RKMBs Forums .::Robegories::. Media The Avengers

I try not to be seen agreeing with you. Messes with my image.



Cause Agent Hill and the guy playing Galaga (Clay Quartermain?) couldn't have had less screen time? I mean, you're talking a huge cast. They're not going to take the piss on Black Widow (as that's a WHOLE nother movie) because the actress cost so much. So, inevitably, it had to be the least "famous" actor present. Thus, Hawkeye. Trust me, I don't like it either. I'd much rather see multiple scenes of Hawkeye being a badass than Scarlett playing "pop-gun" motions with her pistols. Want to talk about pointless....at least we saw Hawk's arrows having an effect. For all I know, she was firing warning shots at the Chitauri.



Well, yeah, I mean that scene where the cop sat on the roof calling out incoming targets and taking some of them out with explosive bullets was pretty awesome. And what about where that cop used that explosive bullet to knock Loki off his chariot so that Hulk could smash him? That part was soooo cool. So, yeah....you're right. Just as useful as the cops.



Your inability to properly gauge real acting is astounding. You should fight crime. And become a movie critic.



Yes, and that's who I'm talking about Michael Motherfucking Fassbender. Or, were you thinking about Gandolf? The guy that last appeared as Magneto six years ago? Still pining for Jack Nicholson to come back to Batman? Rob...



Fair enough. But, then they would have had to take away MORE screentime from Hawkeye, and Stan doesn't have an action figure to sell. Booyah.

Seriously, I like seeing Stan pop-up in these movies. But, I wonder if this shouldn't be the last time. I mean, what do we have so far?

SPIDER-MAN: Saves bystander from falling building.
SPIDER-Man2: ??? I can't remember him appearing.
FF: Mailman Willie Lumpkin
FF2: Himself trying to get into the wedding.
HULK: ??? I didn't see it, so I don't know if he appeared.
HULK2: Poisoned by Ed Norton's blood
IRON MAN: Hugh Hefner
IRON MAN 2: Larry King
CAPTAIN AMERICA: Random General
THOR: Redneck trying to pull the hammer
AVENGERS: Surly old man in park. Listed in credits as "Rob Kamphausen, age 70"



Meh. I'm not against an ass-kicking version. And I won't lie and say I don't wish he was slightly harder than he's appeared so far. But, yeah, they're doing THAT Steve Rogers. Not the Millar parody showing the British writer has no real understanding of that historical era, and is probably resentful we saved their asses. You know the genetic snobbery of the Brits.

Meanwhile, I'll take pure-hearted-from-the-40's Steve Rogers (a personality profile you don't seem to think existed before the 50's, oddly enough). Evans played him exactly as he was presented in his solo film. And that's probably why he was presented that way in the AVENGERS. When you have super-clever narcissistic Tony, bullheaded Thor, eccentric Bruce, and badass Hawkeye, you need a moral center. That's just good storytelling. I know that's not easy to digest on modern canvas, as everyone seems to think all characters must be flawed and fucked-up as the audience members. But, contrary to modern opinion, genuinely good people still exist. I don't see any problem having them represented on the screen. It ain't like we have an overabundance of "Aww shucks!" characters.

Really, be honest. This has to do with Cap reminding you more of Superman than Batman, right?



And he was! He was the ultimate human, running headlong into battle with nothing but guts, brawn, brains, and a fucking indestructible shield. That is Captain America.

If the film had been called 'ULTIMATES' I'd agree 100% with you. But, it was The Avengers, and this was the less-cynical take on the team we know from history.

Your corporate enthusiasm for cynical darkness and violence only exposes your Republican Extremist roots, Herr KampHAUSEN!

No ever forgets that.

Ever.

heh. i can't believe you've devolved into this much of... i don't even know the best way to say it.... an internet.

fine, i'll acquiesce. your opinion is correcter than others. if you want to think that the bow and arrows guy was a majestic swooping angel of erection, even in the same movie that already treated the character one step above "guy in red shirt" or "the professor from good will hunting", that's fine.



i know, i know. the stinging shame of embarrassment will be all over me when loki steps forth at the oscars - even years after the film, he will continue to win the award from the performance of a life time as "serviceable bad guy in action film". (also, "serviceable" in this reference defers to you servicing him. because you are really gay and you love blowing dudes. especially actors in nearly generic roles.)



gandolf is magneto. fassbender (what a wonderful time he must have had in school) was a guy that played young gandolf playing magneto.



that's the misinterpretation i hate from era pieces. like films that take place during rome's reign, when they show blank white, half-broken columns. or a sanitized 50s, where everyone is a neighbor in a giant sub-burb. grandpa metheus might be calmer and peaceful now and remember days backwhen that were noble, but in the actual time, he was smoking cigars, swearing, and punching polak's 70 years ago - just as much as grandma metheus was blowing folks. the ticker tape "we won" parade after WWII, where the sailor is kissing the chick in the famous pose, was looooousy with strippers and orgy fucking. it was like a direct path to clubs on 42nd street. it was not a "good job, son *handshake*" presentation, as its always portrayed.

rogers is not an 80 year old remembering back to the glory days. he's a 20-something year old (?) who just left it the day before. "it" being a never-ending, disgusting, fate-of-the-world combat, where he was killing mother fuckers by the handful. ...while his mother fuckers (in a different handful) were being killed in front of him.

that said, i wasn't looking for him to have deep flaws and night terror flashbacks or whatever - but i would have enjoyed a more general-like, no-nonsense, fuck you tone to the character. his brief "get the suit" clash in the film with tony stark might have been the closest to that.

Yeah, no time is a idyllic as people tend to remember it. One of the reasons I enjoy "Mad Men" in fact.

That being said, I think its legitimate to have a Steve Rogers who is an "aw shucks" guy simply on the idea that he's an individual character who just happens to have that personality.

The Cap movie, in fact, made it a point that part of the reason Erskine selected him for the super-soldier program was because of his personality being different than the other recruits.

Still, I do wish they'd found a way to work in "Ultimate" Cap's "Surrender? Do you think this letter on my head stands for France?" line into the film.

Whoa, whoa, whoa man. I think you're misreading my intent. I'm not debating or arguing with you. I thought we were just joking back and forth like normal. I sincerely am sorry if you thought I was seriously trying to "take you to task" for your opinion. You just said he was no more useful than the cops. I pointed out that's not true, he just wasn't AS useful as, say, Thor. That's all. You don't have to like him. I even thought he was too underplayed, to be honest. Clint should have been firing out three arrows at a time or some crazy Legolas-shit like that.

No offense, Rob. Seriously.



Again, I thought it was obvious I was joking with you. It's obvious I want to fuck Tom Hiddleston. I think I even said as much. I'm sorry dude. Just playing with you.



You make very good points here. And I concede, you're right. There's probably a bit of romanticizing the era, as usual. But, as G-Man points out (can't believe I agree with him), it's Steve Roger's personality that makes him "Aww shucks", thus separating him from the other normal meatheads of the day. Honestly, did you see the Captain America movie? I feel like maybe you didn't and are just basing him off his appearance in Avengers. The advantage of all these characters having solo movies means Avengers didn't have to waste time justifying anyone's character except Banner. So, in this case, you're right. Steve Rogers wasn't written like a typical 40's guy. He was written like Steve Rogers, from the Captain America movie.

I do take issue with G's idiot-love for that insipid line about "France" and the "A". Not only did it sound incredibly forced and dumb on the page (it literally turned me off of that character ever since), but it just smacks of an ignorant, dinosaur culture that still thinks it's "kewl" to be all "MERICA #1 !!! WHOOO!!! FUCK THE REST OF THE WORLD!! WHITE MERICANS AND PROUD!! BEER!!!!!"



I think we'll get more of that with other movies. But, I don't think either you or Gake will be satisfied with Steve being the moral standard he has always been presented.

Again, I apologize if I pissed you off. Or, if you're an alt of someone I must have pissed off. Or you're still reeling from how horrible Green Lantern actually was (cause it sucked). Seriously? You're one of the guys I like here. I hope you aren't ever seriously pissed at me or annoyed by my playing with you. If you are, I'll stop engaging you, man. As far as I'm concerned, it's all good with us.

none taken, or (meant to be) exchanged!



legolas did, for a bow and arrow guy, kick more ass -- and i much appreciated stark's mention of that in the avengers. black widow has gigantic breasts, so that's a plus, but at least they also showed her as a negotiator and expert intel source. hawkeye has not established himself as able to contribute in any way the other fellas could. being turned into a baddie within the first 30 seconds, and remaining so for half the film didn't help matters. i don't really have a vast knowledge of avengers books, so i don't know if he ever has in any regard. but, looking just at this film, and presuming many people are getting their first look at the character, he's simply unnecessary - the movie could have happened without him in it.



sure. but like with the rest of the portrayal, i just disagree with it. i mean, yes, it is consistent in the realm of the movie universe marvel has built (i did see, and mostly enjoy, the cap movie) but i just find it poorly crafted. more than the "aw shucks" personality pre-super steve had, i like the notion that it was the "fuck you, i'll do it better" gumption he had that made him stand out. in other words, not his hoaky manners and smile, but the pre-serum moment when he jumped on the grenade in the cap film.



mad men, magic city, and spartacus (its more than just awesome boobs in every scene!) really do a great job of at least attempting a realistic portrayal of the environments.



on the larger scale, maybe his corniness adds to the lighter fun of the movie - and/or the wider (and younger) appeal of the fanbase. that said, i can't fault the decision, i just don't like it.



nossir, i only jest! honestly, i can't recall ever being pissed in the duration of the rkmbs. and if i ever were, i think i just wouldn't respond or engage in the discussion. it wouldn't be worth my time. i do, however, enjoy disagreeing with someone on a topic, because i like the debate. so, if anything, i'm happy you're fruity for lame characters like hawkeye

Rob. Your opinion is shit. And its death will be rejoiced.

Sincerely,
Prometheus

Nononono! Rob, I'm just kidding! Just kidding! Please don't hate me and make fun of me like everyone else!

Sincerely,
Prometheus

Hawkeye was shit in 28 weeks later. He got burned by his own teammates.

Rob, you're still my fall-back position for NYC lover...

Speaking of France, I hope the next Captain America film will have Batroc the Leaper.