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observe...there are many more examples this one just showed up today.
Last edited by Pig Iran; 2007-04-23 7:44 PM.
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Quote:
Pig Iran said:
observe...there are many more examples this one just showed up today.
You, sir, have a freakishly good memory.
This is disappointing, though. I really liked Land's art... 
 Dear, sweet Harley Kwink...I'm madly in love with you. Marry me! We can go to Canadia. Or Boston or something. It'll be grand...You know the cookies are a given. They are ALWAYS a given. You could dump me tomorrow and you'd still get the cookies. Boston..shit, wherever dyke weddings were legalized. And where better to rub their little piggie noses in how bad they suck than right on their doorstep? What are they gonna do? Be jealous of you? Stare furiously at your tah-tahs? Not willingly give you cookies, but instead begrudgingly give you their cookies? Woman, time to wake up to the powers you wield - Uschi
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a lot of artists swipe or "homage." it's actually pretty common.
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Was he paying "homage" to the unknown photographer or the hot chick? This just seems lazy to me.
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Quote:
Im Not Mister Mxypltk said:
Was he paying "homage" to the unknown photographer or the hot chick?
Yes.
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Quote:
Grimm said:
a lot of artists swipe or "homage." it's actually pretty common.
Not really-they are not supposed to. If they give credit it is an homage. if they don't it's a swipe which is wrong.
Any artist could tell you that if they copy photos it isn't art-it's copying which any decent artist can do. Used in conjunction with a light-box it would only take 1 minute to lay in the basic form of the copied figure.
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Quote:
Pig Iran said:
Quote:
Grimm said:
a lot of artists swipe or "homage." it's actually pretty common.
Not really
yes, really.
Quote:
-they are not supposed to.
there's a lot of things that people aren't supposed to do. yet they still happen.
Quote:
If they give credit it is an homage. if they don't it's a swipe which is wrong.
that's well documented. it still happens all the time.
Quote:
Any artist could tell you that if they copy photos it isn't art-it's copying which any decent artist can do. Used in conjunction with a light-box it would only take 1 minute to lay in the basic form of the copied figure.
and Alex Ross, Tim Bradstreet, and many others have all used this technique.
I'm not arguing the definition of the term. I'm just saying it's a lot more frequent than most people realize.
for example: Most of the covers of John Cassaday's Captain America run are swiped from WW2 patriotic art posters. did he give credit for them? He's admitted to it interviews, but if you didn't read those interviews, there's nothing else on the books giving credit for that.
It happens a lot in the comics field, and has for some time. Bob Kane's been a prominent example of Golden Age swiping, but another one is Hawkman artist Sheldon Moldoff, who used to swipe a good bit from Flash Gordon artist, Alex Raymond.
it's nothing new in the field.
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Is copying a picture of a model really swiping?
If thats the case then surely life drawing with models and still life is also swiping!
Plus, with the arms, hands and hair, there is enough differences, and its a pretty bog standard pose!
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I agree with Nowie. There are enough differences between the drawing and the photo that I don't think you can call it "swiping."
BTW: "swiping," as the term was originally used in the G(olden) A(ge), was not the copying of photos or reference material but of actually copying other artists' drawings.
There's a good discussion of it in Jules Pfeiffers' "the Great Comic Book Heroes," where he discusses how, in the day, some artists were so blatant about it that a character would look different from panel to panel, sometimes looking like a Kirby character, sometimes an Alex Raymond character, sometimes a Milton Caniff character, etc.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
I agree with Nowie. There are enough differences between the drawing and the photo that I don't think you can call it "swiping."
I gotta say, reading this I just wonder - what is the difference? Seriously, artists draw from pics all the time. Not everyone can be Frazetta....
Quote:
BTW: "swiping," as the term was originally used in the G(olden) A(ge), was not the copying of photos or reference material but of actually copying other artists' drawings.
I'm glad somebody understands what "GA" really stands for...
Dear, sweet Harley Kwink...I'm madly in love with you. Marry me! We can go to Canadia. Or Boston or something. It'll be grand...You know the cookies are a given. They are ALWAYS a given. You could dump me tomorrow and you'd still get the cookies. Boston..shit, wherever dyke weddings were legalized. And where better to rub their little piggie noses in how bad they suck than right on their doorstep? What are they gonna do? Be jealous of you? Stare furiously at your tah-tahs? Not willingly give you cookies, but instead begrudgingly give you their cookies? Woman, time to wake up to the powers you wield - Uschi
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Quote:
harleykwin said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
I agree with Nowie. There are enough differences between the drawing and the photo that I don't think you can call it "swiping."
I gotta say, reading this I just wonder - what is the difference? Seriously, artists draw from pics all the time. Not everyone can be Frazetta....
Quote:
BTW: "swiping," as the term was originally used in the G(reen) A(rrow), was not the copying of photos or reference material but of actually copying other artists' drawings.
I'm glad somebody understands what "GA" really stands for...
all fixed! 
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Using a model as reference is no big deal, but it does becomes a problem when they copy the composition of a photograph, since someone had to work to achieve that composition (probably the photographer, though sometimes they have other people for this sort of thing).
The chick in the picture Land copied didn't just sit down to take a shit, there are hours of work in that photo. Land is stealing that work because he's lazy.
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Quote:
Im Not Mister Mxypltk said:
Using a model as reference is no big deal, but it does becomes a problem when they copy the composition of a photograph, since someone had to work to achieve that composition (probably the photographer, though sometimes they have other people for this sort of thing).
The chick in the picture Land copied didn't just sit down to take a shit, there are hours of work in that photo. Land is stealing that work because he's lazy.
it's not limited to Land. like I said, it's happened all through the history of the medium. it's one of many reasons why comics have traditionally been looked down upon as a derivative and less important medium.
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Quote:
Stupid Doog said:
Quote:
harleykwin said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
I agree with Nowie. There are enough differences between the drawing and the photo that I don't think you can call it "swiping."
I gotta say, reading this I just wonder - what is the difference? Seriously, artists draw from pics all the time. Not everyone can be Frazetta....
Quote:
BTW: "swiping," as the term was originally used in the G(reen) A(rrow), was not the copying of photos or reference material but of actually copying other artists' drawings.
I'm glad somebody understands what "GA" really stands for...
all fixed!
Ha!
Wait. Who are you again? 
Dear, sweet Harley Kwink...I'm madly in love with you. Marry me! We can go to Canadia. Or Boston or something. It'll be grand...You know the cookies are a given. They are ALWAYS a given. You could dump me tomorrow and you'd still get the cookies. Boston..shit, wherever dyke weddings were legalized. And where better to rub their little piggie noses in how bad they suck than right on their doorstep? What are they gonna do? Be jealous of you? Stare furiously at your tah-tahs? Not willingly give you cookies, but instead begrudgingly give you their cookies? Woman, time to wake up to the powers you wield - Uschi
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I'm the silver age Stupid Dogg
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Quote:
Stupid Doog said:
I'm the silver age Stupid Doog
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Yeah, after the Kamphausen reboot.
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Quote:
Stupid Doog said:
I'm the silver age Stupid Dogg
I thought they killed you off in the last crisis?
Dear, sweet Harley Kwink...I'm madly in love with you. Marry me! We can go to Canadia. Or Boston or something. It'll be grand...You know the cookies are a given. They are ALWAYS a given. You could dump me tomorrow and you'd still get the cookies. Boston..shit, wherever dyke weddings were legalized. And where better to rub their little piggie noses in how bad they suck than right on their doorstep? What are they gonna do? Be jealous of you? Stare furiously at your tah-tahs? Not willingly give you cookies, but instead begrudgingly give you their cookies? Woman, time to wake up to the powers you wield - Uschi
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Quote:
harleykwin said:
Quote:
Stupid Doog said:
I'm the silver age Stupid Dogg
I thought they killed you off in the last crisis?
the editorial decision was overturned at the last moment. he was too popular among the fans. plus, the idea to replace him as Stupid Doog with formerly deceased poster Fragman didn't sit well with the fanbase.
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that was the green arrow stupid dogg. I'm the silver age version with the kick ass bird poop in my hair.
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Quote:
Stupid Doog said:
Yeah, after the Kamphausen reboot.
so you're also the gay stupid doog
big_pimp_tim-made it cool to roll in the first damn place! Mon Jun 11 2007 09:27 PM- harley finally rolled with me "I'm working with him...he's young but, there is much potential. He can apprentice with me and then he's yours for final training. He will remember the face of his father... Some day, Knutreturns just may be the greatest of us all...."-THE bastard
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No, that was retconned out. Now I carry a man-purse.
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Quote:
Grimm said:
it's not limited to Land. like I said, it's happened all through the history of the medium. it's one of many reasons why comics have traditionally been looked down upon as a derivative and less important medium.
Probably, but I think it's more common these days, since the realist style is prevalent. You won't catch Mike Allred or Darwyn Cooke doing this. Allred was accused of swiping a picture once, and he proved he was innocent by providing photos of the actual place he based his drawing on. It's an insult to be accused of swiping a photo, but sketching a place is OK cause you're doing the hard work yourself.
Same goes for more expressionistic guys, like Bill Sienkeiiieruuwiewieiwieweuwerweuruweruweuicks.
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Quote:
Knutreturns said:
Quote:
Stupid Doog said:
Yeah, after the Kamphausen reboot.
so you're also the gay stupid doog
Im sorry i forgot.....not that theres anything wrong with that...
big_pimp_tim-made it cool to roll in the first damn place! Mon Jun 11 2007 09:27 PM- harley finally rolled with me "I'm working with him...he's young but, there is much potential. He can apprentice with me and then he's yours for final training. He will remember the face of his father... Some day, Knutreturns just may be the greatest of us all...."-THE bastard
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Quote:
Stupid Doog said:
No, that was retconned out. Now I carry a man-purse.
Like Batgirl's?
Dear, sweet Harley Kwink...I'm madly in love with you. Marry me! We can go to Canadia. Or Boston or something. It'll be grand...You know the cookies are a given. They are ALWAYS a given. You could dump me tomorrow and you'd still get the cookies. Boston..shit, wherever dyke weddings were legalized. And where better to rub their little piggie noses in how bad they suck than right on their doorstep? What are they gonna do? Be jealous of you? Stare furiously at your tah-tahs? Not willingly give you cookies, but instead begrudgingly give you their cookies? Woman, time to wake up to the powers you wield - Uschi
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Quote:
Stupid Doog said:
No, that was retconned out. Now I carry a man-purse.
Parallax's fault I bet.
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oh i was gonna go anti-monitor...
big_pimp_tim-made it cool to roll in the first damn place! Mon Jun 11 2007 09:27 PM- harley finally rolled with me "I'm working with him...he's young but, there is much potential. He can apprentice with me and then he's yours for final training. He will remember the face of his father... Some day, Knutreturns just may be the greatest of us all...."-THE bastard
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wait...wait...Johnny DC... 
big_pimp_tim-made it cool to roll in the first damn place! Mon Jun 11 2007 09:27 PM- harley finally rolled with me "I'm working with him...he's young but, there is much potential. He can apprentice with me and then he's yours for final training. He will remember the face of his father... Some day, Knutreturns just may be the greatest of us all...."-THE bastard
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Quote:
Im Not Mister Mxypltk said:
Quote:
Grimm said:
it's not limited to Land. like I said, it's happened all through the history of the medium. it's one of many reasons why comics have traditionally been looked down upon as a derivative and less important medium.
Probably, but I think it's more common these days, since the realist style is prevalent. You won't catch Mike Allred or Darwyn Cooke doing this. Allred was accused of swiping a picture once, and he proved he was innocent by providing photos of the actual place he based his drawing on. It's an insult to be accused of swiping a photo, but sketching a place is OK cause you're doing the hard work yourself.
Same goes for more expressionistic guys, like Bill Sienkeiiieruuwiewieiwieweuwerweuruweruweuicks.
it is pretty common, which was my initial point. Allred, Cooke, and co. are generally more concerned with telling their stories than trying to recreate something someone else already did.
Their styles are also evocative of other artists without being derivative, which is also significant of the thought processes behind whether you find them swiping or homaging or whatever.
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Well, a photo is a copyrighted piece of someone else's work-which is called art. Byrne or whoever can copy another artists work as an homage if they put "after Kirby" or some such which establishes that the pose and layout was copied as an homage of a great piece of work.
By all accounts Land, Liefeld, Lee or whoever should put "after ansel adams" or whoever if they copy a photo for reference. It's not such a big deal with guns, appliances, cars, or furniture which are pretty generic visually. But basing your work on photos or video of rebecca romjin or any other model is copyright infringement if the artist wanted to pursue it.
If you reference that you "copied" the image and give credit it's fine I believe.
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Quote:
Pig Iran said:
Well, a photo is a copyrighted piece of someone else's work-which is called art. Byrne or whoever can copy another artists work as an homage if they put "after Kirby" or some such which establishes that the pose and layout was copied as an homage of a great piece of work.
By all accounts Land, Liefeld, Lee or whoever should put "after ansel adams" or whoever if they copy a photo for reference. It's not such a big deal with guns, appliances, cars, or furniture which are pretty generic visually. But basing your work on photos or video of rebecca romjin or any other model is copyright infringement if the artist wanted to pursue it.
If you reference that you "copied" the image and give credit it's fine I believe.
But then, using a picture of, say, a friend or a personal photo as a reference would be deemed "copied" - how do you distinguish using a reference picture from using a known picture? Is there a difference? Both are essentially doing the same thing...
Dear, sweet Harley Kwink...I'm madly in love with you. Marry me! We can go to Canadia. Or Boston or something. It'll be grand...You know the cookies are a given. They are ALWAYS a given. You could dump me tomorrow and you'd still get the cookies. Boston..shit, wherever dyke weddings were legalized. And where better to rub their little piggie noses in how bad they suck than right on their doorstep? What are they gonna do? Be jealous of you? Stare furiously at your tah-tahs? Not willingly give you cookies, but instead begrudgingly give you their cookies? Woman, time to wake up to the powers you wield - Uschi
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If you take the photo yourself or pay someone to do it -it's your art. you can copy it all you want. if you pay a model to pose-the poses and time are yours...you paid for them.
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Quote:
harleykwin said:
Quote:
Pig Iran said:
Well, a photo is a copyrighted piece of someone else's work-which is called art. Byrne or whoever can copy another artists work as an homage if they put "after Kirby" or some such which establishes that the pose and layout was copied as an homage of a great piece of work.
By all accounts Land, Liefeld, Lee or whoever should put "after ansel adams" or whoever if they copy a photo for reference. It's not such a big deal with guns, appliances, cars, or furniture which are pretty generic visually. But basing your work on photos or video of rebecca romjin or any other model is copyright infringement if the artist wanted to pursue it.
If you reference that you "copied" the image and give credit it's fine I believe.
But then, using a picture of, say, a friend or a personal photo as a reference would be deemed "copied" - how do you distinguish using a reference picture from using a known picture? Is there a difference? Both are essentially doing the same thing...
I would say the difference lies in whether you took the picture, or if you used something that you found somewhere else.
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Quote:
Pig Iran said:
If you take the photo yourself or pay someone to do it -it's your art. you can copy it all you want. if you pay a model to pose-the poses and time are yours...you paid for them.
Quote:
Grimm said:
Quote:
harleykwin said:
Quote:
Pig Iran said:
Well, a photo is a copyrighted piece of someone else's work-which is called art. Byrne or whoever can copy another artists work as an homage if they put "after Kirby" or some such which establishes that the pose and layout was copied as an homage of a great piece of work.
By all accounts Land, Liefeld, Lee or whoever should put "after ansel adams" or whoever if they copy a photo for reference. It's not such a big deal with guns, appliances, cars, or furniture which are pretty generic visually. But basing your work on photos or video of rebecca romjin or any other model is copyright infringement if the artist wanted to pursue it.
If you reference that you "copied" the image and give credit it's fine I believe.
But then, using a picture of, say, a friend or a personal photo as a reference would be deemed "copied" - how do you distinguish using a reference picture from using a known picture? Is there a difference? Both are essentially doing the same thing...
I would say the difference lies in whether you took the picture, or if you used something that you found somewhere else.
Dude, I think there's an echo in here...
Dear, sweet Harley Kwink...I'm madly in love with you. Marry me! We can go to Canadia. Or Boston or something. It'll be grand...You know the cookies are a given. They are ALWAYS a given. You could dump me tomorrow and you'd still get the cookies. Boston..shit, wherever dyke weddings were legalized. And where better to rub their little piggie noses in how bad they suck than right on their doorstep? What are they gonna do? Be jealous of you? Stare furiously at your tah-tahs? Not willingly give you cookies, but instead begrudgingly give you their cookies? Woman, time to wake up to the powers you wield - Uschi
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Dear, sweet Harley Kwink...I'm madly in love with you. Marry me! We can go to Canadia. Or Boston or something. It'll be grand...You know the cookies are a given. They are ALWAYS a given. You could dump me tomorrow and you'd still get the cookies. Boston..shit, wherever dyke weddings were legalized. And where better to rub their little piggie noses in how bad they suck than right on their doorstep? What are they gonna do? Be jealous of you? Stare furiously at your tah-tahs? Not willingly give you cookies, but instead begrudgingly give you their cookies? Woman, time to wake up to the powers you wield - Uschi
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Posts: 33,919 |
I think composition and all that shit make the difference. It's not the same copying a professional photo than a person because if you're drawing them, then you choose the angle, the lighting, the dimensions, the frame, etc. I mean, have you noticed that the photos most people take during their vacations or at parties suck arse? That's because they don't know about composition. If a professional photographer takes a picture of the same person, it'll be completely different because he puts effort and talent into it.
For example, if Land had been given a picture of the same model buying a hot dog, even if it was a full body shot he couldn't have drawn the pin-up he did. In other words, the photographer did all the job for him.
Guys like George Perez, Brian Bolland, etc., don't need to swipe because they've studied the human anathomy and can apply it to any situation they imagine. They also know about composition and sequentual narrative, so they won't just paste a static drawing of someone in the middle of a panel, like other realist artists do. They take the human body into account when they compose the page and use it as another visual element to achieve aesthetic ballance. We don't notice this sort of thing when we're reading, but this is what makes a page by Perez a lot more enjoyable than one by Land.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,546 Likes: 1
living in 1962 15000+ posts
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living in 1962 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,546 Likes: 1 |
. . .who are you and how did you guesses mxy's password?
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 146
I'm Mxy! 100+ posts
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I'm Mxy! 100+ posts
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 146 |
Im Not Mister Mxyzptlk said:
Ok, you're Mxy.
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