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Animalman said:
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Dave the Wonder Boy said:
I find "simplistic" a rather insulting characterization for a view that is so widely held among pundits, scholars and Journalists writing about the situation in Europe and the Middle East.



So these pundits, scholars and journalists believe that Europe opposes U.S action simply because they want to usurp our position there?

I'd image they would find that insulting, unless I'm misinterpreting you.



Actually, on second look, this annoys me too.

It assumes, again, insultingly, that I've either misinterpreted or deliberately misrepresented what they've written and said, and adding to the insult, that they'd be pissed off by the context in which I quoted them.

Read their writings !

More presumptuous, insulting arrogance on your part.

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Animalman said:
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Dave the Wonder Boy said:

There are other side issues, sure. But that's what it ultimately boils down to.



Ah, ok then, so why is the suggestion that these "side issues"(as you call them) exist so insulting, when even you, yourself, admit they do?



Because you can get lost in the details and miss the major thrust of what is occurring between Europe, the Middle East, and the United States. Which I attempted to focus on.

The side issues themselves are not insulting, your dismissing my evaluation of the core issue as "simplistic" is what's insulting.

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Animalman said:
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Dave the Wonder Boy said:

I actually mean both.



What "self serving" reasons would the general civilian population have to be opposed to U.S action?



I believe I'd focused in my comment on European anti-American opinion originating from liberal activist groups and liberal governments in Europe, a popular attitude cultivated to support attempts of the European Union to strengthen itself by usurping U.S. diplomatic influence in the Middle East.

But if you insist, on the smaller issue of what "selfish motivation" Europeans in the streets have for anti-Americanism, it's to scapegoat the U.S. to rationalize the failures they see in their own government, and believe in the superiority of their own system. Everyone wants to believe their culture is the best culture.
But anti-Americanism is less something the European population chooses, it is more something that is fed to them, by their media and government, and activists.

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Animalman said:
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Dave the Wonder Boy said:

But more so in my comment, I was referring to leftist activist groups, and the left-leaning media, and the many pro-Muslim voices in The Guardian and elsewhere, which are obviously not leftist, but combine in a shared song of slanted anti-Americanism, that absolutely refuses to even give passing counter-perspective to the fact that the United States has a case for its war on terror, and an equal case for invading Iraq.



How exactly could they "give passing counter-perspective"? If you have an opinion on something, that's your opinion. Sometimes it just isn't going to coincide with someone elses. Would you expect them to be swayed by your argument, because you might think the war was justified? I don't see either side backing down here, and probably rightfully so. If this was such a clearcut issue, it wouldn't be one of the most heavily debated topics in the world today.





I was speaking of the European news media, not individuals. It is their job to provide both sides. Editorials or public forums are another issue.

But my own samplings of BBC, DW News, The Guardian, and other Euro-news, is that it's one-sided and anti-American, and the argument for war in Iraq is never even made. I feel it is barely made in the liberal press of the United States, and how much less so, in Europe and the rest of the world ? No wonder so much of the world opposes the Iraq war. They've been given virtually no counter-argument.




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Animalman said:
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Dave the Wonder Boy said:

As Kagan said in an earlier interview(based on his observation, working in Europe), the case for invasion of Iraq is not even given token mention in European news, so of course the European public has a negative opinion of the Iraq War.



I can't testify to what is and isn't given credence in European news(I doubt anyone could really determine that, not even Kagan), but Europe isn't made up of third world countries. Information is available to those who wish to find it. Who's to say that the European case is given mention here in America? We're certainly no more or less guilty of media slanting than they are. The fact is, non-partisan reporting doesn't exist, despite what those reporting might say.



Well, I can't testify with absolute authority on European media and popular opinion. But I do have some idea, from watching BBC and other European sources I mentioned, and hearing panel discussions of scholars and journalists and leaders who frequent these places, that I see interviewed.