some that I see as novels, and some as possible screenplays. I love comics, but I would like to try other things also. (and with prose, it's all on me. Don't have to worry about other people to get the work done.)

The Doctor and I are actually currently talking about doing our B Team characters as a computer animation. I'd love to be able to get that as a show on Comedy Central or Cartoon Network.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
Thanks for stickin' up for me, guys. Disco, re: Witchblade, I know, I know. But you can't fault them on their business logic. That Marc Campbell name ain't gonna sell many comic books by itself.

You'll at least have one loyal reader...

I dunno about manga... usually Americans who work in it are loathed by the manga-readers and the Western-oriented readers alike. But that's just what I've seen.

marc, have you ever seen a grown man naked?

quote:
Originally posted by Grimm:
The Doctor and I are actually currently talking about doing our B Team characters as a computer animation. I'd love to be able to get that as a show on Comedy Central or Cartoon Network.

Well, good luck, you guys. That's the way to do it. Think like a shark. Keep swimmin'.

To pass the time while I wait to hear back on Northwood, I've been kicking around this other fantasy idea of mine. I got a good start on it as prose, and I have the same amount of it in comic script form, but I don't have the time to spend on it right now because I have a couple computer books.

You heard it here first. I have just complained that my published work is getting in the way of my longshot fiction projects.

quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
You'll at least have one loyal reader...

Check's in mail.

quote:
I dunno about manga... usually Americans who work in it are loathed by the manga-readers and the Western-oriented readers alike. But that's just what I've seen.

Very true. That has crossed my mind.

Who reads manga, anyway? Personally I don't know anybody who does. Yet it's selling like comics used to, or so they say. Disco, you're in high school. You're hip to all the grooviest jive. Who is reading manga?

quote:
Originally posted by britneyspearsatemyshorts:
marc, have you ever seen a grown man naked?

bsams, you know you're more experienced than me. Why do you keep rubbing it in?

quote:
Originally posted by Grimm:
Otisville?

Miss TessMACHER! [AAAHHHH!!!]

quote:
Originally posted by Grimm:
The Doctor and I are actually currently talking about doing our B Team characters as a computer animation. I'd love to be able to get that as a show on Comedy Central or Cartoon Network.

Yeah. So if there is anybody out there who knows anything about computer animation, like... uh..... how to do it, just drop us a line. [gulp!]

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:

quote:
Originally posted by britneyspearsatemyshorts:
marc, have you ever seen a grown man naked?
bsams, you know you're more experienced than me. Why do you keep rubbing it in?

I think that was more of an offer, Marc.

quote:
Originally posted by thedoctor:
So if there is anybody out there who knows anything about computer animation, like... uh..... how to do it, just drop us a line.

As it happens, I wrote a book about this, but it's limited to Flash/Shockwave, so you're talkin' 2D stuff. If you want to do 3D animation like they have in the movies, Playstation, and Spider-Man on MTV, I can't help ya.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:

quote:
I dunno about manga... usually Americans who work in it are loathed by the manga-readers and the Western-oriented readers alike. But that's just what I've seen.
Very true. That has crossed my mind.

Who reads manga, anyway? Personally I don't know anybody who does. Yet it's selling like comics used to, or so they say. Disco, you're in high school. You're hip to all the grooviest jive. Who is reading manga?

Most of the manga readers are (naturally) the weird anime geeks and video gamers that everyone else finds socially embarassing and weird. These are the same people that would have been playing Dungeons and Dragons twenty years ago, and tend to like Lord of the Rings, Final Fantasy, etc., so there is a possible market there.

I'm sure there are people like me, the comic book fans who also enjoy manga because, to them there isn't a difference (manga is the Japanese word for comics, not their word for comics that originate in their country).

When Marvel Tsunami began less than a year ago, a few of my (idiot) Otaku friends had things to say like "Dude, this is like American rip-offs of manga," so that's probably what they would say about the Northwood Saga, unless you got a bona-fide manga artist (as in a real Japanse person) to work on it. At least, that's my theory. I'm probably severely biased against anime fans.

On a related note, I find it ironic that the comic artists who draw Japanese-style are obviously fans, and it's their Otaku bretheren that show the most disdain for their work. I must remember to point that out to a friend the next time the topic comes up. My "No one ever says 'Hey, that guy's ripping off Cubism'" argument can only go so far...

This wouldn't be for Northwood Saga. Northwood wouldn't work as a manga at all. I have another fantasy idea, though, that's much sunnier, with a younger cast. I didn't intend for it to be a manga, but I think it might work as one. I'm not super crazy about the manga look, though. In fact, that's one of the things that bugs me most about western comics. So that I'm even considering it as a possible manga pretty much ruins my chances of ever joining Pearl Jam.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:

quote:
Originally posted by thedoctor:
So if there is anybody out there who knows anything about computer animation, like... uh..... how to do it, just drop us a line.
As it happens, I wrote a book about this, but it's limited to Flash/Shockwave, so you're talkin' 2D stuff. If you want to do 3D animation like they have in the movies, Playstation, and Spider-Man on MTV, I can't help ya.

Marc, could you please stop trying to sell me your damn books. [wink]

Actually, I'm interested in anything. One thing I've though of doing is just having our own website if we can't sell it to a network. So a flash version would be good also. I'm just not computer literate enough to do this shit myself. Take your shaders, volumetric lighting, and what-nots elsewheres. I don't know nuthin' 'bout nuthin'.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
This wouldn't be for Northwood Saga. Northwood wouldn't work as a manga at all. I have another fantasy idea, though, that's much sunnier, with a younger cast. I didn't intend for it to be a manga, but I think it might work as one. I'm not super crazy about the manga look, though. In fact, that's one of the things that bugs me most about western comics. So that I'm even considering it as a possible manga pretty much ruins my chances of ever joining Pearl Jam.

Ah, I see. I think the problem with Japanese-styled art in Western comics is that it's used when there isn't much reason for it. One of those artistic things. For example, Japanese art would not be good for Watchmen, but might work for my as yet unwritten X-51: The Machine Man ReduXXX proposal.

I'm begging you to explain that Pearl Jam reference. As much as I like the band, what you just said is an enigma to me.

quote:
Originally posted by thedoctor:
Marc, could you please stop trying to sell me your damn books.

Oh, no! The intervention! It has finally come to this. I guess I better sign up for that twelve-step program "Hustlers Anonymous."

quote:
Actually, I'm interested in anything. One thing I've though of doing is just having our own website if we can't sell it to a network. So a flash version would be good also. I'm just not computer literate enough to do this shit myself. Take your shaders, volumetric lighting, and what-nots elsewheres. I don't know nuthin' 'bout nuthin'.

I'm only vaguely aware about how TV shows get made. Do you need to produce the thing yourself, or is it possible to send a script or a treatment around, get a budget behind you, and then hire some graphics people?

quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
I'm begging you to explain that Pearl Jam reference. As much as I like the band, what you just said is an enigma to me.

Right. Well, they have a rep of being artistically uncompromised. If I dislike the anime look, but that isn't stopping me from thinking about working in manga, I'd say I've given my muse grounds for divorce.

Ah. I thought you meant you were going to publish every draft of everything you ever write, then cross out, then rewrite. Or boycott Borders.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
Oh, no! The intervention! It has finally come to this. I guess I better sign up for that twelve-step program "Hustlers Anonymous."

Here, have some alcohol. It's better for you.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
I'm only vaguely aware about how TV shows get made. Do you need to produce the thing yourself, or is it possible to send a script or a treatment around, get a budget behind you, and then hire some graphics people?

Actually, the normal way to put together a pitch with artwork (for animated shows, that is) to show to a network. But because a) I can't draw worth a shit and b) I want to create some buzz before hand, I'd like to be able to do a few shows to show around on the con circuit or even online to build up some ground roots fan support. The guys at Homestar Runner did this even though they have decided to keep it strictly online. I, on the other hand, am a whore and am willing to sell myself and ideas. Cheap.

Slut!

quote:
Originally posted by backwards7:
Things will be different at Marvel after I join the company as a humble mailroom worker and, through dilligence and hard graft, climb the corporate ladder until I reach the lofty position of Supreme President.

Oh yes. And on that day, Spiderman, you will begin a lengthy story arc in which every character that has ever appeared in a Marvel publication gets to beat the shit out of you.

And Marc Campbell, you shall have Greenland, to do with as you wish.

I have from time to time touted a plan that we get enough people to buy shares in Marvel that we elect on of us to the board of directors. One of the problems in being listed is that shareholders can give you grief.

quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
Slut!

This coming from a lawyer. Which are you? The pot or the kettle? [wink]

quote:
I, on the other hand, am a whore and am willing to sell myself and ideas. Cheap.

I am willing to sell the doctor and his ideas also. Make me an offer.

quote:
Originally posted by thedoctor:

quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
Slut!
This coming from a lawyer. Which are you? The pot or the kettle?

I'm the midnight oil!

The more i think about this idea of buying MArvel shares the more I like it. We can pout questions to the ir Annual General Meeting about why Marc's story was canned.

Shall we all go and buy some shares? Instead of buying Marvel comics for a month, go and buy their shares instead? That way we'll literally own a piece of the company.

quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
Ah. I thought you meant you were going to publish every draft of everything you ever write, then cross out, then rewrite. Or boycott Borders.

Eddie Vedder = Cowboy from old west. Proof:

Ah seem to recognize yer face/Haun-ting famili-er, can't seem to place it/Cannot find the candle o'thought/T'light yer name/Life times'r catchin' up with me.

quote:
Originally posted by thedoctor:
I, on the other hand, am a whore and am willing to sell myself and ideas. Cheap.

Another thing we have in common.

quote:
Originally posted by Grimm:

quote:
I, on the other hand, am a whore and am willing to sell myself and ideas. Cheap.

I am willing to sell the doctor and his ideas also. Make me an offer.

Is kissing allowed?

quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
The more i think about this idea of buying MArvel shares the more I like it. We can pout questions to the ir Annual General Meeting about why Marc's story was canned.

I can tell you that. It's probably not brilliant work. Also, more importantly, Marvel didn't own it outright, and they didn't think that acquiring it would bring them enough profit. They have this agreement called a New Character Deal, which basically cuts the creator in on a (small) slice of whatever their creation, acquired by Marvel, produces in the marketplace. At last count, Northwood would have required about twenty New Character Deals. That, or their lawyer would have to draw up a special contract that gave them the Northwood and everything in it. But just a few extra hours of legal work would consume whatever profits Marvel hoped to realize from it.

Dave, I just made that whole thing up. The New Character Deal exists, but I really don't know how it applies to me, since we never got to the stage of actual paperwork being produced. What I'd like to know is, why did they even pick Northwood up to begin with.

quote:
Shall we all go and buy some shares? Instead of buying Marvel comics for a month, go and buy their shares instead? That way we'll literally own a piece of the company.

That appeals to me. But I'm at the low ebb of the freelance cycle at present. I'm waiting for the next infusion of cash. It goes like this: (1) Work like mad while starving. (2) Get paid. (3) Buy food. I'm in #1 at present. Two computer books simultaneously. I am going quite mad. Not that anyone could tell the difference, I'm sure.

I think we should start soome sort of groundswell thing, called, "Make Marvel Mine!"

Everyone should post on message boards the idea of buying Marvel shares so fans can exercise control over the company. Especially since one share is the about cost of one of their comics.

Dave, your ideas intrigue me. I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
[/qb]

Thunder bolt and lightening.

Very, very frightening, me

Galileo!

Galileo

Galileo Figaro

Magnificoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...

I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me

He’s just a poor boy from a poor family!

Spare him his life from this monstrosity!

...easy come easy go...will you let me go?

Bismillah! No - we will not let you go - let him go

Beelzebub has a devil put aside for me.

for me.....

for meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!

DUN DUN DUN dunanah dunanah DUN DUN DUN dundunDUN! DUN DUN DUN dunanah dunanah DUN dun dun dunanahhhhhhhhhh BAHWOWWWWWWWWWW!

So you think you can stone me and spit in my eye

dunanah dunanah dun DAH!

Damn dirty apes... $[...rassamnfrackin...]$

dude, you got to start attending rehearsals....

Yeah, you maniac... you blew it...

MANIAC BLOWER!

quote:
Originally posted by britneyspearsatemyshorts:
MANIAC BLOWER!

He didn't mind!!! [whaaaa!]

quote:
Originallly posted by Marc Campbell: Is kissing allowed?

Only if he likes you.

Or you like him.

Yes.

Nothing really matters, anyone can see.

Marc--

You were that to being sued by Metallica. Please be careful in the future!

This is so un-fucking-professional, man! That's it! I quit the band!

Solo venture, here I come!

Solo careers?! Rubbish! You guys are just going to come out with a lighter, adult contemporary sound and then play old band material during the encore.

While I am going to continue under the band name with all-new members who try to copy your styles.

quote:
Originally posted by theory9:
Marc--

You were that to being sued by Metallica. Please be careful in the future!

A little known fact is that Freddie Mercury was a founding member of Metallica.

...and will continue to be little-known.

I'm proud to announce my first solo album. It's a personal piece that brings me back to my folk/blues/hip hop roots. It's recorded with 100% acoustic instruments, including the drum machine. I hope you enjoy it.

I heard you use the "talkbox" effect popularized by Roger and Zapp. Can you confirm or deny this?

Let me clear up the confusion. Yes, I do use the effect, but not on this album. I am currently in the studio with a side project that just came up not to long ago. It's called Time Lordz with myself on guitar, Dr. Samuel Beckett on bass, Rod Taylor on piano, Mr. Peabody on saxophone, and Kang on the drums.

As of now, we only plan to do one album. Whether we'll even tour to promote it or reunite for another is a question left for another day.

*snicker*

"Rod"...

tee

I'd like to take this opportunity to announce my new project. I've taken my original posts from this thread and seamlessly combined them in the studio with posts from the new band, digitally remastered for Dolby 6.1.

Rolling Stone: "Does to rock music what George Lucas did to the Star Wars trilogy..."

I'm also seeking an injunction against thedoctor from performing any of our old material live.

Recent interview from Guitar World Magazine:

quote:
He's traveled across the 4th dimension to save planets as well as help determine the fate of the universe for centuries. Now he's traveling across the planet Earth from venue to venue to bring us his own eccentric brand of music. We happened to catch the Doctor before his show in New York.

How does it feel to be back out on your own?

Quite good, actually. It's been some time since I was last out on my own. Seems like I always end up tied to one or more other people whereever I go. It's rather nice to get out and do your own thing every once in a while.

What's been the fans' reactions to this?

It's mixed. There are some who didn't want to see the end of the band. They think it's the end of an era, and they just may be right. That music will never be the same again. But I felt it was time to start a new era, so to speak.

Then, there are the fans who couldn't be happier about the break up. Every night when my T.A.R.D.I.S. materializes on stage, they just roar with excitement. It's a great feeling to walk out on stage to that. They went crazy in London when one of my former regenerations showed up to back me up on his recorder. It's been a great time.

How do you react to Marc's recent court order to prevent you from playing the old material?

It's absolute rubbish. I wouldn't play that material if a Dalek commanded me at snout point to. I've moved past that stage. I'm on another path entirely in both music and my personal life. It's better left in the past.

Besides, this is just Marc trying to capitalize on what once was. Everyone else in the band has moved on. TK is in the studio as we speak. Disco Steve has started his own label and studio. The rest of the band members are forming their own groups. He's just trying to recapture the old thunder.

That's been his problem since the beginning. He's always been about the hype and not the music. We had to fight him tooth and nail to keep him from booking us as The Marc Campbell Quartet.

Why's that?

Well, because there were six of us, for one thing. Plus, it was supposed to be about the band and not just one person in it. That's what led to the break up. Mark kept swinging the attention to himself. The whole band worked our asses off to get where we were while he'd gotten into the habit of showing up to rehersals and recording sessions hours late. That just wasn't very respectful to the rest of us.

Oh, and if you do an interview with him, watch out. He might try and sell you one of his books.

(continued on p.54)

Will Courtney Love be doing any vocals on the new album?

She has as much participation in my projects as she did in making Nirvana popular. So, no.

I think driving Kurt to suicide raised their popularity to new levels!

Marc Campbell = Marc Bolan?

T-Rex=Meatloaf?

No mention of me in the article again. No one cares about the bass player. . .

Rolling Stone XXX-mas Special:

quote:

“I can materialize, too, you know. Want to see?”

I’m sitting in the lobby of the Anchorage Best Western, chatting it up with Marc Campbell. He’s been steering the conversation toward teleportation for the last ten minutes. I decide to indulge him.

“Forget it,” he says, sitting down. “You don’t really want me to.”

One gets the impression that the subject of metaspatial travel is a sore one for the grizzled performer, 83. His former bandmate thedoctor utilized teleportation and other quantum effects on his recent string of sold-out stadium shows—something that he never would have attempted as a member of the band.

“I never told him he couldn’t materialize,” says Marc. “Let’s get one thing perfectly clear. I’ve been taking some hits in the press lately, and it’s not fair. The band was a democratic organization if ever there was one. It was democratic to a fault. If one of us had wanted to use sophisticated multidimensional technology in the stage show, I certainly wouldn’t have stood in the way. The fact of the matter is that we never discussed it. Never.”

A strange look comes over Marc’s face, and he corrects himself. “I mean, the band IS a democratic organization. Not was. Is. It still exists, thank you very much. It’s just as strong as ever. How did you like the new album?”

He’s speaking of “Retrospective,” a collection of previously recorded material that allegedly features the contributions of new band members, guest stars, and noted session players, although with the exception of heavy echo processing on all the vocal tracks, these remastered selections sound suspiciously like the originals. Many critics regard “Retrospective” as a criminal offense. I mention this to him in passing.

“Teleportation isn’t that hard,” he says. “Not if you know how to do it. I invented the process he’s using, you know. That doesn’t get talked about, but it’s the truth. I call it fiber molecularosis. It works on the principle of string theory. It’s all right here in my book.”

The frontman throws open his jacket with the gusto of a sexual deviant, revealing several copies of dog-eared computer manuals. He flashes me a smile that’s somewhere between Elvis and Mick Jagger, and he draws his jacket closed. Then he hits me with a bombshell.

“TK, Disco, and Grimm are on the new album.”

I do a doubletake. I ask him to repeat himself. He looks at me incredulously.

“The old band. Minus thedoctor. They’re on the new album.”

I begin to suspect that Marc thinks I’m an idiot. At last check, drummer TK was in the studio, working on his first solo album, while bassist Grimm and rhythm guitarist Disco Steve made a few well-received surprise appearances during the last leg of thedoctor’s tour.

“That’s hogwash,” Marc says, and he spits on the floor. “I was thedoctor’s keyboard player for the entire tour, and Disco and Grimm never once showed up. They weren’t in the encore. They weren’t even at sound check. I would have known it if they were, seeing as how I was there, and they would have known it, too, because I would have had a few words with them. But, yeah, they're on the new album, and so is thedoctor, actually, plus all the guest stars and session guys. Pretty much everyone is on the record somewhere. I rerecorded all the voice and keyboard parts, of course, and I played all the rest of the instruments. The other guys basically just helped me power up all the equipment. But it's definitely a collaborative record, probably the most collaborative record we've ever done, now that there are, like, 500 people in the band.”

I ask Marc to stop while I play back my tape, just to confirm that I heard what I thought I heard. I did. Marc was in thedoctor's stage band?

“Oh, yeah,” Marc says, shrugging. “I was part of the big tour. The big-deal tour, if you ask me. You see someone materialize once, and it's more than enough. But, yeah, I was on the tour. That’s another thing what’s-his-name never seems to be able to remember when he’s giving an interview. But the truth of the matter is simply this: I wrote all his material, and I produced his solo album, in spite of what it says in the liner notes. I should know. I wrote them.”

Drug-fried brains are one thing. You get used to them in this business. But the tangled webs this former frontman weaves are too much even for me. I decide I've had enough.

I go into my briefcase. I pull out a copy of last month’s Rolling Stone, the issue with thedoctor on the cover. I open to the tour photos collage. I don’t seem to see Marc on stage. Neither does he.

“I was invisible,” he explains. “I knew it was going to be a problem when I was taking those pictures of us for your magazine. Turning invisible in front of a packed house is something I always wanted to do when thedoctor was in the band, but he wouldn’t let me. You don’t know what it’s like, having the ability to turn invisible and not being able to show the world. I’ll never work with thedoctor again.”

Marc shifts in his seat. “At least not visibly.”

:lol: :lol: :lol:

quote:
"It's really sad," the Doctor says as the conversation shifts to his former bandmate, Marc Campbell. I can tell that it is not a comfortable subject. "I saw him once several years ago, right after he was institutionalized for trying to overdose on Pixie Stix. He was in bad shape then. A shell of the man he once was. I couldn't handle seeing him like that. I haven't had the courage to visit him again."

We're sitting in the main room of his T.A.R.D.I.S. It is magneficintly large. The walls are lined with rare objects from all over the universe. It's like a musuem without the velvet ropes and plaques.

"Grimm has visited him the most. He's told me stories of Marc singing into a rubber tree like it was a microphone and performing for an audience of hedges outside of his low rent apartment.

TK rang me up before a show one night to give me his new number. He had to have it changed. Marc kept calling him trying to organize a reunion tour. The trouble was, he wants to kick it off with a concert on the sun."

I try to steer the conversation to other band members and ask him about Disco Steve. "It's no longer Disco Steve," he replies. "It's now Rev. Steve. He found religion about a year ago. I understand that he's leading a musical ministry down in Honduras somewhere."

I bought the rights to the movie. Yer all fucked...

quote:
Originally posted by theory9:
I bought the rights to the movie. Yer all fucked...

Sorry, guys. I sold theory9 the rights to our story for a measly Pixie Stix fix.

Preliminary casting:

thedoctor--one of the guys from the Strokes
TK-069--Gary Coleman
Grimm--Mike Patton
Marc Campbell--Jack Nicholson

...directed by John Woo.

quote:
Upon attempting to interview Grimm for a followup to this article, we found him on the floor of a seedy nightclub, rolling around in a puddle of his own vomit. The scary thing is, he was apparently sober at the time.

quote:
Originally posted by theory9:
Preliminary casting:

thedoctor--one of the guys from the Strokes
TK-069--Gary Coleman
Grimm--Mike Patton
Marc Campbell--Jack Nicholson

...directed by John Woo.

Wow! Jack as me? What an honor! Although Fred Rogers or Carl Sagan would have been better casting choices. Or maybe Joan Rivers.

Hey! You! Happy Holidays!

Hey you,
Don't help them to bury the light.
Don't give in without a fight.

Hey you, don't watch that,
Watch this!
This is the heavy heavy monster sound
The nuttiest sound around
So if you've come in off the street
And you're beginning to feel the heat
Well listen buster
You better start to move your feet
To the rockin'est, rock-steady beat
Of Madness
One step beyond!

Nah, nah nah, nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah nah,
Hey you.

Quote:

Hey! You!

...get offa my baaack!

Gary Coleman?!

yambag

All right, then. Happy New Year, everyone. I am back in the fold after an extended leave of absense from the computer. I decided to give myself an Xmas present this year and avoid anything like technology for a good week and a half. DVDs, CDs, electricity, television, heat, hot water, indoor plumbing, and video games don't count. But I am back online now.

The new year. A time for reflection. In looking ahead, I have no idea what is in store for Northwood Saga. An online tarot oracle gave little in the way of concrete advice when I posed the question, yet the overall flavor of the reading was vaguely pessimistic. Take this as you will. I will press forward nevertheless.

Time to fire off a couple follow-up emails to various individuals in the comic industry.

Not much else to report. In the meantime, I suggest that this thread break into individual discussion groups.

Quote:

Upon attempting to interview Grimm for a followup to this article, we found him on the floor of a seedy nightclub, rolling around in a puddle of his own vomit. The scary thing is, he was apparently sober at the time.

We must print a retraction to this article. New information has lead us to discover that the vomit was, indeed, not his own.

The new album comes out next week:

Disco wanted to know if we were still gonna tour Japan.

CANNONS TO THE LEFT OF ME! CANNONS TO THE RIGHT! Volley'd and thunder'd! What a fucking sight!

Quote:

Grimm said:
Disco wanted to know if we were still gonna tour Japan.

Only if he promises to keep his pants on onstage.

Have you hired the guys to keep the backstage area Pixie Stix free? Marc is just now getting back no his feet. We dont' need to send him into a relapse.

Originally Posted By: Chaos Son of SoSa

Marc Marc Campbell

quote:
Can any Marvel history people get me up to speed on when Atlantis sunk in the M.U.? Is it before or after 800 A.D.?

Atlantis sunk around circa 16,000 B.C.

P.S. Can I get a signed copy of the 1st issue? [eh?]