RKMBs Forums .::Robegories::. Sports and Wrestling Lesnar post match comments

comments from JR, Austin, Heyman, and Goldberg

That was actually pretty cool. I didn't know that they (Heyman, and all) got interviewed on camera .

I liked Heyman's final comment that the world of wrestling needs to get it''s collective houses in order. if UFC/MMA continues like it has, it's going to knock wrestling right out of the loop.

I dont agree with that.
They are two very different things.
Wrestling has always been considered more kid/family friendly (with the exception of ECW and CZW, and look how big they made it), and MMA has more in common with Boxing than it does with wrestling.

IDK. Amateur wrestling has been a huge part of MMA since Dan Sevryn won his UFC championships back in the day (the over-the-head suplex he reversed Joyce Gracie's Jujitsu triangle choke with was crazy) and I look at both professional wrestling and MMA as an extension of amateur wrestling (pro wrestling being the more entertainment part of it for sure, but still applying the same techniques, tactics, strategies, and principles of amateur wrestling, while MMA is taking amateur wrestling and incorporating it with other skills found in other martial arts)

So I think there will always be room for both.

Besides, I think Heyman's last comment was about ratings and PPV buy-rates between the two (if wrestling wants to have the same ratings and buy-rates success that MMA now is receiving it has to up its entertainment value more by giving the people what they want to see... and I don't think he necessarily meant doing the hardcore stuff Nowie, just entertaining booking and good use of potential like he did with the RVD's, Jerry Lynn's, Lance Storm's, etc, in ECW and the Lesnar's, Cena's, Hurricane's, Guerrero's, and cruiserweights, when he was head of creative for Smackdown and pulling in better ratings than RAW was at the time)

they're not that different. in fact, the recent overlapping of the two in recent years has been well documented. it's not that odd that people like Severn, Shamrock, and now Lesnar have been successful at both. they are, in fact, more alike than different.




that has nothing to do with the statement, and it's wrong. only in the Hogan ruled 80's and the current PG period has wrestling been considered a kid thing. even in the 80's you had other companies with a more mature product (thought not at ECW or Attitude levels) such as Crockett and Watts' promotions.





since MMA heavily involves grappling, that being actual wrestling, I'd say this is erroneous as well.

this is the point.

Actually, I would say you are very wrong.
To anyone who does not wrestling and does/or does not watch UFC, wrestling is viewed as something you grow out of when you are a kid.

On top of that, the bulk of people that are into wrestling now, got into it as children.
Not that many people get into wrestling as adults.

The grappling has nothing to do with it, its how people view it.
Wrestling is viewed as fake, so is avoided by those who do not consider it a sport, whereas MMA is real, like boxing, and appeals to a very similar crowd.

While wrestling fans are very likely to become MMA fans, MMA fans are not so likely to become wrestling fans.

When Heyman talks about how pro wrestling needs to 'get their shit together on their own', you can hear the disgust in his voice. As much as the state of the current product annoys us, it has to bother someone like him even more, considering how closely involved he was for so many years...

And yet he does nothing about it.

Can you blame him?

I know SOM doesn't...

Well in which case, he has fuck all to complain about.
If you are in a position to have an effect on something, and do nothing, then you are no better than the ones fucking things up.

Isn't that kinda the problem? He's not in the position to have an effect, and hasn't been in years. He was effectively hamstrung in the WWE, and would be in TNA if he ever went there. Fact is, this form of wrasslin' has no use for a Paul Heyman or a Jim Crockett.

He chooses to not be involved at all, so how is he ever going to make a difference.
Grimm has said many times that during his run as the main creative force behind Smackdown, the shows viewing figures were up, so being hamstrung by WWE control wasnt an issue.
And as for TNA, you only have to see how much control has been ceded to Hogan and Bisch to see that it wouldnt be impossible for Heyman to be given full control, or at least be able to gain a strong hold on the creative side.

Fact is, he isnt interested anymore, and would only go back if he got everything he wanted, and thats not good for the business either, because nobody knows if Heyman 2010 would work.

Oh and as for Crockett, the guy is overrated anyway.

Well, in all fairness, we won't know if his ideas would work until he gets the talent to work with, and the financial backing from someone on the same page as him (which he never had with ECW)

Vince had the money and territorial control that his father built, and Bischoff had Ted Turner's money, cable stations, and WCW's territorial control to back their ideas with.

Heyman never had any of that (which was one of the reasons why he dumped the NWA East title because he knew he didn't have the money or Northeastern territorial control that Vince had to complete with him... so instead of trying to compete he built a niche that could exist within WWF's territorial control of the northeast)

If he had the financial backing, exposure (hell, if it wasn't for one of my cousins in Brooklyn sending me tapes of ECW, I wouldn't have heard of ECW until Lawler invaded ECW and wouldn't have seen any of it until they started showing the PPV's here in Canada in the very late 90's) and money to keep the stars he made, ECW might still be around.

So I don't blame Heyman one bit for sitting this one out until the absolute right situation comes along.

I'm sorry, but I dont see what any of that has to do with anything.
Who said anything about him setting up his own company?

If he struggled to run a company in what was probably the height of wrestling popularity, why on Earth would he try now?
I am talking about working with either WWE or TNA.

Simple fact is he has worked with WWE in the past, and was given a good degree of creative control, and TNA would probably give up almost anything to have him on board, but he is no longer interested in wrestling.
Take a look at most of the articles he has written for The Sun over the last few years, and it either comes across as something he has had his fill of, or something he has totally lost touch with.

or does it...

to non-fans, yes, there is that perception. but how often does perception actually equate to reality? the majority of the people you see at shows are adults. there is a large adult audience for wrestling. yet, they have no product on television at current that caters to their interest.

as I said earlier, the linkage between wrestling and mma is very close. Dan Severn was one of the top UFC guys in the early 90's and held the NWA championship as well during that time, mixing both.

Heyman was ahead of the curve in promoting Taz as a UFC type wrestler and bringing in an actual fighter (Paul Varelans(sp?) to face him in ECW.

Mahon attempted the same with Shamrock and Severn later on, but didn't know how to promote them properly at that time as they were not heavy with talent that could properly work with them.

also, Shamrock actually trained for wrestling before going into UFC. he trained in florida with the Malenkos.

this is not even taking into account the more recent crossing over and similarities. they may not want to acknowledge it in their promotions and MMA fans may cry otherwise, but the two are actually very closely linked.




this is true, it's also irrelevant to the point.

the grappling has a lot to do with it. from two different standpoints. 1. it's reeducating the audience to the actual effects of real wrestling moves, making them more appreciative of seeing those moves in a wrestling match (instead of simply chanting "boring!", which was a frequent occurence in the 80's and 90's).

2.) it provides the MMA fighters with a larger moveset to potentially pull from during their matches. I've seen at least two different MMA fighters use a powerbomb in a match, and more than a couple use suplex variations. now where do you think those moves came from? not from boxing or deluded fans. . .



I do agree with this. a great deal of wrestling fans have turned to MMA to get their "fix" in recent years. myself included. but the majority of MMA fans at this time are not into pro wrestling. but since the majority of pro wrestling fans are also not into pro wrestling right now. . . I rarely feel compelled to make the argument or "educate" them on it.

Its ok to admit you are wrong, seeing as the bulk of your points actually back up everything I have said.
Nobody will think any less of you.

that all you got? constantly stomping on Snarf and Sukkboners has made you soft, CC.

as a final note, who did Dana White say he wanted to be like as a promoter? Don King or Vince Mcmahon? Mcmahon.