You're not going to make me dig up your posts about Hillary and the Iowa newspaper endorsements are you?
Feel free to do whatever you want G-man. I suspect whatever you quote from me will be laden with .... &....plus some... so it fits in with how you twisted what I said. Let's keep in mind this is what you just said,
Originally Posted By: the G-man
... I wonder how MEM feels about this, given he seems to think endorsements are very important in deciding primary races?
That's a really broad view of endorsements & I think when you review my posts on the Des Moines Register's endorsement you'll notice I'm not generalizing that as applying to all endorsements.
Actually, MEM, you are correct solely insofar as I could have more clearly stated that I was referring to what seemed to be your opinion of newspaper endorsements and not all endorsements.
I would respectfully submit, however, that my reference to Obama receiving a newspaper endorsement did provide sufficient context so that you could have understood what sort of endorsement to which I was referring.
Actually, MEM, you are correct solely insofar as I could have more clearly stated that I was referring to what seemed to be your opinion of newspaper endorsements and not all endorsements.
I would respectfully submit, however, that my reference to Obama receiving a newspaper endorsement did provide sufficient context so that you could have understood what sort of endorsement to which I was referring.
Even narrowing it down to just newspaper endorsements, it was still clear that I wasn't saying all of them were important.
That you only believe endorsements count when the endorsement favor Hillary, of course.
Oh you were being serious? So I take it your backing off your original claim that I think all endorsements (or just newspapers in particular) are very important? Since you clearly exagerated I just assumed this was your theme for the evening.
For a breathe of fresh air, heres what I really think. Some endorsements do help a candidate. For Obama, Oprah's did & the Cullinary Union's endorsement while being touted as being important by the media wasn't so much help. Then again perhaps his loss in Nevada would have been even bigger than 6% if he hadn't had them. Much the same thing could be said of the Des Moines Registers endorsement for Hillary.
All kidding aside, MEM, I think most people have, at one point or another, a tendency to view things that seem to help "our" candidates as more important than things that don't, even to the point of rationalization. It's important, however, to not let ourselves to give in to self delusion.
I agree with you that some endorsements (for example, the Oprah endorsement of Obama) are more important that others. Where we differ is that I think all newspaper endorsements are sort of pointless and you seem to think at least some are valuable (concidentally it seems to be the ones that favor your candidate).
All kidding aside, MEM, I think most people have, at one point or another, a tendency to view things that seem to help "our" candidates as more important than things that don't, even to the point of rationalization. It's important, however, to not let ourselves to give in to self delusion.
I agree with you that some endorsements (for example, the Oprah endorsement of Obama) are more important that others. Where we differ is that I think all newspaper endorsements are sort of pointless and you seem to think at least some are valuable (concidentally it seems to be the ones that favor your candidate).
G-man you do reallize the Des Moines Registers endorsement was one that Obama, Edwards & Clinton all competed for because they valued it & that it was a national story much like Obama's endorsement by the Cullinary Union? It wasn't something I just picked out because it was pro-Hillary.
I was sort of struck by the glib dismissal of the Des Moines Register myself.
It's considered a BIG endorsement on account of the importance of Iowa itself to the primary elections.
If pretty much every talking head on TV thought it was a big deal and every candidate thinks it's a big deal, why would someone assert just the opposite?
It goes beyond the talking heads on TV or the press. It's part of every ones campaign. It's fucking common knowledge that the Register is a BIG endorsement.
jeez. You bend over backwards every time to try to save face.
Well, this is unfortunate. Obama won South Carolina. Unfortunate because he really isn't the best candidate. All you need to know about Obama was displayed in the last Dem debate where he was stumbling all over himself to explain his vote for the credit card industry. It was frankly amateurish, disingenuous, and pitiful. Even Hillary is a better choice than him.
By DAVID ESPO and CHARLES BABINGTON, Associated Press Writers 1 minute ago
COLUMBIA, S.C. - Barack Obama routed Hillary Rodham Clinton in the racially charged South Carolina primary Saturday night, regaining campaign momentum in the prelude to a Feb. 5 coast-to-coast competition for more than 1,600 Democratic National Convention delegates.
"The choice in this election is not about regions or religions or genders," Obama said in remarks prepared for a victory rally. "It's not about rich versus poor, young versus old and it's not about black versus white. It's about the past versus the future."
The audience chanted "Race doesn't matter" as it awaited Obama to make his appearance.
But it did.
About half the voters were black, according to polling place interviews, and four out of five of them supported Obama. Black women turned out in particularly large numbers. Obama, the first-term Illinois senator, got a quarter of the white vote while Clinton and Edwards split the rest.
Former Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina was running third, a sharp setback in the state where he was born and scored a primary victory in his first presidential campaign four years ago. Even so, aides said he would remain in the race.
The victory was Obama's first since he won the kickoff Iowa caucuses on Jan. 3. Clinton, a New York senator and former first lady, scored an upset in the New Hampshire primary a few days later. They split the Nevada caucuses, she winning the turnout race, he gaining a one-delegate margin. In an historic race, she hopes to become the first woman to occupy the White House, and Obama is the strongest black contender in history.
The South Carolina primary marked the end of the first phase of the campaign for the Democratic nomination, a series of single-state contests that winnowed the field, conferred co-front-runner status on Clinton and Obama but had relatively few delegates at stake.
That all changes in 10 days' time, when New York, Illinois and California are among the 15 states holding primaries in a virtual nationwide primary. Another seven states and American Samoa will hold Democratic caucuses on the same day.
Obama took a thinly veiled swipe at Clinton in his prepared remarks.
"We are up against conventional thinking that says your ability to lead as president comes from longevity in Washington or proximity to the White House. But we know that real leadership is about candor, and judgment, and the ability to rally Americans from all walks of life around a common purpose — a higher purpose."
Looking ahead to Feb. 5, he added that "nearly half the nation will have the chance to join us in saying that we are tired of business-as-usual in Washington, we are hungry for change, and we are ready to believe again."
Clinton issued a statement saying she had called Obama to congratulate him on his victory. She quickly turned her focus to the primaries ahead. "For those who have lost their job or their home or their health care, I will focus on the solutions needed to move this country forward," she said.
Returns from 86 percent of the state's precincts showed Obama winning 54 percent in the three-way race, Clinton gaining 27 percent and Edwards at 19 percent.
Obama also gained at least 11 convention delegates and Clinton won at least six. Another 28 remained to be allocated on the basis of the results.
All three contenders campaigned in South Carolina on primary day, but only Obama and Edwards arranged to speak to supporters after the polls closed. Clinton decided to fly to Tennessee, one of the Feb. 5 states, leaving as the polls were closing.
After playing a muted role in the earlier contests, the issue of race dominated an incendiary week that included a shift in strategy for Obama, a remarkably bitter debate and fresh scrutiny of former President Clinton's role in his wife's campaign.
Each side accused the other of playing the race card, sparking a controversy that frequently involved Bill Clinton.
"They are getting votes, to be sure, because of their race or gender. That's why people tell me Hillary doesn't have a chance of winning here," the former president said at one stop as he campaigned for his wife, strongly suggesting that blacks would not support a white alternative to Obama.
Clinton campaign strategists denied any intentional effort to stir the racial debate. But they said they believe the fallout has had the effect of branding Obama as "the black candidate," a tag that could hurt him outside the South.
Nearly six in 10 voters said the former president's efforts for his wife was important to their choice, and among them, slightly more favored Obama than the former first lady.
Overall, Obama defeated Clinton among both men and women.
The exit polls showed the economy was the most important issue in the race. About one quarter picked health care. And only one in five said it was the war in Iraq, underscoring the extent to which the once-dominant issue has faded in the face of financial concerns.
The exit poll was conducted by Edison Media Research and Mitofsky International for The Associated Press and the networks.
Clinton and Obama swapped accusatory radio commercials earlier in the week.
The former first lady aired an ad saying Obama had once approved of Republican ideas. His camp responded quickly that Clinton "will say anything." First she, then he, pulled the commercials after a short run on the air.
Given the bickering, Edwards looked for an opening to reinvigorate a candidacy all but eclipsed by the historic campaign between Obama and Clinton. He went on the "Late Show with David Letterman" at midweek to say he wanted to represent the "grown-up wing of the Democratic party."
That was one night after a finger-wagging debate in which Obama told Clinton he was helping unemployed workers on the streets of Chicago when "you were a corporate lawyer sitting on the board at Wal-Mart."
Moments later, the former first lady said she was fighting against misguided Republican policies "when you were practicing law and representing your contributor ... in his slum landlord business in inner city Chicago."
Look at the post times whomod. We posted almost simultaneously. But, hey, if being about ten seconds faster than me with news from the Democrat party is that important to you, savor your victory.
Obama is speaking to a very happy crowd of supporters right now. An anchor just pointed out that Obama's 270,000 votes is almost as large as all 290,000 people who turned out in the Democratic 2004 primary.
A federal judge sent accused Illinois political fixer Antoin "Tony" Rezko to jail today after federal prosecutors accused him of violating his bail terms by a convoluted series of financial transactions with Mideast banks.
Rezko has become an "Achilles heel" for Illinois Sen. Barack Obama after disclosures he and people associated with him had raised almost $200,000 for Obama and that Obama sought Rezko's "help and advice" in the purchase of a new home.
In a court hearing in Chicago, prosecutors detailed a $3.5 million wire transfer from a bank in Beirut, Lebanon that they said was moved through a series of accounts until it reached Rezko or some of his relatives who had posted property for his bond.
Under the terms of his agreement, prosecutors said in a filing with the court, Rezko was obligated to disclose any change in his financial status.
In court, prosecutors said Rezko had become a "flight risk" because of his secretive transactions in the Mideast.
According to the court filings, the money came from a company, General Mediterranean, owned by a British-based Iraqi billionaire, Nadhmi Auchi, who was convicted in France on fraud charges.
The filing says when Auchi was unable to obtain a visa to visit the United States in 2005, Rezko intervened and "asked certain Illinois government officials" to appeal the State Department's ruling.
The officials who Rezko approached are not specified. Sen. Obama had just taken office as a U.S. senator in 2005, the same year he sought Rezko's help in the purchase of his home.
The senator has said he was unable to afford both the home and an empty lot next to it which were effectively being sold as a package. Rezko's wife ultimately bought the empty lot, closing the same day as Obama did on his home.
ABC News This wouldn't hurt to many candidates except most of Obama's appeal is that he's going to be different I have to wonder. So far so good it seems but it's a story that isn't going to go away anytime soon.
I would hope you would agree G-man that photo isn't even close to the 17 yr relationship Obama has had with "slumlord Rezco". Presidents sign photos for friends, this looks like one of those quicky photos that the Clintons had taken with thousands of people.
As someone who has been in politics, and been to fundraisers with state and national figures, I know for a fact that you don't get a picture like that (posed in front of a neutral background, with the flag) with any major political figure, let alone two, unless you donate a very, very, large sum of money to that figure or their party.
So, clearly, Rezco is not just an "Obama backer" as you noted. He is, or was, a "Clinton backer."
Beyond the unsigned picture there isn't anything else though connecting them. Rezko did contribute to the DNC though. However with Obama there is a 17 yr relationship of Rezko helping out Obama. He even helped Obama buy a home. They were friends & neighbors. Again I think you would have to agree with me that there isn't a comparison.
i think it'd kind of funny if they just showed his brothers being shot and said "Ted Kennedy, best known for having his brothers murdered by liberal commie Lee Oswald and Muslim guy Sirhan Sirhan endorsed B. Hussein Obama."
Perhaps in your mind G-man but it wasn't my intent. I just noticed that yesterday Ted was being treated much differently then he usually is. The WP didn't have just one article about how important Kennedy's endorsement was but several just in case a reader didn't get it the first time. The man is hardly perfect & while endorsement was nice news for Obama it's being treated as a decisive endorsement. We'll see about that.
The man is hardly perfect & while endorsement was nice news for Obama it's being treated as a decisive endorsement. We'll see about that.
I don't know how decisive if will or won't be but I did hear an interesting take on it this afternoon. The commentator opined that Kennedy's endorsement, coming from perhaps the best known democrat outside of Bill and Hillary alive today, may be seen as (and this is me paraphrasing) permission for the rest of the Democrat mainstream to sign on to Obama against Hillary.
I don't know if that will be the case but it was an interesting take.
As someone who has been in politics, and been to fundraisers with state and national figures, I know for a fact that you don't get a picture like that (posed in front of a neutral background, with the flag) with any major political figure, let alone two, unless you donate a very, very, large sum of money to that figure or their party.
So, clearly, Rezco is not just an "Obama backer" as you noted. He is, or was, a "Clinton backer."
More often I feel like Obama gets a free pass and the heat goes more toward Hillary's past and remarks. In this case, the free pass was given to Hillary.
As someone who has been in politics, and been to fundraisers with state and national figures, I know for a fact that you don't get a picture like that (posed in front of a neutral background, with the flag) with any major political figure, let alone two, unless you donate a very, very, large sum of money to that figure or their party.
So, clearly, Rezco is not just an "Obama backer" as you noted. He is, or was, a "Clinton backer." (actually not true, Rezko contributed to the party but not to any Clinton campaign-MEM)
More often I feel like Obama gets a free pass and the heat goes more toward Hillary's past and remarks. In this case, the free pass was given to Hillary.
Hillary may not have the high ground but that didn't prevent her from giving Obama's pedestal a good kick He really isn't any better than the rest of them when you look at his relationship with Rezko. Who knows what else will come out before now & November?
Last edited by Matter-eater Man; 2008-01-2911:27 PM.
Wow. MEM finally came out and admitted that Democrats are no better than Republicans when it comes to corruption. This Obama thing really does have him rattled.
by MEM, of all people. 
He really isn't any better than the rest of them when you look at his relationship with Rezko. Who knows what else will come out before now & November?