i think why most americans would have voted for Powell is he apparently isnt a racist, but Obama is obviously one, and that will come back to haunt them in the fall...
so wondy your whole point is that we shouldn't elect this black man because doing so would support the idea that he had to fight against a system that didn't want to elect a black man? and we're sticking with calling him a "racist" because he said his grandmother was a "typical white woman" in between comments about how much he loved her and how she raised him? meanwhile we have a retarded guy in the white house surrounded by the legion of doom outcasts and you have no problem with that because you have had a few harsh words for a few of his actions that you saw as playing in to the liberal conspiracy?
and Colin Powell never was a serious contender for the presidency. Just because polls said people liked him is not the same as him running a campaign and winning. Hell Rudy and Thompson were doing great in the polls until they actually ran campaigns and I remember Powell saying since the early 90's that he wouldn't run for president because his wife didn't want him to.
Originally Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man
and we're sticking with calling him a "racist" because he said his grandmother was a "typical white woman" in between comments about how much he loved her and how she raised him?
he also called all middle class small town people racists in his "bitter" speech. if he has that view of small town people how can he govern them?
plus you conveniently forgot he attended a church that spewed racism for 20 years, if a white guy attended klan rallies for 20 years and was running for presidency you wouldnt have an issue with this? of course you would, but you think this guy is different because he's promises it was a misunderstanding. gullible you are.
Last edited by britneyspearsatemyshorts; 2008-04-192:09 PM.
he also called all middle class small town people racists in his "bitter" speech. if he has that view of small town people how can he govern them?
no, he talked about people in hard times turning to fear and xenophobia. and he expressed frustration at that, not contempt for those people.
Quote:
plus you conveniently forgot he attended a church that spewed racism for 20 years, if a white guy attended klan rallies for 20 years and was running for presidency you wouldnt have an issue with this? of course you would, but you think this guy is different because he's promises it was a misunderstanding. gullible you are.
attending a "black" church where the guy gives speeches against the problems in the country is not the same as attending a klan rally, unless there is some quote where rev. wright encouraged lynching and harrassment of whites. expressing rage over feeling like you're a second class citizen is not racism. i'm also sure there is more to rev. wright than that anger. and there is nothing i have seen from him that sounds even a tenth as bad as pat robertson or jerry fallwell.
Originally Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man
Originally Posted By: britneyspearsatemyshorts
he also called all middle class small town people racists in his "bitter" speech. if he has that view of small town people how can he govern them?
no, he talked about people in hard times turning to fear and xenophobia. and he expressed frustration at that, not contempt for those people.
Quote:
"And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations," Obama said.
get a dictionary look up "antipathy" ray, then get back to me when you understand what Barack said in his speech versus his coverup speech later.
but you already know what it means, and you know he went to a racist church. but your naive enough to believe his promises that he didnt really mean it, that he wasnt in church those days so it wont sway you anyways...
stick your head back in the sand where youre more comfortable...
i thought he was a muslim, bsams. at least that was what you were saying last week.
Quote:
"And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations," Obama said.
what exactly is wrong with this quote? can you honestly say that small communities don't develop antipathy towards outsiders? do you honestly think that there is no aspect of xenophobia in the recent anti-immigrant sentiment? the same type of anti-outsidersentiment that pops up during every hard time in the history of humanity? what exactly is the problem with what obama said? to me it sounds honest, more honest than anything i have heard from a politician in a long time. it's not a soundbyte trying to blow smoke up someone's ass, and it's not like the candid moments from bush where he sounds like a hick. obama expressed a very real and valid opinion, and it sounds more like frustration that this type of bitterness exists. quite frankly it sounds like he actually cares.
Originally Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man
attending a "black" church where the guy gives speeches against the problems in the country is not the same as attending a klan rally, unless there is some quote where rev. wright encouraged lynching and harrassment of whites. expressing rage over feeling like you're a second class citizen is not racism. i'm also sure there is more to rev. wright than that anger. and there is nothing i have seen from him that sounds even a tenth as bad as pat robertson or jerry fallwell.
So saying that it's the white government that put drugs in the black communities to keep them down isn't encouraging racial division? Entire sermons were devoted to increasing the social black/white divide. It's bullshit to say otherwise.
Originally Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man
what exactly is wrong with this quote? can you honestly say that small communities don't develop antipathy towards outsiders? do you honestly think that there is no aspect of xenophobia in the recent anti-immigrant sentiment? the same type of anti-outsidersentiment that pops up during every hard time in the history of humanity? what exactly is the problem with what obama said? to me it sounds honest, more honest than anything i have heard from a politician in a long time. it's not a soundbyte trying to blow smoke up someone's ass, and it's not like the candid moments from bush where he sounds like a hick. obama expressed a very real and valid opinion, and it sounds more like frustration that this type of bitterness exists. quite frankly it sounds like he actually cares.
That's bullshit. It was just Obama trying to give some excuse why the little people that the Democrats say they're out to help won't vote for them without taking into consideration that the Democrat platform may not mesh with those people's lifestyles or beliefs. It's Obama and the Democrats who are bitter. People who 'hold on to their guns and religion' do so in the good times and bad. It's also a way to demonize those people as bigots when it concerns the immigration debate rather than looking at any other concerns that those people may have. In other words, Obama was marginalizing middle America because they won't vote for him.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet."
Oh no! Pennsylvanians are increasingly drinking the "Obama Kool-Aid" .
Wow. There's a lot of buzz about a huge rally in Philadelphia for Obama last night. HUGE:
Quote:
WITH JUST days to go before the Pennsylvania primary, Sen. Barack Obama last night appeared before thousands of roaring supporters in Independence Mall, and pledged to "declare independence" from Washington politics.
"In four days, you get the chance to help bring about the change that we need right now, Philadelphia," Obama said. "Here in the city and the state that gave birth to our democracy, we can declare our independence from the politics that has shut us out, let us down, and told us to settle."
In his first public Philadelphia appearance, Obama stood on stage before the Independence Visitor Center, addressing a rapturous crowd of roughly 35,000 that stretched all the way to Independence Hall. His warm up acts included will.i.am, lead singer of the Black Eyed Peas.
That has to be one of the biggest political events ever during a primary. Imagine what the general election will be like.
Rooting around this morning, there is excellent first-hand coverage at a recommended post on DailyKos by Sphexus, with lots of pictures and video -- including video of a spontaneous march by thousands of Obama supporters through downtown Philadelphia after the event.
Hillary and by extension, the Republicans are swimming against the tide of chnge and yes "bitterness" with the status quo. You can't stop the change. Don't fear it, embrace it!
Originally Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man
i thought he was a muslim, bsams. at least that was what you were saying last week.
Quote:
"And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations," Obama said.
what exactly is wrong with this quote? can you honestly say that small communities don't develop antipathy towards outsiders? do you honestly think that there is no aspect of xenophobia in the recent anti-immigrant sentiment? the same type of anti-outsidersentiment that pops up during every hard time in the history of humanity? what exactly is the problem with what obama said? to me it sounds honest, more honest than anything i have heard from a politician in a long time. it's not a soundbyte trying to blow smoke up someone's ass, and it's not like the candid moments from bush where he sounds like a hick. obama expressed a very real and valid opinion, and it sounds more like frustration that this type of bitterness exists. quite frankly it sounds like he actually cares.
it's not a real or valid opinion. he cant keep accusing the world of racism like Rev. Wright has taught him. i live in a town of about 1200, there are many towns in the county i live in that are as small if not smaller, most if not all are very welcoming. in fact i cant think of any small towns here in Ohio and Pennsylvania that are anything but welcoming to outsiders.
the small town that Obama is painting is very different than reality. but what would he know? he spent 20 years listening to a man rant that white people hate the black man. Obama has no practical experience just the garbage his Black KKK church spews.
look at you, youve only seen sound bites and now you believe it too...
So saying that it's the white government that put drugs in the black communities to keep them down isn't encouraging racial division? Entire sermons were devoted to increasing the social black/white divide. It's bullshit to say otherwise.
increasing the social divide? no. i don't think he had that kind of power. i think he did what any other preacher working on a sermon would do. he looked around the world, saw something that upset him, and wrote a speech about it which he delivered to his gathering at church. it's just yet another social commentary. do i care that he said god damn america when talking about racial issues? no. because blacks have been seriously fucked over in this country and i get the anger. unlike pat robertson or jerry fallwell he didn't (to my knowledge) advocate murder or blame a terrorist attack on abortions.
Quote:
That's bullshit. It was just Obama trying to give some excuse why the little people that the Democrats say they're out to help won't vote for them without taking into consideration that the Democrat platform may not mesh with those people's lifestyles or beliefs. It's Obama and the Democrats who are bitter. People who 'hold on to their guns and religion' do so in the good times and bad. It's also a way to demonize those people as bigots when it concerns the immigration debate rather than looking at any other concerns that those people may have. In other words, Obama was marginalizing middle America because they won't vote for him.
so? he gave an excuse for something that disapointed him based on his own views of the situation. and he gave those views in private. what the fuck is the problem? he's human, he feels a certain way and expressed that to someone. just because he was tape recorded does not a scandal make. in fact, unlike hardline rightwingers, he at least put human feeling to the people that opposed him. he seemed to care and be frustrated that people weren't "getting it." but ultimately everyone who runs for office thinks they're onto something. are you really going to condemn obama for that?
Obama Fact: Children Of The Scorn Barack Obama did not always believe small town folk cling to guns and religion because they were bitter. His original theory? Small town folk were following the orders of a hidden monster in the corn field.
whomod content User I broke bsams sphincter 4000+ posts 04/19/08 06:07 PM Reading a post Forum: Politics and Current Events Thread: Barack Hussein Obama in '08?
almost 45 minutes? i think i broke him good this time....
An e-mail from a reader said that, while Hillary Clinton tells lies, Barack Obama is himself a lie. That is becoming painfully apparent with each new revelation of how drastically his carefully crafted image this election year contrasts with what he has actually been saying and doing for many years.
Senator Obama's election year image is that of a man who can bring the country together, overcoming differences of party or race, as well as solving our international problems by talking with Iran and other countries with which we are at odds, and performing other miscellaneous miracles as needed.
There is, of course, not a speck of evidence that Obama has ever transcended party differences in the United States Senate. Voting records analyzed by the National Journal show him to be the farthest left of anyone in the Senate. Nor has he sponsored any significant bipartisan legislation — nor any other significant legislation, for that matter.
Senator Obama is all talk — glib talk, exciting talk, confident talk, but still just talk.
Some of his recent talk in San Francisco has stirred up controversy because it revealed yet another blatant contradiction between Barack Obama's public image and his reality.
Speaking privately to supporters in heavily left-liberal San Francisco, Obama let down his hair and described working class people in Pennsylvania as so "bitter" that they "cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them."
Like so much that Obama has said and done over the years, this is standard stuff on the far left, where guns and religion are regarded as signs of psychological dysfunction — and where opinions different from those of the left are ascribed to emotions ("bitter" in this case), rather than to arguments that need to be answered.
Like so many others on the left, Obama rejects "stereotypes" when they are stereotypes he doesn't like but blithely throws around his own stereotypes about "a typical white person" or "bitter" gun-toting, religious and racist working class people.
In politics, the clearer a statement is, the more certain it is to be followed by a "clarification," when people react adversely to what was plainly said.
Obama and his supporters were still busy "clarifying" Jeremiah Wright's very plain statements when it suddenly became necessary to "clarify" Senator Obama's own statements in San Francisco.
People who have been cheering whistle-blowers for years have suddenly denounced the person who blew the whistle on what Obama said in private that is so contradictory to what he has been saying in public.
However inconsistent Obama's words, his behavior has been remarkably consistent over the years. He has sought out and joined with the radical, anti-Western left, whether Jeremiah Wright, William Ayers of the terrorist Weatherman underground or pro-Palestinian and anti-Israeli Rashid Khalidi.
Obama is also part of a long tradition on the left of being for the working class in the abstract, or as people potentially useful for the purposes of the left, but having disdain or contempt for them as human beings.
Karl Marx said, "The working class is revolutionary or it is nothing." In other words, they mattered only in so far as they were willing to carry out the Marxist agenda.
Fabian socialist George Bernard Shaw included the working class among the "detestable" people who "have no right to live." He added: "I should despair if I did not know that they will all die presently, and that there is no need on earth why they should be replaced by people like themselves."
Similar statements on the left go back as far as Rousseau in the 18th century and come forward into our own times.
It is understandable that young people are so strongly attracted to Obama. Youth is another name for inexperience — and experience is what is most needed when dealing with skillful and charismatic demagogues.
Those of us old enough to have seen the type again and again over the years can no longer find them exciting. Instead, they are as tedious as they are dangerous.
Originally Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man
Originally Posted By: thedoctor
So saying that it's the white government that put drugs in the black communities to keep them down isn't encouraging racial division? Entire sermons were devoted to increasing the social black/white divide. It's bullshit to say otherwise.
increasing the social divide? no. i don't think he had that kind of power. i think he did what any other preacher working on a sermon would do. he looked around the world, saw something that upset him, and wrote a speech about it which he delivered to his gathering at church. it's just yet another social commentary. do i care that he said god damn america when talking about racial issues? no. because blacks have been seriously fucked over in this country and i get the anger. unlike pat robertson or jerry fallwell he didn't (to my knowledge) advocate murder or blame a terrorist attack on abortions.
I don't know. Maybe it's because I'm still a little drunk, or maybe it's because you're full of shit; but I find that to be a total cop out.
How can Rev. Wright saying that the white government is responsible for drugs and AIDS in the black community anything but dividing his mostly black congregation from the white community? All he did was point his finger and call names. You're full of shit if you just let that pass.
Originally Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man
so? he gave an excuse for something that disapointed him based on his own views of the situation. and he gave those views in private. what the fuck is the problem? he's human, he feels a certain way and expressed that to someone. just because he was tape recorded does not a scandal make. in fact, unlike hardline rightwingers, he at least put human feeling to the people that opposed him. he seemed to care and be frustrated that people weren't "getting it." but ultimately everyone who runs for office thinks they're onto something. are you really going to condemn obama for that?
Would you condemn David Duke for saying that the Jews were corrupting the voting process because they weren't supporting the 'white rule' of America? Obama said utter bullshit to support the fact that he couldn't get a certain group's votes. Should I condemn him for that? Fuck yes. He was condemning the group that I'm a part of. Why should I vote for a guy who talks bad about the people I can most associate myself with? He doesn't understand me or my needs. Why should I give him my loyalty? He's not going to do jack shit for me. In the end, isn't that why we vote for politicians?
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet."
By Mark Z. Barabak, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer April 19, 2008
Former Labor Secretary Robert Reich on Friday became the fifth former Clinton Cabinet member to endorse Barack Obama, saying that loyalty to his old friends the Clintons had been overwhelmed by unhappiness with the tone of Hillary Rodham Clinton's presidential campaign.
"I did not plan to endorse. I wanted to stay out of the whole endorsement racket. But my conscience wouldn't let me stay silent after this latest round of mudslinging," Reich, a UC Berkeley professor of public policy, said in a telephone interview from his campus office.
INDEPENDENCE HALL: Sen. Barack Obama addresses a crowd of 35,000, the largest of his campaign, in Philadelphia.
"When millions of Americans are losing their homes and jobs, when the economy is facing its worst crisis in 60 years, when the Iraq war is still causing chaos in the Middle East, to focus on whether Obama should have used the word 'bitter' when he talked about the plight of many in Pennsylvania, and to resurrect the old Republican themes of guns and religion, and to call Obama 'elitist' . . . just put me over the edge."
A spokesman for Bill Clinton, who first met Reich when the two were sailing to England in 1968 as Rhodes scholars, said the former president had no comment. A spokesman for Hillary Clinton, who attended Yale Law School with her husband-to-be and Reich in the early 1970s, dismissed the endorsement.
"He made clear his choice some time ago, so this isn't any surprise," said Mo Elleithee.
Reich had previously laced into the Clintons on his blog, including postings titled "Will HRC Spoil the Party?" (yes, he suggested, by staying in the race too long); "Why Is HRC Stooping So Low" (which criticized her "stridency and inaccuracy" in discussing Social Security); and "Bill Clinton's Old Politics" (which criticized his "ill-tempered and ill-founded attacks" on Obama).
Still, Reich's written endorsement -- which offered only positive reasons for his decision -- drew wide coverage after being posted on his blog ( http://www.robertreich.blogspot.com ). It also underscored one of the difficulties that Clinton faces as she struggles to overtake Sen. Obama of Illinois, who leads the Democratic contest in pledged delegates and the popular vote with just a few major primaries remaining. The more aggressive her tack, polls suggest, the higher she drives her own negative standing with voters.
"She's in a box," said Democratic strategist Joe Trippi, who has stayed neutral since his candidate, former Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina, quit the race. "The more she does the thing she has to do, the more people don't like her."
Others suggested that Reich's endorsement was significant for the signal it would send to the 300 or so unpledged superdelegates, the party leaders who are likely to decide the Democratic nomination. Reich is not a superdelegate.
Even so, "what it says to superdelegates is loyalty only goes so far. You have to make your decision based on what you think is best for the party," said Bruce Cain, a UC Berkeley political scientist. "If people like Richardson and now Reich can step out of the Clinton orbit, then it gets easier for fellow superdelegates who are bound by reasons of loyalty to also do so."
New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, who dropped out of the Democratic race, served as Energy secretary and as ambassador to the United Nations in the Clinton administration.
Along with Reich and Richardson -- who is a superdelegate, by virtue of his office -- the others who served in the Clinton Cabinet and now support Obama are former Commerce Secretary William M. Daley; former Commerce Secretary Norman Y. Mineta; and Federico Pena, who held two posts under Clinton, Transportation secretary and Energy secretary.
Reich left the administration at the end of Clinton's first term and wrote a book that expressed both affection for the president and disappointment with some of his policies, which Reich considered too accommodating of Republicans.
On Friday he carefully weighed his words. Like Richardson, who discussed his Obama endorsement in an interview last week, Reich said he had felt "very torn, frankly," because of residual loyalty to the Clintons. Initially, he considered it "unnecessary and inappropriate to endorse Obama."
After changing his mind over the last few days -- "I just had enough" -- Reich tried calling the couple Thursday but was unsuccessful. It has been about a year since he last spoke with Hillary Clinton, Reich said, and even longer since he last talked to her husband.
He gave no advance notice of his endorsement to the Obama campaign and professed no interest in a Cabinet position should Obama win in November. "Been there, done that," Reich said. "Nobody will ever get me to leave the Bay Area, regardless of what is offered."
Obama picked up two other endorsements Friday, from former Sens. David Boren of Oklahoma and Sam Nunn of Georgia. Clinton won the backing of a superdelegate, Rep. Betty Sutton of Ohio.
Clinton leads among superdelegates, 257 to 231, but Obama leads in the overall delegate count, 1,645 to 1,507, according to the Associated Press. It takes 2,025 delegates to win the nomination.
They campaigned across Pennsylvania on Friday, ahead of their next big test in Tuesday's primary.
Clinton appeared at a midday rally at Radnor High School, in a wealthy suburb in eastern Pennsylvania, where she scoffed at suggestions that the questioning in Wednesday night's debate was too tough.
"I'm with Harry Truman on this: If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen," Clinton said. "Just speaking for myself, I am very comfortable in the kitchen."
Obama appeared at a town-hall meeting in Erie and at Philadelphia's Independence Hall.
So much for the kitchen sink. Apparently, throwing them at Obama only adds fuel to his momentum.
And bsams, that wily obama sure can fool a lit of influential people. And wow, 35,000 Pennsylvanians both black and white must really be seething enough to take to the streets after Obama called them "bitter" and the words of his racist pastor were revealed. The races are now at each others throats in those Pennsylvanian streets all on account of Obama's hidden racism!! AAAIIEEE!!!!!
Or you're just full of shit and you'll wear Reverend Wright around your neck from now till the election like a baby clinging to his security blanket.
Bill Ayers, the former member of the anti-Vietnam War group the Weathermen, was unknown to most Americans until week when ABC moderator George Stephanopoulos pressed Barack Obama about his association with the retired revolutionary.
his infamous remarks that appeared in the New York Times on September 11, 2001, in which he said about the 25 bombings that his group carried out against the Vietnam War: "I don't regret setting bombs; I feel we didn't do enough."
Mr. Ayers, now a professor of education at the University of Illinois, says that when it comes to "anything I did to oppose the war in Viet Nam... I say 'No, I don't regret anything I did to try to stop the slaughter of millions of human beings by my own government.'"
All of this raises continued questions about why Mr. Obama refuses to discuss his relationship with Mr. Ayers, even though his campaign recently described them as "friendly." Bloomberg News reports the two men have crossed paths repeatedly starting in 1995, when Mr. Ayers held an organizing meeting for Mr. Obama's candidacy for the state legislature in his home and personally introduced him to friends.
In 1997, Mr. Obama cited Mr. Ayers' work on criminal justice in a Chicago Tribune article on what prominent Chicagoans were reading. For a year after the infamous comments in the New York Times, Mr. Obama served with Mr. Ayers on the board of the Woods Fund of Chicago.
No one suggests that Mr. Obama has ever endorsed any of the actions of the Weathermen, which occurred when he was still a child. But to this day he won't discuss how he came to know him, why he chose to associate with Mr. Ayers and what he thinks of his current opinions about the U.S. government. All that will continue to fuel questions about Mr. Obama's associations – just as his continued relationship with the Rev. Jeremiah Wright has.
Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) stoked debate over a ’60s radical’s ties to Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) on ABC’s “This Week” on Sunday, saying Obama’s defense “borders on the outrageous.” ADVERTISEMENT
William Ayers — a former member of the Weather Underground, which embraced bombing in its effort to end the Vietnam War — became an issue in the Democratic nominating race at last week’s debate. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) said Obama’s past meetings with Ayers are part of a “larger set of concerns about how we are going to run against John McCain.”
Asked by host George Stephanopoulos whether he has any doubt that Obama shares his sense of patriotism, McCain brought the subject up.
“I'm sure he's very patriotic. But his relationship with Mr. Ayers is open to question,” McCain said.
“He became friends with him and spent time with him while the guy was unrepentant over his activities as a member of a terrorist organization, the Weathermen,” McCain said. “Does he condemn them? Would he condemn someone who says they're unrepentant and wished that they had bombed more?”
Counting down the minutes until whomod dredges up some obscure figure who once said something nice about McCain, even though they (unlike Obama and Ayers and/or Wright) aren't close friends and then tries to claim it's the same thing starting...now....
how about Mccain was against Jerry Fallwell and his hateful rhetoric for years until he wanted an endorsement. that's the best i got off the top of my head.
