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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051112/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/cuba_visa_denied
Quote:
Prize-Winning Cuban Scientist Denied Visa
By ANITA SNOW, Associated Press Writer Sat Nov 12, 6:57 AM ET
HAVANA - A Cuban scientist who helped develop a low-cost synthetic vaccine that prevents meningitis and pneumonia in small children says he was offended the U.S. government denied his request to travel to the United States to receive an award.
Vicente Verez-Bencomo was to accept the award recognizing his team's technological achievement during a Wednesday ceremony at the Tech Museum of Innovation in San Jose, Calif. He had also been invited to address a gathering of the Society for Glycobiology in Boston on Friday.
Verez-Bencomo said the State Department denied him a visa because the visit would be "detrimental to the interests of the United States."
"That is really offensive to me," the chemical engineer told The Associated Press as he sat on a stool inside the University of Havana's Synthetic Antigens Laboratory, where the vaccine was developed. "It's really a shame."
The State Department said it has a policy prohibiting comment on individual visa cases. The switchboard rang unanswered at the U.S. Interests Section in Havana, which evidently was closed Friday for Veterans Day.
"It's incomprehensible that a civilized nation can confuse someone who has dedicated his life to saving the lives of children with someone who goes against the interests of the United States," Verez-Bencomo said with a sigh. "I wasn't going there to talk about politics, I was going to talk about science."
Verez-Bencomo led a team that developed a vaccine for Haemophilus influenza type B, also known as Hib, a bacteria that causes meningitis and pneumonia. The diseases kill up to 700,000 children worldwide each year.
Before the development of a similar vaccine more than a decade ago, Hib was the biggest cause of meningitis among infants in the United States. That earlier vaccine has all but stamped out the disease in the western world, but mass immunizations are too expensive for many poor countries.
The synthetic vaccine created by Verez-Bencomo's team can be produced at a relatively low cost because antigens don't have to be grown in a bacterial culture, making it an attractive alternative for poorer nations.
So far more than 1 million doses have been administered to Cubans. Science Magazine last month said the vaccine "may someday save millions of lives."
Officials at the San Jose Tech Museum were disappointed the government blocked Verez-Bencomo's trip.
The museum organizes the award ceremony every year to recognize individuals or groups who use technology to improve the environment, economy, education, equality and health.
"We recognized them for cutting-edge technology and wish he could be here to accept this," museum spokesman Tony Santos said. "We wish that hadn't been the government's decision."
An editorial in the San Jose Mercury News also expressed disappointment.
"Verez-Bencomo won't be here to receive the award," it said, "because he's from Cuba. He's a scientist, not a terrorist, but our State Department nevertheless denies him entry. He brings ideas, not bombs, but we let ideology trump innovation."
I can't even find the words to express how disgusted by this I am.
Last edited by Darknight613; 2005-11-12 10:41 PM.
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I don't care if he cured Teh AIDS. The filthy bastard's Cuban! He doesn't belong here!
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Anyway, I am pretty disappointed by the State Department's decision as well. I'm sure some politicizing would've eventually taken place if they'd let him come anyway, but even then it doesn't diminish the man's accomplishments. I really think we need more conditions for letting Cubans into the US than just the quality of their pitching arm.
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Quote:
Darknight613 said:I can't even find the words to express how disgusted by this I am.
At this point, however, you don't have the full story.
As noted in the article, the US government has a "no comment" policy. So we don't know if they had reasons not cited in the article.
In addition, you need to remember that anything this doctor said in his comments was approved, if not scripted, by the Cuban government, and most likely designed for maximum propaganda against the U.S.
So you're disgusted by a story that is, at best, half told and, most likely, incomplete.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Darknight613 said:I can't even find the words to express how disgusted by this I am.
At this point, however, you don't have the full story.
As noted in the article, the US government has a "no comment" policy. So we don't know if they had reasons not cited in the article.
Perhaps, but I can't think of what those reasons could be.
He's coming here to accept a medal for research that could lead to the saving of millions of lives. He doesn't seem like the type that I should lock my doors and shutter my windows if he were to walk into my neighborhood.
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In addition, you need to remember that anything this doctor said in his comments was approved, if not scripted, by the Cuban government
So?
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and most likely designed for maximum propaganda against the U.S.
In all honesty, that statement sounds both paranoid and like a very far-fetched conspiracy theory.
Besides, even granted that his comments would probably be Cuban government approved, if not scripted (approved seems more likely), it sounds like you're just assuming that he'd be taking a shot at America in the process. They'd probably just make him laud Cuba's advancements and accomplishments, whatever those may be. There's no guarantee they'd force him to pot-shot America.
Yes, you could argue that I'm assuming he won't, but I seriously doubt this guy would turn the opportunity to accept a medal to swipe at the US, and I don't think Casto would force him to either. What would be the point? What would it accomplish? It wouldn't make sense to force him to pull a stunt like that.
Sammitch, what's that line you have about black helicopters?
Last edited by Darknight613; 2005-11-13 3:20 AM.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
Anyway, I am pretty disappointed by the State Department's decision as well. I'm sure some politicizing would've eventually taken place if they'd let him come anyway, but even then it doesn't diminish the man's accomplishments. I really think we need more conditions for letting Cubans into the US than just the quality of their pitching arm.
Agreed.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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Quote:
...even granted that his comments would probably be Cuban government approved, if not scripted (approved seems more likely), it sounds like you're just assuming that he'd be taking a shot at America in the process. They'd probably just make him laud Cuba's advancements and accomplishments, whatever those may be. There's no guarantee they'd force him to pot-shot America.
Actually, my point was that his comments in the article were probably approved/scripted by the Cuban government.
Further, since almost the entire article is based on his word alone, the article itself is quite possibly nothing but Cuban "spin" on the matter.
So, until we know more, there is a good chance you're getting outraged based on nothing but Cuban propaganda.
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You know the problem is that he made a low cost drug. That's why it's detrimental to the US. Might give people all sorts of ideas...
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Actually, it appears that this a long standing policy, dating at least back to 1995, that almost all officials with the Cuban government, including scientists are denied VISAS as "detrimental to the interests of the United States." Further, the policy was, I believe, put in place as part of a Clinton administration initative to sanction Cuba for "arbitrarily denying exit permits to Cubans with US visas, thereby separating families and forcing would-be immigrants to attempt high-risk escapes by boat." You might argue, rightly so, that its a poorly thought out policy. However, its not one directed at Verez-Bencomo alone, or a decision intended to cast aspersions on him. It's a blanket policy towards the Cuban government which, you might recall, is well known for human rights abuses. So, as noted above, it appears that the article is more propaganda than fact.
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Who cares if he does say things detrimental to US interests. You think it might lead to revolution in the streets? We don't pay attention to our own scientists, why would you think we'd listen to this guy? The only thing being protected is the conitnueing ability of Republicans to carry Florida.  Karl Rove
"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives." John Stuart Mill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. Oscar Wilde
He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless dead.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Actually, it appears that this a long standing policy, dating at least back to 1995, that almost all officials with the Cuban government, including scientists are denied VISAS as "detrimental to the interests of the United States."
Further, the policy was, I believe, put in place as part of a Clinton administration initative to sanction Cuba for "arbitrarily denying exit permits to Cubans with US visas, thereby separating families and forcing would-be immigrants to attempt high-risk escapes by boat."
I'm not too happy with any US president's Cuba policies. I'm not sure why you singled out Clinton when other US presidents have also devised or approved policies that punish the people of Cuba for the sins of Fidel Castro, which makes it more difficult for the US to encourage democracy to form naturally in Cuba.
(I could hazard a guess why you singled out Clinton, but that would lead to all sorts of nastiness and indignation, and it wouldn't solve anything.)
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You might argue, rightly so, that its a poorly thought out policy.
I have argued that - many times. That's why I didn't see the need to do so again when I started this thread, because I've said all this before and while I may have been gone a long time, I assumed that people would be familiar with my stance on Cuba. After all, we at the RKMBs do have such long memories around here when it comes to each other's posts.
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However, its not one directed at Verez-Bencomo alone, or a decision intended to cast aspersions on him. It's a blanket policy towards the Cuban government which, you might recall, is well known for human rights abuses.
A blanket policy I've always opposed, and I have quite a few reasons why.
It treats every single Cuban as an enemy that means us harm, and that's just simply wrong.
Our assumption which I mentioned above makes us look paranoid. Paranoid people and nations aren't taken seriously.
It makes it easier for Castro to demonize us, and it will make it harder for the new generation of Cubans who have so far never known anything but Castro's propaganda and mind-bending to trust us.
I'm well aware of Cuba's human rights abuses - some of you may already know that I saw them personally when I was in Cuba five years ago. I've seen the horrific results of Castro's brainwashing, and the poverty his subjects are forced to endure while Castro enjoys a vast personal fortune.
But denying Cubans entry into the United States and preventing them from seeing how a democracy works and what life is like here compared to the hell that is Cuba is not the answer.
Verez-Bencomo is but one example of a larger problem. But since he's the example I just came across, his treatment happens to be the example that triggers my anger.
And besides, I'm used to looking at issues on a case by case basis.
Last edited by Darknight613; 2005-11-13 7:05 AM.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
...even granted that his comments would probably be Cuban government approved, if not scripted (approved seems more likely), it sounds like you're just assuming that he'd be taking a shot at America in the process. They'd probably just make him laud Cuba's advancements and accomplishments, whatever those may be. There's no guarantee they'd force him to pot-shot America.
Actually, my point was that his comments in the article were probably approved/scripted by the Cuban government.
There was nothing in your post that gave that impresion. The way you worded it, you made it sound like you were talking about whatever he mught say in the US when he got his medal.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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I'm not sure why you think I was speaking of the doctor's future comments, as opposed to the ones in the article, when I specifically referred to his comments in the past tense.
However, if I was unclear, I apolgize.
As to your other points...
Actually, I think Clinton deserves kudos, not condemnation, for the thinking behind this policy. Even if you consider the policy too broad (and reasonable people can disagree on that point) that fact of the matter is that it was designed to highlight one of Cuba's many human rights abuses.
Further, it should be noted that I brought him up because I was explaining the historical context of the policy. I was giving that explanation because, the way the article was written, it appeared as if this was some sort of "sui generis" concept that was created solely for Verez-Bencomo. That's not the case.
I recognize that you prefer to look at things on a "case by case" basis. However, that's not always a good thing. You can end up worrying more about the exception than the rule.
Of course, this all presupposes that Verez-Bencomo is no threat to the U.S. or that he's a fine guy. Maybe that's the case. Maybe it isn't.
A lot of skilled scientists have done some pretty reprehenisble things over the years, both at home (Tuskagee comes immediately to mind) and abroad (Mengele comes immediately to mind, obviously), while actually making some significant medical or scientific advancements. Is it possible that Verez-Bencomo is being objected to because, as an official with the Cuban government, he's complicit in some of the more unsavory aspects of Castro's medical programs (such as forced quarentine of HIV sufferers)?
I don't know. And, given Cuba's lack of free press, and our own government's policy of "no comment," neither do you.
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Kennedy actually wanted to open talks with Castro after his trip to Texas, he had concluded by November 1963 that the embargo wasn't really working and that American influence in Cuba would be a better step than just starving the people.
Bow ties are coool.
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I tend to agree on Kennedy, at least in principle, on this.
While you don't want to create a situation that empowers someone like Castro, there is something to be said for the idea that free trade will expand human rights quicker than sanctions.
On the other hand, you have to be careful that you don't simply end up propping up the dictator and allowing him to share secrets and the like with a more signficant enemy such as, circa 1963, the USSR.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
I'm not sure why you think I was speaking of the doctor's future comments, as opposed to the ones in the article, when I specifically referred to his comments in the past tense.
However, if I was unclear, I apolgize.
Accepted. Sorry if I was a little too confrontational.
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As to your other points...
Actually, I think Clinton deserves kudos, not condemnation, for the thinking behind this policy. Even if you consider the policy too broad (and reasonable people can disagree on that point) that fact of the matter is that it was designed to highlight one of Cuba's many human rights abuses.
Yeah, but what will denying Cubans access to the United States do to reduce human rights abuse in Cuba? Like I said earlier, allowing people into our country, or allowing Americans (especially students) to go to Cuba and talking with them might do more to change things for the better than by shutting the out.
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Further, it should be noted that I brought him up because I was explaining the historical context of the policy. I was giving that explanation because, the way the article was written, it appeared as if this was some sort of "sui generis" concept that was created solely for Verez-Bencomo. That's not the case.
Gotcha.
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I recognize that you prefer to look at things on a "case by case" basis. However, that's not always a good thing. You can end up worrying more about the exception than the rule.
Perhaps. But I worry about overlooking exceptions if I generalize. And of course, there's my credo you've heard a million times before: I don't want to condemn the innocent because of the guilty in their midst, nor do I want to excuse the guilty because of the innocent in their midst.
There are some situations when I'm willing to generalize, and others where I'm not. This is one where I'm not.
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Of course, this all presupposes that Verez-Bencomo is no threat to the U.S. or that he's a fine guy. Maybe that's the case. Maybe it isn't.
A lot of skilled scientists have done some pretty reprehenisble things over the years, both at home (Tuskagee comes immediately to mind) and abroad (Mengele comes immediately to mind, obviously), while actually making some significant medical or scientific advancements. Is it possible that Verez-Bencomo is being objected to because, as an official with the Cuban government, he's complicit in some of the more unsavory aspects of Castro's medical programs (such as forced quarentine of HIV sufferers)?
It's possible. It'd be nice if they'd tell us stuff like this to prevent misunderstanding on the part of the general public.
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I don't know. And, given Cuba's lack of free press, and our own goernment's policy of "no comment," neither do you.
I'll accept that.
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"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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