Well, after weeks of not hearing from her, I basically said to myself, "Self, to hell with her! And if by chance you should see her again, well, you don't care!"

So guess who shows up at karaoke tonight.

She said that a couple of days after I saw her last, she had to go to New York because her soon-to-be-ex-husband is apparrently dicking her over on the child support. I don't know if I believe her or not. I want to, and I understand what with her son, a job, and a pending divorce that I'm certainly not a top priority, but FUCK! In a month, she couldn't check e-mail or give me a call?!?

She's said she'd call me today, and if she does, then I'm just gonna unload, tell her how I feel about her, and find out how she feels about me.

Is it me? Am I over-thinking things?

Snarf, I wish I'd seen this topic sooner.

My experience is, if it didn't work before, then the likelihood is it won't work now. People do change sometimes, but not often.
And if she didn't appreciate how you felt about her before, then you're actually better off without her. And someone better will drift into your life, and make you feel complete, instead of like an unappreciated guy who's being jerked around.

I'm between relationships right now myself.
( I actually ended my last relationship in February. She was very beautiful, but increasingly smothering, jealous, and demanding of my time. Actually, neither of us were happy, and I was going to take her out to dinner for Valentine's Day, and treat her really nice, and then politely end it as friends a few days after the fact. But a few days before Valentines Day, she showed up at my door with all the stuff I'd loaned her, and she broke it off before I had a chance to. So although she broke up with me, I was actually relieved, it saved me the trouble. Although it was a pretty lonely Valentines Day. It would have been better to end it on a more positive note, with a last pleasant Valentine's Day together. )

I've gone out on a few dates over the last few months, but no real sparks with any of the new women in my life.

But a great lesson I've learned over the years is: there's one thing that's worse than being alone, and that's being with the wrong woman.

Trust me when I say that whatever you feel for this girl, she's fool's gold. No matter how you feel about her, she doesn't appreciate you, and she'd ultimately make you miserable.
So hold out for a girl who appreciates you. She's out there, just keep smiling, have fun meanwhile, and be yourself. And when you least expect it, you'll meet the woman you've been waiting for.

If she ever does call you up, play it cool, be friendly and go out with her, give her a chance. But again, don't put too much expectation into it working out for the long term.
Just enjoy going out with her for one night, if it comes to that, and take it one day at a time.
And again, if it doesn't work out, it's for the best, and there's better waiting for you down the road. Don't beat yourself up over what might have been, just keep looking, keep approaching women, and you'll find someone you really click with. Whether it's her or someone else.

Thanks for the input, Dave. What you say makes sense, but I've waited so long for some kind of meanigful relationship, and I did really care about her, that now that she's back in my life, it's hard not to think of this as God's way of saying, "Here you go, you poor, dumb bastard."

It would be interesting to hear what some of the females here think of my predicament.

Whatever you do don't ask me.

Wonder Boy speaks of wisdom beyond his post count...

Y'know, I've come to realize that she'll never care about me the way I care about her. That's because I've realized that no woman is ever going to care about me PERIOD! I am going to fucking die alone! I can accept that I'll never be happy, but I am sick and fucking tired of feeling sad and dejected all the fucking time. I just want to be fucking numb. Fuckity fuck fuck fuck. Okay, done ranting.

Bibbo, your wisdom scares and confuses me -- what of us romantics who LIKE pining in our hearts, even if not out loud?

Life without drama is bad television...

Snarf, I was 27 when I had my first meaningful relationship (Maria) , where I loved her and she appreciated me and loved me back, and just totally rocked my world. At least in the moment.

But she'd come from Spain for a year, and had to go back. She kissed me, got on a plane, and went back to Spain. And after she left, she called me every day for a few minutes, from Spain, just to hear my voice, and constantly told me how much she missed me.

I was finishing school, and entertained the possibility that this might be the end of our relationship, that in a few months or a year she might meet someone else. But I really believed that she loved me, and when I finished school, she'd either come back or I'd go to Spain to marry her. We'd talked about marriage.

About three weeks after the day she left for Spain, I was at a night club for a birthday party for my friend Enri (also from Spain, the girl who introduced me to Maria), and two of her friends had just arrived from Spain. The first thing they told me, very gently and with great respect for my obvious feelings, was that Maria was already engaged to her former boyfriend of three years before we met, and they were due to be married in 6 months (on October 26, 1991).
I was devastated that she not only met someone else, but that she replaced me so quickly with someone else.

I have never been more devastated. She talked to me on the phone every day from Spain, and I also called her many of those times, to talk more and share the cost. We spoke every day, and yet she had so little regard for my feelings that she never bothered to break the news to me gently of her engagement to another guy, or to explain. I called her immediately when I got home. Although that call was rather unsatisfying, I didn't get any explanation, and it was clear she just wanted to get the call over with.

For years since, I've had this image in my head that she kissed me and got on the plane, she arrived in Madrid, and Nico (her fiance/husband) was there to pick her up, gave her a big kiss, proposed on the spot, and they were in bed together that night. And I was instantly forgotten.

I loved her so much that I rationalized her marrying another guy, incredible as that seems. That she just couldn't face me with it, that she was pressured into it by her family (their two families are close, and this guy's a very successful lawyer). I observed that she never made decisions by herself, that she needed someone to make decisions for her, and this was a case of that.
But I felt like she really loved me, and that sooner or later she'd realize she married the wrong guy, and she'd come back to me. This guy, as she described him to me during the time we dated, was very controlling, and she'd caught him cheating on her multiple times. She'd said while we were together that if she went back to Spain, that she'd never get back together with him.

And she encouraged this fantasy of mine, of us getting back together.

She called me at least once a month for two years, she encouraged me to write her and send her things she could remember me by. Only she asked me to send any letters and pictures to her parents' address. I really feel, in retrospect, like she was keeping me open as a second option, if the marriage didn't work out.

And it took two years, but I finally snapped out of my love-lorn trance.

The more I thought about it, the more I realized that even if she left the other guy, despite how much she might love me, I didn't want to be anyone's second choice.

And I'd never trust her the same way as I did before she left for Spain.

And I finally broke my self-programming, and realized she was toying with my emotions, and had for two years made it difficult for me to move on, regarding her as my girlfriend-in-exile. That she'd encouraged me to feel this way, to believe she still loved me, and it was just a matter of time till she left him and we were back together.

About the same time, she told me she was pregnant, and that just added to the snowball effect of my realization. Because in addition to the other baggage, it was clear that even if she divorced this other guy, it would never be just me and her. Through their shared child, this other guy would forever be in the picture.

And I did one of the hardest things I've ever done. The next time she called, I said:
"Look, you're married now, and I don't think you should call me anymore."
Very nonchalantly, she said "Okay..." Click.
She hung up the phone. And that was the last I ever spoke to her. That was April 1993.

And to be honest, not a day has gone by in the last 11 years that I haven't thought of her. But it's a memory of how great it was, while we were together and happy. With the slight sadness that it was later tainted by her complete lack of regard for me.

But again, the truth is, for her to behave as she did, I lost nothing. She never was the person I thought she was, and she would have ultimately made me unhappy.
In retrospect, I saw a lot of things I didn't allow myself to see before, that during our relationship, even in the good times, she was not a partner, she was a spoiled girl who wanted to be provided for, without giving back.
She was an object to be catered to, and ultimately, she didn't care about me, she just sold herself to the highest bidder.

I have tremendous respect for women. But there are times when it's healthy to snap out of your love-clouded illusions, stop trying so hard to see her point of view, and see a parasitic coldhearted bitch for what she truly is.

I've met a number of women since who have re-affirmed my faith in women. But man, regarding Maria, talk about misguided loyalties...

But there's better ones out there. I learned a valuable lesson, that I want a woman who's a partner, not a material girl who only cares about being provided for. And with a girl like that, as soon as times get rough, she'll be gone !

I'm sorry you went throught that Wonder Boy. Kind of sounds a little similar to what I went through with my ex-boyfriend.

My first, and only, boy-friend was when I was 26. We met 10 moths shy of his divorce being finalized for a year. Things went great, we talked marriage almost from the start, we loved each other, etc. But then one day, out of the blue, he broke up with me. No warning, nothing. In fact, just an hour or so before that, we were working on a premarital counceling work book together. I was severly depressed an upset for months. It wasn't until a year after the break-up that I finally started to really be my normal self again. I went out on "a test date" as my friend and I called it and it felt good. Now granted, that was the last date I went on and that was back in 2000, but I've always been like this. Prior to my ex, I only went out on 4 dates, over the course of 8 years with 4 different guys.

There's nothing wrong with being alone. I'll admit, in my early 20s I was at a point in my life that I wanted to go out on dates, have a boyfriend and so a big thing with me when I finally did have a boyfriend was that I wasn't sure I was any good at being in a relationship, never having been in one before. What I found is that I can make it in a relationship, even due to my lack of experience. The relationship had it not ended when it did, would have ultimatly ended some how. Whether by either of us before vows were exchanged, or in divorce. Looking back at it, even a year after the fact, there were red lights during the relationship, that I ignored, didn't bother to acknowledge. I thought he was the one, but now I know better. I grew so much after that relationship in so many ways.

But listen to Wonder Boy, he said it bed.

Happy 30th birthday snarf!

Kill yourself. Now.

Snarf must have been downing some serious chocolate milk when he typed that one...

http://snarf.urbanup.com/3992963