Something relevant to the topic: I just read in Game Informer that Catwoman is a mandatory participant during a couple intermittent segments of the game. Sucks.

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but that's a theory based on nothing. there's no indication robin will ever become a "starring role" in this game,


If you're going to use quotes, then make sure they actually quote me.

I didn't say that he or any other family member would have a "starring role" (wouldn't surprise me if Batman was switched out for Grayson in a salute to Morrison though). I've been pointing out that future installments might call for more mandatory inclusions based on his acknowledgement in this game. I say this keeping in mind the past 70 years of comicbooks branching off an increasing number of sidekicks and associates from the main characters of the serials.

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as said, i don't think she was necessarily a "selling point." batman is always the [only] selling point. but i think there's certainly intrigue about her character, and the story's evolving role of robin. carrie kelly was awesome, and i thought a great example of how robin could be well utilized. my suspicion is a large group of fans thought the same, and i can only assume frank miller, king of the "dark, grim, gritty, loner, rebel, crazy, kickass, rockstar-based-their-character-on-my" batman did as well, having created her. most certainly, i think she exceeded the role of being a "DC forced move; sucks" type.


A tad off topic: It's funny you should bring up Frank Miller since he didn't actually warm up to Robin until he started writing All Star B&R. Even when he was writing DKR, he felt the whole adolescent sidekick idea was creepy. I think that was his point when Alfred was arguing with him over Kelly going back to the cave with them: Batman had bought into the hype and romanticism just like everyone else.

I couldn't tell you if it was a DC forced move or not. My point is simply that she was not a crucial element to the book's success.

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who knows what the general populous thinks. but, also, who cares?


If that's your approach here, then your arguments have been unintentionally stuffed with straw. My initial point was that 'family' trends tend to kill the writing and that this is a reflected by a decline in patronage.

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any pre-conceived bias for the book is countered by the pre-conceived bias against it. did you ever give it an honest try?


I read a handful of the issues if that's what you mean.

Did I approach them thinking they had any hope of veing decent? No.

But it's all pretty irrelevant since Morrison's B&R is one of the root problems I have with the idea of building 'families.' After all, the book is called "Batman," but it's not actually the original character. On the contrary, it's his ward. The character that gave all these late-20s-to-mid-30s Nightwing fans Peter Pan complexes is wearing his face. And it was specifically because he was the first 'family member' to show up that all the writers and readers felt there was precedent for putting him there.