RKMBs Forums .::Robegories::. Comic Books The Subs: Part of Legion Academy or Independent Organization?

If the Subs are reintroduced into the postboot (yeah, I know they've been seen, but nothing's been done with them) would you prefer it to be as an independent organization helping out the Legion on occasion (ala preboot Subs I) or as a part of the Legion Academy (ala preboot Subs II), sort of the upper-class, almost ready for the Legion part of the Academy?

I don't want to influence the poll too much, but I wanted to say that I think it makes sense, from a political point of view, with the Legion as paramilitary/ para-law enforcement aid for the United Planets, to have a second training squad in the works. Kinda reminds me of the relationship Beta and Gamma Flight had to Alpha Flight in 80's and early 90's Marvel. I always thought it was a cool concept.

It does make a certain amount of sense, of course, Reserve members of the Legion might fulfill the back-up requirement.

I kinda like the idea of a bunch of rejects not being able to take no for an answer and forming their own Super club, even though it's probably not the brightest thing to do (after all, they didn't get in for a reason).

I for one agree with Kat about liking the idea that they are rejects who can't take no for an answer. It really all depends though on whether they're actually really any good or not. If they are actually heroes in training then it does make sense for them to be part of the acadamy. if on the other hand they're going to be the light relief to the more serious escapades of the Legion then they should be like they originally were, a group of rejects who set up their own club.

Which of course then begs the question, what would their reboot selves actually be like?

I'd like to see the Subs as just that...Subs that step into the Legion when needed.

Kinda like AAA clubs in Baseball. You call up whose needed, then they stay or go back as the situation dictates.

An organization with its own clubhouse for the "rejects" never made a lot of sense to me. Too much of a vibe of self-pity was there, underneath being feisty. (Though both have a lot of resonance for the adolescent audience the Legion books once had. Rejection is a constant of teenage life.)

First string among those in training or getting their skills polished, though? That makes eminent sense. So does Dev's triple-A analogy.

If you look too hard at the historical Legion distinctions, many of them fall apart: unique powers for the team, unique powers as against Earth residents, non-marriage (for a long time), self-control, no outside assistance (exhibit A about flouting that was Wildfire). And, for that matter, the Subs. The reasoning for all of these bars and restrictions was always shaky ... but, again, who said that teenagers were reasonable?

(The one simply imposed by adult bureaucrats, the 25-member limit set by tax laws {gaaaak} rather than overtaxed current-day pencillers, always was silly and had no reasoning, it was just "the U.P. law.")

The only "subs" configuration that made much sense was the second one in the preboot, of Rokk, Lydda, Chuck, Myg, the comet chick ... but we didn't see enough of them after a well-done story formed their group.

I'd kinda like to see them start as Legion rejects. However I DON"T want them to be laughingstocks (as the Subs were sometimes written as). They should be a (mostly) serious team with as much guts as the Legion, even though their powers/skills may fall short. And perhaps they will later become the "B team" after proving themselves the hard way.

It would make sense to have the Subs as part of the acedamy for those that are almost ready for membership. The original premise that the Subs powers were not good enough didn't even hold up during their first story. I miss that bit of goofy legion history & hope they find a place for them in this updated version.

The problem with the Subs being part of the Legion Academy is that it implies that someday they must graduate and join the regular Legion.

Why is this a problem? Well, if you have a constant turnover of Subs becoming Legionnaires, then you have to integrate them more often into the stories (instead of being only occasional guest stars), then you have to constantly introduce new Subs to make the organization viable.

The Subs, in the preboot, were never part of the Legion Academy, though. They were their own branch of the Legion Reserve (the Academy was another branch). The premise of the Subs was that their powers simply weren't good enough for the Legion. I can accept that, even though the Legion's standards for worthy powers were often arbitrary.

As Grey wisely points out above, if you examine any of the Legion's distinctions carefully, they fall apart. But I'd go further and say this is true in life for any rule or set of policies. That's why the U.S. Constitution has been amended 20-odd times. There are always exceptions. There are always new situations that the original set-up didn't cover.

What never made sense to me, though, was that the Legionnaires readily accepted the Subs as occasional stand-ins. Night Girl's power still has a significant handicap, whether she's a regular Legionnaire or not. I know the Legion wanted to reward the Subs for their loyalty, but, tactically speaking, calling them to help out doesn't make a lot of sense.

I was over at the dc boards and came for a look and its all polls and pictures and it could do a persons head in lol. Anyway on topic I like the subs and think they should be there as a back up team or individuals if they have a requiered talent. I couldn't acess the poll so I don't know what everybody else thinks.

Sorry to get all off topic on everybody but im just bumming around exploring and it seems we can go around deleting each others replies. Is that right? it just seems a weird feature is all. :)

{HWW} "The problem with the Subs being part of the Legion Academy is that it implies that someday they must graduate and join the regular Legion."

Not necessarily: Nightwind, Lamprey, Laurel Kent, and Grev Mallor never did so. (On-screen in the pre-boot, anyway. But the off-screen "Gap" and its unique and arbitrary twists is another matter.)

What riles the part of me that's still back on the third-grade playground choosing sides for dodgeball, in my mind, is any notion of the Ins vs. the Outs persisting into that future century. Part of my hope for the future is that sentients will eventually rise above that.

The "out" Subs brought that aspect of kids' life into the stories ... and, again, not to any real surprise, given the one-time predominant Legion reading audience.

"What never made sense to me, though, was that the Legionnaires readily accepted the Subs as occasional stand-ins."

Why not? The handicaps weren't true for Polar Boy. Even Night Girl could be a utility player, especially working with Shadow Lass (though I don't recall this being described as ever happening). And when the five-alarm Great Darkness emergency came along, it was All Exotic Powers On Deck, anyway.

{Polar Boy} "... it seems we can go around deleting each other's replies. Is that right?"

Not really. Only the four moderators, and owner Rob Kamphausen, can delete posts. (And a lot of us hope they won't!) They also can edit your posts. (Ditto, short of emergencies genuinely disrupting discussion.)

You can edit your own posts. You can't delete your own posts, though it's possible to edit one down to display no text, if you feel you must.

I'd like to see the Subs again, but not in connection with any Legion Academy- or with any existing organization at all.

I'd like to see the 'sub' refer (metaphorically) to subterranean, rather than substitute. For a year or two, I'd like to see the Subs operate 'under the radar'-- of the SPs, the Legion, the UP.

Maybe they'd even be *masked* :) . With secret identities. And a hidden HQ.

Eventually, the Legion (through Lyle?) would discover them and maybe even decide to let them keep on operating, maintaining their secrecy and distance until some mega-crisis causes the two groups to meet for the first time...

TN

I always thought the Subs should be like a minor league baseball team for the LSH. The Alpha/Beta/Gamma Flight comparison is good. The X-Men are or were the same way with Generation X, X-Force and the X-Men. But Mystery Lad brings up an interesting concept as well.

But for the most part, Polar Boy and Color Kid more than qualify for membership.