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I didn't take it as him "mocking" Christians, just pointing out hypocrisy. We should have more churches out there belting that out.
I agree that teh Church needs to be called on to the carpet ALOT and Christians exhibit hypocracy. If this had been the first post by r3x then i may probe to see what he was getting at, but this isn't his first point and it's clear what he's getting out. He's expressed nothing but disdain and intollerance towards Christians. Sure the public face of Cristianity may share culpability in the disdain that people hold towards them, but if someone decides they hate, sy, black people because of the representation by Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and the proliferation of Gangsta rap, that doesn't mean they aren't a racist.
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r3x29yz4a said:
So, disagree with a religion and I'm a bigot?
Make a joke, and i'm looking for a fight?
Interesting.
I thought the joke was a joke and that it was funny. I never saw you picking for a fight or being a bigot.
Last edited by Jim Jackson; 2005-03-01 3:49 PM.
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Pariah said:
Hmm?
Before I speak, I fear I really didn't understand you previous post about Muslims and perversion. Could you clarify?
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wannabuyamonkey said:
I didn't say you were a biggot because you disagree with religion, but because of your hostility and disdain for Christians, please try to follow, it's not that hard to understand. As far as looking for a fight? It's a little late to try and take the high road now.
Not trying to take the high road myself, though I probably am, but you seem to have a lot of disdain and hostility also for those who don't share or mock (at least in your view) your own beliefs, and especially for those you deem sinners.
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FYI, I don't know how it is in Christian bibles, but the Torah is pretty specific about the Sabbath being on the seventh day of the week.
In the old testamate, it is the seventh day that is the Sabbath, but it was changed to the first in the New testamate because that was the day of Jesus' resurection and He said that He was the Lord of the Sabbath. Just out of curriosity, do you as a Jew consider teh Cristians belife in what we call teh Old Testamate to make us Jews or would you consider the belief that Jesus Christ is God in uman flesh a diversion of Judeism?
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Isn't the ten commandments from the old testament? Wouldn't that technically make them Jewish since you and wannabuyamonkey refuse to acknowledge that its the same god, you just made a fool of yourself.
Why is this such a difficult for you to understand. Before you attemt to be a condecending ass-hole and claim that we make our selves look follish. Why don't you get your facts straight. If we were Jewish we wouldn't refer to it as the OLD Testamte, now would we? The mere fact that we obseve the sabbath on Sunday rather than Saturday because we believe that Jesus Christ is teh Lord of the Sabbath and has the authority to change that makes that pretty damn clear. Stop pretending that you know what Christians believe or even that you know what Jews believe, try sticking with defining what YOU believe and let us define what we believe because to attemt to do otherwise makes you look, ...well,... foolish.
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Wednesday said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
I didn't say you were a biggot because you disagree with religion, but because of your hostility and disdain for Christians, please try to follow, it's not that hard to understand. As far as looking for a fight? It's a little late to try and take the high road now.
Not trying to take the high road myself, though I probably am, but you seem to have a lot of disdain and hostility also for those who don't share or mock (at least in your view) your own beliefs, and especially for those you deem sinners.
OK, let me break this up a little because while I respect you, I think you've made some conclusions that based on assumptions rather than things I've acctually said.
but you seem to have a lot of disdain and hostility also for those who don't share or mock (at least in your view) your own beliefs
I think we definately need do differintiate between having disdain for non-Christians and a disdain for being mocked. I don't think you would lump people who were white automatically with people who mock minorities. I have NO disdain for you or for G-Man or Pariah (for being a Catholic rather than a Protastant). I would ask if I've ever expressed acctual disdain towards any of you? Yes i get annoyed with being mocked and I make that clear. I also recognise when someone is making a playfull joke, I laugh all the time at the ribbing Christians get on the Simpsons, but I don't find as much humor when people get overtly hostile towards me based on my faith. I suspect you may be viewing me through an assumption you've developed beforehand about Christians, because I think I've made my position about the next issue very clear on multiple occasions.
and especially for those you deem sinners.
When have I EVER shown disdain for those I deem "sinners". Do you even know who I deem to be sinners, because I've made it very clear whome I deem to be sinners. I believe WE all are sinners, at times I would dare to say that I'm chief among sinners.
Both of your accusations seem like a blanket accusation against Christians as a whole at least as far as you recognise them. I think you just assume that I hold the same view as those you assume represent the faith. otherwise i would really like to know where and when I railed against "sinners". Perhaps it was shortly before I declared Tinky Winky the Telletubby as furthering the Gay agenda.
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wannabuyamonkey said:
Just out of curriosity, do you as a Jew consider teh Cristians belife in what we call teh Old Testamate to make us Jews or would you consider the belief that Jesus Christ is God in uman flesh a diversion of Judeism?
I'd have to say that believe that Christianity has become a different religion from Judaism. Despite similar moral codes and a shared history, the belief that Jesus is G-d in human form is contrary with the most important Jewish beliefs and concepts of G-d.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
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Wednesday said:
Before I speak, I fear I really didn't understand you previous post about Muslims and perversion. Could you clarify?
Well, truth be told, I kinda drew to a conlusion here. I'm not up on my Middle-Eastern history. When r3x recited that Allah is a derivative of Abraham's God, I figured that a group of people must have alienated just about all of the Christian/Judeo principles from God when they created the new version. When I think about Allah's origin, I think of the prophet Muhammed, so I.........Heh! Whoops! Major time gap. I screwed up, sorry.
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Darknight613 said:
I'd have to say that believe that Christianity has become a different religion from Judaism. Despite similar moral codes and a shared history, the belief that Jesus is G-d in human form is contrary with the most important Jewish beliefs and concepts of G-d.
As a Catholic, I believe that I'm a fulfilled Jew. S'what I was taught.
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Pariah said:
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Darknight613 said:
I'd have to say that believe that Christianity has become a different religion from Judaism. Despite similar moral codes and a shared history, the belief that Jesus is G-d in human form is contrary with the most important Jewish beliefs and concepts of G-d.
As a Catholic, I believe that I'm a fulfilled Jew. S'what I was taught.
Okay then.
Keep in mind that we Jews do not believe that non-Jews are "sinners," or that everybody ought to be Jewish. We're taught that "all the nations of the world have an equal share in the World to Come" (are eligible to get into Heaven), as long as you guys behave yourselves. We were just given a special set of rules that the rest of the world is not obligated to follow (except for a few, like a prohibition on murder, theft, adultery, cruelty to people and animals, that sort of thing.)
We do, however, consider monotheism to be the one true path. Since Christains and Muslims are monotheistic, you guys are in good shape (although in the early days, there were some questions about whether the Holy Trinity was considered to be polytheism, but nowadays just about everyone considereds Christians to be monotheistic).
As for the rest...it's for G-d to judge them, not us people.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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Darknight613 said:
Keep in mind that we Jews do not believe that non-Jews are "sinners," or that everybody ought to be Jewish.
Course I won't.
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I agree with everything you said except the Muslim part....................those fuckers will burn in hell...........their religion preaches the end and destruction of all non-muslims.......they are preachers of hate.........but that's OK 'cause I own some guns see and if they ever comea trespassing on my yard......BAM! 
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PJP said:
I agree with everything you said except the Muslim part....................those fuckers will burn in hell...........their religion preaches the end and destruction of all non-muslims.......they are preachers of hate.........but that's OK 'cause I own some guns see and if they ever comea trespassing on my yard......BAM!
That's not true. Its just as bad as the Jewish stereotypes. I've known several Muslims and had some long religious talks with them. The Muslim faith and the Qoran is at its core very similar to Judeo-Christian faiths. The problem with Muslim countries is that they haven't really evolved in their social attitudes. The Judeo-Christian societies of the middle ages were very similar in practice towards "heretics" as Muslim fanatics are today, but the secularism that evolved in Europe forced those religions to adapt. The Muslim regions in the world have also been plagued by wars (a lot of which was started by outsiders) and other crap that have limited social change.
Really you have to keep in mind that the Islamic religion isn't the problem, its the Islamic governments and the Islamic fanatics.
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wannabuyamonkey said:
OK, let me break this up a little because while I respect you, I think you've made some conclusions that based on assumptions rather than things I've acctually said.
but you seem to have a lot of disdain and hostility also for those who don't share or mock (at least in your view) your own beliefs
I think we definately need do differintiate between having disdain for non-Christians and a disdain for being mocked. I don't think you would lump people who were white automatically with people who mock minorities.
No, I wouldn't. Nor would I label all Christian as having disdain for non-Christians. Also, I didn't say non-Christians, but people who don't share your own beliefs. Many Christians, by my definition of Christians, would fall under that category.
For the record, I say you have disain because you've shown an sense of self-righteousnes,. For the record, so have I.
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
I have NO disdain for you or for G-Man or Pariah (for being a Catholic rather than a Protastant). I would ask if I've ever expressed acctual disdain towards any of you? Yes i get annoyed with being mocked and I make that clear. I also recognise when someone is making a playfull joke, I laugh all the time at the ribbing Christians get on the Simpsons, but I don't find as much humor when people get overtly hostile towards me based on my faith.
Honestly, when was r3x overtly hostile towards you specifically. Many people here, including myself, saw it as a ribbing. Whether or not it was funny is up to you, but I think we can both agree there was no actual hostility.
Also, from things you've said in the past, I think the reason you can laugh at the ribbing 'Christians' get on the Simpsons is because you don't associate yourself with the overly zealous ones they target. You don't view yourself as a Telletubby (sp?) hater. I'm just saying that your example may not be an example of your willingness to laugh at others laughing at you, though I'm willing to bet you could given other circumstances.
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wannabuyamonkey said:
I suspect you may be viewing me through an assumption you've developed beforehand about Christians, because I think I've made my position about the next issue very clear on multiple occasions.
Believe me when I say it would be difficult for me to make an presumption about Christians.
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
When have I EVER shown disdain for those I deem "sinners".
You've shown that you consider certain groups as beneath yourself, in my view, and that, by definition, is disdain (I should know, I googled it). For example, you believe that Jesus does not love homosexuals, do you not? And you believe that he does love you?
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wannabuyamonkey said:
Do you even know who I deem to be sinners, because I've made it very clear whome I deem to be sinners.
Yes, because you've made that clear.
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wannabuyamonkey said:
I believe WE all are sinners, at times I would dare to say that I'm chief among sinners.
I simply can't agree there.
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wannabuyamonkey said:
Both of your accusations seem like a blanket accusation against Christians as a whole at least as far as you recognise them. I think you just assume that I hold the same view as those you assume represent the faith. otherwise i would really like to know where and when I railed against "sinners". Perhaps it was shortly before I declared Tinky Winky the Telletubby as furthering the Gay agenda.
Again, that's not true, and again it would be difficult for me to have a blanket view of all Christians. I have a person who simply refuses to open themselves to the idea that what they believe may not be right, but that's an individual quality.
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Pariah said:
Quote:
Wednesday said:
Before I speak, I fear I really didn't understand you previous post about Muslims and perversion. Could you clarify?
Well, truth be told, I kinda drew to a conlusion here. I'm not up on my Middle-Eastern history. When r3x recited that Allah is a derivative of Abraham's God, I figured that a group of people must have alienated just about all of the Christian/Judeo principles from God when they created the new version. When I think about Allah's origin, I think of the prophet Muhammed, so I.........Heh! Whoops! Major time gap. I screwed up, sorry.
Okay, that's what was confusing me.
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r3x29yz4a said:
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PJP said:
I agree with everything you said except the Muslim part....................those fuckers will burn in hell...........their religion preaches the end and destruction of all non-muslims.......they are preachers of hate.........but that's OK 'cause I own some guns see and if they ever comea trespassing on my yard......BAM!
That's not true. Its just as bad as the Jewish stereotypes. I've known several Muslims and had some long religious talks with them. The Muslim faith and the Qoran is at its core very similar to Judeo-Christian faiths. The problem with Muslim countries is that they haven't really evolved in their social attitudes. The Judeo-Christian societies of the middle ages were very similar in practice towards "heretics" as Muslim fanatics are today, but the secularism that evolved in Europe forced those religions to adapt. The Muslim regions in the world have also been plagued by wars (a lot of which was started by outsiders) and other crap that have limited social change.
Really you have to keep in mind that the Islamic religion isn't the problem, its the Islamic governments and the Islamic fanatics.
Not a bad point..............only problem is the fanatics and dictator government dominate the region, the people, and the religion.
However in Iran's defense........underground polls show that the people are overwhelmingly pro-american......it's just they can't do anything about it.
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From the reading I've done (not on google before you say it) it goes.
Abraham has the covenant with god. He is essentially jewish/hebrew I suppose (it wasn't really defined, it was the only real monotheism at the time).
He has two sons, Isaac and Ishmael. Ishamael is the oldest, but born from a concubine so he doesn't get the birthright (essentially to write the bible and commune with god). Isaac gets the birthright and Ishmael is exiled.
Ishmael's followers become Muslims, Isaac continues with the Jews.
Jesus is born and raised Jewish. AFTER his death, there is division in the faith over whether he is really god's son or not. So the christian faith is born.
Mohamad (I can never get the spelling right) has his talk with allah* (or an angel, I forget) in a cave and goes to Mecca and blah blah blah. To Muslims he is considered the last prophet of allah, but the jews/christians don't recognize him as such. Mohamad writes a series of reforms for the faith.
Its all the same god, just different views on what exactly god wants in the fine print of things and who god sent to deliver the fine print.
*it should be noted that "Allah" is not the name of god, its the word for god.
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like I said I'm not disputing your facts or your point at all.............however, the bad guys are a huge majority over in the Middle East and the "good" muslims are stifled......they may as well be non-existant.
Last edited by PJP; 2005-03-01 4:48 PM.
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Wednesday said:
Again, that's not true, and again it would be difficult for me to have a blanket view of all Christians. I have a person who simply refuses to open themselves to the idea that what they believe may not be right, but that's an individual quality.
Also for the record, I'm not putting you in this group when I say this. Just wanna make that clear.
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Man, I don't want *anybody* to ever bitch at me again about thread derailment.
Ever.
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Please stick to the topic at hand, Jim.
Thanks.
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Thank you Wednesday............Jim .....Rob rescinded your bid to be a mod after that last post.........you have derailed yet another topic. 
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Honestly, when was r3x overtly hostile towards you specifically.
Several times he has called me stupid, foolish etc or that I was a hypocrite for doing things that "HE" interpreted as Christian (such as swearing)
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Also, from things you've said in the past, I think the reason you can laugh at the ribbing 'Christians' get on the Simpsons is because you don't associate yourself with the overly zealous ones they target.
They've made jokes that i thought were funny and at the same time I thought described me to a tee.
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You've shown that you consider certain groups as beneath yourself, in my view, and that, by definition, is disdain
When have I EVER said that some groups were beneath me? This is the type of accusation I don't even feel a need to defend unless you can show me an example of where I did this. Without an example all i need say is I don't view ANYONE as beneath me.
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For example, you believe that Jesus does not love homosexuals, do you not? And you believe that he does love you?
I have NEVER said this. i do believe that Jesus loves those who believe in him differently than those who regect, mock or openly depise him, but I also believe that Jesus knows who are his and who aren't in a way that I can never know. Someone could be railing against Christ and shouting curses against him out on the street, but Jesus knows that he is still His. I don't think that homosexuality precludes anyone from Christs love. I have a serious question for you. Considering that I've never said that Jesus hates gays why would you who stated that you couldn't make presumtions about Christian accuse me of holding those beliefs if it's not a predidus towards my specific brand of Cristianity.
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Believe me when I say it would be difficult for me to make an presumption about Christians.
Seeing as how your presumptions about this individual Christian have been so off base I believe you 
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Yes, because you've made that clear.
Yes and what I've made clear is that WE all are sinners so if I lump myslef and those closest to me and those who share my faith in the same group how can you say that I disdain sinners.
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I simply can't agree there.
That's fine because we're not discussing wether or not my belifs are correct, but wether they breed contempt. Frankly it seems like this is more a tit for tat defending one of your own against the attacks of a Christian. How else can you equate my assuption that r3x is contemptuous of Cristians based on the fact that he's attacked me based on my faith many times with out as much as a pretense of humor by making accusations based on belifs that you've ascribed to me but I've never presented.
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Again, that's not true, and again it would be difficult for me to have a blanket view of all Christians. I have a person who simply refuses to open themselves to the idea that what they believe may not be right, but that's an individual quality.
So your beef with me is that i believe my faith to be true, because i'm not a Christian who doubts his own faith? I find that ironic since you've never expressed an openness to accepting Christianity and expressed little if any doubt of your lack of faith in Jesus Christ. How open are you to the ideas that Scripture is God breathed and without error, how open are you to the idea that Jesus Christ died for your sins and only through him can you find? I find it frusterating that "tollerant" people will only tollerate a Christian who doubts his own faith. I respect your right to believe as you do and don't hold any contept for you and i hope I've never ascribed beliefs to you that you didn't hold. Frankly it bothers me that you've made so many assumptions about me that run contrary to how I truly feel, but without knowing what (if anything) I've acctually said to lead you to these assumptions I can't really say anything but you clearly don't know me and your assumptions about what I believe are absolutely wrong.
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Jim Jackson said:
Man, I don't want *anybody* to ever bitch at me again about thread derailment.
Ever.
I promise not to.
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r3x29yz4a said:
From the reading I've done (not on google before you say it) it goes.
Abraham has the covenant with god. He is essentially jewish/hebrew I suppose (it wasn't really defined, it was the only real monotheism at the time).
He has two sons, Isaac and Ishmael. Ishamael is the oldest, but born from a concubine so he doesn't get the birthright (essentially to write the bible and commune with god). Isaac gets the birthright and Ishmael is exiled.
Ishmael's followers become Muslims, Isaac continues with the Jews.
Jesus is born and raised Jewish. AFTER his death, there is division in the faith over whether he is really god's son or not. So the christian faith is born.
Mohamad (I can never get the spelling right) has his talk with allah* (or an angel, I forget) in a cave and goes to Mecca and blah blah blah. To Muslims he is considered the last prophet of allah, but the jews/christians don't recognize him as such. Mohamad writes a series of reforms for the faith.
Its all the same god, just different views on what exactly god wants in the fine print of things and who god sent to deliver the fine print.
*it should be noted that "Allah" is not the name of god, its the word for god.
That's fine that you believe this, but can't you accept that this isn't what I belive and that my God, the triune God who is Father Son and Holy Ghost isn't the same God worhiped by teh Jews or Muslims. I realised you've read something else, but is it really fair to accuse every one who didn't agree with whatever you read somewhere of being foolish for not accepting it. I'm not accusing you of beng foolish for believing it, even though I believe it's patently false, because I can accept that you and I believe differently.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
" I know God exists because WBAM told me so. " - theory9
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1) "I am the Lord your G-d who brought you out of the land of Egypt..."
2) "You shall have no other gods besides Me...Do not make a sculpted image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above..."
3) "You shalt not swear falsely by the name of the Lord..."
4) "Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy" (the version in Deuteronomy mentions "Keep" rather than "Remember")
5) "Honor your father and your mother..." (also "Fear your mother and your father...")
6) "You shall not murder"
7) "You shall not commit adultery"
8) "You shall not steal" (sometimes interpreted as kidnapping, since there are other injunctions against stealing property in the Bible).
9) "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor"
10) "You shall not covet your neighbor's house..." (in Exodus, the text reads "... neighbour's house, ... neighbour's wife, nor his manservant..." etc. while in Deuteronomy, "thy neighbour's wife, ... thy neighbour's house, his field" etc.) Seeing as the first five commandments between God and man, (honoring/fearing a parent is like honoring/fearing God) and the second five commandments are negative commandments between man and his/her fellow man, (negative meaning "do not"), I figure if there were another five, they would be positive commandments between man and his/her fellow man. 11) Use your toung (speech) in a manner worthy of the gift it is, for it is what separates man from animal. That's all I've got right now. I'll leave the rest up to you.
<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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Pariah said:
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Pig Iron said:
Actually there is evidence that, historically and technically currently, Saturday should be the Christian Sabbath as Sunday is the first day of the week and saturday is the 7th. By not honoring the sabbath and following the worship days of bewildering pagan rituals "the day of the sun" I assume christians are incorrectly following scripture and god's rules and breaking a commandment.
I'll have to look into that, but please to note the act of respecting the Sabbath is concerned more with you putting aside of a day for which to worship God.
Whatever you think. That's like saying God is only interested in you putting away idols of the devil not idols of Mary and christ..sheesh.
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Batwoman said:
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r3x29yz4a said:
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2) "You shall have no other gods besides Me... Do not make a sculpted image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above..."
Well, the christians sure didn't follow that one.
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4) "Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy" (the version in Deuteronomy mentions "Keep" rather than "Remember")
Since you're obviously looking for a fight, I'll point out what you're blatently twisting to suit your argument. The cross is a symbol (sym·bol Pronunciation Key (smbl)
n.
Something that represents something else by association, resemblance, or convention, especially a material object used to represent something invisible.) to represent our faith. The Crusifix is a Catholic symbol, not a Protistant one, get your facts straight. Yes we believe that, but we don't focus on it like Catholics do, we use either a bare cross or one with a shroud drapped across it, like the one I wear.
As for your argument of the Saboth, it can be any day of the week actually. My pastor spoke of this fairly recently, since he and any one else on the church's payroll that works weekend services, he takes Monday as his Saboth.
That all I'll say on this, I wont degrade this thread into an debate to prove you wrong, any more than I already have.
I think your Pastor is wrong on the sabbath thing and I thing God is against idols like the cross because it weakens and waters down the message much like the picture of the straight haired blue-eyed Christ. Christ was a man, but what he looked like is unimportant.
Last edited by Pig Iron; 2005-03-02 1:19 AM.
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Quote:
Darknight613 said:
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Pariah said:
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Pig Iron said:
Actually there is evidence that, historically and technically currently, Saturday should be the Christian Sabbath as Sunday is the first day of the week and saturday is the 7th. By not honoring the sabbath and following the worship days of bewildering pagan rituals "the day of the sun" I assume christians are incorrectly following scripture and god's rules and breaking a commandment.
I'll have to look into that, but please to note the act of respecting the Sabbath is concerned more with you putting aside of a day for which to worship God.
Like the example before of a priest choosing to observe the Sabbath on a Monday? I find it to be an intriguing concept.
FYI, I don't know how it is in Christian bibles, but the Torah is pretty specific about the Sabbath being on the seventh day of the week.
Actually Christians should abide by the old testament and the new. as both sets of rules apply. Most don't honor th eating stuff either because they say " that applies to the jews' but I think the rules are there for a reason.
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wannabuyamonkey said:
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FYI, I don't know how it is in Christian bibles, but the Torah is pretty specific about the Sabbath being on the seventh day of the week.
In the old testamate, it is the seventh day that is the Sabbath, but it was changed to the first in the New testamate because that was the day of Jesus' resurection and He said that He was the Lord of the Sabbath. Just out of curriosity, do you as a Jew consider teh Cristians belife in what we call teh Old Testamate to make us Jews or would you consider the belief that Jesus Christ is God in uman flesh a diversion of Judeism?
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Isn't the ten commandments from the old testament? Wouldn't that technically make them Jewish since you and wannabuyamonkey refuse to acknowledge that its the same god, you just made a fool of yourself.
Why is this such a difficult for you to understand. Before you attemt to be a condecending ass-hole and claim that we make our selves look follish. Why don't you get your facts straight. If we were Jewish we wouldn't refer to it as the OLD Testamte, now would we? The mere fact that we obseve the sabbath on Sunday rather than Saturday because we believe that Jesus Christ is teh Lord of the Sabbath and has the authority to change that makes that pretty damn clear. Stop pretending that you know what Christians believe or even that you know what Jews believe, try sticking with defining what YOU believe and let us define what we believe because to attemt to do otherwise makes you look, ...well,... foolish.
Actually you should research that because Easter is a transformed pagan holiday as well. But I digress. Most of these were beleiefs were implemented by simon the sorcerer in the days of Constantine..so you should check..
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
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FYI, I don't know how it is in Christian bibles, but the Torah is pretty specific about the Sabbath being on the seventh day of the week.
In the old testamate, it is the seventh day that is the Sabbath, but it was changed to the first in the New testamate because that was the day of Jesus' resurection and He said that He was the Lord of the Sabbath. Just out of curriosity, do you as a Jew consider teh Cristians belife in what we call teh Old Testamate to make us Jews or would you consider the belief that Jesus Christ is God in uman flesh a diversion of Judeism?
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Isn't the ten commandments from the old testament? Wouldn't that technically make them Jewish since you and wannabuyamonkey refuse to acknowledge that its the same god, you just made a fool of yourself.
Why is this such a difficult for you to understand. Before you attemt to be a condecending ass-hole and claim that we make our selves look follish. Why don't you get your facts straight. If we were Jewish we wouldn't refer to it as the OLD Testamte, now would we? The mere fact that we obseve the sabbath on Sunday rather than Saturday because we believe that Jesus Christ is teh Lord of the Sabbath and has the authority to change that makes that pretty damn clear. Stop pretending that you know what Christians believe or even that you know what Jews believe, try sticking with defining what YOU believe and let us define what we believe because to attemt to do otherwise makes you look, ...well,... foolish.
Actually beatitudes reinforces and makes the ten commandments more difficult.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
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Darknight613 said:
I'd have to say that believe that Christianity has become a different religion from Judaism. Despite similar moral codes and a shared history, the belief that Jesus is G-d in human form is contrary with the most important Jewish beliefs and concepts of G-d.
As a Catholic, I believe that I'm a fulfilled Jew. S'what I was taught.
Again, incorrect.....if you research and actually study the bible rather than the pagan enriched teachings of the mediterranean church you would understand that ancient Israel was split in two after Joseph...the mosern Christians are the house of Israel and the modern jews are the house of judah...which was sanctified by jacob. anyway..............
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r3x29yz4a said:
From the reading I've done (not on google before you say it) it goes.
Abraham has the covenant with god. He is essentially jewish/hebrew I suppose (it wasn't really defined, it was the only real monotheism at the time).
He has two sons, Isaac and Ishmael. Ishamael is the oldest, but born from a concubine so he doesn't get the birthright (essentially to write the bible and commune with god). Isaac gets the birthright and Ishmael is exiled.
Ishmael's followers become Muslims, Isaac continues with the Jews.
Jesus is born and raised Jewish. AFTER his death, there is division in the faith over whether he is really god's son or not. So the christian faith is born.
Mohamad (I can never get the spelling right) has his talk with allah* (or an angel, I forget) in a cave and goes to Mecca and blah blah blah. To Muslims he is considered the last prophet of allah, but the jews/christians don't recognize him as such. Mohamad writes a series of reforms for the faith.
Its all the same god, just different views on what exactly god wants in the fine print of things and who god sent to deliver the fine print.
*it should be noted that "Allah" is not the name of god, its the word for god.
And further Josephs sons split the birthright as well, one ot the birthright and the other got the scepter (ie..jews and christians).
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Biblicaly, Christ came to fulfil (and thus abolish) the Law Covenant with Isreal. It no longer carries any weight (sabbath and all) for Christians.
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Not quite true. He established a new covenant that built upon the old one. I think the making sacrifices thing is the only one specifically abolished.
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Quote:
Pig Iron said:
Not quite true. He established a new covenant that built upon the old one. I think the making sacrifices thing is the only one specifically abolished.
Exactly true, acctually. This was not only stated by Him (please don't make my drunk ass find the pasages tonight), but was further symolized by the nailing of the comandments to the cross (thus they died with his body).
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Why did he resanctify them in Beatitudes then? He went a step further even..hence turn the cheek exct.
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