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Star Trek: The Lost GenerationIn the span of four decades, five television incarnations and countless motion pictures, the 23rd-century crew of the Starship Enterprise and the brave utopians of the United Federation of Planets have boldly gone where no one has gone before.
But now, with the franchise seemingly gone and no new Star Trek film or show in sight, the world’s most infamously obsessive fans have been forced to go where no Trekkie has gone before: off Trek.
“Trekdom has scaled back to its very core,” said Gabriel C. Koerner, an Emmy-nominated visual-effects artist and a man generally known as the Star Trek “superfan.”
But the time without Trek may, ironically, be the best thing to happen to the franchise, according to some.
“It may feel like a mourning period for a lot of people, but sometimes you don’t know until you look back and assess what happened,” Roger Nygard, director of the documentaries "Trekkies" and "Trekkies 2," said. “My guess is if history is an example, this will be a very fertile time for the fans.”
The final Star Trek television series, "Enterprise," (2001-2005) suffered from the ridicule of diehard and notoriously nitpicking Trekkies — or Trekkers, as they preferred to be called.
It couldn’t find a new audience, either, and by the time Paramount took it off the air in May 2005, its ratings were dismal.
On the silver screen, things weren’t much better.
The fan clubs are still out there, and the conventions are still being held, funny ears and all. But some Star Trek fan clubs have redirected some of their energies to other sci-fi shows, like the Sci-Fi Channel’s successful remake of “Battlestar Galactica,” which notably includes writers from “Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.”
“A lot of the fans have been tuning into shows like ‘Battlestar Galactica’ and ‘Stargate,’” said Denise Crosby, who was part of the original cast of and had an ongoing role on "Star Trek: The Next Generation" (which ran from 1987-1994).
And, according to Koerner, attendance at Star Trek conventions has been noticeably down, with some organizers forced to merge purely Trekkian events with those dedicated to other sci-fi and fantasy themes.
“[One convention organizer], primarily known for organizing Star Trek conventions, has indeed been refocusing its conventions into multi-genre-show events, because there has been a perceptible drop-off in Star Trek interest,” he said.
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It's nice that with the domestic termoil we have today, and our sons and daughters are dying overseas in war that people still have time to write articles abouts shows that arn't on anymore.
I hope somebody's parents are happy today of all the sacrifices they had to make to send thier child to colleage for journalism.
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Sci fi fans are watching other sci-fi shows. Denise Crosby must be truly blessed with intelligance!
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Says the guy with the Doctor Who avatar.  ..... wait....... 
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Fuck you dude that show is in production! 
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I do think the failure of Enterprise as well as the low ratings of Deep Space Nine was simply due to tightassed fans. Neither were perfect series in the least, but have we all forgotten such episodes as Spock's Brain and pretty much the first three seasons of The Next Generation? I think the writing was really good on those shows, for the most part. The fact that the same fans who dismissed DS9 for its dark overtones are embracing the new Battlestar with the same overtones and writers just shows that it wasn't the writing that was wrong, just the fact that it had a Star Trek title. The franchise does need a rest with a, what, fifteen or so year run of always having a Trek on TV? Let the dust settle. In ten or so years, I think fans will probably be a little more willing to accept a revised Trek that does more than tread the same ole ground episode after episode.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Personally, the darker DS9 got, the more I liked it. By the time the Dominion Wars rolled around, I was a happy little nerd.
Reveling in the knowledge that Sammitch will never interrupt my nookie ever again.
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I didn't care much for the first season of Star Trek; the Next Generation...and the second season was uneven, with some very good episodes mixed with some not so good ones...but once the show entered the third season, it became much more interesting.
As for the other shows, I like DS 9 and Voyager well enough. Hopefully, at some point in the future, another Trek show will appear...but now is not the time. The franchise burned out..and, like a Timelord, it needs time to regenerate.
Of course, Star Trek is NOT the most important thing in life..though it makes for a lovely diversion.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok. 
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I think the problem for "Trek" ultimately came down to, as the article hints, too much of it going on the air.
There was almost a 20 year gap between the original series and TNG. That gave the writers of the show 20 years of cultural change-and 20 years of new technology-to work with.
Since, TNG, however, the producers kept one version of Trek after another coming out, each mining the same themes over and over.
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I don't know if they all mined the same themes over and over. In my mind, DS9 was a very different sort of show from TNG. I think there were other factors involved in its demise.
I'll be the first to agree, though, that Voyager tried to be nothing more than an TOS/TNG mix.
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whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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True, DSN is probably the one exception to that statement. However, by running DSN more or less concurrently with either TNG or Voyager, you had the one show that was trying to do something a little different being further diluted by the other shows (and vice versa) since you had two/three shows from the same producers in a short period of time trying to come up with ideas.
Going back to TOS and TNG, you see that, generally, the best shows were the ones that were about something, that served as metaphor for themes our nation was grappling with at the time the series aired.
TOS, being a creature of the 60s, mined real world events such as the cold war and the civil rights movement.
TNG, being a creature of the 90s, mined real world events such rampant technology, environmentalism and homosexuality.
Because the two series were so far apart, the passage of time allowed each to have a unique voice that later sequels, churned out one right after the other were denied.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
TNG, being a creature of the 90s, mined real world events such rampant technology, environmentalism and homosexuality.
TNG said very little, if anything, about homosexuality. There were no gay characters in TNG.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
True, DSN is probably the one exception to that statement. However, by running DSN more or less concurrently with either TNG or Voyager, you had the one show that was trying to do something a little different being further diluted by the other shows (and vice versa) since you had two/three shows from the same producers in a short period of time trying to come up with ideas.
Going back to TOS and TNG, you see that, generally, the best shows were the ones that were about something, that served as metaphor for themes our nation was grappling with at the time the series aired.
TOS, being a creature of the 60s, mined real world events such as the cold war and the civil rights movement.
TNG, being a creature of the 90s, mined real world events such rampant technology, environmentalism and homosexuality.
Because the two series were so far apart, the passage of time allowed each to have a unique voice that later sequels, churned out one right after the other were denied.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
TNG, being a creature of the 90s, mined real world events such rampant technology, environmentalism and homosexuality.
TNG said very little, if anything, about homosexuality. There were no gay characters in TNG.
You are correct, Jim, though, as in an earlier thread, I pointed out that " The Outcast", from season 5 of Star Trek : TNG was a metaphor for being gay and how it affects one's life.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Quote:
thedoctor said:
The Borg were the homosexuals. Going around, trying to convert everyone to their ways.
Them and their gay-rays.
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Quote:
thedoctor said:
The Borg were the homosexuals. Going around, trying to convert everyone to their ways.
I always believed the Borg was more of an amalgram for the bulk of our society, and how, in spite of society considering itself unique and fresh, it is actually a collective mind in itself : " Wear these clothes, listen to this music, talk like us, behave as we do, be like us or suffer the stigma of being ostracized."
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
You are correct, Jim, though, as in an earlier thread, I pointed out that " The Outcast", from season 5 of Star Trek : TNG was a metaphor for being gay and how it affects one's life.
It was a weak metaphor.
And one episode with a weak metaphor is not enough to make the assertion that TNG had much of anything to say about homosexuality.
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Quote:
Wednesday said:
Quote:
thedoctor said:
The Borg were the homosexuals. Going around, trying to convert everyone to their ways.
Them and their gay-rays.
And what'd they do on First Contact when they took over the Enterprise?
They redecorated it!
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
You are correct, Jim, though, as in an earlier thread, I pointed out that " The Outcast", from season 5 of Star Trek : TNG was a metaphor for being gay and how it affects one's life.
It was a weak metaphor.
I do not feel that way about the metaphor. It was much better than ignoring the issue entirely....
Well, what I really wanted to see would NEVER ever happen in Star Trek.....have Worf and Riker in a relationship..... So, I do what I have done for many years now..use my own imagination.....It really would be fantastic if someday...there was a top rated Trek show with two gay male characters.
Worf : " Commander..I must warn you.....Klingon sex ..is very rough compared to human sex."
Riker : " Bring it on, Lieutenant!"
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Quote:
thedoctor said:
And what'd they do on First Contact when they took over the Enterprise?
They redecorated it!
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Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
I do not feel that way about the metaphor. It was much better than ignoring the issue entirely....
Well, what I really wanted to see would NEVER ever happen in Star Trek.....have Worf and Riker in a relationship..... So, I do what I have done for many years now..use my own imagination.....It really would be fantastic if someday...there was a top rated Trek show with two gay male characters.
Worf : " Commander..I must warn you.....Klingon sex ..is very rough compared to human sex."
Riker : " Bring it on, Lieutenant!"
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
TNG said very little, if anything, about homosexuality. There were no gay characters in TNG.
The beauty of Trek was that it normally did things subtly and with metaphor.
The episodes about the Trill/Dax were often metaphors for homosexuality.
Similarly, in TOS, the classic stories about civil rights weren't starring African Americans, they were about aliens, the classic example being the ep with Frank Gorshin.
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You know who was gay?
Sulu.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
TNG said very little, if anything, about homosexuality. There were no gay characters in TNG.
The beauty of Trek was that it normally did things subtly and with metaphor.
The episodes about the Trill/Dax were often metaphors for homosexuality.
Similarly, in TOS, the classic stories about civil rights weren't starring African Americans, they were about aliens, the classic example being the ep with Frank Gorshin.
I find the eps about Dax and the Trills to be more comments on "what is gender?" than on homosexuality.
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Quote:
Wednesday said:
You know who was gay?
Sulu.
No, Sulu was not gay.
George Takei is gay. That Sulu was never shown having any romantic interest does not make him gay.
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Whatever. I saw how he looked at me.
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Back on topic, Jim's right, one weak allusion does not a theme make.
But that doesn't mean TNG wasn't a product of its time. In many ways it was, and DS9 even moreso.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
TNG said very little, if anything, about homosexuality. There were no gay characters in TNG.
The beauty of Trek was that it normally did things subtly and with metaphor.
The episodes about the Trill/Dax were often metaphors for homosexuality.
Similarly, in TOS, the classic stories about civil rights weren't starring African Americans, they were about aliens, the classic example being the ep with Frank Gorshin.
I was 11 years old when that Frank Gorshin TOS episode first aired..and I got the message....looking back, it was a great metaphor for prejudice, in an era when it was not quite time to totally discuss prejudice on TV.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Quote:
Wednesday said:
Back on topic, Jim's right, one weak allusion does not a theme make.
Quote:
But that doesn't mean TNG wasn't a product of its time. In many ways it was, and DS9 even moreso.
I understand that. It's not that I find the lack of gay characters or substantive gay themes bases on which to criticize TNG. It was great stuff. But TV still wasn't ready for an openly gay character or blatant gay themes. I'm cool with that.
But if TREK ever reappears, the lack of a gay main character will indeed be grounds for me to take it to task and believe me, I will.
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Maybe they eliminated the gene for homosexuality in the future...perhaps during the eugenics wars involving Kahn.
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Quote:
Wednesday said:
Back on topic, Jim's right, one weak allusion does not a theme make.
Quote:
But that doesn't mean TNG wasn't a product of its time. In many ways it was, and DS9 even moreso.
I understand that. It's not that I find the lack of gay characters or substantive gay themes bases on which to criticize TNG. It was great stuff. But TV still wasn't ready for an openly gay character or blatant gay themes. I'm cool with that.
But if TREK ever reappears, the lack of a gay main character will indeed be grounds for me to take it to task and believe me, I will.
As long as that gay main character isn't a flaming queen like the guys in " Queer Eye For The Straight Guy." I would want the general public to see that not all gay men are fem.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Maybe they eliminated the gene for homosexuality in the future...perhaps during the eugenics wars involving Kahn.
That's a fairly assinine remark. I'll just view it as you being silly and give it no more credence.
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Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Quote:
Wednesday said:
Back on topic, Jim's right, one weak allusion does not a theme make.
Quote:
But that doesn't mean TNG wasn't a product of its time. In many ways it was, and DS9 even moreso.
I understand that. It's not that I find the lack of gay characters or substantive gay themes bases on which to criticize TNG. It was great stuff. But TV still wasn't ready for an openly gay character or blatant gay themes. I'm cool with that.
But if TREK ever reappears, the lack of a gay main character will indeed be grounds for me to take it to task and believe me, I will.
As long as that gay main character isn't a flaming queen like the guys in " Queer Eye For The Straight Guy." I would want the general public to see that not all gay men are fem.
Some gays are rough and virile cowboys. I think that Trek would be better served with a Brokeback-style gay guy then with Truman Capote in space.
Reveling in the knowledge that Sammitch will never interrupt my nookie ever again.
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Quote:
Killconey said:
Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Quote:
Wednesday said:
Back on topic, Jim's right, one weak allusion does not a theme make.
Quote:
But that doesn't mean TNG wasn't a product of its time. In many ways it was, and DS9 even moreso.
I understand that. It's not that I find the lack of gay characters or substantive gay themes bases on which to criticize TNG. It was great stuff. But TV still wasn't ready for an openly gay character or blatant gay themes. I'm cool with that.
But if TREK ever reappears, the lack of a gay main character will indeed be grounds for me to take it to task and believe me, I will.
As long as that gay main character isn't a flaming queen like the guys in " Queer Eye For The Straight Guy." I would want the general public to see that not all gay men are fem.
Some gays are rough and virile cowboys. I think that Trek would be better served with a Brokeback-style gay guy then with Truman Capote in space.
Very true! I lived with a man for many years. He built the house we lived in himself. He was an able carpentar, brick layer, and very mechanically inclined. He was as comfortable repairing his car himself as he was cooking a three course meal for a dinner party of nine. He did not act or look gay, not in the slightest.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
Well, what I really wanted to see would NEVER ever happen in Star Trek.....have Worf and Riker in a relationship.....
Worf : " Commander..I must warn you.....Klingon sex ..is very rough compared to human sex."
Riker : " Bring it on, Lieutenant!"
I noticed how you took the two most heterosexual, testosterone characters of that show to make a couple. I'm not laughing at you for it. But...fuck...knowing the character like we do, that really strikes me as hilarious... 
I think it was obvious TNG had a main gay character for about four years.......Wesley Crusher, anyone? Scared of girls, super-smart, perfectly groomed hair....come on! Get the picture!
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Quote:
Prometheus said:
I think it was obvious TNG had a main gay character for about four years.......Wesley Crusher, anyone? Scared of girls, super-smart, perfectly groomed hair....come on! Get the picture!
He dated Ashley Judd in the ep, THE GAME.
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I walk in eternity 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 19,633 |
Quote:
Prometheus said:
Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
Well, what I really wanted to see would NEVER ever happen in Star Trek.....have Worf and Riker in a relationship.....
Worf : " Commander..I must warn you.....Klingon sex ..is very rough compared to human sex."
Riker : " Bring it on, Lieutenant!"
I noticed how you took the two most heterosexual, testosterone characters of that show to make a couple. I'm not laughing at you for it. But...fuck...knowing the character like we do, that really strikes me as hilarious...
I think it was obvious TNG had a main gay character for about four years.......Wesley Crusher, anyone? Scared of girls, super-smart, perfectly groomed hair....come on! Get the picture!
Yeah! I always thought Wesley's hair was TOO perfect for a straight guy!
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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