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With the vote for the death of Jason Todd in mind, I give to you: The Death of Martian Manhunter.
The case for the character's death:
A concept from the 1950s, the Martian Manhunter has clearly dated.
The character consists of a giant green man in a cape, pirate boots, crossed over red braces, and blue tight shorts.
The character has a mixed bag of powers, some of which are very ill-defined (telepathy and shape-changing).
The course of the character's powers is his Martian physiology - another 1950s flaw, as we now know that green men do not live on Mars.
The death scene:
The Martian Manhunter is the last man standing of the Jsutice League as they fight off Despero in the Watchtower, attempting to fufil a vow to destroy the Earth. Despero has reconfigured his DNA to avoid the Watchtower's nuclear defence systems, which are keyed to attack certain powerful and lethal entities if they approach the Earth. Despero taunts the Manhunter about how he will personally maim every sentient creature on the Earth in a symphony of pain.
In a last ditch effort to save the planet, the Manhunter adds his own DNA to the program, and launches into space, dragging Despero behind him. Despero is defiant to the end, and the Manhunter sends a telepathic goodbye to every person on the planet.
Both the Manhunter and Despero are destroyed in the blast. The JLA bury the Manhunter's charred remains in the red sands of Mars, and a memorial is established on the Moon.
Vote!
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
The course of the character's powers is his Martian physiology - another 1950s flaw, as we now know that green men do not live on Mars.
Spider bites also don't give people super-powers; why don't we kill of Peter Parker?
The Martian Manhinter's big problem is that few writers have been able to do him justice. The only two I can think of are Grant Morrison and Joe Kelly.
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quote:
Spider bites also don't give people super-powers; why don't we kill of Peter Parker?
O Wise Snarf, the theory with Spider-man is that radioactivity causes random mutations. A radioactive or mutated spider might have venom with unusual properties. Its a long shot, but its not absolutely improbable to anyone outside of the medical fraternity.
With the Manhunter, everyone knows there are not civilisations on Mars. During the 50s, it was a long shot, to all save astrophysicists. Nowadays it is certain.
Its easier to suspend belief with Spider-man than the Martian Manhunter.
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I'd rather see Guy Gardner killed off anyways.
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Yeah let's kill Guy Gardener.
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quote:
Supposedly posted by Dave:
With the Manhunter, everyone knows there are not civilisations on Mars. During the 50s, it was a long shot, to all save astrophysicists. Nowadays it is certain.
Without getting into an off-topic debate, that's not as certain as some claim. There are photographs recently released by NASA which may point to an ancient civilization on Mars which has probably been extinct since long before civilization on Earth. But that's another topic entirely. Suffice it to say there's much, much, much, much more that we DON'T know about Mars than we do. Some scientists are even rethinking the idea that Venus may support some kind of life. It's the hubris of man to make conclusions without proper investigation.
In any case, the comic-book-as-fantasy concept shouldn't be threatened because it defies reality. With fantasy it's simply more important to tell an imaginative story.
That said, I really don't care for J'onn J'onzz. He was an implausible and boring character in the 1950s and '60s, and the only time he's ever been interesting was during the Giffen-DeMatteis JUSTICE LEAGUE series when he had an Oreo cookie fetish. I really can't understand the reasoning of anyone claiming that the Martian Manhunter is the "heart and soul" of the JLA. That's bullshit. The character was absent from the pages of the JLA for something like 15 to 20 years from the late '60s to the mid '80s because he was so derivative of Superman in powers and was basically uninteresting and/or plain silly, not to mention that he had one of the lamest weaknesses of any superhero (fire) -- what would've been even worse was if he was allergic to water, like Bruce Willis in Unbreakable (an otherwise cool movie). Those are my reasons for killing him off.
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I liked him in Kingdom Come. Specially since he looked like Bruce Willis.
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I'd rather his powers be revamped that the Martian Manhunter killed.
If he was going to die, though, it would devinitely have to have something to do with fire. Perhaps a one-way trip to the Sun.
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Actually wouldn't the easiest way to kill MM be to set his cape on fire?
On another topic, I just noted that another poster pointed out how Bruce Willis was powerless against water in M Night's "Unbreakable." I had forgot that. Which made me think: M Night had water as an Achilles Heel in both Unbreakable and Signs.
I wonder: mere coincidence, some sort of symbolism or some "shared universe" connection between the two films?
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
quote:
Spider bites also don't give people super-powers; why don't we kill of Peter Parker?
O Wise Snarf, the theory with Spider-man is that radioactivity causes random mutations. A radioactive or mutated spider might have venom with unusual properties. Its a long shot, but its not absolutely improbable to anyone outside of the medical fraternity.
With the Manhunter, everyone knows there are not civilisations on Mars. During the 50s, it was a long shot, to all save astrophysicists. Nowadays it is certain.
Its easier to suspend belief with Spider-man than the Martian Manhunter.
Oh yeah theres no life on Mars,but there really was a Krypton wasnt there!
Lets kill Superman!
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
quote:
Spider bites also don't give people super-powers; why don't we kill of Peter Parker?
O Wise Snarf, the theory with Spider-man is that radioactivity causes random mutations. A radioactive or mutated spider might have venom with unusual properties. Its a long shot, but its not absolutely improbable to anyone outside of the medical fraternity.
With the Manhunter, everyone knows there are not civilisations on Mars. During the 50s, it was a long shot, to all save astrophysicists. Nowadays it is certain.
Its easier to suspend belief with Spider-man than the Martian Manhunter.
Dammit, let's kill all the aliens! They don't really exist.... everyone knows that! God created Adam and Eve not Mork and Mindy! ![[AAAHHHH!!!]](graemlins/aahhh.gif)
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The Martian Manhunter doesn't need to be killed off, he just needs a good creative team, like say Morrison/Quitely (assuming the latter could actually make a deadline.). Let Morrie follow up on some of the stuff he began with J'onzz in JLA and actually take the time to do some of the concepts justice.
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quote:
Originally posted by Nowhereman:
quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
quote:
Spider bites also don't give people super-powers; why don't we kill of Peter Parker?
O Wise Snarf, the theory with Spider-man is that radioactivity causes random mutations. A radioactive or mutated spider might have venom with unusual properties. Its a long shot, but its not absolutely improbable to anyone outside of the medical fraternity.
With the Manhunter, everyone knows there are not civilisations on Mars. During the 50s, it was a long shot, to all save astrophysicists. Nowadays it is certain.
Its easier to suspend belief with Spider-man than the Martian Manhunter.
Oh yeah theres no life on Mars,but there really was a Krypton wasnt there!
Lets kill Superman!
Nowhereboob, there are other planets in the universe, and its entirely feasible one of them might support life. Mars doesn't.
I agree with TTT's comment, too When I grew up, I wasn't even aware that the Martian Manunter had been a member of the JLA, and I was an avid reader, simply because the character hadn't been in the series for almost two decades.
"The soul of the JLA" concept is a retcon, pure and simple.
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Maybe the Mars of the DC universe supports life. I do agree that the costume needs to go. Its campy. His greatest weakness is fire, you'd think he'd wear some fire-resistant body condom thing or armor or something.
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He just should look more alien. There is no reason to think that a telepathic shapeshifter shuld be confined to our dimensional perceptions. How about making him difficult to look at?
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I guess he does it so humans will be more trusting. If I saw someone who looked like this:  I know I wouldn't be too quick to trust him. His true appearence: 
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
With the Manhunter, everyone knows there are not civilisations on Mars.
So you've been to Mars, eh?
I say, search the canyons! They could be underground! You don't know!
I saw a little green man today....
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They should replace J'onn with Jemm Son of Saturn.
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I find it hard to believe that an alien from outside the solar system can look just like a human, even though his body is radically different from ours (the only thing I get from a yellow sun is a red sunburn). As for MM's long absense from the JLA, that was retconned out. Since 1986, J'onn HAS been the "heart and soul" of the JLA.
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quote:
Originally posted by the G-man:
On another topic, I just noted that another poster pointed out how Bruce Willis was powerless against water in M Night's "Unbreakable." I had forgot that. Which made me think: M Night had water as an Achilles Heel in both Unbreakable and Signs.
I wonder: mere coincidence, some sort of symbolism or some "shared universe" connection between the two films?
Methinks M. Night Shyamalalalalawhatdarockiscookin is hydrophobic
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
With the Manhunter, everyone knows there are not civilisations on Mars.
So you've been to Mars, eh?
I say, search the canyons! They could be underground! You don't know!
I saw a little green man today....
Jiminy Cricket?
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quote:
Supposedly posted by DuplicateMan:
As for MM's long absense from the JLA, that was retconned out. Since 1986, J'onn HAS been the "heart and soul" of the JLA.
So a retcon will do the trick, huh? Sorry, it's artificial. You can manufacture "heart and soul"-ness and insert it into the past. I grant you, the Manhunter from Mars has played a long-standing role of being the only member with continuity from 1984 to the present, but the heart and soul bit is just pure hogwash, really. Retcons can't change that, and they don't hold weight against history. Just look at Miss America, the one-time retconned replacement for Wonder Woman -- she's a complete nobody who's never actually appeared in any WRITTEN adventures of the JSA, but only in flashbacks. People who are so bloody concerned about Der Kontinuity will argue till they're blue in the face that Miss America was a member of the JSA, but it's still not going to make it so.
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quote:
Originally posted by DuplicateMan:
I find it hard to believe that an alien from outside the solar system can look just like a human, even though his body is radically different from ours (the only thing I get from a yellow sun is a red sunburn). As for MM's long absense from the JLA, that was retconned out. Since 1986, J'onn HAS been the "heart and soul" of the JLA.
Our sun isnt actually yellow!
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quote:
Originally posted by Neilencio:
Methinks M. Night Shyamalalalalawhatdarockiscookin is hydrophobic
"Maw, getcher gun!!! Ol' Bessie's got thuh Hydrophobie!!"
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It does set it up nicely though for the DC 1 Million future version of J'onn who was Mars.
Remember powered superheroes never die.
SMS
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quote:
Originally posted by TheTimeTrust:
So a retcon will do the trick, huh? Sorry, it's artificial. You can manufacture "heart and soul"-ness and insert it into the past. I grant you, the Manhunter from Mars has played a long-standing role of being the only member with continuity from 1984 to the present, but the heart and soul bit is just pure hogwash, really. Retcons can't change that, and they don't hold weight against history. Just look at Miss America, the one-time retconned replacement for Wonder Woman -- she's a complete nobody who's never actually appeared in any WRITTEN adventures of the JSA, but only in flashbacks. People who are so bloody concerned about Der Kontinuity will argue till they're blue in the face that Miss America was a member of the JSA, but it's still not going to make it so.
Miss America WAS a member of the JSA. She IS a nobody (I never heard of her, but I'm going by your description), but so were cetain members of the JLA who clearly DID exist and appear in "real" stories. Likewise, J'onn HAS BEEN the "heart and soul" of the JLA for about 20 years. Historically he was not, and as a Pre-Crisis fan I have no problem with that, but Post-Crisis MM was a member when Superman & Batman were too busy for the team.
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It's like talking to a wall. ![[yuh huh]](images/icons/rolleyes.gif) A wall of anti-matter.
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But if you have only been reading JLA for the past 20 years or less,he would be viewed as that.
Yes retconning doesnt change it for guys who have been reading for longer than that but if all you've ever known is a JLA where J'onn has served in every incarnation & you've been told he is the "heart & soul" of the League,then that is probably how you are gonna view him!
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
quote:
Spider bites also don't give people super-powers; why don't we kill of Peter Parker?
O Wise Snarf, the theory with Spider-man is that radioactivity causes random mutations. A radioactive or mutated spider might have venom with unusual properties. Its a long shot, but its not absolutely improbable to anyone outside of the medical fraternity.
With the Manhunter, everyone knows there are not civilisations on Mars. During the 50s, it was a long shot, to all save astrophysicists. Nowadays it is certain.
Its easier to suspend belief with Spider-man than the Martian Manhunter.
Thats why
J'onn is the LAST Martian.
Radioactivity would KILL a spider.
I am more prone to believe an cizilization existed on Mars but has been wiped rather than a spider surviving a radioactive blast and then passing on his powers by biting a human before dying.
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quote:
Originally posted by King Snarf:
The Martian Manhinter's big problem is that few writers have been able to do him justice. The only two I can think of are Grant Morrison and Joe Kelly.
agreed
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quote:
Originally posted by Stupid Dogg:
Maybe the Mars of the DC universe supports life. I do agree that the costume needs to go. Its campy. His greatest weakness is fire, you'd think he'd wear some fire-resistant body condom thing or armor or something.
I do believe that its also a psychological thing with him as well.
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quote:
Originally posted by DuplicateMan:
quote:
Originally posted by TheTimeTrust:
So a retcon will do the trick, huh? Sorry, it's artificial. You can manufacture "heart and soul"-ness and insert it into the past. I grant you, the Manhunter from Mars has played a long-standing role of being the only member with continuity from 1984 to the present, but the heart and soul bit is just pure hogwash, really. Retcons can't change that, and they don't hold weight against history. Just look at Miss America, the one-time retconned replacement for Wonder Woman -- she's a complete nobody who's never actually appeared in any WRITTEN adventures of the JSA, but only in flashbacks. People who are so bloody concerned about Der Kontinuity will argue till they're blue in the face that Miss America was a member of the JSA, but it's still not going to make it so.
Miss America WAS a member of the JSA. She IS a nobody (I never heard of her, but I'm going by your description), but so were cetain members of the JLA who clearly DID exist and appear in "real" stories. Likewise, J'onn HAS BEEN the "heart and soul" of the JLA for about 20 years. Historically he was not, and as a Pre-Crisis fan I have no problem with that, but Post-Crisis MM was a member when Superman & Batman were too busy for the team.
wrong J'onn was a main member from the begining...
and actually he faded away (something to do with Mars) for awhile probably around the time most of you younguns started to read JLA.
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc.Mid-Nite:
Dammit, let's kill all the aliens! They don't really exist.... everyone knows that! God created Adam and Eve not Mork and Mindy!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Sorry, but as a Christian... I couldn't help but find this absolutely hysterical.
quote:
Originally posted by Nowhereman:
But if you have only been reading JLA for the past 20 years or less,he would be viewed as that.
Yes retconning doesnt change it for guys who have been reading for longer than that but if all you've ever known is a JLA where J'onn has served in every incarnation & you've been told he is the "heart & soul" of the League,then that is probably how you are gonna view him!
![[whaaaa!]](eek01.gif) I never thought I'd ever say this... but I agree with you completely! ![[eh?]](images/icons/confused.gif)
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KILL HIM! BURN THE MARTIAN!
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Crispy Martian steaks anyone?
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Absolutely, the Martian will have to die! I mean, he doesn´t even have small antennaes, and where is his little flying saucer? And then there is his ridiculous outfit ![[no no no]](graemlins/nono.gif) I SAY OFF WITH HIS HEAD!! I´m sure we can get a nice guillitine somewhere in France ![[biiiig grin]](images/icons/grin.gif) No seriously, I haven´t read enough of JLA to know much about The Martian Manhunter, though I do know some! But I think that in comparison to other characters he´s really really boring! I don´t think I´ve ever seen him win a fight, except the one with all the White Martians, you know, the one where Batman defeats four Supes class villians with a match and some petrol, or whatever it was! (That was actually rather ludicrous, but then againk, it WAS a Morrison story, and we all know how he depicts the Bat!) Where was I? Oh yes, MM is BORING! Now, I would be willing to reassess my opinion if someone could actually depict the character in a proper and good way, but so far, I haven´t seen anything! Sure, generally Superman is boring too, but he had Kingdom Come where he really came to his characteristical potential! But MM, no, haven´t seen anything yet, if some one has, could you let me know?
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I agree with Chant on this one. I don't really have any problem with MM's completely undefined powers or the fact that his cape and costume must actually be part of his body so he's really running round completely nekkid, it's just that he bores the hell out of me. I've never read a story with him in it that didn't just make me go 'm'neh' when it came to his contribution. Even more so that Superman (who I aslo find rilly, rilly tedious) he's too powerful to have a really good story written around him, which is presumably why he has the stupid fear/weakness/slight aversion to fire thing going on. Maybe, just maybe, he simply needs a good writer to have a go at him but personally i wouldn't be at all bothered if he died and never, ever came back again.
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Did Martian Manhunter really 'hunt' men?
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The "Manhunter" part of the name made more sense when he was a police detective, and when the word "Manhunter" was associated exclusively with the police. Nowadays the word has gone out of style due to its amusing connotations.
It seems to me that the character of J'onn J'onzz -- everything from the corny spelling of the name to the concept of a green Martian disguised as a cop -- is very, very dated and very 1950s. The character is better left in the past, IMO.
Now that I think of it, the only times I've really enjoyed Martian Manhunter stories has been twice: Once during the JUSTICE LEAGUE INTERNATIONAL era for the interesting twists it brought to the character (not to mention the classic Oreo gag), and the second time was in a Martian Manhunter 3-issue miniseries which was set in the paranoid 1950s and involved a conspiracy involving lizard-people. It was very retro and the Manhunter from Mars was finally once again in his element. Whenever he's portrayed in modern-day stories, he seems like a quaint relic of a more innocent time. My conclusion is still that he should be killed off -- they can always tell stories that take place during the 1950s which will be more "true" to the character than anything else being done currently.
BTW, I've read quite a few of the early Manhunter from Mars stories which appeared in the mid-to-late 1950s issues of DETECTIVE COMICS as well as some from the early 1960s HOUSE OF MYSTERY, and while some of the earliest stories were quite interesting in a 1950s way, they just got sillier and sillier and sillier as the years went on. This is one character who never really had a "classic" period. I've read the Ostrander series as well, but much of it is fairly forgettable as well. I don't hate the character by any means, but I think this is one superhero who's best put out to pasture.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 785 |
I wouldn't do anything to change his appearance or basic history (like being the last of his race) But I would like to update the concept of Martain Manhunter and his story, so his solo book would work on this premise:
Martain Manhunter - (would kind of be like the "X-Files" featuring Martian Manhunter in his secret identity of John Jones (F.B.I. Agent instead of Detective) who has been searching the Earth and protecting it from plans of "world domination" by the White Martians for thousands of years. He would have seen man's worst defeats and greatest triumphs, as he has lived through out the centuries, but nonetheless would defend Earth's right to a natural evolution)
This would essentially make J'onn an actual "Martian" manhunter and give us "UFO" conspiracy buffs a comic book to read. You can call it the "White Martian Conspiracy!"
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