Quote:

Darknight613 said:
Quote:

Animalman said:
Well said, Darkknight....and quite extensively said, too, I might add. If not for the fact that your thoughts actually echoed some of my own I might think you were a Dave the Wonder Boy alternate ID.



You must have missed the heated clashes that Dave The Wonder Boy and I have had in the past.
(Hopefully, those are behind us. ) Besides, Dave doesn't seem the type to have an alternate ID - he does more than enough yapping with just the one! (sorry, Dave - I couldn't resist. )

But seriously, folks...sorry if I rambled on too much. I just wanted to make sure people understood the point I was trying to make, and I just happened to go off on a tangent or two in the process.



I was a bit surprised to see Darknight613 suggested to be an alternate I.D. for me. There was a time when we were about as friendly as Superman and Lex Luthor.



Some of the topics where we clashed:
"Do liberals HATE the President ?"
http://www.rkmbs.com/Number=205426

"Partisansship"
http://www.rkmbs.com/Number=217045

"Do racists have lower I.Q.'s ?"
http://www.rkmbs.com/Number=205705

But I think you're an okay guy, Darknight. You have a good heart, even if we've both phrased things in a way that rubbed each other the wrong way.
And even if you don't always realize that I'm right .

~

I guess what made us look similar was Darknight613's detailing of Mosaic and Talmudic ideology, bearing a vague resemblance to how I've often detailed Old and New Testament ideology.

While I have great respect for Judaism, I'm not a Jew. I'm a Protestant Christian. Or more specifically, I'm a Presbyterian.

Thank you for your comments, DK613. You're absolutely right, that I don't use alternate I.D.'s, and if I ever retire my Dave the Wonder Boy I.D., I'll make it clear what my new I.D. is.


Regarding your issue-related comments:

Quote:

Originally posted by Darknight613:
Now for the point of all this: I don't know how it works with Islam but if Islam has an oral law that works the same way as Judaism's, you're more likely to get a peaceful, neighbor-friendly Islamic messgae. If you only go by the Quran and disregard oral law, you get extremists and militant fanatics. That's why quoting from the Quran isn't always giving an accurate representation of Islam.

Does Islam have an oral law as well as the Quran? Do Muslim scholars write commentary on the Quran explaining obscurities in its text, or have a separate book of how to practice the actual laws of Islam in your day-to-day life, or anything like that?



I don't fully understand why the change occurred, but in the peak era of Islamic thought, when Islam was a leader in science and intellectual thought, there was much more of a Talmudic style of discourse and sharing of ideas.
But in the last 100 years or so, for reasons I don't fully understand, Islam has become much more focused on the Quran, and on the writings of a few influential Imams, Mullahs, and Ayatollahs, to the brutal repression of all dissent.

To answer Animalman's above counterpoint:

Quote:

Originally posted by Animalman:

I still don't see how quoting passages from the Qu'ran proves Islam is a violent religion. At least, not any more than quoting passages from the New Testament proves Christianity is a violent religion, or quoting passages from the Torah proves Judaism is a violent religion. For every Osama Bin Laden there's a Nathan Bedford Forest, a Tomas de Torquemada, an Adolf Hitler. To these people, religion was nothing more than the means by which they could push their own political agendas. The only thing their actions show is that any message, no matter how noble seeming, can be twisted and distorted to perpetuate evil.



Many Muslims throughout the world are taught from early childhood to memorize the entire Quran. A very strict interpretation of Islamic law, that rationalizes murder of unbelievers, suicide bombings, brutalization of women, "honor-killing" of female family members perceived by them to have dishonored their family name, clitoral amputation (female circumcision) and on and on. Violence based on deeply entrenched religious teaching.

Osama Bin Ladin and his followers aren't in any way religiously similar to Hitler.
Islam isn't a manipulative political tool for Al Qaida, they passionately believe they are acting based on the Quran, and are eagerly willing to kill or suicide-bomb in the name of those Quran verses.
Again, see Osama Bin Ladin's Declaration of Jihad on Jews and Crusaders, that I linked from the Washington Post, at the bottom of page 1 of this topic.

I challenge you to find a similar Bible-scripture-based statement by Hitler. Hitler had the Accord with the Vatican in 1933 that gave Hitler international political endorsement by the Pope, but the Accord is not scriptural, and was strictly a political maneuver.
In point of fact (much as many here seem to want to brand Hitler a Christian) Hitler viewed Christianity as a "Jewish infestation" that pacified the natural warrior nature of Aryans, with Christian beliefs of mercy and peacefulness.

Hitler at one point tried to resurrect Norse mythology through propaganda as a more warrior-focused ideology, but it was not well received by the German people.

And Hitler also imprisoned many Christians in concentration camps, such as Jehovah's Witnesses (who I heard a historical lecture on, of individuals giving personal accounts of their captivity), and Pastor Martin Neimoller, who I've quoted in prior posts.

So it's a complete myth to say that Hitler, on any level, acted in the name of Christianity. He used the Pope to get early diplomatic recognition, during his upward rise to power, not as part of some kind of Christian crusade.

~

Regarding Islam, I think it's highly relevant to criticize the violently fanatical Quran teachings that these Muslim acts are firmly (fundamentally) based on.

Again, a Washington Post article said that between 30 to 50% of every Muslim nation is boycotting U.S. goods --and that's WITH the pleas of their own leaders NOT to boycott the U.S., because they'll only damage their own economy, with virtually no effect on the U.S. economy-- and as many have Osama Bin Ladin screen savers, and other posters and calanders glamorizing the al Qaida destruction of 9-11.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36461-2002Jul7.html



To say nothing, as I said earlier, of Muslims in the U.S. who also proselytize radical Islamist beliefs. And even American born and educated Muslims (as I said earlier, that appeared on 60 Minutes' "Young, American and Muslim" story) that fully embrace the concepts of Jihad and suicide bombing.

It is not "a few", it is a vast and dangerous percentage of the global Muslim population.

As Quran-based violence worldwide, from Turkey to Iraq to Israel to Sudan to Indonesia to the Phillipines, and elsewhere, attests to.

Again, as said earlier, when violence of the IRA or an abortion clinic occurs, Christians worldwide groan with embarrassment.
Whereas violence in the name of Allah (9-11, suicide bombings) sends Muslims in the streets cheering with jubilant approval.
I find it very illogical to deny their Quran scripture is the obvious cause of that violence.