Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy


Or similar inconsistencies in John McCain: embracing many W.Bush-republican political stances he previously reviled, such as tax cuts, pundits of the religious right, NAFTA, and many other issues that alienated him in 2000, that he has now embraced to reach a wider base in 2008.[/b]


Yes. I've repeatedly discussed this. Even as G-Man keeps trying to make it a flip-flop issue on my part rather than the candidate flip-flopping himself.

 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
Or for that matter, the paradoxes, panderings, evasions, exaggerations and outright lies of Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and every presidential contender before them. [/b]


When someone is outright dishonest I'll say so. when someone is being attacked unfairly I'll defend them. Kerry's war heroism being twisted beyond all recognition and semblance of reality was something so vile and despicable that I still shake my head at. That he ran a crap camapign that allowed it to go on unanswered is something that I thought deserved attack as well. It showed a lack of directness and backbone that is needed in responding to todays political climate.

Al Gore said he invented the Internet is an outright lie that i still challenge. Attacks on his personal lifestyle in relation to his environmentalism, while I don't agree with them, are fair game I suppose. To me it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to carry out a schedule as demanding as his while riding a bicycle to remain 'pure' to his critics is unrealistic I think, but there you are.

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The level at which you vindictively and personally snipe at Hillary is just obnoxious, and I don't see why you single her out for special treatment, even as you've said previously that if Obama were not the nominee, you'd vote for her as your second choice over any Republican nominee.


Part of the reason I post all the polls, in addition to showing that her great advantage,simply isn't there, is to show that I'm not alone in being disgusted by Hillary Clinton and Bill as of late. This is a general feeling among a lot of Democrats and is not just limited to Obama supporters. To have gone thru 2 elections with the kind of slime machine used against Gore and Kerry, only to see it incorporated by Clinton is not just dispiriting but abhorrent and something to be shunned. To compound it with not just exaggeration, but outright deception over and over and over again is just too much for any reasonable person to sit idly by and see these 2 people as pretty much equals.

You may see Obama as a liar as well but honestly, the only people who see controversy and deception there are the very people actively trying to dig it out of innuendo. If that wasn't so, you'd see it being the stuff of daily political fodder in mainstream circles and not just among the usual suspects in the right wing media (and the Clinton campaign sadly enough).

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What you say about Hillary really makes no sense. I see no superior integrity in Obama, who you've all but nominated for being the 2nd Coming. Or in McCain who you've panned to a lesser degree, while focusing your venom on trashing Hillary.


As I said, I'd vote for Hillary because frankly I see nothing good coming out of 4 more wars. Which is what it essentially boils down to with McCain. McCain for the most part has run a respectable campaign. What I've addressed with him is his campaign finance shenanigans and his seeming confusion over basic foreign policy facts. Which I hope you agree, isn't in the realm of unfairness. I'm not delving in innuendo, just quotes and mainstream news stories. If I've ever gone into questionable territory with McCain is in regards to his age which I'm sure as the election progresses, will become a bigger issue just as it was briefly with Reagan. And I'm sure as the election progresses, those very flip-flops to appeal to the GOP base are going to be brought up as he I'm sure flips back into "Maverick" mode. I think one has to be upfront on who you are, whether it was a NAFTA supporter or immigrants rights person. What you're all about shouldn't change with the crowd you're trying to get to vote for you.


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I didn't just criticize Obama, I criticized all three candidates, and said that the current crop of presidential contenders are really not really that different from those running in the last 20 years or so.


In all honesty, I didn't read your post the 1st time. Why? Because it's always soemthing overly long filled with 'Obama is a Muslim sympathizer' and a black supremacist racist etc.etc. with little to no actual fact, just distorted opinion from the usual right wing suspects. So now i read most of it and answered in kind. I like to think I single out Hillary here in this thread because it's a thread devoted to Hillary. Nothing more,nothing less.

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But you partisanly defend Obama. And you vilify Hillary in a bitterly personal way, while partisanly saying you'd still vote for her on kneejerk reflex over any Republican contender.



I like to think that Hillary reaps what she sows. And she plays hardball to the nth degree.

which is still better than 4 more wars.