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That's totally inaccurate. The fact that future itself, in all its possible forms, is speculative makes it one giant composition of variables. And the very definition of "variable" means multiple parallel scenarios--And in the end, that would mean "alternate".
Yes. We have one set destiny. But the fact of the matter is: We do not know it. We can only see things from our own POV and not an omnicient all knowing one, in which case, we have to measure odds and theory.
Unless there was some sort of dictator of time, tangible or not, in the JLU that spouts out prophesies with perfect accuracy, which, in and of themselves, lead people down that specified path, I don't see your arguments as having a lot of credence in the case of the JLU continuum. Even then, your context would have to remain in the vicinity of that dictator's governing hand.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
That's totally inaccurate. The fact that future itself, in all its possible forms, is speculative makes it one giant composition of variables. And the very definition of "variable" means multiple parallel scenarios--And in the end, that would mean "alternate".
Once again, no. You are assuming that there are multiple possible forms. This is not defined, only theory. Please read my above post for clarification.
Quote:
Pariah said:
Yes. We have one set destiny. But the fact of the matter is: We do not know it. We can only see things from our own POV and not an omnicient all knowing one, in which case, we have to measure odds and theory.
Exactly! Thank you. This is the precise reason the whole idea of alternate futures is not definitive.
Quote:
Pariah said:
Unless there was some sort of dictator of time, tangible or not, in the JLU that spouts out prophesies with perfect accuracy, which, in and of themselves, lead people down that specified path, I don't see your arguments as having a lot of credence in the case of the JLU continuum. Even then, your context would have to remain in the vicinity of that dictator's governing hand.
Read above.
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This thread is confusing.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Quote:
Wednesday said:
There are several inconsistencies that separate the future seen in this episode from the one seen in Batman Beyond, not the least of which is the fact that WarHawk is still alive AFTER Terry McGinnis, Batman joins the League. He died in the episode The Call: Part 1, in the third season.
Yeah, superheroes come back, but there are other inconsistencies that are a little harder to crack. I can really look for them if you want, but you'll have to give me time.
Warhawk didn't die. In the call part 2 they revealed he set his armor on autopilot when it exploded because he suspected something odd was going on.
I'll admit the events of the episode were undone by the end but that was still the Batman Beyond future they went to.
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K. I'll believe that.
Still, before they made all these huge changes to their site, the people at TV Tome had a list of inconsistencies that made the episode a non-Batman Beyond episode in their goofs section. That episode lacks a goofs section now (cry). I'll try to find the list elsewhere.
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I really hate the new TVtome site.
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Quote:
Wednesday said:
Once again, no. You are assuming that there are multiple possible forms. This is not defined, only theory. Please read my above post for clarification.
Wednesday, you're contradicting yourself. Proposed future, by definition, is one giant schmeal of possibilities--Especially since we're viewing time travel from the viewpoint of the heroes and not an omnipotent one. The Once and Future Thing didn't prove set destinations since Batman's future changed after he went to the future.
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
I really hate the new TVtome site.
Me too. They went all commercial.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Quote:
Wednesday said:
Once again, no. You are assuming that there are multiple possible forms. This is not defined, only theory. Please read my above post for clarification.
Wednesday, you're contradicting yourself. Proposed future, by definition, is one giant schmeal of possibilities
No, it isn't.
I'm pretty much done here, though. Obviously, you're sticking with the view that there can't be one static future. Of course, you couldn't possibly know this, but I have no problem letting you go on thinking that you do.
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Of course there's one static future, but the fact of the matter is that we'll never know what it is and the possibilities for what that static future will be are endless, meaning there's not such thing as a static timeline as you suggest. It's ever-changing until we finalize its shape.
I'll say it one more time: There's nothing to suggest that simply because Batman saw the future of Batman Beyond that-that will be his inevitable destination.
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Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
Quote:
King Snarf said:
That's the Elongated Man, jackass.
The Elongated Man's name is Jackass? I thought it was Ralph Dibney.
"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." - George W. Bush State of the Union speech Jan 28, 2003
"mission accomplished" - George W. Bush May 2, 2003
It does not require a majority to prevail but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brushfires in peoples minds". Samuel Adams said that. Pretty deep for a guy that makes beer for a living - The Boondocks
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Re:Justice League Unlimited: Epilouge
Quite possibly the most incredible cartoon I've ever seen.
The level of drama, emotion, poetry, poignancy, and sophistication of that episode was awe inspiring.
Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else. --Will Rogers
"I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees." - George W. Bush
I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would .. try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile. - Condoleeza Rice
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Damn, I missed it! When are they rerunning it?
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Never. It was a one-time only showing. Too bad for you! 
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Right now there's a chorus of angels laughing at you.
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Quote:
PJP said:
Never. It was a one-time only showing. Too bad for you!
Yet Teen Titans manages to air 59 episodes an hour.
Bow ties are coool.
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Quote:
Chewy Walrus said:
Damn, I missed it! When are they rerunning it?
Quote:
Bart/Lisa: Aaaaaaaaaaah!
Gary: We need the outlet for our rock tumbler..
Bart/Lisa: Plug it in! Plug it in!
Gary: What, the rock tumbler or the TV...
Krusty: Wow! They'll never let us show that again! Not in a million years!
college10.mp3 138kb
Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else. --Will Rogers
"I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees." - George W. Bush
I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would .. try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile. - Condoleeza Rice
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To comfort the powerless and make the powerful uncomfortable.
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Basically. Quote:
unrestrained id said:
Re:Justice League Unlimited: Epilouge
Quite possibly the most incredible cartoon I've ever seen.
The level of drama, emotion, poetry, poignancy, and sophistication of that episode was awe inspiring.
Indeed. That was an incredible story. Best written episode I can remember.
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Meh. I'd rather they focus on the more continuous episodes than on elseworlds.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Meh. I'd rather they focus on the more continuous episodes than on elseworlds.
Its NOT an Elseworld when its set in the future, idiot.
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A future that can never be confirmed, by Timm and McDuffie's own words, thus it's an elseworlds until further notice.
The series is never gonna get that far, and by the creators' own words, the continuum is subject to change. That's the excuse they used when making Batman Beyond in the first place.
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You know, I just slept on it, and now I realize that I hated that episode.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
A future that can never be confirmed, by Timm and McDuffie's own words, thus it's an elseworlds until further notice.
The series is never gonna get that far, and by the creators' own words, the continuum is subject to change. That's the excuse they used when making Batman Beyond in the first place.
Just for clarity. Have you seen the episode or did you read a review of the script?
Bow ties are coool.
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Quote:
Wednesday said:
You know, I just slept on it, and now I realize that I hated that episode.
I disliked the chance happening type stuff. That Batman has some sort of hereditary spirit or something. Total bullshit. That thing where his dad died by chance, but it was implied that was Batman's destiny or some shit..... 
Why'd you dislike it?
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Quote:
Wednesday said:
You know, I just slept on it, and now I realize that I hated that episode.
I disliked the chance happening type stuff. That Batman has some sort of hereditary spirit or something. Total bullshit. That thing where his dad died by chance, but it was implied that was Batman's destiny or some shit.....
Why'd you dislike it?
You mean like Superman landing with the Kents instead of some assholes? Or lightning striking the Flash? Or the thousands of "classic" stories where Batman is shown as a hero of fate?
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Quote:
Pariah said:
.....What?
read what you said bitching about fate, and read what I said showing how several superheroes are essentially created by fate.
Also, keep in mind that Amanda Waller was trying to recreate Batman using psychological profiles and childhood trauma, not just dropping the seed and assuming it'll all go the same.
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
read what you said bitching about fate, and read what I said showing how several superheroes are essentially created by fate.
I'm not sure where you get this "Batman is hero of fate" stuff but simply because Flash's and Superman's fates were to end up where the did, that doesn't mean its the fate of every descendent of Batman to become another Batman. That's what I was complaining about when said that hereditary hero additive shit was gay.
Quote:
Also, keep in mind that Amanda Waller was trying to recreate Batman using psychological profiles and childhood trauma, not just dropping the seed and assuming it'll all go the same.
That wasn't what I was talking about. The fact that it did all go the same even though Andrea Beaumont refused to help is what I was angry about--More than that they think it's that simple to create a Batman is retarded.
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Quote:
Pariah said:That wasn't what I was talking about. The fact that it did all go the same even though Andrea Beaumont refused to help is what I was angry about--More than that they think it's that simple to create a Batman is retarded.
She didn't say it was that simple. She said herself that Terry didn't inherit Bruce's mind, just his heart, and his stubborness when it came to fighting for what was right. And its the same idea as Bruce inheriting his doctor father's compassion for helping people.
She was saying that it was fate that lead Terry to Bruce.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Andrea Beaumont
Are you sure?
It looked exactly like Barbara Gordon as depicted in the 'Batman Beyond' series.
Just because it was a Phantasm outfit, I'm not so sure it was Andrea Beaumont.
Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else. --Will Rogers
"I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees." - George W. Bush
I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would .. try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile. - Condoleeza Rice
Barbara Bush: It's Good Enough for the Poor
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Barbara wouldn't kill anyone. Andrea, however, has no problem taking a life.
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
She was saying that it was fate that lead Terry to Bruce.
And that's implied to be a sort of predestination on their part. Which is stupid.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Barbara wouldn't kill anyone. Andrea, however, has no problem taking a life.
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
She was saying that it was fate that lead Terry to Bruce.
And that's implied to be a sort of predestination on their part. Which is stupid.
why?
all heroes have origins that rely on predestination of some kind or another.
Bow ties are coool.
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No they don't.
From what reference do you make this claim with?
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Quote:
Pariah said:
No they don't.
From what reference do you make this claim with?
Again.
Superman landed with the Kents who instilled in him the values to become Superman. They just happened to be driving along that particular road when his ship landed.
Barry Allen/Wally West just happened to be standing by the window and a shelf of chemicals when lightning struck (the same lab twice).
Bruce Wayne just happened to be at the circus on the night Dick Grayson's parents were killed.
All examples of fate, its a big part of the superhero genre.
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In the context you're trying to use, Supes, Bats, and Flash were prophesied to be effected by those occurences--But they weren't. They simply happened the way they did and it became their fate. Amanda Waller was trying to say it was Terry's fate to become Batman before he actually became Batman--And that's BS.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
In the context you're trying to use, Supes, Bats, and Flash were prophesied to be effected by those occurences--But they weren't. They simply happened the way they did and it became their fate. Amanda Waller was trying to say it was Terry's fate to become Batman before he actually became Batman--And that's BS.
She was saying that was her belief that fate stepped in.
It was that same chance that created the other heroes to lead Terry to Bruce Wayne's house the night before his father's murder.
Bow ties are coool.
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I think the idea that Terry's DNA was manipulated before he was even born to make him more like Bruce only takes away from the character. It adds nothing.
If you want to think of it as such, he was already a "hero of fate." It doesn't help to know that half of him is Bruce Wayne, especially when the character was built on the idea that he was supposed to be so different from his predecessor.
And Pariah is right, it wasn't much of a JLU episode. I've seen more JLU involvement in thirty minutes of Batman Beyond. It would have fit better as the final BB episode.
I'm complaining but the storytelling is great, the best I've seen on JLU really. It's just that the story itself needed work.
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
She was saying that was her belief that fate stepped in.
It was that same chance that created the other heroes to lead Terry to Bruce Wayne's house the night before his father's murder.
Yeah, and the fact that they used such a deus ex machina plot device is what makes the story behind this episode a piece of shit.
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