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Poll: Most Say Abandon Low-Lying AreasMore than half the people in this country say the flooded areas of New Orleans lying below sea level should be abandoned and rebuilt on higher ground.
An AP-Ipsos poll found that 54 percent of Americans want the vast sections of New Orleans that were flooded by Hurricane Katrina moved to a safer location. About 80 percent of the city was flooded at the height of the flood. The city, home to about 484,000 people, sits six feet below sea level on average.
The fate of the flood-prone areas of the city is an open question. The aid pricetag already runs tens of billions of dollars. In the days after the hurricane, House Speaker Dennis Hastert suggested the worst-flooded areas should be bulldozed and moved to higher ground.
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scary stuff.....I remember reading No Man's Land and saying how improbable that was.......a strong case could be made for that here.
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Quote:
PJP said:
scary stuff.....I remember reading No Man's Land and saying how improbable that was.......a strong case could be made for that here.
I was thinking the exact same thing.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Poll: Most Say Abandon Low-Lying Areas
More than half the people in this country say the flooded areas of New Orleans lying below sea level should be abandoned and rebuilt on higher ground.
An AP-Ipsos poll found that 54 percent of Americans want the vast sections of New Orleans that were flooded by Hurricane Katrina moved to a safer location. About 80 percent of the city was flooded at the height of the flood. The city, home to about 484,000 people, sits six feet below sea level on average.
The fate of the flood-prone areas of the city is an open question. The aid pricetag already runs tens of billions of dollars. In the days after the hurricane, House Speaker Dennis Hastert suggested the worst-flooded areas should be bulldozed and moved to higher ground.
Clearly, 54% of Americans do not own the property in question. It's not a popularity contest.
"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives." John Stuart Mill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. Oscar Wilde
He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless dead.
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But how much money the federal goverment gives the area is a function of decisions made by the elected represenatives of the U.S., a majority of whose constituents, if you believe that poll, don't want it rebuilt.
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Beleaguered FEMA Chief Reassigned
Questions Raised About Brown's Resume, Experience
By PETE YOST, AP
APMichael Brown's lack of experience raises questions about how rigorously the White House vetted him before he got top FEMA job.
WASHINGTON (Sept. 9) - Federal Emergency Management Agency Director Michael Brown is being removed from his role managing Hurricane Katrina relief efforts, The Associated Press has learned.
Brown is being sent back to Washington from Baton Rouge, where he was the primary official overseeing the federal government's response to the disaster, according to two federal officials who declined to be identified before the announcement.
Brown faces questions about whether he padded his resume detailing his experience in emergency preparedness.
A 2001 press release on the White House Web site says that Brown worked for the city of Edmond, Okla., from 1975 to 1978 "overseeing emergency services divisions."
Brown's official biography on the FEMA Web site says that his background in state and local government also includes serving as "an assistant city manager with emergency services oversight" and as a city councilman.
But a former mayor of Edmond, Randel Shadid, told The Associated Press on Friday that Brown had been an assistant to the city manager. Shadid said Brown was never assistant city manager.
"I think there's a difference between the two positions," said Shadid. "I would think that is a discrepancy."
Asked later about the White House news release that said Brown oversaw Edmond's emergency services divisions, Shadid said, "I don't think that's a total stretch."
Time magazine first reported the discrepancy.
Separately, Newsday reported another discrepancy regarding Brown's background. The official White House announcement of Brown's nomination to head FEMA in January 2003 lists his previous experience as "the Executive Director of the Independent Electrical Contractors," a trade group based in Alexandria, Va.
Two officials of the group told Newsday this week that Brown never was the national head of the group but did serve as the executive director of a regional chapter, based in Colorado.
Brown has become a primary target of criticism that the federal government responded too slowly to Hurricane Katrina, with many calls for his dismissal.
Regarding the discrepancy about his job in Oklahoma, Claudia Deakins, head of public relations for the city of Edmond, said, "According to our personnel records, Mike Brown was an assistant to the city manager from 1977 to 1980. I can't speak to his role in the organization or the structure of the organization at the time because I wasn't here."
A longtime acquaintance, Carl Reherman, said Brown was very involved in helping set up an emergency operations center in Edmond and assisting in the creation of an emergency contingency plan in the 1970s, while Brown was working for the city manager. At the time, Reherman was a city councilman, and later became mayor.
Reherman said the emergency plan that Brown worked on dealt with potential natural disasters such as tornados and manmade disasters since Tinker Air Force Base and a commercial airport are nearby and a rail line passes through the downtown.
"From my experience with Mike, he not only worked very hard on everything he did, he had very high standards," said Reherman, who also knew Brown when he was a student taking classes from Reherman, who was a professor of political science at Central State University.
"I'm an old Democrat and Mike's a Republican, so we got into a lot of discussions," said Reherman.
Nicol Andrews, deputy strategic director in FEMA's office of public affairs, told Time that while Brown began as an intern, he became an "assistant city manager" with a distinguished record of service.
"According to Mike Brown," Andrews told Time, a large portion of points raised by the magazine are "very inaccurate."
White House press secretary Scott McClellan referred all questions about Brown's resume to FEMA.
McClellan said the White House's earlier statements that Brown retained the president's confidence remain true _ but he declined to state that confidence outright.
"I'd leave it where I left it," McClellan said. "We appreciate the work of all those who have been working around the clock to respond to what has been on the worst natural disasters in our nation's history."
Associated Press reporter Richard Green on Oklahoma City, Okla., contributed to this report.
9/9/2005 13:15:35
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Quote:
the G-man said:
But how much money the federal goverment gives the area is a function of decisions made by the elected represenatives of the U.S., a majority of whose constituents, if you believe that poll, don't want it rebuilt.
Do you think any elections outside of Louisiana and Mississippi are going to turn on this question? It's not even a large majority and subject to all kinds of error. By Nov. 2006, the public will be on to other nonsense to worry about. Katrina will arouse cries of 'Who?'.
What do you think the proper course is?
"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives." John Stuart Mill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. Oscar Wilde
He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless dead.
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Well, even though the question was addressed to G-man, I guess I'd finally like to make a comment about this.
It's aweful to have to think about buldozing parts of New Orleans, but I don't know that there is much of a choice. If it is economically and physically possible to rebuild the city on higher ground, then I think that's the course of action that should be taken. There is so much that needs to be rebuilt, so why not rebuild in a safer location? Other factors need to be considered before anything is rebuilt, like how to bolster the levees around the city to better protect it from future disasters. I think that before anything is rebuilt, the levee issue needs to be resolved first. It doesn't make sense to build a house without first building a solid foundation. The Levees are the foundation of New Orleans. Before the city can be rebuilt, it's foundation must be rebuilt better than it was before. I think part of the solution may be to move to higher ground, because maybe that would save money on the levees themselves. I really don't know. The city must be rebuilt, but it needs to be done right. That's all I really have to say about that.
<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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Quote:
magicjay38 said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
But how much money the federal goverment gives the area is a function of decisions made by the elected represenatives of the U.S., a majority of whose constituents, if you believe that poll, don't want it rebuilt.
Do you think any elections outside of Louisiana and Mississippi are going to turn on this question? It's not even a large majority and subject to all kinds of error. By Nov. 2006, the public will be on to other nonsense to worry about. Katrina will arouse cries of 'Who?'.
What do you think the proper course is?
which is so weird, when you consider there was about 5+ times the death as 9/11.
Bow ties are coool.
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I can't post to the other thread so I'm going to post this info here. Hopefully Gman will post it to the other thread for me. As one of the Daves said, be sure to donate money to a reputable organization. To research charities use the following sites: give.org (the BBBs charity side) justgive.org charitynavigator.org As for charities, my list includes: AmeriCares.org they're a smaller version of the Red Cross. They are one of our charities and they are down there now. We have cards that are designated specifically for Katrina relief efforts. If you are interested in seeing and or purchasing the cards, PM me and I'll give you the info. Sorry but I'd rather not give the info to everyone for security reasons. Convoyofhope.org I helped a woman on a local freecycle group by donating some pots and pans. Her husband drove their RV down to MS and it's been a comand center of sorts. I just found out about this one from my church. www.katrinaresponse.net
It's a rented tux ok? I'm not going comando in another man's fatigues.
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
King Snarf said:
I just find it funny that when people fly planes into buildings, the government jumps into action, eventually coming together like a well-oiled machine to be provide both relief efforts and attempts at retribution, yet when a hurricane, a weather phenomenon that people have known about for decades if not centuries, hits, the government seems to be sitting on their hands. Hmmm...
For god's sake, we're the RICHEST FUCKING COUNTRY IN THE WORLD and we have THIRD WORLD NATIONS OFFERING HANDOUTS!!! To quote Cordelia Chase from Angel Season 5, "What frickin' Bizarro World did I wake up in???"
The governemtn is sitting on it's hands? Who do you think is orchastrating the evacuations and running the shelters at the stadiums and who do you think is planning on re-building the city?
And a bang up job they've been doing, too....
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
All hail King Snarf!
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The fact they may or may not be doing a good job is, however, a different question than whether they are "sitting on their hands" and doing nothing.
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Well, they took their sweet time in getting on the job....
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
All hail King Snarf!
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Quote:
King Snarf said:
Well, they took their sweet time in getting on the job....
Unfortunately they didn't have the advantage of your leadership. Hindsight is alwayse 20/20 and it's easier to blame people than to do something. This was teh WORST natural disaster in the history of the country. They didn't exactly have precendent to work from. Not that I'm saying you woiuldn't have done a far superior job. Perrish the thought!
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
" I know God exists because WBAM told me so. " - theory9
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
King Snarf said:
Well, they took their sweet time in getting on the job....
Unfortunately they didn't have the advantage of your leadership. Hindsight is alwayse 20/20 and it's easier to blame people than to do something. This was teh WORST natural disaster in the history of the country. They didn't exactly have precendent to work from. Not that I'm saying you woiuldn't have done a far superior job. Perrish the thought!
It may have been the worst but Andrew was certainly a good practice run. 1989 Loma Prieta quake got the state prepared for the far worse Northridge quake just a few years later. Preparation for those occaisional disasters began in 1905. It can be done.
"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives." John Stuart Mill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. Oscar Wilde
He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless dead.
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 "Government is not the solution, Government is the problem." President Ronald Reagan campaigning for President in 1980 That is the reason we were not prepared, for the levee breaking, for the flooding and the abandonment of a hundred thousand poor blacks in New Orleans. That central ideology of conservative Republicans was reinforced further when Newt Gingrich took the House in 1994, and then the Senate a few years later. Voting irregularities in Florida brought in George W. Bush as president with less votes than his Democratic opponent which gave the "hate the government" crowd control of all branches of government. In 2001 when George Bush and the Republican Congress passed the first of the tax breaks for the wealthy, the director of the Corp of Engineers resigned in protest regarding the specific defunding of fixing the leeve's in New Orleans, and a few months later followed the protest resignation of the Director of FEMA for defunding that organization too. If you watched FOX News, or listened to AM radio, or took notice of what conservatives politicians and pundits were dishing out this week, you could easily see how transparent they were in changing the subject from the abject failure of all levels of government TO the bad, horrid, lawless, looting, shooting, raping, murdering "NIGGERS". Will they get away with it? They sure were successful earlier in the week. Gosh, everyone I talked to began with saying how awful the looting was. But after five days of literally no response, it finally looks as if the long awaited turnaround back to the middle may be upon us. One last note on this. I have been doing too much research on Intelligent Design lately, I have so much of that crap in my head its shooting out my ass in large smelly chunks. When you find out who is funding it and who is running it, it is even more dishonest and silly than the standard old Young Earth creationism. I watched some idiot in Mississippi standing on a pile of rubble that was once his home, thanking God. Then I saw a thousand people squashed to death under a bridge in Iraq on their way to thank God. Well, if these Intelligent Design people are right, its time to put out an APB on this Designer, arrest him, try him for genocide, and nail the SOB to a tree. DAMN RIGHT!
"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives." John Stuart Mill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. Oscar Wilde
He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless dead.
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I just got this email from my uncle you lives in Gulfport. He's evacuated the last few hurricanes, including this one, mainly due to his wife's nagging and his grandkids. He's sat out many a previous hurricane including Camile: Quote:
Hello Everyone,
This is to let everyone know that we are all alive and well. None of my family is missing or injuried. Everything else is of less importance. Most of us had evacuated to a family member's house in North Mississippi just prior to Katrina's arrival - the rest will in the future. Telephone contact has been next to impossible for calling in or out - even on cell phones but is improving fast. I know a lot of you tried desperately to make contact just before and right after the storm hit and found it impossible. About the only communication since the storm has been text messaging and that has been sparodic. I do not yet have the capability of reading or responding to email. I ran a line 500 feet to a neighbors working telephone to get this message out. Thanks to a large tree, the telephone line for my house is missing in action. Our house survived. We had minimal structural damage (one window in shop, garage door, ridge vents, screens, soffit, trees, etc.). We did get flooded with about two feet of water in the garage and shop and about 8-10" in the rest of the house. We still have a house that is in surprisingly good shape. See attached photo. We've lost a lot of stuff. But, it's just "stuff". We will get more stuff.
We have everything necessary to survive - thanks to some dear friends that came to the rescue with a generator and gas - two critical items that did required an armed guard. I've "been here - done this" before. I even have the "T-shirt" - so I was about as prepared when I came back to town as anyone. We are currently running a mini-refuge camp. Our house is the only one (within my family) that did survive and/or is livable. It's easy to put a lot of people in a house after you throw everything else out. I have four families in one house but that is more than a lot of other folks have at the moment. One family is moving tomorrow to a rental property that I own that survived. Another person left town a couple of days ago. Things are starting to get better - even if it is by the inch. We are good. We have been blessed.
Do not believe all of the negative coverage you see on TV. This was a bad storm and as bad as it is being reported, it is probably worse than the news coverage you are viewing can even make the public understand. But the response by the government and the various agencies has been outstanding. There has been glitches and there will be more, but not all of the criticism I saw on TV is totally justified. Water and Ice came almost immediately and food followed soon after. We got power back in our area yesterday afternoon. As of tonight 82% of the customers that are capable of receiving power have it back on. Six days ago it was 0%. After Camile hit the coast in 1969, it was 4 1/2 weeks before I saw a power truck working near my house. A lot of the bad publicity is coming from New Orleans and from a few people that sit on their ass waiting for someone to hand them something. During a disaster of this magnitude, you make things happen..... by doing them yourself. Anyone criticising the response has forgotten the lessons of Camile - or was too young to remember - or has never been to war. The coast looks like it was hit by an atomic bomb. An atomic bomb would probably require less resources and would not have been as wide-spread.
I have been south of the tracks. I went there before it was sealed off. It's not pretty. It's total destruction - almost beyond comprehension. Tidal surge exceeded Camile by several feet and wave heights of over 82 feet was recorded on the three data bouy's in the Gulf just South of Gulfport. Nothing much can stand up to that kind of force. We have only one local TV station up and running and no cable so you see pictures we do not - but you would have to be here in person to get the real feel for this one. It's bad and it's dangerous. It's like a war zone with everyone armed. But, it is getting better... day by day. With power restored, a few stores are back in operation as well as a few gas stations. Life is good.
I've had very little time to take photo's except for documenting my own losses, but will try to send some when I get my phone line back up. I have a few more things to take take care of before I can go sight-seeing. In the meantime, I just wanted to let everyone know we are ok and have everything we need to get by. It's also a perfect time to thank everyone that has tried desperately to contact us to see if we are ok and to offer assistance. I still have all of my family and all of my friends. What else could I possibly need? There are many other people that are not as fortunate........sure messed up the fishing...........Joe
If anyone needs your prayers, it's this guy. Not only is his wife and adopted son in that house, but he has his best friend, his ex-wife, his son and new daughter-in-law, the ex-daughter-in-law with the three kids, and various pets that don't get along.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Quote:
magicjay38 said:
"Government is not the solution, Government is the problem." President Ronald Reagan campaigning for President in 1980
That is the reason we were not prepared, for the levee breaking, for the flooding and the abandonment of a hundred thousand poor blacks in New Orleans. That central ideology of conservative Republicans was reinforced further when Newt Gingrich took the House in 1994, and then the Senate a few years later. Voting irregularities in Florida brought in George W. Bush as president with less votes than his Democratic opponent which gave the "hate the government" crowd control of all branches of government.
In 2001 when George Bush and the Republican Congress passed the first of the tax breaks for the wealthy, the director of the Corp of Engineers resigned in protest regarding the specific defunding of fixing the leeve's in New Orleans, and a few months later followed the protest resignation of the Director of FEMA for defunding that organization too.
If you watched FOX News, or listened to AM radio, or took notice of what conservatives politicians and pundits were dishing out this week, you could easily see how transparent they were in changing the subject from the abject failure of all levels of government TO the bad, horrid, lawless, looting, shooting, raping, murdering "NIGGERS".
Will they get away with it? They sure were successful earlier in the week. Gosh, everyone I talked to began with saying how awful the looting was. But after five days of literally no response, it finally looks as if the long awaited turnaround back to the middle may be upon us.
Twenty some years ago, I was sitting around my frat house watching the first Superman film on TV. As college students do, we started debating whether Superman was a Democrat or Republican.
The debate ended when, in the midst of the earthquake scene, I announced "Superman is a Republican. If he were a Democrat, he'd think he could stop the earthquake by throwing money at it."
I am reminded of that joke when I read posts like the one above.
One could create an entire thread explaining why all of the above is wrong. In fact, if you look at the "Who's to Blame for Hurricane Katrina" thread, someone did.
However, as has been noted, on that thread and elsewhere, all the government in the country didn't prevent this. In fact, one could argue that big government was the problem, not the solution.
From Louisiana politicians spending their infrastructure money on other projects to a Mayor who didn't bother to effectuate his own, standing, plan to evacuate the people on school buses when he the chance, to a federal goverment that kept volunteer emergency personnel out of the area until they had "sensitivity training," every thing that happened here has tended to reinforce EXACTLY what Reagan meant 25 years ago: that a bloated, entrenched, federal government doesn't solve our problems, no matter how much money you throw at it.
Last edited by the G-man; 2005-09-12 2:57 PM.
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Your Superman analogy/joke is flawed--politicians period throw money at problems.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
magicjay38 said:
"Government is not the solution, Government is the problem." President Ronald Reagan campaigning for President in 1980
That is the reason we were not prepared, for the levee breaking, for the flooding and the abandonment of a hundred thousand poor blacks in New Orleans. That central ideology of conservative Republicans was reinforced further when Newt Gingrich took the House in 1994, and then the Senate a few years later. Voting irregularities in Florida brought in George W. Bush as president with less votes than his Democratic opponent which gave the "hate the government" crowd control of all branches of government.
In 2001 when George Bush and the Republican Congress passed the first of the tax breaks for the wealthy, the director of the Corp of Engineers resigned in protest regarding the specific defunding of fixing the leeve's in New Orleans, and a few months later followed the protest resignation of the Director of FEMA for defunding that organization too.
If you watched FOX News, or listened to AM radio, or took notice of what conservatives politicians and pundits were dishing out this week, you could easily see how transparent they were in changing the subject from the abject failure of all levels of government TO the bad, horrid, lawless, looting, shooting, raping, murdering "NIGGERS".
Will they get away with it? They sure were successful earlier in the week. Gosh, everyone I talked to began with saying how awful the looting was. But after five days of literally no response, it finally looks as if the long awaited turnaround back to the middle may be upon us.
Twenty some years ago, I was sitting around my frat house watching the first Superman film on TV. As college students do, we started debating whether Superman was a Democrat or Republican.
The debate ended when, in the midst of the earthquake scene, I announced "Superman is a Republican. If he were a Democrat, he'd think he could stop the earthquake by throwing money at it."
I am reminded of that joke when I read posts like the one above.
One could create an entire thread explaining why all of the above is wrong. In fact, if you look at the "Who's to Blame for Hurricane Katrina" thread, someone did.
However, as has been noted, on that thread and elsewhere, all the government in the country didn't prevent this. In fact, one could argue that big government was the problem, not the solution.
From Louisiana politicians spending their infrastructure money on other projects to a Mayor who didn't bother to effectuate his own, standing, plan to evacuate the people on school buses when he the chance, to a federal goverment that kept volunteer emergency personnel out of the area until they had "sensitivity training," every thing that happened here has tended to reinforce EXACTLY what Reagan meant 25 years ago: that a bloated, entrenched, federal government doesn't solve our problems, no matter how much money you throw at it.
Once again you've changed the subject. What you and your rent-a-friends thought 20 years ago has nothing to do with the topic. What was said on another thread has nothing to do wiith this. I said:
1. The levees were not improved as planned.
2. Said planned improvements were cancelled do to budget cuts mandated by the Republican government.
3. Had the levees not failed the damage to New Orleans would have been greatly reduced.
The actions or corruption were never addressed in my statement. Thanks again G-man for rebutting something I never said in the first place.
Were you a boxer in college? You've got the bob and weave thing down really well. Do you ever sting like a bee?
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Quote:
Mercenaries guard homes of the rich in New Orleans
Jamie Wilson in New Orleans
Monday September 12, 2005
The Guardian
Hundreds of mercenaries have descended on New Orleans to guard the property of the city's millionaires from looters.
The heavily armed men, employed by private military companies including Blackwater and ISI, are part of the militarisation of a city which had a reputation for being one of the most relaxed and easy-going in America.
After scenes of looting and lawlessness in the days immediately after Hurricane Katrina struck, New Orleans has turned into an armed camp, patrolled by thousands of local, state and federal law enforcement officers, as well as 70,000 national guard troops and active-duty soldiers now based in the region.
Blackwater, one of the fastest-growing private security firms in the world, which achieved global prominence last year when four of its men were killed and their bodies mutilated in the Iraqi city of Falluja, has set up camp in the back garden of a vast mansion in the wealthy Uptown district of the city.
David Reagan, 52, a semi-retired US army colonel from Huntsville, Alabama, who fought in the first Gulf war and is commander of Blackwater's operations in the city, refused to say how many men he had in New Orleans but indicated it was in the hundreds.
Asked if they had encountered many looters so far, Mr Reagan said that the sight of his heavily armed men - a pump action shotgun was propped against the wall near to where he was standing - was enough to put most people off.
Two Israeli mercenaries from ISI, another private military company, were guarding Audubon Place, a gated community. Wearing bulletproof vests, they were carrying M16 assault rifles.
Gill, 40, and Yovi, 42, who refused to give their surnames, said they were army veterans of the Israeli war in Lebanon, but had been living in Houston for 17 years. They had been hired by Jimmy Reiss, a descendant of an old New Orleans family who made his fortune selling electronic systems to shipbuilders. They had been flown by private jet to Baton Rouge, the capital of Louisiana, and then helicoptered to Audubon Place, they said.
"I spoke to one of the other owners on the telephone earlier in the week," Yovi said. "I told him how the water had stopped just at the back gate. God watches out for the rich people, I guess."
"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives." John Stuart Mill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. Oscar Wilde
He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless dead.
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Quote:
Once again you've changed the subject....The actions or corruption were never addressed in my statement.
Things don't happen in a vaccum. At the same time you can't say decree a cause and effect relationship if you haven't isolated the other variables.
In the case at hand, there were many variables that did or may have contributed to what happened here. The fact you chose not to discuss them does not mean they didn't happen or were insignificant.
More importantly, however, they were all actions of government. Which tends to prove, not disprove, that government is--at least in many cases--the problem, not the solution.
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devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Twenty some years ago, I was sitting around my frat house watching the first Superman film on TV. As college students do, we started debating whether Superman was a Democrat or Republican.
Really boring college students, you mean.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Twenty some years ago, I was sitting around my frat house watching the first Superman film on TV. As college students do, we started debating whether Superman was a Democrat or Republican.
Quote:
Im Not Mister Mxypltk said:
Really boring college students, you mean.
Hey, we were frat boys. We couldn't spend 24 hours a day chasing small nosed sorority girls, hazing pledges and spraying warm beer on foreign students and homosexuals. We needed a little down time in between our road trips to see Otis Day and the Nights, etc.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Once again you've changed the subject....The actions or corruption were never addressed in my statement.
Things don't happen in a vaccum. At the same time you can't say decree a cause and effect relationship if you haven't isolated the other variables.
In the case at hand, there were many variables that did or may have contributed to what happened here. The fact you chose not to discuss them does not mean they didn't happen or were insignificant.
More importantly, however, they were all actions of government. Which tends to prove, not disprove, that government is--at least in many cases--the problem, not the solution.
Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah
I'm still waiting for that 'sting like a bee' part. I thought 'doublespeak' was a term created by Orwell to describe Stalinism. Seems like the lesson of the Bolsheviks was not lost on American conservatives.
This is a true statement:
The Bush Administration cut funding for improvements on the levees to support tax cuts which benefited the wealthiest 5% of Americans. When Katrina struck those levees could not hold back the storm surge. They failed. This was a major contibutor to the destruction that befell the City of New Orleans. Had the recommended improvements been made the disaster may have been greatly reduced.
Since you haven't disputed it, I'll assume you accept it as true.
"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives." John Stuart Mill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. Oscar Wilde
He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless dead.
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Fair Play! 15000+ posts
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Looks like they finally got rid of Brown. Hopefully future FEMA people will be picked for their credentials & not for being really good at fundraising. 
Fair play!
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Quote:
magicjay38 said:
This is a true statement:
Actually it is at best misleading and at worst very misleading:
Quote:
The Bush Administration cut funding for improvements on the levees
Not the levees that broke (see below).
Quote:
to support tax cuts
You act as if Bush said "let's cut this particular program even though I, George W, know it will cause a flood." I think we both know that didn't happen.
I think we both also know that Congress, including the Democratic members from La., didn't do anything to put this money back in the budget.
All the President does is propose a budget. Congress then votes on it. If Bush is at fault, then every member of congress, including the Democrats who didn't fight to put his money back in, are at fault also.
Quote:
which benefited the wealthiest 5% of Americans.
The tax cut also benefitted the middle class. From non-partisan Factcheck.org:
nearly 75% of all families [received a tax cut in 2004] from the two tax bills signed into law by President Bush in 2001 and 2002. The amounts vary widely, but the average is $1,217 Even families making only $20,000 to $30,000 a year are getting an average cut this year of $638. And 98.4% of that group -- "middle-class" by almost anybody's standards -- are getting some tax reduction
Quote:
When Katrina struck those levees could not hold back the storm surge. They failed. This was a major contibutor to the destruction that befell the City of New Orleans. Had the recommended improvements been made the disaster may have been greatly reduced.
The Chicago Tribune has a story that says otherwise, that the portions that broke were designed and completed prior to Bush ever taking office:
The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers said Thursday that a lack of funding for hurricane-protection projects around New Orleans did not contribute to the disastrous flooding that followed Hurricane Katrina.
In a telephone interview with reporters, corps officials said that although portions of the flood-protection levees remain incomplete, the levees near Lake Pontchartrain that gave way--inundating much of the city--were completed and in good condition before the hurricane.
However, they noted that the levees were designed for a Category 3 hurricane and couldn't handle the ferocious winds and raging waters from Hurricane Katrina, which was a Category 4 storm when it hit the coastline. The decision to build levees for a Category 3 hurricane was made decades ago based on a cost-benefit analysis.
In other words, Bush's tax cuts didn't effect the flooding one damn bit. The part of the levee that broke didn't have any of its funding cut by Bush.
Quote:
Since you haven't disputed it, I'll assume you accept it as true.
A better assumption is that a lot of your posts aren't worth responding to. Especially the ones that engage in petty name-calling and school yard taunts.
So, to wrap up: nearly everything you "true statement" is wrong.
How's that for a "sting", "Sonny"?
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Quote:
magicjay38 said:
I'm still waiting for that 'sting like a bee' part. I thought 'doublespeak' was a term created by Orwell to describe Stalinism. Seems like the lesson of the Bolsheviks was not lost on American conservatives.
This is a true statement:
The Bush Administration cut funding for improvements on the levees to support tax cuts which benefited the wealthiest 5% of Americans. When Katrina struck those levees could not hold back the storm surge. They failed. This was a major contibutor to the destruction that befell the City of New Orleans. Had the recommended improvements been made the disaster may have been greatly reduced.
Magicgay.
Quote:
"Responsible for building and maintaining the flood walls and embankments that make up local flood control networks, the state's levee boards historically have provided governors with an easy way to reward financial supporters. In New Orleans, there is the added benefit of overseeing a police department and an expansive inventory of real estate that includes an airport, two marinas, a riverboat casino complex, dozens of parcels of commercial property and hundreds of acres of park land along Lake Pontchartrain."
Then there's an Associated Press story from earlier in the year, which announced that the "Orleans Parish levee board is dusting off a thick but long-dormant report on a grandiose public works project: a proposal to build a 4-mile-long island on Lake Pontchartrain with beaches, camping areas and possibly hotels, restaurants and an amusement park.
"Just imagine a 4-mile stretch of sandy beaches that doesn't directly impact traffic, curtails pollutants in the lake and maybe provides tourist attractions like hotels and museums," Eugene Green, a levee board commissioner, told AP. "That's something that needs to be explored seriously."
. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9232666/site/newsweek/page/2/
Too bad the levee board didn't focus more on the...levees.
Any besides, the levees were built to sustain a Level 3 hurricane...Katrina was a Level 5...it would have taken 20 years to improve them, just as I posted before.
Quote:
In December 1995, the Orleans Levee Board actually boasted to the New Orleans Times-Picayune about all the federal money it had to protect the city from hurricanes. As a result, the board said, the "most ambitious flood-fighting plan in generations was drafted," one that would plug the "few manageable gaps" in the levee system.
The problem was at the local level. The ambitious plan fell apart when the state suspended the Levee Board's ability to refinance old bonds and issue new ones. As the Times-Picayune reported, Legislative Auditor Dan Kyle "repeatedly faulted the Levee Board for the way it awards contracts, spends money and ignores no-bid contract laws." Blocked by the state from raising local money, the federal matching funds went unspent.
By 1998, Louisiana's state government had a $2 billion construction budget, but less than one-tenth of one percent, or $1.98 million, was dedicated to New Orleans levee improvements. By contrast, $22 million was spent that year to renovate a home for the Louisiana Supreme Court.
Where did all the money go? Again, the Times-Picayune says much of the money went not to flood control, but to lawmakers' pet projects, from a $750 million for a new canal lock to a $2.5 million Mardi Gras fountain project that ran $600,000 over budget.
Nine months before Katrina, three top Louisiana Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness officials were indicted by a federal grand jury in Shreveport and charged, according to the U.S. Attorney's Office for the Western District of Louisiana, "with offenses related to the obstruction of an audit of the use of federal funds for flood mitigation opportunities throughout Louisiana."
http://www.investors.com/editorial/IBDArticles.asp?artsec=20&artnum=1
Bush's fault too, I suppose.
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MisterJLA said:
Bush's fault too, I suppose.
waaaaaaa waaaaaaaaa 
ROTFLMAO!!!
It's not even worth discussing anymore. America is responding. Only the hard core wingnuts who do to Bush what Monika did to Bill are the ones living in some alternate reality where Bush still looks like a competent leader.
Yes, that's you JLA. Open wide. Here comes Chimpus Maximus and boy, I think he needs to blow off some steam!
Washington Post/ABC News:
Quote:
President Bush's public standing has hit record lows amid broad support for an independent investigation of the federal response to Hurricane Katrina and calls for postponing congressional action on $70 billion in proposed tax cuts to help pay for storm recovery, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.
President Bush's overall job approval rating now stands at 42 percent, the lowest of his presidency and down three points since Hurricane Katrina savaged the Gulf Coast two weeks ago. Fifty-seven percent disapprove of Bush's performance, a double-digit increase since January.
The Post includes this analysis:
Quote:
Together, the poll portrays an increasingly unpopular president who is under siege at home and abroad. It also suggests that the public is growing impatient with an administration that once seemed so sure-footed but now seems unable to deal effectively with crises at home and abroad.
Okay, he's an idiot, nasty and incompetent. And, the public has figured it out, too.
The Bush agenda is finished. So go ahead, rail at me some more. For all the good it'll do. LOL!
Froomkin:
Is Bush the commanding, decisive, jovial president you've been hearing about for years in so much of the mainstream press?
Maybe not so much.
Quote:
Judging from the blistering analyses in Time, Newsweek, and elsewhere these past few days, it turns out that Bush is in fact fidgety, cold and snappish in private. He yells at those who dare give him bad news and is therefore not surprisingly surrounded by an echo chamber of terrified sycophants. He is slow to comprehend concepts that don't emerge from his gut. He is uncomprehending of the speeches that he is given to read. And oh yes, one of his most significant legacies -- the immense post-Sept. 11 reorganization of the federal government which created the Homeland Security Department -- has failed a big test.
Maybe it's Bush's sinking poll numbers -- he is, after all, undeniably an unpopular president now. Maybe it's the way that the federal response to the flood has cut so deeply against Bush's most compelling claim to greatness: His resoluteness when it comes to protecting Americans.
But for whatever reason, critical observations and insights that for so long have been zealously guarded by mainstream journalists, and only doled out in teaspoons if at all, now seem to be flooding into the public sphere.
An emperor-has-no-clothes moment seems upon us
The emperor has no brain, either. This is actually very scary. We are not safe with Bush in charge.
to quote Cheney, go fuck yourselves!
Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else. --Will Rogers
"I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees." - George W. Bush
I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would .. try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile. - Condoleeza Rice
Barbara Bush: It's Good Enough for the Poor
To comfort the powerless and make the powerful uncomfortable.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
A better assumption is that a lot of your posts aren't worth responding to. Especially the ones that engage in petty name-calling and school yard taunts.
So, to wrap up: nearly everything you "true statement" is wrong.
How's that for a "sting", "Sonny"?
Where have I engaged in petty name calling directed at you? I'm often the victim of it myself and I do try to give as good as I get. I only engage in malicious inuendo with you, G-man 
You have given me somethings to investigate further. Here is something I found in the Chicago Tribune also.
Quote:
Funding cuts led way to lesser levees
By Andrew Martin and and Andrew Zajac
Washington bureau
Published August 31, 2005, 10:24 PM CDT
WASHINGTON -- Despite continuous warnings that a catastrophic hurricane could hit New Orleans, the Bush administration and Congress in recent years have repeatedly cut funding for hurricane preparation and flood control.
The cuts have delayed construction of levees around the city and stymied an ambitious project to improve drainage in New Orleans' neighborhoods.
For instance, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers requested $27 million for this fiscal year to pay for hurricane protection projects around Lake Pontchartrain. The Bush administration countered with $3.9 million, and Congress eventually provided $5.7 million, according to figures provided by the office of U.S. Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-La.).
Because of the budget cuts, which were caused in part by the rising costs of the war in Iraq, the corps delayed seven contracts that included enlarging the levees, according to corps documents.
Much of the devastation in New Orleans was caused by breaches in the levees, which sent water from Lake Pontchartrain pouring into the city. Since much of the city is below sea level, the levee walls acted like the walls of a bowl that filled until as much as 80 percent of the city was under water.
Similarly, the Army Corps requested $78 million for this fiscal year for projects that would improve draining and prevent flooding in New Orleans. The Bush administration's budget provided $30 million for the projects, and Congress ultimately approved $36.5 million, according to Landrieu's office.
"I'm not saying it wouldn't still be flooded, but I do feel that if it had been totally funded, there would be less flooding than you have," said Michael Parker, a former Republican Mississippi congressman who headed the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers from October 2001 until March 2002, when he was ousted after publicly criticizing a Bush administration proposal to cut the corps' budget.
A corps plan to shore up the levees began in 1965 and was supposed to be finished in 10 years but remains incomplete. "They've never put enough money in to complete it," Parker said. He complained that the corps' budget has been regularly targeted by the White House because public works projects are perceived as pork and aren't considered "sexy."
"Go talk to the people who are suffering in New Orleans," Parker said. "Ask them, `Do they think it's pork?' "
Joseph Suhayda, an emeritus engineering professor at Louisiana State University who has worked for the Army Corps of Engineers, said the corps simply didn't have enough money to build the levees as high as the designs called for.
"The fact that they weren't that high was a result of lack of funding," he said, noting that part of the levee at the 17th Street Canal--where one of the breaches occurred--was 4 feet lower than the rest. "I think they could have significantly reduced the impact if they had those projects funded. If you need to spend $20 million and you spend $4 or $5 million, something's got to give."
Officials for the Army Corps of Engineers declined to comment on the reasons for the budget cutbacks.
Fred Caver, who retired in June as the corps' deputy director of civil works, said there is always competition for funding and "you're never going to get everything you want."
But he said a reluctance to invest in unglamorous public works projects and especially heavy demands on the budget, from the war in Iraq and entitlement programs, have added to the difficulty in securing funding for corps projects.
Scott Milburn, a spokesman for the White House Office of Management and Budget, declined to comment about the specific allegations regarding funding for hurricane-related projects in Louisiana. However, he said, "The president signed into law a $100 million increase for the corps for the current fiscal year compared to the previous year's level."
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Nice selective reading there, whomod. Any "thoughts" on the text that I posted that you left out? Opinion polls have nothing to do with what's being discussed, dumbfuck. So give it a stab, whomod: The levee board was mulling over a "proposal to build a 4-mile-long island on Lake Pontchartrain with beaches, camping areas and possibly hotels, restaurants and an amusement park." Why didn't the *levve board* focus on the *levees*? Why was only one-tenth of the budget for construction in Louisana focus on the levees? Why did the state squander 2.5 million on a fountain? I don't expect a coherent answer any time soon, you being whomod and all. By the way, the pm you sent wbam was a riot: Quote:
Listen, I've been off these boards for the better part of a day now because I was just seething at this incredibly cheap dig you made here. I debated whether to post this publicly like you chose to do or to simply reply to you personally. Seeing this, you know the answer.
Now what happened to Prometheus is terrible. Condolensces have already gone out as well as offers of assistance. Just because he's a "fellow liberal" doesn't mean I chat with him on a personal basis or that my condolensces mean jack shit to him or not at this time.
Now, if and when he asks for help, i'll offer as much of it as I can. It's the human thing to do. Until then I don't see the point of trying to score points or look 'oh so caring' by making a public display of my assistance. That's not assistance. That's fucking self aggrandizment. My way of helping others is to simply help out when asked and to butt out when help is either not neded or wanted and no one needs to know one way or another save myself and the person directly involved. When and if Prometheus asks for help, I've got his back as do most of us here on these boards. And Prometheus will know it and not anyone else.
Got that??!
How you can stand there and try to knock me down by calling me "sick" is well... sick! You're trying to use Pro's misfortune against me!!! God, you're a complete bastard! This is why i've waited this long to reply because even now as i'm typing this, I want to rip out your fucking neck!!!
As I asked Pariah yesterday, when have I ever engaged in the kind of personal insults that you JLA, Sammitch and even Rob (Fuck you) Kamphausen lately have engaged in? If I recall, you now routinely delight in calling me a "joke" or making 'tinfoil hat' belittlements whenever i type anything you choose not to acknowledge (such as the Downing Street memo).
Listen, you may disagree with me politically, fine. But i'm getting real sick of you and a few others choosing to 'get back' at me because you find my views contradictory to yours by trying to character assasinate me. This last salvo just took the cake!
Fuckhead.
"Are you eating it...or is it eating you?" [center] [/center] [center] [/center]
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Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
" I know God exists because WBAM told me so. " - theory9
JLA brand RACK points = 514k
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Quote:
HURRICANE RESPONSE
Corps Officials Say New Orleans' Flood Walls Were in Good Condition 9/1/2005
By Tom Ichniowski
Leaders of the Army Corps of Engineers say the city's flood walls were in excellent shape before the storm but weren't designed to handle a hurricane of Katrina's magnitude.
In a phone briefing Sept. 1, the Army's Chief of Engineers, Lt. Gen. Carl A. Strock, addressed some of the issues that have surfaced about Corps-built structures around New Orleans. Strock said that the project that resulted in the levees along Lake Pontchartrain was designed to protect against a 200-to-300-year storm, which equates to about a Category 3 hurricane, but Katrina was more severe.
Al Naomi, senior project manager in the Corps' New Orleans District, says, "The [project's] design was not adequate for a storm of this nature." He adds that to cover a Category 5 storm, work on storm protection improvements would have had to start 20 or 25 years ago.
The levee breaches occurred in areas that were "in excellent condition" before the storm and were inspected, said Naomi. He said there was nothing the Corps could have done involving the completed floodwalls that could have prevented the breaches.
Another question concerned the allocation of national resources during a war. The war in Iraq has not had an impact on the Corps budget, said Strock. According to his analysis, Corps funding "has been fairly stable" since the early 1990s and the Corps has spent more than $300 million since 2002 on storm protection in the New Orleans area. "We were just caught by a storm of an intensity which exceeded the design of the [flood protection] project we have in place," he said.
Some Corps contracts in the area had been delayed, but Naomi says those contracts were not in the sections of the levees that failed.
Since the 1930s, Louisiana has lost more than 1.2 million acres of wetlands, which act as a natural buffer against storms. But Strock contends that wetlands losses "did not have a significant impact" in the case of Katrina. He says that most of the losses of wetlands and barrier islands were south and west of the city, and not in Katrina's path.
Asked about the cost of the initial repairs and the longer-term work, Strock said, "We're doing everything humanly possible to stop the flow of water and it's going to cost what it's going to cost."
Walter Baumy, chief of engineering in the New Orleans District, says that a contract is under way at the breached 17th Street Canal, where the Corps plans to drive sheet piles to close the canal where it meets Lake Pontchartrain. He says the first sheet pile has been driven and he hopes that the canal will be closed sometime Sept. 1.
At the London Ave. Canal, which parallels the 17th Street Canal, Baumy says the Corps is working with contractors to get material to the site to fill in the gap. "Once we seal those two places," he says, "we should stop water going into the city."
After that, the next task will be to pump out the remaining water that has covered large parts of New Orleans. Baumy says the Corps is working with the New Orleans Sewerage and Water Board to identify pumping stations to get into service quickly, then to get those stations dry and ready to pump. "We need to give them a dry place to work, " Baumy said, but didn't estimate how long the de-watering would take.
Strock says that as Lake Pontchartrain's level recedes, the water flows should stabilize--and should be nearly at that point now--and then become reversed.
http://www.enr.com/news/environment/archives/050901c.asp
If you don't feel like reading all that, the short version goes like this:
It's Bush's fault.
Sincerely,
whomod and magicgay.
"Are you eating it...or is it eating you?" [center] [/center] [center] [/center]
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Quote:
Quote:
Listen, I've been off these boards for the better part of a day now because I was just seething at this incredibly cheap dig you made here. I debated whether to post this publicly like you chose to do or to simply reply to you personally. Seeing this, you know the answer.
Now what happened to Prometheus is terrible. Condolensces have already gone out as well as offers of assistance. Just because he's a "fellow liberal" doesn't mean I chat with him on a personal basis or that my condolensces mean jack shit to him or not at this time.
Now, if and when he asks for help, i'll offer as much of it as I can. It's the human thing to do. Until then I don't see the point of trying to score points or look 'oh so caring' by making a public display of my assistance. That's not assistance. That's fucking self aggrandizment. My way of helping others is to simply help out when asked and to butt out when help is either not neded or wanted and no one needs to know one way or another save myself and the person directly involved. When and if Prometheus asks for help, I've got his back as do most of us here on these boards. And Prometheus will know it and not anyone else.
Got that??!
How you can stand there and try to knock me down by calling me "sick" is well... sick! You're trying to use Pro's misfortune against me!!! God, you're a complete bastard! This is why i've waited this long to reply because even now as i'm typing this, I want to rip out your fucking neck!!!
As I asked Pariah yesterday, when have I ever engaged in the kind of personal insults that you JLA, Sammitch and even Rob (Fuck you) Kamphausen lately have engaged in? If I recall, you now routinely delight in calling me a "joke" or making 'tinfoil hat' belittlements whenever i type anything you choose not to acknowledge (such as the Downing Street memo).
Listen, you may disagree with me politically, fine. But i'm getting real sick of you and a few others choosing to 'get back' at me because you find my views contradictory to yours by trying to character assasinate me. This last salvo just took the cake!
Fuckhead.
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OP
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
Quote:
magicjay38 said:Here is something I found in the Chicago Tribune also.
Funding cuts led way to lesser levees
Levee problems were not suddenly discovered during the Bush administration. They have been a constant concern for the citizens of New Orleans for well over a hundred years… as has been the corruption of New Orleans and Louisiana officials that have failed to secure matching funds, misappropriated the funds they were allocated, and were so poor in money management that they lost the ability to restructure their debt. In addition, the state of Louisiana thought so little of levee improvements that they spent less than one tenth of one percent of their 1998 budget -- $1.98 million -- to levee improvements in the New Orleans area. In 2001, the Orleans levee board was forced to defer capital improvement project because the locals rejected a tax increase to fix the levees. The levee board did manage, however, as noted above, to spend $2.5 million on one restoration project—of a water fountain. That, too, was well over budget. In short, New Orleans and Louisiana bear almost all the blame for not funding their levee system They couldn’t even meet the federal government halfway. Why should someone in Boise or Boston be forced to pay for a Louisiana-benefiting project that won’t even sell in Baton Rouge? It is also worth noting that under the present administration, Louisiana has received more money for Corps of Engineers construction projects ($1.9 billion) than any of the other 49 states. California was a distant second with less than $1.4 billion, even though its population is more than seven times larger. Seriously, why should the President or congress have allocated more money to La if they were going to spend it on fountains instead of levees?
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 24,593
Timelord. Drunkard. 15000+ posts
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Timelord. Drunkard. 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 24,593 |
As someone who is in the area hit by the hurricane, visited New Orleans quite often, and lived in an area protected by levees nearly all of my life, I have a little more to say. 1. Mayor Ray Nagin of New Orleans had an evacuation plan in place after last year's hurricane scare. School buses and drivers were on stand-by to drive out the remaining citizens until the mayor himself canceled the plan because he didn't want to do it "half-assed". (The mayor wanted to use Greyhound buses and not school buses.)
2. For those complaining about FEMA not moving fast enough into the area, I ask you a simple question. How were they supposed to get there? Let me tell you something about southern Mississippi and Louisanna. It's cover in fucking trees. Pine trees to be exact. Most if not all less than 50 years old due to the heavy lumber industry in the region. I couldn't get out of my fucking driveway because of all the trees down around my house. All highways and interstates in the area had the same problem. Not only was New Orleans under water, but so was the entire surrounding area. Coming in over water wasn't safe because there was no way to tell if water levels had been lowered in the lake, bay, or river (and the Mississippi river had been reported down by at least fifteen feet prior to the storm hitting the area) as well as any debris that might have been in the water. And when rescue teams were sent in in helicopters, assholes were taking shots at them. Hell, even when FEMA could get in there, bastards were still shooting at rescue teams.
3. On the Gulf Coast and elsewhere throughout the storm area, local law enforcement personelle stayed to assist in the post storm rescue. 200 New Orleans police officers turned in their badges. They left at a time that they were most needed to curb the lawlessness that already prevades the town (For those of you who don't know, New Orleans was already a town with terrible violence and criminal activity before the storm. I don't see the people stealing food and medicine as looters. It's the assholes stealing TV's and stereos that are fucking looters.) Gulf Coast officials also worked with FEMA by telling them what has already been done, what is being done, and what needs to be done. New Orleans officials just wanted FEMA to step in and do it all. That's why the Coast Guard was able to rescue more people in 48 hours in Mississippi than they usually do in a week.
Of course, that's all just partisan BS. We know that the real reason rescue work went better on the Gulf Coast than New Orleans is because there are no black people in Mississippi.
4. As I said earlier, I grew up close the Mississippi river and have some first hand knowledge about levees. One of the things that comes directly to mind is that levees don't just break. They have to be worn away. So, were the levees weakened in previous storms and floods and not built back up properly; or were the city officials not paying attention to what was going on? Seems to me that New Orleans didn't know about the levee's weakening until the city was flooded.
5. I have to marvel at how people criticize a federal agency that will hand out $2000 in a heat beat to damn near anyone. People who didn't insure their houses at all are getting a big fat check from Uncle Sam to cover their irresponsiblity. There would be more money and assistance to go around if people weren't preying upon this system and taking what they don't need or deserve. I could easily take my hotel and gas receipts from my trek to Atlanta to FEMA and get a check to cover it all, giving myself a free vacation. But that was already planned. I had already earmarked money for that trip. I don't need the government's assistance, so I'm not going asking for it. Save it for those who really need it. And those who need it have to be patient. They weren't the only ones affected by the hurricane. Others need help too. That's always going to slow the process.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
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OP
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
Good news from New Orleans, New Orleans Airport, Waterfront to Reopen NEW ORLEANS - New Orleans awaited the reopening of the airport and the waterfront Tuesday for the first time since Hurricane Katrina hit
The new acting director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency pledged to intensify efforts to find more permanent housing for the tens of thousands of Katrina survivors now in shelters.
"We're going to get people out of the shelters. We're going to move on and get them the help they need," R. David Paulison said in his first public comments since he was named to replace Michael Brown. Brown resigned under fire over the government's sluggish response to the disaster.
Also Tuesday, Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport was scheduled to receive its first commercial flight since Katrina struck on Aug. 29.
The port of New Orleans expected its first cargo ship since the hurricane late Tuesday and expected at least three more ships by the week's end, said Gary LaGrange, port president and chief executive. The arriving ship was carrying up to 500 containers of coffee and wood products from Argentina, Brazil and Mexico, LaGrange said.
A shipment of steel coils was leaving the port Tuesday bound for a Hyundai auto plant in Greenville, Ala., he said.
"It's a historical moment. Two weeks ago the prognosis was six months, so to pull it off so our customers have enough faith and confidence in us is very heartwarming," LaGrange said.
He added: "From a commercial and psychological standpoint, this is five stars. This shows the people of New Orleans their city is back in business."
The port of New Orleans is the gateway to a river system serving 33 states along the Mississippi River or its tributaries. The port also connects to six railroads.
While public health authorities have been warning about the risk of germs from the filthy floodwaters, workers from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention are not seeing many cases of disease.
Instead, between 40 percent and 50 percent of patients seeking emergency care have injuries — CDC has counted 148 injuries in just the past two days, Carol Rubin, an agency hurricane-relief specialist. She said they include chainsaw injuries and carbon monoxide poisoning from generators
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,657
1500+ posts
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1500+ posts
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,657 |
Quote:
the G-man said:
Good news from New Orleans, New Orleans Airport, Waterfront to Reopen
NEW ORLEANS - New Orleans awaited the reopening of the airport and the waterfront Tuesday for the first time since Hurricane Katrina hit
The new acting director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency pledged to intensify efforts to find more permanent housing for the tens of thousands of Katrina survivors now in shelters.
"We're going to get people out of the shelters. We're going to move on and get them the help they need," R. David Paulison said in his first public comments since he was named to replace Michael Brown. Brown resigned under fire over the government's sluggish response to the disaster.
Also Tuesday, Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport was scheduled to receive its first commercial flight since Katrina struck on Aug. 29.
The port of New Orleans expected its first cargo ship since the hurricane late Tuesday and expected at least three more ships by the week's end, said Gary LaGrange, port president and chief executive. The arriving ship was carrying up to 500 containers of coffee and wood products from Argentina, Brazil and Mexico, LaGrange said.
A shipment of steel coils was leaving the port Tuesday bound for a Hyundai auto plant in Greenville, Ala., he said.
"It's a historical moment. Two weeks ago the prognosis was six months, so to pull it off so our customers have enough faith and confidence in us is very heartwarming," LaGrange said.
He added: "From a commercial and psychological standpoint, this is five stars. This shows the people of New Orleans their city is back in business."
The port of New Orleans is the gateway to a river system serving 33 states along the Mississippi River or its tributaries. The port also connects to six railroads.
While public health authorities have been warning about the risk of germs from the filthy floodwaters, workers from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention are not seeing many cases of disease.
Instead, between 40 percent and 50 percent of patients seeking emergency care have injuries — CDC has counted 148 injuries in just the past two days, Carol Rubin, an agency hurricane-relief specialist. She said they include chainsaw injuries and carbon monoxide poisoning from generators
That's great news! Thank you, G-man!
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,799 Likes: 40
Fair Play! 15000+ posts
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Fair Play! 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,799 Likes: 40 |
President Bush finally accepts some responsability. Bush: 'I take responsibility' * "To the extent the federal government didn't fully do its job right, I take responsibility," Bush says
Fair play!
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