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Check this out from ESPN: ESPN.com news services The Green Bay Packers have been granted permission by Cleveland to talk with quarterback Tim Couch, whose days with the Browns appear to be dwindling. Browns spokesman Todd Stewart said Wednesday that the Packers called requesting a chance to speak with Couch and Cleveland gave its approval. Packers spokesman Aaron Popkey said the team had no comment. Sources close to Couch told ESPN.com's Len Pasquarelli on Wednesday night that the uncertainty over quarterback Brett Favre and how much longer he will play in Green Bay could deter the former Browns starter from joining the Packers, even for the short-term. "Right now, I don't see it happening, but we'll see," said a member of Couch camp when asked about a potential deal with the Packers. Couch's five-year stint with the Browns effectively ended earlier this month when the club signed free-agent quarterback Jeff Garcia to a four-year deal. The Browns told Couch's agent, Tom Condon, he could discuss a deal outside the AFC North for his client. Stewart said the Packers were the first team to call. Green Bay could be looking for a backup and potential successor to Brett Favre, who is nearing the end of his career and has hinted in the past about retiring. The Packers' current backup is journeyman Doug Pederson, and Couch would be a significant upgrade. Couch, though, just wants a fresh start and a chance to play after being replaced by Garcia. Couch's rocky tenure in Cleveland came to a crashing end when the Browns did an about-face and dropped contract talks with him to pursue Garcia. Couch was caught off guard by the Browns' sudden disinterest in him. He had turned down an offer to restructure his $15.6 million contract over the next two years when the club asked him to take a 58 percent pay cut. The low offer was another blow to Couch, who after being selected with the No. 1 overall pick in the 1999 draft by Cleveland, had survived five difficult years with the Browns. He has had a hot-and-cold relationship with Cleveland fans, who have never seemed to decide whether they liked Couch or not. Last season, Couch lost his starting job to Kelly Holcomb but got it back when Holcomb got hurt and then struggled. Browns coach Butch Davis seemed intent on bringing back Couch as his starter next season when he suddenly became enamored with Garcia, who was released last month by San Francisco when he refused to take a pay cut with the 49ers. After Garcia signed with Cleveland, Davis asked Couch if was interested in staying on as a backup. Couch said no and told Davis he wanted to go to another team. In 62 appearances with the Browns, 59 of them starts, Couch has completed 1,025 of 1,714 attempts, for 11,131 yards, with 64 touchdown passes, 67 interceptions and a passer rating of 75.1.
"You kind of get tired giving the other team credit. At some point you've got to look in the mirror and say 'I sucked.'"
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Couch needs to swallow his pride and just accept the fact that nobody's going to break the bank on him.
Were I him I'd be talking with the former team of the guy that took my job, that being San Francisco. The 49ers are in serious trouble right now. People talk about how much the Bucs have been hit....the 49ers have lost practically their entire offense. Jeff Garcia, Garrison Hearst, Terrell Owens, Tai Streets, Derrick Deese, Ron Stone: all gone. They did resign Kevin Barlow and Eric Johnson, which I guess at least shows that they want to keep their good young players, but man....why do I get the feeling that Dennis Erickson's "secret plan" is to throw Ken Dorsey in there midway through the year and hope for the best?
Now, to be fair, this is the same franchise that managed to find success soon after losing Hall of Famers like Jerry Rice and Steve Young, but I don't see Tim Rattay as being another Jeff Garcia...and while servicable, I don't think Kevin Barlow is someone on the cusp of stardom like Terrell Owens was.
Barring a draft day miracle, it looks like dark days ahead for 49er fans.
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He was willing to swallow a bit of his pride and restructure his deal in Cleveland, until they signed Garcia.
Butch has never been sold on Couch...and Butch has got to worry about the 2004 season if he indeed wants to stay in Cleveland.
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Terrell Owens is an asshole. I visited his "official site" and made a point of chewing out the mofo. Placing himself above the team like that is up there with Moss and Keenan Johnson. Words of wisdom--never criticize the QB.
As for Tim Couch. He just never had it. No ethic, not the smarts. Maybe talent, but he never took it to the next level, and that was what got him crushed.
Words not violence, break the silence. Maybe.
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Butch Davis just doesn't want players that are from the previous coaching regime. He's slowly moving all of them out. Getting rid of KJ shows that. They never should have gotten rid of him.
I don't know about him going to SF. I don't think Erickson is all that great of a pro coach and they've lost so much on offense it wouldn't help him. Green Bay would be great because they have a solid offensive line and he can learn from Favre as well. Players like Brunell and Hasselback learned from behind him so it'd be great for him to go there.
"You kind of get tired giving the other team credit. At some point you've got to look in the mirror and say 'I sucked.'"
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I wouldn't say Tim Couch "never had it". He wasn't awful, he just wasn't spectacular. His QB rating, yards per attempt, all solid. His biggest problem was health, really. Missed more than half the year in 2000, then was hurt at the beginning of last year when Kelly Holcomb dazzled and instilled doubt in the minds of fans, coaches and teammates. He never really got a fair shake.
Plus, he had absolutely no running game. He had Terry Kirby in '99(who ran for a whopping 452 yards), then rookies the next 3 years(Travis Prentice, James Jackson and William Green), none of whom had particularly stellar seasons(Prentince-512 yards, 3.0 ypc, Jackson-554 yards, 2.8 ypc, Green-887 yards, 3.7 ypc).
The reason I'd think San Francisco would be a better stop than Green Bay is simply because Tim Couch is going to be 27 in July, and who knows how long Brett Favre has left. He's not the same quarterback he was 8 years ago, but if he wanted to play another 3-4 years, I bet he could. Green Bay picks 25th in the draft, anyway, meaning that Tulane's J.P Losman could fall right in their lap. San Fran picks 16th and has a chance to get one of the big time receivers, which would give Couch something to work with.
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Favre had a solid season and I doubt he's on the verge of retiring but I do think it's time for the Pack to get some insurance. IMO, the Niners are on a downslide, whereas the Pack are at least maintaining the status quo. What's more important to a QB: a good line or good WR's? If he has no line, he's gonna get killed but if he has one that can give him time he can get the ball to anyone. And the Pack has Ahman Green and the Niners have an unproven Kevan Barlow. Sure, he can probably be a 1000 yard back, but people thought the same about Troy Hambrick when Emmitt Smith left Dallas and that sure didn't happen. I think sitting behind Favre for a few years would do well for couch. Kinda like how Steve Young was behind Joe Montanna or even Matt Hasselback behind Favre.
"You kind of get tired giving the other team credit. At some point you've got to look in the mirror and say 'I sucked.'"
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I'm with animalman on this one...IMHO, Tim's never had a solid running game nor the greatest offensive line. His stats are neither stellar nor horrendous (maybe they're better than you might think, given that he started his career on an expansion team).
I know this will sound kinda silly, but I really think it hurt the Browns development to make the playoffs in '03. It lowered their draft position AND gave too big a kick to Butch's ego.
There are already some rumors going round that Butch wants to go back to the college game...
Jim
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
I know this will sound kinda silly, but I really think it hurt the Browns development to make the playoffs in '03. It lowered their draft position AND gave too big a kick to Butch's ego.
I agree, I think it gave them a sense of stability they never really had. They weren't really a playoff team, even last year, they just peaked at the right time, and made it in thanks to some last day oddities.
They made the playoffs, lowered their draft position, and got complacent. They weren't very active in the offseason(and actually let a quality player like Dwayne Rudd go without truly replacing him), and had a decent, but not great, draft. Jeff Faine may have a long career, but there's a reason centers are almost never drafted in the first round. They could have done a lot better. Lee Suggs may end up making up for it, but the Browns track record of developing young running backs is not very good(especially since they've had so many).
I think Green Bay should draft a QB to eventually supplant Favre, but if I was Couch, I'd want to go somewhere where I at least had a chance of starting next year. Like I said, he's not getting any younger.
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Wasn't Steve Young 30 when he went to San Fran?
"You kind of get tired giving the other team credit. At some point you've got to look in the mirror and say 'I sucked.'"
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He was 26 his first year in San Francisco, but it was also just his 3rd year in the NFL(after 2 miserable ones with the Bucs). He'd played in just 19 games, so he wasn't really experienced enough to be ready to contribute. He didn't take over the starting job until 4 years later, and in this era of free agency, I doubt he would have lasted that long. Someone would have seen him backing up Montana, and would have took a chance on him. Just look at Rob Johnson.
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Well, this is the last option I would have thought of. Quote:
ESPN.com news services
Cleveland Browns: Tim Couch is no longer welcome in the Browns' weight room, but he may still be welcome in camp.
Confused? Welcome to the limbo being currently experienced by Couch, whose five-year tenure in Cleveland seemed to end when the club signed former San Francisco starter Jeff Garcia to a four-year, $25 million contract three weeks ago.
Couch is barred from the weight room out of the fear an injury might diminish his already lagging trade value, but team executives may still be interested in bringing the veteran quarterback to training camp on a one-year deal.
Couch has been dangled in trade talks, and Green Bay head coach Mike Sherman had dinner with the quarterback last Wednesday evening, but a deal does not seem imminent. Now comes word that the Browns might be interested, given the inertia in the market, in signing Couch to a one-year contract as Garcia's backup.
His current contract still has two years remaining, at base salaries of $7.6 million for 2004 and $8 million for '05, with cap charges of $9.26 million and $9.66 million, respectively. Absent a trade, the Browns likely will release Couch, but continue to discuss the one-year option that team president Carmen Policy suddenly has on the table.
"He might be better off doing the kind of deal we're talking about, maybe even make more money than he can on the open market, and then being guaranteed free agency next year," Policy said. "It's a distinct possibility."
In the meantime, Couch, who reported last week for the start of the Browns' offseason conditioning program, since he is still under contract and property of Cleveland, has been asked not to attend the sessions or use the weight room at the team complex. The fear is that Couch could be injured, not only further cutting his trade value, but, more important, leaving the Browns liable for his current contract.
It is believed that Couch is now using a Cleveland-area health club for offseason training.
In 62 appearances, 59 of them starts, Couch has completed 1,025 of 1,714 attempts, for 11,131 yards, with 64 touchdown passes, 67 interceptions and a passer rating of 75.1. The former Kentucky star was the first player chosen in the 1999 draft.
--- Len Pasquarelli, senior NFL writer for ESPN.com
"You kind of get tired giving the other team credit. At some point you've got to look in the mirror and say 'I sucked.'"
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Well, according to ESPN it's looking more and more like Couch will go to Green Bay. Though Chicago is also trying to pick him up. I like how Dallas is finally wising up and going after a veteran QB. Word is Dallas in interested in signing Kerry Collins.
"You kind of get tired giving the other team credit. At some point you've got to look in the mirror and say 'I sucked.'"
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Green Bay not drafting a QB was very suspicious, I probably should have known right then it meant Couch was high on their list.
Dunno what to say about Collins. Still a good quarterback, sure...eh, I'm just pissed off about passing up Steven Jackson.
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The Cowboys are stupid. Them passing on Jackson shocked me. But then, they've needed a QB for a few years now, and why they haven't taken a flyer on Jon Kitna or Trent Dilfer when they were available is beyond me. I think the Cowboys had one of the worse drafts.
Glad to see them thinking of Collins. I can't believe the NYG is giving up on him after being in the Super Bowl with him so recently. They have Shockey, Barber, Hilliard and Toomer. They need defense more than they need a new QB.
Couch will be the 21st century's answer to Steve Young. You can bet on it.
"You kind of get tired giving the other team credit. At some point you've got to look in the mirror and say 'I sucked.'"
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Quote:
jafabian said:Glad to see them thinking of Collins. I can't believe the NYG is giving up on him after being in the Super Bowl with him so recently. They have Shockey, Barber, Hilliard and Toomer. They need defense more than they need a new QB.
Couch will be the 21st century's answer to Steve Young. You can bet on it.
The NYG are taking a huge risk. I understand that you only see a guy you think is a franchise QB guy once in a blue moon, and Accorsi's still stinging over Elway in '83 when Accorsi was with Baltimore. But to anoint Eli as the starting next year when you're only a year removed from the playoffs (a game they should have won in SF in Jan. 03), it just doesn't make sense. Of course, Eli's going to make a shitload of $$ and Collins makes a good payday; he didn't want to take a paycut. And frankly, why should he? The Giants signed him to that deal, Kerry honored his portion of it.
Michael Strahan had some concerns aired yesterday, about the Gmen putting it all on the rook's shoulders. Strahan worries, rightly, that he may not be around to enjoy the eventual fruits of Eli's efforts. The NFL truly does mean Not For Long.
And Couch being the next Young? I doubt it. Tim doesn't have Steve's mobility. I'm guessing Tim will back up Brett in GB for two years, if GB doesn't draft Brett's real heir in the interim. At this point, Tim may never be more than an adequate starter in the NFL.
Jim
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Tim Couch is also a butt pirate.
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According to new reports, Bill Parcells has already ruled out taking Collins. That's that, I guess.
This is just my opinion, but I really don't see Eli Manning as a super prospect. Certainly a "safe" pick by QB standard, a great college player, but he doesn't have the arm-strength of a John Elway, the mobility of a Steve Young, or the intangibles of a Peyton Manning. He's very accurate, poised, and has great genes. He'd still be a first round pick if his name wasn't "Manning", but I wonder if he'd also still be someone a team like the Giants would be willing to give up so much to get.
Tim Couch isn't the same kind of player as Steve Young, but he certainly has the talent to be a fine replacement for Brett Favre. I'd still want to go somewhere where I could start immediately, though, if such a place exists(and it may not).
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i saw Eli on Letterman the other night, while he didnt seem stupid by any means he didnt seem to have that extra "awareness" that steve young, favre, elway or the other greats had. to me if you had to give one of the top qb's in this draft the most likely to be ryan leaf award i would pick Eli....
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Yeah, he sounds like he's retarded. Peyton doesn't have quite the twang Eli and Archie have, though he doesn't sound like a genius, either.
Leaf's problems were ultimately his immaturity and his injury problems, neither of which scouts have labeled concerns for Eli(even with the Chargers/Giants thing), but if intangibles were what San Diego wanted, they definitely got the right guy in giving him up for Phillip Rivers.
J.P Losman, on the other hand, reminds me a lot of Ryan Leaf. Bad mechanics, childish, but mega talented. He can't be a complete idiot, though, since Tulane isn't the easiest school in the world to get in to....
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Merril Hoge, I think, nailed it on the cut-in bits that he, Greenberg, and Jaworski did during the draft...if Eli's last name wasn't Manning, he'd be getting nowhere near this attention, he wouldnt' be viewed nearly as highly, and he probably wouldn't have had his daddy tell the Chargers he didn't want to play for them.
Eli's got a tough load on his plate...he's been all but given the Giants hopes for 2004 and beyond. That is going to be sooo tough on him, in that environment. Hell, it took Phil Simms til 1984 to finally fit in and start getting things done there.
IMHO, Tim Couch is nothing but serviceable. Um, I don't mean that to sound like I would service him...I just don't think "great QB" will ever be uttered alongside "Tim Couch."
JJ
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Quote:
Animalman said:
I'd still want to go somewhere where I could start immediately, though, if such a place exists(and it may not).
I would too, but no team even drafted me!
And that's terrible.
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
IMHO, Tim Couch is nothing but serviceable. Um, I don't mean that to sound like I would service him...I just don't think "great QB" will ever be uttered alongside "Tim Couch."
JJ
Along with "Eli's got a tough load on his plate", you just gave bsams a lot of material, there.
I wouldn't say he's destined for greatness, necessarily, but I do think that he's talented, and that with some weapons(something he didn't have much of in Cleveland) he can be a fine quarterback.
Then again, I think there are a lot of guys you can say that about.
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What I meant was that Couch will be like Young in the sense of creating controversy as to who should start, and then after being on the bench behind a future Hall of Famer and then when he finall starts in a few years he'll finally be the player everyone thought he'd be and piss off all of Cleveland.
No, he isn't nearly as mobile as Young, but I think he'll have about the same success career-wise now that he's in Green Bay.
"You kind of get tired giving the other team credit. At some point you've got to look in the mirror and say 'I sucked.'"
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Quote:
Animalman said:
Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
IMHO, Tim Couch is nothing but serviceable. Um, I don't mean that to sound like I would service him...I just don't think "great QB" will ever be uttered alongside "Tim Couch."
JJ
Along with "Eli's got a tough load on his plate", you just gave bsams a lot of material, there.
It was my intent to be funny.  As far as giving anybody "material," these are just words.
Jim
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Quote:
jafabian said:
What I meant was that Couch will be like Young in the sense of creating controversy as to who should start, and then after being on the bench behind a future Hall of Famer and then when he finall starts in a few years he'll finally be the player everyone thought he'd be and piss off all of Cleveland.
I find it impossible to fathom how there could be any controversy. If Favre wants to start, he's starting, and nobody in the entire state of Wisconsin is going to question it for one second.
And that's terrible.
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i think anybody who has any doubts about who should start between favre and couch doesnt really follow the game, an aging favre is light years above couch.....
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Didn't people say the same thing about Young after his USFL stint? I saw him when he played in that league. Believe me, he didn't impress at the time. It's a wonder what a good coach and good line can do for you.
"You kind of get tired giving the other team credit. At some point you've got to look in the mirror and say 'I sucked.'"
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Brett Favre personifies Packer football more than anybody, ever, outside of Vince Lombardi. Even if Couch suddenly becomes better upon showing up, there will be no controversy. Favre's the starter.
Controversy arose in San Fran because Montana was injured quite a bit and Young would shine in his place. Favre hasn't missed a game in a decade. He'd have to be hit by a mack truck to miss a start. Until that happens, there will be no debate over who should start between him and Couch.
And that's terrible.
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Well, Joe was pretty healthy before Young got there, but age and injuries caught up to him. That gave Young the opportunity he needed to showcase his skills which were never shown during his time in the USFL. Favre is still an All Pro but he's come close to sitting out a game or two because of injuries the past couple years. Now that he has a competent back up don't be surprised if sit, especially if the game is meaningless.
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"Controversy arose in San Fran because Montana was injured quite a bit and Young would shine in his place."
This is how the controversy arose...the 49ers traded for Young from TB before the '87 season. The 49ers had a great season that year, going 13-2 in the strike year. In the playoffs, they hosted a red-hot Vikings team that was coming off having just utterly shellacked the Saints, in the Superdome. The Vikings creamed the 49ers. Joe had a horrible day. Toward the end, Walsh replaced Montana with Young, and Young actually put a little excitement into the team with his scrambling, though it was far too late to change the outcome of the lopsided game. This was the start of the rift between Walsh and Montana. However, Montana returned in '88 as the starter and led the 49ers to back to back Super Bowl wins over the Bengals and Broncos. By 1990, Walsh was retired and the 49ers hosted the NFC Championship game against the Giants. The Giants won a close game and knocked Montana out at the very end. Going into the 91 season, Montana had elbow problems and had to be shelved for what ended up being the better part of the 91 and 92 seasons, during which Young played extremely well and demonstrated that he was now the guy in SF. Montana then requested a trade because his elbow was healed and he felt he was not ready to hang 'em up. So the infamous deal was made that sent Joe to the Chiefs, wherein he had a couple of good years, leading the Chiefs to the playoffs both times (and producing two spectacular games...one against the Oilers in the 93 playoffs down in the Dome and one against the Broncos on MNF where Joe ran for a TD in the win).
Next time, class, why the West Coast Offense should really be called The Ohio River Offense.
Jim
We all wear a green carnation.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,030
6000+ posts
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6000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,030 |
I would think that Couch is looking at GB thinking that Brett's only gonna play maybe two more years (though in QB terms, that's an eternity to be a clipboard holder). But at least Couch knows that GB has the weapons and the decision makers that can get a team into the playoffs. But still, I would think Tim would want a chance to start now, and he clearly won't have that in GB unless Favre absolutely cannot go.
We all wear a green carnation.
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 14,896
10000+ posts
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10000+ posts
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Posts: 14,896 |
That MNF game with Denver and KC is still today the best game I have ever had the pleasure of watching. Montana vs. Elway, two gunslingers in a saloon shootout, two future hall of famers going all out, "leaving it all on the feld" as the cliche goes. They went back and forth, effortlessly driving down the field and scoring, and in the end, Joe just said "I'm going to win this game, and there's nothing you can do about it."
That was why Joe Montana was the best to ever play the game, and that was why he was my hero.
Thanks for bringing back good memories, Jim.
MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,030
6000+ posts
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6000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,030 |
Quote:
Animalman said:That was why Joe Montana was the best to ever play the game, and that was why he was my hero.
Thanks for bringing back good memories, Jim.
My pleasure. 
The one guy in the NFL I miss is Joe Montana. He beat the Bengals so many times, I nearly hated him for it. Yet he was clearly the best I ever saw play. I really hated to see him leave.
Jim
We all wear a green carnation.
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 14,896
10000+ posts
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10000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 14,896 |
Growing up, I didn't just want to be like Joe Montana, I wanted to be Joe Montana. Funny, considering this was in Dallas, where Joe wasn't exactly the most popular guy around.
Football didn't have much appeal to me for a while after he left. I doubt there will ever be another quarterback quite like him.
Fuck Tom Brady. Every time somebody makes that stupid comparison I want to kill them.
MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 14,896
10000+ posts
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10000+ posts
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Posts: 14,896 |
Tim Couch was released today, despite speculation that Cleveland would keep him as trade bait.
MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
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Joined: Jun 2003
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I have gas. 2000+ posts
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OP
I have gas. 2000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,170 |
I'd like to see him as a Cowboy, but I don't see that happening. Be funny if the Niners got him, considering Garcia is who forced him out.
I hope he does well. After the whole incident where the Cleveland fans cheered when he got a concussion makes me root for him.
"You kind of get tired giving the other team credit. At some point you've got to look in the mirror and say 'I sucked.'"
Alex Rodriguez, after the NY Yankees were eliminated from the 2006 ALDS by the Detroit Tigers.
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 14,896
10000+ posts
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10000+ posts
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Posts: 14,896 |
He's not coming here, but were I to guess I would say he's Green Bay bound, if only due to the fact that the Packers didn't take a quarterback in the draft. San Francisco would probably be where Couch would want to go(since he has the best chance to start there), but for whatever reason they seem comfortable with Tim Rattay and Ken Dorsey as #1 and #2 on the depth chart.
The Jets would make sense as well. They lost Vinny, leaving them without a quality backup. Chad Pennington would surely remain the starter, but I imagine the Jets have at least some concerns about him staying healthy.
Who knows, though. He could end up going somewhere like Chicago, Baltimore or San Diego, to serve as a stopgap for a young QB like Grossman, Boller or Rivers.
MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
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