|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 16,240
Kisser Of John Byrne Ass 15000+ posts
|
OP
Kisser Of John Byrne Ass 15000+ posts
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 16,240 |
The comic..not the movie which hasn't been released yet. ![[biiiig grin]](images/icons/grin.gif) I just read issues 12-24 last night (yeah sue me I'm backed up a year on some of my titles). This is absolutely the best superhero comic series run I've ever read in my life (and yes including Animal man, Doom patrol, GA/GL, etc, etc). The art is very good as it suits my tastes. I'm not sure on Paul Gulacy coming on I seemed to have missed issue 25 somehow. Anyway, I'm not a big fan of his art. Ed Brubaker absolutely kicks ass with his dialogue, pacing, humor, action and plots. A shame the regular Batbooks can't be this good. I mean I got the new Robin and it was pretty good and the newer issues of batgirl with the Leonardi art have been OK as well-but what's with teh core batbooks? Back to the main point. Good Gravy I loved this reading experience. I care about every freakin' one of the characters. Slam and Holly are amzing and even the more fringe characetrs like maggie and holly's girlfriend are enjoyable. I don't know that I can recommend issue 25 forward, but issues 1 -24 have been absolutely amazing. Do yourself a favor and pick these up there are 2 TPBs available now collecting the first 10-12 issues..I can't really remember the exact number of issues collected, but whatever it will be a great experience. This isn't T & A selina this is a book that focuses on character. This is a superhero comic I have been waiting a long time for.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,546 Likes: 1
living in 1962 15000+ posts
|
|
living in 1962 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,546 Likes: 1 |
I'm likin it a lot myself, though back issues seem to be few and far between.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 33,919
devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
|
|
devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 33,919 |
I don't like Catwoman or the The Bat-Man universe, but I like Cooke's art (he's the artist, right). The first TPB is on my comic shop. Should I pick it up?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 774
500+ posts
|
|
500+ posts
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 774 |
Cooke only drew the 'Tec lead and 1-4, which is all in the first trade. And it is worth your money...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 33,919
devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
|
|
devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 33,919 |
What if my money isn't good?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,233 Likes: 1
Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
|
|
Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,233 Likes: 1 |
Steal it?
I'm tempted to check this out. It gets good reviews.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 14,896
10000+ posts
|
|
10000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 14,896 |
It's good, but I wouldn't say it's revolutionary. I'd be interested to here what you have to say, but I have a slight feeling it's one of those that you might be dissapointed in(like Tom Strong, though the two aren't that similar in premise).
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 16,240
Kisser Of John Byrne Ass 15000+ posts
|
|
OP
Kisser Of John Byrne Ass 15000+ posts
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 16,240 |
Fuck it. The first 24 issues are great. Brubaker was building a starman-like universe. Apparently Dc had the bright idea to give Brubaker another shit artist like he got on Detective. I just picked up issue 25 today and Paul Gulacy's art is absolutely horrible. Fucking ruins the entire book and the art is so hard to follow it makes the story almost impossible to follow without reading it twice. But really the first 2 TPBs are great as is Selina's Big Score.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 33,919
devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
|
|
devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 33,919 |
If they're as good as her rack it's gotta be something great...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 16,240
Kisser Of John Byrne Ass 15000+ posts
|
|
OP
Kisser Of John Byrne Ass 15000+ posts
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 16,240 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 480
At Risk Youth 400+ posts
|
|
At Risk Youth 400+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 480 |
Wait you've only started reading this now? HEATHEN!!!! ![[wink]](images/icons/wink.gif) I have been saying this shit ever since I got my sweet little hands on issue 6 and went back and bought them all. This is the best monthly comic I've been reading bar none (other than maybe Gotham Central and I'm conflicted on which one I like better). About 20,000 other people agree that this is a great book, yet some naysayers with big mouths like Pariah, old men, people with elitist-arcane-nazi "traditional" art standards and teenage boys who need their comic T&A have been driving people away as long has we have been trying to get people to convert into our belief. Everyone should go pick up the first two trades (and maybe the graphic novel "Selina's Big Score") from your bookstore or library right now and read them. I don't care what your feelings are about Batman and superheroes, just do it you'll be glad you did. There still is time for salvation!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 16,240
Kisser Of John Byrne Ass 15000+ posts
|
|
OP
Kisser Of John Byrne Ass 15000+ posts
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 16,240 |
No, I read isues 1-11 as they came out..I bought it from the start because I like Brubaker. I got backed up on my reading in the past year because my Mom got sick and then I got depressed etc.
So I finally got around to reading the stack that had amassed. I like to read in large chunks or runs anyway because I think it makes the reading experience better. Just usually isn't 12 books it's usually more like 4 or 5. I always save the stuff I think is best for last anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,546 Likes: 1
living in 1962 15000+ posts
|
|
living in 1962 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,546 Likes: 1 |
quote:
Originally posted by I'm Not Mister Mxypltk:
I don't like Catwoman or the The Bat-Man universe
Just out of curiousity, why not? Just not appeal to you, generally?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 36
25+ posts
|
|
25+ posts
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 36 |
In my experience Catwoman can be either flat out, fucking amazing, or just blah.
The Black Mask arc and the few issues right after it dealing with Selina and Slam were as good as comics get.
The neverending road trip with Holly was boring as hell (the issue with Slam fighting Batman was so below Brubaker's standards) and some of the issues leading into the Black Mask arc were pretty bland.
I have no complaints with Gulacy's art, although I really liked Stewart, and I thought 25 was a step up storywise from where the book's been at the past few months.
Brubaker's Batman run was a lot more consistent. It's a shame Schreck chased him off the books. But why let someone who can actually write handle Batman when Loeb's willing to do the book?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
|
|
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7 |
I hate it. It's no secret that I loathe Brubaker's writing and what he turned Catwoman into.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 33,919
devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
|
|
devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 33,919 |
You think the T&A version was better? I used to own an issue of that series when I was like 12... Yeah, you can imagine how it ended up... quote:
Originally posted by Grimm:
quote:
Originally posted by I'm Not Mister Mxypltk:
I don't like Catwoman or the The Bat-Man universe
Just out of curiousity, why not? Just not appeal to you, generally?
I could never get into the main titles as a kid, and now it seems there's too much backstory to read to understand or enjoy what's going on. I gotta admit that part of me fears that if I get into the books I'll start buying all the backissues right until the 1986 revamp, like I did with Superman, and I can't afford that.
Outside the main titles, if I see a self contained story that seems good I buy it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 45,820
cobra kai 15000+ posts
|
|
cobra kai 15000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 45,820 |
i dig it.
i really enjoy the whoe "year one / mazzucchelli" look many DC books have adopted over the past few years -- specifically the bat books, as it adds an additional air of "believability" to the adventures.
this catwoman is significantly more enjoyable than the previous run -- especially moreso than those dreadful final 20 issues or so.
this catwoman has a better character, a better personality, a better set of goals, a (better) supporting cast... and, most importantly, which i always felt lacked in the previous run, a reason to have a book! there is an interest generated in her stories that substantiate the title. she's no longer just a popular bat-character that can generate sales through name, alone. she's an appealing protagonist, surrounded by interesting companions, with a deviant past and a cloudy, yet clearing, future.
like i said, i dig it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
|
|
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7 |
quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
i dig it.
i really enjoy the whoe "year one / mazzucchelli" look many DC books have adopted over the past few years -- specifically the bat books, as it adds an additional air of "believability" to the adventures.
this catwoman is significantly more enjoyable than the previous run -- especially moreso than those dreadful final 20 issues or so.
this catwoman has a better character, a better personality, a better set of goals, a (better) supporting cast... and, most importantly, which i always felt lacked in the previous run, a reason to have a book! there is an interest generated in her stories that substantiate the title. she's no longer just a popular bat-character that can generate sales through name, alone. she's an appealing protagonist, surrounded by interesting companions, with a deviant past and a cloudy, yet clearing, future.
like i said, i dig it.
COMPLETELY disagree. I thought she was very interesting previously and it definitely was not because she was a Bat-character--OR because of Balent.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 14,896
10000+ posts
|
|
10000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 14,896 |
An interesting character? Or just....more interesting than the current character?
I honestly don't see how anyone could think the previous incarnation of Catwoman was "interesting". Infact, I don't know anyone who did. In my time working in a comic shop, and in all my dealings with comic fans anywhere, beit in real life or on the internet, the only reasons I ever heard for reading Balent's Catwoman were:
1.I'm obsessed with Catwoman and thus must buy everything involving her despite the quality.
and/or:
2.I like disproportionate, large breasted women, of which Jim Balent provides many via the pages of Catwoman.
Balent's Catwoman was worthless garbage. Stripperella in a cat-suit. Mindless trash devoid of any intellectually stimulating qualities. Like Brubaker or not, I think it is necessary that we at least acknowledge the changes that were made needed to be made(sales clearly support that theory).
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
|
|
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7 |
*shrug* It wasn't to me. Proceed to judge. But Animalman, the changes that "needed" to be made--Did they have to be correlative to Brubaker's changes from your POV?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 14,896
10000+ posts
|
|
10000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 14,896 |
The character needed a new direction, one that made the character more relatable and less of a fanboy cliche.
You don't have to like Brubaker's changes, but I think you'd be foolish to deny that it's been a highly successful revamp; one that might have even saved Catwoman from comic book limbo.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
|
|
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7 |
I know it's successful. It's not like I have my eyes shut and fingers in my ears. I'm just a bit perplexed as to why.
While I agree that SOME changes needed to be made, I think Brubaker went to far and he also writes horribly IMO.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,233 Likes: 1
Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
|
|
Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,233 Likes: 1 |
I kind of liked the Blent Catwoman, as some meaningless fun with the same sort of silliness as you see in Danger Girl. quote:
Originally posted by Grimm:
quote:
Originally posted by I'm Not Mister Mxypltk:
I don't like Catwoman or the The Bat-Man universe
Just out of curiousity, why not? Just not appeal to you, generally?
I'm extremely hesitant to buy any Bat-book. The last Bat-book I bought was Batman/Planetary. And before that one, I've got no idea. I generally think that Bat-books are low quality publications that rely upon Bat-fans' Bat-obsessiveness for sales, and not good stories.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
|
|
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7 |
quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
I kind of liked the Blent Catwoman, as some meaningless fun with the same sort of silliness as you see in Danger Girl.
quote:
Originally posted by Grimm:
quote:
Originally posted by I'm Not Mister Mxypltk:
I don't like Catwoman or the The Bat-Man universe
Just out of curiousity, why not? Just not appeal to you, generally?
I'm extremely hesitant to buy any Bat-book. The last Bat-book I bought was Batman/Planetary. And before that one, I've got no idea. I generally think that Bat-books are low quality publications that rely upon Bat-fans' Bat-obsessiveness for sales, and not good stories.
The sad part is...you're right. ![[sad]](images/icons/frown.gif)
I may hone a lot of Bat-books, but there are only a precious few that I truly covet. Most of them originated from the good ol' Dixon/Oneil days...*sigh* ![[eh... i dunno... ]](graemlins/ehidunno.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,233 Likes: 1
Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
|
|
Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,233 Likes: 1 |
I have the Goodwin/Simonson Manhunter book, which incidentally has Batman in the last story, and I re-read DKR regularly. I liked Killing Joke. I have an amusing Batman/Judge Dredd crossover somewhere. Otherwise, I couldn't name a single Bat-book I have read and enjoyed.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 45,820
cobra kai 15000+ posts
|
|
cobra kai 15000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 45,820 |
quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
Otherwise, I couldn't name a single Bat-book I have read and enjoyed.
sez the guy who just said he can't remember the last one he read!
dave, yer a fan of the less mainstream books, like vertigo n'such -- you'd like brubaker. that said, give catwoman a try. its superheroey at times, but still good. more importantly, tho, give gotham central a try. that has very little super hero involvement (especially for a "batbook")
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
|
|
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7 |
quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
I have an amusing Batman/Judge Dredd crossover somewhere. Otherwise, I couldn't name a single Bat-book I have read and enjoyed.
Is that the one written by Alan Grant? Because, while parts of it were funny, there were other parts that made me want to question his sanity. ![[no no no]](graemlins/nono.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 23,089
The Once, and Future Cunt 15000+ posts
|
|
The Once, and Future Cunt 15000+ posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 23,089 |
I just wish Stewart would become the book's regular artist.
His art is really nice, man.
On Catwoman I mean.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,233 Likes: 1
Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
|
|
Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,233 Likes: 1 |
Rob - its funny how that marketing works. for Batfans, "Gotham Central" must have a lot of appeal. For me, it has no appeal because its set in the Bat continuity core. Anyway, I'll flick through one the next time I'm in a comic shop. quote:
Originally posted by Pariah:
quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
I have an amusing Batman/Judge Dredd crossover somewhere. Otherwise, I couldn't name a single Bat-book I have read and enjoyed.
Is that the one written by Alan Grant? Because, while parts of it were funny, there were other parts that made me want to question his sanity.
That's the one. I particularly liked the dead chicken on Judge Death's shoulder.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
|
|
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7 |
The peak of my laughter came when we saw that Judge Death's greatest fear was cute little stuffed animals. :lol:
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 16,240
Kisser Of John Byrne Ass 15000+ posts
|
|
OP
Kisser Of John Byrne Ass 15000+ posts
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 16,240 |
To me the first 24 issues of Catwoman had a real "starman" type feel....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,546 Likes: 1
living in 1962 15000+ posts
|
|
living in 1962 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,546 Likes: 1 |
Actually, Dave, Gotham Central's probably the least core of the books from what I've seen. Batman's presence is felt, but he's seen very little. That and Brubaker's Catwoman to me, are crime books with some superhero elements.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 33,919
devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
|
|
devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 33,919 |
quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
I have the Goodwin/Simonson Manhunter book, which incidentally has Batman in the last story, and I re-read DKR regularly. I liked Killing Joke. I have an amusing Batman/Judge Dredd crossover somewhere. Otherwise, I couldn't name a single Bat-book I have read and enjoyed.
Ever read Arkham Asylum?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 53,734
Educator to comprehension impaired (JLA, that is you) 50000+ posts
|
|
Educator to comprehension impaired (JLA, that is you) 50000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 53,734 |
no but i once danced with the devil by the pale moonlight!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 33,919
devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
|
|
devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 33,919 |
PALE MOONLIGHT DEVIL DANCER!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 14,896
10000+ posts
|
|
10000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 14,896 |
I liked the Batman/Dredd crossover "The Ultimate Riddle", I think Grant wrote that one, too.
I don't think Brubaker's that Vertigo-like....he's really more of a standard writer, though I've enjoyed his work more than most other Bat-writers.
MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2
1 post
|
|
1 post
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2 |
Quote:
I don't think Brubaker's that Vertigo-like....he's really more of a standard writer, though I've enjoyed his work more than most other Bat-writers.
He's written for Vertigo on several occasions.
Catwoman v2 = top notch.
Why do you do it? Do you believe you're fighting for something more than your survival? Is it freedom? Or truth? Perhaps peace? Could it be for love? Illusions. Vagaries of perception. The temporary constructs of a feeble human intellect trying desperately to justify an existence that is without meaning or purpose.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,978
1500+ posts
|
|
1500+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,978 |
Quote:
Quote:
I don't think Brubaker's that Vertigo-like....he's really more of a standard writer, though I've enjoyed his work more than most other Bat-writers.
He's written for Vertigo on several occasions.
Catwoman v2 = top notch.
Brubaker wrote Deadenders which is a lost Vertigo classic. When that title was cancelled he managed to bring it to a dignified and satisfying conclusion and that impressed me.
It's funny that I've never checked out any of his Batman stuff.
Are there any TPBs that I should be reading?
Last edited by backwards7; 2003-12-26 4:35 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,978
1500+ posts
|
|
1500+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,978 |
I'm dragging this thread slightly off-topic but only for a moment, because something just occured to me.
I was reading the American Splendor anthology and there's a story in it, dating back to 1986, where the writer, Harvey Pekar goes to a comic book convention in San Diego. He gets picked-up at the airport by a guy called Jack Dickens who owns a comic store called Comic Kingdom. With him is a man called Ed Brubaker, who helps out at the store.
Is this the same Ed Brubaker?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 14,896
10000+ posts
|
|
10000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 14,896 |
Quote:
He's written for Vertigo on several occasions.
I know, I've read Sleeper and Point Blank.
Keith Giffen's written for Vertigo, too, and he's about as much of a cornball writer as they come.
MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
|
|
|
|
|
