|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,657
1500+ posts
|
OP
1500+ posts
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,657 |
Quote:
MisterJLA said:
Quote:
MisterJLA said:
If we leave too early, chances are another like him would assume control.
You believe the Baathist party would regain power? That they would impose a Sunni dictator on the Shia minority? If yes, on what do you base those suppositions?
"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives." John Stuart Mill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. Oscar Wilde
He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless dead.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 34,236 Likes: 15
"Hey this is PCG342's bro..." 15000+ posts
|
|
"Hey this is PCG342's bro..." 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 34,236 Likes: 15 |
Judging by the less than controlled cimcumstances in Iraq, it's probable that *a* dictator would assume power. I never claimed it would be someone connected to Saddam, but a dictator just the same.
"Are you eating it...or is it eating you?" [center] ![[Linked Image from i13.photobucket.com]](http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a275/captainsammitch/boards/banners/blogban3.jpg) [/center] [center] ![[Linked Image from i13.photobucket.com]](http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a275/captainsammitch/boards/banners/jlamiska.jpg) [/center]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,657
1500+ posts
|
|
OP
1500+ posts
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,657 |
Quote:
PenWing said:
Quote:
magicjay38 said:
You had me going until you started assigning altruistic motives to the US Government. I'm sorry, but I think it really has more to do with money, the value of the dollar and control of valuable resources. Our prior support for Saddam was motivated by the money. Not anything new. Rome was not a philanthropic enterprise and neither is DC.
While I have no doubt the dollar signs are what motivated the administration to go into Iraq in the first place, it is that altruistic motivation that forces the US to remain there.
The fact is that this country is being run by business men. When a business venture goes bad, the correct course of action is to get the hell out taking as little of a hit as possible. The problem here, and this was a big oversight on the administration's side, is that when you start messing around in other nations, you can't just take a small hit and bail when the going gets tough.
The US has no choice but to stick around, or someone else will pick up the pieces, and two things will happen. One, the Iraqi people will be subjugated again, and that is unacceptable. Two, and this probably hits closer to home with the administration, but I can't and won't say for sure, someone else makes a prophet on that oil.
I am not saying the US isn't in there for the money. What I am saying is that money isn't the only reason the US can't just pull out and cut it's losses. At this point, there are still enough people in this nation who care if the Iraqi people are subjugated. The US started this mess, and it has lost too many lives to not finish it.
Quote:
magicjay38 said:
You should be a diplomat, though. 
Thanks, but the world frowns upon people who make sense.
Again, I'm with you to a point. That point is where you said that we have no other choice but to stay. In truth there are an infinate number of alternatives. Like continueing the present policy, the alternatives have consequinces. The question is what is the set of best choices. Who will bear the cost and how will the benefits be distributed?
"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives." John Stuart Mill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. Oscar Wilde
He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless dead.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
|
|
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203 |
Quote:
magicjay38 said:
Saddam is not a viable alternative for a future leader.
midterm elections.
Bow ties are coool.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,657
1500+ posts
|
|
OP
1500+ posts
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,657 |
Quote:
MisterJLA said:
Judging by the less than controlled cimcumstances in Iraq, it's probable that *a* dictator would assume power. I never claimed it would be someone connected to Saddam, but a dictator just the same.
Would that be a bad thing if the dictator was in full support of US interests?
"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives." John Stuart Mill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. Oscar Wilde
He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless dead.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 34,236 Likes: 15
"Hey this is PCG342's bro..." 15000+ posts
|
|
"Hey this is PCG342's bro..." 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 34,236 Likes: 15 |
Depends if he's the least of all possible evils. Sometimes, we unfortunately have to ally ourselves with dictators in order to fight a more dangerous threat. 
"Are you eating it...or is it eating you?" [center] [/center] [center] [/center]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 32,001 Likes: 1
We already are 15000+ posts
|
|
We already are 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 32,001 Likes: 1 |
Touche Monsieur Pussycat!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,801
terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
|
|
terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,801 |
Heh. Back then they called him 'Papa Joe'. Jolly ol' Stalin. Who happened to kill several times as many Russians as Hitler did. Killed more Russians than Hitler killed Jews, in fact. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
|
|
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7 |
Quote:
MisterJLA said:
Depends if he's the least of all possible evils. Sometimes, we unfortunately have to ally ourselves with dictators in order to fight a more dangerous threat.
More like Winston Churchill had to ally himself with the least of all possible evils. FDR was a rat bastard.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
|
|
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
FDR actually admired Stalin somewhat, not surprisingly, given FDR's own socialist and dictatorial tendencies:
It is hard to avoid the conclusion that Roosevelt saw the Soviet Union, its record of terror and slaughter, its omnipotent dictatorship and despotism notwithstanding, as containing a greater promise of democracy and freedom than Great Britain. Somehow in Roosevelt's vision all the ugly was squeezed out and what was left was a system in Russia not extremely different from his own American New Deal. Stalin was perhaps uncouth at times, carried the blood of barbarians in his veins, but on the other hand, Roosevelt may have thought, the Soviet Union, with all warts conceded in advance, was still constitutionally pledged to its people to provide jobs, medical care and welfare very much on the order of his own New Deal; more repressive, of course, in fact too repressive, but with a level of repression not of disqualifying importance. There was also the constitutional pledge to build a classless society, which meant the kind of egalitarianism perhaps that Americans had learned from Democratic Party populists. Also the Soviet Union was forward-looking and progressive in thrust, and the aged European imperial states were not.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 32,001 Likes: 1
We already are 15000+ posts
|
|
We already are 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 32,001 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
PJP said:
Touche Monsieur Pussycat!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,657
1500+ posts
|
|
OP
1500+ posts
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,657 |
Quote:
the G-man said:
FDR actually admired Stalin somewhat, not surprisingly, given FDR's own socialist and dictatorial tendencies:
It is hard to avoid the conclusion that Roosevelt saw the Soviet Union, its record of terror and slaughter, its omnipotent dictatorship and despotism notwithstanding, as containing a greater promise of democracy and freedom than Great Britain. Somehow in Roosevelt's vision all the ugly was squeezed out and what was left was a system in Russia not extremely different from his own American New Deal. Stalin was perhaps uncouth at times, carried the blood of barbarians in his veins, but on the other hand, Roosevelt may have thought, the Soviet Union, with all warts conceded in advance, was still constitutionally pledged to its people to provide jobs, medical care and welfare very much on the order of his own New Deal; more repressive, of course, in fact too repressive, but with a level of repression not of disqualifying importance. There was also the constitutional pledge to build a classless society, which meant the kind of egalitarianism perhaps that Americans had learned from Democratic Party populists. Also the Soviet Union was forward-looking and progressive in thrust, and the aged European imperial states were not.
Are you now or have you ever been a member of the John Birch Society? (to paraphrase Roy Cohn, whom I assume to be one of your heros)
I'll write a proper response but it will take awhile.
"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives." John Stuart Mill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. Oscar Wilde
He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless dead.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
|
|
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
Quote:
magicjay38 said:I'll write a proper response but it will take awhile.
Based on your output of late, quite a while. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,657
1500+ posts
|
|
OP
1500+ posts
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,657 |
Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
magicjay38 said:I'll write a proper response but it will take awhile.
Based on your output of late, quite a while.
Hey, it's in the que, okay? 
"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives." John Stuart Mill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. Oscar Wilde
He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless dead.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
|
|
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
Well, don't knock yourself out. After all, its kind of a side issue to the main point of the thread.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 85
25+ posts
|
|
25+ posts
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 85 |
Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
PenWing said:
Some people in Iraq probably do believe that the insurgants are fighting to free them from an invading force.
True. A notion I find idiotic.
Perhaps "conditioning" is a better word than "notion."
Whether it came from years of living under Saddam's heel or listening to religious fanatics, the people who are part of or who support the insurgency feel their hatred of the USA is justified, as is their acts of violence against US troops, because of what they've been told all their lives. Saddam told his people the US was the enemy. In a dictatorship, you hear what the dictator lets you hear. So if Saddam tells his people he's a hero and the USA is evil, how can the people who don't know he's lying find out the truth? And even when they're presented with the truth, why would they accept it as truth if they've been programmed to think it's a lie?
If you've been taught not to trust a certain society for your entire life, would you trust that society if their troops came into your country? Even if the cause is noble and they kept telling you they were here to help you, would you believe them?
Brainwashing and propaganda is a very effective and very old method of achieving victory - it may even be older than me. The insurgents and every other terrorist out there have been brainwashed from an early age, and they continue to do so to others. There's no other prominent voice from within telling them "these insurgents/terrorists are fucking nuts! Don't listen to them!" That's why whenever an insurgent is killed, another one is ready to take his place. Because the myth these psychos create about themselves and other people doesn't die as easily as a person.
And I don't know what the United States has ever really done to counter this brainwashing, if anything. They may not even know how.
Come to think of it, I don't think the US has ever spent much time trying to figure out what makes the Middle East and the many societies within tick. Perhaps if they had...well, who knows what might be different?
But if they find a way, they may be able to break what may become an endless cycle of violence. It might be the only way the US can truly win the war on terror - by preventing the creation of new terrorists. And in order to do that, they need to destroy the lies and break through the propaganda walls.
Last edited by Methos; 2005-08-31 9:52 PM.
"Just because I don't like to fight doesn't mean that I can't."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,233 Likes: 1
Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
|
|
Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,233 Likes: 1 |
The only difference between a freedom fighter and a terrorist, as best I see it, depends on the outcome and who writes the history.
French resistance to Nazi occupation = freedom fighter.
Palestinian resistance to Israeli occupation = terrorist.
Difference between the two in reality = nil.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
|
|
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7 |
Amazingly enough, I have to agree with Dave here.
However, I do find the distinct difference that modern terrorists target innocent civilians whilst those resistances were both response to military occupation rather concerning. So I'm kind of a swing voter.
Last edited by Pariah; 2005-09-01 12:12 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,203
betrayal and collapse 5000+ posts
|
|
betrayal and collapse 5000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,203 |
When have the French ever resisted anything, militarily speaking?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,657
1500+ posts
|
|
OP
1500+ posts
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,657 |
Quote:
theory9 said:
When have the French ever resisted anything, militarily speaking?
Well, there was the Algerian Civil War, the conflict in Indochine, WW II ( sorry that Maginot thing didn't work out)! Ahh, they were one of the gracious hosts of the Great War, Russia being the other. The Siege of Paris (no resistance, no siege! Duh!). Then there was that Napolean character who did, along with his countrymen, quite a lot of conquering and resisting. There is quite a bit more of French resisting, all the way back to Julius Ceaser and the Gaelic wars.
But other than that, the French have resisted nothing.
"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives." John Stuart Mill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. Oscar Wilde
He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless dead.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
|
|
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203 |
Quote:
Pariah said:
Amazingly enough, I have to agree with Dave here.
However, I do find the distinct difference that modern terrorists target innocent civilians whilst those resistances were both response to military occupation rather concerning. So I'm kind of a swing voter.
but you have to understand that they see the west as having been an occupying invader for several decades.
sometimes it's as stupid as building mcdonalds and importing rock music, other times it's legitimate like mucking in governments and supporting oppressive regimes.
Bow ties are coool.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,153
Unbreakable 3000+ posts
|
|
Unbreakable 3000+ posts
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,153 |
Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
In theory I'd like to think that a Freedom Fighter is someone who targets primarily oppressive governments and a terrorist is someone who intentionally targets noncombant civilians.
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
both have the same goals, just different beliefs in how to carry them out. The modern islamic terrorists started by just targeting the corrupt governments, but then felt the people's lack of support made them just as guilty.
so, essentially it's all a matter of what they consider "innocent."
Also, keep in mind, they all see it as war. When we bombed Germany and Iraq we bombed innocents as well as the military. It didn't matter in war time to us.
In Germany and Iraq, innocents were "collateral damage," not the primary target.
Actually, Arthur "Bomber" Harris, chief of Royal Air Force Bomber Command during WWII, did indeed want to bomb civilians. He thought that it would break the moral of the German population. However, it just made the Germans more willing to fight. USA tried first to only bomb strategic targets such as factories and military targets, but around 1944, USAAF adopted the British strategy. USA also bombed Tokyo and other Japanese towns, with houses mainly built with wood, with incendiary bomb (which killed more than the A-bombs over Hiroshima and Nagasaki).
"Batman is only meaningful as an answer to a world which in its basics is chaotic and in the hands of the wrong people, where no justice can be found. I think it's very suitable to our perception of the world's condition today... Batman embodies the will to resist evil" -Frank Miller
"Conan, what's the meaning of life?"
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!"
-Conan the Barbarian
"Well, yeah."
-Jason E. Perkins
"If I had a dime for every time Pariah was right about something I'd owe twenty cents."
-Ultimate Jaburg53
"Fair enough. I defer to your expertise."
-Prometheus
Rack MisterJLA!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,153
Unbreakable 3000+ posts
|
|
Unbreakable 3000+ posts
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,153 |
Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Kennedy never had a war.
The Vietnam war, as we know it, for all intents and purposes, began under Kennedy, in 1961.
That's debateble. Some say it was Ike Eisenhower who started it. This is an academical question for the Vietnamese, since USA just continued France's war.
Not that I'm defending JFK or anything.
"Batman is only meaningful as an answer to a world which in its basics is chaotic and in the hands of the wrong people, where no justice can be found. I think it's very suitable to our perception of the world's condition today... Batman embodies the will to resist evil" -Frank Miller
"Conan, what's the meaning of life?"
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!"
-Conan the Barbarian
"Well, yeah."
-Jason E. Perkins
"If I had a dime for every time Pariah was right about something I'd owe twenty cents."
-Ultimate Jaburg53
"Fair enough. I defer to your expertise."
-Prometheus
Rack MisterJLA!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
|
|
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203 |
Quote:
Captain Sweden said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Kennedy never had a war.
The Vietnam war, as we know it, for all intents and purposes, began under Kennedy, in 1961.
That's debateble. Some say it was Ike Eisenhower who started it. This is an academical question for the Vietnamese, since USA just continued France's war.
Not that I'm defending JFK or anything.
Eisenhower sent in the first troops, though granted he didn't intend for it to be a war. And JFK started to withdraw the troops before his death.
If anything, it was Johnson's war.
Bow ties are coool.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,657
1500+ posts
|
|
OP
1500+ posts
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,657 |
Quote:
Captain Sweden said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
In theory I'd like to think that a Freedom Fighter is someone who targets primarily oppressive governments and a terrorist is someone who intentionally targets noncombant civilians.
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
both have the same goals, just different beliefs in how to carry them out. The modern islamic terrorists started by just targeting the corrupt governments, but then felt the people's lack of support made them just as guilty.
so, essentially it's all a matter of what they consider "innocent."
Also, keep in mind, they all see it as war. When we bombed Germany and Iraq we bombed innocents as well as the military. It didn't matter in war time to us.
In Germany and Iraq, innocents were "collateral damage," not the primary target.
Actually, Arthur "Bomber" Harris, chief of Royal Air Force Bomber Command during WWII, did indeed want to bomb civilians. He thought that it would break the moral of the German population. However, it just made the Germans more willing to fight. USA tried first to only bomb strategic targets such as factories and military targets, but around 1944, USAAF adopted the British strategy. USA also bombed Tokyo and other Japanese towns, with houses mainly built with wood, with incendiary bomb (which killed more than the A-bombs over Hiroshima and Nagasaki).
You underestamate the viciousness of Gen. Harris. In in Dresden, a town with no military value, USA & UK created a firestorm, which either incinerates or suffocates all that are near. USA did the same to Tokyo.
"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives." John Stuart Mill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. Oscar Wilde
He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless dead.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,801
terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
|
|
terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,801 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,801
terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
|
|
terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,801 |
The firestorm, I am pretty sure, was not purely intentional. I don't think they could have predicted the degree to which the winds would have generated the inferno that resulted. Sure, they set out to burn some buildings. But I doubt they knew the Dresden firestorm was even possible beforehand, much less intended it to happen. Of course, I don't have access to all the information on the Dresden raids, so you're more than welcome to correct me if I'm wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
|
|
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7 |
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
but you have to understand that they see the west as having been an occupying invader for several decades.
sometimes it's as stupid as building mcdonalds and importing rock music, other times it's legitimate like mucking in governments and supporting oppressive regimes.
Whether their convictions hold water or not does not give this excuse any sort of merit. Our government fucked with higher ups, we didn't go out and target civilians for suicide bombings.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
|
|
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203 |
Quote:
Pariah said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
but you have to understand that they see the west as having been an occupying invader for several decades.
sometimes it's as stupid as building mcdonalds and importing rock music, other times it's legitimate like mucking in governments and supporting oppressive regimes.
Whether their convictions hold water or not does not give this excuse any sort of merit. Our government fucked with higher ups, we didn't go out and target civilians for suicide bombings.
and you don't think that fucking with a government has any effect on the average citizen of a country?
it's all wrong. you can't justify coups for oil rights anymore than you can justify suicide bombing.
Bow ties are coool.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
|
|
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
[QUOTE]you can't justify coups for oil rights [/QUOTE]
At this point that theory has been so discredited, even your casual use of it discredits even those valid points you just made.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
|
|
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203 |
Quote:
the G-man said:
[QUOTE]you can't justify coups for oil rights [/QUOTE]
At this point that theory has been so discredited, even your casual use of it discredits even those valid points you just made.
not if you look at the CIA's history, especially in Iran.
Bow ties are coool.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,747
I've got more guns than you. 6000+ posts
|
|
I've got more guns than you. 6000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,747 |
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
[QUOTE]you can't justify coups for oil rights [/QUOTE]
At this point that theory has been so discredited, even your casual use of it discredits even those valid points you just made.
not if you look at the CIA's history, especially in Iran.
.... Mr. Adler speaks the truth.
"Ah good. Now I'm on the internet clearly saying I like tranny cleavage. This shouldn't get me harassed at all." -- Lothar of the Hill People
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
|
|
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
I'm speaking specifically of the current war.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,747
I've got more guns than you. 6000+ posts
|
|
I've got more guns than you. 6000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,747 |
Ah, in that case, I revoke my previous statement. Good day. 
"Ah good. Now I'm on the internet clearly saying I like tranny cleavage. This shouldn't get me harassed at all." -- Lothar of the Hill People
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
|
|
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203 |
Quote:
the G-man said:
I'm speaking specifically of the current war.
but you were responding to my post, and I was speaking about the total history (which does effect our current situations). and if you meant just the current iraq war then you should have said so.
moderator moderate thyself.
Bow ties are coool.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
|
|
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
The moderator misunderstood you. I thought you were also speaking specifically of the current war.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,747
I've got more guns than you. 6000+ posts
|
|
I've got more guns than you. 6000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,747 |
Quote:
Moderator, moderate thyself!
I think it's going into my sig. You mind, R3x?
"Ah good. Now I'm on the internet clearly saying I like tranny cleavage. This shouldn't get me harassed at all." -- Lothar of the Hill People
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
|
|
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203 |
Quote:
PCG342 said:
Quote:
Moderator, moderate thyself!
I think it's going into my sig. You mind, R3x?
as long as it doesn't go in Mister JLA's sig, then I'm okay with it.
Bow ties are coool.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,657
1500+ posts
|
|
OP
1500+ posts
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,657 |
Quote:
the G-man said:
[QUOTE]you can't justify coups for oil rights [/QUOTE]
At this point that theory has been so discredited, even your casual use of it discredits even those valid points you just made.
When and by whom was this theory discredited? And you'd better not tell me yesterday by BSAMS!
"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives." John Stuart Mill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. Oscar Wilde
He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless dead.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
|
|
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7 |
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
and you don't think that fucking with a government has any effect on the average citizen of a country?
it's all wrong. you can't justify coups for oil rights anymore than you can justify suicide bombing.
In the case of the Middle East, they only fucked themselves up when we did a regime switch. In fact, Ayatollah was the only one holding the most extreme grudge for the incorportion of the west into their society.
|
|
|
|
|
