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I'm really getting sick of this argument. When people bitch about how comic books are written I read that many are nothing but fanfic writers given free reign to comic book properties. Fuck all that.
Y'know the only difference between a fanfic writer and a comic book author?
A paycheck.
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i would say there would be more of a difference or why would the company offer a paycheck? i mean if the same quality was available for free, companies like Time Warner didnt make their billions by giving away money to fans of their properties....
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No they made thier billions by buying out and corrupting smaller companies that built the character fan-base from the ground up.
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Not today...no. Not sure what my point was there.
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i think you were trying to be anti-establishment.
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In any form of entertainment unknowns are waiting to be discovered. Some people are successful, have work in the industry, others honestly have no business being there and some really do belong but are just never discovered. On a marginal level of contrasting talent ability, the only other real difference is success.
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OK, here's the question. When a new writer is slated for a book that writer is suposed to research continuity (how well they do is a different topic) So when they're researching continuity who's work do they check, the paychecked writer or teh lonely fat girl's fan-fic?
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
OK, here's the question. When a new writer is slated for a book that writer is suposed to research continuity (how well they do is a different topic) So when they're researching continuity who's work do they check, the paychecked writer or teh lonely fat girl's fan-fic?
This is hilarious in so many ways. 
Uschi said:I won't rape you, I'll just fuck you 'till it hurts and then not stop and you'll cry. MisterJLA: RACKS so hard, he called Jim Rome "Chris Everett." In Him, all porn is possible. He is far above mentions in so-called "blogs." RACK him, lest ye be lost! "I can't even brush my teeth without gagging!" - Tommy Tantillo: Wank & Cry, heckpuppy, and general laughingstock ![[Linked Image from i6.photobucket.com]](http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/JoeMama13/RedSoxBanner05.png)
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Quote:
Fused said:
In any form of entertainment unknowns are waiting to be discovered. Some people are successful, have work in the industry, others honestly have no business being there and some really do belong but are just never discovered. On a marginal level of contrasting talent ability, the only other real difference is success.
thats a different point than your first one you said the only difference is the paycheck not true. if the quality was the same the publishers would be takinbg the free stuff.
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My point is, that artists, writers, filmmakers: they all started out making fanworks. Some are are at a higher skill level. And some are getting paid for it.
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That's a bit of a broad statement. There are a lot of creators of different stripes who started out by creating their own characters and stories. The majority of filmmakers, for instance, work on more or less original works. And I'm not just talking about Hollywood.
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Quote:
Fused said:
My point is, that artists, writers, filmmakers: they all started out making fanworks. Some are are at a higher skill level. And some are getting paid for it.
you might wanna edit that into your original post , it's an entirely different post.
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Some comic book writers show a high degree of technical skill. Others have no real craftsmanship at all. Its a bit of misnomer to cast all of them in the same shitty light. I will say though that comics seems to have a disproportionately high number of bad ones, though.
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Quote:
First Amongst Daves said:
Some comic book writers show a high degree of technical skill. Others have no real craftsmanship at all. Its a bit of misnomer to cast all of them in the same shitty light. I will say though that comics seems to have a disproportionately high number of bad ones, though.
Very good. I approve.
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Quote:
First Amongst Daves said:
I will say though that comics seems to have a disproportionately high number of bad ones, though.
No. Look at all the shit being put on TV and in movie theaters. Let's not forget to mention books and music. Like all professions, there are comic writers who are hacks, others who are decent, a few who are above average, and the rare lot who are outstanding.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Publishers employ writers who sell books. If fanboy wank like Geoff Johns and Joss Whedon is what's currently selling, then, the publishers will target more writers of the same caliber and lack of originality to sell more books.
If fans stop buying the tripe that Whedon, Loeb, and the like hack out, then, a good percentage of those writers will lose dominance, and a different breed will move in to the top spot.
I don't think it has anything to do with a writers ability, but more on what fanbase and profit margin he/she appeals to. Johns is a perfect example. He has targeted the mass audience of fanboys, and has absolutely bowed to their every whim (see GL: Rebirth). Thus, he has established a mass following, and substantial profit margin for the company. Do I like it? No. It's repetitive drivel. Does it sell? Obviously.
Are most comic authors simply fanfic writers? Not neccessarily. They simply appeal to that demographic to make a sell, and thus, fall into that category. So, don't blame the writers, simply because of the mindless herd that follows them. Blame the herd for not having the same taste as you.
Just my opinion...
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Quote:
britneyspearsatemyshorts said:
thats a different point than your first one you said the only difference is the paycheck not true. if the quality was the same the publishers would be takinbg the free stuff.
That's doesn't work, BSAMS. If I wrote some Spider-Man stories in my free time and Marvel decided they were good, they couldn't just take them since I originally did them for free. They would have to still pay me. Then I would be a published Spider-Man writer and not a fanfic writer.
As for the thread as a whole, I agree with Fused. You might say that a comic book writer doesn't write as well as this fanfic writer or this other writer (who may have his own properties or not) but the difference between someone who writes for his own joy and a professional is, as Fused said, a paycheck.
Bob Burden said:
Pie for the pirates,
wine for the dogs.
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Quote:
Kaz said:
Quote:
britneyspearsatemyshorts said:
thats a different point than your first one you said the only difference is the paycheck not true. if the quality was the same the publishers would be takinbg the free stuff.
That's doesn't work, BSAMS. If I wrote some Spider-Man stories in my free time and Marvel decided they were good, they couldn't just take them since I originally did them for free. They would have to still pay me. Then I would be a published Spider-Man writer and not a fanfic writer.
As for the thread as a whole, I agree with Fused. You might say that a comic book writer doesn't write as well as this fanfic writer or this other writer (who may have his own properties or not) but the difference between someone who writes for his own joy and a professional is, as Fused said, a paycheck.
You missed the whole point, I didnt say they could take the fanfic. I'm saying if fanfic writers were up to the quality why would Marvel pay someone what they pay them, when there are virtually thousands of rabid fanboys who would write it on the cheap? They don't just arbitrarily(sp?) say lets throw a bunch of money at this fanfic writer. Do a yahoo search there are thousands of fanfic writers, and I would bet 98% of them would write Avengers or whatever they are fans of for a dollar. But generally speaking its not up to snuff. Or if it is they dont have the skills to get it published. Which is not a knock, it takes a little something extra in any field to be a upper tier proffessional. Fused analogy is like saying the only difference between a MLB player and The local summer team is the paycheck. Just not true.....
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His original point was "all things being equal."
True, most writers can't write well.
If someone is good enough, though, from the ranks of fanfic and they get a job at Marvel, then what they are doing is no longer fanfic, but actual work.
If you are saying that So-and-So is a fanfic writer and what you mean is that they write at a level of bad writers everywhere, then you're case is true. But if you're saying that a writer is the same level of just a good fanfic writer, then Fused is right to say that the difference is in the pay.
It's all semantics, baby.
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you need to read his post he said the only difference is a paycheck. im always right.
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You're always pretty. I'll give you that. 
Bob Burden said:
Pie for the pirates,
wine for the dogs.
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I'm catching flack from a guy who has a dude wearing lipstick as his avatar?
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dont make fun of The G-man!
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Quote:
britneyspearsatemyshorts said:
um thats kinda gay,,jim.
I didn't even say anything!
We all wear a green carnation.
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Maybe I should have titled the thread: "Comic Authors are only Fanfic Writers?" Writers?? Question?
Im not saying that all authors are hacks. Just successful.
Ok. Ego aside, I'm a really good fucking artist. I think I'm better than some pros. I'm not in the industry however, so that pretty much makes me a fan artist. If I got discovered and got a gig, then my success. . . my paycheck, is the only thing that makes me different from another fan artist.
And I dont care what Kaz says, that shade of lipstick is whore-RIFFIC!
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I would agree that many comic writers are just paid fanfic writers in the sense that they write what they would want to see happen (or the fans like them would want to see happen) to their favourite characters, as opposed to what would make for the best story. See GL: Rebirth.
Thing is- I can’t spell or type. I spell so badly my spell check doesn’t even know what I was trying to spell. And I have five Eisners HAHAHAHHA!!
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I agree. Quote:
thedoctor said:
Quote:
First Amongst Daves said:
I will say though that comics seems to have a disproportionately high number of bad ones, though.
No. Look at all the shit being put on TV and in movie theaters. Let's not forget to mention books and music. Like all professions, there are comic writers who are hacks, others who are decent, a few who are above average, and the rare lot who are outstanding.
Books have an enormous screening process. Most books are of decent quality because of the effort it takes to publish them.
TV is just slightly less competitive, and worse for a writer, use focus groups to cull out the crap.
Doug Moensch once said that Time Warner regarded DC as the creative slums of the group, and I understand why. How can you disagree when one of the biggest selling comics in the last 12 months was Avengers: Disassembled? no real craftsmanship went into that, and it had multiple reprints.
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I digress here,
I dont give a shit what elitist views people have about Avengers: Disassembled. I bought the shit out of it and thought it was dope. Im not less for thinking that either. For having my own preferences. Not trying to be an asshole to anyone in particular, just the mindset.
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dave 
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Everyone has a right to their opinion. Avengers Disassembled was a joke. Sloppy, reactionary writing as Joey Q. and Bendis try and keep up with DC. It was rushed, repetitive, and had about as much dramatic impact as reading old copies of West Coast Avengers...where it was done first. And better. Identity Disc. Secret War. Everytime Marvel tries and writes in a reactionary state to the six-second craze of the market, as opposed to just creating something original and fun, they simply bury themselves deeper and deeper into redundancy. My opinion... 
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Quote:
First Amongst Daves said:
I agree.
Quote:
thedoctor said:
Quote:
First Amongst Daves said:
I will say though that comics seems to have a disproportionately high number of bad ones, though.
No. Look at all the shit being put on TV and in movie theaters. Let's not forget to mention books and music. Like all professions, there are comic writers who are hacks, others who are decent, a few who are above average, and the rare lot who are outstanding.
Books have an enormous screening process. Most books are of decent quality because of the effort it takes to publish them.
TV is just slightly less competitive, and worse for a writer, use focus groups to cull out the crap.
Doug Moensch once said that Time Warner regarded DC as the creative slums of the group, and I understand why. How can you disagree when one of the biggest selling comics in the last 12 months was Avengers: Disassembled? no real craftsmanship went into that, and it had multiple reprints.
Um, no, any glance over any bookstore or television station or movie marquee will prove that there is a lot of crap that does get made. Culling just as often sifts out the good with the bad, especially with these moronic "focus groups" which along with the other practices regularly used by those in marketing, is slowly killing any and all creativity across the boards in these media.
Look at the number of shit film remakes that studios are pumping out with increasing numbers. Or the sheer number of books pumped out just to fill "genre labels" on bookstore shelves. If you're a writer who's books don't conveniently fit into one of our neat little genre labels, well then sorry, but we just don't have any place to rack you on our shelves.
Time Warner may indeed still look down on DC. And with the shite like Catwoman and Constantine that they're churning out, that's very much the impression I get. But I defy you or anyone else to look at these films and judge them against say the Loeb/Sale Catwoman mini or the Brubaker/Cooke ongoing or most of Hellblazer's run and say that Time Warner has a better idea of what's a quality product.
There's very little creativity left in most big budget studio films or television and even a casual observer of the movie industry is very much aware of that fact.
And what does Dissassembled have to do with DC? Poor example for your argument. I know you're going to reply that it's an example of a successful comic book, but Marvel and DC can be apples and oranges at times. If you're going to site Time Warner's opinion of DC, then push forth some examples of DC's stupidity. There's quite a few of them out there to choose from, and I know that you're never at a loss for something to say about JSA, just as an example.
The simple truth is that 90% of most of what's out there is shite, and that goes for tv, movies, comics, music, whatever. And for any one of these industries to look down on the other's "creativity" is both arrogant and presumptuous. Especially when half of them blindly steal from comics while pretending to turn their nose up at them.
Rant over.
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Quote:
Fused said:
I digress here,
I dont give a shit what elitist views people have about Avengers: Disassembled. I bought the shit out of it and thought it was dope. Im not less for thinking that either. For having my own preferences. Not trying to be an asshole to anyone in particular, just the mindset.
I'm not being elitist. It had big explosions and a death toll. It was The Chronicles of Riddick of comics. Some people like that shit. Other people like a decent plot.
Quote:
Rant over.
Let me start you up again.
Quote:
Um, no, any glance over any bookstore or television station or movie marquee will prove that there is a lot of crap that does get made. Culling just as often sifts out the good with the bad, especially with these moronic "focus groups" which along with the other practices regularly used by those in marketing, is slowly killing any and all creativity across the boards in these media.
Without a test audience for concepts, we'd be getting a lot more "Wild Wild West" movies.
Quote:
Look at the number of shit film remakes that studios are pumping out with increasing numbers.
Mainstream film is hard to argue with, but there is plenty of indie quality out there to keep most of us happy.
Indie comics too, for that matter.
Quote:
Or the sheer number of books pumped out just to fill "genre labels" on bookstore shelves. If you're a writer who's books don't conveniently fit into one of our neat little genre labels, well then sorry, but we just don't have any place to rack you on our shelves.
Huh? There are some excellent books out there. Books have the most rigorous content filteration system of any mass media because the margins are so low. Unless its actually good, or written by someone with a reputation, it won't see print.
Quote:
Time Warner may indeed still look down on DC. And with the shite like Catwoman and Constantine that they're churning out, that's very much the impression I get. But I defy you or anyone else to look at these films and judge them against say the Loeb/Sale Catwoman mini or the Brubaker/Cooke ongoing or most of Hellblazer's run and say that Time Warner has a better idea of what's a quality product.
There's very little creativity left in most big budget studio films or television and even a casual observer of the movie industry is very much aware of that fact.
And what does Dissassembled have to do with DC? Poor example for your argument. I know you're going to reply that it's an example of a successful comic book, but Marvel and DC can be apples and oranges at times.
Setting aside Vertigo, the content of both publishing houses is virtually interchangable. You're trying to tell me Identity Crisis couldn't have happened as an Avengers book, or Disassembled as JLA book?
Quote:
If you're going to site Time Warner's opinion of DC, then push forth some examples of DC's stupidity. There's quite a few of them out there to choose from, and I know that you're never at a loss for something to say about JSA, just as an example.
You're just trying to antagonise me now, aren't you? Everyone knows I love JSA and wouldn't miss a heartbeat of its high quality legacy goodness.
Quote:
The simple truth is that 90% of most of what's out there is shite, and that goes for tv, movies, comics, music, whatever. And for any one of these industries to look down on the other's "creativity" is both arrogant and presumptuous. Especially when half of them blindly steal from comics while pretending to turn their nose up at them.
Examples? Because on the one hand you cite Catwoman and Constantine as missing the point, and now you say other media steal comics' good ideas.
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Quote:
I'm not being elitist. It had big explosions and a death toll. It was The Chronicles of Riddick of comics. Some people like that shit. Other people like a decent plot.
That's a contradiction, you say you not being elitist then you say some like big explosions other people like a decent plot. As if one is exclusive to the other.
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Quote:
britneyspearsatemyshorts said:
Quote:
I'm not being elitist. It had big explosions and a death toll. It was The Chronicles of Riddick of comics. Some people like that shit. Other people like a decent plot.
That's a contradiction, you say you not being elitist then you say some like big explosions other people like a decent plot. As if one is exclusive to the other.
You got me. (And I'm also being elitist.)
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Well this is something that I have been saying all along; the vast majority or "kewl" modern so-called "writers" are pumping out nothing more than glorified fanfic. In fact I think that the only differences between the "kewl" popular "writers" that everyone gushes over and fanfic writers that people make fun of is the paycheque and the fact that fanfic writers usually love the characters while professional "writers" are just using them as a launchpad for a career in screen writing.
It's nice to see that other people are starting to finally get a clue.
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