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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman_II:_The_Richard_Donner_CutAlong with the massive box set they're releasing for the Superman films this fall, they also gave Donner some money to re-edit his footage (which was mostly cut and reshot by Lester) to give the closest thing possible to his version of Superman II. Either way, this article is an interesting read and this DVD would be pretty neat, practically a brand new Reeve film.
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Quote:
Several television stations have broadcast extended cuts over the years. These have largely featured additional Donner material including footage of Superman destroying the Fortress of Solitude at the conclusion of the film, as well as scenes between Lois and Superman.
That's always confused the hell out of me. I remember seeing the scene with Superman destroying the Fortress of Solitude when I was younger off HBO or something, but that scene seemed to always be missing in later viewings. Good to know I wasn't imagineing it.
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Quote:
ZOD said:
Part two lost something as far as I was concerned...the film became a more ordinary experience...unlike the first part which had been extraordinary.
Quote:
restorationist Michael Thau said:
With Dick it’s always, 'Make it move faster.'"
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what is the basic plot of the donner version? or is it roughly the same as what appeared, minus the changes mentioned in wikipedia
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Yep. Donner set up the whole Zod & company stuff in the first one. His story was the whole Phantom Zone criminals conquer Earth while Supes is off living his human fantasy with Lois, and Lex Luthor conspires with Zod to eliminate Superman. Pretty much it's the details that were changed.
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meh. then the "donner cut" sounds like more hype and build up than anything else.
even if its better (which it almost certainly is, according to the reports) how much better could it actually be? just more detailed? making it a 10% more enjoyable flick?
i was kinda hoping there'd be entirely new plots or subplots or something. or maybe the removal of superman's crazy powers (like his symbol turning into a ... net... or... something)
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Quote:
Rob Kamphausen said:
meh. then the "donner cut" sounds like more hype and build up than anything else.
even if its better (which it almost certainly is, according to the reports) how much better could it actually be? just more detailed? making it a 10% more enjoyable flick?
i was kinda hoping there'd be entirely new plots or subplots or something. or maybe the removal of superman's crazy powers (like his symbol turning into a ... net... or... something)
well Superman II was 70% or so Lester and the rest Donner. While this recut is 25% Lester and 75% Donner. So its quite a bit of new footage. Even if its the same exact movie plot just with differently shot scenes, its still different and "new." At least worth a viewing.
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IGN interviewed Donner about this a couple months ago, they went over all the changes in this version. I can't find the interview but I think that wikipedia entry covered most of it.
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
well Superman II was 70% or so Lester and the rest Donner. While this recut is 25% Lester and 75% Donner. So its quite a bit of new footage. Even if its the same exact movie plot just with differently shot scenes, its still different and "new." At least worth a viewing.
true, true. i'll certainly watch it, there's no question.
but i was thinking (hoping) "new movie," and not "new angles"
its like 75% 'new' footage, but if its like a 10% difference from what i've seen (same general plot) then, to me, this seems more like a lucas star wars repackaging, or "ultimate hush" jim lee collection.
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Quote:
Rob Kamphausen said:
meh. then the "donner cut" sounds like more hype and build up than anything else.
even if its better (which it almost certainly is, according to the reports) how much better could it actually be? just more detailed? making it a 10% more enjoyable flick?
i was kinda hoping there'd be entirely new plots or subplots or something. or maybe the removal of superman's crazy powers (like his symbol turning into a ... net... or... something)
The tone of the film is going to change drastically. For a better understanding, compare Superman III to Superman: The Motion Picture. Donner's take is more of a dramatic look at the complexity of Superman with a little comedy thrown in while Lester is more of a slapstick and sight-gag comic who uses Superman and his powers as the means for a joke. The approach to the characters and situations are going to make it a different viewing experience.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Quote:
Rob Kamphausen said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
well Superman II was 70% or so Lester and the rest Donner. While this recut is 25% Lester and 75% Donner. So its quite a bit of new footage. Even if its the same exact movie plot just with differently shot scenes, its still different and "new." At least worth a viewing.
true, true. i'll certainly watch it, there's no question.
but i was thinking (hoping) "new movie," and not "new angles"
its like 75% 'new' footage, but if its like a 10% difference from what i've seen (same general plot) then, to me, this seems more like a lucas star wars repackaging, or "ultimate hush" jim lee collection.
more like the difference between back to the future and back to the future 2 where some of the footage is cut in from the original.
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this is pretty good. lots of unseen footage and much darker tone than the lester version.
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I agree.
The scenes with Lois and Clark/Superman were more believable in terms of pure emotion. The touchy feely writers of Smallville should see this. They might learn something, and we might see their women act like women.
But the ending made me do this.. 
I used to roam the world fighting monsters and sleeping in mud. Now look at me, living in a castle, sleeping in a bed. Aren't I sweet? Yuck!
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I bought it, I'll pop it in tomorrow night.
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Quote:
Hyrule's Handsome Hero, Link said:
I agree.
The scenes with Lois and Clark/Superman were more believable in terms of pure emotion. The touchy feely writers of Smallville should see this. They might learn something, and we might see their women act like women.
suckin dick and making sammitches?
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Quote:
Hyrule's Handsome Hero, Link said:
I agree.
The scenes with Lois and Clark/Superman were more believable in terms of pure emotion. The touchy feely writers of Smallville should see this. They might learn something, and we might see their women act like women.
But the ending made me do this..
Lois and Clark is my favorite Superman show.
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According to my craziest comic book friend, Donner's cut is "like a whole different movie." Whether that means what it really says, or something closer to what Rob expects, I dunno. I don't even remember the original, so I'll watch that before I watch Donner's cut.
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All the goofy stuff is cut out...more cool scenes, the Zod Crew destroy more stuff, more white house shenanigans,..no hypnotic kiss, no stupid celophane "S" being thrown, no guy talking on a phone while being blown down the street, no Paris, etc...
The way in which lois finds out about clark is also better...
The way the phantom zone cracks is also better and is in context to the first film...
He goes back in time again at the end...
All in all even with the well done test footage being used at the Niagra Falls scene this version is muuuuch better and makes more sense. Bravo to Donner's assistant guy...
It also makes Superman Returns make more sense--because "the son becomes the father the father becomes the son" kryptonian prophecy is played up in the donner cut and makes Returns more fluid to follow... i now like Superman Returns better because of this version of II.
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I liked the new version, but not better (or worse) then the non-Donner Superman II. Some of the scene transitions in the new version were choppy, and some of the scenes themselves were too screen test-y. The way Lois finds out Clark is Superman (with the gun) was humorous, but the old version had more emotion. Using the spin around the world again?  But it's so much better than the super-kiss. Thank God the stupid extra powers weren't in Donner's cut. The laser finger, vanishing Superman act, and cellophane S were gay. I liked the lost Brando footage, including Clark's conversation while Lois looked on. The new version's "redemption" scene was more believable, but lacked some of the emotion of the old version ("FATHER!!!"). The beginning recap of the old version was better to sit through. And no Lois in Paris? I liked that scene! I also liked Lois throwing herself in the river while in Niagra Falls. But really, Donner's cut is like a different movie and really does help Superman Returns make more sense...except for how the fortress comes back.
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I saw the Donner Cut today. The ending makes no sense, but all of his scenes with Lois and Clark are far superior to the original version. I'd rather see a version that combines the best of Donner's scenes with the existing movie. Minus the extra powers, of course. But with that movie's ending as opposed to this one, which makes no sense.
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how does it make no sense? how does it end?
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The original ending to movie 1 was meant to not happen as such, and i think the lois death was added at the last minute. The going back in time ending for 2 was the way in which II was supposed to end-not 1. He doesn't actually turn earth backwards but is the only way the special effects guys could figure out to show him going back in time and fixing things.
I hope that clears things up.
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I am only willing to suspend my belief so much, Piggie. A copout is a copout.
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I should probably clarify. SPOILERS!He goes back to the diner to beat up a guy who now didn't beat him up in the first place. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And taking world back in time to solve the problem of Lois knowing he's Superman is a copout. And how can she be pregnant and have a kid for Superman Returns if she now didn't sleep with Superman? Makes no sense. Just my opinion, of course. Feel free to disagree.
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Quote:
Pig Iron said:
He doesn't actually turn earth backwards but is the only way the special effects guys could figure out to show him going back in time and fixing things.
I hope that clears things up.
"Precisely, old chum!"
(At least as far as S1 is concerned, as far as S2Donner:
Quote:
Brad Lee said:
He goes back to the diner to beat up a guy who now didn't beat him up in the first place. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And taking world back in time to solve the problem of Lois knowing he's Superman is a copout. And how can she be pregnant and have a kid for Superman Returns if she now didn't sleep with Superman? Makes no sense.
The scene beating the guy up in the diner never worked in either version, in my opinion. It was too out of character for Superman. So that for me is a wash.
As far as the other point, let's face it: Singer was bound and determined to put "Super Son" in a movie so he could make his heavy handed, self referential, message about adoption no matter what.
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Quote:
Brad Lee said:
And how can she be pregnant and have a kid for Superman Returns if she now didn't sleep with Superman? Makes no sense. Just my opinion, of course. Feel free to disagree.
Are you trying to lay blame on Donner for something in a movie that came out over 20 years after he'd worked on his? 
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Not at all, Doc. I'm just having a good laugh here. It's up to Singer to provide the back story for the child, as that special moment must have happened after Superman II, but before Superman left for his five year journey. For the sake of solid story telling, I'd like Singer to write something into his next movie about how close Superman and Lois really were before he left without saying goodbye. I got the impression from seeing Returns that there was something between them not implied in the previous films.
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Singer made Superman a gay man.
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I thought he made him a stalker?
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Quote:
Brad Lee said:
Not at all, Doc. I'm just having a good laugh here.
It's up to Singer to provide the back story for the child, as that special moment must have happened after Superman II, but before Superman left for his five year journey. For the sake of solid story telling, I'd like Singer to write something into his next movie about how close Superman and Lois really were before he left without saying goodbye. I got the impression from seeing Returns that there was something between them not implied in the previous films.
But didn't Singer state point blank that he considered his film a direct sequel to the Donner cut of S2?
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Who fucking cares? SII rocks. SII Donner Cut is even better! And, Superman Returns kicks all ass...
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Yet the Kryptonian prophecy about the father becoming the son makes no sense unless you see the donner cut of II...that was very important in the returns movie....
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Brad Lee said:
Not at all, Doc. I'm just having a good laugh here.
It's up to Singer to provide the back story for the child, as that special moment must have happened after Superman II, but before Superman left for his five year journey. For the sake of solid story telling, I'd like Singer to write something into his next movie about how close Superman and Lois really were before he left without saying goodbye. I got the impression from seeing Returns that there was something between them not implied in the previous films.
But didn't Singer state point blank that he considered his film a direct sequel to the Donner cut of S2?
I think Singer's using selective continuity. Right, Pro?
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Quote:
thedoctor said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Brad Lee said:
Not at all, Doc. I'm just having a good laugh here.
It's up to Singer to provide the back story for the child, as that special moment must have happened after Superman II, but before Superman left for his five year journey. For the sake of solid story telling, I'd like Singer to write something into his next movie about how close Superman and Lois really were before he left without saying goodbye. I got the impression from seeing Returns that there was something between them not implied in the previous films.
But didn't Singer state point blank that he considered his film a direct sequel to the Donner cut of S2?
I think Singer's using selective continuity. Right, Pro?
That might explain Pro's deep abiding man love for Bryan Singer.
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Yes, that's right. I want to fuck Bryan Singer. In his ass. Hard. Because, if you make good movies, then, you deserved to be sodomized...
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Given that Singer's as gay as Jim, Klinton and Rob combined I'm sure he appreciates that sentiment, Pro.
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