RKMBs Forums .::Robegories::. Sports and Wrestling TNA beats WWECW!

And we're surprised by this?

0.6

Fuckin' A.

I guess that Smackdown "merger" didn't do the trick after all.

I liked how they were all "The stars of Smackdown will be on ECW" and by "stars" they meant Mark Henry and Festus and Kenny Dykstra. Hot damn, let me program the tivo! I don't want to miss that!

I honestly haven't watched it in a while, but I knew that it was going to be a sham. WWE uses all of its shows as glorified PPV commercials, but with RAW, they use what they consider to be their best stars to do the shilling. Smackdown is RAW's afterthought, and ECW is the new Heat. They aren't going to waste too much time with a major name like the Undertaker unless it is a one time deal.

Ever since ECW was "brought back", the formula was to put the bogus title on one star, surround him with D list wrestlers, and hope to make a program out of it. Show, Angle, Benoit (whoops!) and now it is Punk. I don't think Punk is a star, but Vince must think so.

Even I don't know where I'm going with this, but the point (I think) is that the new ECW has always been a farce filled with the dregs of the WWE. I used to find it funny and tragic that Tazz and Styles, two men who are shells of what they used to be professionally, would go on and on about "brands" and "extreme wrestling" when it was obvious that the whole program was just Smackdown's leftovers.

I agree with almost everything you said, with the exception of Punk. He (and to a lesser degree the former Johnny Nitro) are the only watchable talents on that show. CM Punk is just about the only thing they've done right.

I mean he doesn't have the name recognition yet. Show, Angle, RVD, and Benoit were legitimate names that were supposed to make anyone watching forget that:

1: The ECW Title doesn't mean diddly squat
2: Just about everybody else on the roster is Thunder/Heat material at best

Quack

it's a small victory, sure, but a victory nonetheless!

Actually I disagree with some of the reasoning behind why WWECW is not scoring so high.
The original ECW did not need big names and did not even need talented wrestlers as it had an edge that WWF and WCW lacked.

This is why the ECW originals have looked so bad in WWE.
Most of them were never that great at wrestling, but through holy shit moments, nobody ever noticed or complained.

With WWECW, they actually have some of the more talented guys on the roster in ECW, but because its format is identical to Raw & SD, it just comes across, as JLA says, like Heat or Velocity.
If those guys on the roster were allowed to actually be ECW wrestlers, then it would not need big name wrestlers.
Just as TNA's X-Division was where all the real talent was, and was filled with largely lesser known guys, it shows that good product can overcome the lack of star power.
TNA is now treading the same path as WWE though with the X-Division being severly underutilised in favour of "star" names.
Its no surprise that in the last year or so, there has been a lot of negative feedback from proper wrestling fans, but has picked up a lot of WWE fans (and by WWE fans, I mean those fans who think that Cena, Orton and Batista are kewl).

In some ways its a benefit to TNA as obviously any increase in viewing figures is a boon, but in the long run, they could end up like WCW.

actually the original ECW did have quite a few talented wrestlers. Shane Douglas, Dean Malenko, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit (who?), 2 Cold Scorpio, Rob Van Dam, Lance Storm, Chris Candido, The Eliminators, Taz, Raven, etc.

the thing was, they were booked to their strengths and allowed to actually wrestle. just as guys like Sandman, Sabu, Tommy Dreamer, Brian Lee, Bam Bam Bigelow, The Gangstas, The Dudleys, and so on were booked to their strengths and allowed more brawling/hardcore/holy shit moments.

the key was the booking as Heyman knew how to book to people's strengths and cover up their weaknesses, where as most of the booking in the E over the last several years seems like it's geared more towards covering up what people are good at and exposing their weak points.

TNA, to a degree, books towards peoples strengths as well. They've made guys like Tomko and Steiner look good.

I think Tomko's improved a lot since spending time in Japan. I do agree though, they have used him very well. he's done a great straight man role playing off of Christian, AJ, Angle, etc. so definitely chalk that one up for one they've done right.

I didnt say there was no talented wrestlers, as I fully agree that the likes of Storm, Jericho and Benoit etc were incredibly talented, but guys mostly associated with ECW were the extreme guys.
As you say, Heyman was never gonna book Sandman in a technical wrestling match cause it would never work.
When WWECW started, the bulk of the "originals" signed were the extreme guys, and they were forever being booked in non-extreme matches.
Is it any wonder they ended up looking so bad?

Most of the more talented wrestlers (and by that, I dont mean to say guys like Dreamer and Sandman etc are not talented, I'm talking more about pure wrestling talent) obviously used ECW as a stepping stone to get to what was considered the big leagues (WWF/WCW).

My main point though is that there is actually a lot of decent talent on the current ECW roster, and by using the old ECW formula, it could actually be great.
The failing is not because of who's on the roster, but the booking!

Its easy to look back at the old ECW and remember how many big names were in it, but its easy to forget that at the time, most of them were not actually big names.

no, you just implied it. if that was not your intent, then your wording was poor.



no, much like the other E programs it's a combination of poor booking and lack of talent.



if you have good booking, you can make your own names. Austin, Rock, and Foley were not big names when they came into the E, but through a combination of booking, talent, and hard work they made themselves into big names.

That's right. For the first few years of it's existence, TNA, not having the star talent that the 'E, focused on making stars of their talents. A.J. Styles, Christopher Daniels, Abyss, and AMW all come to mind.

Actually you are being an idiot, reading the post how you want to read it, and purely hating on WWE.
I never said that ECW was totally void of talent, you just decided to read it as such just to bolster your argument.
The simple fact that back in the day, ECW sold on the backs of the likes of Sabu, Dreamer, Sandman, Rhino and the other "extreme" guys rather than the actual "wrestlers".
The "wrestlers" though were probably the thing that kept it going by breaking up the monotony of just seeing big spots!

And to say the current ECW has a lack of talent shows either your ignorance or your blinkered attitude that all WWE is bad!

Shelton Benjamin, Elijah Burke, Kevin Thorn, John Morrison, CM Punk, Nunzio & Stevie Richards are all talented guys, and given the right booking, could all be the saving grace of the project, but with the exception of Morrison & Punk, they are all being booked as crap.

The current roster (as long as you replace shit like Boogeyman and Big Daddy V), could actually live up to the old ECWs standards if they were booked properly, and actually be allowed to be "extreme".

Yeah Snarf, cause its not like I already said this!

The only exceptions to this were Abyss (who is a piss poor Mankind/Kane rip off) & AMW.

I think you're being overly harsh on Abyss. Yeah, there's elements of Kane/ Mankind, but I wouldn't call it piss poor. He's a decent big man, he's over with the crowd (whether it be a face or a heel), and he's willing to take some sick bumps.

I could easily say the same of you.

Abyss himself is a very good wrestler saddled with a gimmick that is a ripoff of both Kane and Mankind. he would be better served with a gimmick that was more original. probably not gonna happen, though.

True, but he plays it well, and it's over with the crowd. It's not like Ric Flair was entirely original when he called himself "The Nature Boy", and Hogan liberally borrowed from Superstar Billy Graham.

yeah, but the thing is, Flair took the "Nature Boy" gimmick and made it his own. he redefined the persona. Flair and Rogers even battled over the gimmick in the late seventies with Rogers coming in specifically to put Flair over. whereas, another Nature Boy, Buddy Landell just ripped off Flair.

Hogan, as much as I dislike him, Hogan took elements of Superstar Graham and combined them with his own persona. as did Jesse Ventura and even Scott Steiner.

but Abyss has not been allowed to develop into his own persona. he's pretty much perpetually stuck in the late 90's Kane/Mankind mold.