RKMBs Forums .::Important::. Politics and Current Events Hezbollah Declares 'Open War' vs Israel

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Matter-eater Man said:

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wannabuyamonkey said:...

You missunderstand, G-Man. I'm pretty sure MEM was refering to Democrats.

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Saying stuff like that WBAM isn't justified nor worth my response.

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wannabuyamonkey said:

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Chant said:

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the G-man said:

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Chant said:
Wasn't it your own founding fathers who something about it would be better to let 10 guilty men go free than punish 1 innocent?

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They were talking about the civil legal system, not war.

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I'm aware of that, and you know that, or you should know that!

But it's still the same thing. You can't kill civilians and then say you had to do it because you were aiming at some bloke and they were in the way.

You find another way!

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So tell me, what do you do? When the terrorists hug civilian sights, set up thier bases of opperations in an appartment building, set up road blocks barring civilians from leaving in order to create more of a meat shield for themselves. Do you say "ok" you win, do you stop fighting them because THEY put civilians in between you and themselves?

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Chant said:
Another way is not giving up.

There's always another solution. Shit, they could deploy their special forces and have them take them out. They could rely on their most excellent intelligence services to find the targets and have them neutralize them instead of just going all gung-ho and say "oh well, the terrorist scum has surrounded themselves with civilians, tough luck for them bomb them anyway!"

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thedoctor said:
The fact isn't that Lebanon is supporting Hezbollah. Pariah is completely off base with that assumption (yeah, I know. Big surprise, huh? ) Lebanon couldn't disarm Hezbollah. It doesn't really have a military or the resources to devout to such a task.

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Chant said:
now you're simply being silly.

Another way is not giving up.

There's always another solution.

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the G-man said:
This isn't a James Bond movie, Chant. You can't always track the villain to their secret hideout and nuetralize them with some simple act of espionage.

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Chant said:

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the G-man said:
This isn't a James Bond movie, Chant. You can't always track the villain to their secret hideout and nuetralize them with some simple act of espionage.

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Ha Ha, very funny, very funny indeed. You sound almost like you're actually trying to make a joke.

No offence intended of course.

No, you can't always wait to protect your own citizens. But consider this.

Some of those civilians dying may support Hizbollah, some may even be Hizbollah. But some aren't, and their deaths cannot be justified as the defence of another country. They are innocent and has done NOTHING to deserve this fate.

Casualties of war? perhaps, but that's not an excuse. Sure Israel may try to avoid the deaths of civilians, but it's clearly they are not doing enough.

And in regards to James Bond movies and intelligence services. How else do you think the Israeli knows that terrorist bosses are in the cars that are being bombed, the houses being raided and the homes being destroyed.

Apparently, "James Bond" has been quite effective at tracking down the terrorists.

Heh, that actually makes your "joke" funny after all.

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Chant said:
Casualties of war? perhaps, but that's not an excuse. Sure Israel may try to avoid the deaths of civilians, but it's clearly they are not doing enough.

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More Than 50 in Lebanon Killed by Airstrike
After Strike Kills Civilians, Israel Said to Suspend Air Attacks

QANA, Lebanon, July 30 -- Israeli warplanes blasted a group of buildings in this southern Lebanese village Sunday, killing more than 50 people, most of them women and children, according to Lebanese officials. The Israeli military said the airstrike was aimed at destroying Hezbollah rocket launchers nearby and that civilians were not being targeted.

U.S. officials announced late in the day that Israel was suspending all air attacks in southern Lebanon beginning immediately. There was no announcement from the Israeli government about the suspension.

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"I express great sorrow in the name of the state of Israel and the army over the deaths of Lebanese civilians in Qana."

the building in Qana struck by the Air Force fell around eight hours after being hit by the IDF...Eshel and the head of the IDF's Operational Branch, Major General Gadi Eisnkot said the structure was not being attacked when it collapsed, at around 8:00 in the morning.

The IDF believes that Hizbullah explosives in the building were behind the explosion that caused the collapse.

Another possibility is that the rickety building remained standing for a few hours, but eventually collapsed. "It could be that inside the building, things that could eventually cause an explosion were being housed, things that we could not blow up in the attack, and maybe remained there, Brigadier General [Amir] Eshel said.

"I'm saying this very carefully, because at this time I don't have a clue as to what the explanation could be for this gap," he added.

The IDF will defend the citizens of Israel from attacks by the Hizbullah and the responsibility for any civilian casualties rests with the Hizbullah who have turned the suburbs of Lebanon into a war front by firing missiles from within civilian areas.

Are you curious to know what Hizballah’s Media Relations Department has to say about the Lebanon crisis, and their role in Western media’s coverage of the Qana bombing?

Now you can call them and ask, thanks to a reader who forwarded scans of their business cards:





This is not a joke.

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r3x29yz4a said:

"I would like to meet with the Elders of Zion to plead their forgiveness so I can work in hollywood and have my bank account active again."

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Pariah said:
[Beardguy,] You've gotta be the biggest idiot on this board. First you say we shouldn't judge him in the DUI, and then you correspond with a Rayfact that actually claims Gibson is a Zionist.

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Pariah said:
*** You are ignoring this user ***

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When the Israelis capture Arabs in their wars, the captured Arabs are well fed, well housed, and eventually returned to their homes. When the Arabs (specifically the Syrians) have captured Israelis, they castrate them, cut off their male organs, decapitate the Israelis, and stuff their male organs in their mouths and leave the bodies on the field. Sometimes they also defecate on the bodies.

Israel has a population of about six million Jews. If a rocket hits a group of Israelis who are lying in the sun and kills 12 of them, that is the equivalent of the United States losing 600 men in one rocket attack. If nine Israeli civilians are killed in a rocket attack on a Haifa repair shop, that is the equivalent of the USA losing 540 civilians in one swoop.

Hezbollah is basically an arm of the Iranian army. Iran has a population of close to 70 million. Hundreds of thousands, maybe millions, are eager to join the fight against Eretz Israel. Even if by some miracle Israel wiped out every Hezbollah killer in Lebanon tomorrow, Iran could easily replace them forever. Resupplying the missilery is child's play: just buy it from China, our dear friends, who will sell it to anyone. This means Israel is in for an extremely prolonged, agonizing period of suffering.

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Beardguy57 said:
The sun turning into a red giant and engulfing the Earth in a few billion years is the only solution to all this war, Sammitch..as you pointed out to me recently, as long as their are humans on Earth, there will be war.

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Israel staged wide-ranging airstrikes and sent commandos into the Hezbollah heartland Saturday as the United Nations raced to begin enforcing its new cease-fire blueprint and stop the heavy fighting still raging in southern Lebanon.

Airstrikes killed at least 19 people in Lebanon, including 15 in one village, while Hezbollah rockets wounded at least five people in Israel.

The Islamic militant group said its fighters killed seven Israeli soldiers and destroyed 21 tanks in combat Saturday. Israel said its troops had killed 40 Hezbollah guerrillas over the previous 24 hours. Neither side commented on the other's claims.

• Complete withdrawal from Southern Lebanon in 2000. Israel is still being attacked from that region.
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  Complete withdrawal from Gaza, now under full Palestinian rule. Still launching attacks on Israel.
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  Near-complete withdrawal from the West Bank by Israel. Quieter than the other two fronts, but still launching attacks on Israel.

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Wonder Boy said:...
I'm beginning to think the only resolution for Israel would be to turn these regions into smoking nuclear craters.

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Matter-eater Man said:

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Wonder Boy said:...
I'm beginning to think the only resolution for Israel would be to turn these regions into smoking nuclear craters.

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Israel probably has a bit of a different perspective on the "whole exterminate large numbers of people" thing than you.

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Wonder Boy said:

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Matter-eater Man said:

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Wonder Boy said:...
I'm beginning to think the only resolution for Israel would be to turn these regions into smoking nuclear craters.

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Israel probably has a bit of a different perspective on the "whole exterminate large numbers of people" thing than you.

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I didn't advocate that they go out and do that. Although several events (the 1982 Lebanon invasion by Ariel Sharon, for example) indicate that if they could get away with it, they might do it.

Israel's population is estimated to increase by 2.4 million by 2050.
The Palestinian territories and the surrounding Arab nations are projected to increase in population by another 72 million during the same time.


What the Palestinians teach their children about Israel and Jews, from elementary school forward, is akin to what the Nazis taught children and the Hitler Youth in their schools:

• A disease, a plague, a race of liars and deceivers that have to be eliminated.
  
• There is no recognition in maps that there is or ever was an Israel.
  
• Any concession of land by Israel is just seen as a sign of weakness, that inspires further attacks, toward the complete annihilation of Israel.

I simply point out that it's a case of kill or be killed. Because that's surely what the Palestinians have planned for Israel's present 5 million inhabitants.

Would it be more or less humane to see that scenario played out now, or when the Arab world has 72 million more inhabitants?

Is it more "civilized" to let a group of people hell-bent on your destruction annihilate you, because you will not do what is necessary fully eliminate the threat?
Or is it more civilized to survive ?

I just raise the question.

72 million more fully indoctrinated potential suicide bombers and terrorists. The situation in Israel will not get any better.

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the G-man said:
Israeli Troops Infiltrate Lebanon's Border

Israel staged wide-ranging airstrikes and sent commandos into the Hezbollah heartland Saturday as the United Nations raced to begin enforcing its new cease-fire blueprint and stop the heavy fighting still raging in southern Lebanon.

Airstrikes killed at least 19 people in Lebanon, including 15 in one village, while Hezbollah rockets wounded at least five people in Israel.

The Islamic militant group said its fighters killed seven Israeli soldiers and destroyed 21 tanks in combat Saturday. Israel said its troops had killed 40 Hezbollah guerrillas over the previous 24 hours. Neither side commented on the other's claims.

So...Israel is kicking ass, taking names and now the U.N. and Hezbollah start agreeing to a cease fire?

Typical

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Israel said it would halt its war in southern Lebanon tomorrow morning in line with the United Nations' cease-fire resolution, as its troops stormed into the region yesterday in the fiercest fighting yet against Hezbollah in an effort to win control of the area before the deadline.

Lebanon's Cabinet unanimously passed the U.N. resolution, and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert was set to ask his Cabinet to approve it at its meeting today.

U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan said yesterday the fighting would stop at 1 a.m. New York time.

Earlier, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said she hoped fighting would end within "a day or so" of a cease-fire deal.

The region, which had been Hezbollah's power base, is to be handed over tomorrow to the Lebanese army and U.N. troops

In an ominous televised speech, Hezbollah leader Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah said, "As long as there is Israeli military movement, Israeli field aggression and Israeli soldiers occupying our land . . . it is our natural right to confront them, fight them and defend our land." However, Nasrallah pledged to abide by the cease-fire once it began.

Israeli Defense Minister Amir Peretz countered that "if anyone dares to use force against Israeli defense forces, we will see this as a violation of the cease-fire agreement."

Political observers, mindful that the late Yasser Arafat's many pledges to abide by cease-fires never held up, were less than optimistic that the U.N. resolution spelled an end to the violence, which so far has claimed some 1,200 lives, mostly in Lebanon.

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the G-man said:
Yes, but I doubt the U.N. would be pushing for a cease fire if Hezbollah was winning.

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Wonder Boy said:
It's just a matter of time until another series of terror strikes on Israel.

It's the pattern. Most of the time, Israel doesn't retaliate with enough force to eliminate the problem. And when they act to defend their borders and stop attacks on their citizens, virtually everyone except the United States condemns them.

Does anyone remember the last attack by Israel?

It was in 2002. Leading up to 2002, after Israel largely pulled out of the West Bank area, and gave Palestinians about 95% control of their region in the West Bank, did the Palestinians respect this? Did Palestinians give Israel the slightest peace in exchance for their concessions?
No.
They pressed on with random shelling and suicide bombings.

And the "evil" state of Israel did a major sweep of the West Bank, to wipe out the terror centers.

Same thing now, with the 2000 Israeli withdrawal from Southern Lebanon. And last year's complete withdrawal from Gaza. Once again, instead of being honored as a major step by Israel toward mutual respect and peace, it was simply interpreted by the Palestinians as weakness by Israel, for them to intimidate Israel and press for even more concessions, toward the ultimate goal of complete annihilation of Israel.


With the foreign aid given to the Palestinian Authority over the last few decades, the West Bank and Gaza could be a thriving economy to equal Israel, providing beautiful cities and good jobs and incomes for Palestinians.

But instead they've consistently chosen war, and rendered themselves impoverished, only to ironically blame their fate on Israel.

Again, how can any nation help the Palestinians, when these people are so indoctrinated and consumed with hate for Israel?
There is no way.

And a "two-state solution" as proposed, is really just a plan to move one step closer to the annihilation of Israel.

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Chant said:
...But for the people on the streets in Palestine and Lebanon all it looks like is that Israel, the "little Satan" is killing their children. Of course they hate Israel. And while some of that hate Israel has brought upon themselves and "earned" it most of it is blind hatred for something they do not understand. Or dont' want to understand...

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