RKMBs Forums .::Robegories::. Comic Books "Fractured Legion Fandom"

Sanity, could you copy that message over here? I can't access the DC boards at all.

Steve Lightle posted a message there yesterday that said the following:

"Let's pull together, before we lose our voice.

I'm concerned that squabbling and unfortunate cercumstance could be doing a number on us. Let's not let it happen, okay?"

Which I take to be a plea to not let recent events wreck the online LSH fan community.

Response seems to be mixed.

Legion fandom is like a family to me ... At least in some respects.

Families have moments of great unity, but they also have their rough patches. A family, being composed of individuals, will never agree on all things. That is something we all know and accept.

What is unfortunate is that sometimes the differences SEEM to become so monumental that families can fragment.

When I was kid, my family enjoyed occasionally gathering together in one place for pot luck dinners. Distant cousins, aunts, grannies, brothers and so forth, would gather together and reaffirm their familial ties. A good time was usually had by all. The thing is, you see little signs of stress in all relationships. You might notice that aunt Trudy (all fictitious names, by the way) is a little miffed at uncle Carl, because she thinks he's had too many clod brews. Maybe Cousin Margie doesn't like your mom's potato salad recipe ... silly stuff, like that. Then, maybe so and so's brother in law seriously crosses the line and makes a grab at your daughter ... Somebody throws a punch ...

Well, anyway ...

When I was a kid, I read Adventure comics starring Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes. Loved it! I pretended to be a Legionnaire (Brainiac 5, as I recall) while playing with my friends. Years later, I discovered that although the Legion had stopped appearing in Adventure Comics, they had returned in the back of Superboy (I had missed their appearances in Action Comics), and Cary Bates and Dave Cockrum were doing some really interesting things with the characters.

It wasn't until years later, after I had actually grown up and taken a job drawing the Legion comic, that I discovered Legion fandom. I knew that it had existed, of course, because I had seen evidence of it in official DC publications ... but I wasn't involved until some folks from the Legion APA KLORDNY contacted me. They wrote to me years after I had stopped doing regular work on the Legion, and informed me that they had taken a poll of their membership and voted me their favorite Legion artist. I was surprised to have been fondly remembered, and decided to keep in contact with them. I joined KLORDNY, and for a couple of years, contributed to the APA. I met some of the members, both through their letters and occasionally in person. Eventually, my life became complicated enough that I felt I couldn't continue to contribute to the APA, and I allowed my membership to lapse. Legion fandom was still out there, but I just wasn't keeping as close of tabs on it ... until, many years later, I was contacted through my E-mail account. Apparently Legion fandom was active on-line, and I was (Deja Vu!) informed that the guys and gals over at LegionPics had just voted me their favorite Legion artist. I joined their Yahoo!group, thinking that I'd probably only drop in for a visit, and here I am, three or four years later, still an active member of LegionPics.

I was aware that there were Legion message boards out there, but I figured that I got my Legion "fix" on the Yahoo!group, so I didn't seek them out for years. Finally, someone peaked my curiosity with something I couldn't resist. A post at LegionPics informed me that fans at the DC Message Boards were voting on their favorite Legion artist. I was told that it was a tight race between a couple of guys ... and I was one of those guys! By the time I decided to check out the DC Boards, I had won the poll! How could I resist??? I started posting a few comments, and I met a few new people, and generally enjoyed the company of other Legion fans.

Then Warner changed the DC Message Boards, and all people seemed to want to do was complain about the inadequacies of the new board. That got tiresome fast. To make things even worse, it seemed that the majority of posters didn't make the switch to DC's new boards. Dozens of people had fallen through the cracks, been lost, or frustrated, and just never transferred to the new official DC Message Boards. Thankfully, I had not been forgotten, and had received an invitation to an alternative message board. Without giving up on the official DC Boards, I decided to try to post to this other board too. Being active on two message boards and a few e-mail groups is time consuming, and the real world can be very demanding at times. Something was going to have to give.

Whatever stresses I had were entirely unrelated to the stresses exerting themselves on the message boards. One board collapsed in on itself like a black hole, despite what I assume, were the good intentions of its owner and the moderators. Maybe that board can again become a vital place for Legion fans to gather, but it may be an uphill battle.

So, what's going to become of Legion fandom? No doubt it will survive regardless how many challenges might come along. At the moment, though, many of the people that I think of as friends, have been scattered to the wind. I don't even know where to find some of them. I've recently received invitations to join two other Legion message boards, both of which seem to want to provide the perfect watering hole for Legion fans to gather around. I may politely drop by each of them, but I know I can't be everywhere at once. It just isn't practical or possible.

My professional ties have made it possible for me to meet Legion creators like Cary Bates, Paul Levitz, Curt Swan, and others, but it was through my activity in Legion fandom that I have met Dave Cockrum, Jeff Moy, Barry Kitson, and others. I've met dozens of great Legion readers who have enriched my life with their opinions, observations, encouragement and general positive energy. I'll continue to reach out to them through LegionPics, ArtPost (my own art group), and various message boards. I'll also encourage them not to allow passing circumstance, or the occasional disruption, to fragment Legion fandom.

Sometimes families don't see nearly enough of each other.

A short time ago a friend of many of us passed away. Dannell Lites had attended several comic book and science fiction conventions where I had been a guest. I signed autographs for her and drew her occasional sketches long before I recognized her from her involvement with on-line fandom. She was active in Legion fandom, writing her own fiction and spreading her enthusiasm through memorable posts that just dripped with the sweetness of her personality. My wife and I got together with Danelle a few times, outside of the environment of fandom, and I'm glad that we did. Still, I wish we had stayed in better contact. When Danelle couldn't be reached by phone or e-mail we started worrying about her. We would ask mutual friends about her, occasionally getting a bit of information here or there. Finally, one day a friend whom Danelle occasionally worked for, informed us that Dannell had passed away. Apparently she was alone at the time, and the authorities failed to contact a next of kin, or for that matter, any of us whose phone numbers were in her rolodex. Danelle Lites was buried in an unmarked grave, and those who now mourn her passing didn't even know about it until months later.

If it seems that I'm worrying about my friends in Legion fandom just a little too much, or that I'm going on about the sky possibly falling, have patience. Just tolerate my warnings, or take them to heart if you think they merit your concern. Just remember, we've seen how bad things can get.

Now ... why don't you get back to the fun for awhile!

Long Live Legion Fandom!

Steve Lightle


Subscribe to ArtPost - send an E-mail addressed to: ArtPost-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Check out these LEGION Interviews ...
http://www.lightninglad.com/articles/lightle.htm
http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=1667

Thank you Jar for your summary and Steve for your detailed comments.

Most of us were terribly saddened to see the implosion of the Legion HQ Board. I was surprised it resulted in the departure of so many of the Legion fans who had been posting here, especially after Dev-em and Dave went to no little effort to restore the board to a useable condition - and other posters remained to carry on messaging.

I don't know that Legion fandom is fracturing so much as moving on to other locations. The DC Boards are beyond my reach so I'm unaware if there's a lot of squabbling there or not.

"Rob's Damn Board" is a good board, bringing together many people with considerable knowledge of comics and a good sense of humor. If many Legion fans aren't comfortable here, so be it - and certainly we all suffer from time constraints which prevent us from supporting multiple boards. As long as people want to discuss Legion here, I'll participate. However, I enjoy soliloquies from Shakespeare, not from Fat Cramer.

Perhaps, given our diminished numbers, we should consider folding this Legion HQ board back into the Comics Board. Not necessarily all the pages - they already have Llance pictures (JUST KIDDING!!! SHEEESH!!) - but whatever Legion topics come up, post them over there. What ate up the space, as far as I can tell, was all the game threads - and there don't seem to be enough people here now to sustain a lot of activity.

As Douglas Adams would have said, you may now start throwing the chairs about.

I understand what Steve is saying about the difficulty of posting on multiple boards. I still post on the "official" boards, and poke my nose here frequently, but my posting on the Jolly Rodger board is almost nil, not because there's anything wrong with it, but because I just don't have the time. I wish there were ONE board that everyone went to, but I'm not sure if that will ever happen. All I know to do is flap my yap whenever & whereever I can.

DM, I know how you feel, but I don't believe there will ever be one board just because there will always be folks unsatisfied with a board's setup or approach. The defection away from the DC board and implosion here shows that.

Like Steve, I feel the time crunch of posting on multiple boards. I have plenty of interests besides the LSH, so spending a lot of time on a board geared solely towards the Legion isn't something I see myself doing. I'll probably stick around here, and drop in on the DC and Newsarama boards now and again.

FC, you may be right that this board should get folded back into the comics board. But I think it may be a bit early to say for sure. Most boards go through lulls every so often, only to pick up again later on.

I think it would be a shame if LHQ folded back into the comics section.

This board was won because we showed Rob that we DID have enough posters to easily sustain our own board.

In fact, for a time this board was THE busiest board here before what happened.

Even though I would hate to see it go, I don't think it will ever be the same as before what happened. It "feels" different now. Completely different.

That said, I'll be around as long as it DOES last...

Nice to know though, that creators like Steve actually care that MUCH though.

I think the dissolution of this board is both inevitable and rational. The justification for its existence no longer holds. After the dissolution of the old DCMBs, a flood of many of the most prolific posters from the Legion boards came here, and tried to maintain the same sort of activity they were engaged in there. The vast majority of those people have now left, or at least taken the bulk of their posting elsewhere.

Steve himself called this place a "failed experiment". I think that's an accurate description.

Is it official that this board is going?

Nothing official-- yet...

So does that mean that something is in the works?

Folding this board back into the Comics board was just a comment I made (another bloody rumor! now you know where they come from) when there didn't seem to be much activity here in terms of new topics. I don't know what maintaining an extra board entails for RK ... if we're not going to dominate board space, we could be accommodated within the "mother board". I think most of us are also over on the Comics (or other) boards anyways....

However, we Legion fans do seem to have a tendency to move in and chatter on incessantly about arcane trivia, imaginary characters, one another and even the Legion book itself, so I guess we're still operating here. And working towards full internet domination. We won't stop until there's an Elvabird in Every Pot and a Legion Book in Every Home!

Don't know if/what the mods themselves have been discussing.

If Legion fandom is fracturing, it could be because it's unclear what fans want on any given board.

I posted a new topic earlier, called "Off-the-Cuff Review of LEGION # 21." Eight hours later, there has not been a single response. I admit I'm mystified by this. Are people just not interested in discussing the current issues, anymore? Has everyone talked it all out on the other topic pertaining to # 21? Do people favor short, one- or two-sentence commentary, rather than in-depth views? Do my opinions turn people off, or are they just not interesting to read?

One of the things I loved doing on the old DCMB was discussing and even debating topics concerning current LEGION issues. Sometimes, topics boiled down nothing more than "This is the way I feel ..." "Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but this is what I think ..." Other times, some serious debating was going on.

Somewhere along the way, that got lost and the topics became silly and playful. That's okay: Some people showcased their creativity, and turned the LMB into an fun, off-the-wall place. I liked that, but I also liked the serious discussions, too.

Greybird got in trouble a lot for "ruffling feathers." But more often than not, I think he was just stating his opinion. I understood where he was coming from, though we disagreed on the issue of tact: Sometimes, you just have to say what you have to say. If someone takes offense to it, so be it. Someone is always going to take offense to something.

Unfortunately, Grey became the target of irrational attacks by another poster (and someone I had otherwise respected for bringing his own brand of lunacy and in-depth analysis to the board). In the aftermath of that meltdown, everyone was bending over backwards to be nice. We received a lot of praise for how friendly the LMB was, but, at the same time we lost some of the edge, some of the passion of what it means to be a Legion fan.

Then, Rob's Damn Board came along and it became a free-for-all. People were cussing, posting irrelevant topics, and just having a ball. Then we learned there was a cost for this, as well: the Nature Boyz took it upon themselves to initiate us into the world of thread spamming. Some poor judgment was made by both sides of the ensuing conflict, and, as a result, many long-time LMBers left, effectively gutting this board.

Now, there are concerns about the low number of posts and whether or not there are enough posters to sustain Legion HQ. I think it all boils down to the following question: Just what do you want out this board, or any Legion forum?

For me, I want both serious discussions and topics of fun. I want in-depth analysis and people stating their opinions. I want a certain degree of civility, but I think people also have to be a little thick-skinned when someone challenges their viewpoint or favorite character. Most of all, I want people to care enough about the Legion to have something meaningful to say.

I feel Steve Lightle's pain, and I, too, am saddened by the disintegration of a once burgeoning fan community. In some ways, I think such things can't last for long -- the nature of cyberspace makes joining and leaving any given community too easy when things get tough. But, in other ways, I think the Legion and Legion fandom is worth fighting for. I would hate to see this board die from apathy.

HWW, I agree that there doesn't seem to be a lot of discussion of current issues - and I certainly appreciate the more serious threads.

As for response to your off-the-cuff-review, it was a weekend, and a holiday weekend for U.S. posters - the whole net seemed pretty quiet to me. (I think a lot of people post from work - there seems to be a jump in board activity Monday around coffee-break time - not just the comics boards either.) (I must say I was waiting to see if you'd add comments after reading the others' reactions.)

Maybe people find it hard to discuss a story that might just be a dream or hoax. Even Calling the Roll hasn't been getting much response lately, here or elsewhere.

You make a good point about the transience of cyber communities. In the real world, we're stuck with each other to a great extent - you don't just dump your job, certainly not your family and it's not that easy for most of us to change where we live. There was a line in The Shipping News (great book, lousy movie): we were a community, not because we wanted to be, but because we had to be. (It's the story of a small, isolated village in Newfoundland - you live there, you're stuck there.)

Anyways, hope you choose to be stuck here.

Thanks, Fat Cramer. I'm not going anywhere just yet.

Well, it's now Tuesday and so far yours is the only response to my thread (which I appreciate, by the way). It's not that big of a deal, I suppose. I'm not looking for ego gratification. (Well, maybe I am. Just a little.) But, it's nice to know people care enough about the Legion to say, "Yes, we agree with you!" or "No! We think you're wrong!"

I hadn't thought that others might be waiting for me to add comments after reading other posts. I'll consider that in the future.

rob is closing this board, eh?!

figures -- he's sucha frickin jerk!

...

...wait a tick...



them rumors get around, eh?

so. anywho. izzis board closing? huh. thats a frickin great question. but it aint yours for me.

its mine for you.

c'mon over here. sit down. let robbie tell ya a story.

once upon a time, i didn't have a legion forum. i was perfectly happy with my non-legion-forum-including board, frolicking (frolicking!) from board to board without a care or a worry.

then, i saw a buncha people in need of a new home. they weren't necessarily my friends -- in fact, many of whom had uttered quite an unpleasant word about me in the past, allbeit in a ridiculously informal and unknowing manner. buuuut, i saw the situation they were in, and figured i could help out as best as i could.


(y'gotta make that *ping* noise as the halo pops in. please.)

so, lots n'lots o'new people were invited here, to these boards. then more people. then more people. they created, oh, 6... maybe 7 million posts in the comic book forum, most of which weren't comic related (not that i really care, mind you. not here.).

then, came the requests. the moderator add-ons. the headlined topics. the polls. the 50 trillion legion avatars to edit and upload. finally, and most importantly, the additional, personal forum, just for them.

i think i followed thru purdy nicely on my end.

at that point, we hadda buncha crazy yet happy legion fans doing and saying whutever the heck they wanted in a forum completely free and random, just like they asked for.

then, in the span of just a few hours, when i was out doing my "real world" thing, many of these happy people realized exactly what "free and random" means.

see, as a moderator for half a decade now, i'll letcha in on a lil secret: seems almost no one wants freedom of speech. what people want is freedom of their speech. its a distinct and clear difference, but not one many will accept or admit.

anyway, because of this horrible, heinous, monstrous, absurd, and other-bad-words "attack," lotsa people got pissed and/or fed up, and left, never to return.

i even awoke the next morning with the pleasure of receiving quite a few nasty emails, and, just for kicks, some personal attacks on other message boards because of my awful actions. ( )

just makes a guy all warm n'tingly inside.

...

now, i aint perfect. in fact, im far from it (just ask my folks!). im putrid, short, and justa tad fugly. and, as of 10:30 this evening, i've been drinking! takin it a step further, its a safe bet to assume i aint even that nice.

but in this lil case here, i'm profoundly confused.

everything .... everything that y'all legion... ers. ... legion... people ... asked for, i gotcha. yer own place. unlimited text. uncensored conversation. a buddy list. private messages. yer own custom avatars. yer own moderators. everything.

y'asked, y'got.

and, lemme just add here, with a sad, puppy dawg face, this here thing yer readin and/or typin on aint free. i don't get paid because you join these boards. i don't win prizes. i was never on "the price is right," i did not play "plinko," and i did not walk off the showcase showdown with one o'them big novelty checks.

i'm not even a legion poster!

so, outta this whole ordeal, i got nuthin.

in fact, if you wanna take this a step further, i LOSE stuff. i gotta shell out the money for this message board program. i gotta pay for the domain name it sits on. i gotta pay for the server its hosted on. i gotta pay for the bandwith (web traffic) y'all make at any given time.

and before y'all go gettin "anti-rob" agin', lemme just point out, i dont mind any of that, at all! its my choice to do it, and i chose to do it. most of y'all are nice people, so it works out just dandy for me. in fact, i kinda like havin my own lil cyber village. robtopia is a peaceful, happy town.

all that said, i hope y'might understand why i might see all this as a lil bit bothering. i handed everything over then had my hand stepped on, fingernails pulled, each individual finger bent backwards, one at a time, then fed to a dog.

then the dog took the hand to a cliff and dropped it over the edge.

then the hand landed on jagged glass.

then the glass was revealed to be explosive glass, and my hand blew up.

thats a sore hand.

but, gosh darnit, its a welcoming hand.

and, even after all the crap and nonsense and over-reacting (you read it, i typed it), its still a welcoming hand.

i left the board here. i helped the clean up process. i helped the rebuilding. i did my best to re-invite some back and calm the waters and make those who remained as comfy as possible.

and i'll keep doing that as long as there's a reason to.

so, once more, izzis board closing?

much like smokey says about forrest fires, only you can prevent the closing of this board.

i have no reason to close an active board. i have no reason to shut down a community. i never have, and i never will.

if you guys want this board around, well then you better damn well act like it, soldiers! like i've said time and time again, i gave ya this place. the forum is a present just for you guys.

its your board.

prove it.

Hey Robbie!

I know some unkind comments have been made about you in re: LHQ, but for what it's worth, I disagree with them all.

And you're NOT fugly!

Y'know, y'might y'want y'to y'lay y'off y'the y'y's y'for y'just y'one y'freakin' y'second y'Kaufamphsen! Y'givin y'me y'a y'headache!!!

Well, fine - does this mean we ARE going to get the liquor license?

Maybe Rob will feel better after NatureCon. Then again....

Rob,

We appreciate your generosity in opening this board. However, as I said in defense of it on the DCMBs when it opened, I feel no particular loyalty to any message board if it does not provide the environment or services I desire, especially if there are other places that do.

People left the new DCMBs because they became lame. People have left this place because it because it became even lamer. If it ain't fun, we ain't gonna stay. It's that simple.

If I may take it upon myself to speak on behalf of the Legion community, there was obviously a misunderstanding between you and us. You misunderstood what we wanted; we misunderstood what you were offering. We're sorry.

I honestly think that you have a skewered notion of what freedom of speech consists in or requires. There is no freedom without respect, and that's what we did not meet with here in "robtopia". I am not saying that you did not respect us, it is certain other members of this "community" that are at fault.

I really don't know how these things work, but if keeping this board open is costing you money, I would suggest that you close it.

And in keeping with the spirit of the boards:

Speaking of the Post Crisis DCMB I noticed Jeph Loeb finally posted on the
Bat-boards for the first time.

Three times to get one message across.

quote:

---

jephloeb3
Posted: 2003-07-10 19:43:23.0
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Loeb does respect continuity.

The bandaged man at the end of issue #2 has bandages on his head.

To the Batpoles!

Loeb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JephLoeb3


jephloeb3
Posted: 2003-07-10 19:44:33.0
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Loeb does respect continuity.

The bandaged woman at the end of issue #609 has bandages on her head.

To the Batpoles!

Loeb


jephloeb3
Posted: 2003-07-10 19:48:23.0
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Loeb DOES respect continuity.

The bandaged figure at the end of issue Batman #609, the second chapter of Hush has bandages on his/her head.

To the Batpoles!

Loeb

---

The new DCMBs, the great equalizer. :lol:

I find it amusing that you would call yourself "The Calamity King" in your custom title and yet post a message like this:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester:
Rob,

We appreciate your generosity in opening this board. However, as I said in defense of it on the DCMBs when it opened, I feel no particular loyalty to any message board if it does not provide the environment or services I desire, especially if there are other places that do.

People left the new DCMBs because they became lame. People have left this place because it because it became even lamer. If it ain't fun, we ain't gonna stay. It's that simple.

If I may take it upon myself to speak on behalf of the Legion community, there was obviously a misunderstanding between you and us. You misunderstood what we wanted; we misunderstood what you were offering. We're sorry.

I honestly think that you have a skewered notion of what freedom of speech consists in or requires. There is no freedom without respect, and that's what we did not meet with here in "robtopia". I am not saying that you did not respect us, it is certain other members of this "community" that are at fault.

I really don't know how these things work, but if keeping this board open is costing you money, I would suggest that you close it.

---

A spamming, or calamity, if you will, that lasted only a few hours caused a great exodus from this forum. When the comic forum endured a couple of weeks worth of Legion "spamming" of topics having little or nothing to do with comics and many done dileberately as an attempt to get this forum, no one got angry and left the board over that. We just went with it and kept going on as usual.

I find those who left over those few hours to be very selfish. Those who have stayed, though they have voiced their dislike at the event, are the ones who aren't elitists in nature. They are the ones who visit the entire board and understand that their freedom to say and do whatever they want here comes at a price (a very small price at that). I think that this board can continue and grow. People just need to realize that it'll no longer be a "member's only" clubhouse.

And, Bobo, you need to drink more often.

As I see it, the problem is that "Rob's Damn Board" is a true anarchy. Anarchy sounds kewl until a band of rowdys show up, and then you see the need for a "cop". That incident made it clear that there IS no cop in these parts, and many people re-considered whether they really wanted to post here. As Eryk said, people will only post here if it's fun. Speaking for myself, I'm still here with no plans to leave.

I think you're right. Why spend the money? We're not exactly respecting authority here anyways.

Pass me that Glenfiddich! And hold the ice.

Here you go.

It's a tad early for me to be hitting the hard stuff, so I'll just stuck with the Guiness for now.

And I don't disrespect authority; I just don't recognize it.

I'll have a half.

Here you go.

Sorry it took so long - Lost Weekend, don't ya know.

This issue again. I wasn't going to post, but the entire episode left a bad taste in my mouth, so here I go again.

Like Dev-em, as someone who tried hard, not out of any common sense, to fix things up after Thriftshop Debutante had her hissy fit, it annoyed me to constantly be confronted with self-indulgent goodbye threads.

Why bother to repair something when the majority of the posters engaged in prima donna farewells at the first sign of trolling?

I used to like the LMBP. I thought they were fun, and had a good sense of community. But many of the people who posted here were too thin-skinned.

And ungrateful. Rob has got it right: he forked out cash to give these people somewhere to fart around, and then they left, badmouthing him.

Anyway, my vote (for what its worth) originally was to shut the board, but if some people are still enjoying it, then let it stay.

You tell 'em, Steve-Dave!

I miss the days when the Legion boards
actually talked about the Legion.

Then it became very bizarre.

It became almost totally NON Legion
chat.

I miss the OLD Legion boards,
Whose demise caused the mass exodus
to here, and I miss how good the Legion
boards Here were at first, right after
Rob was kind enough to put them up
here for us.

The Legion has been my favorite comic
book since 1964, when I first discovered
it at the age of 7.... That's almost 40
years!!!

It's a shame that some people had to
mess it all up.

It's like the Shooter - Swan era from the
old Adventure Comics Featuring Superboy
and the Legion Of SuperHeroes. Nothing
lasts forever.

( Sound of a big Sigh. )

Well, I love the Legion. That will remain
constant.

Good day to all.

...

wuzzat a poem of sorts?

like one o'them haikus?