RKMBs Forums .::Important::. Politics and Current Events 17 year old Trayvon Martin shot by Neighborhood watch guy Zimmerman

Treyvon also played football. So he has some athletic ability.

Obviously....

I'm sure it was handy against that bullet...

I never proclaimed to be an expert. I just proclaimed the facts of the case. Thanks for the "expert" insight you gave on your personal experience in advanced hand-to-hand combat. Unfortunately, as has been proven, Trayvon was a scrawny unarmed teen. Zimmerman is a stout guy with a pistol. No matter how you describe either peerson, only one had a gun. End of story.

It seems to me that Pro has the image of Zimmerman walking around with the gun in an ole west holster (since, you know, he was an ex-cop) ready for the quick draw like fucking Wyatt Earp.

I think the original pictures of Martin at 14 has really sunk into a lot of people's minds and made them think that there was no way he could beat up Zimmerman. Well, I've seen a 15 year-old beat the shit out of a grown man. And she was a chick.

I think I'm going to have to disagree with you there.

Well, I guess you shouldn't have asked her to quiet down.

Probably not. But it was definitely handy for beating Zimmerman into the pavement.

Bitch wouldn't stop talking during Twilight!

And she stole my popcorn.

*sigh*

Insert joke about a movie theater and popcorn here.

Zimmerman did have visable injures.

Seems to me that Doc has the image of a 7-ft-7 'gangsta' with brass knuckles and a 9-mil, chasing poor little old Zimmerman, who was just minding his own (white)business...



Well, that and the fact he was unarmed and facing a pistol...



We're not talking USA channel action movies, man...

She said she wasn't interested in facts. Doc tried to give her some...

How big were his bullet wounds?

No, I just know that a 17 year-old isn't incapable of beating up a 27 year-old. Nor have I made any judgement that Martin was responsible. I'm only waiting for all the evidence to come in to inform my opinion.



We don't know if Martin was aware of the gun or not until he was shot. Zimmerman shows evidence of being in a fight. Neither of us know if Martin fought him in anger or self defense. Unless you have knowledge of evidence that the media itself hasn't reported (like the 'fact' that Zimmerman was an ex-cop).



Facts are facts. Even the ones you don't like.

The reports I've heard say Zimmerman was an ex cyborg cop.

Who time traveled from................... the past!

an ex cyborg time cop! he can do splits while being beaten up.

...and change his race. Don't forget that he can go from a part black half hispanic to an Aryan in the blink of an eye.

cnn.com

it's because people don't want racist whackxican child murderers to go to jail!

I bet Wondy's reading that news and getting the impression that killing blacks is profitable.

yes? And????

seriously though, whether he was "forced" to shoot to save his life or not, one thing is known for sure: Zimmerman hunted down martin. Whatever happened between the chase and martins death, we will most likely never know truthfully. but I think Zimmerman should be held accountable for at the least manslaughter. this would never have happened if he'd backed off like the operator said.

That's a lighter version of exactly what I'm saying. Zimmerman instigated this by not following directions and by taking the law into his own hands. Now an innocent kid is dead.

But, no one is listening. They're all scrambling for a way to clear this killer...

The FAUXNews Flock is bowing-and-paying as instructed...

Based on what evidence? You can only say he "hunted" him if he had murder in mind all along.

According to Zimmerman, he was observing. And by all accounts, that's exactly what he was doing until he was attacked.

The fact that Zimmerman followed was definitely what set Martin off, but that doesn't mean it should be the deciding factor in a manslaughter case. To my understanding, following someone doesn't equate to negligent homicide especially since, again, he didn't instigate a fight.



Indeed. But assuming the eye witness and Zimmerman's account is correct, one could also argue that if Martin hadn't instigated the fight no one would have died.

Fine, poor choice of words. Zimmerman chased Martin. And my evidence is the 911 call that clearly shows Zimmerman was moving at a very fast pace. The operator catches on that he's running and asks him to not, but he does anyway.

There is no evidence that Martin instigated the fight other than Zimmerman saying so. His story of Martin coming out of nowhere and asking him if he had a problem doesn't seem to match up with what the friend of Martin's said she heard over the phone.

The interview looks like O'Mara covering his ass as it was a well circulated article before he took the case that Zimmerman had set up a website to collect donations for his legal defense. Either way, if they failed to disclose it, I see Zimmerman going back inside for the duration.

No, what I'm saying is that we don't have all the facts to know what really happened and to what degree Zimmerman is culpable under the law. What you've been saying is that Zimmerman is a racist who was just waiting to kill a darkie.

Race notwithstanding, as a gun "enthusiast" and CHL holder, I'd like to weigh in on the matter.

Zimmerman should've NEVER given chase. Not JUST because the dispatchers said "Don't," though, frankly, ignoring the direction of someone working for a law enforcement agency who has you recorded is definitely not going to help your case. Ever. Take for instance Joe Horn, a Texas man who reported a break-in/robbery at his neighbor's place, which he acknowledged was vacant (he was checking in on the place while they were on vacation) and, while the phone was still live with the 911 dispatcher, he clearly expressed his intent, chased two guys down and shot them with his 12 gauge.

Both cases share not only the aforementioned common point, but also, in any defensive classes you take, be it hand-to-hand or with a weapon, the common point is: Fight to neutralize your threat, but every POSSIBLE attempt should be made to defuse the situation first, be it by flight, by intimidation or by reasoning. In effect, if someone's got a gun trained on you, it's safe to assume the average human won't be able to outrun bullets, and trying to intimidate or reason with the assailant would be an exercise in futility at worst, and a gamble at best. The only exception to this, in the state of Texas, is within your own home, where you do not need to run.

With that being said, one indisputable fact about this case (and the Horn case I alluded to) is that there was no real threat to the shooter in either one. More could have been done by trying to ID the person(s) in question and letting the police handle it. My biggest issue with this whole story is simply that: Did Zimmerman NEED to chase down Martin? What did he expect was going to come of following him? The end result was violence that could've been easily avoided by following the direction given by the dispatchers and -- dare I say it -- using a little common sense. Martin could've been a fucking Smurf, Zimmerman a Klansman. Doesn't change those facts.

See also
In effect, guy claims self defense after getting rear-ended, throwing his vehicle into reverse and pushing the departed onto the median. The guy being pushed then flashes a gun, the shooter draws his own, gets OUT of his truck and puts a bullet in the other guy's head.
End result? Charged with murder.

Suppose for a moment that Horn didn't call 911 and wasn't instructed not to leave the house. How much do you think the situation has really changed? How much more or less liable do you think Horn has become?

Actually, I was only really emphasizing the racist aspect to torment Dave. However, the facts all seem to point to the obvious conclusion. If it looks, acts, smells, and sounds like a duck, you don't have to "wait for OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT ANSWER" to morally and intellectually understand it's not a beautiful swan wearing a pearl necklace. It's a fucking duck, man. No matter how much you love your duck-brothers and want to believe they're something else.

I was searching for a Howard the Duck reference, but couldn't squeeze it out. Sorry.

Anyway, motivation is the key here. What's Zimmerman's motivation for being out in the night, armed with a pistol that's designed to do only one thing (there's no "stun-setting" in real life)? To kill. Period. What's Zimmerman's motivation to stalk an unarmed kid and murder him? Because he "looked suspicious". He was wearing a "hoodie". Profiling. Racial profiling, to be specific.

To claim you "don't know what happened so you'll wait for the facts" is a faux-naivete I'm unaccustomed to you adopting. Usually you're able to see the truth in discussions. But, I think you've allowed personal bias to cloud your objectivity. I'll repeat myself: no matter how your slice it, the math adds up the same. Zimmerman, armed with a pistol, stalked and murdered unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin because he looked 'suspiciously black'. Simple as that.

But, I'm sure someone out there still believes OJ Simpson is innocent, too...

In that particular instance, he's liable for intentional murder no matter how you look at it. It wasn't his house, there was nothing they could steal, and he chased them off his and the neighbor's property, and still killed them. That's murder.

Did he 'chase down,' Martin, implying an aggressive running after the young man, or did he quietly follow Martin, implying a less threatening action?

Note that this is not a rhetorical or argumentative question. Has one or the other been established?

"Chased"? Is that a legal term?

He told them not to move when they got caught on the property that he was charged with protecting. They moved.

Moving can mean a lot of things.

From what I understand of it Zimmerman claims that he wasn't trying to chase him down so much as he was trying to keep track of the direction he went in till the cops got there. However, at some point he pushed his luck and Martin felt threatened enough to backtrack on him.

I'm not sure if the law sees a distinction between that and all the terms that people are coming up with to describe what Zimmerman did. "Follow," "chase," "stalk," "hunt."