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Well, it looks like we can forget about Superman: Birthright having any meaningful impact on the monthly books.... http://comics.toonzone.net/solicitations/2003-10/It looks as if DC going to go ahead and reissue Byrne's Man of Steel and early Superman work in TPB form at the same time Birthright is still running. Am I the only one who can't understand this? I know the Byrne material eventually has to be collected in TPBs, but why now, especially with Birthright being intended to be a fresh intro to the character for newcomers? By timing it this way, isn't DC shooting itself in the foot? I mean, if a completed origin story's being reissued alongside a new version in progress, the completed one's most likely to get bought instead of the new one. I mean, Birthright, even though it's selling well, is already highly suspect as far as having any importance to the Superman mythos. This move pretty much renders it useless and a waste of Waid and Yu's time. Why should they kill themselves refurbishing the character when DC's just going to reprint the older version and sell it and Waid/Yu's book at the same time? This move is only going to hurt Birthright in the end. I guess those of us who were at least hoping for an "Ultimate Superman" book to come out of this can kiss that dream good-bye. And those of us who were hoping Birthright would be the jump-start Superman needed can just forget about it now. Color me disillusioned with DC, because this was a supremely dumb act of bad timing that's only going to sink Waid's book like a rock. He might as well have not even bothered writing the thing.
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I guess you have a point. I wouldn't think anything was wrong, but on the other hand, if DC released Superman Archives around the time of Byrne's Man of Steel, it probably would have overshadowed what he was attempting to do.
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quote:
Originally posted by Snapman:
I guess you have a point. I wouldn't think anything was wrong, but on the other hand, if DC released Superman Archives around the time of Byrne's Man of Steel, it probably would have overshadowed what he was attempting to do.
And that's my problem with this whole thing. It's not that DC's reissuing the Byrne material. That was inevitable no matter what. It's the timing I object to. If you're putting out a miniseries retelling Superman's beginnings and then turn around and reissue an older version of the story in TPB at the exact same time as the new miniseries, doesn't that pretty much render the new version useless? Couldn't DC have released the Byrne material earlier on or even after Birthright ran its course, to make sure there wouldn't be any conflict between the two versions? The way things stand now, there's no real reason for Birthright to exist. People could just pick up the Byrne version and bypass Waid's story without a second thought.
Like I said, the timing is beyond stupid. Byrne's version didn't have to worry about any other competing versions. Why should Waid's have to? The whole situation is ridiculous.
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Maybe they're tying to make Byrne compete with Waid, to see who sells more.
Anyway, I hope they go all the way with the trades... I would have loved to have those issues in TPB when I was digging up the Byrne era, and there's still a couple of issues I don't have.
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You know, I guess some people do have respect for Byrne's Superman. MOTA would be proud. However, these collections probably wouldn't even be happening if it weren't for Birthright, which is really weird.
Ponder this I will...
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I’m completely baffled by the release of the Man of Steel TPB on the heels of BIRTHRIGHT. Eddie sez one thing about Birthright being a new fresh starting point yet seems to hedge his bet by choosing this particular point in time to release the Byrne reboot. Trying to have it both wayz. I guess it helps to spread the blame. Go figure. ![[izzat so?]](graemlins/zatso.gif)
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quote:
Originally posted by woodstock:
You know, I guess some people do have respect for Byrne's Superman. MOTA would be proud. However, these collections probably wouldn't even be happening if it weren't for Birthright, which is really weird.
Ponder this I will...
Plans to release the Byrne material predate any plans for Birthright.
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quote:
Originally posted by ManofTheAtom:
Plans to release the Byrne material predate any plans for Birthright.
Like you fucking know...
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quote:
Originally posted by Kilgore Trout:
Like you fucking know...
I've been hearingabout the Byrne tps for a lot longer than there's even been talk about Waid working on Superman.
The Byrne tps news started while Waid was still bitching about Crossgen.
I'm just glad the tps are coming out when they're coming out, and hope they bury Birthright.
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quote:
Originally posted by ManofTheAtom:
I've been hearingabout the Byrne tps for a lot longer than there's even been talk about Waid working on Superman.
You HEARD about it. I guess that's proof then. ![[eh?]](images/icons/confused.gif)
Feh.
Is constantly talking out of your ass painful or are you just used to it?
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FYI... quote:
Report from Wizardworld Chicago
CrossGen and Image Vie for Independents
July 07, 2002
Right smack dab in the middle of what has become a remarkable year for comic books, Wizardworld: Chicago was short on major announcements and long on behind-the-scenes maneuvering and positioning. Yes there were some major editorial undertakings unveiled -- Mark Waid is penning a year-long, "Siegel- and Schuster-friendly" reworking of the Superman origin story for DC called Superman: Birthright --
Note the D-A-T-E: July 7, 2002
BIRTHRIGHT been known about for slightly over a year. We just found out about the plans for the Byrne TPB a few dayz ago.
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quote:
Originally posted by Kilgore Trout:
Note the D-A-T-E: July 7, 2002
I've known about the tps for a lot longer than that. I first saw it in the old DC boards, long before Birthright was announced.
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Well of course there was "plans" to do it, there is conceivably "plans" to release every comic in TP form. However, I don't think it's a coincidence that the Byrne books are coming out right next to Birthright.
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Actually Greenberger and Crain have been trying to get Perez Wonder Woman and Byrne Superman trades going for the past 2 or 3 years. From the horses mouth..So, they have been planned just not set into production.
But I'm sure Birthright sped the process along. :)
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quote:
Originally posted by Pig Iron:
But I'm sure Birthright sped the process along. :)
Birthright must die, lol.
quote:
Originally posted by Pig Iron:
if DC released Superman Archives around the time of Byrne's Man of Steel, it probably would have overshadowed what he was attempting to do.
My guess is that many older fans would have been happy to see all that material being released at all, regardless of what was taking place in the ongoing series.
Some older fans might have even bought both, while younger ones would have just bought MoS.
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quote:
Originally posted by ManofTheAtom:
I'm just glad the tps are coming out when they're coming out, and hope they bury Birthright.
Well, congratulations. You're getting exactly what you want. Never mind that Byrne never had to compete with reprints of the older Superman stories. Never mind that his work was allowed a chance to breathe on its own. Waid's throat's being slit by this, and that's all that matters to you. Death to anything that dares to deviate from the Great God Byrne, right? Well, I hope you're happy. DC just killed Birthright with this decision, and made it crystal clear that nobody will ever be allowed to have any creative freedom on Superman ever again. It's Byrne and Jurgens' show only, to hell with anyone else who wants to bring anything to Superman.
quote:
Birthright must die, lol.
It already IS dead, thank you very much. Timing the Man of Steel reissues at the exact same time as Birthright has doomed Waid's book. You and your fellow Byrne/Jurgens Sycophants™ won yet again, this time at the expense of any kind of revival for the Superman books. You'll get to keep Superman cloistered all to yourselves, permanently stagnated between 1986-1999 because a fresh perspective on the character wasn't allowed a fair chance. There's absolutely no reason the Byrne reprints couldn't have waited until Birthright was finished. NONE WHATSOEVER. But no, DC wants to cater to the selfish "EVERYTHING MUST CONFORM TO BYRNE THROUGH JURGENS AND NOTHING FROM THE SILVER AGE HAS ANY VALUE" crowd and stifle any attempts to infuse fresh blood into a franchise that badly needs it. And so Waid gets denied any kind of fair shake whereas Byrne was given all the freedom he wanted. Is that fair, either to Waid or to those who want Superman to get a shot in the arm? No. But since it caters to those like you who won't accept anything other than the Byrne/Jurgens version, you think this is perfectly OK.
DC not only stabbed Mark Waid in the back with this decision, but they've lost me as a reader. Once Trinity wraps up, I'm dropping all my DC purchases (and lately, I haven't been buying all that much from them). They don't have the guts to move forward; each step ahead gets drowned in a sea of backpedaling. If I buy ANYTHING from DC at all anymore, it'll only be TPBs or graphic novels...if that. I'm tired of waiting for things to turn around when all DC's going to do is screw everything up and dig their heels into 1986 for dear life. If I have a hankering for new Superman stories, I'll just write some fan-fics. And personally, I think Mark Waid should just cut his losses and devote his energies to Empire. It's obvious that DC doesn't want him writing Superman, so he shouldn't even bother. Just let them stagnate the character and rehash the same stuff from '86-'99 over and over again. Waid can do a lot better without having to put up with this inertia and cowardice. Besides, this might just be the excuse I need to start reading CrossGen and other companies' offerings.
Thanks for nothing, DC. Enjoy your mediocrity.
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quote:
Originally posted by woodstock:
Well of course there was "plans" to do it, there is conceivably "plans" to release every comic in TP form. However, I don't think it's a coincidence that the Byrne books are coming out right next to Birthright.
Neither do I. I think it's a show of DC's utter lack of faith in Birthright and their complete refusal to move away from the Byrne/Jurgens model. I knew they were hedging their bets in case Birthright failed, but I didn't expect them to actually cause Birtright's downfall. Doesn't this qualify as self-sabotage?
Like I said, the timing is stupid, and it's totally unfair to Waid. Nor is it fair to anybody who wanted Superman to get a much-needed jump-start.
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quote:
Originally posted by King Krypton:
[QB]Well, congratulations. You're getting exactly what you want. Never mind that Byrne never had to compete with reprints of the older Superman stories. Never mind that his work was allowed a chance to breathe on its own. Waid's throat's being slit by this, and that's all that matters to you. Death to anything that dares to deviate from the Great God Byrne, right? Well, I hope you're happy. DC just killed Birthright with this decision, and made it crystal clear that nobody will ever be allowed to have any creative freedom on Superman ever again. It's Byrne and Jurgens' show only, to hell with anyone else who wants to bring anything to Superman..
You're making it sound as if continuity determines whether the story is good or not.
Birthright, which I hate, should be able to stand its own regardless of material from another continuity being printed at the same time.
There's still hope for you yet. J.M. DeMatties was going to do a Superman graphic novel exploring Jor-El abducting people from Earth. That was going to be in continuity, now it's an Elseworlds.
Maybe DC changed it because of Birthright...
The point is that Waid could have done what he promised from the start, a story that explores Superman's time before his first apperance in Metropolis, instead he decided to do an out of continuity story that couldn't stand on its own.
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MOTA, have you even read Birthright? I read it last night. Despite a brief "Krypton explodes" prologue and a 2-page montage shot of various Smallville occurences, it seems to be "Clark before he goes to Metropolis."
Now, why do you hate Birthright exactly? Other than the fact that you have no taste.
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quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
Now, why do you hate Birthright exactly?
For one it changes the Kryptonian technology, which changes the origin of characters like the Cyborg and Eradicator, as well as the end of the Y2K event in the ongoing series, not to mention the Return of Superman and the destruction of Coast City.
For another it changes Luthor, making him Clark's age instead of Perry's, which changes the entire plot and point of the World of Metropolis mini series.
This mini series serves no purpose whatsoever. It creates a false heritage for Superman to explore, completely ignoring the real one that's been developed in the ongoing series for the last 18 years.
It accomplishes nothing, other than getting older fans excited about things that won't happen, and caused older fans and newer fans to insult each other.
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Have you even read Birthright, though?
So far, there is no mention of Kryptonian technology. Who cares about continuity? CRISIS fucked up continuity, and nobody complains. Suddenly Wonder Woman is replaced by Black Canary in JLA. Who cares? I sure don't. Fuck continuity.
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I'll admit I haven't read it (yeah, I know you weren't asking me). I took it from the promos I saw that it was going to be a Clark Kent tale instead of a Superman tale. And since I'm not real interested in the CK persona I decided to pass. I think the focus on CK, and in particular the marriage abomination, is what has practically destroyed the franchise. I've dropped all the Super-books in protest recently (cancelling MoS was the straw that broke my back - why cancel the best book in the bunch, go figure).
So anyway, is Birthright a CK tale, or did I misread the promos?
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quote:
Originally posted by Wingnut-EL:
...So anyway, is Birthright a CK tale, or did I misread the promos?
In interviews, Waid has said that Clark will be in the suit by the end of the third or fourth issue (can't exactly remember right now...). He has said that Birthright will be "Superman learning to be Superman".
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quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
MOTA, have you even read Birthright? I read it last night. Despite a brief "Krypton explodes" prologue and a 2-page montage shot of various Smallville occurences, it seems to be "Clark before he goes to Metropolis."
Now, why do you hate Birthright exactly? Other than the fact that you have no taste.
Because it's not a note-for-note rehash of the Byrne material and doesn't treat it as an untouchable holy writ, that's why. In his mind, the only true Superman existed between 1986 and 1999, to hell with anything that came before or after that period.
And judging from the way DC cut the legs out from under Birthright by positioning the Byrne reissues at the exact same time as Birthright instead of allowing Birthright the same amount of breathing room that was afforded to Byrne when he did his revamp, they obviously agree with him.
Screw this. I've had enough of DC's stupidity.
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quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
Have you even read Birthright, though?
I'm waiting for my copy to arrive.
quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
So far, there is no mention of Kryptonian technology.
The technology in the previews is not the same that played a part in bringing Superman back, creating the Cyborg or stopping the B13 virus.
quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
Who cares about continuity? CRISIS fucked up continuity, and nobody complains.
Crisis didn't fuck up continuity, it allowed the DC U to be what it would have been if it hadn't been for the multiverse and Flash #123.
quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
Suddenly Wonder Woman is replaced by Black Canary in JLA.
The sky is falling, Wonder Woman wasn't part of the League in their first year, everyone run away...
quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
Who cares? I sure don't. Fuck continuity.
The people that stopped reading Superman after they got rid of the traingles for one...
You're free to not care, but you probably don't care because you don't understand what continuity is.
I bet you're the kind of reader that wishes that comics that feature the same character each kept separate stories in the sense that each should be a different interpretation of the same concepts.
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quote:
Originally posted by ManofTheAtom:
This mini series serves no purpose whatsoever. It creates a false heritage for Superman to explore, completely ignoring the real one that's been developed in the ongoing series for the last __ years.
I've taken out the number of years in this statement. Notice how it completely describes Man of Steel, but not really Birthright.
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quote:
Originally posted by woodstock:
I've taken out the number of years in this statement. Notice how it completely describes Man of Steel, but not really Birthright.
You're ignoring Crisis and you're ignoring the fact that many Pre Crisis stories are still in continuity.
If you read MoS you'll notice that it skipps around all over the place, covering an entire decade in the life of the character. The years following his first apperance in Metropolis are filled with various Pre Crisis stories, except those that feature other Kryptonians, multiple Kryptonites, Superboy, the multiverse, Archie Bunker, Jerry Lewis, Mohammed Ali, He-Man and trips to Krypton.
The same holds true for Titans and JLA, as well as Pre Zero Hour Legion.
If Birthright were the end result of a justifiable reboot then I wouldn't complain, long as the reboot was really justifiable.
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quote:
Originally posted by woodstock:
quote:
Originally posted by ManofTheAtom:
This mini series serves no purpose whatsoever. It creates a false heritage for Superman to explore, completely ignoring the real one that's been developed in the ongoing series for the last __ years.
I've taken out the number of years in this statement. Notice how it completely describes Man of Steel, but not really Birthright.
While I 100% agree with this statement in spirit, this argument is ultimately meaningless. DC ultimately doesn't give a damn about what supposed to be their flagship character. They'd rather service the ever-shrinking, always shrieking band of egotistical zealots who think John Byrne is the end-all be-all of Superman than the people than gear Superman toward newcomers and people who are DYING for the character to get some kind of renewal. In the end, MOTA and his screeching ilk are going to get exactly what they want. Birthright will be buried and ignored because DC didn't have the guts to let it play out without having to compete with the Byrne reissues, and the ever-stagnant status quo will be maintained at all costs. They're ensuring Birthright's failure by doing this.
So in the end, MOTA and his crew will have won, and everybody who respects Superman'e entire history and is hungering for a revival will have lost. In essence, every thread in which MOTA been outnumbered by people who think he's an idiot have been pointless, because he's been the winner all along.
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King, don't give up yet. The preview art for Superman/Batman has a shot of Kal-El walking out of his ship after it crashed, taken right out of the movie. This invalidates MoS... quote:
Originally posted by King Krypton:
They'd rather service the ever-shrinking, always shrieking band of egotistical zealots who think John Byrne is the end-all be-all of Superman than the people than gear Superman toward newcomers and people who are DYING for the character to get some kind of renewal.
I do disagree with that.
Sales went up with Byrne and Jurgens, and they've been going down since their work's been invalidated and ignored.
How do you explain the books selling so badly today, when they don't have numbered triangles and Superman's origin changes as often as you sneeze, while when they had triangles and the origin was stable sales went up?
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quote:
Originally posted by ManofTheAtom:
Sales went up with Byrne and Jurgens, and they've been going down since their work's been invalidated and ignored.
How do you explain the books selling so badly today, when they don't have numbered triangles and Superman's origin changes as often as you sneeze, while when they had triangles and the origin was stable sales went up? [/QB]
What bullshit!
When and how was/is Byrnes work invalidated?
This is the FIRST I've heard of it. The editorial staff at DC literally bends over backwards to AVOID fucking with the BYRNE dogma.
The missing triangles have NOTHING to do with poor sales. The same 30,000 people buy ALL the Superman garbage. The reason sales have gone down on Adventures for example was that people were finally given a choice NOT to read garbage by a creative team they didn’t like in order to follow a story line.
And that is as it should be. I was sick of feeling like a hostage to shit work.
The very thing you defend "THE STATUS QUO" is/what is keeping NEW fans away. The lock step continuity of the triangle books REQUIRED readers to purchase 4 books to read one story and contained so many references to old plots that the books were/are much too dense and too tough to penetrate without stacks of back issues.
If they want sales to go up they are going to have to go after NAMES to do the title. And I'm not talking about Kelly, Casey or Seagel.
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quote:
Originally posted by Kilgore Trout:
If they want sales to go up they are going to have to go after NAMES to do the title. And I'm not talking about Kelly, Casey or Seagel.
Names over content, the worst way to sell a story.
You're actually saying that the name on the credit box is more important than the content (i.e. footnotes, continuity, stability, characterization)?
Now THAT'S bullshit!
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quote:
I'm waiting for my copy to arrive.
You hate the whole very existence of Birthright, but you still bought it. What a tool.
quote:
The technology in the previews is not the same that played a part in bringing Superman back, creating the Cyborg or stopping the B13 virus.
So what? Man of Steel didn't have a Superman that wasn't nigh-invulnerable, thereby contradicting Siegel and Shuster's original comics. Boo-friggity-hoo. Get over it.
quote:
Crisis didn't fuck up continuity, it allowed the DC U to be what it would have been if it hadn't been for the multiverse and Flash #123.
Which was a part of continuity. Crisis totally changed continuity, then, by having the multiverse not exist and Flash #123's content be invalidated.
quote:
The sky is falling, Wonder Woman wasn't part of the League in their first year, everyone run away...
You idiot. I'm trying to say how little I care about continuity with that sentence. Asshole.
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The people that stopped reading Superman after they got rid of the traingles for one...
Clearly those people are idiots.
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You're free to not care, but you probably don't care because you don't understand what continuity is.
No, I understand what it is. The thing is, I don't really care much anymore.
quote:
I bet you're the kind of reader that wishes that comics that feature the same character each kept separate stories in the sense that each should be a different interpretation of the same concepts.
And I bet you're the kind of reader with the mental capacity of a baby whose head was smashed with a rock.
No, I don't mind interpretations of certain concepts. I mean, isn't that what Elseworlds is all about? But you know what? With Superman, there should be. Each book should be a different interpretation of Superman, one would be a Byrne-worshipping interpretation to shut people like you up, and then the rest of them would be GOOD interpretations.
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quote:
Originally posted by ManofTheAtom:
quote:
Originally posted by Kilgore Trout:
If they want sales to go up they are going to have to go after NAMES to do the title. And I'm not talking about Kelly, Casey or Seagel.
Names over content, the worst way to sell a story.
You're actually saying that the name on the credit box is more important than the content (i.e. footnotes, continuity, stability, characterization)?
Now THAT'S bullshit!
You idiot. He's saying SALES will go up with names working on the book. He said nothing about the content being better with names on the book.
But for the most part, aren't names in the comic industry those known for being good?
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quote:
Originally posted by ManofTheAtom:
quote:
Originally posted by Kilgore Trout:
If they want sales to go up they are going to have to go after NAMES to do the title. And I'm not talking about Kelly, Casey or Seagel.
Names over content, the worst way to sell a story.
You're actually saying that the name on the credit box is more important than the content (i.e. footnotes, continuity, stability, characterization)?
Now THAT'S bullshit!
Of course it is! But what could actually get sales up of the S titles after years of garbage besides getting big names on them? It's either big names or a reboot...
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quote:
Sales went up with Byrne and Jurgens, and they've been going down since their work's been invalidated and ignored.
Two words for you: Speculator market.
Everything was selling like hot cakes in the late '80s to mid-'90s because specualtors were expecting to make a big killing on the secondary market. Why do you think so many "event" stories were done during that period? Because the industry was catering to the speculator market. Once the speculators left, the market went bust, and all but one comic book franchise got in step with the times and evolved beyond that period.
The sole franchise that chose to stay mired in the speculator age was Superman. And It's not even trying to grow out of it.
As for Byrne/Jurgens being "ignored" and "invalidated," not even close. "R2K" was nothing but a chicken-shit gimmick that teased people with the promise of a Krypton that was actually worth a damn and ultimately proved to be a bait-and-switch because they didn't have the guts to undo Byrne's work. The timing of the Byrne reissues at the same time Birthright is running invalidates Waid's book completely, something that NEVER would have been done to Byrne back in '86. And the books are still entrenched in the Jurgens-era "dish up a pointless, empty 'event' gimmick and drag it out as long as possible to make it look like an epic" approach to the stories. And the dopey Super-Wimp, Lois-as-bitch, ultra-undefeatable Lex, and over-rigid status quo have all been held over from the Jurgens years to the present day, at the expense of any kind of fresh perspective. Byrne and Jurgens' work is by and large intact, protected from any kind of change.
quote:
How do you explain the books selling so badly today, when they don't have numbered triangles and Superman's origin changes as often as you sneeze, while when they had triangles and the origin was stable sales went up?
(a) See the speculator market.
(b) The linked-triangle format drove readers away as time went on (and it was only retired as of this year). Further, once the books went unlinked, people could see that the emperor wasn't wearing any clothes. Linkage was a gimmick used to disguise the fact that DC had some horrible creators on the books. It's the very reason why Simonson and Bogdanove, perhaps the least-liked creative team in Superman's entire history, were able to stay on the books for 8 years. The format ensured that bad creators would stay on the books and that "event" stories with no substance or meaning would be the order of the day. Once the linkage went, people finally saw just how little DC cares for the Superman line, and since they were no longer FORCED to buy all of the books to follow ONE story (which in itself turned a lot of people away), they now had the option of walking away from crap instead of being forced to accept it just to follow one story.
And as Kilgore said, the very status quo you so violently assert is sacred perfection is the very thing that's turning people away from Superman. But since it's ensuring the downfall of Birthright, that's OK by you, isn't it? Byrne's Superman remains unchallenged, innovation, freshness, and respect for the character's entire history gets stamped out, and you get the exact same gruel recycled over and over again just as you wanted. You get to keep Superman perpetually stale and stagnant, and the rest of us end up losing. So enjoy yourself. DC's catering to you and your fellow Byrne/Jurgens zealots and screwing everyone else over. The way things are going, they might as well cancel Birthright now and be done with it. It's not going to be allowed a fair shake, it won't be allowed to revitalize the monthly books, and DC certainly doesn't have the brains to at least make it an "Ultimate Superman" book. Waid and Yu should just cut their losses and walk away. They're just killing themselves on this project for no reason.
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Ladies and gentlemen, we now know what all constitutes a quality story in MOTA's eyes: quote:
footnotes, continuity, stability
That's all he cares about. Status quo, keeping everything the same, catering to the same tiny crowd at the expense of new readers and/or people who may not have read Superman in a long time. Creativity, freshness, respect for the past, forward evolution...in MOTA's eyes, these are all things to be avoided to the death. Only "footnotes, continuity, and stability" matter.
And people wonder why I hate the Byrne/Jurgens Sycophants with a vengeance....
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quote:
footnotes, continuity, stability
Sounds like a facist slogan. "Footnotes. Continuity. Stability."
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quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
quote:
footnotes, continuity, stability
Sounds like a facist slogan. "Footnotes. Continuity. Stability."
But to MOTA's credit, at least there's no goose-stepping. He at least had the courtesy to not go that route. :lol:
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quote:
Originally posted by King Krypton:
That's all he cares about. Status quo, keeping everything the same, catering to the same tiny crowd at the expense of new readers and/or people who may not have read Superman in a long time.
And you want things to go back to how they used to be, cater to the over 50 year old crowd...
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