RKMBs Forums .::Important::. Politics and Current Events Cindy Sheehan

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Snapman said:

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wannabuyamonkey said:

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For the last two presidential elections it has been the Democratic Party whose nominee was a Vietnam War veteran, while the Republicans have sputtered out spurious defenses of their candidate's deceitful draft-dodging.

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Are you now suggesting that military service should be a requirement for the presidency. If so I think that would be a great debate to have. So bring it on.

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I think he's suggesting that members of the right, who are typically portrayed as being pro-military, are hypocritical in defending Bush, who may have deliberately avoided Vietnam. Meanwhile, the last two Democratic candidates did serve in Vietnam and were criticized by members of the right for what they did in the war (regardless of whether the criticism was deserved or not).

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r3x29yz4a said:
Pariah, have you ever lost a kid? She's not saying "my son had no right to join the army." she's saying "i want you to tell me why he died."

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Even if Bush tells her why--And he has--That won't stop more of their kids from getting killed. So the logical extension of the statement in this picture is to leave it up to the parents.

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theory9 said:

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wannabuyamonkey said:
Does anyone here care about those grieving parrents? .... No, of course not because they don't further your agenda.

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At least you're becoming more honest regarding your silly agenda...

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unrestrained id said:
They have an "agenda".

The last pic spells it out.









Fucking "hippies"!

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Snapman said:

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wannabuyamonkey said:

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For the last two presidential elections it has been the Democratic Party whose nominee was a Vietnam War veteran, while the Republicans have sputtered out spurious defenses of their candidate's deceitful draft-dodging.

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Are you now suggesting that military service should be a requirement for the presidency. If so I think that would be a great debate to have. So bring it on.

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I think he's suggesting that members of the right, who are typically portrayed as being pro-military, are hypocritical in defending Bush, who may have deliberately avoided Vietnam. Meanwhile, the last two Democratic candidates did serve in Vietnam and were criticized by members of the right for what they did in the war (regardless of whether the criticism was deserved or not).

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unrestrained id said:
They have an "agenda".

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"We began the killing as soon as we stepped foot on these shores [of America] and the killing has gone on unabated for over 200 years."

"There has always been excuses for wars, but NONE of them have been good or valid."

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"This country is not worth dying for.”

“America has been killing people on this continent since it was started."

"The U.S. government is a morally repugnant system.”

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“9/11 was Pearl Harbor for the neo-conservatives’ agenda.”

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"Am I emotional? Yes, my first born was murdered. Am I angry? Yes, he was killed for lies and for a PNAC Neo-Con agenda to benefit Israel."

"My son joined the Army to protect America, not Israel."

"Am I stupid? No, I know full-well that my son, my family, this nation, and this world were betrayed by a George Bush who was influenced by the neo-con PNAC agenda after 9/11."

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"My first born was killed violently for a neo-con agenda that only benefits a very chosen few in this world."

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“George Bush and his neo-conservatives killed my son.”

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"Our country has been overtaken by murderous thugs...gangsters who lust after fortunes and power; never caring that their addictions are at the expense of our loved ones, and the blood of innocent people near and far."

"We've watched these thugs parade themselves before the whole world as if they are courageous advocates for Christian moral values...and for the spread of democracy."

"The US government is now ruled by murderous hypocrites...criminals who should be arrested, charged appropriately, confined behind bars."

"In their secret hiding places, while celebrating newly won fortunes with their fellow brass, these men must surely congratulate themselves with orgies of carnal pleasure as they mock the dwindling multitudes who are yet so blind as to mistake them for God's devoted servants."

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"Every member of Bush's executive branch (past and present) and every member of Congress who voted to give George the authority to invade Iraq have innocent blood on their hands. For the next State of the Union address, maybe the hypocrites in Congress should shamefacedly display blood-soaked hands, instead of proudly wriggling fingers stained with ink to symbolize sham Iraqi elections."

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"Then we have this lying bastard, George Bush..."

"So anyway that filth-spewer and warmonger, George Bush was speaking..."

"We can't let somebody rise to the top who will pardon these war criminals. Because they need to go to prison for what they've done in this world. We can't have a pardon. They need to pay for what they've done."

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Can't believe Bush won't meet with her.



http://tinyurl.com/d8s7q

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"Another thing that I'm doing is - - my son was killed in 2004, so I'm not paying my taxes for 2004. If I get a letter from the IRS, I'm gonna say, you know what, this war is illegal; this is why this war is illegal. This war is immoral; this is why this war is immoral. You killed my son for this. I don't owe you anything. And if I live to be a million, I won't owe you a penny."

"And I want them to come after me, because unlike what you've been doing with the war resistance, I want to put this frickin' war on trial. And I want to say, "You give me my son, and I'll pay your taxes."

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"You get America out of Iraq and Israel out of Palestine and you'll stop the terrorism."

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"When I was growing up, it was Communists'. Now it's Terrorists'. So you always have to have somebody to fight and be afraid of, so the war machine can build more bombs, guns, and bullets and everything."

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“The biggest terrorist is George W. Bush.”

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"I DEFINITELY think that we should support war resisters in the military."

"I know several people who are being court-martialed, and they need support--they need monetary support, they need our moral support, and they need to know that we’re with them."

"We need to encourage more people to do this. "

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"Why does Terry Schiavo deserve to live more than my son, Spc. Casey Austin Sheehan?"

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Cindy Sheehan, the grieving mother who maintained an anti-War protest outside of President Bush's ranch, is viewed favorably by 35% of Americans and unfavorably by 38%. . . .

In general, people see in Sheehan what they want to see. Opinion about her is largely based upon views of the War, rather than views about the woman herself. Democrats, by a 56% to 18% margin, have a favorable opinion. Republicans, by a 64% to 16% margin, have an unfavorable view. Those not affiliated with either major party are evenly divided.

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wannabuyamonkey said:

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theory9 said:

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wannabuyamonkey said:
Does anyone here care about those grieving parrents? .... No, of course not because they don't further your agenda.

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At least you're becoming more honest regarding your silly agenda...

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I don't think I've ever denied having an agenda, but can you deny that my above statement rings true of at least some posters here who followed that very statement by ignoring my challenge and completely changing the subject. They won't try and explain why we should offer unquestioning support to one mother because she lost her child and needs to grieve while refusing to honour the desires of those mothers who lost thier children.

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theory9 said:

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wannabuyamonkey said:

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theory9 said:

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wannabuyamonkey said:
Does anyone here care about those grieving parrents? .... No, of course not because they don't further your agenda.

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At least you're becoming more honest regarding your silly agenda...

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I don't think I've ever denied having an agenda, but can you deny that my above statement rings true of at least some posters here who followed that very statement by ignoring my challenge and completely changing the subject. They won't try and explain why we should offer unquestioning support to one mother because she lost her child and needs to grieve while refusing to honour the desires of those mothers who lost thier children.

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If you've paid any attention to my posts (difficult as it may seen), you'd see that I've advocated ignoring her. Intelligence dictates that a person devoid of any reasonable philosophy (and a questionable psychological state)should be ignored until they can string together a coherent statement. Which, despite her lamentable position, Mrs. (Ms.?) Sheehan has been unable to do.

When you give crazy people attention, it weakens your own position.

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War Backers Set Up Camp Near Bush Ranch

CRAWFORD, Texas - A patriotic camp with a "God Bless Our President!" banner sprung up downtown Saturday, countering the anti-war demonstration started by a fallen soldier's mother two weeks ago near President Bush's ranch.

The camp is named "Fort Qualls," in memory of Marine Lance Cpl. Louis Wayne Qualls, 20, who died in Iraq last fall.

"If I have to sacrifice my whole family for the sake of our country and world, other countries that want freedom, I'll do that," said the soldier's father, Gary Qualls, a friend of the local business owner who started the pro-Bush camp. He said his 16-year-old son now wants to enlist, and he supports that decision.

Qualls' frustration with the anti-war demonstrators erupted last week when he removed a cross bearing his son's name that was among hundreds the group had put up along the road to Bush's ranch.

Qualls called the protesters' views disrespectful to soldiers, and said he had to yank out two more crosses after protesters kept replacing them.

Cindy Sheehan, whose 24-year-old son, Army Spc. Casey Sheehan, died last year in Iraq, started the anti-war demonstration along the roadside on Aug. 6. "Camp Casey" has since grown to about 100 core participants, and hundreds more from across the nation have visited.

Sheehan vowed to remain there until Bush agreed to meet with her or until his monthlong vacation ended, but she flew to Los Angeles last week after her 74-year-old mother had a stroke. Her mother has some paralysis but is in good spirits, and if she improves, Sheehan may return to Texas in a few days, some demonstrators said.

In her absence, the rest of the group will keep camping out for the unlikely chance to question the president about the war that has claimed the lives of about 1,850 U.S. soldiers.

Bush has said he sympathizes with Sheehan but won't change his schedule to meet with her. She and other families met with Bush about two months after Casey Sheehan died, before she became a vocal opponent of the war.

Large counter-protests were held in a ditch near Sheehan's site a week after she arrived, and since then, a few Bush supporters have stood in the sun holding signs for several hours each day.

Bill Johnson, a local gift shop owner who created "Fort Qualls," said he wanted to offer a larger, more convenient place for Bush supporters to gather.

He and others at "Fort Qualls" have asked for a debate with those at the Crawford Peace House, which is helping Sheehan.

It's unclear if that will happen. But a member of Gold Star Families for Peace, co-founded by Sheehan and comprised of relatives of fallen soldiers, said her group would not participate.

"We're asking for a meeting with the president, period," said Michelle DeFord, whose 37-year-old son, Sgt. David W. Johnson, was in the Army National Guard from Oregon when he was killed in Iraq last fall. "We don't want to debate with people who don't understand our point of view."

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Self-sacrifice is a truly noble thing, when it's for the right cause. But declaring that you'd be willing to sacrifice someone else, even (or especially) someone dear to you sounds callous and selfish to me, even if it is for that same noble cause. If he had included himself, I wouldn't think it quite as callous, but to be willing to sacrifice his family but not himself (that's what it sounds like he's saying, anyway)...I just find that appalling.

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wannabuyamonkey said:

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Self-sacrifice is a truly noble thing, when it's for the right cause. But declaring that you'd be willing to sacrifice someone else, even (or especially) someone dear to you sounds callous and selfish to me, even if it is for that same noble cause. If he had included himself, I wouldn't think it quite as callous, but to be willing to sacrifice his family but not himself (that's what it sounds like he's saying, anyway)...I just find that appalling.

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I think it's something you have to take in context. I don't think he's excluding himself, but rather answering the greater question of weather he would sacrifice his children (Not against thier will, but in allowing them to fight) for teh country.

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That makes sense.

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I don't think this guy is talking about putting his children on the alter of Baal.

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I may be a little thick in the head sometimes, but I understand that much.

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the G-man said:
If you are going to turn your dead son into, basically, a propaganda tool, don't be surprised if your actions are analyzed accordingly.

Furthermore, Sheehan is far from a simple grieving mother. She's, well, something of a nut.

Sheehan spoke at an April rally in support of Lynne Stewart, who was convicted in February of providing material aid to terrorists. Here's an excerpt:

[LIST]I was raised in a country by a public school system that taught us that America was good, that America was just. America has been killing people . . . since we first stepped on this continent, we have been responsible for death and destruction. I passed on that bullshit to my son and my son enlisted. I'm going all over the country telling moms: "This country is not worth dying for." If we're attacked, we would all go out. We'd all take whatever we had. I'd take my rolling pin and I'd beat the attackers over the head with it. But we were not attacked by Iraq. We might not even have been attacked by Osama bin Laden if 9/11 was their Pearl Harbor to get their neo-con agenda through and, if I would have known that before my son was killed, I would have taken him to Canada. I would never have let him go and try and defend this morally repugnant system we have. The people are good, the system is morally repugnant. . . .

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"I take responsibility partly for my son's death, too. I was raised in a country by a public school system that taught us that America was good, that America was just. America has been killing people, like my sister over here says, since we first stepped on this continent, we have been responsible for death and destruction. I passed on that bullshit to my son and my son enlisted. I'm going all over the country telling moms: "This country is not worth dying for. If we're attacked, we would all go out. We'd all take whatever we had. I'd take my rolling pin and I'd beat the attackers over the head with it. But we were not attacked by Iraq. "

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"George Bush and his neo-conservatives killed my son," she said tearing up a bit. "America has been killing people on this continent since it was started. This country is not worth dying for."

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August 21, 2005
FOX News Completely Distorts Cindy Sheehan's Comments.
At 2:05 PM ET, FOX News Live edited one of Cindy Sheehan's quotes so as to completely alter its meaning.

Laurie Dhue introduced the segment by saying snidely that Cindy Sheehan is the "so-called Peace Mom," as if that in itself is something distasteful.

Molly Henneberg reported from Crawford, TX that Sheehan "says America is not worth dying for." Rather than provide a specific source or a clip, Henneberg merely told the audience Sheehan said that "back in April at a rally in San Francisco for a lawyer convicted of providing support to terrorists." Perhaps the reason no clip or source was provided was because Henneberg completely distorted what Sheehan said.

In fact, Iraq was the country Sheehan said was not worth dying for, as this complete quote from a transcript at wikipedia shows:

I'm going all over the country telling moms: "This country is not worth dying for. If we're attacked, we would all go out. We'd all take whatever we had. I'd take my rolling pin and I'd beat the attackers over the head with it. But we were not attacked by Iraq." {applause}
Funny, but Henneberg did show a clip of something else Sheehan said at the same rally: "If he thinks that it's so important for Iraq to have a U.S.-imposed sense of freedom and democracy, then he needs to sign up his two little party-animal girls. They need to go this war. They need to fight."

Why provide the clip on the second but not the first quote, which was the one highlighted by the story? Could it be because it was bogus and FOX News knew it?

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We are waging a nuclear war in Iraq right now. That country is contaminated. It will be contaminated for practically eternity now

Radioactive Wounds of War
Tests on returning troops suggest serious health consequences of depleted uranium use in Iraq

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"I take responsibility partly for my son's death, too. I was raised in a country by a public school system that taught us that America was good, that America was just. America has been killing people, like my sister over here says, since we first stepped on this continent, we have been responsible for death and destruction. I passed on that bullshit to my son and my son enlisted. I'm going all over the country telling moms: "This country is not worth dying for. If we're attacked, we would all go out. We'd all take whatever we had. I'd take my rolling pin and I'd beat the attackers over the head with it. But we were not attacked by Iraq. "

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"Thank God for the Internet, or we wouldn't know anything, and we would already be a fascist state."

"Our government is run by one party, every level, and the mainstream media is a propaganda tool for the government."

"Then we have this lying bastard, George Bush, taking a five week vacation in a time of war. You know what? I'm never going to get to enjoy another vacation because of him. My vacation probably -- this is really sad because I have a really cute dress I was going to wear to the banquet tomorrow night -- but I'm either going to be in jail or in a tent in Crawford, waiting until that jerk comes out and tells me why my son died."

"You tell me the truth. You tell me that my son died for oil. You tell me that my son died to make your friends rich. You tell me my son died to spread the cancer of Pax Americana, imperialism in the Middle East."

"And if you think I won't say bulls**t to the President, I say move on, cause I'll say what's on my mind."

"You get that evil maniac out here, 'cause a Gold Star Mother, somebody whose blood is on his hands, has some questions for him."

"The biggest terrorist is George W. Bush."

"If he thinks that it's so important for Iraq to have a U.S.-imposed sense of freedom and democracy, then he needs to sign up his two little party-animal girls. They need to go to this war."

"What can we do to get him out of power? And I'm gonna say the 'I' word: Impeach. And we have to have everybody impeached that lied to the American public, and that's the executive branch, and any people in congress, and we got to go all the way down... to the person who picks up the dogs**t in Washington because we can't let somebody rise to the top who will pardon these war criminals. Because they need to go to prison for what they've done in this world. We can't have a pardon. They need to pay for what they've done."

"It's up to us, the people, to break immoral laws and resist. As soon as the leaders of a country lie to you, they have no authority over you. These maniacs have no authority over us. And they might be able to put our bodies in prison, but they can't put our spirits in prison."

"Is there anyone in America who cannot yet see that Donald Rumsfeld is a liar, that he -- as with Hitler and Stalin -- will say anything so long as he thinks it will help shape the world to his own liking? Is there even one sane adult among us who cannot see that Donald Rumsfeld is a threat to our nation's security and to peace on our beloved earth?"

"Am I emotional? Yes, my first born was murdered. Am I angry? Yes, he was killed for lies and for a PNAC [Project for the New American Century] Neo-Con agenda to benefit Israel. My son joined the Army to protect America, not Israel. Am I stupid? No, I know full well that my son, my family, this nation, and this world were betrayed by George [W.] Bush who was influenced by the neo-con PNAC agenda after 9/11."

"We are waging a nuclear war in Iraq right now. That country is contaminated. It will be contaminated for practically eternity now."

"I was raised in a country by a public school system that taught us that America was good, that America was just. America has been killing people... since we first stepped on this continent; we have been responsible for death and destruction. I passed on that bulls**t to my son, and my son enlisted. I'm going all over the country telling moms this country is not worth dying for."

"Our country has been overtaken by murderous thugs... gangsters who lust after fortunes and power, never caring that their addictions are at the expense of our loved ones, and the blood of innocent people near and far. We've watched these thugs parade themselves before the whole world as if they are courageous advocates for Christian moral values... and for the spread of democracy. Yet we all know that they are now putting in place, all across this country, a system of voting that provides no way to validate the accuracy of the counting of the votes... and that, by its very design, prohibits recounting the votes. Our loved ones have been buried in early graves even as these arrogant thugs parade themselves before the entire world, insisting that democracy is worth dying for, killing for, and destroying entire cities for... In their secret hiding places, while celebrating newly won fortunes with their fellow brass, these men must surely congratulate themselves with orgies of carnal pleasure as they mock the dwindling multitudes who are yet so blind as to mistake them for God's devoted servants."

she's glad Bush never showed up to discuss her son's death in Iraq, saying the president's absence "galvanized the peace movement."

"I look back on it, and I am very, very, very grateful he did not meet with me, because we have sparked and galvanized the peace movement," Sheehan told The Associated Press.

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the G-man said:
Sheehan is now more or less admitting this was all a big publicity stunt and she never really wanted to meet with the President:

she's glad Bush never showed up to discuss her son's death in Iraq, saying the president's absence "galvanized the peace movement."

"I look back on it, and I am very, very, very grateful he did not meet with me, because we have sparked and galvanized the peace movement," Sheehan told The Associated Press.

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the G-man said:
Sheehan is now more or less admitting this was all a big publicity stunt and she never really wanted to meet with the President:

she's glad Bush never showed up to discuss her son's death in Iraq, saying the president's absence "galvanized the peace movement."

"I look back on it, and I am very, very, very grateful he did not meet with me, because we have sparked and galvanized the peace movement," Sheehan told The Associated Press.

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wannabuyamonkey said:

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the G-man said:
Sheehan is now more or less admitting this was all a big publicity stunt and she never really wanted to meet with the President:

she's glad Bush never showed up to discuss her son's death in Iraq, saying the president's absence "galvanized the peace movement."

"I look back on it, and I am very, very, very grateful he did not meet with me, because we have sparked and galvanized the peace movement," Sheehan told The Associated Press.

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Yea, the left seems to have all but abandoned Cindy for Katrina as an effort to get Bush.

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theory9 said:

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wannabuyamonkey said:

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the G-man said:
Sheehan is now more or less admitting this was all a big publicity stunt and she never really wanted to meet with the President:

she's glad Bush never showed up to discuss her son's death in Iraq, saying the president's absence "galvanized the peace movement."

"I look back on it, and I am very, very, very grateful he did not meet with me, because we have sparked and galvanized the peace movement," Sheehan told The Associated Press.

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Yea, the left seems to have all but abandoned Cindy for Katrina as an effort to get Bush.

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This is just sad, wbam. After claiming that the blame game is pointless, you do exactly the same thing. If Sheehan could've taught you anything, it's that we need to evaluate deeply our reasons for the war and how to better protect the troops. Let's figure out solutions instead of pointing fingers.

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If Sheehan could've taught you anything, it's that we need to evaluate deeply our reasons for the war and how to better protect the troops.

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theory9 said:

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the G-man said:
Sheehan is now more or less admitting this was all a big publicity stunt and she never really wanted to meet with the President:

she's glad Bush never showed up to discuss her son's death in Iraq, saying the president's absence "galvanized the peace movement."

"I look back on it, and I am very, very, very grateful he did not meet with me, because we have sparked and galvanized the peace movement," Sheehan told The Associated Press.

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Where did she admit anything? I read the same article, and that wasn't in there.

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George Bush needs to stop talking, admit the mistakes of his all around failed administration [and] pull our troops out of occupied New Orleans and Iraq

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Captain Sammitch said:
This is what happens when the hormonally-fueled megabitches we call soccer moms try to play politics.

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wannabuyamonkey said:

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the G-man said:
Sheehan is now more or less admitting this was all a big publicity stunt and she never really wanted to meet with the President:

she's glad Bush never showed up to discuss her son's death in Iraq, saying the president's absence "galvanized the peace movement."

"I look back on it, and I am very, very, very grateful he did not meet with me, because we have sparked and galvanized the peace movement," Sheehan told The Associated Press.

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Yea, the left seems to have all but abandoned Cindy for Katrina as an effort to get Bush.

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the G-man said:
For those of you who still don't think Cindy Sheehan was mentally unbalanced, check out her latest rant:

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Matter-eater Man said:

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the G-man said:
For those of you who still don't think Cindy Sheehan was mentally unbalanced, check out her latest rant:

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Sheehan obviously doesn't have a group of writers or that fine political poise that we're used to. Her comment that you reference doesn't really jibe well with the rest of her blog entry. Sounds like she's busy helping people in areas hit by Katrina.

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Do not be overly surprised if history decides that September 19, 2005, was the day that the anti-war movement died in the United States.

In a true-blue New York Metropolitan area of 22 million people, the anti-war movement's greatest star, a woman with "absolute" moral authority according to the NY Times own Maureen Dowd and branded the "Rosa Parks of the anti-war movement" by hopeful liberals, Cindy Sheehan managed to draw just 150 supporters, or 0.00068-percent of the tri-state metro area, to her well-advertised speech in Hyde Park. Even then, to this meager multitude, she didn't get to speak.

The NYPD moved in and took away Sheehan's microphone just as she was calling upon her supporters not to lose hope in the anti-war movement. It seems that while speech may be free in the United States, it won't come without a valid sound permit in the Big Apple.

On a day where the police seemed to outnumber the protestors, it may not have made much of a difference.

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A Gallup poll published on Monday found 66 percent of respondents favored the immediate withdrawal of some or all of the U.S. troops in Iraq, a 10 percentage point jump in two weeks.

Bush's personal approval on Iraq fell from 40 percent to 32 percent in the same period. In a CBS/New York Times poll the previous week, 75 percent said Bush had no clear plan for bringing U.S. troops home.

Republicans in Congress, who know they face difficult mid-term elections in November 2006, are becoming increasingly concerned about their prospects.

"The mood up here among Republicans is very very sour," said one senior staffer who did not want to be named.

For many Americans, the connection between Katrina and Iraq comes down to one word -- money.

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the G-man said:
Do not be overly surprised if history decides that September 19, 2005, was the day that the anti-war movement died in the United States.

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the G-man said:
Do not be overly surprised if history decides that September 19, 2005, was the day that the anti-war movement died in the United States.

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