RKMBs
Posted By: whomod Covering Your Tracks The Bush Administration Way - 2007-12-08 12:51 AM


 Quote:
Cafferty: A government watchdog group now says more than 10 million White House emails are missing. Citizens for the Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) described this massive hole in White House email records last April. At that time they thought the number was 5 million - Now they say it is more than 10 million emails. In one of the great understatements of this here Christmas season, the group says that this revised estimate - quote - highlights that this is a very serious and systematic problem at the White House - unquote. Both CREW and another private group called the National Security archive are suing the Bush administration to try to get information about all these missing emails. The White House email problems first came to light during special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald’s investigation into the leak of CIA officer Valerie Plame’s identity.

It’s worth noting what a critical time period these missing emails represent. Why it’s from March of 2003 to October 2005. That would include the start of the Iraq War right up through the aftermath of Katrina. As the director of one of these groups put it: It doesn’t get more historically valuable than that. Given the way the White House handled both the war and Katrina, it’s also quite convenient that suddenly this mountain of stuff is missing. By the way it’s against the law that these emails be destroyed or lost. They are supposed to be saved. The Presidential Records Act of 1978 mandates White House communications be preserved. Another law broken — Another example of nobody doing a damn thing about it.


Not to mention (but you know I will) that over 4 years of Rove’s emails were also illegally deleted from when the White House was illegally using RNC email servers to circumvent the Presidential Records Act. Whatever did become of Sen Leahy’s “Those e-mails are there, they just don’t want to produce them. We’ll subpoena them if necessary“? Is Cafferty right? Is there really nobody doing a damn thing about this anymore except for CREW and GWU’s National Security Archive?
The CIA is not to be outdone...


 Quote:
CIA says interrogation tapes were destroyed

Critics complain that the destroyed videos most likely contained evidence of employing methods of torture.

By Greg Miller, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
December 7, 2007

WASHINGTON -- The CIA said Thursday that it had destroyed videotapes of its secret interrogations of terrorism suspects, taking the action at a time when the agency's harsh methods were coming under intense congressional and legal scrutiny.

CIA Director Michael V. Hayden acknowledged the destruction of the tapes in a message distributed to the CIA workforce. Hayden said the tapes had been destroyed in 2005 "only after it was determined they were no longer of intelligence value and not relevant to any internal, legislative, or judicial inquiries."


But the disclosure is likely to rekindle the controversy surrounding the CIA's use of so-called "enhanced" interrogation methods -- which included subjecting detainees to temperature extremes and sleep deprivation, as well as the widely condemned practice of simulated drowning commonly known as waterboarding.

Hayden's revelation came as key members of congressional oversight committees approved a spending bill that would bar the CIA and other agencies from using any harsh interrogation methods and force intelligence agencies to abide by strict rules adopted by the U.S. Army last year.

The destruction of the tapes was condemned Thursday by human-rights groups and questioned by congressional leaders.

"The destruction of these tapes suggests an utter disregard for the rule of law," said Jameel Jaffer, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's National Security Project. The group has mounted challenges to the government's legal basis for employing harsh interrogation methods. "It was plainly a deliberate attempt to destroy evidence that could have been used to hold CIA agents accountable for the torture of prisoners."

The decision to destroy the tapes and the timing of the disclosure also were questioned by legal teams and other groups that in recent years have sought such records, including the authoritative Sept. 11 commission.

"We believe that we asked for such material and we are sure that we were not provided such material," said Philip D. Zelikow, who served as executive director of the commission, which investigated intelligence failures leading up to the Sept. 11 attacks. The commission concluded its work in 2004, before the tapes were destroyed.

"We're concerned," said Zelikow, who subsequently served as a senior aide to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. "This information got our attention."

In his written statement, Hayden said that the agency videotaped certain interrogations during 2002 "chiefly as an additional, internal check on the [interrogation] program in its early stages." He added that the agency stopped taping the sessions later that same year. A copy of Hayden's statement was obtained by the Los Angeles Times.

A CIA spokesman declined to say how many tapes existed or were destroyed. The tapes were made under former CIA Director George J. Tenet and were destroyed under his successor, Porter J. Goss.

Hayden said that the CIA's office of general counsel had examined the tapes and "determined that they showed lawful methods of questioning." He also said that the tapes had been reviewed by the agency's office of the inspector general in 2003, but did not say whether the inspector general rendered any opinion on the methods the tapes showed.

The general counsel works for the CIA director. The inspector general by law is an independent watchdog, and in the past has been harshly critical of the agency's actions -- including its interrogation and detention practices. In fact, Hayden currently is investigating the CIA inspector general after complaints from agency employees who felt unfairly targeted by the internal reviews.

Hayden also said that the existence of the tapes was disclosed to congressional oversight committees "years ago," and that the agency later notified the panels of the tapes' destruction.

However, the current chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee said he was never shown the videotapes and was given only limited information about their existence. He said the committee was not told until November 2006 that the tapes had been destroyed the year before.

"Our committee must review the full history and chronology of the tapes, how they were used and the reasons for destroying them, and any communication about them that was provided to the courts and Congress," Sen. John D. Rockefeller IV (D-W.Va.) said.

At the time the tapes were destroyed, CIA employees involved in the detention program were widely reported to be concerned about potential liability -- raising the question of whether the tapes were destroyed out of concern for the legal exposure of agency officers.

But Hayden said the tapes were destroyed in part because "were they ever to leak, they would permit identification of your CIA colleagues who had served in the program, exposing them and their families to retaliation from Al Qaeda and its sympathizers."

One of the prisoners who was questioned during that period was Abu Zubaydah, an Al Qaeda operative linked to the Sept. 11 plot. He was the first detainee taken into custody by the CIA in the aftermath of the attacks.

"Under normal questioning, Zubaydah became defiant and evasive," Hayden said in his statement. "That made imperative the use of other means to obtain the information -- means that were lawful, safe and effective."

Zubaydah is believed to have been among a small number of detainees subjected to waterboarding. Hayden said that because the CIA was determined to proceed within established legal guidelines, "on its own, CIA began to videotape interrogations."

At the outset of his message, Hayden said that "the press has learned" of the destroyed tapes. The New York Times reported that it had told the agency on Wednesday that it planned to publish a story about the destruction of the recordings.

The CIA abandoned the use of waterboarding and certain other harsh methods as its treatment of detainees became a source of controversy. In July, President Bush signed an executive order meant to bring the CIA's interrogation methods into compliance with the Geneva Convention, which bars the mistreatment of detainees.

On Wednesday, members of the House and Senate intelligence committees reached agreement on a compromise intelligence funding bill. It includes a provision that would force the CIA to follow the Army interrogation field manual.

That manual was drafted and adopted in the aftermath of the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal, and bans the use of sleep deprivation, stress positions and other controversial methods.

"It is in our national interest to adhere to one, and only one, clearly defined and effective standard of treatment," Rockefeller said in a statement.

But because of that provision, Senate aides said, the bill may be blocked from coming to a vote on the Senate floor. Republicans have criticized the inclusion of the measure.

"Because of this last-minute amendment, this bill would tie the hands of our terror fighters," said Sen. Christopher S. Bond of Missouri, the ranking Republican on the Senate panel.
Spooky stuff.
Pet Rocks


 Quote:
Pet Rocks were a 1970s fad conceived in Los Gatos, California by an advertising executive, Gary Dahl. The first Pet Rocks were ordinary gray pebbles bought at a builder's supply store and marketed as if they were live pets. The fad lasted only about six months, ending with the Christmas season in December 1975; but in its short run, the Pet Rock made Dahl a millionaire.[1]

In 1975, Dahl established "Rock Bottom Productions", a company that sold the rocks for US$3.95 each. The pebbles, imported from Rosarito Beach in Baja California, Mexico, were swaddled in excelsior and nestled in a small cardboard box, similar to a pet carrier. A "Pet Rock Training Manual", with instructions on how to properly raise and care for one's newfound pet (notably lacking instructions for feeding), was included. The instruction manual contained several commands that could be taught to the new pet. While "sit" and "stay" were effortless to accomplish, "roll over" usually required extra help from the trainer. "Come" was found to be impossible to teach reliably.

The advent of electronic toys gave a new twist to the idea: a Ragin' Rocky talking rock from Playmates Toys.
 Quote:
Bush doesn't recollect being told of CIA tapes
Nick Juliano
Published: Friday December 7, 2007

Despite the fact that at least two Democratic lawmakers knew about CIA tapes being destroyed, President Bush is claiming that he has "no recollection" of ever being briefed on the matter.

At Friday's White House briefing, Press Secretary Dana Perino was asked by a reporter, "On these CIA videotapes, did either the president or vice president or Condoleezza Rice, when she was national security adviser, or Steve Hadley see them before they were destroyed?"

"I spoke to the president -- and so I will have to defer on the others, but I spoke to the president this morning about this," Perino said. "He has no recollection of being made aware of the tapes or their destruction before yesterday. He was briefed by General Hayden yesterday morning. And as to the others, I'll have to -- you know, I'll refer you to the Vice President's Office, and I'll see if I can get the others."

Video of Perino's press conference can be seen at this link.

If true, Perino's assertion would mean Bush was unaware of the CIA's actions even while top Congressional officials were briefed on the agency's actions. The top Democrats on the House and Senate Intelligence committees both have said they long knew about the tapes -- which reportedly show CIA interrogators "waterboarding" suspected al Qaeda detainees. One says she cautioned the CIA about the tapes nearly five years before Bush's spokesman claims the president knew anything about them.

Rep. Jane Harman (D-CA) was the ranking intelligence committee in the House, and she now says she sent a classified letter to the CIA in early 2003 urging the agency not to destroy the tapes, as they previously informed members of Congress they would.

"Given the nature of the classification, I was not free to mention this subject publicly until Director Hayden disclosed it yesterday," Harman said. "To my knowledge, the Intelligence Committee was never informed that any videotapes had been destroyed. Surely I was not."

Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV), who now chairs the Senate intel committee, says he learned the tapes were destroyed in November 2006 -- more than a year before Bush knew what was going on in his intelligence community -- but was unable to press the issue because of the information was classified.

“I’m really sick of this — OK, I’m angry about it,” Rockefeller said. “It’s a manipulation of the Congress — the use of two people of the Senate, two people out of the House, because nobody else can be told, including our committee. We can’t even talk to anybody, and they say, ‘Oh, they were briefed.

RAW

This has to change.
 Quote:
Did the CIA Also Destroy Padilla Interrogation Tapes?

Posted Dec 7th 2007 12:54PM by Cenk Uygur

Filed under: Young Turks, Jose Padilla

A long time ago when AOL Newsbloggers first started, I had a debate with the Powerline guys about Jose Padilla. One of the elements of that debate was a missing interrogation tape. I was incredulous -- as was the judge in the case -- that a critical interrogation tape simply disappeared. Paul Mirengoff and John Hinderaker, on the other hand, were more than happy to trust the government, as is their nature (as long as the government is a Republican one).

Well, it turns out that the CIA has indeed destroyed several interrogation tapes after all. This was not an honest mistake where the tapes were misplaced. They took evidence and threw it in the garbage. Now, they might be facing obstruction of justice charges. Whoops.

It's almost as if you shouldn't blindly trust what your government tells you. It's almost as if our whole constitution is built on the premise that you shouldn't blindly trust your government.

Now, this case is not the same as the Padilla case. In this instance, CIA Director Michael Hayden is referring to the tapes of two other interrogations. But while Congress is investigating these tapes, they shouldn't forget to ask about the "missing" Padilla interrogation tape, either.

What happened to the Padilla tape? Was it also destroyed? Are the two cases connected? If the Padilla interrogation tapes were destroyed, what implication does that have on his trial?

But, first and foremost, the CIA should tell us what really happened to the tape of Jose Padilla's interrogation.


Well? I'm waiting to get the bullshit rationalizations and excuses from the usual suspects. A good dose of those who dare to question Bush and demand accountability are doing Osama Bin laden's dirty work etc. etc.

Just like the telecom immunity case, why on Earth does someone who did no wrong and has nothing to hide go about trying to give immunity and in this case, destroy evidence that they were LEGALLY REQUIRED to save?

It's way past time to start trying these CRIMINALS. And if necessary , turning in people to the Hauge.
What I don't understand is...if we're going to destroy the tapes to cover up wrongdoing, why not torture the guy, get all the information we can, execute him in a summary fashion and then dispose of the body where it can't be found?

Then there's NO evidence of "CIA wrongdoing".
Because I suppose one would hope that the CIA is not completely inhuman and morphed into the Stalinist KGB.
So they're evil torturer war criminals, but just not murderers, eh?
That we KNOW of... They have to be getting the body parts that keep Cheney running SOMEwhere...
But, again, I have to ask, why bring any of these guys to trial if that's the case? Why not just dispose of the body?
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
The top Democrats on the House and Senate Intelligence committees both have said they long knew about the tapes -- which reportedly show CIA interrogators "waterboarding" suspected al Qaeda detainees.


In other words, the "torture" on the tapes was "waterboarding." However, for all the hue and cry this week about a coverup, according to the Washington Post, top Democratic lawmakers knew about it and did not object to it:
  • In September 2002, four members of Congress met in secret for a first look at a unique CIA program designed to wring vital information from reticent terrorism suspects in U.S. custody. For more than an hour, the bipartisan group, which included current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was given a virtual tour of the CIA's overseas detention sites and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to try to make their prisoners talk.

    Among the techniques described, said two officials present, was waterboarding, a practice that years later would be condemned as torture by Democrats and some Republicans on Capitol Hill. But on that day, no objections were raised. Instead, at least two lawmakers in the room asked the CIA to push harder, two U.S. officials said.

    "The briefer was specifically asked if the methods were tough enough," said a U.S. official who witnessed the exchange.

Not much of a "cover up" if the opposition party was in on it, is there?
 Originally Posted By: the G-man
....
Not much of a "cover up" if the opposition party was in on it, is there?


The problem with that is it was only a couple of people from the opposition party who may have been briefed but couldn't say anything to anyone including there fellow congressmen because it was all classified. Being briefed & then being given no means to act on it isn't being "in on it" IMHO.
You will note that the "couple of the people from the opposition party" were actually the leaders of said party, including Nancy Pelosi. Furthermore, just because something is "classified" does not mean that a member of congress cannot act on what they see. If, for example, Ms. Pelosi had seen activity that she believed to be illegal she could have pointed that out and/or called for an investigation.

Neither of which occurred. Instead, the Post article indicates, the congressional leaders appeared to approve of the practices.

Again, not much of a "cover up" in such a circumstance.
I don't care what party the people covering up illegality are from. Investigate and prosecute the lot of them I say.

It's not as if the Democratic leadership is actually displaying any opposition or leadership anyways as the whole Chris Dodds need for a fillibuster shows.
MSNBC:

 Quote:
White House visitor logs are public documents, a federal judge ruled Monday, rejecting a legal strategy that the Bush administration had hoped would get around public records laws and let them keep their guests a secret.

The ruling is a blow to the Bush administration, which has fought the release of records showing visits by prominent religious conservatives.


We know they will never give them up because that’s how BushCo operates, but I’d love to see them explain why Jeff Gannon visited Karl Rove’s office like 137 times. <snark>

Posted By: the G-man Re: Covering Your Tracks The whomod Way - 2007-12-18 4:43 AM
Does this mean you'll be bringing back your Jeff Gannon alt?
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Covering Your Tracks The whomod Way - 2007-12-19 3:49 AM

Like I said before, I don't think waterboarding is torture. Our Marines go through more rigorous treatment during basic training. There are certain means of intimidation allowed by the Geneva Convention that don't rise to the level of "torture" (sleep deprivation, exposure to cold, etc.)

And as Richard Lowry said on the PBS News Hour a few weeks ago, a number of journalists have volunteered to have waterboarding done to them. If it were truly "torture", journalists would not be volunteering for the treatment. As Lowry said, journalists wouldn't be saying "Gee, can you rip out one of my fingernails, I'd really like to know how that feels..."
(And I also saw a journalist interviewed who volunteered to be waterboarded several times, interviewed just a week ago on CNN with Anderson Cooper, with video shown of the procedure.)

It's a typical liberal stance, condemning your own nation for abstractions of principle on piddly matters, while the enemy saws off people's heads, and these same liberals call them "freedom fighters".
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy

Like I said before, I don't think waterboarding is torture. Our Marines go through more rigorous treatment during basic training. There are certain means of intimidation allowed by the Geneva Convention that don't rise to the level of "torture" (sleep deprivation, exposure to cold, etc.)

And as Richard Lowry said on the PBS News Hour a few weeks ago, a number of journalists have volunteered to have waterboarding done to them. If it were truly "torture", journalists would not be volunteering for the treatment. As Lowry said, journalists wouldn't be saying "Gee, can you rip out one of my fingernails, I'd really like to know how that feels..."
(And I also saw a journalist interviewed who volunteered to be waterboarded several times, interviewed just a week ago on CNN with Anderson Cooper, with video shown of the procedure.)

It's a typical liberal stance, condemning your own nation for abstractions of principle on piddly matters, while the enemy saws off people's heads, and these same liberals call them "freedom fighters".


McCain doesn't think it's a piddly matter.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Covering Your Tracks the Bush way - 2007-12-19 4:35 AM
Yeah, and McCain endorsed George Bush in 2004. Are you going to base your opinion of something solely on what McCain believes?
 Originally Posted By: the G-man
Yeah, and McCain endorsed George Bush in 2004. Are you going to base your opinion of something solely on what McCain believes?


No but that wasn't what I was saying. WB was doing the usual liberal rant & I was just tossing a name out there that isn't liberal plus he's been tortured.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Covering Your Tracks the Bush way - 2007-12-19 6:00 AM
Actually, WB would be doing the usual anti-liberal rant. You do the usual liberal rant. ;\)
 Originally Posted By: the G-man
I did the usual anti-MEM rant.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Covering Your Tracks the Bush way - 2007-12-19 8:03 AM
No that was the usual anti-MEM one liner. The anti-MEM rant would be longer.
G-man, i think you need to admit that you're not creative due to your uncreative conservative brain. try hiring a liberal to write jokes for you.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Covering Your Tracks the Bush way - 2007-12-19 4:16 PM
Silly Adler. Every one knows that the writers are on strike.

What are you? Some sort of pro-management, strike breaking, goon?
 Originally Posted By: the G-man
Silly Adler. Every one knows that the writers are on strike.

What are you? Some sort of pro-management, strike breaking, goon?

9/11 changed everything.
Posted By: Chant Re: Covering Your Tracks the Bush way - 2007-12-19 5:10 PM
 Originally Posted By: the G-man
Silly Adler. Every one knows that the writers are on strike.

What are you? Some sort of pro-management, strike breaking, goon?




Adler's a scab, A SCAB I TELL YOU!!!

I wonder who he's scabbing with?
Posted By: The Pun-isher Re: Covering Your Tracks the Bush way - 2007-12-19 5:29 PM
 Originally Posted By: Chant
 Originally Posted By: the G-man
Silly Adler. Every one knows that the writers are on strike.

What are you? Some sort of pro-management, strike breaking, goon?




Adler's a scab, A SCAB I TELL YOU!!!

I wonder who he's scabbing with?


We should start calling him "Scabbers," like the rat from Harry Potter.
Posted By: whomod Re: Covering Your Tracks The whomod Way - 2007-12-20 2:15 AM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy

Like I said before, I don't think waterboarding is torture.


As with global warming, just because the conservative party and their supporters decides to live in stubborn denial, it doesn't make their half assed beliefs so.

They can also assert that the Earth is flat and only 6000 years old and that the Earth is the centre of the universe for all I care. Do we really need to constantly treat their idiotic, uninformed and deceptive assertions like if they have any merit or are any sort of intelligent counterpoint to anything?




Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Covering Your Tracks The whomod Way - 2007-12-20 10:12 AM
 Originally Posted By: whomod
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy

Like I said before, I don't think waterboarding is torture.


As with global warming, just because the conservative party and their supporters decides to live in stubborn denial, it doesn't make their half assed beliefs so.

They can also assert that the Earth is flat and only 6000 years old and that the Earth is the centre of the universe for all I care. Do we really need to constantly treat their idiotic, uninformed and deceptive assertions like if they have any merit or are any sort of intelligent counterpoint to anything?






Despite your liberal slander tactics, there is still debate over whether waterboarding qualifies as "torture".

In the full context of what I said:
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy

Like I said before, I don't think waterboarding is torture. Our Marines go through more rigorous treatment during basic training. There are certain means of intimidation allowed by the Geneva Convention that don't rise to the level of "torture" (sleep deprivation, exposure to cold, etc.)

And as Richard Lowry said on the PBS News Hour a few weeks ago, a number of journalists have volunteered to have waterboarding done to them. If it were truly "torture", journalists would not be volunteering for the treatment. As Lowry said, journalists wouldn't be saying "Gee, can you rip out one of my fingernails, I'd really like to know how that feels..."
(And I also saw a journalist interviewed who volunteered to be waterboarded several times, interviewed just a week ago on CNN with Anderson Cooper, with video shown of the procedure.)

It's a typical liberal stance, condemning your own nation for abstractions of principle on piddly matters, while the enemy saws off people's heads, and these same liberals call them "freedom fighters".


You, whomod, are the only one discussing whether the earth is flat.
You're the only one discussing the earth being 6000 years old.
These are non-sequitor arguments of yours, that have nothing to do with waterboarding, or actual torture.

And whether you like it or not, there is debate about whether or not waterboarding is torture. As I said, a number of reporters have volunteered for this procedure. Something that is actual torture, along the lines of a Nazi concentration camp, Soviet Gulags, or the Hanoi Hilton, is not a precedure any reporter would be volunteering for.

And waterboarding pales beside what any enemy nation in the last 60 years has subjected captured American P.O.W.'s to.
Waterboarding is intimidation, not torture.

But of course, you're consistently on the side of our enemy anyway, so why would you care about our ability to get vital information from enemy prisoners to protect the United States?

Oh my, you're upset. \:\(

Here. Let me lighten your mood a bit.





Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to the weekly Al Queda Islamodelicious pot luck.

Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Covering Your Tracks The whomod Way - 2007-12-21 8:24 AM
 Originally Posted By: whomod
Oh my, you're upset.

Here. Let me lighten your mood a bit.


Upset? No, simply responding factually to your points.



Have fun at the Al Qaida picnic.

These partisan comedians are so bitter in their partisanship that they're about as funny as a dead mouse.

I'll take Jay Leno, Johnny Carson, David Letterman, Steve Martin, Steven Wright, and many others over these guys any day of the week. Leno and Carson in particular know how to make presidential jokes, of both parties, without being partisan or bitter about it.

And Dennis Miller manages to be partisan without coming across as bitter.

These guys you like to post YouTube links to all the time are apoplectic with liberal rage, to the point that they're not even funny.
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy


These partisan comedians are so bitter in their partisanship that they're about as funny as a dead mouse.

..without being partisan or bitter about it.

And Dennis Miller manages to be partisan without coming across as bitter.

These guys you like to post YouTube links to all the time are apoplectic with liberal rage, to the point that they're not even funny.




You're no fun at all.

It's amazing that all you see is "bitter[ness]" and "rag[ing]" in those clips. Not even the "Shocks the Conscience" picture amused you?

I'd make some comment about you projecting your rage and bitterness on the vast majority of people. But man, at this point in the game, it's completely unneccesary.
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy

These partisan comedians are so bitter in their partisanship that they're about as funny as a dead mouse.

they're doing satire. and if you paid attention, they had a lot of jokes about Clinton when he was in office and they've made a lot of jokes about the wimpiness of senate democrats.

 Quote:
I'll take Jay Leno, Johnny Carson, David Letterman, Steve Martin, Steven Wright, and many others over these guys any day of the week. Leno and Carson in particular know how to make presidential jokes, of both parties, without being partisan or bitter about it.




the Daily Show is satire, not just a half hour version of weekend update. And Dennis Miller is partisan, and not very funny.

 Quote:
These guys you like to post YouTube links to all the time are apoplectic with liberal rage, to the point that they're not even funny.

you just can't stand the fact that the majority of the world, and pretty much all of entertainment disagree with you. the funny thing is that you can't post any counter youtube videos because Bush is such an idiot that just watching him speak is a joke against him.
I think your problem with the Daily Show is that they have a little more nerve than "real" news broadcasts. Because they are wrapped in the banner of satire they can act less than dignified and do things like show two speeches from Bush where he says one thing on one day and then another thing on another day. Like the child in the Emperor's New Clothing the Daily Show is often able to address the hard truth of the situation, something you can't stand because you prefer the catch phrases and buzzwords of Fox News' War on Terror.
Posted By: Wank and Cry Re: Covering Your Tracks The whomod Way - 2007-12-21 7:15 PM
 Originally Posted By: Ray said
you just can't stand the fact that the majority of the world, and pretty much all of entertainment disagree with you. the funny thing is that you can't post any counter youtube videos because Bush is such an idiot that just watching him speak is a joke against him.


It's funny, cause awhile ago I tried to google a pro-Bush image (just for irony) and there's wasn't jack shit. Couldn't even find a pro Bush website.
 Originally Posted By: Halo82
 Originally Posted By: Ray said
you just can't stand the fact that the majority of the world, and pretty much all of entertainment disagree with you. the funny thing is that you can't post any counter youtube videos because Bush is such an idiot that just watching him speak is a joke against him.


It's funny, cause awhile ago I tried to google a pro-Bush image (just for irony) and there's wasn't jack shit. Couldn't even find a pro Bush website.

obviously the internet and all the people that use it have a liberal bias.
Posted By: Wank and Cry Re: Covering Your Tracks The whomod Way - 2007-12-21 7:51 PM
 Originally Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man
 Originally Posted By: Halo82
 Originally Posted By: Ray said
you just can't stand the fact that the majority of the world, and pretty much all of entertainment disagree with you. the funny thing is that you can't post any counter youtube videos because Bush is such an idiot that just watching him speak is a joke against him.


It's funny, cause awhile ago I tried to google a pro-Bush image (just for irony) and there's wasn't jack shit. Couldn't even find a pro Bush website.

obviously the internet and all the people that use it have a liberal bias.


I did however stumble upon this conservative circle jerk-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6Om3oksAPA

In true dogmatic fashion all replies are screened.

Posted By: Wank and Cry Re: Covering Your Tracks The whomod Way - 2007-12-21 7:52 PM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: whomod
Oh my, you're upset.

Here. Let me lighten your mood a bit.


Upset? No, simply responding factually to your points.



Have fun at the Al Qaida picnic.

These partisan comedians are so bitter in their partisanship that they're about as funny as a dead mouse.

I'll take Jay Leno, Johnny Carson, David Letterman, Steve Martin, Steven Wright, and many others over these guys any day of the week. Leno and Carson in particular know how to make presidential jokes, of both parties, without being partisan or bitter about it.

And Dennis Miller manages to be partisan without coming across as bitter.

These guys you like to post YouTube links to all the time are apoplectic with liberal rage, to the point that they're not even funny.




 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy


Despite your liberal slander tactics, there is still debate over whether waterboarding qualifies as "torture".



Yes. "Debate" being right wing Bush apologists who act confused and oblivious about it. Just like there are Exxon 'scientists' who make "debate" about the veracity of global warming. Just like if I feel like declaring the sky is green and the grass is blue. There would then be "debate".

But since you're always on some kick to try to make anyone who doesn't kowtow to your dreams of a pliant unquestioning right wing authoritarian utopia (a white one BTW) out to be some sort of anti-American, I suggest revisiting history.

After the Spanish-American War, hearings before Henry Cabot Lodge's Senate Committee on The Philippines, in 1902, caused national outrage when brutality by some US officers and soldiers was revealed.

Witnesses testified on widespread use of the "water cure" developed by priests during the Inquisition. "His suffering must be that of a man who is drowning but who cannot drown".

President Theodore Roosevelt was outraged too: "Great as the provocation has been in dealing with the foes who habitually resort to treachery, murder and torture against our men, nothing can justify...the use of torture or inhuman conduct..on the part of the American Army".

Today, you Wonder Boy would relegate Theodore Roosevelt and the outraged American citizenry of that era to that of collaborators, traitors, or apologists. That is how whacked out and truly UnAmerican you truly are. If only they could also hold war crimes trials for the people (like you) who eagerly allow war crimes thru their tacit and enthusiastic support of illegality and barbarism and who try to disguise their sadism under the patriotism of an American flag.

And Roosevelt made clear that just because an enemy uses torture, we don't excuse ourselves to become just as savage in kind. To address that little story posted from yesterday.

Or do you think Teddy Roosevelt "hated the troops" and gave "aid and comfort to the enemy"?

Amazing what a great temporary silencing technique stupid shopworn slogans are, eh?

As President Theodore Roosevelt said in his 1906 State of the Union address, "No man can take part in the torture of a human being without having his own moral nature permanently lowered."

I'll apply that to the moral character of people who embrace and applaud it as well.
Posted By: whomod Re: Roosevelt was right: Waterboarding wrong - 2007-12-22 2:06 PM
 Quote:
Roosevelt was right: Waterboarding wrong

By: Daniel A. Rezneck
Oct 31, 2007 07:13 PM EST

There is nothing new under the sun.

Just consider the practice known as “waterboarding,” which has caused Senate Democrats to suggest they will block confirmation of Attorney General-designate Michael Mukasey because, while he decries the practice, he said he could not comment on its legality. The Bush administration has said it considers the practice to be humane and to fall within the Geneva Convention.



But waterboarding was also a prime subject of controversy in Congress and in the U.S. more than 100 years ago.

The occasion was the Philippine insurrection, which began soon after the American victory in the Spanish-American War of 1898. It soon became clear that the American liberation of the Philippines from Spanish rule did not mean freedom for the Filipinos but annexation by the United States.

The Filipinos fought back savagely against the American occupation, committing many atrocities.

American soldiers responded with what was called the “water cure” or “Chinese water torture.” As described in a 1902 congressional hearing: “A man is thrown down on his back and three or four men sit on his arms and legs and hold him down, and either a gun barrel or a rifle barrel or a carbine barrel or a stick as big as a belaying pin ... is simply thrust into his jaws, ... and then water is poured onto his face, down his throat and nose, ... until the man gives some sign of giving in or becomes unconscious. ... His suffering must be that of a man who is drowning but who cannot drown.”

Edmund Morris, in the second volume of his brilliant biography of Theodore Roosevelt, recounts how a master politician took over the situation. Roosevelt met with his Cabinet and demanded a full briefing on the Philippine situation. Elihu Root, the secretary of war, reported that an officer accused of the water torture had been ordered to stand trial.

Dissatisfied, Roosevelt sent a cable to the commander of the U.S. Army in the Philippines, stating:
“The president desires to know in the fullest and most circumstantial manner all the facts, ... for the very reason that the president intends to back up the Army in the heartiest fashion in every lawful and legitimate method of doing its work; he also intends to see that the most vigorous care is exercised to detect and prevent any cruelty or brutality and that men who are guilty thereof are punished. Great as the provocation has been in dealing with foes who habitually resort to treachery, murder and torture against our men, nothing can justify or will be held to justify the use of torture or inhuman conduct of any kind on the part of the American Army.”

Roosevelt also ordered the court-martial of the American general on the island of Samar, where some of the worst abuses had occurred. He did so “under conditions which will give me the right of review.” The court-martial cleared the general of the charges, found only that he had behaved with excessive zeal and “admonished” him against repetition.

Roosevelt responded by disregarding the verdict of the court-martial and ordering the general’s dismissal from the Army. Morris wrote that Roosevelt’s decision “won universal praise” from Democrats, who congratulated him for acknowledging cruelty in the Philippine campaign, and from Republicans, who said that he had “upheld the national honor.”

The Anti-Imperialist League, the principal foe of the annexationist policies that followed the Spanish-­American War, conceded that they had been out-­maneuvered by Roosevelt. Charles Francis Adams, a leading anti-imperialist, wrote to Carl Schurz that their cause was lost because of Theodore Roosevelt: “I think he has been very adroit. He has conciliated almost everyone.”

So although it is true that there is nothing new under the sun, it is also true that history does not always repeat itself and presidents rarely learn from their predecessors.


but the bombing of the Maine changed everything.
Posted By: whomod Re: Roosevelt was right: Waterboarding wrong - 2007-12-23 1:38 AM
I dunoo...
I get the impression that Wonder Boy would have fit right in at the Inquisition, at the Salem Witch trials, and at the McCarthy hearings.

All that fear and suspicion never amounts to anything good. In fact, it only ever leads to atrocity or persecution.
 Originally Posted By: whomod
All that fear and suspicion never amounts to anything good. In fact, it only ever leads to atrocity or persecution.


And a short christmas list.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Covering Your Tracks The whomod Way - 2007-12-24 11:17 AM
 Originally Posted By: Halo82
 Originally Posted By: Ray said
you just can't stand the fact that the majority of the world, and pretty much all of entertainment disagree with you. the funny thing is that you can't post any counter youtube videos because Bush is such an idiot that just watching him speak is a joke against him.


It's funny, cause awhile ago I tried to google a pro-Bush image (just for irony) and there's wasn't jack shit. Couldn't even find a pro Bush website.



Oh really...







First of all, I'd say my comments regarding Bush are as often critical of him (not enough troops in Iraq before the surge, the Harriet Miers nomination, complete lack of immigration enforcement, exporting of jobs, importing of low-wage immigrants, etc.), as they are supportive of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and other steps to protect us from Islamic terrorism. A demonstrated threat, thst democrats like to pretend doesn't even exist.

You and the other liberal assholes here just like to paint me as a goose-stepping Bushite, to manufacture a whipping boy who doesn't truly exist.

I don't post pro-Bush images, because I'm not as pro-Bush as you like to falsely paint me as. Bush is simply the lesser of two evils for me, in a bad 2004 choice between Bush and Kerry. I support him on some issues, and oppose him on many others. As I've said many times, my ideals are Republican, but on issues of immigration, free trade, offshoring of jobs, and corporate welfare, etc., I see the Republicans as abandoning their ideals, and abandoning the middle class (i.e., bipartisan treason). So I'm a swing voter, with loyalty to a populist candidate who emerges from either party, or a third party, who would fix the problems that both parties are evading.

There are certainly plenty of Republican, and even pro-Bush, images and video clips I could post here on a regular basis if I truly felt a loyalty to W. Bush, and if I were interested in the same level of vulgarity, spitefulness, personal insults, and outright lies that you jerks devote your lives to.
While you're accusing myself and others of partisanship, "fear", and "bigotry" that you yourselves unapologetically indulge in with pretty much every post. Oh, the irony...
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy


First of all, I'd say my comments regarding Bush are as often critical of him (not enough troops in Iraq before the surge, the Harriet Miers nomination, complete lack of immigration enforcement, exporting of jobs, importing of low-wage immigrants, etc.), as they are supportive of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and other steps to protect us from Islamic terrorism. A demonstrated threat, thst democrats like to pretend doesn't even exist.

that'sabout the limit of your criticism of bush, a laundry list of things you don't like. a far cry from the "liberals want to rape our children" rhetoric you spew about the other side.
and bush has actually increased the threat of terrorism. while the simple view is that they're evil and that's that, but the real view of experts is that this is blowback. terrorism came about due to the hatred we created with our manipulations and heavyhandedness in the region. the invasion of iraq has increased the number of terrorists, caused much more resentment, and destabilized the region even further.

[qoute] You and the other liberal assholes here just like to paint me as a goose-stepping Bushite, to manufacture a whipping boy who doesn't truly exist. [/quote]
well you are. you only list a few things that you're critical of and then you support Bush on all the big points and call any opposition to your view "evil liberals."

[qoute] I don't post pro-Bush images, because I'm not as pro-Bush as you like to falsely paint me as. Bush is simply the lesser of two evils for me, in a bad 2004 choice between Bush and Kerry. I support him on some issues, and oppose him on many others. [/quote]


 Quote:
There are certainly plenty of Republican, and even pro-Bush, images and video clips I could post here on a regular basis, if I were interested in the same level of vulgarity, spitefulness and personal insults, and outright lies that you jerks devote your lives to.
While you're accusing myself and others of partisanship, "fear", and "bigotry" that you yourselves unapologetically indulge in with pretty much every post. Oh, the irony...

i stopped caring halfway through the paragraph.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Covering Your Tracks The whomod Way - 2007-12-24 12:42 PM
 Originally Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy


First of all, I'd say my comments regarding Bush are as often critical of him (not enough troops in Iraq before the surge, the Harriet Miers nomination, complete lack of immigration enforcement, exporting of jobs, importing of low-wage immigrants, etc.), as they are supportive of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and other steps to protect us from Islamic terrorism. A demonstrated threat, thst democrats like to pretend doesn't even exist.

that'sabout the limit of your criticism of bush, a laundry list of things you don't like. a far cry from the "liberals want to rape our children" rhetoric you spew about the other side.


I voice a lot of criticism of Bush, what the hell do you want?
I just don't indulge in the level of viciousness and outright hatred that you and other more insult-prone liberals here do.

Yeah, I agree much more with the ideals of the Republican party.

And yeah, I do see the liberal-Democrats, that largely control the Democrat party, to be deeply rooted in Marxist ideology that many in the party are even themselves oblivious to, and that feminism, racial politics focused on decades-old racism and forever flagellating Europeans for slavery that was created by blacks, and undermining our culture and history with the hostility that mindset breeds, the abandonment of the "melting pot" approach to immigration, instead embracing a wrongheaded "multiculturalism" notion that is balkanizing America, smothering Christianity from our history and our culture, all these are concepts rooted in the Marxist teachings of Gramsci and the Frankfurt School, the Marxists who dreamed of a bloodless communist revolution that would overturn the United States and Western Europe, by slanderously tearing down trust in nationalism, traditional family ties, and religious faith.

But you also ignore that I've praised many other Democrats, such as Joseph Biden, Christopher Dodd, Joseph Lieberman, Byron Dorgan, Sam Nunn, Lloyd Bentsen, Jimmy Carter, Richard Rubin, and on a few points even Bill Clinton (fast action that averted an even deeper crisis, with financial bailouts in Mxico and Indonesia, and also fast military intervention in Haiti and Bosnia, that averted a larger crisis).

Again, you ignore that I often have criticized Bush.
All along, I said we should have more troops in Iraq, and we finally did when Rumsfeld was removed and the Iraq "surge" began.
And even now that it's going well, you guys are in complete denial that there's been a turnaround, as you continue to slander the president and our troops in Iraq.

Any political goal I voice criticism or priority to achieving, such as halting illegal immigration, defending our borders, etc., you blanket-label as "racist" or "bigoted".
And when I oppose NAFTA, the trade deficit, and offshoring jobs, you manufacture some other way to likewise slander or trivialize the issues I give proiority to, ignoring the parts where I'm obviously critical of Bush as well as Democrats.

 Originally Posted By: Ray

and bush has actually increased the threat of terrorism. while the simple view is that they're evil and that's that, but the real view of experts is that this is blowback. terrorism came about due to the hatred we created with our manipulations and heavyhandedness in the region. the invasion of iraq has increased the number of terrorists, caused much more resentment, and destabilized the region even further.


I've heard that slander raised repeatedly by the pacifist Bush-hating left, but I've yet to see any hard evidence to support that notion. It's pure anti-Bush propaganda.

The simple fact is, we haven't been attacked again since 9-11, and Al Qaida is on the retreat in Iraq.

There's a professor and former military officer named General Odom, who said almost 2 years ago in a thing called "Odom's 9 points" that every reason for staying in Iraq is actually a reason to leave. That, for example, if we leave Iraq, the U.S. departure would immediately dry up the rallying banner of Western invaders in the middle east.
But the fact is, muslims were attacking a lot of people, in Sudan, in China, in India, in former-soviet Georgia, in Chechnya, in the Phillipines, in Europe, who weren't attacking them!

So, to me, it's a bullshit argument, to say that if we weren't there, they wouldn't be attacking us. They'd be attacking closer people and states, and once they expanded there, then they'd move on to us.
As Hitler would have, as the Japanese would have.

Stuffing our heads in the sand and abandoning our allies abroad is not the way to fight islamic expansionism.

I think Bush had the right idea, with intervening in Iraq, but that he should have expanded our military beforehand, called for more sacrifice from the civilian population, and gone in with the military troop levels the Pentagon generals advocated. And it's fair to criticize Bush for that. But if Bush has turned it around, as he has since the surge began, while not overlooking his earlier errors, the current success in Iraq should be acknowledged.

 Originally Posted By: Ray

 Originally Posted By: WB
You and the other liberal assholes here just like to paint me as a goose-stepping Bushite, to manufacture a whipping boy who doesn't truly exist.

well you are. you only list a few things that you're critical of and then you support Bush on all the big points and call any opposition to your view "evil liberals."


You're a dumbass who apparently can't read. I've been very clear, post after post, year after year, where I do and don't support Bush. I pretty much just support Bush on the war against terror, and moves that have pushed to keep the economy out of recession, despite a home mortgage crisis, a credit crisis, and other financial problems that preceded Bush but were blamed on him by liberals. Likewise Iran and North Korea.

I've been critical of Bush for lack of enforcement against illegal immigration, a partisan and half-baked Harriet Miers Supreme Court nomination, and basically giving lip service to his conservative Christian base, while in truth doing virtually nothing in support of Christian interests nationally.

You choose to ignore, for partisan reasons, and more pointedly, out of pure hatred of myself and other conservatives, to ignore what I've truly said, in order to make me conform to your stereotype, of whatever it is you love to hate.

 Originally Posted By: Ray

 Originally Posted By: WB
I don't post pro-Bush images, because I'm not as pro-Bush as you like to falsely paint me as. Bush is simply the lesser of two evils for me, in a bad 2004 choice between Bush and Kerry. I support him on some issues, and oppose him on many others.



 Originally Posted By: WB
There are certainly plenty of Republican, and even pro-Bush, images and video clips I could post here on a regular basis, if I were interested in the same level of vulgarity, spitefulness and personal insults, and outright lies that you jerks devote your lives to.
While you're accusing myself and others of partisanship, "fear", and "bigotry" that you yourselves unapologetically indulge in with pretty much every post. Oh, the irony...

i stopped caring halfway through the paragraph.


Well goody for you.

Posted By: whomod Re: Covering Your Tracks The whomod Way - 2007-12-24 12:55 PM
Yes yes but tell me, was Teddy Roosevelt weak on terror and did he hate the troops?
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy

[quote=Ray]
and bush has actually increased the threat of terrorism. while the simple view is that they're evil and that's that, but the real view of experts is that this is blowback. terrorism came about due to the hatred we created with our manipulations and heavyhandedness in the region. the invasion of iraq has increased the number of terrorists, caused much more resentment, and destabilized the region even further.


 Originally Posted By: wondy
I've heard that slander raised repeatedly by the pacifist Bush-hating left, but I've yet to see any hard evidence to support that notion. It's pure anti-Bush propaganda.

aside from the fact that people who actually study these things say the same thing. what hard evidence do you need? i guess 9/11 wasn't hard evidence, huh? Your side likes the simple "they hate us for our freedom" because you don't like the concept of blowback since that involves America doing something wrong. There are many more countries that are "freer" and more liberal than we are, but we're the one that's been in there fucking about in the region for 50 years.

 Quote:
The simple fact is, we haven't been attacked again since 9-11, and Al Qaida is on the retreat in Iraq.

um, aren't we fighting the terrorists in Iraq? Therefore every single death and act of violence done there is a terrorist attack. Bush made it easier to attack us by putting the soldiers there and then fucking over the Iraqi people to the point that more people hate us and have a reason to want to fight us.
Saying Bush is successful in preventing terrorism because we haven't been attacked is such a logical fallacy. That's like me saying that my shirt prevents cancer because I don't have cancer.
It's not like we were having attacks all the time and then they stopped. There have been very few attacks on American soil in the past 230 years. And the one attack on Bush's watch showed his poor leadership. He ignored warnings, sat in inaction for 7 minutes after being told about them, and then attacked the wrong country.

 Quote:

As Hitler would have, as the Japanese would have.

Hitler had control of a large military that was capable of conquering countries and spreading across the world. Saddam could barely feed his people. He didn't have the resources to be a threat. Bin Laden didn't have a country or a military, he has a small group that is funded by his money. The key to victory would be to find his funds and freeze them.

 Quote:
Stuffing our heads in the sand and abandoning our allies abroad is not the way to fight islamic expansionism.

ok, well no one is suggesting that. these terrorists aren't the nazi troops storming across the globe. they're a religious fundamental group that is fighting for their homeland and then trying to stop...LIBERALS...in their own countries from creating reform. these conservative villains can't be fought by some big war by bombing some city. unfortunately our conservative villains want a big show to scare people into following their own religious views.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Covering Your Tracks The whomod Way - 2007-12-24 8:24 PM
 Originally Posted By: whomod
Yes yes but tell me, was Teddy Roosevelt weak on terror and did he hate the troops?


That's such an obviously deceitful and distorted remark.

I obviously support a populist approach, to overcome the corruption of our two-party system. And Teddy Roosevelt was the ultimate populist candidate, who rose to fame fighting in the Spanish-American war, who as president passed anti-trust bills that overcame the corporate monopolies of his time, who passed labor protection laws and child-labor laws in support of working Americans.

And when he felt his heir President Taft had sold out Republican principles, he ran as a third-party candidate against Taft in 1912, in which Roosevelt received more votes than Taft, and allowed Woodrow Wilson to replace Taft and provide an alternative.


And it's funny that you only support out great presidents when it serves your purpose, while you generally damn our presidents and national history.

For their vision and insight of how to strengthen this country and make it great, is what you condemn as "racist" when I repeat it and press for its preservation:

 Originally Posted By: Teddy Roosevelt
The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tanle of squabbling nationalities



 Originally Posted By: Woodrow Wilson
You cannot become thorough Americans if you think of yourselves in groups. America does not consist of groups. A man who thinks of himself as belonging to a national group in America has not yet become an American.
Posted By: Wank and Cry Re: Covering Your Tracks The whomod Way - 2007-12-24 8:54 PM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: Halo82
 Originally Posted By: Ray said
you just can't stand the fact that the majority of the world, and pretty much all of entertainment disagree with you. the funny thing is that you can't post any counter youtube videos because Bush is such an idiot that just watching him speak is a joke against him.


It's funny, cause awhile ago I tried to google a pro-Bush image (just for irony) and there's wasn't jack shit. Couldn't even find a pro Bush website.



Oh really...







First of all, I'd say my comments regarding Bush are as often critical of him (not enough troops in Iraq before the surge, the Harriet Miers nomination, complete lack of immigration enforcement, exporting of jobs, importing of low-wage immigrants, etc.), as they are supportive of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and other steps to protect us from Islamic terrorism. A demonstrated threat, thst democrats like to pretend doesn't even exist.

You and the other liberal assholes here just like to paint me as a goose-stepping Bushite, to manufacture a whipping boy who doesn't truly exist.

I don't post pro-Bush images, because I'm not as pro-Bush as you like to falsely paint me as. Bush is simply the lesser of two evils for me, in a bad 2004 choice between Bush and Kerry. I support him on some issues, and oppose him on many others. As I've said many times, my ideals are Republican, but on issues of immigration, free trade, offshoring of jobs, and corporate welfare, etc., I see the Republicans as abandoning their ideals, and abandoning the middle class (i.e., bipartisan treason). So I'm a swing voter, with loyalty to a populist candidate who emerges from either party, or a third party, who would fix the problems that both parties are evading.

There are certainly plenty of Republican, and even pro-Bush, images and video clips I could post here on a regular basis if I truly felt a loyalty to W. Bush, and if I were interested in the same level of vulgarity, spitefulness, personal insults, and outright lies that you jerks devote your lives to.
While you're accusing myself and others of partisanship, "fear", and "bigotry" that you yourselves unapologetically indulge in with pretty much every post. Oh, the irony...


I just googled Bush again. I went 20 pages in and couldn't find shit. Oh well.

Why I find pathetic is when people rationalize the actions of the president or any other American with high stature for some specious sense of patriotism. A country is nothing more then imaginary lines and yet here we are having wars over them. Makes me sick.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Covering Your Tracks The whomod Way - 2007-12-24 9:09 PM
 Originally Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man

 Originally Posted By: Ray

and bush has actually increased the threat of terrorism. while the simple view is that they're evil and that's that, but the real view of experts is that this is blowback. terrorism came about due to the hatred we created with our manipulations and heavyhandedness in the region. the invasion of iraq has increased the number of terrorists, caused much more resentment, and destabilized the region even further.


 Originally Posted By: WB
I've heard that slander raised repeatedly by the pacifist Bush-hating left, but I've yet to see any hard evidence to support that notion. It's pure anti-Bush propaganda.

aside from the fact that people who actually study these things say the same thing. what hard evidence do you need?


What people, what evidence?
I only hear the allegation made, I see no hard numbers or evidence.

It's just liberal myth and propaganda.

 Originally Posted By: Ray
i guess 9/11 wasn't hard evidence, huh?


Evidence of what? That Bill Clinton had ignored the threat of Al Qaida for 8 years, despite Mogadishu, despite the 1995 Khobar Towers bombing, despite the embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998, despite the U.S.S. Cole bombing in 2000, to name just a few?
9/11 demonstrated that Bush had barely been in office 8 months, and that since he didn't have enough time yet to pass, let alone implement, new policies of his own in that time, 9/11 was a situation that he inherited from Clinton, that FBI investigators said was a plot begun in 1998.

These type of attacks have been pre-emptively stopped since Bush took office. There's a lot that Bush has done wrong, but on this I support him. And if Al Qaida is "growing all the time" why are they leaving Iraq in defeat, as intercepted internal Al Qaida communications in Iraq reveal?

Yours is a partisan liar's argument, that ignores the true facts.

 Originally Posted By: Ray
Your side likes the simple "they hate us for our freedom" because you don't like the concept of blowback since that involves America doing something wrong. There are many more countries that are "freer" and more liberal than we are, but we're the one that's been in there fucking about in the region for 50 years.


Great, Ray, if your patriotism belongs to these other nations, why don't you move there?

You also ignore the participation of the British, French, Russians and Chinese in Africa and the Middle East, as well as other parts of the world. Again, yours is a distorted anti-American argument, that demonizes the U.S. for what every other nation is doing, leveraging its influence for its own military and economic interests.
I again repeat what I've said often: The U.S. has done more good and less evil than any other nation in history, with the power it has.
Mistakes yes, but also a greater good, that you choose to partisanly bury, in your rabid anti-Americanism.

 Originally Posted By: Ray

 Originally Posted By: WB
The simple fact is, we haven't been attacked again since 9-11, and Al Qaida is on the retreat in Iraq.

um, aren't we fighting the terrorists in Iraq? Therefore every single death and act of violence done there is a terrorist attack. Bush made it easier to attack us by putting the soldiers there and then fucking over the Iraqi people to the point that more people hate us and have a reason to want to fight us.
Saying Bush is successful in preventing terrorism because we haven't been attacked is such a logical fallacy. That's like me saying that my shirt prevents cancer because I don't have cancer.
It's not like we were having attacks all the time and then they stopped. There have been very few attacks on American soil in the past 230 years. And the one attack on Bush's watch showed his poor leadership. He ignored warnings, sat in inaction for 7 minutes after being told about them, and then attacked the wrong country.


Wow, 7 whole minutes!

Again:
Mogadishu, 1994
Khobar Towers, 1995
Kenya and Tanzania U.S. Embassies, 1998
U.S.S. Cole, 2000

Please name for me the sucessful attacks on the U.S. since 2001.

Oh, that's right, there haven't been any.

God forbid you should give Bush credit for that.

 Originally Posted By: Ray

 Originally Posted By: WB

As Hitler would have, as the Japanese would have.

Hitler had control of a large military that was capable of conquering countries and spreading across the world. Saddam could barely feed his people. He didn't have the resources to be a threat. Bin Laden didn't have a country or a military, he has a small group that is funded by his money. The key to victory would be to find his funds and freeze them.


Which is one of the things the U.S. has been doing since 9/11. But Al Qaida also receives funding from muslim charities worldwide.

Al Qaida has been estimated to be about 60,000 to 100,000 strong worldwide. With a lot of popular mon-military supporters beyond that, throughout the muslim world, and muslims in the U.S. and Europe. They don't have invading armies, but they can wage grandiose bombings such as 9/11, and as they have with Madrid trains and London subways.

With your head-in-the-sand denial motivating policy, Al Qaida would be dismissively enabled to get chemical, biological or "dirty bomb" nukes, to kill thousands more.

 Originally Posted By: Ray

 Originally Posted By: WB
Stuffing our heads in the sand and abandoning our allies abroad is not the way to fight islamic expansionism.



ok, well no one is suggesting that.


No, quite the contrary, that is exactly what you're suggesting. There's no actual threat, you say, and all the precautions to contain terrorism are just "right wing paranoia" and "fear tactics".

(And conversely, when Bush oficials prior to 9/11 didn't put the nation on yellow, orange, or red alert, you accused them of not protecting the nation. Now that they take the precautions and cover themselves by taking maximum precautions, you accuse them of "fearmongering". Well, which is it? You can't have it both ways. The only consistency in your views is a partisan hatred of Bush.)


 Originally Posted By: Ray
these terrorists aren't the nazi troops storming across the globe. they're a religious fundamental group that is fighting for their homeland and then trying to stop...LIBERALS...in their own countries from creating reform. these conservative villains can't be fought by some big war by bombing some city. unfortunately our conservative villains want a big show to scare people into following their own religious views.


In spite of your distorted hatred of your own country, the truth is, these muslim fanatics kill a lot of innocent people, utilizing terror to intimidate opposition, in tactics that are comparable to the nazis.

You paint these Al Qaida terrorists, who cut the heads off innocent men and women --who in no uncertain terms engage in ethnic cleansing-- as freedom fighters fighting for their homeland, against evil Americans.
Whereas the truth is, Americans are trying to keep these people (Sunnis, Shi'a and Kurds) from killing each other, to build a democratic Iraq where they can all live in freedom, and grow economically.
Posted By: Wank and Cry Re: Covering Your Tracks The whomod Way - 2007-12-24 9:28 PM
 Quote:
You paint these Al Qaida terrorists, who cut the heads off innocent men and women --who in no uncertain terms engage in ethnic cleansing-- as freedom fighters fighting for their homeland, against evil Americans.
Whereas the truth is, Americans are trying to keep these people (Sunnis, Shi'a and Kurds) from killing each other, to build a democratic Iraq where they can all live in freedom, and grow economically.


This is a good example of the kind of Naivity that always shoots you in the foot WB. You romantically paint America has these stalwart heroes but that's bullshit. We have alot of selfish reasons for what we're doing in Iraq. If all we wanted was world peace then we wouldn't be trying to claim the lions share of oil in Iraq. Let the Sunni's, Shia's and whoever the fuck else split it up since that's one of the big reasons there fighting. We wouldn't have interfered in there election (I still say that something was wrong there with the original person disappearing and Malaki coming in out of nowhere), if we were all that worried about Sunnis killing others we wouldn't be arming them, Nation building is an incredibly arrogant notion of thinking others should share are beliefs and system of govt.

I fail to see how it's okay of America to police the world and be surprised when other nations rebel.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Covering Your Tracks The whomod Way - 2007-12-24 10:52 PM
 Originally Posted By: Halo82
 Quote:
You paint these Al Qaida terrorists, who cut the heads off innocent men and women --who in no uncertain terms engage in ethnic cleansing-- as freedom fighters fighting for their homeland, against evil Americans.
Whereas the truth is, Americans are trying to keep these people (Sunnis, Shi'a and Kurds) from killing each other, to build a democratic Iraq where they can all live in freedom, and grow economically.


This is a good example of the kind of Naivity that always shoots you in the foot WB. You romantically paint America has these stalwart heroes but that's bullshit. We have alot of selfish reasons for what we're doing in Iraq. If all we wanted was world peace then we wouldn't be trying to claim the lions share of oil in Iraq.


You reveal your own naivete(the correct spelling of the word, by the way.)

If all we wanted was oil, we would have just cut a deal with Saddam Hussein, and let his genocide continue. It would have been a lot easier.

I don't apologize for the United States reaping some benefit from the Iraq invasion. So we cut a deal to buy most of their oil and secure a reliable supplier, so what? It's not like we're stealing their oil. We're buying it.

All nations ultimately pursue their own best national interests. But I'm proud of the fact that we pursue humanitarian interests in Iraq at the same time, when we could have just cut a deal with their previous dictator, and let the Iraqi people twist in the wind, if we were as cynical and evil a nation as you apparently believe (naively) that we are.
And I'm also proud of our military action in places like Haiti, Bosnia, and Liberia, where we have intervened on behalf of nations that arguably had no oil or anything else of military or economic interest to the United States. We just wanted to help them, and prevent political brushfires from spreading.

Your blind cynicism makes you have unwarranted contempt for your own nation, when in truth, with perhaps some healthy skepticism, you should be able to acknowledge the good we are doing.

 Originally Posted By: Halo82
Let the Sunni's, Shia's and whoever the fuck else split it up since that's one of the big reasons there fighting. We wouldn't have interfered in there election (I still say that something was wrong there with the original person disappearing and Malaki coming in out of nowhere), if we were all that worried about Sunnis killing others we wouldn't be arming them, Nation building is an incredibly arrogant notion of thinking others should share are beliefs and system of govt.


"There" fighting because of old grudges and religious conflict that goes back to the death of Mohammed, and Sunni/Shia dispute over his rightful heir.

We could "not interfere" as you say, and just stand by while Muqtada Al Sadr or some other radical fundamentalist takes control (as Bill Clinton stood by while autocratic forces took control of Russia in the 1990s). But that would defeat the purpose of going into Iraq to establish democracy in the first place. We have to establish democracy and see it firmly entrenched, before we withdraw our hand from the region.

And once again, the "incredibly arrogant notion of thinking others should share are beliefs and system of govt" worked pretty well in Germany and Japan, among other places. So while it's healthy skepticism to insure that we are most effectively establishing democracy in these places (as Rumsfeld failed to do, and has since been replaced with others doing a more effective job), it's partisan denial to not acknowledge the progress being made.

 Originally Posted By: Halo82
I fail to see how it's okay of America to police the world and be surprised when other nations rebel.


Again, in retrospect, Germany and Japan would say U.S. nation-building is a good thing. Most of the nations of Africa are very grateful for U.S. aid.

There are cases of over-reach by the U.S. I can acknowledge. But again, I think the world is a better and safer place, or at least has been for the last 70 years, because of U.S. "arrogance" and police action.
But the era of U.S. predominance is coming to a close, as China, India and the European Union seek to take the place of the United States. Funny how their "arrogance" and imperialism doesn't bother you, and ours does.

Could it possibly be because your views are, I don't know... partisanly anti-American?

Posted By: Wank and Cry Re: Covering Your Tracks The whomod Way - 2007-12-25 12:39 AM
 Quote:
You reveal your own naivete(the correct spelling of the word, by the way.)




Banal, redundant, and petty as ever.

 Quote:
If all we wanted was oil, we would have just cut a deal with Saddam Hussein, and let his genocide continue. It would have been a lot easier.


No, cause he wasn't willing to deal.

That makes sense doesn't it since he was an evil evil man? Considering the evil
evil man he was would that have been okay with you if he was willing to deal?

 Quote:
I don't apologize for the United States reaping some benefit from the Iraq invasion. So we cut a deal to buy most of their oil and secure a reliable supplier, so what? It's not like we're stealing their oil. We're buying it.


Yeah, sure, reaping the benefits of a war based off a false premise and taken further then it needed to be, but there's nothing to apologize for.

 Quote:
All nations ultimately pursue their own best national interests. But I'm proud of the fact that we pursue humanitarian interests in Iraq at the same time, when we could have just cut a deal with their previous dictator, and let the Iraqi people twist in the wind, if we were as cynical and evil a nation as you apparently believe (naively) that we are.


Must you always rip me off? Everytime I call you something you respond with the same accusation. Fucking pee wee herman tactics aren't hip dude.

Anyway, the above is nothing more then a rationalization. "Everybody does it so we should too". Our best intrest is too focuse on what we can do in our part of the world and not over extend ourselves creating instability and vulnerability. No, we're not pursuing humanitarian intrests we're pursing power by making Iraq a stable beachead in the Middle East.

 Quote:
And I'm also proud of our military action in places like Haiti, Bosnia, and Liberia, where we have intervened on behalf of nations that arguably had no oil or anything else of military or economic interest to the United States. We just wanted to help them, and prevent political brushfires from spreading.


I don't really know the History there but I'm willing to bet that if I looked into it I'd find big gaping whole's in your romantic view of what happened in those nations.

 Quote:
Your blind cynicism makes you have unwarranted contempt for your own nation, when in truth, with perhaps some healthy skepticism, you should be able to acknowledge the good we are doing.


Who's says I don't? I acknowledge the good in all things, I just don't always care. I don't give a shit that Hitler got the trains running, I don't care that Jeffrey Dahmer saved a boy from drowning, I don't care John Wayne Gacy entertained sick children, and I don't care that you have a cool avatar. Some things are ultimately evil.*

 Quote:
"There" fighting because of old grudges and religious conflict that goes back to the death of Mohammed, and Sunni/Shia dispute over his rightful heir.


THEY'RE (feel better now? ) fighting for lots of reasons. I said the oil thing was a big reason. And it is.

 Quote:
We could "not interfere" as you say, and just stand by while Muqtada Al Sadr or some other radical fundamentalist takes control (as Bill Clinton stood by while autocratic forces took control of Russia in the 1990s). But that would defeat the purpose of going into Iraq to establish democracy in the first place. We have to establish democracy and see it firmly entrenched, before we withdraw our hand from the region.


Maybe Clinton didn't do anything cause the Republicans were cock blocking him like during Black Hawk Down?

You know, you always make it sound like bad things happen only cause America doesn't get involved but after we pulled out of both Vietnam and Lebanon things ultimately got better as opposed to Korea that's all shades of fucked up and we're still there. Explain that one.

 Quote:
Again, in retrospect, Germany and Japan would say U.S. nation-building is a good thing. Most of the nations of Africa are very grateful for U.S. aid.


Such selective memory. There was alot more to it with Germany and Japan like the threat of the USSR, German and Japan weren't engaged in a Civil War, WE were the ones who knocked down Iraq as opposed to German and Japan already being fucked up and it's alot diffrent building a single nation then trying to spread Democracy through the whole fucking arab world.

 Quote:
There are cases of over-reach by the U.S. I can acknowledge. But again, I think the world is a better and safer place, or at least has been for the last 70 years, because of U.S. "arrogance" and police action.


Yeah, Korea and Vietnam were awesome. Plus, isn't it one of the Conservative positions that things are only so fucked up because America's been so indiffrent?

 Quote:
But the era of U.S. predominance is coming to a close, as China, India and the European Union seek to take the place of the United States. Funny how their "arrogance" and imperialism doesn't bother you, and ours does.

Could it possibly be because your views are, I don't know... partisanly anti-American?



That's just a flat out ridiculous. Who says it doesn't bother me? I just don't care as much cause I don't live in those nations. So, I guess that means I'm pro-American since I care about it more. But that's just coincidental. As long as I'm sincere I don't give a fuck what you call it.
Posted By: Libra Re: Covering Your Tracks The whomod Way - 2008-05-26 3:18 AM
COMMISSION OF INQUIRY ON CRIMES
AGAINST HUMANITY COMMITTED BY THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION OF THE
UNITED STATES (hereinafter The Commission)
FINDINGS:
WARS OF AGGRESSION INDICTMENT
Count 1: The Bush Administration authorized a war of aggression against Iraq.
As to count 1, we find that the Bush Commission authorized, under the doctrine of “preemptive
war” and a policy of “regime change”, a war of aggression against Iraq.
The doctrine of “preventive war” is not recognized as a justification for war under international
law. The goal of “regime change” is also not recognized as a legitimate purpose for waging war
under international law. Notwithstanding these facts, the Bush Administration launched a full
scale war against Iraq, a sovereign state; it did so not in self-defense or under the authorization of
the United Nations Security Council. The Bush Administration knew prior to the 2003 invasion
that Iraq had no connection to Al Qaeda, was disarmed, had no weapons of mass destruction, and
was incapable of mounting a credible defense much less an attack on the United States. Accordingly,
the Iraq war is an aggressive war in violation of international law.2
The Bush Administration steadfastly asserted only one justification for its invasion of Iraq: it
claimed that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction3. The Bush Administration fixed and manipulated
intelligence on the existence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq in order to mislead deliberately
and persuade the United States population and their elected representatives to support
the war of aggression. Accordingly, what the Bush Administration called intelligence to justify
the invasion of Iraq was politically motivated propaganda deliberately concocted to prosecute a
war of aggression.4
Count 2: The Bush Administration authorized conduct of the war that involved the commission
of “war crimes.”
As to Count 2, we find that the Bush Administration authorized conduct of the war that involved
the commission of war crimes.
As discussed above, the war is a war of aggression against the Iraq people. A war of aggression
is termed the supreme international war crime in international law because it is the world’s most
egregious war crime. This is so because it contains within it the combined atrocities of all war
crimes. In addition to committing the supreme international war crime, the Bush Administration, pursuant to its war of aggression in Iraq, has committed additional enumerated war crimes that
include but are not limited to the following:
1. The use of force beginning with the campaign of “Shock and Awe” was not a necessary
means or necessary measure to attain a lawful objective and it was a severe example of
overwhelming, indiscriminate, and disproportionate use of military force against a nation
state.5
2. The indiscriminate use of weapons such cluster munitions, incendiary bombs, depleted
uranium, and chemical weapons for which it is reasonably foreseeable would have caused
and indeed caused significant civilian injuries.6
Count 3: The Bush Administration authorized the occupation of Iraq involving, and continuing
to involve, the commission of “war crimes.”
As to Count 3, we find that the Bush Administration authorized the occupation of Iraq involving
and continuing to involve, the commission of war crimes.
In the spring of 2003, the Bush Administration announced a military victory in Iraq signaled by
its destruction of the Iraqi Ba’athist government at which point the United States proceeded to
occupy Iraq.
For the duration of the United States occupation of Iraq, the United States is failing to safeguard
the lives of Iraqi civilians that have resulted from the devastation created by its intentionally
bombing of civilian infrastructure, termed “Shock and Awe” and created by its ongoing criminal
acts that include but are not limited to the following:
1. Because the invasion of Iraq was the supreme war crime, the resultant occupation of Iraq
itself is a war crime.7 The occupation consisted of additional war crimes such as: collective
punishment upon the Iraqi people in the form of post invasion intentional and targeted
attacks upon civilian populations, hospitals, medical centers, residential neighborhoods,
electrical power stations and water purification facilities8 the wide spread use of
torture against the Iraqi people,9 mass arrests and detention of civilians and civilian home
demolitions10 and the destruction and desecration of the cultural and archeological heritage
of the Iraqi people11
2. Killing and injuring individual civilians through random fire during military operations
or in response to attacks by resistance forces, e.g. killing of over 40 people in a wedding
near Al Qaim, and over 600 people in Fallujah, half of them women and children. The
Bush Administration declared the City of Fallujah, a population of 350,000 people, a free
fire zone. As a result, the Bush Administration bombed 70 % of the city in 2004. The Bush Administration also extensively and indiscriminately bombed Ramadi, Samara,
Haditha, Alkaim, Abuhisma, Sania, Najaf, Kut, Baghdad, Musul and other Iraqi cities
causing substantial civilian deaths and severe injuries.12
3. The failure of civil reconstruction, the impeding of medical care during the occupation,
and the facilitation of the corporate looting of Iraq through the rewriting of Iraq’s laws.13;
4. Deliberately bombing civilian and neutral broadcasting outlets and otherwise restricting
press and media coverage of actual events.14; and
5. Extrajudicial killings at checkpoint.15
TORTURE, RENDITION, ILLEGAL DETENTION and MURDER INDICTMENT
Torture:
Count 1: The Bush Administration authorized the use of torture and abuse in violation of
international humanitarian and human rights law, customary international law, and domestic
constitutional and statutory law.
As to Count 1, we find that the Bush Administration authorized the use of torture and abuse in
violation of international humanitarian and human rights law, customary international law, and
domestic constitutional and statutory law.
In December 2001, the Bush Administration implemented the Special Access Program that authorized
the secret seizure, detention, and interrogation of persons and subjected them to torture.
The torture included but was not limited to: water boarding, beatings, the administration of electric
shocks, extreme temperatures, denial of pain medication for injuries, severe burning, deprivation
of food and water, and threats of death and sexual assault of family members.16.
In January 2002, the Bush Administration declared that Geneva Conventions protections will not
be honored for the “war on terror” prisoners held at the Guantánamo detention center in Cuba. In
August 2002, the Administration attempted to redefine “torture” to escape liability and/or insure
immunity for those who authorized or committed torture. Under the Bush Administration’s new
torture definition, torture only exists when a person is put at risk of complete organ failure or
death. The Bush Administration also examined the ways that it could avoid liability under circumstances
where its actions exemplified its new definition of torture, including raising the defenses
of necessity and self-defense.17
The United States Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld, admitted that Guantánamo prisoner,
Al-Qahtani was tortured at Guantánamo. Other Guantánamo detainees were subjected to ex-tremes of temperature, deprived of food and water, shackled for days to the floor in extreme positions
calculated to cause pain, and denied medical care. As a direct result of this torture, detainees
suffered permanent injuries including the loss of limbs and broken bones. Other detainees
suffered severe personality decompensation and are now suffering from a range of mental illnesses.
The techniques of torture used at Guantánamo were transferred by General Geoffrey
Miller to and used on the detainees imprisoned at Abu Ghraib in Iraq.18
Persons held under United States custody in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Guantánamo as well as those
held under the custody of the United States during rendition were subjected to torture, and cruel,
inhuman and degrading treatment as a matter of policy and systemic practice.19
Secret detention itself is a form of torture for the person detained and for the families who were
faced with a situation that amounted to that of enforced disappearance of an individual20.
Rendition:
Count 2: The Bush Administration authorized the transfer (“rendition”) of persons held in
U.S. custody to foreign countries where torture is known to be practiced.
As to Count 2, the Commission finds that the Bush Administration authorized the seizure, transfer,
and detention (“rendition”) of persons to foreign countries where torture is known to be practiced.
21
In late 2001, at the request of CIA Director, George Tenet, the President authorized the creation
of CIA-run secret detention centers in countries outside the United States where post 9/11 detainees
would be sent (“rendered”) and subjected to practices that would be unlawful in the
United States.22
The original rendition program was conceived by the CIA and authorized in the 1990’s by the
Clinton Administration. The strategic target of the CIA rendition program has always been, and
remains the global network known as Al-Qaeda. Post 9/11, under the Bush Administration, the
CIA has taken a much larger role in the rendition program to include its participation in interrogation
of detainees rather than just placing them behind bars. Secretary of State, Condoleezza
Rice referred to this program as “extraordinary rendition.23The result has been that captured suspects are placed outside of the reach of any judicial system
and are subjected to enhanced interrogation techniques that are in themselves forms of torture.24
The Bush Administration undertook an untold number of these “extraordinary renditions” where
the abductees, while under US custody or control, were tortured by CIA agents or foreign operatives.
Typical of these renditions is the case of Egyptian citizen, Hassam Mustafa Nasr, known as
Abu Omar. He was abducted by the CIA in Milan Italy on June 17th 2003 and transferred to
Egypt where he was detained. Abu Omar was tortured after his abduction and prior to his being
sent to Egypt during which time the CIA participated in the torture investigation. CIA operatives
acknowledged that rendered suspects were being tortured in Egypt. Maher Arar, a Canadian citizen,
born in Syria was detained in the United States and rendered to Syria against his wishes
where he was tortured and held for ten and a half months. Mamdouh Habib was picked up in
Pakistan and sent to Egypt where he was tortured for four months before being transferred to
Guantánamo by the United States.25
Illegal Detention:
Count 3: The Bush Administration authorized the indefinite detention of persons seized in
foreign combat zones and in other countries far from any combat zone and denied them the
protections of the Geneva Conventions on the treatment of prisoners of war and the protections
of the US Constitution.
As to Count 3, the Commission finds that the Bush Administration authorized the indefinite detention
of person seized in foreign combat zones and in other countries far from any combat zone
and denied them the protections of the Geneva Conventions on the treatment of prisoners of war
and the protections of the US Constitution.
On November 13th 2001, the Bush Administration created a “trial system” for trying non-citizen
detainees where the United States does not provide these detainees due process protections that
are well established in domestic and international law. The “trial system” is to be held in
Guantánamo where detainees are deprived due process rights under the fourth, fifth, sixth, and
eighth amendments of the United States Constitution.
Persons have been or are currently detained in these detention centers without charge and are being
held indefinitely. These US controlled detention centers are in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba as
well as in several sites in Eastern Europe and North Africa. The Bush Administration declared that the Geneva Conventions do not apply to these detainees who were defined as “enemy combatants”,
a term not valid under international law.26
Round ups
Count 4: The Bush Administration authorized the round-up and detention in the United
States of tens of thousands of immigrants on pretextual grounds and held them without
charge or trial in violation of international law and domestic constitutional and civil rights
law.
As to Count 4, the Commission finds that the Bush Administration authorized the round-up and
detention in the United States of thousands (the exact number is unknown) of immigrants on pretextual
grounds and held many of them illegally long past the resolution of their immigration
status.
The FBI and INS, under the rubric of very large immigration sweeps, rounded up and detained
immigrants, mostly Arabs, Muslims or South Asian men. The sweeps were a flagrant example
of racial profiling. The detainees could not call their family, nor call their consulate. Very few
were permitted out on bond. They were in a legal black hole. Many were brutalized by guards
and held in virtual solitary confinement. These actions were in violation of international law and
domestic constitutional law.
In September 2001, the Bush Administration authorized the seizures and detention of US immigrants
in US detention centers. The seizures and detentions in the United States were called “material
witness “seizures by the US Justice Department. The Commission finds that the Bush Administration
held possibly hundreds of people under the material witness statute without charge
or trial in violation of international and domestic constitutional and civil rights law. In many
cases, people who merely looked Arab or South Asian were picked up first based on uncorroborated
tips and then held if they had a minor immigration violation or were designated as a material
witness. No one knows exactly how many are still being held in the United States pending
deportation or as material witnesses; evidence strongly suggests that it may be hundreds. They
are held without charge and denied basic principles of due process and judicial review. These
practices contravene the International Covenant for Civil and Political Rights.
Another category of detainees are people who entered the United States for purposes other than
becoming a permanent resident, for example, on a visitor or student visa (non-immigrants).
Thousands of such individuals were subjected to the National Registration Act, a post 9/11 law.
This act was intended to register and monitor non-immigrants from countries designated by the resting and deporting these individuals. In addition, the Act was enforced in an discriminatory
manner only against Muslims and Arab visitors, and in an arbitrary manner in that some people
were deported to countries from which they had previously been granted political asylum. The
discriminatory and arbitrary enforcement of the Act contravene the International Covenant for
Civil and Political Rights.27
Indefinite Detentions
Count 5: The Bush Administration used military force to seize and detain indefinitely
without charges U.S. citizens, denying them the right to challenge their detention in U.S,
courts.
As to Count 5, the Commission finds that the Bush Administration used military force to seize
and detain indefinitely without charges U.S. citizens, denying them the right to challenge their
detention in U.S. courts.
The Bush Administration seized and detained within the United States persons who are United
States citizens. The Bush Administration has classified these seized persons as “enemy combatants.”
For example, Yaser Hamdi, A US citizen, was detained in Afghanistan and placed in
United States custody. There is also Jose Padilla, a US citizen, who was arrested in O’Hare airport
by law enforcement agent and later transferred to military custody at the request of the
President. These detainees were taken into US military custody after they had been declared
“enemy combatants” by the Bush Administration. All such “enemy combatant” detainees were
denied a judicial hearing on the facts or on the legality of their detention. In each case and in
violation of the US Constitution and the Geneva Conventions, the United States took the position
that the president has the authority to hold “enemy combatants” and decide their status unilaterally.
The US Supreme Court subsequently gave meaning to the Bush Administration’s made up term
“enemy combatant.” The Court limited the meaning to persons who, while in Afghanistan, had
taken up arms against the United States in alliance with the Taliban or other terrorists and as long
as hostilities existed. The Bush Administration proceeded to violate the Supreme Court’s definition
as exemplified by the fact that Mr. Padilla was not arrested in Afghanistan or anywhere
near a battlefield, and was not shown to have ever taken up arms against the United States in Afghanistan
or elsewhere.28
Murder
Count 6: The Bush Administration committed murder by authorizing the CIA to kill those
that the president designates either US citizens or non-citizens, anywhere in the world.

As to Count 6, the Commission finds that the Bush Administration committed murder by authorizing
the CIA to kill those that the president designates, either US citizens or non-citizens, anywhere
in the world and where this authorization was acted upon causing death.
Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld, issued a secret directive to Special Operations forces
allowing them to “capture terrorists for interrogation or, if necessary, to kill them” anywhere in
the world.29. The Bush Administration had already issued a presidential finding authorizing the
killing of terrorist leaders, but the secret Rumsfeld directive increased such efforts.30 The Bush
Administration, claiming that terrorists are military combatants, never rescinded a preexisting
presidential executive order signed by US President Ford in 1976 that banned all assassinations.
In February 2002, a Predator drone missile was launched by the CIA; it targeted for assassination
someone intelligence agents thought was bin Laden. The drone hit its target, but killed three innocent
Afghan farmers instead.31 The first successful assassination takes place in November
2003 when the CIA launched a Hellfire drone missile that killed US citizen Kamal Derwish and
five others in Yemen. The United States considered the dead men to be enemy combatants in its
global war on terror.32
GLOBAL WARMING INDICTMENT
Denial and Distortion of Scientific Consensus and Findings
Count 1: The Bush Administration has consistently denied the scientific consensus around
global warming and its causes. Administration officials have misrepresented, distorted, and
suppressed scientific information on the subject, especially as it would impact public opinion.
As to Count 1, the Commission finds that the Bush Administration has consistently denied the
scientific consensus around global warming and its causes. Administration officials have misrepresented,
distorted, and suppressed scientific information on the subject, especially as it would
impact public opinion.
The Bush Administration, early in its existence, requested the National Academy of Sciences
(NAS) to review the findings of the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
(IPCC). The IPCC is composed of 2,000 scientists; they had been studying global warming since
1989. The Bush Administration also wanted the NAS to provide it a further assessment of what
climate science says about the reality of global warming/climate change. The NAS subsequently strongly confirmed the findings of the IPCC that had affirmed the existence of global warming
and climate change. In addition, the American Geophysical Union (AGU), the world’s largest
organization of earth scientists had also released a strong report describing the human causes of
disruption of the Earth’s climate.
Despite the scientific consensus evidenced in the IPCC, NAS, and the AGU reports on the existence
of global warming and the human behavior that is causing it, the Bush Administration contended
in full contradiction and misrepresentation of the scientific consensus presented to it, that
uncertainties in climate projections existed and that fossil fuel emissions are too great to warrant
mandatory action to slow emissions.
The Bush Administration successfully lobbied to have the chief of the IPCC, Dr. Robert Watson,
removed from the IPCC.33
An example of the Bush Administration actively suppressing information showing the existence
of global warming is illustrated by its pressuring the Environmental Protection Agency to remove
any reference discussing the existence to global warming and extreme climate change and
its causes from its 2002 annual air pollution report.34
An example of the Bush Administration actively distorting the science on global warming and
extreme climate change was evident when a whistleblower, Rick Piltz, a senior associate from a
federal climate change program publicly disclosed proof of the Bush Administration editing federal
documents to distort the science. The New York Times printed excerpts of the documents in
June 2005. The documents showed that a Mr. Philip A. Cooney, chief of the White House Council
on Environmental Quality, also a former manager for the American Petroleum Institute who
had led the oil industry’s drive to prevent restrictions on greenhouse emissions, and who had no
scientific training; redrafted the federal climate change official report to deny the validity of the
scientific consensus on global warming and extreme climate change. Cooney and his staff had
made 100 to 450 pertinent editorial changes per report.35
Among the topics that the Bush Administration is attempting to keep from the public are the national
and regional deleterious outcomes to the earth and its human population from global
warming and extreme climate change: for example, increased heat waves and corresponding
public health threats, droughts and conflicts from water shortages, flooding that will destroy costal
infrastructure and wetlands as occurred due to Katrina and other hurricanes, irreversible destruction
of coral reefs indispensable to sea life, massive economic dislocation with the elimination
of major coastal industries and government and corporate action that could be taken to prevent,
mitigate, and adapt to the coming disasters. As a result of the Bush Administrations behavior to misrepresent, distort, and suppress information
on global warming and extreme climate change, the actual problem solving of global warming
has been set back ten years.36
Obstructionism on International Efforts
Count 2: The Bush Administration has refused to take any measures to curb the emissions
of greenhouse gases, guided by narrow corporate interests. It has withdrawn from any international
efforts that would impose binding restrictions, however minimal. It has done
this with full knowledge of the catastrophic effects of global warming and the disproportionate
U. S. share of world greenhouse emissions, the leading cause of global warming.
As to Count 2, the Commission finds that the Bush Administration has refused to take any measures
to curb the emissions of greenhouse gases, guided by narrow corporate interests. It has
withdrawn from any international efforts that would impose binding restrictions, however minimal.
It has done this with full knowledge of the catastrophic effects of global warming and the
disproportionate U. S. share of world greenhouse emissions, the leading cause of global warming.
The United States, under the Bush Administration, withdrew from the Kyoto Protocol which is
an international effort to reduce greenhouse emissions and end global warming. It did so despite
the fact that the United States has only 5% of the world’s population and is responsible for nearly
25% of greenhouse emissions.37
Despite a pledge by George Bush during the 2000 Presidential campaign to mandate mandatory
emission reductions of carbon dioxide on the US based coal fired power plants, President Bush
reversed this pledge two months after his inauguration in 2001.38 In March 2001, under the leadership
of Vice President, Dick Cheney, the Bush Administration presented its energy plan. This
plan, the Report of the National Energy Policy Development Group, called for the construction
of 1,300 to 1,900 new power plants, most of them coal fired.39
The motives of the Bush Administration are clear. The Bush Administration is deliberately targeting
the information that expert policy-makers have on climate change in an effort to protect
the most powerful industries on the planet: the oil, gas and coal industries, in full disregard of the
harm to the environment and to the most vulnerable people globally. According to a World
Health Organization study, 160,000 people are dying every year as a result of extreme climate
change related to floods, hurricanes, droughts, disease, and food shortages.

For the peoples of Africa, the threat is worse, because the temperature increases over many areas
of the continent will be double the global average. This suggests that 182 million people in sub-
Sahara Africa could die of diseases directly attributable to climate change by the end of the century.
41
Indigenous people of the Pacific Islands, The United States Great Lakes, Southwest, and Great
Plains regions are experiencing the severe difficulties reported by the UN. Indigenous people of
the Artic region, specifically the Inuit and the Yupik, are experiencing enormous difficulties as
well. They are experiencing life threatening accidents due to falling through thinning ice, community
displacements, previously unknown health problems such as sunburn, skin cancer, cataracts,
immune system disorders and heat related health problems.42
Despite the scientific consensus on the present known toll in human death and suffering attributed
to global warming and extreme climate change and the prospects for far more catastrophic
and irreversible injury to the Earth and its human population, the Bush Administration has used
its enormous power through deliberate deception, to diffuse and confuse the focused attention of
the world on the multilateral framework of the Kyoto protocol and the climate convention. The
Bush Administration used its power to exacerbate the problems associated with extreme climate
change by promulgating policies and practices that actually increased global warming and extreme
climate change and that simultaneously limited the capacity of the world’s people to respond
before irreversible injuries result.43
SUMMARY
The Commission considers the deliberate acts and failures to act by the Bush Administration regarding
global warming to be systemic. We also consider the global consequences of this behavior
to be both grave and foreseeable. The Administration’s behavior also constitutes breaches of
UN treaties that the US has signed and ratified related to protecting the global environment: they
are the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change that commits the US to developing policies
aimed at returning its greenhouse gas emissions to 1990 levels. We also find, as it pertains to
the fundamental rights of sovereign indigenous people of the Americas that the Bush Administration
is violating indigenous people’s fundamental human rights as protected by the American
Declaration of the Rights and Duties of Man.
We find that the disproportionate role that the United State plays in polluting the earth is directly
causing global warming and extreme climate change. We also find that the systemic nature of the
Bush Administration’s deliberate refusal to act reasonably to curb global warming combined with its deliberate acts that directly increase global warming and extreme climate change place
the world’s people at imminent risk of unspeakable and irreversible destruction in the near future.
Accordingly, we find that the Bush Administration is committing a crime against humanity.
GLOBAL HEALTH INDICTMENT
Imposition of Abstinence-Only HIV prevention Programs
Count 1: The Bush Administration is using its political influence, aid, and funding in the
sphere of HIV/AIDS prevention and treatment to advance policies and programs that
worsen the AIDS pandemic. Guided by a Christian fundamentalist ideological agenda, the
administration is promoting and forcing deadly abstinence-only HIV prevention and sex
education programs instead of proven comprehensive programs that comprise consistent
and correct use of condoms.
As to Count 1, the Commission finds that the Bush Administration is using its political influence,
aid, and funding in the sphere of HIV/AIDS prevention and treatment to advance policies and
programs that worsen the AIDS pandemic. We also find that the Administration, guided by a
Christian fundamentalist ideological agenda, is promoting and forcing deadly abstinence-only
HIV prevention and sex education programs instead of proven comprehensive programs that
comprise consistent and correct use of condoms.
The Bush Administration’s abstinence-only policy influences global HIV prevention efforts. It is
called the Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief (PEPFAR). It is a moralistic, Christian fundamentalist,
and non public health oriented approach, promulgated in February 2004; it focuses on 15
countries in sub-Saharan Africa, the Caribbean, and Asia that are severely stricken by the AIDS
pandemic.
PEPFAR requires that grantees devote at least 33% of prevention spending to abstinence-until
marriage programs. These policies are inherently coercive in that they withhold needed information
and they also promote inaccurate opinions and harmful outcomes. The PEPFAR law includes
no comparable minimum for condom distribution; hence prevention funds are steered to
abstinence only programs.44
The Bush Administration developed PEPFAR through a closed-door process that did not include
participation of key stakeholders in the global AIDS policy debate. The Bush Administration
continues to be the primary donor for HIV/AIDS programs in Uganda and in the world.45 The PEPFAR policies are reversing the well-recognized successes that Uganda had achieved in
preventing the spread of HIV between 1991 and 2001.46
Global inequality drives health disparity. AIDS funds represent a substantial sum of money to
Uganda, and other desperately impoverished that are already critically financially dependent on
western international financial institutions dominated by the United States. Substantial economic
dependence on the West, coupled by the Bush Administration’s manipulation of AIDS funding
to promulgate a religious doctrine at the expense of sound public health policy and science, has
shattered coercively and dramatically Uganda’s preexisting successful AIDS domestic priorities.
As a practical matter, many third-world countries, such as Uganda, have little or no choice because
of a lack of public health funds and infrastructure but to comply with PEPFAR.47
In 2005, the Ugandan Minister of Health, the Hon. Maj. Gen. Jim K. Muhwezi reported that despite
the historical record of Uganda’s success in reducing HIV, the Uganda government, in an
effort to prevent a drying up of AIDS resources, since 2003, started downplaying its own proven
successful track record and re-wrote its own history in an obvious attempt to please the United
States that had started pouring millions of dollars into ideologically driven PEPFAR HIVprevention
programs that provided misleading information about the effectiveness of condoms
and that failed to equip people, particularly women with the essential skills needed to negotiate
safer sex.
Ambassador Stephen Lewis, the United Nations secretary general’s special envoy for HIV/AIDS
in Africa since 2001, and the former Canadian ambassador to the United Nations, stated the
PEPFAR policies in the Uganda will cause significant numbers of HIV and other STD infections
in Uganda which should never have occurred.48
Imposition of “Gag Rule”

Count 2: The Bush Administration has re-instated the “gag-rule” restricts foreign organizations
that receive US funds from using their own, non-US. Funds to provide legal abortion
services or even provide accurate medical counseling of reproductive health clinics dependent
on international funding in very poor parts of the world. In man areas, these clinics
have also been the only source of HIV/AIDS prevention and care, including the supply
of much-needed and life saving condoms.
As to Count 2, the Commission finds that The Bush Administration has re-instated the “gagrule”
that restricts foreign organizations that receive US funds from using their own, non-US
funds to provide legal abortion services or even provide accurate medical counseling of reproductive
health in clinics dependent on international funding in very poor parts of the world. In
many areas, these clinics have also been the only source of HIV/AIDS prevention and care, including
the supply of much-needed and life saving condoms.
The Bush Administration put the gag-rule in place on the first business day of its administration
in 2001. The gag rule denies foreign organizations receiving U.S. family planning assistance the
right to use their own non-U.S. funds to provide legal abortion, counsel or referral for abortion,
or lobby for the legalization of abortion in their own country. NGO’s must withhold information
from women about the option of legal abortion and where to obtain safe abortion services using
their own, non US government funds to do so. Also, these NGOs are banned from disseminating
any information regarding the health hazards of unsafe abortion, or provide legal abortion services
with non-U.S. funding.
The gag rule is a public health disaster in the developing world and places people at grievous risk
of injury, disease and death: about 70,000 women die each year from unsafe abortions, many of
them leaving young children behind. By preventing high-risk pregnancies, family planning could
save at least 25% of these women’s lives.
The gag rule has exacerbated and intensified a condom shortage across the developing world and
decreased the effectiveness of HIV prevention programs. Although the global gag rule does not
apply to HIV/AIDS assistance, most family planning organizations have been denied HIV/AIDS
resources because implementing partners have been chilled by the gag rule and abstinence only
policies; the partners are frightened of retribution, and scrutiny from the right wing ideologically
driven Bush Administration. This is a disastrous outcome given the fact that family planning
providers are crucial to HIV/AIDS prevention programs.49
In 2005, 5 million people were infected with HIV globally. The Commission finds that the Bush
Administration’s reproductive health global policy is complicit in putting millions of people
around the world at risk for HIV by intentionally obstructing the dissemination of crucial medical
information about condoms as a well proven effective means of HIV prevention, to vulner-able, powerless and poor people, in the midst of an HIV pandemic. This behavior is unethical,
morally reprehensible, and shocks the conscience.50
Distortion of Science
Count 3: The Bush Administration and its political operatives have distorted sound science
and attempted to suppress medical research studies in HIV prevention when it conflicts
with the ideology of the Christian Right.
As to Count 3, the Commission finds that the Bush Administration and its political operatives
have distorted sound science and attempted to suppress medical research studies in HIV prevention
when it conflicts with the ideology of the Christian Right.
As early as 1997, the Joint United Nations programme on HIV/AIDS found evidence that sexual
health education for children and young people that included the promotion of condom use and
safer sexual practices, which is one the main scientifically proven forms of HIV/AIDS prevention,
did not increase participant’s sexual activity. Indifferent to this data, the Bush Administration
pursued its AIDS global agenda when it clearly knew or should have known that its abstinence-
only HIV/AIDS prevention strategies had not demonstrated that they did or could prevent
the spread of HIV.
The Institute of Medicine, a body of experts that acts under a United States Congressional charter
as an advisor to the U.S. federal government, noted in 2001, that there was no evidence supporting
abstinence-only program, and that investing “millions of dollars of federal…funds…in abstinence-
only programs with no evidence constitutes poor fiscal and health policy.” The Institute
simultaneously concluded that scientific studies have shown that comprehensive sex and
HIV/AIDS programs and condom availability programs can be effective in reducing high-risk
sexual behaviors.
In contravention of federal government experts’ recommendations, the Bush Administration required
that the abstinence-only programs in Uganda be administered according to the precise
guidelines evaluated and criticized by the Institute of Medicine. These policies continue notwithstanding
an ever-growing scientific consensus of the ineffectiveness and potential harms of these
programs.
In 2001, under pressure from anti-condom activists within the Bush Administration, the Centers
for Disease Control (CDC) removed a 1999 fact sheet on condom use that encouraged sexually
active youth to use condoms to prevent HIV and other sexually transmitted diseases. In 2002, the
CDC replaced the fact sheet with biased information regarding condom use that dissuades use. This action demonstrates a willingness to censor vital, life saving information in the face of the
HIV pandemic.51
Absent any scientific support and notwithstanding peer review scientific research to the contrary,
The Bush Administration, in December 2002, at the United Nations Fifth Asia-Pacific Population
conference in Bangkok claimed that the promotion of abstinence-only is preferred as the
healthiest choice for sexually active unmarried adolescents. In addition, the Bush Administration
has erroneously linked condom failure with the relatively high prevalence of human papillomavirus
(HPV) as a means to dissuade people from the use of condoms. This deliberate misinformation
is spread despite the solid science that HPV is spread by exposure to areas not covered or
protected by condoms.
The Commission is persuaded that the Bush Administration’s ideologically driven policy has
caused countless deaths in the five years since the Bush Administration has been in power.
Uganda’s AIDS Commissioner, Kihumuro Apuuli announced that HIV infections have almost
doubled in Uganda over the past two years, from 70,000 in 2003 at the approximate time that
PEPFAR was initiated in Uganda to 130,000 in 2005.52
Restriction of Generics
Count 4: The Bush Administration has used its political and economic power to coerce
other countries into agreements that severely restrict and manufacture and supply of generic
drugs, the only affordable option for most HIV positive people in the Third World.
As to Count 4, the Commission finds that the Bush Administration has used its influence in ways
that frustrate the supply of generic HIV/AIDS drugs, the only affordable option for most HIV
positive people in the Third World.
Until 2003, the prior Clinton and current Bush Administrations had consistently obstructed a
World Trade organization pact on the export of inexpensive generic drugs. Since September
2003, the United States requires that the requests for importation of generics be made in “good
faith” and “for no commercial gain” and that the generic drugs so exported be packaged and labeled
differently to prevent re-exportation. These conditions create bureaucratic obstacles to generic
HIV/AIDS drug importation.53

The body of evidence as a whole demonstrates that Bush Administration’s Global Health
Agenda violates International law:
SUMMARY
Access to accurate HIV/AIDS prevention information is a human right that the Bush
Administration is intentionally violating. Its coercive abstinence-only and gag-rule policies are
imposed on impoverished and politically and economically dependent countries of the world
with catastrophic and foreseeable injury to children in violation, the UN Convention on the
Rights of the Child. The policies also obstruct the purpose of Article 12 of the International
Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights.
The Commission finds that grave injuries and the risk of grave injuries confront the worlds’ people
who are subjected to the Bush Administration’s HIV/AIDS and family planning global health
policies. The injuries are preventable, racially discriminatory in their disproportionate impact on
people of color, religiously intolerant, and systemic. As a result, the Commission finds that the
Bush Administration’s HIV/AIDS and family planning policies constitute a crime against humanity.
HURRICANE KATRINA INDICTMENT
The Levees
Count 1: Knowing failure of the Bush Administration to adequately maintain and upgrade
the levees directly contributed to the foreseeable loss of life and suffering of many people
when Hurricane Katrina struck.
As to Count 1, the Commission finds that knowing failure of the Bush Administration to adequately
maintain and upgrade the levees directly contributed to the foreseeable loss of life and
suffering of many people when Hurricane Katrina struck.
The Federal Government is responsible for monitoring the design and construction of the levees
in the United States at every step. Since the late 1960’s, the federal government has been very
well aware of New Orleans vulnerability to flooding due to levee breaches. “[The New Orleans]
levees were never intended to protect against category four hurricanes such as Katrina according
to Corps of Engineer’s official, Lt. General Strock.
In addition, the 17th Street Canal Levee was built at 93% to 98% of the strength needed to meet a
category 3 hurricane and far below the 130% standard requirement for a category 3 hurricane. As
early as 2003, civil engineers were well aware that the levees could not handle a lingering category
3 storm.Since 2003, under the Bush Administration, the flow of federal dollars to deal with flood relief
issues in New Orleans fell to trickle due to the pressures on federal funding caused by the war in
Iraq.54
Foreknowledge of Hurricane Katrina
Count 2: Despite foreknowledge of Hurricane Katrina striking land as a greater than category
3 storm and the devastation that this would cause, the Bush Administration failed to
implement an emergency evacuation plan for people in the path of the storm and unable to
evacuate on their own.
As to Count 2, the Commission finds that despite foreknowledge of Hurricane Katrina striking
land as a greater than category 3 storm and the devastation that this would cause, the Bush Administration
failed to implement an emergency evacuation plan for people in the path of the
storm and unable to evacuate on their own.
President George Bush falsely claimed that no one could have predicted the Katrina disaster.
Prior to the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Center, FEMA ranked the potential of hurricane
caused damage to New Orleans as among the likeliest, most catastrophic disasters facing the
United States. Since 2002, Dr. Ivor van Heerdon, the director of Louisiana State University’s
Center for Public Health Impacts of Hurricanes led a multidisciplinary team looking at precisely
what would happen if a major storm hit New Orleans. Their research included how the city
would flood and how many people would ignore evacuation warnings. There predictions, analyses,
and summary of expected devastation were almost 100% accurate.
In 2003, Louisiana State oceanographer, Joseph Suhayda modeled the grave disaster that would
be caused by a lingering category 3 or a category 4 or 5 hurricane. He shared his findings with
emergency preparedness officials throughout Louisiana.
In 2004, FEMA conducted a hurricane simulation for New Orleans. In that simulation, a category
3 hurricane named Pam slammed into New Orleans with sustained winds of 120 mph. Water
from Lake Ponchartrain poured over the levees and the entire city was quickly under water.
FEMA drafted a comprehensive disaster response plan in response to the simulation. The plan
stated that there could be thousands of fatalities, floating coffins, and large quantities of hazardous
waste that would result in airborne and waterborne contamination. In addition, in 2004, New Orleans residents advocated to both the federal and local governments for the creation and implementation
of a comprehensive emergency evacuation plan. Yet no such plan was ever implemented.
The record of the Bush Administration’s failure to act is well established:
On August 25, 2005, category 1 Katrina hit Florida, killing 9 people. That same day the National
Hurricane Center indicated that Katrina is likely to become a dangerous storm in 3 days. President
Bush is in Crawford, Texas.
On August 26, Katrina became a category 2 hurricane and was forecasted to become a category 3
by August 26. On August 26, the Bush Administration announced a state of emergency for parts
of Louisiana not threatened by Katrina. On August 27, Katrina became a category 3 hurricane
and was predicted to become a category 4 within 24 hours. However, on August 27, Pres. Bush
was still in Crawford, Texas. The Gov. of Louisiana, Kathleen Blanco, contacted Pres. Bush and
requested federal assistance on August 27th. Pres. Bush’s, August 26 declaration of a state of
emergency omitted the Louisiana Parishes at risk that were identified by Gov. Blanco.
On August 28, the National Hurricane Center Director, Max Mayfield briefed Pres. Bush on hurricane
Katrina. Gov. On August 28, Blanco sends a second request to Pres. Bush for federal relief,
listing again the parishes at risk. On August 28, weather experts predicted that Katrina will
soon hit landfall as a category 5 hurricane. Katrina hit the Gulf as a high category 4 hurricane on
August 28. President remained in Crawford hailing the draft Iraqi constitution as an inspiring
success. There is no record of Bush ever declaring a state of emergency for areas that were put a
risk by Hurricane Katrina or that were identified by Gov. Blanco.
Despite several days of warnings of a monstrous hurricane heading for the Gulf that would devastate
New Orleans and the Gulf region causing large losses of life and human suffering and despite
the availability of a comprehensive federal disaster response draft plan in case of such a
predicted disaster scenario that would mitigate the loss of life and human suffering, the Bush
Administration did not initiate its disaster response plan prior to or during the duration of Katrina
and admitted as much.55
Failure to launch rescue operations

Count 3: The Bush Administration neither launched an immediate rescue operation nor
provided the emergency shelter, food and water needed to save peoples lives and prevent
needless suffering.
As to Count 3, the Commission finds that the Bush Administration neither launched an immediate
rescue operation nor provided the emergency shelter, food and water needed to save peoples
lives and prevent needless suffering.
On August 28, 2005, the National Weather Service sent an urgent weather message nationwide,
warning of devastating damage that it described comprehensively. Katrina hit New Orleans on
August 29. Electrical power in the Superdome where the city’s poor, disabled, and homeless
were crammed failed at 5am. Entire New Orleans neighborhoods were submerged in water. In
late afternoon, on August 29, a levee broke near St. Bernard-Orleans parish. President Bush was
playing golf. Five hours after Katrina hits FEMA dispatched 1000 employees to region, giving
them two days to arrive.
On September 12, 2005, the Congressional Research Service, in response to an inquiry from
Congressmen John Conyers (D. Mich.), determined that the Bush Administration had not taken
the steps needed to trigger Stafford Act emergency assistance and disaster assistance.56
Federal Authorities Block Emergency Relief
Count 4: Federal authorities block provision of emergency services, including rescue and
provision of food and water on the part of other levels of government and private sources
despite the obvious need for this kind of relief.
As to Count 4, the Commission finds that federal authorities block provision of emergency services,
including rescue and provision of food and water on the part of other levels of government
and private sources despite the obvious need for this kind of relief.
On August 29, the 17th Street Canal levee broke. However, FEMA instructs outside fire and rescue
departments not to enter disaster area and refuses to allow firefighters into New Orleans. On
August 31, the Department of Homeland Security blocked assistance from foreign countries.
The first 100 persons rescued from the flooding in New Orleans and delivered to the Houston
Astrodome were rescued by an 18 year old, not FEMA, who had commandeered an abandon bus.
Four days after Katrina it landfall, the Bush Administration requested assistance from the airline
industry to evacuate Katrina victims. As of September 1, the Bush Administration had not directed
the U.S military to immediately assist people without food or water in the city center.

The military prevented a caravan of nearly 100 buses from Houston, Texas carrying food and
water for people trapped in New Orleans to get the supplies to the Convention Center. The military
stopped caravan in sight of the Convention Center. The supplies never got to the Convention
Center. On September 3, FEMA blocked life saving aid to Jefferson Parish. On September 13, a
frustrated FEMA employee appeared on Nightline, speaking for himself, said, “right now as we
talk, unfortunately, Homeland Security is actually impeding…the rescue effort.”57
Federal Authorities Enforce Repressive Conditions
Count 5: Federal authorities enforced repressive conditions and eventually carried out an
evacuation that separated families, including small children from their parents, and left
many people not knowing where their loved ones were located and even if they had survived
the storms.
As to Count 5, the Commission finds that the federal authorities enforced repressive conditions
and eventually carried out an evacuation that separated families, including small children from
their parents, and left many people not knowing where their loved ones were located and even if
they had survived the storms.
A direct consequence of the federal government’s belated involvement in evacuations, were the
avoidable instances of family separation and missing persons.
The primary focus of early federal intervention in New Orleans was the protection of property at
the expense of rescuing people from the rapidly unfolding natural disaster caused by Katrina.
The federal government contracted with private security agencies that acted, with impunity, as
legitimate local law enforcement in ways that violated residents’ civil rights and that terrified
disaster victims and systematically thwarted their attempts to survive at risk of being shot. The
Bush Administration promulgated a “Zero Tolerance” order on September 1 that told local law
officials to move against anyone engaged in, looting and other crimes. Consequently, the police
went after desperately hunger people attempting to get food and water to survive.58
SUMMARY
The Bush Administration’s response to the Katrina natural disaster violated and obstructed the
purpose of international law. The persons most injured by the Bush Administration’s response to
the Katrina natural disaster were the poor, people of color, and especially people of African de-scent who were already living under circumstances of institutional racism that the Bush Administration’s
failed response profoundly exacerbated.
The foreseeable consequences of the Bush Administration’s Katrina response violated the legal
principles embodied in the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination.
In addition the failures of the Bush Administration obstructed the efforts of the International
Covenant on Economic, Social, and Political Rights because of its deliberate indifference
to provide medical services, food, and shelter to the residents of the Gulf in a manner that
was within its capacity to provide and that would have saved lives and prevented enormous suffering.
Further this record is clear. The Bush Administration demonstrated a gross and wanton indifference
to human life that caused thousands of Gulf coast residents to die and suffer needlessly. The
suffering continues, systemically causing continuous grievous injuries due to displacement and
related issues. Accordingly, the Bush Administration has committed crimes against humanity.

The International Commission of Inquiry on
Crimes Against Humanity
Committed by the Bush Administration of the United
States
hen the possibility of far-reaching war crimes and crimes against humanity exists, people
of conscience have a solemn responsibility to inquire into the nature and scope of these
acts and to determine if they do in fact rise to the level of war crimes and crimes against humanity.
That is the mission of the International Commission of Inquiry on Crimes Against Humanity.
The final session will be held January 20-22 in New York City. This tribunal will, with care and
rigor, present evidence and assess whether George W. Bush and his administration have committed
crimes against humanity. Well-established international law will be referenced where applicable,
but the tribunal will not be limited by the scope of existing international law.
he tribunal will deliberate on four categories of indictable crimes: 1) Wars of Aggression,
with particular reference to the invasions and occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan. 2) Torture
and Indefinite Detention, with particular reference to the abandonment of international standards
concerning the treatment of prisoners of war and the use of torture. 3) Destruction of the
Global Environment, with particular reference to systematic policies contributing to the catastrophic
effects of global warming. 4) Attacks on Global Public Health and Reproductive Rights,
with particular reference to the genocidal effects of forcing international agencies to promote
“abstinence only” in the midst of a global AIDS epidemic.
he Commission’s jury of conscience will be composed of internationally respected jurists
and legal scholars, prominent voices of conscience, and experts and monitors in relevant
fields. The tribunal’s legitimacy is derived from its integrity, its rigor in the presentation of evidence,
and the stature of its participants. Representatives of the Bush administration will be invited
to present a defense.
rior to the meeting of the Commission, teams with sufficient expertise will prepare preliminary
indictments in each of the four areas, setting forth the scope of the Bush administration’s
actions and how they contravene legal and moral norms for international behavior. At the
meeting of the Commission, there will be four prosecution teams that organize the presentation
of the evidence. This evidence will be documents as well as eyewitness testimony by victims and
observers of the crimes alleged. The formal proceedings will be held in a public venue and all
attempts will be made to publicize and broadcast its deliberations internationally. The Commission’s
jury of conscience will come to verdicts and its findings will be published.
he holding of this tribunal will frame and fuel a discussion that is urgently needed in the
United States: Is the administration of George W. Bush guilty of war crimes and crimes
against humanity? The Commission will conduct its work with a deep sense of responsibility to
the people of the world.
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The Commission is sponsored by the Not In Our Name statement of conscience, joined by the
following individuals and organizations:
James Abourezk, former United States Senator
As'ad AbuKhalil, professor of politics & public administration, California State University-Stanislaus
Dirk Adriaensens, BRussells Tribunal executive committee and coordinator SOS Iraq
After Downing Street
Dr. Nadje Al-Ali, social anthropologist at the Univ. of Exeter, founding member of Act Together: Women's Action
on Iraq & and member Women in Black UK
Anthony Alessandrini, organizer with the World Tribunal on Iraq and New York University Students for Justice in
Palestine
Edward Asner
Michael Avery, president of the National Lawyers Guild and professor, Suffolk Law School
Russell Banks, novelist
The Rev. Luis Barrios, Ph.D., associate professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice & Anglican Priest
Amy Bartholomew, professor of law at Carleton University
Greg Bates, Common Courage Press
Tony Benn, former chairman of the British Labour Party
Phyllis Bennis, Institute for Policy Studies
Michael S. Berg, grieving father of Nick Berg killed in Iraq May 7, 2004, and one man for Peace
Ayse Berktay, from the organizing team of the World Tribunal on Iraq
William Blum, author of Killing Hope: US Military and CIA Interventions Since World War II and Rogue State: A
Guide to the World’s Only Superpower
Francis Boyle, author of Destroying World Order and professor at the University of Illinois College of Law
Jean Bricmont, BRussells Tribunal executive committee
Center for Constitutional Rights
Marjorie Cohn, professor at Thomas Jefferson School of Law and executive vice president of the National Lawyers
Guild
Lieven De Cauter, BRussells Tribunal executive committee
Patrick Deboosere, BRussells Tribunal executive committee
Eve Ensler, playwright
Peter Erlinder, William Mitchell College of Law and lead defense counsel, United Nations Criminal Tribunal for
Rwanda, Arusha, Tanzania
Larry Everest, author of Oil, Power & Empire: Iraq and the U.S. Global Agenda and Behind the Poison Cloud: Union
Carbide’s Bhopal Massacre
Richard Falk, professor emeritus of International Law, Princeton, and Visiting Professor in Global and International
Studies, UC-Santa Barbara
Thomas M. Fasy, MD, Mount Sinai School of Medicine, New York City
Lawrence Ferlinghetti, member, American Academy of Arts & Letters and founder & editor in chief, City Lights
Books, San Francisco
The Rev. Dr. James E. Fitzgerald, minister for mission and social justice, The Riverside Church
Ted Glick, former coordinator, Independent Progressive Politics Network
Dr. Elaine C. Hagopian, former president of Association of Arab-American University Graduates (AAUG) and primary
founder of the Trans-Arab Research Institute (TARI)
Sam Hamill. director, Poets Against War
International Movement for a Just World (JUST), Malaysia
Abdeen Jabara, past president, American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee
Dahr Jamail, U.S. independent journalist who has reported extensively from Iraq since the invasion
C. Clark Kissinger, contributing writer for Revolution and initiator of the Not In Our Name statement of conscience
The Reverend Doctor Earl Kooperkamp, Rector, St. Mary's Episcopal Church, West Harlem, New York
Joel Kovel, editor-in-chief, Capitalism Nature Socialism: A Quarterly Journal of Socialist Ecology, and author of
The Enemy of Nature
Jesse Lemisch, professor of history emeritus, John Jay College of Criminal Justice
Rabbi Michael Lerner, editor of Tikkun magazine and author of The Left Hand of God: Taking Back America from
the Religious Right
37
Rev. Davidson Loehr, Ph.D., First Unitarian Universalist Church of Austin, Texas National Lawyers Guild
National Lawyers Guild, San Francisco Bay Area Chapter
Rev. Davidson Loehr, Ph.D., First Unitarian Universalist Church of Austin, Texas
Robert Meeropol, Executive Director, Rosenberg Fund for Children
New Jersey Civil Rights Defense Committee
New Jersey Workers Democracy Network
National Lawyers Guild
National Lawyers Guild, San Francisco Bay Area Chapter
Not In Our Name Project
Barbara Olshansky, deputy legal director of the Center for Constitutional Rights and author of Secret Trials and
Executions
James Petras, professor emeritus of sociology at Binghamton University, New York
Jeremy Pikser, screenwriter
Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional Rights and author with Ellen Ray of Guantanamo: What
the World Should Know
Stephen F. Rohde, civil liberties lawyer and co-founder of Interfaith Communities United for Justice and Peace
Marc Sapir, MD, MPH, co-convener of the UC Berkeley Teach In on Torture and executive director of Retro Poll
Sister Annette M. Sinagra, OP
Peter Singer, Professor of Bioethics, Princeton University
State of Nature on-line magazine
U.S. Tour of Duty
Inge Van de Merlen, BRussells Tribunal executive committee
Gore Vidal
Anne Weills, civil rights attorney in Oakland, National Lawyers Guild
Leonard Weinglass, criminal defense attorney
Naomi Weisstein, professor emeritus of Neuroscience, State University of NY at Buffalo
Howard Zinn, historian
[institutions for identification only]
Web site: http://www.bushcommission.org E-mail: commission@nion.us
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Standards of Judgment for the International Commission of
Inquiry on Crimes Against Humanity Committed by the
Bush Administration of the United States
When
© RKMBs