RKMBs Forums .::Important::. Politics and Current Events Mildred Loving, matriarch of interracial marriage, dies

that's some rationale, you decide if i like someone of another race, it must be because i am familiar with them? well if i like someone even Caucasian it's because i am familiar with them. by your logic then wouldnt i dislike black people i'm not familiar with? i honestly dont like or dislike someone based on their skin color, my family to the best of my knowledge does not either.


my family doctor is a phillipino, i live in Appalachia, there are plenty of white doctors, you think i distrust people of different races yet, i picked the foreigner? am i spying on her for the white people or something? i let a foreigner be my kids line between good health and bad but i dont like other races?

it really is sad that you and whomod believe the baloney that has been spread, but honestly i dont really know anyone in my community that is racist, im sure their are, im naive, if barack obama can go to a secret racist church in the middle of chicago for 20 years im sure their are secret places like that here in the styx, but hopefully it's the exception in chicago as it is here...

i wonder what bsams thinks about this.

I don't blanketly condemn memebers of any race. Originally, I was only speaking to G-Man. Then I included you after you jumped in.

That's it.

I have nothing to do with Rev. Wright. I don't share his views. I do, however, know some people that do share them. You want to talk about why that is and see if we can come to some sort of reasonable conclusion...? I'm all for it. I just think it's easier for you to beleive that all blacks feel that way. I also don't speak for whomod nor does he speak for me. While I tend to see things from his direction, I'm not quite as left as he is. You can talk to me based on the things that I say alone.

I think you are guilty of exactly what you accuse me of.

I don't think all whites are racist or bigotted or whatever. But many are. Just like many black folks are. I DO think that there are many more white people that have issues with blacks or any other minorities than there are minorities that have problems with them.

At least within the confines of this country.

I wonder when The Bastard will finally chime in?

i dont believe all blacks feel that, if youll re-read my posts i said the Trinity churches are hopefully the exception, i know several black people none of them feel the way Wright and Obama do, that's why i said it's dangerous to have someone like Obama president.


while you may not speak for whomod, he does speak for you, minorities, white folk, and even dead people. dont believe me, peruse the forum history....

i do hate Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man, his jealousy of MisterJLA's popularity and charisma only demeans him...

Go fuck yourself. Just go fucking fuck yourself you fucked up retard. Seriously, you're fucking insane.

Minority/Majority statuses aren't arbitrated by skin color. That's only the perception you carry after hearing minorities referred to as "voters" for so often. The Irish were considered a minority when they first showed up in the 1850s, but they had the same pale skin as most Americans. The only one here who's admitting that they're concerned about aesthetics and genes is you.

According to THE Bastard...

This, Alba, is obviously "white":

This, Keyes, is obviously "black":


Yeah, I can see the difference....Keyes has lighter skin.

But thanks for letting us know who's a real minority and who isn't Rev. Wright, uh, I mean Mr. Bastard, sir.

I wonder what Bastard classifies an albino with a negroid facial structure as...

It probably depends on whether or not he or she votes Republican.

We already are mixed-race. Every one on this planet. No one is pure anything.

"Pure" europeans have a mixture of blood from Viking invaders, Vandal, Visigoth and Frankish invaders, Moorish invaders, Ottoman-Turk invaders, Cossack invaders, Mongol invaders, Hun invaders, and whoever else migrated or intermingled through trade with the Europeans.


So I find it offensive to allege, based on nothing, that Americans are "racist", especially since I've seen statistics to show there are more interracial marriages every year.

Another article I read said the last "natural blonde" will disappear in about 200 years, due to interracial marriage, and the fact that so many women artificially color their hair blonde, that anyone trying to preserve genetic purity of even that trait (not even racial purity) would have trouble finding a natural blonde to mate with. Although when the clothes come off, one can always see if the carpet matches the drapes.

In my case, I'm English, Irish, Dutch, German, Scottish and Cherokee (that I know of, from the last 180 years or so).

It's a colorblind society, as long as Whomod's race is represented.

But it's everyone else who's race-conscious and racist.

Okay, now that's just making wild assumptions about whites, based on nothing.

I fail to see that you have any basis to make such a statement.


BSAMS, G-Man, and I have all just given an outline of our own mixed-race heritages.
But based on nothing, you assume us to be racist.



You might ask yourself why you're prone to such prejudicial stereotyping of whites. Could it possibly be... your OWN prejudices, projected on a racial group that YOU have hostility toward?


I don't dispute that SOME whites have this notion of "purity", as do other racial groups. I've met blacks, whites, asians, hispanics, etc., who have made it clear they only date or socialize within their own perceived ethnic group. I met an amazing looking girl who was more "white" by my own perception than I am, who identified herself as Cherokee, and lived on a reservation. Racial identity doesn't always have to do with racial appearance.

But I'd be careful making snap assumptions about "white racism".

I've observed there's plenty of race-consciousness in every ethnic group I've ever encountered.

Again, that seems to me like the standard refrain of some white people to mitigate their bigotry. Dave, any significant mongoloid or negroid DNA has been sufficiently buried in most Europeans over the last several centuries. Yeah, there may be some strand here or there but not enough to get you pulled over by the cops for DWB...ya dig? You mention all the different ethnicities you have in your lineage. Other than the Cherokee...it's all European. All caucasian. You are not mixed race...just mixed up.




I live in America so I can speak to my perceptions of. I've been to Canada, Mexico, and Jamaica. Never been to Europe. I know several people who have traveled or are originally from there. Not a whole lot of black folks in most of the countries there. Never been to Africa or the middle east. Not a whole lot of white folks there. never been to any Asian countries. Not a whole lot of anything other than Asians there. America would seem to have the highest percentage of minorities relative to the population base. As one of those minorities, I feel that my opinion based on my observations and experiences are valid. Now I've defintely seen indigenous mixed race couples and offspring in the places I've visited but there, as here, they are generally the exception. I would imagine that in most of the countries around the wortld there are some examples of mixed race unions and offspring. I don't know so I'm not speaking on it.

The interesting thing is that I've noticed quite few more interracial relationships among the younger generation. Seems like the younger crowd doesn't raelly care about color when it comes to fucking.

Now, this would probably be about the time you mention the interacial relationships you've been in. I've noticed...even back in the day at The Authority Boards...you will often use past relationships to prove that you are not a bigot.

I'll stipulate. As I've said before...I don't think you are a bigot or racist.

But here's the news: I've probably slept with/been in relationship with more white women and women of mixed heritage than you. I've definetly slept with/been in relationships with more black women than you have. If fucking girls outside of one's own race or ethnicity proves one's racial enlightenment...then I'm a one man U.N.





I'm cool with that. I don't particularly like blondes...natural or otherwise.



My point.

If you could seperate the various blood in you, make it into guys and have it walk around, you'd have 5 white guys and an American Indian. The little bit of minority you have in you is a minority IN YOU.

You can't claim to be mixed race when 5/6 of you is caucasian.

What is whomod's race? I've read him quite a bit but, I've never seen him mention any race or ethnicity.

I think that everyone is race-conscious to a certain extent. Being aware of race doesn't make one racist or bigoted. It's how one treats and/or views the other race that makes one a racist or bigot.

No...that's me making wild assumptions about bsams based on my perceptions of his personality based on the thousands of posts that I've read by him over the years. bsams has been mostly cool with me since I met him way back at The Manor. He even allowed me to be a junior NB. I think he's a pretty cool person even though I just don't get his obsession with The Big Lebowski...it just ain't that funny to me.

However, seems to me that bsams ins't the most tolerant of cultures or people that he's not familiar with. He could prolly have a beer with me...THE Bastard...cuz he's familiar with me. But I just don't think he would hang out with me if I were just some random black guy.

I could be wrong but, that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it





I haven't called any of you racist. I may have inferred that one or more of you are bigots but there's a difference. I think most people are bigots...including me. Just be real with it and don't play the prick when called on it.





I have prejudices. We all do. But I harbor no hostility towards whites (or any one else) as a group. There are specific white people that I don't like...as well as black and others. There's this little chinese lady in this restaurant that I go to that is a raging bitch. She's never said anything to me personally but I've seen her say stuiff to other people. Based on that, I don't like the twat. I don't have time to hate whole groups of people. There's more than enough individual assholes to despise for reasons other than their color, religion or ethnicity.




Agreed.



I don't make snap judgements. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt until and unless they show me otherwise.

Being Jewish, Italian, Greek, Slavic or Irish were, and in many circles still are, huge divisions between Europeans.

I don't agree at all with the "if you're European, you're white, and no one harasses or feels prejudice toward you" mindset.

No matter WHAT you are, people will ridicule you for whatever perceived differences you have from the crowd.

If you're Jewish, they'll tease you about being tight with money, or maybe even call you Christ-killers.
If you're Italian, they'll tease you with a New York monkey accent, and joke about you being Mafia.
If you're German, they'll stereotype you as a tight-assed militaristic nazi.
If you're Russian, they'll stereotype you as a commie spy.

If you're Muslim or Arab, they'll tease you and call you Osama and make jokes about you being a terrorist (i actually saw that at an internet cubicle-environment office job I had, with a 20-year-old muslim American guy, nice guy about 20 and dressed and talked kind of hip-hoppy, the guys were teasing him and weren't serious and clearly liked him, but still it cut pretty deep. Me and a few other guys privately told the others they could be looking at a racial discrimination/harassment lawsuit if they kept it up, and it stopped. But I doubt this guy ever forgot the alienation he felt.)

There's a set of stereotypes that goes with every ethnicity, and you'll never convince me that Europeans ever get a free pass from the same kind of prejudices.



I know you won't like it when I say this, but if black Americans get treated differently, it's because they have about 7 times the violent crime rate as the rest of America, and much of that is black-on-black crime. As we've discussed before, even black police officers treat blacks differently.

I read an article about the death penalty recently that said the U.S. allegedly leading the world in crime and imprisonment is distorted because of black and hispanic crime rates in pocketed urban areas in the U.S., that are vastly disproportionate to the rest of America. And that if statistics excluded black and hispanic crime and incarceration, the U.S. would drop to the 25th globally in crime and/or incarceration.

Similarly for literacy and high-school dropout rates.

These are not because of any kind of inherent racial supremacy. Instead, rather than saying these groups are racially inferior, the studies I've read credit the contrast --as compared to white, asian and other groups-- to cultural factors, such as black and hispanic parents in most cases not putting as high a priority or expectation on their children achieving scholastically, or having an expectation of higher education.



It isn't prejudice if there is a factual basis for wariness in seeing an unknown black male on the street at night. Because, while a majority of blacks are law-abiding, statistically a black person is seven times more likely to commit a violent crime. And a person aware of that is appropriately cautious.

That's not "ignorance" or "prejudice".
That's just pure and simple fact.

And that's not at all to be confused with the respect and courtesy I have for black people I meet in a less isolated and potentially threatening environment.

I forget exactly where (probably in one of several topics where Whomod gloated based on census articles that Mexicans/latinos are the fastest rising percentage of U.S. population).

But Whomod said his parents are first-generation immigrants from Mexico, who learned English after coming here.

So Whomod would be second-generation American, of Mexican descent.

Let me say up front that I've always had tremendous respect for your part in these discussions T.B., and we've literally been having them periodically since 2000, where as you said, we first met on the Authority boards. You show exceptional patience despite your obvious disagreement, and I blushingly say considerably more patience than I've often shown.
But WB tries!

From our past discussions, you have a whole glossary of terms, and while you have a well-thought out perspective, it is a perspective concentric to the fact that you are black (or African American) and while I largely understand your argument I simply (but respectfully) do not agree with the presuppositions of thast perspective. Terms like institutionalized racism, the notion that whites can never experience racism because they are a majority and not a minority.
And (an argument I've not heard from you before) that there is some clear distinction between a racist and a bigot. I'm sure there's a clarification of terms that would make that understandable and well defined. But to me they are ultimately both just sweeping labels. I know you well enough that you mean these statements without malice. But in complete honesty, I would find them much more inflammatory from virtually anyone else.

I've felt similar frustration in debates with Jason/Wednesday. We butted heads for years, but I've come to understand his posting style is more playful sarcasm and not as confontational as I initially read into it.

I think you're both nice guys, and certainly intelligent guys as well. I wish we could all (blacks and whites in general) come to a mutual understanding on the issue of race, and heal the national rift. Oddly, we seem to get along better, most of us, when we just don't discuss it.

We grew up in the same nation, and share much of the same schools, lifestyles, music, media, and culture. But somehow, we remain worlds apart on our perspectives of race. As I've said often, my greatest frustration is that we can't even seem to agree what the causes are, let alone the solution.

Yeah and there's division among black folks depending on if you're light skinned or dark skinned. Your point?



I never said that. My point was if you are European or are descended from Europeans, you are typically caucasian and therefore don't get to claim mixed race if your ancestor come from differnt countries in Europe.



No argument from me on any of those points except to say that those are some really nasty stereotypes but some would say that they are based on fact.




Yeah there's a lot of Black on black crime...which would make you and people that look like you safe as churches in the 'hood cuz we are so busy killing ourselves and drinking forties and smoking crack.



Some of this makes sense and is undoubtedly true. However, there is a little phenomenon called institutionalized racism that negatively effects minorities and their communities. You and I had this conversation 8 years ago and you didn't get it then. I don't expect you to get it now.

I am not saying that all minorities blame things on "The Man keepin' them down"...though quite a few do. There are many black folks that expect to be given things rather than work for them. I have no use for my people that play the race card when they aren't making an effort to better themselves.

However, the reality is that there are many people in the minority community that are unable to improve their lot in life not because they don't want to or because they aren't supported by the parents. They can't because their schools are falling apart. They don't have new and current school books. Their neighborhoods are poorly policed. The blue collar jobs that enabled an undereducated person to support a family are few and far between. The social services set up to help people in need are victims of budget cuts tied to the tax cuts given to the rich. The legitimate reasons for the generalities that you cite are legion. But, for some people, it is easier to simply blame it on the victim.



I understand where you are coming from. If I'm walking down the street and some white lady clutches her purse tighter or crosses the street, I get it. But the reality is simple: IT IS PREJUDICE IF THE ONLY REASON SHE'S CROSSING THE STREET IS BECAUSE I"M BLACK.

I've been mugged once in my life. The mugger was a black guy. He took my leather coat. Kid stuck a gun in my face, demanded my coat and fled once I gave it to him.

I've been jumped or otherwise accosted 4 other times in my life. Each time it was by white guys. I lived for a time in a very small, 99.9% white town in Pennsylvania. I hung out with several white chicks and there were a lot of guys that looked like you that didn't like that. I lost one fight when it was 3 of them against me. I won one of them and the 3rd fight was broken up before it started. I also got into a fight with a group of young white dudes that called me 'nigger' at my job. Broke one of the kids fuckin' jaw and the fight was over.

In all of these situations, including the mugging, I was minding my own business, not bothering a soul. Based on these 5 situations, I could say that if I were to get in a fight, 80% of the time it will be with a white person. So I should be afraid everytime I see a white person walking towards me? Based on the facts of my past experiences, if I pre-jugded every white guy I ever see, would that be right? Would I be justified?

I've said flatly that while whites can be victims of bigotry and prejudice, racism is about the power that one group will hold over another based soley on the race difference of the two. Given that definition of racism, it is impossible for blacks or any other minority to be racist towards members of the majority. WE have no institutionalized power over you. While individuals can harm each other based on race, my group cannot cause your group any systemic hardship. As a group, minorities simply don't have the power to truly be racist.




I've definitely made the disctinction between racist and bigot before. But I'm sure that it's been years since it came up between us. My intent is not to incite a fight but, to have meaningful dialogue and hopefully make you understand that, while there are some significant social and cultural differences between races we are more alike than you might think.



Wednesday is a lot younger and smarter than me...I'd hate to debate him in anything, especially a subject like this.



The problem is that WE DON'T DISCUSS IT. We can never get past it without talking it out. There needs to a frank discussion on race so that we can all just get over it and move forward. Not talking about it enables people that look like you to pretend that there aren't any problems while people that look like me know that is not the case.



The first step is even realizing that there are still problems. There are many causes. I think that white people tend to get really defensive when talking about race. You need to understand that you as indivudals are not being blamed or held accountable for anything. Stop trying (as a group) to blow it off or say that there are no problems.

I guess this has to do with the old (American) principle of "one drop of negroe blood": if you have a black parent, grand parent, or grand grand grand parent, you're still as black as if your both parents are black. Therefor, it's perhaps easier to look up on your self as black, because white people (in the past if not today) won't look up on you as a fellow white American. Meanwhile, black people in general can - ironically - embrace the "one drop" principle in order to feel proud of being black and being in a black community.

Do you think that he can have a beer and hang with any random white guy? Is that how it's done in the black community? "Hey, I'm black; and he's black. We should have a beer together or something."

Seriously, though, don't most people tolerate other people because they're 'familiar' with them and not just because of race?

I think the problem with discussing it openly and honestly is because neither side wants to be 100% truthful about it. You can, of course, tell me what you feel are the problems with the white community having to face the subject; but if I or any other white person on this board begins a list of what we feel is keeping the black community from discussing this honestly, we're immediately labeled as racists and bigots. I can't tell you how many times whomod has used that response to try and shut down any criticism. So how am I supposed to come to the table when I have what I can say automatically limited? Why should I even bother engaging in that discussion?

Obviously people tend to gravitate towards that which is familiar. Most of the bars I go to regularly tend to be mixed race but more black that white. That said, there are quite a few black guys that are regulars there that I have no interest in hanging with for whatever reason. I tend to "have a beer" or scotch in my case with somebody not based so much on race but on what kind of conversation a person has. If I'm sitting there and some guy starts talking about sports, politics, the fine broad that just walked thru the door or anything else that interests me, then we'll probably sit there and drink and talk. Most of the guys that I hang with feel the same way. Nobody I know would ever say "I won't drink with that guy cuz he's[insert race here]". I'll drink with anybody as long as you're interesting and don't become a beer muscle asshole after 3 drinks.

Here's the deal:

Let me say it again for those of you that came late to the party:

I AM NOT WHOMOD.

I think that kid is very passionate about the things that he believes and he'll go back and forth with all of you in a way that I won't. But most of the converstaions I read between him and the rest of you tend to devolve into mean spirited exchanges of insults that get you nowhere.

You want to talk about race with me? Go ahead. You want to say things that are politically incorrect? Have at it. Lots of things that white people think are wrong with black people probably have some basis in fact. I'm not going to get mad at an ignorant, racist statement that is made not out of malice but, as an example of the way you've been taught to believe. Hell, in some cases, I may have been taught to believe similar things. I was just able to overcome it by actually being in the black community and seeing things for myself.

I think part of the problem is that some white people will apply negative racial stereotypes to the majority of a particular group. They will allow for some members of that group to be "cool" meaning more like them but, will write off the rest. It's kinda like most of you would probably think that K-nut, Jason and myself are pretty cool even though we are black guys because you gotten to know us to a certain extent. As a result, most of you will not apply the most negative of stereotypes to us. The truth of the matter is, most stereotypes have a basis in fact and some members of any group can be described in negative terms but...the vast majority of any group is basically THE SAME as the vast majority of any other group. We have more things that unite us rather than divide us. It's just easier to focus on the bullshit.

I respect most of the people here. I think almost all of you are pretty intelligent and bring a lot to the table. For the most part, I think that most of you are not actively racist or bigoted. I think most of you just have no interest in learning the truth about the groups you refer to beyond anecdotes and articles on the internet. That said, I think there's a couple of you that would cut my throat simply and only because I'm black if the situation presented itself.

Doesn't matter to me. Anyone want to have a real discussion without getting into the bullshit? I'll be around.

Welcome to the RKMBS!


Isn't reverse racism fun?



Is this really your first day here? I don't know how most the posters here tie their shoes in the morning.

Point of clarification: I wasn't lumping you in with whomod. I was pointing out the problem with discussing this issue in general. You can't convince me that people who tend to use the label of 'racist' or 'bigot' to write off or silence someone in opposition to their opinions like whomod hasn't don't exist in great numbers on your side of the political aisle just like I can't convince you that people like G-man and Wonder Boy don't vastly populate the right side of the political spectrum. I'll tell you what, let's set up an island to put those fucknuts on to get them out of the way. We'll start with Jessie Jackson and Pat Buchanan.




Listen, I'm all about treating people as people. I think that I've got a unique outlook on the whole thing based on where I grew up that I don't see matched by anyone else on this board (so far). I will admit that I'm more suspicious when some claims something is racist based on the fact that I heard racism used as an excuse for just about everything while I was growing up. It's a bit of 'the boy who cried wolf' for me, I'm afraid.

Yes, how many whomod alts have made that same claim?

G-Man is ok. He just clings too much to his guns and religion. Wonder Boy has penis envy issues...

and just so we all understand the preceding statement:

I'm all for Putting Jessie and Pat on an island somewhere...while we're at it lets throw Ann Coulter and Al Sharpton in with them. We could make it a cage match and sell pay per view. I'd bet some big money on Coulter eating all of them alive.

Yeah... I wish I had a smaller cock like the rest of you guys, so women weren't afraid of me.



But seriously. I've heard you talk about it before.
I'm sure you're packin' too.

Are you fantasizing about the bastards cock?

I fail to see how anything I've written on this, or most other topics, is so significantly different than your views that you wouldn't end up on "fucknut island" with us.

Bastie has made his opinions on you clear. I was speaking in reference to that.

you are certainly entitled to be wrong.


i would love to see any post, that would give anyone the impression that i would have a drink with a random white guy i dont know, and one that indicates i wouldnt have one with a random black guy? what would the race have to do with anything? it's actually very insulting, in your mind i supposedly base my decisions on skin pigmentation and what area of the world a persons ancestors came from? that's almost rex retarded.

but still i'd love to see the posts, that lead you to believe this.


i am intolerant of idiots, sure but really on the internet there is no way of telling. who do i give the most shit to hear on the rkmbs? g-man, wonder boy, rex. all white. there are many black people here, Wednesday, TK, yourself, Rob, the list goes on and on, if i was intolerant of other people based on color, why would i give shit to the white guys and not the black guys? now im sure youve got some explanation, but the fact is it totally disproves your theory(9?).

back when i did drink i often did have drinks with black folks i didnt know after work, or in the wrestling circuit, i never thought wow im sitting with a black guy, or really any other thought about race. race really only becomes an issue when someone makes it an issue. of course youll say well it's because you worked at the same place, or because the dude was a wrestler too, and if i shot pool with a black dude at a bar.

all i can say for your lack of appreciation for the Big Lebowski is, obviously your not a golfer....

Go live in your Karl Rove world, bsams. So there is no racism in America eh? Check this out, I saw this on the news today. A local Latino who took a walk to the corner store to buy a loaf of bread and a box of s`mores, see what the Marines do to him:





Stick your head back in the sand.

The only thing more disgusting that an outright "intolerant" person is a fucking tolerant one.

As if coexisting with anyone different than someone else is a state that needs to be tolerated and not accepted as being no big hairy deal. As if it's saying that it's still bad to live next to those ___ but I tolerate it.

Fuck that. Fucking arsed superior attitude.

Thats a lot of anger you have there. You should have put it in your goodbye post.

wow rex is right, you are an angry little guy. unless i skipped over someones post here, who said they tolerated different races? from what i've read everyone here pretty much doesnt give a rats ass what race someone is, it's a non factor to them.

have you ever considered counseling for your anger? i've met people like you, who go through life angry at the world, there is so much fun to be had without constantly thinking that people that dont know you secretly hate you, because of your race. have you talked about your problems with your wife, or clergy?