RKMBs
Posted By: Rob Researchers claim: AIDS no more! - 2004-12-13 6:51 PM
Rutgers researchers optimistic about trio of AIDS drugs
The Associated Press


    Researchers at Rutgers University have developed a trio of drugs they believe can destroy HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, according to a published report.

    The drugs, called DAPYs, mimic the virus by changing shape, which enables them to interfere with the way HIV attacks the immune system.

    Tests conducted in conjunction with Johnson and Johnson have shown the drug to be easily absorbed with minimal side effects. It also can be taken in one pill, in contrast to the drug cocktails currently taken by many AIDS patients.

    "This could be it," Stephen Smith, the head of the department of infectious diseases at Saint Michael's Medical Center in Newark, told The Sunday Star-Ledger of Newark. "We're all looking for the next class of drugs."

    A research team led by Rutgers chemist Eddy Arnold pre-published details of the most promising of the three drugs, known as R278474, last month in the electronic edition of the Journal of Medicinal Chemistry. Full details will be published in the journal in early 2005.

    Arnold, 47, has worked at dismantling the AIDS virus over the last 20 years. He uses X-ray crystallography, a technique to determine the structure of molecules, the smallest particles that can retain all the characteristics of an element or compound.

    The research has targeted reverse transcriptase, a submiscroscopic protein composed of two coiled chains of amino acids. It is considered HIV's key protein.

    "Reverse transcriptase is very important in the biology of AIDS," Smith said. "If you can really inhibit reverse transcriptase, you can stop AIDS."

    The optimism about R278474 stems from its potential to interfere with an enzyme that the virus needs to copy and insert itself into a human cell.

    "We're onto something very, very special," Arnold told the newspaper.

    Arnold established his lab at Rutgers' Center for Advanced Biotechnology and Medicine in 1987. His current 30-member research team is partnered with Johnson and Johnson subsidiaries Janssen Pharmaceutica and Tibotec-Virco NV.

    An important advancement in Arnold's research came in 1990 when Belgian scientist Paul Janssen was added to the collaboration. Janssen, considered a drug pioneer, published a paper that year that described a new drug that blocked reverse transcriptase but caused resistant strains of the virus to pop up too quickly.

    Janssen sought out Arnold, who used crystallography to detail the structure of RT. Their work ultimately led to the RT inhibitors.

    Two earlier relatives of R278474, called TMC-120 and TMC-125, have showed promise in clinical trials. Johnson and Johnson officials told the newspaper that the two drugs are of major interest to them, but did not discuss R278474.

    "We may eventually win the war against HIV/AIDS. That would be an extremely rewarding and satisfying outcome," Arnold said. "But even to have contributed to helping the health and well-being of the many people infected with HIV will be very satisfying if that were to happen."
Posted By: Pariah Re: Researchers claim: AIDS no more! - 2004-12-13 6:52 PM
Nope. Not gonna happen.
Posted By: Rob Re: Researchers claim: AIDS no more! - 2004-12-13 8:11 PM
so... this article discusses the potential end to, perhaps, the most involving and "popular" illness that has plagued mankind since the plague ... and you poo poo the thought?

contribute and elaborate, sweetie.
Posted By: thedoctor Re: Researchers claim: AIDS no more! - 2004-12-13 8:17 PM
It's Pariah. Don't look for a coherent or logical thought process.
Posted By: King Snarf Re: Researchers claim: AIDS no more! - 2004-12-13 8:47 PM
Feh! They need to cure cold sores! Every couple of months I get these painful sores in my mouth, had 'em since I was a kid, and they make life awful!
Posted By: the G-man Re: Researchers claim: AIDS no more! - 2004-12-13 8:48 PM
If I might be a bit more verbose than Pariah, while still echoing his basic point:

I hope Pariah is wrong. However, from what I have read, the HIV virus is extraordinarily adaptive and fast evolving. As such, there is a strong possibility that no "trio of drugs" will remain effective against the virus for very long. In fact, I seem to recall reading that similar trials met early success only to see the drugs become ineffective as the virus changed.
Posted By: rex Re: Researchers claim: AIDS no more! - 2004-12-13 8:51 PM
Quote:

King Snarf said:
Feh! They need to cure cold sores! Every couple of months I get these painful sores in my mouth, had 'em since I was a kid, and they make life awful!




Cold sores aren't a political disease, therefore, not important.
Posted By: Jim Jackson Re: Researchers claim: AIDS no more! - 2004-12-13 9:18 PM
Quote:

rex said:
Cold sores aren't a political disease, therefore, not important.




AIDS is fare more than a political disease. Just ask anyone in sub-Saharan Africa.
Posted By: rex Re: Researchers claim: AIDS no more! - 2004-12-13 9:25 PM
I don't care about Africa.
Posted By: Jason E. Perkins Re: Researchers claim: AIDS no more! - 2004-12-13 10:03 PM
I am incredibly surprised. Incredibly.
Posted By: Jason E. Perkins Re: Researchers claim: AIDS no more! - 2004-12-13 10:04 PM
Sadly, I agree with Pariah and the G-man.
Posted By: whomod Re: Researchers claim: AIDS no more! - 2004-12-13 11:49 PM
As with any drug (including the much overused and abused antibiotic drugs) it will become useless once the viruses adapt. That's no reason to not keep trying and hoping though.

We're all gonna die one day from the mutated superflu virus anyways.

But regardless, i sense a dismissive tone here. As if AIDS, in it's own way is a GOOD thing. Which I find rather disturbing.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Researchers claim: AIDS no more! - 2004-12-13 11:52 PM
No dismissive tone from me.

Who, in fact, do you see such a tone from?
Posted By: whomod Re: Researchers claim: AIDS no more! - 2004-12-14 12:01 AM
Well,,,calling AIDS a political disease for one..

..and then dismissing the sufferings in Africa which by the way is nothing less than catastrophic for another.

It sounds as if as long as only black people and gays get it, it's at a good comfort level for some.

http://www.time.com/time/2001/aidsinafrica/cover.html

http://iafrica.com/aidswise/news/394027.htm

http://news.google.com/news?q=aIDS+in+africa&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=nn&oi=newsr
Posted By: rex Re: Researchers claim: AIDS no more! - 2004-12-14 12:24 AM
Quote:

whomod said:
We're all gonna die one day from the mutated superflu virus anyways.




You still believe that BS?
Posted By: whomod Re: Researchers claim: AIDS no more! - 2004-12-14 12:31 AM
Quote:

rex said:
Quote:

whomod said:
We're all gonna die one day from the mutated superflu virus anyways.




You still believe that BS?




Well, considering I had the flu this year FOR 3 CONSECUTIVE WEEKS, yeah, i do.
Posted By: Pariah Re: Researchers claim: AIDS no more! - 2004-12-14 1:52 AM
Quote:

Rob Kamphausen said:
so... this article discusses the potential end to, perhaps, the most involving and "popular" illness that has plagued mankind since the plague ... and you poo poo the thought?

contribute and elaborate, sweetie.




AIDS/HIV, like any diseases, are evolving ones. Even if we cure those, a splinter resembling them will just show up again. And the slightest change in cellular body could mean the epitome of hoplessness on a scientists part. And on that note, I don't think we're going to ever cure the full effect of aids.
Posted By: rex Re: Researchers claim: AIDS no more! - 2004-12-14 3:23 AM
It would help if the gays stopped spreading it.
Posted By: Fused Re: Researchers claim: AIDS no more! - 2004-12-14 4:44 AM
Jesus Christ.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Researchers claim: AIDS no more! - 2004-12-14 5:01 AM
Wow this is great news if it works. This could be a new lease on life for so many people.
Posted By: Uschi Re: Researchers claim: AIDS no more! - 2004-12-14 5:32 AM
If it works for one person it's worth it. Here's hopin'!!
Posted By: the G-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-12 5:21 AM

Quote:

Rob Kamphausen said:
Rutgers researchers optimistic about trio of AIDS drugs
The Associated Press


    Researchers at Rutgers University have developed a trio of drugs they believe can destroy HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, according to a published report.





Quote:

Pariah said:
Nope. Not gonna happen.




Quote:

the G-man said:
I hope Pariah is wrong. However, from what I have read, the HIV virus is extraordinarily adaptive and fast evolving. As such, there is a strong possibility that no "trio of drugs" will remain effective against the virus for very long. In fact, I seem to recall reading that similar trials met early success only to see the drugs become ineffective as the virus changed.




Case in point, from today's New York Times:

    New York's first diagnosed case of highly drug-resistant HIV in a person never before treated for the virus is ``a wake up call'' to anyone who has unprotected sex, the city's health commissioner said Friday.

    The patient, a man in his mid-40s who had unprotected sex with other men, contracted a strain of HIV that is ``difficult or impossible to treat and which appears to progress rapidly to AIDS,'' said the Health Commissioner Dr. Thomas Frieden.

    The commissioner said the city's health authorities are working with the federal Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta to find other possible cases of the drug-resistant HIV strain that quickly turns into AIDS.

    The patient's three-class antiretroviral-resistant HIV did not respond to three of four classes of anti-retroviral medication most commonly prescribed. He is now receiving a fourth ``cocktail'' in hopes his rare HIV strain will respond, health officials said.

    Drug resistance is increasingly common among HIV-positive people, including some who had never been treated before -- but not with such a fast progression to AIDS, Valdiserri said.

    What makes this case important to scientists is ``the double whammy of resistance to three classes of drugs, in combination with the rapid clinical course of the HIV to AIDS,'' Valdiserri said. ``The message to the American public is that HIV remains a very formidable adversary. We can't let down our vigilance.''

    Dr. James Braun, president of the Physicians Research Network, a New York-based not-for-profit organization of clinicians serving HIV patients, said the New York case comes as no surprise: ``We believe that the transmission of treatment-resistant HIV was a disaster waiting to happen, particularly in communities where safer sex is not practiced regularly


One of those times where it really, really, sucks to be right.
Posted By: Jeff Gannon Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-12 1:50 PM
Hey, if people would stop fornicating and sodomizing, there'd be no problem.

As it stands though, the adaptive nature of the virus ensures people better check themselves before deciding to behave immorally.

(edit: Check themselves as in morally, not medically)
Posted By: Jeff Gannon Re: Researchers claim: AIDS no more! - 2005-02-12 3:46 PM
Quote:

whomod said:
It sounds as if as long as only black people and gays get it, it's at a good comfort level for some.






Incredible!

A disease is a disease. It doesn't pick and choose it's victims. That being the case, is it anyones fault that the ones getting it the most are gays and blacks?

A little self-control goes a long way. If one is unable to do that, then sayonara, baby.

Typical liberal excuse-maker.
Posted By: Poverty Lad Re: Researchers claim: AIDS no more! - 2005-02-12 7:04 PM
Quote:

rex said:
It would help if the gays stopped spreading it.




tsk... Such self-loathing...
I think Jeff Gannon is actually whomod. Seriously.
Posted By: Poverty Lad Re: Researchers claim: AIDS no more! - 2005-02-12 7:54 PM
Whoa... that's deep.
Posted By: the G-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-12 7:58 PM
More bad news here:

    The threat that an entirely new AIDS epidemic might ravage the country sent shock waves through the medical community yesterday.

    The discovery of a virulent new strain of HIV that is resistant to three of the four types of drugs used to fight the virus means that all the recent advances in treatment may go from cutting edge to obsolete overnight, experts feared.

    "This is just scary. This just throws out the medicine chest," said Dr. Charles Gonzalez, an AIDS specialist at NYU Medical Center and Bellevue Hospital.


    "In the beginning of the AIDS crisis, we had no treatment. Again, we have absolutely no treatment," said Gonzalez, a member of a network that monitors new AIDS cases in New York. "Everything we're using now to treat this guy is jury-rigged."

    Drug-resistant HIV isn't new. But what makes this new bug unique is that it is resistant to 19 of the 20 drugs now on the market.

    "This may be the tip of the iceberg. It's going to get ugly," Gonzalez said. "If this one starts getting around, we're back to the early '80s."
Posted By: Ultimate Jaburg53 Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-12 8:03 PM
Here's the good news.

HIV/AIDS is preventable.

You can get free condoms, you can smoke heroine.

Let's get with the program.
Quote:

Jim Jackson said:
Quote:

rex said:
Cold sores aren't a political disease, therefore, not important.




AIDS is fare more than a political disease. Just ask anyone in sub-Saharan Africa.




sud-saharan Africa, a Mister Charles Darwin to see you.
Posted By: Im Not Mister Mxyzptlk Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-12 9:26 PM
Quote:

Ultimate Jaburg53 said:
You can get free condoms,




But if you do that the theory that Uncle God sent it to punish the sodomists and the sinful negros is gonna go to hell!!! No, we must prevent people from saving themselves from AIDS by saying something stupid, like, I don't know, it's morally wrong to put rubber in your cock, or something...
Posted By: the G-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-12 9:29 PM
Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
But if you do that the theory that Uncle God sent it to punish the sodomists and the sinful negros is gonna go to hell!!!




Not to mention the equally stupid theory that the CIA created it in a lab to kill black people and gays.
Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-12 9:33 PM
Quote:

the G-man said:
Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
But if you do that the theory that Uncle God sent it to punish the sodomists and the sinful negros is gonna go to hell!!!




Not to mention the equally stupid theory that the CIA created it in a lab to kill black people and gays.



http://carpenoctem.tv/cons/aids.html
The CIA has a now on-the-record history of testing various agents of biological weapons on civilian populations.
Posted By: PJP Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-12 9:34 PM
Quote:

the G-man said:
Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
But if you do that the theory that Uncle God sent it to punish the sodomists and the sinful negros is gonna go to hell!!!




Not to mention the equally stupid theory that the CIA created it in a lab to kill black people and gays.


you mean they didn't
Posted By: Ultimate Jaburg53 Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-12 9:35 PM
Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
Quote:

Ultimate Jaburg53 said:
You can get free condoms,




But if you do that the theory that Uncle God sent it to punish the sodomists and the sinful negros is gonna go to hell!!! No, we must prevent people from saving themselves from AIDS by saying something stupid, like, I don't know, it's morally wrong to put rubber in your cock, or something...




Yea, was Mother Teresa just looking for job security or what?
Posted By: Ultimate Jaburg53 Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-12 9:36 PM
Oh, and...

Every sperm is sacred

Every sperm is great

and if a sperm is wasted

God gets quite irate.
Posted By: Im Not Mister Mxyzptlk Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-12 9:40 PM
Quote:

the G-man said:
Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
But if you do that the theory that Uncle God sent it to punish the sodomists and the sinful negros is gonna go to hell!!!




Not to mention the equally stupid theory that the CIA created it in a lab to kill black people and gays.




Actually that one gets props for being funny and not creepy like the other one.
Posted By: Ultimate Jaburg53 Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-12 9:41 PM
And now for something completely diffrent...

The Banana fish.

Posted By: Ultimate Jaburg53 Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-12 9:42 PM
That wacky CIA, always causing trouble.
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-12 9:44 PM
i think the CIA created Pimp My Ride to kill white people....
Posted By: the G-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-12 9:47 PM
Quote:

Actually that one gets props for being funny and not creepy like the other one.




It's creepy when people believe it
Posted By: Im Not Mister Mxyzptlk Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-12 10:02 PM
I think it's funny when people believe it. On the other hand, it's creepy when people believe the God send it theory. At least the conspiracy nuts aren't on the side of the one they believe to be a monster.
Posted By: Ultimate Jaburg53 Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-12 10:06 PM
Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
I think it's funny when people believe it. On the other hand, it's creepy when people believe the God send it theory. At least the conspiracy nuts aren't on the side of the one they believe to be a monster.




I never thought of it like that. You make a good point.
Posted By: Im Not Mister Mxyzptlk Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-12 10:28 PM
My commie talk is dragging you in. Care for a baked baby?
Posted By: the G-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 12:06 AM
Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
At least the conspiracy nuts aren't on the side of the one they believe to be a monster.




But the other ones don't believe God to be a monster. They the monsters are the ones God is punishing.

Granted, that is bigoted and wrong headed attitude but it is hardly an uncommon one.

Most religions believe that their higher power punishes evil people, whether that higher power is God, Kharma or whatever.
Posted By: Ultimate Jaburg53 Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 12:07 AM
That's bad.
Posted By: Pariah Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 12:35 AM
Quote:

Ultimate Jaburg53
You can get free condoms, you can smoke heroine.




Or they could just remain celebate.


Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
I think it's funny when people believe it. On the other hand, it's creepy when people believe the God send it theory. At least the conspiracy nuts aren't on the side of the one they believe to be a monster.




As a Catholic, I do believe that God is the one that gave us cause and effect--Or it's more colloquial term: Karma. I, of course, don't believe that he was the one who set it in motion, humans did that. But still, when I take into mind negative effect, positive effect, I can't help but feel that AIDS is a form of punishment. And if it didn't arrive in this form, it prolly would have in another.
Posted By: the G-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 12:43 AM
I think punishment might be too strong a word.

I think "consequence", albeit unfortunate, would be more accurate, just as herpes might be a consequence of unprotected heterosexual intercourse.
Posted By: Pariah Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 12:48 AM
I s'pose. Considering there are people out there, who honestly don't buy that there is a God with a set morals rather than believe that there is/may be a God and just don't care. But it's the fact that it's so mass spread that gets me. Can't help but feel it's a bit more severe than a "consequence".
Posted By: Ultimate Jaburg53 Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 4:23 AM
Quote:

Pariah said:
Quote:

Ultimate Jaburg53
You can get free condoms, you can smoke heroine.




Or they could just remain celebate.







Good luck with that.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 4:32 AM
If God meant for AIDS to be some sort of message, he wasn't very clear. To many "innocents" also get punished. Is he rewarding me & my boyfriend for being monogamous for 14 years and the promiscuous types who wear condoms? I just don't think he works on a reward/punishment system untill you die & your then judged.
Posted By: Pig Iran Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 5:10 AM
Aren't most diseases fighting back?

I hate the whole AIDs getting special treatment bullshit. AIDs and HIV are preventable. TB, SARs and stuff like that are communicable and not sexually transmitted. Get a partner, and use a condom if you are having anal sex or sex with a strange partner. Sex in the world today is potentially life threatening...deal with it. Everything has consequences..whether you don't study in school, steal, kill someone, or have sex with multiple partners---deal with it , it's not my problem.
Posted By: Pig Iran Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 5:12 AM
Is it so wrong to not have a lot of compassion for someone with Herpes or Aids or any other type of VD? And basically AIDS is just the worst form of VD.
Posted By: backwards7 Re: Researchers claim: AIDS no more! - 2005-02-13 5:13 AM
Quote:

Rob Kamphausen said:


The research has targeted reverse transcriptase, a submiscroscopic protein composed of two coiled chains of amino acids. It is considered HIV's key protein.

"Reverse transcriptase is very important in the biology of AIDS," Smith said. "If you can really inhibit reverse transcriptase, you can stop AIDS."






I won’t explain this very well because I don’t properly understand it.

The HIV virus is a retrovirus. What this means is that its genome consists of RNA molecules. In order to infect the human body it uses the enzyme reverse transcriptase to encode a copy of its RNA genome onto a strand of DNA. This strand makes a further copy creating a double helix which can then integrate with cells in the host body.

Unfortunately the process is very untidy and inaccurate. The copy is never quite the same as the original and so the virus is in a constant state of rapid mutation and evolution. That’s the problem with HIV – it’s nigh impossible to treat a virus that is aggressively mutating all the time. It’s the reason why so many researchers are targeting reverse transcriptase in the hope of preventing the virus from making copies of itself in the first place.
Posted By: PJP Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 5:15 AM
There's nothing wrong with it....I agree....this little bastard that just go the new AIDS had sex with hundreds of partners......they are simply way too promiscuous.
Posted By: Ultimate Jaburg53 Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 5:45 AM
Quote:

Pig Iron said:
Is it so wrong to not have a lot of compassion for someone with Herpes or Aids or any other type of VD? And basically AIDS is just the worst form of VD.




It depends.

There is the rare case of person infected who had no choice. Rape Victims, babies born with HIV, people intentionally infected by other people. Them I feel bad for.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 8:10 AM
I suppose the lack of compassion is understandable if you guys are just dealing with imagined stereotypes getting what they asked for. Lots of good people have been lost
Posted By: Ultimate Jaburg53 Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 8:31 AM
I'm not dealing with imagined stereotypes who are getting what they asked for.

Were dealing with people who either remained ignorant the past almost twenty years, or completely ignored the warnings.

Are they getting what they deserve? Who am I to judge? That is between them and whatever god they believe in.

But I don't feel sorry for them.

I have as much feeling for them as people who have accidently killed themselves cleaning thier firearms.

It's not only drug addicts and homosexuals who contract HIV it could be anyone.
Posted By: PJP Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 10:07 AM
I agree with Jaburg
Posted By: Darknight613 Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 10:19 AM
Quote:

Ultimate Jaburg53 said:
Quote:

Pig Iron said:
Is it so wrong to not have a lot of compassion for someone with Herpes or Aids or any other type of VD? And basically AIDS is just the worst form of VD.




It depends.

There is the rare case of person infected who had no choice. Rape Victims, babies born with HIV, people intentionally infected by other people. Them I feel bad for.




Also, there have been cases of people who get blood transfusions that contain HIV (because idiotic medical staff don't screen blood carefully enough). Israeli singer Ofra Haza died as a result of this.

In countries where good health care is hard to come by, I'd imagine this type of thing could happen frequently.
Posted By: Jeff Gannon Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 2:02 PM
And then there are the cases where people get deliberately infected by these people who got it thru their own hedonistic revels and who want to spread their self-inflicted misfortune to others.

Case in point, this P.O.S. dentist:

AIDS: DENTIST ACCUSED OF INTENTIONALLY INFECTING PATIENTS

"AIDS Dentist Said to Plot Infections"

"National Briefs: AIDS Dentist's Kin Ordered to Testify"

Some pople do get it thru no fault of their own, either thru blood transfusions, thru their unfaithful or drug using spouses, or thru twisted means such as this AIDS dentist, but i'm sure the vast majority get it thru their own promiscuity or drug use.
Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 2:16 PM
Jeff, you're an Anti-dentite.
Posted By: PJP Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 3:03 PM
just shut the fuck up and get him a soda with lots of ice.
Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 3:19 PM
Quote:

PJP said:
just shut the fuck up and get him a soda with lots of ice.



with all the verbal abuse any beverage I ever gave you would be laced with enough urine to kill a thousand rabbits.
Posted By: PJP Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 3:25 PM
Then the right wing conspiracy would have to kill you and there would be one less person to vote for cunt hillary in '08 is that what you want.
Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 3:42 PM
Quote:

PJP said:
Then the right wing conspiracy would have to kill you and there would be one less person to vote for cunt hillary in '08 is that what you want.



cunt hillary? wow. that's a little crude, isn't it? despite my criticisms of Bush, you don't see me calling him dickBush.
Posted By: PJP Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 3:45 PM
why would you his name is George Bush......Vice President Cheney's first name is Dick.....duh
Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 4:03 PM
okay, obviously, you're not that bright. To make the analogy less confusing, what if I called him cock Bush.
Posted By: the G-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 5:02 PM
There's no doubt in my mind that Hillary Clinton is evil, but let's tone down the rhetoric. Calling her a cunt is unlikely to win over anyone and is probably the most offensive thing you can say about any woman.
Posted By: Ultimate Jaburg53 Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 7:12 PM
It's the show stopper!

It's the greatest word in the english language.
Posted By: Ultimate Jaburg53 Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 7:14 PM
Hillary is also an alien and it's being covered up by the CIA. R3x29yza has googled proof!
Posted By: backwards7 Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 7:38 PM
The safe sex message is one that bears repeating. We should be constantly looking for new ways to get the message across so that it doesn't just go in one ear and out the other. This morning I read an interview with Pekka Pushka in New Scientist. This is the man responsible for reducing deaths from coronary heart disease by 80% in the North Karelia region of Finland. It involved the population of that region making massive lifestyle changes and Pekka kept pushing the issue. He kept up the momentum and he didn’t let it go. Eventually people did begin to make changes to the way they lived and the death rate dropped dramatically. You can adopt a similar approach when it comes to promoting safe sex. It always has to be on the agenda.

Obviously pushing safe sex isn’t going to be enough on its own to halt the spread of HIV. When it comes to sex, people often act in the heat of the moment - that’s why there are unexpected pregnancies and affairs and people getting blind drunk and waking up next to total strangers.

There are also forces working against it. If someone in the church questions the efficacy of contraception or makes unfounded claims that the HIV virus is capable of passing through microscopic pores in condoms then there are people in Africa, where religion is still practised very deeply, who will believe it. These kind of off-hand statements which seldom have any grounding in hard science serve to undermine safe sex programmes often in very vulnerable areas.

On the satirical show Brass Eye there was a spoof audience debate in which Chris Morris distinguished between those who had "Good AIDS" (haemophiliacs, blood transplant patients) and those who had "Bad AIDS" (homosexuals, drug users). It was a very insightful piece of comedy picking up on a strain of public opinion that there are some people living with AIDS or HIV who deserve no pity and should be treated like pariahs.

You can sit and moralise about AIDS all you want. While you are doing that HIV is mutating into more virulent and more resistant forms and chemists such as Eddy Arnold, who deal with practicalities, are looking for workable methods of fighting the disease. They need more money and more support and they should be regarded as heroes.

When it comes to tackling AIDS, there needs to a coordinated global effort similar to the way that we fought to eradicate Polio and Small Pox, or the way in which we are currently attempting to contain a potential bird flu pandemic.
Posted By: Im Not Mister Mxyzptlk Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 7:58 PM
Quote:

the G-man said:But the other ones don't believe God to be a monster. They the monsters are the ones God is punishing.

Granted, that is bigoted and wrong headed attitude but it is hardly an uncommon one.





I think I didn't explain myself very well. It's exactly what you're saying what I find disturbing, and the fact that they don't believe God is a monster for doing that makes it even worse.
Posted By: Im Not Mister Mxyzptlk Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 7:59 PM
Quote:

Pariah said:As a Catholic, I do believe that God is the one that gave us cause and effect--Or it's more colloquial term: Karma. I, of course, don't believe that he was the one who set it in motion, humans did that. But still, when I take into mind negative effect, positive effect, I can't help but feel that AIDS is a form of punishment. And if it didn't arrive in this form, it prolly would have in another.




And this is what I'm talking about.
Posted By: Pariah Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 11:42 PM
I'm not isolating people who participate in pre-marital sex Mxy. Just sin itself.
Posted By: Pariah Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 11:45 PM
Quote:

backwards7 said:
There are also forces working against it. If someone in the church questions the efficacy of contraception or makes unfounded claims that the HIV virus is capable of passing through microscopic pores in condoms then there are people in Africa, where religion is still practised very deeply, who will believe it. These kind of off-hand statements which seldom have any grounding in hard science serve to undermine safe sex programmes often in very vulnerable areas.




Please explain. The Church has never made a claim like that, its motivations for banning porphylactics dwell in other areas.
Posted By: the G-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 11:50 PM
Actually, backwards7, I believe the biggest issue leading to lack of birth control in Africa is largely owing to a culture that believes in fertility and breeding on grounds unrelated to the Catholic faith:

http://www.agi-usa.org/pubs/journals/2905803.html
Posted By: Ultimate Jaburg53 Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-13 11:59 PM
Quote:

backwards7 said:
You can sit and moralise about AIDS all you want. While you are doing that HIV is mutating into more virulent and more resistant forms and chemists such as Eddy Arnold, who deal with practicalities, are looking for workable methods of fighting the disease. They need more money and more support and they should be regarded as heroes.

When it comes to tackling AIDS, there needs to a coordinated global effort similar to the way that we fought to eradicate Polio and Small Pox, or the way in which we are currently attempting to contain a potential bird flu pandemic.




I'm not saying we shouldn't fight it, and I'm not saying people infected no matter how they were infected shouldn't be cared for.

I also recognize that religion is responsible in most cases for further spread of the virus because of thier views and how they love to spread and sometimes force thier views on other people.

Mother Teresa for example, sure she cared for the African HIV victims, she helped treat thier wounds, but did she help the overall cause when she spoke out against condoms. I don't know what her views on abstenance were.

The people I have no compassion or pitty for are the average American/first world country type HIV victim. People who ignored numerous attempts and warnings to educate them. People who choose to ignore warnings.
Posted By: Ultimate Jaburg53 Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 12:03 AM
I do blame the Africans for not killing whitey as soon as he came tramping across the velt and desert with his bible.
Posted By: Im Not Mister Mxyzptlk Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 12:05 AM
Quote:

Pariah said:
I'm not isolating people who participate in pre-marital sex Mxy. Just sin itself.




But you're saying that, directly or indirectly, God created AIDS to punish us for being a sinful society. Not just gay people and drug addicts, there's plenty of other people who get AIDS without commiting 'sins', just like there's plenty of promiscous people who don't get AIDS. How do you explain that? Did God miscalculate the appliance of his wrath? Or did he decide to spare some sinners and punish some decent folk so people wouldn't suspect it was him? Maybe his PR people told him his kinder self of recent millenia had done wonders for his public image, so he should at least cover his tracks if he wants to start punishing us for not believing in him again.

How do you explain people who prevent AIDS by using condoms? Are they undoing God's will by doing something so simple? Is that why putting rubber in one's own cock offends catholics so much? "Take that rubber off your cock and get your damn divine wrath dammit!" If only the people in the old testament had thought of it, maybe all the plagues would have bypassed them.

How would you explain it if AIDS is cured, like all diseases eventually are? Did some guy with a test tube overpower God?

Even if I bought the whole "fornicating is bad and you'll die a horrible death if you do it so please take out that rubber off cause if you don't God's plan won't work" thing, I'd refuse to believe in a God who would punish people who haven't sinned while bypassing people who fuck like machines.
Posted By: Pig Iran Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 12:21 AM
Quote:

Ultimate Jaburg53 said:
I'm not dealing with imagined stereotypes who are getting what they asked for.

Were dealing with people who either remained ignorant the past almost twenty years, or completely ignored the warnings.

Are they getting what they deserve? Who am I to judge? That is between them and whatever god they believe in.

But I don't feel sorry for them.

I have as much feeling for them as people who have accidently killed themselves cleaning thier firearms.

It's not only drug addicts and homosexuals who contract HIV it could be anyone.




That's what I was trying to say... I wish death on no one except pedophiles, rapists, and cold blooded murderers (not self-defense).
Posted By: Pariah Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 12:22 AM
First of all, I didn't say God created AIDS. I said we did, and then followed through with the system he created for the (I guess G-man did say it best) consequences to rain down upon ourselves.

And second of all, condoms shouldn't have been needed in a the first place, and they shouldn't be needed now.
Posted By: Im Not Mister Mxyzptlk Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 12:37 AM
According to you. Not everyone lives by your same values.
Posted By: Pariah Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 12:40 AM
You're trying to express how my values are inconsistent. I'm defending them.

You're the one who picked the playing field.
Posted By: Im Not Mister Mxyzptlk Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 12:47 AM
I never said the discussion should be within the boundaries of your values. I still don't see why people shouldn't practice pre-marital sex if they don't believe in the bible.

It's funny, yet deeply tragic, that the no condoms rule has been enforced so much (I don't believe no masturbation has been enforced that much, yet it's the same wasted seed principle) that people exist who practice premarital sex but don't rubber up for fear of offending God, and in some cases end up getting diseases.
Posted By: Pariah Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 12:51 AM
A-B-S-T-I-N-E-N-C-E
Posted By: Im Not Mister Mxyzptlk Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 1:01 AM
W-H-Y?
Posted By: backwards7 Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 1:35 AM
Quote:

Pariah said:
Quote:

backwards7 said:
There are also forces working against it. If someone in the church questions the efficacy of contraception or makes unfounded claims that the HIV virus is capable of passing through microscopic pores in condoms then there are people in Africa, where religion is still practised very deeply, who will believe it. These kind of off-hand statements which seldom have any grounding in hard science serve to undermine safe sex programmes often in very vulnerable areas.




Please explain. The Church has never made a claim like that, its motivations for banning porphylactics dwell in other areas.





I was referring to this story:

Vatican: condoms don't stop Aids - Guardian

Quote:

Vatican: condoms don't stop Aids

Steve Bradshaw
Thursday October 9, 2003
The Guardian

The Catholic Church is telling people in countries stricken by Aids not to use condoms because they have tiny holes in them through which HIV can pass - potentially exposing thousands of people to risk.

The church is making the claims across four continents despite a widespread scientific consensus that condoms are impermeable to HIV.

A senior Vatican spokesman backs the claims about permeable condoms, despite assurances by the World Health Organisation that they are untrue.

The church's claims are revealed in a BBC1 Panorama programme, Sex and the Holy City, to be broadcast on Sunday. The president of the Vatican's Pontifical Council for the Family, Cardinal Alfonso Lopez Trujillo, told the programme: "The Aids virus is roughly 450 times smaller than the spermatozoon. The spermatozoon can easily pass through the 'net' that is formed by the condom.

"These margins of uncertainty... should represent an obligation on the part of the health ministries and all these campaigns to act in the same way as they do with regard to cigarettes, which they state to be a danger."

The WHO has condemned the Vatican's views, saying: "These incorrect statements about condoms and HIV are dangerous when we are facing a global pandemic which has already killed more than 20 million people, and currently affects at least 42 million."

The organisation says "consistent and correct" condom use reduces the risk of HIV infection by 90%. There may be breakage or slippage of condoms - but not, the WHO says, holes through which the virus can pass .

Scientific research by a group including the US National Institutes of Health and the WHO found "intact condoms... are essentially impermeable to particles the size of STD pathogens including the smallest sexually transmitted virus... condoms provide a highly effective barrier to transmission of particles of similar size to those of the smallest STD viruses".

The Vatican's Cardinal Trujillo said: "They are wrong about that... this is an easily recognisable fact."

The church opposes any kind of contraception because it claims it breaks the link between sex and procreation - a position Pope John Paul II has fought to defend.

In Kenya - where an estimated 20% of people have HIV - the church condemns condoms for promoting promiscuity and repeats the claim about permeability. The archbishop of Nairobi, Raphael Ndingi Nzeki, said: "Aids... has grown so fast because of the availability of condoms."

Sex and the Holy City includes a Catholic nun advising her HIV-infected choirmaster against using condoms with his wife because "the virus can pass through".

In Lwak, near Lake Victoria, the director of an Aids testing centre says he cannot distribute condoms because of church opposition. Gordon Wambi told the programme: "Some priests have even been saying that condoms are laced with HIV/Aids."

Panorama found the claims about permeable condoms repeated by Catholics as far apart as Asia and Latin America.



Posted By: Pariah Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 2:14 AM
That's odd. I never heard that before.
Posted By: Pariah Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 2:15 AM
Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
W-H-Y?




Cuz' you increase your chances 97% of not contracting. That's why.

Prolly won't have to say that it was your fault.
Posted By: Im Not Mister Mxyzptlk Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 2:26 AM
What about condoms? You considerably increase your chance of not contracting that way too.
Posted By: PJP Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 2:28 AM
too constricting
Posted By: Pariah Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 6:31 AM
Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
What about condoms? You considerably increase your chance of not contracting that way too.




Yeah, you're right Mxy. Condoms are a lot safer than abstinence, you are so damn right Mxy.
Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 6:58 AM
Quote:

Pariah said:
Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
What about condoms? You considerably increase your chance of not contracting that way too.




Yeah, you're right Mxy. Condoms are a lot safer than abstinence, you are so damn right Mxy.



I think the best quote I heard on this issue was something along the lines of "the only 100% way to avoid a car crash is to not drive, but the government still spends millions per year advertising seat belts."
Posted By: Ultimate Jaburg53 Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 7:55 AM
Oh, and wash your hands people. I can't stress that enough.
Posted By: Barney Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 8:16 AM
Wash your hands before you eat!
Give those germs a good clean sweep!
Posted By: Pariah Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 8:26 AM
Quote:

r3x29yz4a said:
I think the best quote I heard on this issue was something along the lines of "the only 100% way to avoid a car crash is to not drive, but the government still spends millions per year advertising seat belts."




Sho'nuff r3x. Car crashes are entirely similar to AIDS.
Posted By: Ultimate Jaburg53 Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 8:26 AM
That's the stuff.
Posted By: MisterJLA Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 8:57 AM
Quote:

Barney said:
Wash your hands before you eat!
Give those germs a good clean sweep!




Hi Barney.
Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 8:57 AM
Quote:

Pariah said:
Quote:

r3x29yz4a said:
I think the best quote I heard on this issue was something along the lines of "the only 100% way to avoid a car crash is to not drive, but the government still spends millions per year advertising seat belts."




Sho'nuff r3x. Car crashes are entirely similar to AIDS.



Its a metaphor, genius.
Posted By: Steve T Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 12:27 PM
Quote:

Pariah said:
Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
What about condoms? You considerably increase your chance of not contracting that way too.




Yeah, you're right Mxy. Condoms are a lot safer than abstinence, you are so damn right Mxy.




You appear to have suffered a comprehension breakdown!
Please read again, he didn't say that!
Have a nice day!
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 4:10 PM
While abstinence certainley would prevent catching diseases, it's not a realistic solution.
Posted By: the G-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 4:27 PM
Now the "Super AIDS" has shown up in Boston:

    Massachusetts doctors have reported several HIV patients with a resistance to some of the most commonly prescribed treatments, raising further concerns about a possible new, drug-resistant strain of the virus.
    The patients' resistance to drug treatment is similar to a New York City case that has sparked widespread concern among public-health experts, the Boston Herald reported.

    "There is global concern that there may be an increasing amount of patients who have a resistant virus," said Dr. Gregory Robbins of Massachusetts General Hospital.
Posted By: backwards7 Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 4:34 PM
I wonder if it is possible to make the process in which HIV transcribes itself from RNA to DNA more reliable so that copies are identical to the originals and there is no mutation. It sounds counter-intuitive because you would be assisting the passage of the disease into the human body. However if you can stifle the mutation that occurs on a massive scale as a result of this process then you are effectively pinning the virus down – preventing it from evolving. If you can do that then when it comes to treatment you are aiming at a sitting duck as opposed to a fast moving target that is capable of completely changing its identity every 6 weeks.
Posted By: the G-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 7:24 PM
The Chicago Tribune is now reporting it in San Diego and, not suprisingly, San Francisco.
Posted By: Captain Sammitch Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 8:42 PM
Quote:

Matter-eater Man said:
While abstinence certainley would prevent catching diseases, it's not a realistic solution.




Yeah, because we can't possibly bring ourselves to simply not have sex. Unthinkable!
Posted By: Im Not Mister Mxyzptlk Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 9:25 PM
Quote:

Pariah said:
Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
What about condoms? You considerably increase your chance of not contracting that way too.




Yeah, you're right Mxy. Condoms are a lot safer than abstinence, you are so damn right Mxy.




I'm glad we finally agree on something. Though I can't see the part where I said condoms were safer than abstinence...
Posted By: Emperor Joker Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 9:37 PM
Don't you people know that abstinence makes the heart grow fonder? Oh, it's true! Nobody you've ever dated can call you and depress you with "I have AIDS." cause you didn't give it to them.

Of course, some of us don't need aides to kill and maim.

Wait.. how dare you all lead me to using bad punnery! Off with your heads!
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 10:36 PM
Quote:

Captain Sammitch said:
Quote:

Matter-eater Man said:
While abstinence certainley would prevent catching diseases, it's not a realistic solution.




Yeah, because we can't possibly bring ourselves to simply not have sex. Unthinkable!




Well if you consider the problems that the church has with it's Priest & Nuns on the celabacy thing, yeah there are going to still be regular folk having premarital sex no matter how much you push abstinence. I'm not saying it's not worth pushing but its never been a solution. The only difference these days is guys don't have to marry the gal if he gets her nocked up.
Posted By: the G-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 10:47 PM
It is interesting to note that AIDS did not gain a world wide toehold until the years after the "sexual revolution" more or less told people to mock the ideas of abstinence and monogamy.
Posted By: wannabuyamonkey Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-14 11:24 PM
Quote:

Matter-eater Man said:
While abstinence certainley would prevent catching diseases, it's not a realistic solution.




Yea that would assume that somehow human beings had the ability to make decisions for them selves and weren't crazed animals ruled by thier base urges.
Posted By: Pariah Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-15 12:00 AM
Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
I'm glad we finally agree on something. Though I can't see the part where I said condoms were safer than abstinence...




I figured you were trying to be logical. You know, better to pick the safest route. And apparently, abstinence isn't as safe as condoms in your book.....Or are you saying otherwise and just being witty? I can't tell.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-15 5:23 AM
Quote:

the G-man said:
It is interesting to note that AIDS did not gain a world wide toehold until the years after the "sexual revolution" more or less told people to mock the ideas of abstinence and monogamy.




I think many factors play into events leading to AIDS gaining a toehold. WW2, technology improvements, birth control & people not farming & moving to the city. Need I mention homosexuality being taboo was a big help to spreading the virus.
Posted By: the G-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-15 5:27 AM
Actually, the virus spread as the taboo against homosexuality lessened.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-15 5:32 AM
Quote:

wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:

Matter-eater Man said:
While abstinence certainley would prevent catching diseases, it's not a realistic solution.




Yea that would assume that somehow human beings had the ability to make decisions for them selves and weren't crazed animals ruled by thier base urges.




I agree but don't most people know about abstinence already (not to mention safe sex) So are we talking about abstinence education or maybe abstinence training (like a dog)?
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-15 5:42 AM
Quote:

the G-man said:
Actually, the virus spread as the taboo against homosexuality lessened.




Just barely though. The rest stop/bathhouse sex didn't start happening because the taboo lessoned. Those behaviors took root & blossomed long before then.
Posted By: Captain Sammitch Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-15 6:06 AM
Quote:

Matter-eater Man said:
Well if you consider the problems that the church has with it's Priest & Nuns on the celabacy thing, yeah there are going to still be regular folk having premarital sex no matter how much you push abstinence. I'm not saying it's not worth pushing but its never been a solution. The only difference these days is guys don't have to marry the gal if he gets her nocked up.




Well met. But how prevalent are these problems in the Catholic church you're referring to? (Note - I'm not Catholic so don't take this as some sort of challenge.) I'll concede that no matter how much abstinence is promoted people will still not listen. But referring to the aforementioned car-crash analogy, a lot of people die in car crashes because they don't wear their seat belts. Do we decide that seat belts aren't worth putting in there because some people don't wear them anyway? Then why do we use the same sort of argument when it comes to abstinence?
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-15 6:18 AM
I think they'll have the official stats posted the day after judgement day:D But I'm not poo poohing abstinence education. I am of the opinion that by itself is not the solution. There was a thread about abstinence clubs & I think thats great but do you think that type of thing is the answer to the problem?
Posted By: Im Not Mister Mxyzptlk Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-15 6:54 AM
Quote:

Pariah said:I figured you were trying to be logical. You know, better to pick the safest route. And apparently, abstinence isn't as safe as condoms in your book.....Or are you saying otherwise and just being witty? I can't tell.




It's obvious that abstinence is safer than using condoms, but is the percentage big enough to make a considerable difference? Don't condoms protect you like 99.9% of the time? There's a small chance of contracting the disease, but that small chance always exists, even with people who practice abstinence, because of cases like blood transfusions and the like.
Posted By: Captain Sammitch Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-15 8:47 AM
Quote:

Matter-eater Man said:
I think they'll have the official stats posted the day after judgement day:D But I'm not poo poohing abstinence education. I am of the opinion that by itself is not the solution. There was a thread about abstinence clubs & I think thats great but do you think that type of thing is the answer to the problem?




Heh. He said poo.

Maybe you just came across differently. I dunno. Sometimes I misread subtleties - which is understandable since all we have to go on is words somebody else types.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-15 9:00 AM
Quote:

Captain Sammitch said:
...
Maybe you just came across differently. I dunno. Sometimes I misread subtleties - which is understandable since all we have to go on is words somebody else types.




Yeah I wasn't very clear. So is abstinence education the only thing on the table? Anybody for radically changing things. If so, what?
Posted By: PaulWellr Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-15 9:01 AM
Abstinence is easy when no one wants to fuck you, innit?
Posted By: Pariah Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-15 9:41 AM
Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
It's obvious that abstinence is safer than using condoms, but is the percentage big enough to make a considerable difference? Don't condoms protect you like 99.9% of the time? There's a small chance of contracting the disease, but that small chance always exists,--




Your guestimated percentage aside, there is less chance with condoms. But whatever the circumstances, there's still a lot less chance....

Quote:

--even with people who practice abstinence, because of cases like blood transfusions and the like.




With this.

So please, stop trying to make one sound just as good as the other, because that's patently false.
Posted By: Im Not Mister Mxyzptlk Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-15 6:32 PM
I made a simple question. Does that a lot constitute a big enough percentage to make a considerable difference? I don't think so. Using condoms is not technically just as good as abstinence, but practically it is. The only big difference is that one "offends God" and the other doesn't, which is your real motivation.
Posted By: Ultimate Jaburg53 Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-15 6:38 PM
Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
I made a simple question. Does that a lot constitute a big enough percentage to make a considerable difference? I don't think so. Using condoms is not technically just as good as abstinence, but practically it is. The only big difference is that one "offends God" and the other doesn't, which is your real motivation.




Condoms can fail. They can break. They can't be near as safe as abstinence.
Posted By: Im Not Mister Mxyzptlk Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-15 6:39 PM
What's the failure percentage, is what I'm asking.
Posted By: Ultimate Jaburg53 Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-15 6:43 PM
Probably over 10% depending on the brand.
Posted By: Ultimate Jaburg53 Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-15 6:45 PM
Also there are condoms out there that offer no protection from HIV, it's just there to prevent conception of a child.
Posted By: the G-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-16 2:02 AM
This is from a most-likely biased source but if true it's interesting:

    USAID refuses to release report that shows abstinence works in HIV prevention

    Washington DC, Feb. 15, 2005 (CNA) - The U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) has shelved a study that highlights the effectiveness of abstinence education in reducing HIV infection and has commissioned a second study to a researcher known to advocate condom distribution instead.

    Focus on the Family has urged key members of Congress to look into why a government health agency, charged with dispersing funds to HIV-prevention efforts in Africa, is contradicting Bush administration policy that supports abstinence education.

    The issue is examined in depth in the March issue of Focus on the Family’s Citizen Magazine, which has been mailed to hundreds of senators and congressmen. The cover story, titled "Burying the Truth," examines the research being suppressed, which was conducted by Harvard scientist Edward C. Green, a self-described "secular liberal."
Posted By: backwards7 Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-16 2:40 AM
This state of affairs is ridiculous; these stupid power struggles that go on between individuals or organisations pushing a political or moral agenda beggar belief. They cost lives too.

Safe sex education needs to reach as many people as possible which means that it has to stick with the facts – no moralising or philosophy – when you begin venturing down that road you lose people. It has to spell out accepted medical truths in as blunt and simple fashion as is possible.

By sticking with teaching the facts - you represent all perspectives but you so in an objective way.

Furthermore you have people’s trust. They know you are not bullshitting them. If people think that the safe sex information they are receiving is hitched to some kind of moral agenda and they don’t happen to agree with that agenda then they will not listen. You have to give as much factual information as is possible.

The fact remains if you abstain from sex then your chances of catching an STD are dramatically reduced.

If you choose to have sex but make correct use of a condom while you are not completely free from the risk of infection your chances of catching something are minimal.

If you have unprotected sex with multiple partners you are placing yourself and others at a high risk.

At the heart of safe sex is simple common sense knowledge that everyone knows.
Posted By: Pariah Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-16 7:12 AM
Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
I made a simple question. Does that a lot constitute a big enough percentage to make a considerable difference? I don't think so. Using condoms is not technically just as good as abstinence, but practically it is.




Mxy, don't be the ignorant slut you love to dress yourself up to be. What do you think you're closer to when you're having sex as opposed to not having sex? In which situation do you think those 90 some percent chances will start to waver?

Quote:

The only big difference is that one "offends God" and the other doesn't, which is your real motivation.




Get off your high horse already. You act like I think AIDS is a convenient excuse for me to peddle my beliefs, and its not........It's a convenient excuse for me to say, "I told ya so!" to stubborn fuckwits.

Anywho, we've been over this before. Just because I started off on this 'no sex' tangent cuz' of God, doesn't mean I stay with it solely cuz' of Him--And that sure as hell doesn't suddenly invalidate my other arguments.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-16 9:21 AM
Abstinence is 100 percent effective but teens loaded with hormones & a lack of maturity are not all going to practice abstinence. That 99. whatever percent that a condom has is better odds on prom night.
Posted By: Pariah Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-16 11:01 AM
You know what, I'm not gonna tolerate those 'teens aren't gonna abide it' arguments. Let them have their condoms, fine. But make sure to scare the hell out of em' with AIDS if possible. Teens today aren't stupid and that's one of the reasons why I don't find what you say to be useful, but here's to hoping after you show them enough pictures of victims with sypholis and AIDS.
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-16 4:07 PM
So there is an Abstinence Program with 100% success rate? I grew up in a strict Catholic rural area. Abstinence was preached, birth control was bad & we saw lots of nasty VD pics in Health class. Kids still had sex. Heck even my folks told each of us kids that if we performed those adult activities we would be immediatley be out of the house. I was the only one who followed through on that
Posted By: Steve T Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-16 5:49 PM
There was one well publicised campaign that initially appeared to be successful as kids waited longer before having sex (though most gave in to the urge before marriage). However STDs and prgnancies experienced an insignificant drop because of the enfored ignorance.

Just as our current system is too far on one side, the abstinence program was too far on the other.
Posted By: Pariah Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-17 2:04 AM
Quote:

Matter-eater Man said:
So there is an Abstinence Program with 100% success rate? I grew up in a strict Catholic rural area. Abstinence was preached, birth control was bad & we saw lots of nasty VD pics in Health class. Kids still had sex. Heck even my folks told each of us kids that if we performed those adult activities we would be immediatley be out of the house. I was the only one who followed through on that




You must not have read a thing I said.

Your implication that condoms themselves have a high success rate as opposed to abstinece programs isn't a very good crutch. Just so's you know. Hell, I was in a Catholic community and visted Catholic schools and the abstinence program was highly successful. Just goes to show you that basing this off of singular events is rather flawed.
Posted By: Im Not Mister Mxyzptlk Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-17 4:26 AM
Quote:

Pariah said:
Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
I made a simple question. Does that a lot constitute a big enough percentage to make a considerable difference? I don't think so. Using condoms is not technically just as good as abstinence, but practically it is.




Mxy, don't be the ignorant slut you love to dress yourself up to be. What do you think you're closer to when you're having sex as opposed to not having sex? In which situation do you think those 90 some percent chances will start to waver?

Quote:

The only big difference is that one "offends God" and the other doesn't, which is your real motivation.




Get off your high horse already. You act like I think AIDS is a convenient excuse for me to peddle my beliefs, and its not........It's a convenient excuse for me to say, "I told ya so!" to stubborn fuckwits.

Anywho, we've been over this before. Just because I started off on this 'no sex' tangent cuz' of God, doesn't mean I stay with it solely cuz' of Him--And that sure as hell doesn't suddenly invalidate my other arguments.




Calm down man, I admit I was wrong about the safety of condoms themselves... I had the wrong idea and I admit it.

But what about having a stable sex partner, one you can really trust to be clean from any STDs? What would be your basis for being against that as I'm assuming you are?

Or, let's put it this way, what if an anti-conceptive 100% effective was invented... would you still be against it, and why?
Posted By: Pariah Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-17 10:55 AM
Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
But what about having a stable sex partner, one you can really trust to be clean from any STDs? What would be your basis for being against that as I'm assuming you are?




I'm speaking from a purely secular view point right now. So I don't have a problem with it.

Quote:

Or, let's put it this way, what if an anti-conceptive 100% effective was invented... would you still be against it, and why?




I wouldn't be against it. I'd just be against more confidence being put in it rather than abstinence.
Posted By: Im Not Mister Mxyzptlk Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-17 8:55 PM
I'm glad. The church probably wouldn't be as open-minded as you, though.
Posted By: Captain Sammitch Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-17 9:32 PM
Which church?
Posted By: Im Not Mister Mxyzptlk Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-17 10:09 PM
The one that doesn't like premarital sex.
Posted By: the G-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-02-21 1:24 AM
From Newsweek:

    News that a gay meth user in New York who had hundreds of unsafe sexual encounters may carry a virulent, drug-resistant strain of HIV has forced health officials and gay community leaders to take a sobering look at the growing role crystal methamphetamine is playing in the spread of AIDS. Doctors are unsure whether the new strain is an isolated case or the precursor of a deadly new wave of HIV. But it's clear that a dangerous nexus has formed between the nation's two big epidemics: AIDS and methamphetamine abuse.


Posted By: the G-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-12-11 5:45 PM
Winnie Mandela Preaches Abstinence

    Winnie Madikizela-Mandela has come out firmly and vehemently in favour of sexual abstinence as the only efficient way to fight the spread of Aids.

    Speaking at the International Conference on Aids and Sexually Transmitted Infections in Africa (ICASA) in Abuja, Nigeria, on Thursday, Madikizela-Mandela said: "We just have to tell our children to abstain. That's the only way we will prevent Aids as mothers on the continent.

    "And we tell our daughters it's a very simple remedy, it's called abstinence."
Posted By: Eric Theodore Cartman Re: AIDS fights back - 2005-12-11 10:41 PM
"We just have to tell our children to abstain. That's the only way we will prevent Aids as mothers on the continent."

"And we tell our daughters it's a very simple remedy, it's called abstinence."

Ah, well gee whiz, you think so? Let's invent a new way to change the channel without getting out of our sofas while we're on the subject of innovation, Einstein!

Seriously, you guys. If some ex lady friend called me up and said "I have AIDS," I'd be like "Hey! You get your skanky infestated bitch ass back to the doctor and get you some band-AIDS."
Posted By: the G-man Freakonomics, Gay Sex and AIDS - 2005-12-11 11:13 PM
New York Times Magazine:

    What is a price?

    Unless you're an economist, you probably think of a price as simply the amount you pay for a given thing.

    But to an economist, price is a much broader concept. The 20 minutes you spend waiting for a table is part of the price (of a meal in a restaurant for example). There are moral and social costs to tally as well - for instance, the look of scorn delivered by your vegan dining partner as you order the burger. While the restaurant's menu may list the price of the cheeseburger at $7.95, that is clearly just the beginning.

    The most fundamental rule of economics is that a rise in price leads to less quantity demanded. This holds true for a restaurant meal, a real-estate deal, a college education or just about anything else you can think of. When the price of an item rises, you buy less of it (which is not to say, of course, that you want less of it).

    But what about sex? Sex, that most irrational of human pursuits, couldn't possibly respond to rational price theory, could it?

    Outside of a few obvious situations, we generally don't think about sex in terms of prices. Prostitution is one such situation; courtship is another: certain men seem to consider an expensive dinner a prudent investment in pursuit of a sexual dividend.

    But how might price changes affect sexual behavior? And might those changes have something to tell us about the nature of sex itself?

    Here is a stark example: A man who is sent to prison finds that the price of sex with a woman has spiked - talk about a supply shortage - and he becomes much more likely to start having sex with men. The reported prevalence of oral sex among affluent American teenagers would also seem to illustrate price theory: because of the possibility of disease or pregnancy, intercourse is expensive - and it has come to be seen by some teenagers as an unwanted and costly pledge of commitment. In this light, oral sex may be viewed as a cheaper alternative.

    In recent decades, we have witnessed the most exorbitant new price associated with sex: the H.I.V. virus. Because AIDS is potentially deadly and because it can be spread relatively easily by sex between two men, the onset of AIDS in the early 1980's caused a significant increase in the price of gay sex.

    While the use of a condom greatly reduces the risk of contracting AIDS, a condom is, of course, yet another cost associated with sex. In a study of Mexican prostitution, the Berkeley economist Paul Gertler and two co-authors showed that when a client requested sex without a condom, a prostitute was typically paid a 24 percent premium over her standard fee.

    Andrew Francis, a graduate student in economics at the University of Chicago, has tried to affix a dollar figure to this change. Francis, in a draft paper titled "The Economics of Sexuality," tries to go well beyond dollar figures. He puts forth an empirical argument that may fundamentally challenge how people think about sex.

    As with any number of behaviors that social scientists try to measure, sex is a tricky subject. But Francis discovered a data set that offered some intriguing possibilities. The National Health and Social Life Survey, sponsored by the U.S. government and a handful of foundations, asked almost 3,500 people a rather astonishing variety of questions about sex: the different sexual acts received and performed and with whom and when; questions about sexual preference and identity; whether they knew anyone with AIDS. As with any self-reported data, there was the chance that the survey wasn't reliable, but it had been designed to ensure anonymity and generate honest replies.

    The survey was conducted in 1992, when the disease was much less treatable than it is today. Francis first looked to see if there was a positive correlation between having a friend with AIDS and expressing a preference for homosexual sex. As he expected, there was. "After all, people pick their friends," he says, "and homosexuals are more likely to have other homosexuals as friends."

    But you don't get to pick your family. So Francis next looked for a correlation between having a relative with AIDS and expressing a homosexual preference. This time, for men, the correlation was negative. This didn't seem to make sense. Many scientists believe that a person's sexual orientation is determined before birth, a function of genetic fate. If anything, people in the same family should be more likely to share the same orientation. "Then I realized, Oh, my God, they were scared of AIDS," Francis says.

    Francis zeroed in on this subset of about 150 survey respondents who had a relative with AIDS. Because the survey compiled these respondents' sexual histories as well as their current answers about sex, it allowed Francis to measure, albeit crudely, how their lives may have changed as a result of having seen up close the costly horrors of AIDS.

    Here's what he found: Not a single man in the survey who had a relative with AIDS said he had had sex with a man in the previous five years; not a single man in that group declared himself to be attracted to men or to consider himself homosexual. Women in that group also shunned sex with men. For them, rates of recent sex with women and of declaring homosexual identity and attraction were more than twice as high as those who did not have a relative with AIDS.

    Because the sample size was so small - simple chance suggests that no more than a handful of men in a group that size would be attracted to men - it is hard to reach definitive conclusions from the survey data. (Obviously, not every single man changes his sexual behavior or identity when a relative contracts AIDS.) But taken as a whole, the numbers in Francis's study suggest that there may be a causal effect here - that having a relative with AIDS may change not just sexual behavior but also self-reported identity and desire.

    In other words, sexual preference, while perhaps largely predetermined, may also be subject to the forces more typically associated with economics than biology. If this turns out to be true, it would change the way that everyone - scientists, politicians, theologians - thinks about sexuality. But it probably won't much change the way economists think. To them, it has always been clear: whether we like it or not, everything has its price.
Posted By: Pariah Re: AIDS fights back - 2006-02-14 3:52 PM
Quote:

Ultimate Jaburg53 said:
Or they could just remain celebate.




Good luck with that.




I don't need luck.........Yeah.
Posted By: Killconey Re: AIDS fights back - 2006-02-14 7:51 PM
Quote:

Pariah said:
Quote:

Ultimate Jaburg53 said:
Or they could just remain celebate.




Good luck with that.




I don't need luck.........Yeah.




Yeah, no one wants to not have sex.
Posted By: magicjay38 Re: AIDS fights back - 2006-02-14 8:12 PM
Abstinance is not an option. Just say YES, but always play safe!
Posted By: Captain Sammitch Re: AIDS fights back - 2006-02-14 8:16 PM


I had no idea we humans lacked the self-control to practice abstinence.
Posted By: Pig Iran Re: AIDS fights back - 2006-02-14 8:20 PM
does abstinence mean Rex can't use a sock???
Posted By: magicjay38 Re: AIDS fights back - 2006-02-14 8:26 PM
Quote:

Captain Sammitch said:


I had no idea we humans lacked the self-control to practice abstinence.






But why would anyone desire such a thing? The nice thing about that kind of thinking is the bastards that think it aren't likely to reproduce! Give in to your lust - see where it will take you!
Posted By: Captain Sammitch Re: AIDS fights back - 2006-02-14 11:56 PM
Not all the consequences of poor sexual self-control are physical. I prefer not trivializing my capacity for physical and emotional intimacy, thank you.
Posted By: magicjay38 Re: AIDS fights back - 2006-02-15 8:24 PM
Quote:

Captain Sammitch said:
Not all the consequences of poor sexual self-control are physical. I prefer not trivializing my capacity for physical and emotional intimacy, thank you.




Apparently you're not interested in expanding that capacity either. A single scoop of vanilla for the Cap'n, please.
Posted By: Captain Sammitch Re: AIDS fights back - 2006-02-16 3:06 AM
When I see an inadequacy in my capacity for intimacy, I'll be willing to look into ways of changing that. Personally, I'm not adequately dissatisfied with my personal life to take chances that are just as likely to ruin it as to improve it.

I'd like to point out that I'm not the one instructing you on how to conduct your personal life.
Posted By: Killconey Re: AIDS fights back - 2006-02-16 4:00 AM
Take that 1950's society!
Posted By: Captain Sammitch Re: AIDS fights back - 2006-02-16 6:58 AM
Posted By: magicjay38 Re: AIDS fights back - 2006-02-17 5:42 AM
Quote:

Captain Sammitch said:
When I see an inadequacy in my capacity for intimacy, I'll be willing to look into ways of changing that. Personally, I'm not adequately dissatisfied with my personal life to take chances that are just as likely to ruin it as to improve it.

I'd like to point out that I'm not the one instructing you on how to conduct your personal life.




I hate it when those that are sexually disabled act sanctimonius about their "purity". We have a lot in common Cap'n. Neither of us cares about sex. You care so little you don't do it with anyone. I care so little I'll do it with everyone. Excepting G-man and Pariah of course.
Posted By: the G-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2006-02-17 5:48 AM
I'll try to contain my disappointment.
Posted By: Captain Sammitch Re: AIDS fights back - 2006-02-17 7:09 PM
Quote:

magicjay38 said [emphasis added]:
Quote:

Captain Sammitch said:
When I see an inadequacy in my capacity for intimacy, I'll be willing to look into ways of changing that. Personally, I'm not adequately dissatisfied with my personal life to take chances that are just as likely to ruin it as to improve it.

I'd like to point out that I'm not the one instructing you on how to conduct your personal life.




I hate it when those that are sexually disabled act sanctimonius about their "purity". We have a lot in common Cap'n. Neither of us cares about sex. You care so little you don't do it with anyone. I care so little I'll do it with everyone. Excepting G-man and Pariah of course.






What in the flying FUCK are you talking about? Sexually disabled? You don't know me! I choose what I do - I have the options. One might wonder if it's not some sort of psychological or emotional dysfunction to show absolutely no restraint.

Maybe you should stop being so intolerant of others' sexual choices.
Posted By: magicjay38 Re: AIDS fights back - 2006-02-17 7:57 PM
Quote:

Captain Sammitch said:

Maybe you should stop being so intolerant of others' sexual choices.





I will if you will!
Posted By: Killconey Re: AIDS fights back - 2006-02-17 8:45 PM
Geeze, when did this turn into the bitch about each other's sex lives thread?
Posted By: magicjay38 Re: AIDS fights back - 2006-02-18 5:44 AM
Quote:

Killconey said:
Geeze, when did this turn into the bitch about each other's sex lives thread?




It's my fault! Sometimes I can't resist teasing Sammitch! You'd never guess I'm a subbie, would you?
Posted By: the G-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2006-02-18 6:29 AM
Quote:

magicjay38 said:
Quote:

Killconey said:
Geeze, when did this turn into the bitch about each other's sex lives thread?




It's my fault! Sometimes I can't resist teasing Sammitch! You'd never guess I'm a subbie, would you?




You can breathe underwater?

Posted By: the G-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2006-02-18 6:30 AM
But seriously...I, for one, am grateful for Jay's posts. They tend to demonstrate the mindset that allows viruses to adapt and florish...unfortunately.

It's a valuable lesson to us all.

But, anyway, this is supposed to be a thread about AIDS, not a thread about homosexual rights, the merits of sexual openness or whatever. God knows we have enough "gays vs gay bashers" threads here already.

We've been told that AIDS is not a "gay disease". I'm willing to accept that. However, when gay activists seemingly disparage or belittle efforts to contain it, its difficult to treat it as anything but.
Posted By: magicjay38 Re: AIDS fights back - 2006-02-18 8:34 AM
Quote:

the G-man said:
But seriously...I, for one, am grateful for Jay's posts. They tend to demonstrate the mindset that allows viruses to adapt and florish...unfortunately.

It's a valuable lesson to us all.

But, anyway, this is supposed to be a thread about AIDS, not a thread about homosexual rights, the merits of sexual openness or whatever. God knows we have enough "gays vs gay bashers" threads here already.

We've been told that AIDS is not a "gay disease". I'm willing to accept that. However, when gay activists seemingly disparage or belittle efforts to contain it, its difficult to treat it as anything but.




Quote:

Magicjay38 said:


Abstinance is not an option. Just say YES, but always play safe!






That's what started it. I advocated for safe sex as opposed to no sex. You, Pope Himmler and Jerry Foulsmell may not like it but it's a far more succesfull approach than 'Just Say No!'.

And I'm not a gay activist.
 Quote:
the G-man said:
 Quote:
magicjay38 said:
 Quote:
Killconey said:
Geeze, when did this turn into the bitch about each other's sex lives thread?


It's my fault! Sometimes I can't resist teasing Sammitch! You'd never guess I'm a subbie, would you?


You can breathe underwater?



Posted By: the G-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2006-04-23 10:23 PM
Circumcision, fidelity touted in AIDS fight

    The most promising way to stem Africa's worst AIDS epidemics appears to be encouraging male circumcision and faithfulness to a single partner at a time, not promoting condom use or abstinence, a new look at AIDS studies across the continent suggests.

    Condoms are rarely used by regular sex partners, who are involved in much of the spread of the disease in southern Africa, the region of the continent worst hit by AIDS, studies show. And abstinence campaigns appear to simply delay the infection of young people by a year or two, Daniel Halperin, a leading U.S. AIDS prevention expert, said in a provocative speech last week in Johannesburg.

    But persuading people to have just one sex partner at a time and men to be circumcised could help end what Halperin called a "perfect storm" of the disease in southern Africa. Circumcision appears to cut HIV transmission by 60 percent to 75 percent.
Posted By: magicjay38 Re: AIDS fights back - 2006-04-23 10:33 PM
Helpful tip G-man! I'll be sure to stick with cut guys! Now, if they'd only make a dick flavored condom! If we can send a man to the moon.....
Posted By: the G-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2006-11-18 8:12 PM
HIV/AIDS Linked To Drug Resistant TB

    U.S. scientists say a highly drug-resistant form of tuberculosis has been linked to HIV/AIDS in a study conducted in rural South Africa.

    Yale School of Medicine researchers aiming to integrate HIV and TB care and treatment note TB is the most common cause of death and illness in those with HIV infection in sub-Saharan Africa. Death rates of up to 40 percent annually have been reported in patients with both HIV and TB.

    Senior author Dr. Gerald Friedland, director of the AIDS program at Yale, said the issue is of grave worldwide importance, with multi-drug resistant tuberculosis and extensively drug-resistant tuberculosis threatening to blunt or reverse the success of TB programs and the roll-out of anti-retroviral HIV therapies in resource limited settings.
Posted By: Pariah Re: Researchers claim: AIDS no more! - 2006-11-19 12:01 AM
Quote:

whomod said:
But regardless, i sense a dismissive tone here. As if AIDS, in it's own way is a GOOD thing. Which I find rather disturbing.




What a dumb shit.
Posted By: Beardguy57 Warnings, Worship Mark World AIDS Day - 2006-12-02 12:08 AM

Warnings, Worship Mark World AIDS Day
By DAVID McHUGH, Associated Press Writer
2 hours ago

BERLIN - World Aids Day was marked around the globe by somber religious services, boisterous demonstrations and warnings that far more needs to be done to treat and prevent the disease in order to avert millions of additional deaths.

Ukraine's President Viktor Yushchenko conceded his country was losing ground in the race to curb one of Europe's fastest growing epidemics, saying 100,000 Ukrainians have been officially registered as HIV-positive. Every day, 40 citizens of the former Soviet nation are diagnosed with HIV, and eight die from AIDS, Yushchenko said.

"Such figures are shocking," Yushchenko said in a published address timed to coincide with World AIDS Day. "We can't be indifferent to them."

Yushchenko's statement comes as UNICEF officials warn that of a public health catastrophe in Eastern Europe and Central Asia, where 270,000 people are infected, some 90 percent of them through intravenous drug use.

"Eastern Europe stands at the threshold of an AIDS epidemic of catastrophic proportions, which can only be stopped through a broad-based educational campaign," said Dietrich Garlichs, German head of the United Nations Children's Fund.

In Moscow, dozens of believers lit candles and joined in a prayer service in the small Church of St. Catherine the Great Martyr, part of the U.S.-based Orthodox Church in America.

Women lit thin yellow candles tied with the red ribbons that symbolize the fight against HIV and AIDS, while priests led the chanting of prayers.

The Russian Health Ministry said Russia hopes to provide equal access to anti-retroviral drug therapy for all the HIV-infected.

Chief epidemiologist Gennady Onishchenko said Thursday that the number of officially registered cases of HIV in the country had reached 362,000. But international agencies and some Russian experts say the true number is closer to 1 million.

Activists allege that Russia, where those infected with HIV are often stigmatized, has dragged its feet in battling the disease. Some scientists say the nation faces a devastating epidemic in the next decade if nothing is done, accelerating an already rapid decline in Russia's population.

In London, the day was marked by services in Westminster Cathedral and a concert by the London Gay Mens' Chorus at St. Pancras Church.

In Copenhagen, artist Jens Galschioet put up an eight-foot sculpture of a crucified pregnant teenager outside Copenhagen's Lutheran cathedral. He called it a protest against the idea that "God allows nothing but chastity and unprotected sex."

City authorities gave the artist permission to erect the statue, named "In the Name of God," outside the cathedral.

Anders Gadegaard, the cathedral's dean, appeared to welcome the message. "It's a good supplement to the crucifix we have inside the church," he said.

President Bill Clinton warned in an interview with the BBC that India, which has the largest population of HIV infected people in the world, has become the new epicenter of the global AIDS pandemic. The challenge of controlling the epidemic in India, with 5.7 million infected, is "breathtaking," he said, but it can be achieved.

"This is not rocket science," Clinton told the BBC. "We know what to do."

The Clinton Foundation announced Thursday it had struck a deal with two Indian companies to supply 19 antiretroviral drugs for HIV-infected children at steeply discounted prices. Only one in 10 children who needs treatment is getting it, Clinton said in a statement.

The cheap drugs will be available to 100,000 children in 62 developing countries in Africa, Asia, Latin American and the Caribbean by next year.

But the need for additional treatment and prevention programs, health officials say, is still staggering. The global pandemic has killed 25 million people since the first case was reported in 1981, with 40 million currently infected with HIV, the virus that causes AIDS.

Nations across Asia marked the day with events both serious and lighthearted. In Indonesia, demonstrators marched through the streets of the capital with their faces wrapped in white sheets, some carrying signs that said "No more stigma!" and "Stop HIV/AIDS."

In Thailand, AIDS activists planned Friday evening to create the world's "Longest Condom Chain," intended to raise awareness about the disease. Organizers planned to arrange 25,000 condoms side-by-side on a ribbon placed on the ground, stretching through Bangkok's Lumpini Park.

Thailand is considered a leader in the global fight against AIDS, and has made significant gains in reducing the number of new infections through the aggressive promotion of condom use by men who patronize prostitutes.

In China, schoolgirls decorated classrooms with red ribbons, the international symbol for AIDS awareness. Chinese taxi drivers handed out angel-shaped cards with promoting steps to prevent HIV infections and discrimination against those already infected.

The Chinese Health Ministry said last week that the number of reported HIV/AIDS cases rose by almost 30 percent in the first 10 months of this year, from 144,089 to 183,733. Intravenous drug use was the biggest source of infection, the ministry said.

Health experts estimate that the actual number of cases is four or five times higher than the reported figure.

In Papua New Guinea, the governor general and the health minister took HIV/AIDS blood tests in front of hundreds of people to encourage voluntary testing.

Governor general Paulias Matane and minister Peter Barter attended a rally at the Tabari open-air craft market in Port Moresby and gave blood samples as hundreds of spectators applauded.

Papua New Guinea has the highest incidence of HIV/AIDS among Pacific countries, with around 2 percent of the population estimated to be HIV-positive.

Clinton was due to visit the country Sunday to launch a new voluntary testing and counseling program. He is scheduled to visit Vietnam next week, where his Clinton Foundation runs AIDS treatment programs for children.

In Hanoi on Friday, about 450 people participated in an event that brought together about 20 people infected with HIV and hundreds of those not infected, with the aim of reducing the stigma attached to the virus. The group pitched a dozen large tents, where people ate lunch, talked and sang together.

A "Condom Fashion Show" featured outfits stitched together with condoms.

"We really need something like this so that people will understand more about the epidemic," said Nguyen Minh Phuong, 37, who is infected with HIV. "It allows us to do something useful and help prevent the disease from spreading."

In Indian-controlled Kashmir, meanwhile, public health authorities have found an unexpected ally in their battle against HIV and AIDS in the deeply conservative region.

The Jammu-Kashmir state AIDS prevention and control agency has enlisted hundreds of Islamic clerics to carry the message of safe sexual practices to Muslim believers, officials said Friday.

Top Muslim cleric Mufti Nazir Ahmed usually preaches sermons at a mosque in Kashmir that urge Muslims to avoid promiscuity and homosexuality _ widely believed to be among the major reasons for the spread of AIDS.

"Wherever I deliver a sermon, I talk about AIDS. Methods to prevent AIDS corresponds exactly with the teachings of Islam," Ahmed said Friday. "If one follows the Islamic way, by no means can one contract AIDS."

At least 37 people have died of AIDS in Jammu-Kashmir over the last decade while another 931 people have tested positive for HIV or AIDS, he said.

Associated Press Writer BEN STOCKING contributed to this report.
Posted By: the G-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2007-09-22 5:39 PM
AIDS Vaccine Falters

  • In a disappointing setback, a promising experimental AIDS vaccine failed to work in a large international test, leading the developer to halt the study.

    Merck & Co. said Friday that it is ending enrollment and vaccination of volunteers in the study, which was partly funded by the National Institutes of Health.

    It was a high-profile failure in the daunting quest to develop a vaccine to prevent AIDS. Merck's vaccine was the farthest along, considered the most promising and was closely watched by experts in the field.

    Officials at the company, based in Whitehouse Station, N.J., said 24 of 741 volunteers who got the vaccine in one segment of the experiment later became infected with HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. In a comparison group of volunteers who got dummy shots, 21 of 762 participants also became infected.

    Michael Zwick, an HIV researcher at Scripps Research Institute, said it's too soon to know if other vaccines using the same strategy would also fail.

    The volunteers in the experiment were all free of HIV at the start. But they were at high risk for getting the virus: Most were homosexual men or female sex workers. They were all repeatedly counseled about how to reduce their risk of HIV infections, including use of condoms, according to Merck.

    In a statement, the NIH said a data safety monitoring board, reviewing interim results, found the vaccine did not prevent HIV infection. Nor did it limit severity of the disease "in those who become infected with HIV as a result of their own behaviors that exposed them to the virus" — another goal of the study.
Posted By: the G-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2008-03-21 5:29 PM
AIDS Vaccine Dealt Major Setback: Search for AIDS vaccine reportedly in crisis after tests reveal it may have increased risk of infection.
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: AIDS fights back - 2008-03-21 5:32 PM
 Originally Posted By: Barack Obama's "Pastor" Rev. Wright
The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied.
Posted By: the G-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2008-08-03 6:10 PM
Tijuana AIDS crisis threatens U.S.

U.S. Study Says H.I.V. Infection Is 40% Higher Than Estimated
Posted By: the G-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2008-08-10 6:05 PM
Behavioral Approaches Overlooked in AIDS Fight: Millions of people are becoming infected because governments are overlooking studies showing that behavior modification works, AIDS experts said Tuesday.
Posted By: the G-man Re: AIDS fights back - 2010-04-07 7:47 PM
Health official expects to see more HIV cases among young men: A rash of cases that have no direct links lead to suspicion that "there are a lot more people with HIV out there" who don't know they have the virus.
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