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Time to worry?
John Donovan, SI.comI am now, officially, worried about the Tigers. I'm sure that concerns the Tigers, that I'm losing sleep over their situation. I'm sure all the good, nail-biting fans in Motown really want to hear that I feel their pain too.
But somebody outside of Detroit has to worry. I mean, this four-game series against the Twins in Minneapolis that starts Thursday is huger than huge. It's a season-maker. Or a season-breaker. The damn Twins are only four back, for crying out loud. And the White Sox are only 4½ behind.
The Tigers suddenly are losing games that they won so easily just a month ago. They're absolutely painful to watch at the plate. They're a little beat up, and their starters ... they're still good, aren't they, the starters?
Are the Tigers about to choke away the postseason?
Can things get any worse?
What's wrong?
1. Is that an apple in your throat?
You know the pressure of a pennant race is getting to the Tigers when the Tigers admit that the pressure is getting to them.
"I think it's good to be nervous. And I am," manager Jim Leyland told reporters. "I think it's bad to be scared, and I'm not. There's a major difference."
Just a month ago the Tigers had a seemingly insurmountable 10-game lead in the American League Central. Since then they are 9-19.
They just lost a series to the Mariners. They've won exactly one series in the last month's worth of games, when they took two out of three in Boston. Their pitching is starting to fray, their hitters are slumping and there are signs that the Tigers are beginning to grasp at straws.
On Wednesday, Leyland asked his coaches for some dummy lineups, and his guys gave him six to choose from. It's not a patently bad idea. New thinking always should be welcome.
But a confident team doesn't do that. Plus, it sure would have been better if the lineup had actually worked.
After the loss Wednesday to Seattle, the Tigers came back into the clubhouse to learn that popular DH Dmitri Young had been released for "performance reasons." That may or may not be the case -- it sure seems awfully fishy -- but Young was hitting .292 with a .504 slugging percentage since his comeback from alcohol rehab in July. If the whole team was hitting that way, nobody would be nervous. Me included.
The Tigers insist that they have things under control, that they're approaching their jobs as they always have, that this is just a blip. But ...
"It would be stupid to say we don't feel the pressure," backup catcher Vance Wilson told The Detroit News, "because that would be a lie."
2. Where did the middle infield go?
Second baseman Placido Polanco, who fit nicely into the No. 2 slot in the lineup, knocked out his shoulder during the series win in Boston on Aug. 15. He won't be back until later this month. And shortstop Carlos Guillen has been out since last weekend after straining a hamstring.
To be fair, the Tigers were having problems even when these guys were healthy. The team had just suffered through a season-high five-game losing streak when Polanco was hurt diving for a ball in short right field in Boston. And the team was well into its tailspin by the time Guillen tweaked his hamstring.
Still, finding replacements for Polanco and Guillen has proven tricky. Since Polanco's injury, left fielder Craig Monroe is hitting just .257, with a .317 on-base percentage out of Polanco's No. 2 spot in the lineup. Polanco's main replacement at second base, Omar Infante, actually is hitting much better than anyone should expect (.327, .365 on-base in 14 starts). For some reason, though, the Tigers remain intent on playing Neifi Perez, and Ramon Santiago on occasion. Neither is as capable at the plate as Polanco, Guillen or Infante.
The disruption clearly hasn't helped matters over the last 28 games. But the truth is, this was a faulty lineup in a lot of ways before any injuries.
3. Can anyone here hit left-handed? I mean with some power?
Once he returned from his drug rehab, Young, a switch-hitter, was supposed to be the team's answer for its lack of left-handed pop. Now the Tigers are back to where they were in July.
First baseman Sean Casey is a lefty swinger with a .300 lifetime average. But he's hitting only .236 since his trade from the Pirates, and after a decent start with Detroit, he's driven in only four runs since Aug. 16. Casey, never known as a power hitter, hasn't hit a home run since Aug. 12.
And he's the team's best middle-of-the-order, healthy left-handed power hitter.
The only other notable guys who can swing from that side are switch-hitter Perez (.271 slugging against right-handers), switch-hitter Guillen (a .544 slugging percentage against righties this year, but he's hurt) and Curtis Granderson (he's slugging .430 against righties, but he's a leadoff man and in a terrible slump).
The Tigers, overall, rank fifth in the AL in slugging percentage against right-handed pitchers (.450). But in their last 28 games the Tigers, as a team, are slugging only .345 against righties. Their lefties, the guys who are supposed to hit righties, during that skid? Just .239 with a .353 slugging percentage.
4. So can anyone around here hit?
Here are some ugly numbers, all during this 9-19 dive. Skip this part unless you really want to get nauseous:
Granderson: a .177 batting average, .225 on-base percentage, .302 slugging percentage with eight runs scored in 26 games. And this is the team's leadoff hitter?
Marcus Thames: .209/.277/.512, seven runs scored.
Magglio Ordoñez: The team's cleanup hitter is hitting .267, with a lame .300 on-base, a weak .410 slugging and just three homers and nine RBIs in all 28 games.
Ivan Rodriguez: The No. 3 hitter is in a .242/.273/.305 slump with only one home run and six RBIs in 26 games.
Casey: .250/.290/.330, one homer, 15 RBIs.
Overall, in this 9-19 nightmare, the Tigers are hitting .246 as a team with a .294 on-base percentage -- that is not good -- and a .386 slugging percentage. That's pretty terrible too.
So, to answer the question: No. No one on this team can hit right now.
One of the biggest criticisms of the '06 Tigers, even when they were 30 games over .500, was that they were too free-swinging. Before they embarked on this lost month of games, they struck out nearly 2.7 times for every walk they took. During the stretch, they've struck out almost three times for every walk they've taken.
They, like many of their fans in Detroit, are getting less patient by the pitch.
5. And what about those starters?
Kenny Rogers, the old man in the rotation, has been the rock of it, too. In the last 28 games, the 41-year-old lefty has started six, gone 4-1 with a 1.57 ERA and made it through seven innings in five of those starts. Rogers, clearly, is not the problem.
The fear, as has been well documented, is that the young pitchers in the Tigers' rotation -- mainly 23-year-olds Jeremy Bonderman and Justin Verlander -- would tire under the strain of added innings and the pennant race. During the 9-19 stretch, the two youngsters have done nothing to quell the rumblings.
When you add in Nate Robertson's efforts, some rough outings from 24-year-old deposed starter Zach Miner (0-3, 8.53 in the three starts he made) and Wilfredo Ledezma's starts, the Detroit rotation, minus ol' man Rogers, is 3-13 with a 5.04 ERA in the last 28 games.
Who would've figured that we could use more of Kenny Rogers?
So as not to get too doomy and gloomy about this, the Tigers still are sitting relatively pretty. Even if they continue playing as poorly as they have in the last 28 games, they'd still win 92 games. Baseball Prospectus says they still have an almost 87 percent chance of winning the AL Central, and a nearly 98 percent chance of making the playoffs (although those numbers are both dropping).
They still have six games remaining against the Royals (Detroit is 11-1 this season against K.C.). And they finish up with six games at home (three against Toronto, three against the Royals).
So maybe Leyland's right. Nervous, not scared. Not even now, with the huge series against the Twins upon us, in the Metrodome.
Nervous. Not scared.
So why am I still sweating?
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PJP AND MAGNETO WERE RIGHT
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Some guy in SI is panicking. Quick, call the paramedics.
Seriously, not worried here. No one in their right mind expects the Tigers to win the World Series. I think the Yankees have the best chance this year, if Rivera can stay healthy. I would have said Boston, but man oh man have injuries killed their season.
The Tigers are free swingers, and that alone is the reason this team is in a slump. There was definitely something wrong with Young for him to get released. He probably started struggling off the field again. I would care, but I never liked the guy. His style of batting has been everything wrong with this team. It's contagious, just like good hitting, and with the Tigers' best hitter out (Polanco), everyone started emulating the guy they like the most. Young has been a cancer in the room for years, just because the young guys like him so much, and have always copied his approach, which sucks on most days.
Last night, however, the Tigers looked fine. I don't know why they have been picked on for having young pitching in key areas, when other successful teams have been praised for the same thing. I just think no one likes the Tigers, mainly because no one likes when a laughing stock finds success. It's no fun when the team you picked on the most can't be picked on anymore.
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Quote:
PJP said:
PJP AND MAGNETO WERE RIGHT
You can't be right about this until the season is over. Magneto, on the other hand, he can be right.
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If the Reds can't be in the postseason (they gave us a nice run, but they've hit September and their lack of pitching depth has finally caught up to them...kudos for them giving Reds' fans a fun summer where we could care about baseball), then I'll throw support behind the Tigers.
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This same thing happened with the White Sox last year. They had a big lead, the Indians closed the gap, and then they pulled away at the end.
Quote:
Brad Lee said:
No one in their right mind expects the Tigers to win the World Series.
I don't think that's true. Lots of right-minded people are thinking and saying that very thing. Afterall, the White Sox won it last year, and they were very similar to this Detroit team.
The Tigers have been the talk of the league almost all year.
Quote:
His style of batting has been everything wrong with this team. It's contagious, just like good hitting, and with the Tigers' best hitter out (Polanco), everyone started emulating the guy they like the most. Young has been a cancer in the room for years, just because the young guys like him so much, and have always copied his approach, which sucks on most days.
Well, firstly, Polanco is not the team's best hitter. Infact, this year, of the regulars(the eight guys who have played in at least 100 games so far), he's been the worst. He had a fluke season last year, and he's returned to Earth.
I really don't think you're giving the Detroit hitters any credit here. You make them sound like infants. Players don't just copy some guy's hitting tendencies because they like him. Especially not when said player is hitting as poorly as Dmitri Young was. These players didn't learn how to play baseball yesterday. They've been playing the game for years, and have done quite well, to be in the position they're currently in.
If you want to blame somebody, blame the hitting coach.
Actually, come to think of it...which "young guys" are you even talking about? Chris Shelton and Curtis Granderson don't hit like Dmitri Young. Craig Monroe and Marcus Thames are almost 30. The lineup is a fairly old one.
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I just think no one likes the Tigers, mainly because no one likes when a laughing stock finds success. It's no fun when the team you picked on the most can't be picked on anymore.
PJP aside, everyone loves the Tigers. They won't shut up about them. Seriously.
And in my experience, its usually the former losers that get the most love when they start winning. Look at the Bengals in football, or the Clippers or Mavericks in basketball. The Mets. The Cubs. People feel sorry for them.
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ESPN can't stand the Tigers because they are a threat to the east coast teams. And SI has been on and off. I see this panick article as an attack on the team, not a sign of concern. Some people really want the Tigers to fall apart and miss the post season because that's news worthy. They have been the best team all year, and if they fail at the end, it's something to laugh at. Few sports writers like Detroit (any Detroit club).
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I couldn't go five minutes last year without hearing someone on ESPN, or fox sports, or something, talking about how amazingly awesomely great the Detroit Pistons were. Just look at the postseason thread, when I linked to the ESPN prediction page.
It's been similar this year with the Tigers.
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Quote:
MisterJLA said:
Maybe Next Year!
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
If the Reds can't be in the postseason (they gave us a nice run, but they've hit September and their lack of pitching depth has finally caught up to them...kudos for them giving Reds' fans a fun summer where we could care about baseball), then I'll throw support behind the Tigers.
whether the Reds or Tigers make the post season or not is irrelevant honestly.....both teams have had hugely successful years and have alot to build on if the respective managements don't fuck it up.
I nevr had anything really against the Tigers( i just liked bothering Bradley) in fact I like seeing new teams do well. I just don't think they are better than the Yankees this year and only time will tell on that one.
And Animalman is more or less right about most sportwriters going ga ga over the Tigers....it's another thing that used to irk me too.
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Last week, Tim Kurkjian, on ESPN Radio's MIKE AND MIKE IN THE MORNING said, "Sports writers root for stories."
The Tigers are a story, feelgood or otherwise.
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And, in furtherance of that, I don't think sportswriters would root for the Tigers to fail, because the Tigers failing isn't much of a story. Very few predicted that the Tigers would be where they are right now. Their triumph is the story.
As for the Reds...I'd be fairly annoyed if I was a Reds fan. They gave away two valuable young players that they could have built around(or, at the very least, traded for something better than a couple of middle relievers) because they grossly overestimated their chances at making the playoffs. A bad trade brought on by bad talent assessment. The NL Central is an awful division that will be up for grabs in the next year or two, and the Reds hurt their chances of being the team to take over.
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I've seen some negative stuff written and said about the Tigers this year, and I guess that since that was brought to the fore front over here, the good stuff has been ignored. Local media will do that to create a stroy.
Unfortunately, I don't think there are any teams better than the Yankees this year. From what I've seen, if Rivera is healthy, they are unbeatable.
As for the Tigers/Twins series, it's really pathetic when a team has a pitcher that won't give up more than two runs in seven innings, but the team consistantly can't score three runs when he pitches to win a low scoring game. Robertson just can't catch a break lately. If Bonderman can find his stuff today, than all is good again. He's do for a great start, but he hasn't had it mentally for some time. I'll feel a lot better when Polanco and Maroth are back. Hopefully, it won't be to late when they return.
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If Pedro's healthy, I like the Mets, but that's a big if.
The Yankee rotation has been pretty weak at times this year, so I wouldn't go so far as to say they're "unbeatable". Really, if the last few years have proved anything, it's that any playoff that gets hot can win it. Top to bottom, the Giants, Yankees and Astros were better in the regular season than the Angels, Marlins and White Sox, respectively.
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That Wang guy can really pitch, though.
The Tigers are embarrassing themselves right now. At least they have three good pitchers if they make the playoffs, but one can't get the team to buy runs for himself. This will be an exciting pennant race.
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Quote:
Rob Kamphausen said:
Time to worry?
John Donovan, SI.com
I am now, officially, worried about the Tigers. I'm sure that concerns the Tigers, that I'm losing sleep over their situation. I'm sure all the good, nail-biting fans in Motown really want to hear that I feel their pain too.
But somebody outside of Detroit has to worry. I mean, this four-game series against the Twins in Minneapolis that starts Thursday is huger than huge. It's a season-maker. Or a season-breaker. The damn Twins are only four back, for crying out loud. And the White Sox are only 4½ behind.
The Tigers suddenly are losing games that they won so easily just a month ago. They're absolutely painful to watch at the plate. They're a little beat up, and their starters ... they're still good, aren't they, the starters?
Are the Tigers about to choke away the postseason?
Can things get any worse?
What's wrong?
1. Is that an apple in your throat?
You know the pressure of a pennant race is getting to the Tigers when the Tigers admit that the pressure is getting to them.
"I think it's good to be nervous. And I am," manager Jim Leyland told reporters. "I think it's bad to be scared, and I'm not. There's a major difference."
Just a month ago the Tigers had a seemingly insurmountable 10-game lead in the American League Central. Since then they are 9-19.
They just lost a series to the Mariners. They've won exactly one series in the last month's worth of games, when they took two out of three in Boston. Their pitching is starting to fray, their hitters are slumping and there are signs that the Tigers are beginning to grasp at straws.
On Wednesday, Leyland asked his coaches for some dummy lineups, and his guys gave him six to choose from. It's not a patently bad idea. New thinking always should be welcome.
But a confident team doesn't do that. Plus, it sure would have been better if the lineup had actually worked.
After the loss Wednesday to Seattle, the Tigers came back into the clubhouse to learn that popular DH Dmitri Young had been released for "performance reasons." That may or may not be the case -- it sure seems awfully fishy -- but Young was hitting .292 with a .504 slugging percentage since his comeback from alcohol rehab in July. If the whole team was hitting that way, nobody would be nervous. Me included.
The Tigers insist that they have things under control, that they're approaching their jobs as they always have, that this is just a blip. But ...
"It would be stupid to say we don't feel the pressure," backup catcher Vance Wilson told The Detroit News, "because that would be a lie."
2. Where did the middle infield go?
Second baseman Placido Polanco, who fit nicely into the No. 2 slot in the lineup, knocked out his shoulder during the series win in Boston on Aug. 15. He won't be back until later this month. And shortstop Carlos Guillen has been out since last weekend after straining a hamstring.
To be fair, the Tigers were having problems even when these guys were healthy. The team had just suffered through a season-high five-game losing streak when Polanco was hurt diving for a ball in short right field in Boston. And the team was well into its tailspin by the time Guillen tweaked his hamstring.
Still, finding replacements for Polanco and Guillen has proven tricky. Since Polanco's injury, left fielder Craig Monroe is hitting just .257, with a .317 on-base percentage out of Polanco's No. 2 spot in the lineup. Polanco's main replacement at second base, Omar Infante, actually is hitting much better than anyone should expect (.327, .365 on-base in 14 starts). For some reason, though, the Tigers remain intent on playing Neifi Perez, and Ramon Santiago on occasion. Neither is as capable at the plate as Polanco, Guillen or Infante.
The disruption clearly hasn't helped matters over the last 28 games. But the truth is, this was a faulty lineup in a lot of ways before any injuries.
3. Can anyone here hit left-handed? I mean with some power?
Once he returned from his drug rehab, Young, a switch-hitter, was supposed to be the team's answer for its lack of left-handed pop. Now the Tigers are back to where they were in July.
First baseman Sean Casey is a lefty swinger with a .300 lifetime average. But he's hitting only .236 since his trade from the Pirates, and after a decent start with Detroit, he's driven in only four runs since Aug. 16. Casey, never known as a power hitter, hasn't hit a home run since Aug. 12.
And he's the team's best middle-of-the-order, healthy left-handed power hitter.
The only other notable guys who can swing from that side are switch-hitter Perez (.271 slugging against right-handers), switch-hitter Guillen (a .544 slugging percentage against righties this year, but he's hurt) and Curtis Granderson (he's slugging .430 against righties, but he's a leadoff man and in a terrible slump).
The Tigers, overall, rank fifth in the AL in slugging percentage against right-handed pitchers (.450). But in their last 28 games the Tigers, as a team, are slugging only .345 against righties. Their lefties, the guys who are supposed to hit righties, during that skid? Just .239 with a .353 slugging percentage.
4. So can anyone around here hit?
Here are some ugly numbers, all during this 9-19 dive. Skip this part unless you really want to get nauseous:
Granderson: a .177 batting average, .225 on-base percentage, .302 slugging percentage with eight runs scored in 26 games. And this is the team's leadoff hitter?
Marcus Thames: .209/.277/.512, seven runs scored.
Magglio Ordoñez: The team's cleanup hitter is hitting .267, with a lame .300 on-base, a weak .410 slugging and just three homers and nine RBIs in all 28 games.
Ivan Rodriguez: The No. 3 hitter is in a .242/.273/.305 slump with only one home run and six RBIs in 26 games.
Casey: .250/.290/.330, one homer, 15 RBIs.
Overall, in this 9-19 nightmare, the Tigers are hitting .246 as a team with a .294 on-base percentage -- that is not good -- and a .386 slugging percentage. That's pretty terrible too.
So, to answer the question: No. No one on this team can hit right now.
One of the biggest criticisms of the '06 Tigers, even when they were 30 games over .500, was that they were too free-swinging. Before they embarked on this lost month of games, they struck out nearly 2.7 times for every walk they took. During the stretch, they've struck out almost three times for every walk they've taken.
They, like many of their fans in Detroit, are getting less patient by the pitch.
5. And what about those starters?
Kenny Rogers, the old man in the rotation, has been the rock of it, too. In the last 28 games, the 41-year-old lefty has started six, gone 4-1 with a 1.57 ERA and made it through seven innings in five of those starts. Rogers, clearly, is not the problem.
The fear, as has been well documented, is that the young pitchers in the Tigers' rotation -- mainly 23-year-olds Jeremy Bonderman and Justin Verlander -- would tire under the strain of added innings and the pennant race. During the 9-19 stretch, the two youngsters have done nothing to quell the rumblings.
When you add in Nate Robertson's efforts, some rough outings from 24-year-old deposed starter Zach Miner (0-3, 8.53 in the three starts he made) and Wilfredo Ledezma's starts, the Detroit rotation, minus ol' man Rogers, is 3-13 with a 5.04 ERA in the last 28 games.
Who would've figured that we could use more of Kenny Rogers?
So as not to get too doomy and gloomy about this, the Tigers still are sitting relatively pretty. Even if they continue playing as poorly as they have in the last 28 games, they'd still win 92 games. Baseball Prospectus says they still have an almost 87 percent chance of winning the AL Central, and a nearly 98 percent chance of making the playoffs (although those numbers are both dropping).
They still have six games remaining against the Royals (Detroit is 11-1 this season against K.C.). And they finish up with six games at home (three against Toronto, three against the Royals).
So maybe Leyland's right. Nervous, not scared. Not even now, with the huge series against the Twins upon us, in the Metrodome.
Nervous. Not scared.
So why am I still sweating?
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i hereby accept this use of the most powerful force.
but equally apply it to:
Quote:
MisterJLA said:
Quote:
MisterJLA said:
Maybe Next Year!
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That's the name of Animalman's baseball column...
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you can't name your column a graemlin!
...although...
no. no you can't.
...but if you could...
no!
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MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 949
500+ posts
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500+ posts
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 949 |
Eddie Guerrero said
"I've been here before. Backed into a corner, another huge obstacle, time to make a choice. You seem to be a bit preoccupied, Brock. You're not gonna be facing Eddie Guerrero the opponent tonight. You're gonna be facing Latino Heat!! They say there's No Way Out. I can think of at least one, ese (sp?). Can you?"
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