Anyone else reading this? I was hugely disapointed with all the Civil War bullshit and the direction they took the character in....and then at the end another cheap stunt (the shooting of Aunt May).
So now they are saying this 4 issue arc will change Spidey alot for the next few years presumably with the death of May or MJ (everyone feels it is MJ). If they kill MJ I will never read another Spiderman comic again. So part of me hopes they do so I can save some money but the other part hopes they don't go for the cheap parlor tricks that seem to be so overused lately. So far the first 2 issues have been average at best. The covers are really cool though. They remind me of the 80s.
According to LITG, One More Day is gonna end with Spidey having to choose between saving May or having his marriage to MJ retconned. He chooses May and as a result MJ doesn't even know his secret identity anymore.
They tried to kill her in #400, but it didn't take. I only read the Ultimate Spidey title these days, but I read somewhere that MJ and Pete were getting divorced. I take it TPTB decided to kill her off instead.
I don't vouch for its accuracy, but the big rumor is that "One More Day" will result in a Spiderman "reboot." They won't kill MJ, the rumor goes, only deage her and Peter to high school or college and split them up.
If you think about it, it's not that surprising that Marvel would be looking at rebooting some, or all, of its' characters. DC "had" to do it twenty years ago and they started publishing approximately twenty years before the Marvel age of comics.
I don't vouch for its accuracy, but the big rumor is that "One More Day" will result in a Spiderman "reboot." They won't kill MJ, the rumor goes, only deage her and Peter to high school or college and split them up.
If you think about it, it's not that surprising that Marvel would be looking at rebooting some, or all, of its' characters. DC "had" to do it twenty years ago and they started publishing approximately twenty years before the Marvel age of comics.
So, by that timeline, Marvel's due.
Thank God they can't reboot real people!
Who the hell would want to wake up one morning, only to find that your spouse is gone and that your kids no longer exist, and that you are back in High School again???
I don't vouch for its accuracy, but the big rumor is that "One More Day" will result in a Spiderman "reboot." They won't kill MJ, the rumor goes, only deage her and Peter to high school or college and split them up.
If you think about it, it's not that surprising that Marvel would be looking at rebooting some, or all, of its' characters. DC "had" to do it twenty years ago and they started publishing approximately twenty years before the Marvel age of comics.
So, by that timeline, Marvel's due.
Thank God they can't reboot real people!
Who the hell would want to wake up one morning, only to find that your spouse is gone and that your kids no longer exist, and that you are back in High School again???
Who the hell would want to wake up one morning, only to find that your spouse is gone and that your kids no longer exist, and that you are back in High School again???
Wasn't that the plot of "Peggy Sue Got Married"?
In any event, the rumors floating around seem to be that Peter agrees to this because it's the only way to save the lives of MJ and Aunt May. He has to give up his life with MJ to save both their lives. Great power...responsibility...yada....yada.
Also, I remember reading a column by Peter David once where he reported that Marvel has figures that show a large percentage of its' readership turns over every five years or so anyway. By Marvel's then-thinking, David said, undoing the marriage won't have long term negative effects, in that only a certain percentage of existing fans would be around to be pissed off for long. If that's the case, maybe Marvel believes that there pay off will be more readers who want a Spidey closer to the movies and the Ultimate book (single and young).
I'm not endorsing the rumored plot, simply reporting what Marvel's rumored logic seems to be.
All the stuff G-man is saying makes sense and seems to fit with what Marvel wants to do. But what will this mean for the rest of the Marvel U......they all know his secret identity from Civil War.
I wouldn't worry about the skrull theory. The internet is starting to blame Marvel for using the skrulls to explain everything from Cap's death to PJP's anal cyst, but all of it, every single thing, is just fan speculation. Let's wait for them to fuck up, then start bitching.
My money's on Loki. basically, in one guise or another, he offers to give him back Aunt May in exchange for his happiness. Peter agrees to it, Loki casts some spell, and Peter gets Aunt May back. But he's unmarriend and no one knows his secret identity...until the inevitable story where he tries to regain what he lost (once he remembers what he lost), with Thor making an appearance to help him.
pretty pointless changes to make when you already have Ult. Spider-Man who fills the young, unmarried, teenage hero role pretty nicely for them. It's the perfect situation of actually being able to eat your cake and have it, too.
but then this is Marvel, who will throw logic and even recent storylines out the window for the sake of worshipping at the altar of the "EVENT" comic.
You mean middle row, right side? Valkyrie from the Defenders.
Who? Jesus, other than Ultimate Spidey, I am completely out of the Marvel loop ... and I would assume that the blonde is Gwen, but then again it could be her daughter even though they both are s'posed to be "dead"...
An Asgardian goddess by birth, her real name is Brunnhilde. Among her other aliases are Barbara Denton-Norriss, Samantha Parrington and Sian Bowen who all were host bodies to the spirit of Brunnhilde. Her first appearance was in The Avengers v1 #83. For much of her history she was a mainstay of superhero team known as the Defenders. Samantha Parrington, a previous host to Brunnhilde, later received the Valkyrie powers herself and became a member of the Defenders as Valkyrie.
An Asgardian goddess by birth, her real name is Brunnhilde. Among her other aliases are Barbara Denton-Norriss, Samantha Parrington and Sian Bowen who all were host bodies to the spirit of Brunnhilde. Her first appearance was in The Avengers v1 #83. For much of her history she was a mainstay of superhero team known as the Defenders. Samantha Parrington, a previous host to Brunnhilde, later received the Valkyrie powers herself and became a member of the Defenders as Valkyrie.
No, honey, I meant the other blonde on the bottom right.
pretty pointless changes to make when you already have Ult. Spider-Man who fills the young, unmarried, teenage hero role pretty nicely for them. It's the perfect situation of actually being able to eat your cake and have it, too.
but then this is Marvel, who will throw logic and even recent storylines out the window for the sake of worshipping at the altar of the "EVENT" comic.
I agree 100%....now you'll have 2 titles basically exactly the same. They fucked up with Civl War revealing his identity.
They fucked up with Civl War revealing his identity.
Yeah. There are certain characters that really only work if they have a strong secret ID. Spidey is one of those. Half the fun of Spiderman since day one has been the need for him to balance his personal life/personal problems with his crime fighting career, without people knowing he's the same person.
If anything's necessitating a retcon or reboot, it's the events of Civil War.
They fucked up with Civl War revealing his identity.
Yeah. There are certain characters that really only work if they have a strong secret ID. Spidey is one of those. Half the fun of Spiderman since day one has been the need for him to balance his personal life/personal problems with his crime fighting career, without people knowing he's the same person.
If anything's necessitating a retcon or reboot, it's the events of Civil War.
Totally. They really didn't think that through at all.
Ezekiel was an aweshome character until they made him kind of a bad guy at the end of his "run".
I had no problem with him being evil. The idea of him being Spider-Man's opposite (yes I know we already have Venom for that role) made for a good story. However the climax of his "run" was just crap. JMS obviously couldn't come up with another way for Spidey to win. Instead we get Ezekiel's sudden and emotional change of heart. Lame. Powerful lame.
i think they should lessen the rule against the main superheroes killing. the ezekiel storyline was a case where spider-man killing ezekial in battle was the only logical ending. it would have tied the predatory spider aspects together and would have given them some good stories they could do for years. the superman/zod story from the 1990's was great. and this "superheroes don't kill ever, in fact they even have to perform cpr on the joker if someone else tries to kill him." just silly. obviously they can't be the punisher, but sometimes lethal force in stories is logical and justified. but they refuse to go through with it and still set up stories that require it.
I thought "Batman Begins" had the right balance, where he says to Ras "I won't kill you...but I don't have to save you..."
exactly. though saving the joker is just silly. and not going for a fatal blow to save a life is silly, and kind of immoral. after all the people joker has killed or terrorized, his ability to mass murder with little trouble, and his ability to always get out of jail or even kill from jail. and i do think superman should kill sometimes. with all those mountain-shattering punches it makes no sense that no one ever dies in a knockdown fight with him.
If heroes killed all their enemies, they'd have no one left to fight.
End of comics industry.
Not necessarily true.
Take a look at comic magazines' father, the pulp magazines. The Shadow killed villains, but some of them could escape and return, like Shiwan Khan. On the other hand, Doc Savage treated his foes with brain surgery, which was so successful that only one or two of his foes returned to crime. Yet, both titles lasted for more than a decade, and at least The Shadow was popular enough to 'survive' WWII and its paper shortage.
It ended this week. So Peter and MJ made a deal with Mephisto and they will both forget ever being married so May can live. Mephisto also gave Peter back his secret identity and neither he nor MJ will ever remember being married. It will help provide the writers with lots of new storylines love interests to write about but all in all it was stupid. May was an old lady. They were really gonna give up their future together 'cause of her....I doubt that. This was more the Donkey Fuckers doing realizing how badly they fucked up with Civil War and the identity revelation.
Harry Osborne is now alive again and Peter and MJ's baby never is born now.
I wonder what more got changed.....clone wars....ben reily.....my hairy ass.
I swore I'd never read it again after this but honestly Peter Parker is one of my favorite characters so I may give it a chance for awhile. But I like him and MJ together. They fucked up with this one.
According to LITG, One More Day is gonna end with Spidey having to choose between saving May or having his marriage to MJ retconned. He chooses May and as a result MJ doesn't even know his secret identity anymore.
Originally Posted By: The New Adventures of Old PJP
It ended this week. So Peter and MJ made a deal with Mephisto and they will both forget ever being married so May can live. Mephisto also gave Peter back his secret identity and neither he nor MJ will ever remember being married.
Harry Osborne is now alive again and Peter and MJ's baby never is born now.
Is it too much to hope for that May-be you're joking?
Originally Posted By: The New Adventures of Old PJP
I swore I'd never read it again after this but honestly Peter Parker is one of my favorite characters so I may give it a chance for awhile. But I like him and MJ together. They fucked up with this one.
Pssssssssst...Ultimate Spider-Man is everything you like about Spider-Man with none of the wankery.
JMS was pretty much the one who kept Pete and MJ together during his run. Quesada has wanted them apart since the first movie. I'm sure that Quesada insisted that the upcoming creative team be given a certain playing field with which to play.
I do think saving Aunt May is stupid. Not because I think she should have died 30 years ago, but because of the most recent issue of Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man. She let Peter know that she didn't want to go back and asked him explicitly to let her move on, save lives, be with MJ, and have kids. But hey, maybe that was just the writer's way of voicing his opinion on the storyline.
I checked it out and yeah...all bad. It can't stick, think of the effects on New Avengers, and so forth. My bet is alternate reality. MJ remembers what's up but can't tell Peter. Hilarity ensues.
This is why PJP should be admin. He just saved everyone here tons of cash on crappy spider-man comics.
Insert obligatory "Thank God for PJP" quote.
It's not even that original a premise. They did this in "The Flash" a few years ago, right after "Underworld Unleashed" (except Neron's plan backfired)
Did the people at Marvel have a flashback to this storyline?
Originally Posted By: The New Adventures of Old PJP
I swore I'd never read it again after this but honestly Peter Parker is one of my favorite characters so I may give it a chance for awhile. But I like him and MJ together. They fucked up with this one.
Pssssssssst...Ultimate Spider-Man is everything you like about Spider-Man with none of the wankery.
Originally Posted By: The New Adventures of Old PJP
It ended this week. So Peter and MJ made a deal with Mephisto and they will both forget ever being married so May can live. Mephisto also gave Peter back his secret identity and neither he nor MJ will ever remember being married. It will help provide the writers with lots of new storylines love interests to write about but all in all it was stupid. May was an old lady. They were really gonna give up their future together 'cause of her....I doubt that. This was more the Donkey Fuckers doing realizing how badly they fucked up with Civil War and the identity revelation.
Harry Osborne is now alive again and Peter and MJ's baby never is born now.
I wonder what more got changed.....clone wars....ben reily.....my hairy ass.
This is why PJP should be admin. He just saved everyone here tons of cash on crappy spider-man comics.
Insert obligatory "Thank God for PJP" quote.
It's not even that original a premise. They did this in "The Flash" a few years ago, right after "Underworld Unleashed" (except Neron's plan backfired)
no, UU was about a decade prior to Flash's little mental wipe.
Um...I was talking about "Hell To Pay," when Neron sends the dead Rogues' soulless bodies to Keystone City and has them cause death and destruction. They're also invincible unless the Flash bargains with Neron to give them their souls back in exchange for his love for Linda (and Linda is offered the same deal). They both accept to save thousands of lives, Neron pulls a double-cross, but Neron becomes infected by their love, making him all nicey-nice, and he begs Flash and Linda to take their love back. They blackmail Neron into undoing all the damage caused in exchange for their love back.
(It was Flash #127-129, to be exact.)
My reference to Neron should've been a Hell-pful hint.
I have to admit though, it is a ballsy move for Marvel to make. Especially in not killing May. So what, is she going to be immortal now? Does this mean Pete is living at home? Was he de-aged? If Harry is alive, who else is? I will check out Brand New Day to check out the new status quo, but I won't be buying it.
aunt may is ancient. she was really fucking old when peter got bitten, and by now she's about 10 years older than that. this would be like me sacrificing my marriage and future happiness so my great grandmother could kick around for a few more years before getting alzheimers and dying anyway. fucking ludicrous.
I've been sitting in front of the computer for about 30 minutes now, trying my best to come up with something. I have to tell you, I'm having a hard time. The only thing that keeps running through my head is One More Day. One More Day... the story so infuriating, it nearly brings tears to The Supernaut's eyes. The story that kind of makes me feel like it's time to stop reading the mainstream superhero titles altogether. Maybe just pick up trades or something from here on out.
But Savage Henry Lee already wrote about One More Day, and if I've got anything to add, I'll just do it in his comments section. And if you haven't read his thoughts on the subject, you probably should go ahead and do that right now...
Somebody once said "With great power comes great responsibility." I'm sure you've heard it. Not sure what part of that involves making deals with the devil.
But I digress. When I started writing this blog a little over a year ago, I thought I'd try to be the positive guy on the internet. The guy who says "Hey, if you don't like it, don't read it. There's plenty of good books on the shelves!" rather than the guy who says "Blech! I'm done with comics forever!" The guy who recommends good books, or looks for the silver lining, rather than being the guy who slams everything. Of course, that's tough to do when you have to read stories like One More Day... but I digress. With great power does come great responsibility, so I'll try to talk a bit about that. About the responsibility that writers have to characters.
Immediately after reading OMD in my local comic shop (yeah, I know it's not a library, but no way was I paying for that!), I phoned fellow blogger The Superfist to discuss. He brought up a very good point, and since I know he's not going to write about it, I'm going to go ahead and do it.
The Anatomy Lesson. That's how you do it. In Swamp Thing #21, Alan Moore took a failing title and completely reinvented it, revived it and it basically led to the creation of the whole freakin' Vertigo line.
Haven't read it? Here's the nutshell version: Up to that point in the series, Swamp Thing was a scientist who had been transformed into a shambling, muck-encrusted monster made of vegitation. Pretty much the whole point of his existance was attempting to return to his human form. Alan Moore took over and revealed that Swamp Thing was not, in fact, a former human. He had never been human - he was simply a shambling, muck-encrusted monster made of vegitation that thought it had been human. Big difference.
Now, here's where I get to the point. This big change, this story that turned the character of Swamp Thing on his ear by revealing that everything you ever knew about him was false... it didn't contradict anything that had been previously written. Sure, there had been a story or two where Swampy had briefly returned to human form through a magical spell or something like that, but that's easily explained - it was magic! My point is this: Moore recreated a character from the ground up, and he didn't have to rewrite history to do it. He didn't have to have Superboy punch a wall, he didn't have to make a deal with the devil and he didn't leave behind a million continuity errors. All those old Swamp Thing stories? They happened. All the villains and heroes he encountered? They remembered him.
There were no longtime fans left scratching their heads and feeling cheated or like they'd been lied to (well, maybe there were. I was a bit too young to be reading Swamp Thing at that point, though I remember the older kids on my bus absolutely loved it). No one felt like the character they'd loved had never existed, because he had existed. Only now he was different. Moore completely altered the character, but didn't have to change a thing to do it.
Now, I guess it's pretty clear that I'm not particularly fond of Joe Quesada's feeling that Spider-Man has to be single, and I'm even less fond of the way he went about it, but to some extent, I can understand his motivations (although, if people want to read about an unmarried Spidey, they could just read Ultimate Spider-Man... isn't that supposed to be the point of that book?). If Joey Q wants an unmarried Spidey, he gets an unmarried Spidey, and nothing I say will change it. And who knows? Maybe Spider-Man will be reinvigorated and Quesada will be proven right?
But are you seriously going to tell me they couldn't come up with a better way to do it than simply saying "It never happened" after the hero makes a deal with the devil? Couldn't they have come up with a story that doesn't contradict 20 years worth of continuity, not to mention throws a massive monkeywrench into their current storylines? Civil War is barely over, and now they're telling us that the most pivotol event in the story didn't even happen?!?!
But I digress... now I'm getting back into that territory I didn't want to venture into. The angry rant. The point of this post was to be positive. To remind people that it can be done. A good story can be told, and a character can be reinvented without trampling on the past.
And my point certainly wasn't to steal Savage Henry's thunder by writing about the same topic he just wrote about... so if you've got a comment regarding One More Day, please go over to his blog (right here on C2F), read it and leave yer messages there.
And if you haven't read Alan Moore's run on Swamp Thing, do yourself a favor and pick up the first trade. Or just go ahead and buy them all - after the first, I'm sure you'll be back for more. You can find 'em on Amazon, and you can usually find 'em for 1/2 off at comic cons. Trust me on this one.
And now that I'm done writing, I'm off to bed, to go to sleep next to my wife, whom I would not trade for anything, not even my mother or favorite aunt... which is another f***ed up can of oedipal worms that One More Day has unleashed. But I digress...
I'll admit, I don't regularly read Amazing Spider-Man. I haven't in a long time. And I followed this storyline only in the most casual way - if an issue was there for the flipping, I'd flip through it. I can honestly say, if I was on the fence about picking up Spider-Man after One More Day, that storyline killed any chance that I would. It was lazy, hack writing at its worst. I saw the devil's deal coming a mile off and knew who Peter's "guides" were immediately. I agree completely that there are better ways to do what Donkeyfucker wanted done which wouldn't have created the continuity problems that One More Day created. Most of all, it's one more insult to the collective intelligence of its fans and readers. Personally, it left a bad enough taste in my mouth that'll make dropping Marvel titles from my pull list a HELL of a lot easier (She-Hulk [a Skrull sidekick???], Mighty/New Avengers, Ultimate X-Men, and X-Factor...I'm looking squarely in your direction.). After all, if Donkeyfucker can pull this shit with the fans of one of the company's flagship titles, what would he do to the fans of the mid-line titles?
Originally Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man
she had a great death back in Amazing 400. they should've left it at that.
Agreed.
Like Joe, I haven't read the regular Spidey titles in bit, but I think someone here mentioned that now that they've done this one more day crap that they are getting rid of Ultimate Spidey. Can anyone confirm this? If they are it would totally suck. Ultimate Spidey is the only Marvel title I read anymore and if that goes, then its bye bye Marvel for me...
I have to admit that I am tempted to pick up Spidey now, just because of Dan Slott, whom I think is a good writer. But then I remember that it doesn't matter who writer a Marvel title these days because it will be so full of cross overs and editorial edicts that the book will ends up effectively written by committee.
Originally Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man
she had a great death back in Amazing 400. they should've left it at that.
Agreed.
Like Joe, I haven't read the regular Spidey titles in bit, but I think someone here mentioned that now that they've done this one more day crap that they are getting rid of Ultimate Spidey. Can anyone confirm this? If they are it would totally suck. Ultimate Spidey is the only Marvel title I read anymore and if that goes, then its bye bye Marvel for me...
ultimate titles are still selling. marvel isn't going to kill a cashcow when it's proven the ultimate and mainstream titles can coexist.
Originally Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man
Originally Posted By: harleykwin
Originally Posted By: Prometheus
Originally Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man
she had a great death back in Amazing 400. they should've left it at that.
Agreed.
Like Joe, I haven't read the regular Spidey titles in bit, but I think someone here mentioned that now that they've done this one more day crap that they are getting rid of Ultimate Spidey. Can anyone confirm this? If they are it would totally suck. Ultimate Spidey is the only Marvel title I read anymore and if that goes, then its bye bye Marvel for me...
ultimate titles are still selling. marvel isn't going to kill a cashcow when it's proven the ultimate and mainstream titles can coexist.
I would think so, but seeing that there is no difference now wouldn't that make the Ultimate title mainstream?
I have to admit that I am tempted to pick up Spidey now, just because of Dan Slott, whom I think is a good writer. But then I remember that it doesn't matter who writer a Marvel title these days because it will be so full of cross overs and editorial edicts that the book will ends up effectively written by committee.
I like Dan Slott too (his work on Avengers Initiative has been outstanding) but after I saw this-
I'm not sure Spidey will be his thing. Here's more-
There’s no doubt whatsoever that “One More Day” has been the most controversial Spider-Man story for fans in decades, dwarfing even the reaction to 2006’s unmasking at the end of Civil War #2.
As readers who’ve followed the story behind the story know, that controversy even extends to the story’s creators. On December 4th, “One More Day” writer J. Michael Straczynski posted a response to questions about his involvement with the story to rec.arts.comics.marvel.universe (which was archived at the JMSNews site).
Responding to questions about the quality of the story, and reconciling the story with JMS’ larger body of work, Straczynski wrote:
Speak of the devil and he shall appear....
For whatever it's worth, the situation is not as clear cut as one might hope. The reality of any writer working for any company, DC or Marvel or Image, is that when you're handed a franchise character, you're basically entrusted with something that the company owns, and the company has final say in what happens to that character, because as a writer, you're only there for a certain amount of time and then the next guy has to come in. Spider-Man belongs to Marvel, not to me, and at the end of the day, however much I may disagree with things, and however much I may make it very CLEAR to all parties that I disagree, I have to honor their position.
In the Gwen storyline, yes, I wanted it to be Peter's kids, Joe over-rode that, which is his right as EIC. I got the flack for that decision, but them's the breaks.
In the current storyline, there's a lot that I don't agree with, and I made this very clear to everybody within shouting distance at Marvel, especially Joe. I'll be honest: there was a point where I made the decision, and told Joe, that I was going to take my name off the last two issues of the OMD arc. Eventually Joe talked me out of that decision because at the end of the day, I don't want to sabotage Joe or Marvel, and I have a lot of respect for both of those. As an executive producer as well as a writer, I've sometimes had to insist that my writers make changes that they did not want to make, often loudly so. They were sure I was wrong. Mostly I was right. Sometimes I was wrong. But whoever sits in the editor's chair, or the executive producer's chair, wears the pointy hat of authority, and as Dave Sim once noted, you can't argue with a pointy hat.
So at the end of the day, all one can do is try to do the best one can with the notes one is given, and try to execute them in a professional way...because who knows, the other guy may be right. The only thing I *can* tell you, with absolute certainty, is that what Joe does with Spidey and all the rest of the Marvel characters, he does out of a genuine love of the character. He's not looking to sabotage anything, he's not looking to piss off the fans, he genuinely believes in the rightness of his views not out of a sense of "I'm the boss" but because he loves these characters and the Marvel universe.
And right or wrong, you have to respect that.
Straczynski’s message added gasoline to a smoldering fire of fan expectations and concerns about the ending to and ramifications of the story, and was interpreted in a variety of ways by readers.
In a series of interviews with Quesada about “One More Day,” Comic Book Resource’s Jonah Weiland asked the Marvel Editor-in-Chief about Straczynski’s posted comments, noting that, “In the end, we didn't publish the story he wanted to write.”
Quesada went on to explain that Straczynski’s original conclusion for “One More Day” wasn't what Quesada and Marvel were expecting and would have negatively affected the upcoming “Brand New Day” issues of Amazing Spider-Man, which were already underway.
Quesada also explained that he wasn’t comfortable with Straczynski’s method of retconning the marriage out of existence, saying: “Also, the science that Joe was going to apply to the retcon of the marriage would have made over 30 years of Spider-Man books worthless, because they never would have had happened. We would have also had a "Crisis" in the Marvel Universe because it would have reset way too many things outside of the Spider-Man titles. We just couldn't go there and in the end we weren't expecting that kind of story.
“I also think fans are misreading what Joe meant by disagreeing with the story. When we came up with the idea and methodology behind "One More Day," Joe was a part of the group that came up with the story. When we were done and felt we had it nailed, Joe told me that he was going to cycle off of Amazing Spider-Man and that he wanted to move on to other stuff. I told Joe that it was his call: He could close out his Amazing Spider-Man run however he wanted, or he could end it with the story we all created for "One More Day." He said he really wanted to write "One More Day." So Joe never said anything that indicated he disagreed with Peter and MJ's marriage being dissolved. If he had disagreed with the idea, he certainly would have told us and he certainly would not have asked to write the story. So like I said, I think people were reading into his on-line comments as opposed what I believe he was saying.”
Earlier in the week, Newsarama had contacted Straczynski to see if he would be willing to talk about “One More Day,” now that the storyline had concluded. He declined.
Yesterday, in part three of CBR’s interview with Quesada, the E-i-C further discussed the changes that were made to Straczynski’s original storyline, saying that when he, Axel Alonso and Tom Brevoort received the script for part four: “the script we had just received was not the one we were expecting, and the events that were being set forth in that issue were going to conflict with the work that was already being done on “Brand New Day.” I thought that perhaps Joe had forgotten some of the stuff discussed at the summit meetings and the subsequent e-mails and discussions that followed, but that didn’t seem to be the case; this was the story he wanted to tell. In his story, Mephisto was going to change continuity from as far back as issues #96-98 from 1971. In Joe’s story, Peter drops the dime on Harry, and that helps get him into rehab right away. Consequently, MJ stays with Harry, and Gwen never dies and never has her affair with Norman, etc., etc. And in the end, Peter and MJ are never married.”
To Quesada, that solution discounted every issue of Amazing Spider-Man since that 1971 story arc, and by doing that, would have caused far-reaching and unmanageable changes throughout the larger Marvel Universe. “In other words, there was just no way to tell Joe’s story without blowing up the entire Marvel U and every Spider-Man’s fan’s collection,” Quesada said.
“What we originally discussed with Joe and the group was much simpler and cleaner: The wedding? Something happened on the wedding day that prevented it from happening. The unsmasking? Mephisto makes people forget it; much like the Sentry, it happened -- it’s just no longer remembered. And Harry? Well, there’s always a price to pay when you make a deal with the devil. Is it a perfect solution? Absolutely not. Does it get us to where we want to be? Yes.”
Quesada ended his explanation of the changes made by publicly apologizing to Straczynski for having to change his original story.
Thursday morning, Newsarama received an unsolicited e-mail from Straczynski, in which, he wrote:
Having seen Joe's third interview on OMD, I think he raised a lot of fair issues. I think most of it represents accurately our conversations. It does, however, omit some of the main concerns I had with the resolution...concerns not mentioned therein, most probably as an oversight. As you know from my prior email, I was content not to respond to the prior interviews because I don't need to have the last word. (Newsarama Note: this last was in reference to Straczynski’s earlier e-mail mentioned earlier in which he declined a “One More Day” post mortem conversation.)
But there are some vital omissions in the interview, including the primary reason I finally threw up my hands on the book, which had mainly to do with how the resolution was handled.
To explain, here's the conversation I had with Marvel, in sum:
"So what does Mephisto do?" I ask.
"He makes everybody forget Peter's Spider-Man."
"Uh, huh. So Aunt May's still in the hospital --"
"No, he saves Aunt May."
"But if all he does is save her life and make everybody forget he's Spidey, she still has a scar on her midsection."
"No, he makes that go away too."
"Okay...:
"Then he wakes up in her house."
"The house that was burned down?"
"Right."
"But how --"
"Mephisto undoes that as well."
"Okay. And the guys who shot at Peter and May and were killed, they're alive too? Mephisto can bring guys back from the dead?"
"It's all part of the spell."
"And Doc Strange can't tell?"
"No,"
"And the newspaper articles? News footage?"
"Joe, it's been forgotten."
"I'm just asking is that stuff there or not there?"
"Not there. And Peter's web shooters are back."
"Is this the same spell or a different spell?"
"Same spell."
"How does making people forget he's Spidey bring back his web shooters?"
"It's magic, okay?"
"I see. And Harry's back."
"Right."
"And Mephisto does this too."
"Yep."
"So is Harry back from the dead, or has he been alive? If they ask him, hey Harry, what did you do last summer, will he remember? And the year before? And the year before? If he says they all went on a picnic two years ago, will they remember it?"
"It's --"
"Because if he now has a life he remembers, if he's not back from the dead, then you've changed the continuity you said you didn't want to change. Those are your only options: he was brought back from the dead, and there's a grave, and people remember him dying --"
"Mephisto changes THEIR memories too."
"-- or he's effectively been alive as far as our characters know, so he's been alive all along, so either way as far as our characters are concerned, continuity's been violated going back to 1971.
How do you explain that?"
"It's magic, we don't have to explain it."
And that's the part I had a real problem with, maybe the single biggest problem. There's this notion that magic fixes everything. It doesn't. "It's magic, we don't have to explain it." Well, actually, yes, you do. Magic has to have rules. And this is clearly not just a case of one spell making everybody forget he's Spidey...suddenly you're bringing back the dead, undoing wounds, erasing records, reinstating web shooters, on and on and on.
What I wanted to do was to make one small change to history, a tiny thing, whose ripples we could control to only touch what editorial wanted to touch, making changes we could explain logically. I worked for weeks to come up with a timeline that would leave every other bit of continuity in place. It was rigorous, and as logical as I could make it. In the end of OMD as published, Harry is alive and he's always been alive as far as the characters know...so how is that different than he was alive the whole time?
It made no sense to me.
Still doesn't. It's sloppy. It violates every rule of writing fiction of the fantastic that I and every other SF/Fantasy writer knows you can't violate. It's fantasy 101.
It troubled me that it's MJ and not Peter who is the one to actively make the decision.
I'd originally written the first issue of OMD to take place directly after May gets shot, and in fact turned in the first script directly after she gets nailed. Editorial decided to build in a block of issues for One More Day...meaning May would be in that bed for almost a *year* which I thought was just too long to make work.
And yes, I wanted to retcon the Gwen twins out of continuity, which was something I always assumed I could do at the end of my run. I wasn't allowed to do this, and yes, it pissed me off. I felt I was left holding the bag for something I wanted to get rid of, and taking the rap for a writing lapse that I had never committed. Why this aspect was not brought up in the other interview, you'd have to ask Joe.
Mainly, the book was rewritten in the editorial offices to a degree that the words weren't mine any longer, to a certain degree in three, and massively in four. If the work represents me, I leave the name there and take the rap; if it doesn't, then that's a different situation. There's just not much of my work there, especially once you get to the last dong of midnight...everything after that was written by editorial.
Whether my work is good or it sucks, it's mine. What came out of the end of OMD wasn't, hence my desire to omit the writing credit. Joe graciously offered to share it on the last issue. I think that helped. Credit where credit is due.
What I don't want is for this to turn into a public pissing match. Joe did what he did because he thought it was the right thing to do, and as EIC that's his call, not mine. I respect and admire him. I hope this will be the end of the matter.
I just felt that there were some important bits not addressed, that needed to be.
The dialogue is too Ult. Spider-man/Valley girl esque.
Seems very forced too
That is EXACTLY what I was thinking! The dialogue is the bland and cliched, as far as modern comics go. I mean, Bendis has absolutely raped the modern comic dialogue motif by introducing this dry, run-on nonsense that he pretends is reminiscent of real life "speaking". It makes me cringe to see other writers pick up this horrid fad of his...
Okay, yeah, the dialogue was the one thing that bothered me a bit too. As Pro pointed out, it's too "Bendish." On the other hand, a lot of people seem to like that kind of stuff so I wasn't sure if that was what Halo was referring to.
As far as JMS goes, I think he raises some very valid points. On the other hand, the guy that gave us Spider Totems, Peter eating someone's head and Gwen's rapidly aging bastard children (not to mention, I think, Aunt May in Iron Man armor) really has no right to bitch about wildly illogical plots in Spiderman books.
The dialogue is too Ult. Spider-man/Valley girl esque.
Seems very forced too
That is EXACTLY what I was thinking! The dialogue is the bland and cliched, as far as modern comics go. I mean, Bendis has absolutely raped the modern comic dialogue motif by introducing this dry, run-on nonsense that he pretends is reminiscent of real life "speaking". It makes me cringe to see other writers pick up this horrid fad of his...
Yeah.
It's kind of a shame cause his style worked well in Ult. Spider-man but ever since he's started writing both Avengrs books(which downright sucks) I can't stand it anymore. To the point I had to drop Ult Spider-man.
The dialogue is too Ult. Spider-man/Valley girl esque.
Seems very forced too
That is EXACTLY what I was thinking! The dialogue is the bland and cliched, as far as modern comics go. I mean, Bendis has absolutely raped the modern comic dialogue motif by introducing this dry, run-on nonsense that he pretends is reminiscent of real life "speaking". It makes me cringe to see other writers pick up this horrid fad of his...
I haven't read One More Day because I'm really not reading anything right now comic book wise. I refuse to pay $2.99 to read the shit that they've been foisting upon the public lately (and did they really charge an extra buck an issue just so you can read some reprinted story in the same book?). I knew that the unmasking wouldn't last despite what Donquefucker said. I knew he was trying to break-up the Peter/MJ marriage. I never realized that he'd do it in such a stupid and hackneyed way. He makes the superhero who's mantra for over forty years has been 'With great power comes great responsibility' make a pact with Satan?! And the reason is to keep Aunt May, who should have died at least fifteen years ago, stay alive with him giving up his extremely supportive and loving wife? You have to be seven shades of stupid to believe that any of that either makes sense of fits the characters at all. Why does Peter want Aunt May still around? So she can break her hip struggling to make it up the stairs? Or is it so that she can fall victim to another rampaging attack by one of his enemies? Nothing like a brittle boned old woman being snapped in half by the metallic grip of Doc Ock.
Joe, as Daredevil: Father proved, you can't write. Nor are you what people would refer to as an 'idea man' in the comic business. You drew some pretty pictures in your day and got the 'Stan Lee luck' by getting the Marvel EIC position. That's it. If you really wanted Spidey's marriage to be over with that badly, you should have just gone to JMS or, better yet, Peter David or Mark Millar or any of the people on your payroll who actually have writing talent and asked them to make the story for you. As much as I've seen and heard people say that they'll never by such and such a comic over the years for whatever reason, I've never heard it so often and loudly as I have since this thing hit the shelves. Hopefully, they'll all stick to it and give Marvel no other choice but to remove your fat, donkey molesting ass out of the EIC chair.
I haven't read One More Day because I'm really not reading anything right now comic book wise. I refuse to pay $2.99 to read the shit that they've been foisting upon the public lately (and did they really charge an extra buck an issue just so you can read some reprinted story in the same book?). I knew that the unmasking wouldn't last despite what Donquefucker said. I knew he was trying to break-up the Peter/MJ marriage. I never realized that he'd do it in such a stupid and hackneyed way. He makes the superhero who's mantra for over forty years has been 'With great power comes great responsibility' make a pact with Satan?! And the reason is to keep Aunt May, who should have died at least fifteen years ago, stay alive with him giving up his extremely supportive and loving wife? You have to be seven shades of stupid to believe that any of that either makes sense of fits the characters at all. Why does Peter want Aunt May still around? So she can break her hip struggling to make it up the stairs? Or is it so that she can fall victim to another rampaging attack by one of his enemies? Nothing like a brittle boned old woman being snapped in half by the metallic grip of Doc Ock.
Joe, as Daredevil: Father proved, you can't write. Nor are you what people would refer to as an 'idea man' in the comic business. You drew some pretty pictures in your day and got the 'Stan Lee luck' by getting the Marvel EIC position. That's it. If you really wanted Spidey's marriage to be over with that badly, you should have just gone to JMS or, better yet, Peter David or Mark Millar or any of the people on your payroll who actually have writing talent and asked them to make the story for you. As much as I've seen and heard people say that they'll never by such and such a comic over the years for whatever reason, I've never heard it so often and loudly as I have since this thing hit the shelves. Hopefully, they'll all stick to it and give Marvel no other choice but to remove your fat, donkey molesting ass out of the EIC chair.
I'm with this guy. Spot on. And, nice banner, btw. Where'd you get that?
I walked into my comic shop today, and the employees were all cracking up at how hilariously bad this thing was. The key phrase that I heard being bantered around was "It's magic!"
Oh well. I never cared that much about Spider-Man anyway. Now, I certainly have no love whatsoever...
G-Man, who exactly are all of these people that like Bendis' dialogue style?
I don't know. But they keep buying his damn books and heaping praise on him in places like "Wizard."
Understand, I'm not defending Bendis dialogue on any level. In fact, I'm not a fan of Bendis. I think the first arc of "Powers" was good but quickly because stale. I think Ultimate Spidey is okay, but I don't need to buy what are basically "reimaginings" of stories that I read already. Beyond that, I think he's a poor writer. However I seem to be in the minority on that and, therefore, wasn't sure if Halo was criticizing the dialogue or something else about Slott's story.
Well, they may buy his books, but like the Wizard stuff, I think that's all part of the corporate 'Hype Machine'. Send in enough fake emails, skew enough sale numbers through Diamond, chat up enough people with rumors and bullshit, and you can make anyone a "star". I've never talked to anyone who actually thinks he's a genuinely good writer...
Well, they may buy his books, but like the Wizard stuff, I think that's all part of the corporate 'Hype Machine'. Send in enough fake emails, skew enough sale numbers through Diamond, chat up enough people with rumors and bullshit, and you can make anyone a "star". I've never talked to anyone who actually thinks he's a genuinely good writer...
Well, they may buy his books, but like the Wizard stuff, I think that's all part of the corporate 'Hype Machine'. Send in enough fake emails, skew enough sale numbers through Diamond, chat up enough people with rumors and bullshit, and you can make anyone a "star". I've never talked to anyone who actually thinks he's a genuinely good writer...
Um...
Oh silly...you have firm breasts, and a hot ass. You could praise Liefeld and no one would bat an eye...
Well, they may buy his books, but like the Wizard stuff, I think that's all part of the corporate 'Hype Machine'. Send in enough fake emails, skew enough sale numbers through Diamond, chat up enough people with rumors and bullshit, and you can make anyone a "star". I've never talked to anyone who actually thinks he's a genuinely good writer...
Um...
Oh silly...you have firm breasts, and a hot ass. You could praise Liefeld and no one would bat an eye...
Though, there is no way I could ever praise Liefeld - not when I cannot understand how he ever got a job in the field in the first place, let alone was a popular artist once upon a time...
Well, they may buy his books, but like the Wizard stuff, I think that's all part of the corporate 'Hype Machine'. Send in enough fake emails, skew enough sale numbers through Diamond, chat up enough people with rumors and bullshit, and you can make anyone a "star". I've never talked to anyone who actually thinks he's a genuinely good writer...
Um...
Oh silly...you have firm breasts, and a hot ass. You could praise Liefeld and no one would bat an eye...
Though, there is no way I could ever praise Liefeld - not when I cannot understand how he ever got a job in the field in the first place, let alone was a popular artist once upon a time...
BTW, for those of you who are disenfranchised with Marvel comics cause of this or even Ghost Riders big reveal...read Cable/Deadpool or Captain America. Marvel's best comics, far and away.
I heard recently that Ghost Rider was actually an angel.
Really?
Jesus, that's stupid. Who's idea was that? Joey Q again?
From Wikipedia
Quote:
In July 2006, a new ongoing monthly series, titled simply Ghost Rider, began. Written by Daniel Way with art by Mark Texeira, it takes place after the Ennis miniseries. It features Blaze still in Hell, desperately trying to escape. At the end of the first issue, he is manipulated into bringing Satan to Earth. This particular incarnation of Ghost Rider features Blaze as the human host. Blaze's Ghost Rider appearance is similar to Daniel Ketch's, a change that assistant editor Michael O'Connor attributes to the manifestation of Ghost Rider's powers themselves. In a later issue it is found out that Ghost Rider is an angel and that is why the Devil counld not keep him in hell
I mades it. Going to fuck around with it in Photoshop a little more and see what I can do to spruce it up a bit.
Awesome! I've recently begun fucking around with Photoshop, too. Did you see the half-assed pics I did in the Who Thread? Yeah, I'm still learning. Plus, I have no artistic skill whatsoever. Cross likes pointing that out...
I heard recently that Ghost Rider was actually an angel.
Really?
Jesus, that's stupid. Who's idea was that? Joey Q again?
From Wikipedia
Quote:
In July 2006, a new ongoing monthly series, titled simply Ghost Rider, began. Written by Daniel Way with art by Mark Texeira, it takes place after the Ennis miniseries. It features Blaze still in Hell, desperately trying to escape. At the end of the first issue, he is manipulated into bringing Satan to Earth. This particular incarnation of Ghost Rider features Blaze as the human host. Blaze's Ghost Rider appearance is similar to Daniel Ketch's, a change that assistant editor Michael O'Connor attributes to the manifestation of Ghost Rider's powers themselves. In a later issue it is found out that Ghost Rider is an angel and that is why the Devil counld not keep him in hell
BTW, for those of you who are disenfranchised with Marvel comics cause of this or even Ghost Riders big reveal...read Cable/Deadpool or Captain America. Marvel's best comics, far and away.
I mades it. Going to fuck around with it in Photoshop a little more and see what I can do to spruce it up a bit.
Heh, background looks familiar......
It's some artist rendition of a black hole (your mom is a black hole - rex). I just started having Tom Baker intro credits flashbacks when I saw it.
Hell, I know zip about Dr. Who ('cept that they fly around in that phone booth) and I've noticed your banner. It looks like a painting. It's quite pretty.
I mades it. Going to fuck around with it in Photoshop a little more and see what I can do to spruce it up a bit.
Heh, background looks familiar......
It's some artist rendition of a black hole (your mom is a black hole - rex). I just started having Tom Baker intro credits flashbacks when I saw it.
Hell, I know zip about Dr. Who ('cept that they fly around in that phone booth) and I've noticed your banner. It looks like a painting. It's quite pretty.
The way Thor is drawn in this new series...reminds me of Ron Perlman in Beauty and the Beast.
Plus there's what happened with Loki which reminds me of the hollow, sensationalized plot devices...like with Ultron in Mighty Avengers.
Then there's JMS' excuse for not using Shakespearian rhetoric to be lazy.
Wow, and I was about to start agreeing with most of what you say. But, to compare the joy that is the current Thor mini, to the likes of the decompressed bubblegum nonsense of Might Avengers?
The way Thor is drawn in this new series...reminds me of Ron Perlman in Beauty and the Beast.
Plus there's what happened with Loki which reminds me of the hollow, sensationalized plot devices...like with Ultron in Mighty Avengers.
Then there's JMS' excuse for not using Shakespearian rhetoric to be lazy.
Wow, and I was about to start agreeing with most of what you say. But, to compare the joy that is the current Thor mini, to the likes of the decompressed bubblegum nonsense of Might Avengers?
I'm certainly not trying to accuse Thor of being as bad as Mighty Avengers. It just...seems to be part of a pattern with Marvel and cheap tricks. Of course, I can imagine Loki's little...mutation probaly makes more sense then Ultrons. What did you think?
...wait a second. I don't think I've read the current issue of Thor yet. Let me check it out before we go any further, and I might be agreeing with you...
Okay, just read it (happened to pick it up from the shop this morning). Actually, I don't know what you're complaining about there. What's the difference, really? So he's
Warning, Spoiler:
got tits
now? Doesn't make him any less of the character we know. Cosmetic changes don't bother me, really. Now, if they had actually made Loki a mutant, like you said, or Spider-Man's long-lost brother, or some other cheap crap, yeah, I'd agree. But, this?
The way Thor is drawn in this new series...reminds me of Ron Perlman in Beauty and the Beast.
Plus there's what happened with Loki which reminds me of the hollow, sensationalized plot devices...like with Ultron in Mighty Avengers.
Then there's JMS' excuse for not using Shakespearian rhetoric to be lazy.
Wow, and I was about to start agreeing with most of what you say. But, to compare the joy that is the current Thor mini, to the likes of the decompressed bubblegum nonsense of Might Avengers?
I'm certainly not trying to accuse Thor of being as bad as Mighty Avengers. It just...seems to be part of a pattern with Marvel and cheap tricks. Of course, I can imagine Loki's little...mutation probaly makes more sense then Ultrons. What did you think?
I went to Wikipedia to look this up, and while reading Loki's entry, I saw that Loki owed Spider-Man a favor.
That said, why didn't the writers have Spidey call in his favor with Loki to clear things up (either the unmasking, or Aunt May not dying, etc) instead of using Mephisto? Besides the fact that it actually acknowledges stories that came before, which Joe Quesada doesn't.
(Yeah, it still would've been a cop-out, and just as much of a thor point with fans, but it would make more sense than the illogical deal with the devil Spidey made.)
Okay, just read it (happened to pick it up from the shop this morning). Actually, I don't know what you're complaining about there. What's the difference, really? So he's
Warning, Spoiler:
got tits
now? Doesn't make him any less of the character we know. Cosmetic changes don't bother me, really. Now, if they had actually made Loki a mutant, like you said, or Spider-Man's long-lost brother, or some other cheap crap, yeah, I'd agree. But, this?
Well, like I said, my main complaint is that this reminds me of the same cheap gimmick in Mighty Avengers, although I freely admit it may very well work out better there.
Then there's JMS' excuse for not using Shakespearian rhetoric to be lazy.
The excuse might be lazy, but I for one, am glad that the stupid shakespearian rhetoric is gone. Because on that part, JMS is right, it's fucking stupid to have a Norse mythological God speak that way!
Then there's JMS' excuse for not using Shakespearian rhetoric to be lazy.
The excuse might be lazy, but I for one, am glad that the stupid shakespearian rhetoric is gone. Because on that part, JMS is right, it's fucking stupid to have a Norse mythological God speak that way!
I disagree. It's obvious that Stan Lee gave Norse and Olympean gods Shakespearian rhetoric to establish them as (for lack of a better word) higher and older beings. It gives there characters...character.
Then there's JMS' excuse for not using Shakespearian rhetoric to be lazy.
The excuse might be lazy, but I for one, am glad that the stupid shakespearian rhetoric is gone. Because on that part, JMS is right, it's fucking stupid to have a Norse mythological God speak that way!
I disagree. It's obvious that Stan Lee gave Norse and Olympean gods Shakespearian rhetoric to establish them as (for lack of a better word) higher and older beings. It gives there characters...character.
but it makes no sense for a Norse god to speak like that. And it makes them seem incapable of adapting language and grammar over time.
Originally Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man
Originally Posted By: Halo82
Originally Posted By: Chant
Originally Posted By: Halo82
Then there's JMS' excuse for not using Shakespearian rhetoric to be lazy.
The excuse might be lazy, but I for one, am glad that the stupid shakespearian rhetoric is gone. Because on that part, JMS is right, it's fucking stupid to have a Norse mythological God speak that way!
I disagree. It's obvious that Stan Lee gave Norse and Olympean gods Shakespearian rhetoric to establish them as (for lack of a better word) higher and older beings. It gives there characters...character.
but it makes no sense for a Norse god to speak like that. And it makes them seem incapable of adapting language and grammar over time.
Maybe it doesn't make sense if you expect the comic versions to be a strict translation of Norse Mythology but that would be...I don't know, unreasonable to think Stan Lee and others shouldn't have enough creative slack to make changes here and there. I think it was intresting way of making the Asguardians intresting. And as far as them not adapting both pantheons of Gods have always been arrogant...they wouldn't feel the need to adapt to lesser beings.
that would be...I don't know, unreasonable to think Stan Lee and others shouldn't have enough creative slack to make changes here and there.
I'm glad you think it's unreasonable to think that JMS doesn't have enough creative slack to make changes here and there.
I agree with getting rid of the 'King James' speech. If you look at the dialogue, Thor is still talking in a very refined manner that is above common speech and accomplishes what you want without it being corny.
that would be...I don't know, unreasonable to think Stan Lee and others shouldn't have enough creative slack to make changes here and there.
I'm glad you think it's unreasonable to think that JMS doesn't have enough creative slack to make changes here and there.
I agree with getting rid of the 'King James' speech. If you look at the dialogue, Thor is still talking in a very refined manner that is above common speech and accomplishes what you want without it being corny.
I'm not saying JMS can't get rid of it. I just disagree with his reasoning is all.
Edit: AND I think it's lazy. It's a part of Thor's character. Use or don't use it but don't tell me it doesn't make sense. It makes perfect sense for the reasons I already expained.
Originally Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man
Originally Posted By: Halo82
Originally Posted By: Chant
Originally Posted By: Halo82
Then there's JMS' excuse for not using Shakespearian rhetoric to be lazy.
The excuse might be lazy, but I for one, am glad that the stupid shakespearian rhetoric is gone. Because on that part, JMS is right, it's fucking stupid to have a Norse mythological God speak that way!
I disagree. It's obvious that Stan Lee gave Norse and Olympean gods Shakespearian rhetoric to establish them as (for lack of a better word) higher and older beings. It gives there characters...character.
but it makes no sense for a Norse god to speak like that. And it makes them seem incapable of adapting language and grammar over time.
Would you prefer he say things like, "Yumpin' yiminy! Eye yam dee Norzze God o' T'under!!!" you racist?
Here's the thing about "One More Day": even if we assume, for the moment, that we have to end the marriage, we have to make them forget, and we have to involve Mephisto, the story still could have worked better simply be fixing the motivation to one that made sense.
As others have noted, there's something fucked up about mystically annulling your marriage to save an elderly, frail, woman who is close to death in any event.
On the other hand, if Marvel had written the story so that Peter had to do this as the only way to save MJ, his wife, it might have at least made sense. Then, you'd have Peter doing this to save the love of his life, at the cost of that love.
It's still a screwed up way to "fix" things, but at least its in character and fits with Spidey's whole notion of power and responsibility.
I can't believe a hero as seasoned as Spidey would ever make a deal with the Devil. Not for any reason.
As noted earlier, I agree. I was just pointing out, like you, that the motivation was especially stupid and they could have at least fixed one gaping plot whole very easily by doing it for MJ instead of Aunt May.
I can't believe a hero as seasoned as Spidey would ever make a deal with the Devil. Not for any reason.
As noted earlier, I agree. I was just pointing out, like you, that the motivation was especially stupid and they could have at least fixed one gaping plot whole very easily by doing it for MJ instead of Aunt May.
which would've been more heroic and tragic. but even then it was kind of already done like 10 years ago in Flash.
Yeah, but when faced with a choice between "kind of already done ten years ago" and "this is completely stupid, out of character and will piss people off to no end," I would think (given fandom's general tolerance for cliche) that it would be better to go with the former plot.
I'm with G-Man. More tragic, better story. The whole Aunt May thing is horrible. Maybe they'll do a What If? and have a story with it being Mary Jane instead, or had them give a fuck off to Mephisto and had Aunt May die
May has been saved cause Spidey sold his soul to the devil. May will die of something else. Spidey will say "You cheated me, you are not having my soul!"
The devil will then make him the spirit of vengeance and ride a firey bike. Peter will drift across the country fighting such people as a man who wears a giant eyeball for a mask! Spideys head will set on fire!
I am aware of what "imagination" is. It's that magical land where Algore almost let Manbearpig kill us all.
All I'm saying, however, is that sometimes you see an actor as a certain character and that affects how you see him or her in other roles.
Craig's "Layer Cake" work (and his "Road to Perdition" work for that matter), was excellent, but it was so "unBondlike" that, coupled with the different tone that producers used for "Casino Royale" made it difficult for me to see him as the iconic version of Bond.
I am aware of what "imagination" is. It's that magical land where Algore almost let Manbearpig kill us all.
All I'm saying, however, is that sometimes you see an actor as a certain character and that affects how you see him or her in other roles.
Craig's "Layer Cake" work (and his "Road to Perdition" work for that matter), was excellent, but it was so "unBondlike" that, coupled with the different tone that producers used for "Casino Royale" made it difficult for me to see him as the iconic version of Bond.
You fuckin leave Manbearpig out of this. It was Al Gore's nuclear fetish that nearly destroyed our imagination. Then again, if the Republican govt. hadn't let terrorist invade our imagination in the first place
The devil will then make him the spirit of vengeance and ride a firey bike. Peter will drift across the country fighting such people as a man who wears a giant eyeball for a mask! Spideys head will set on fire!
Sounds good, though wouldn't it be better with a fiery Spider-mobile since, y'know, we have to keep it within context of the Spider-man story?
oh riiiiiiiiiight, they already blew that out of the water...
Apparently there's a plethora of video's about OMD on Youtube. There's one that's pretty good. Almost made me think OMD was a good story. In fact, if Peter had told Mephisto to stuff it at the end and let Aunt May die it would have been awesome. I tried to embed them but I can't so here's a page
Apparently there's a plethora of video's about OMD on Youtube. There's one that's pretty good. Almost made me think OMD was a good story. In fact, if Peter had told Mephisto to stuff it at the end and let Aunt May die it would have been awesome. I tried to embed them but I can't so here's a page
Apparently there's a plethora of video's about OMD on Youtube. There's one that's pretty good. Almost made me think OMD was a good story. In fact, if Peter had told Mephisto to stuff it at the end and let Aunt May die it would have been awesome. I tried to embed them but I can't so here's a page
Thanks. Where did you get that embedding code? I mean, I know about the Tube button on the tool bar but the embedding codes I get from the Youtube page looks like this-
Ok, forget the embedding, the code you need is in there, but its the url thats easier to work with. The url for that last clip is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u0S3HuCMrg (the "&feature=related" only appears because you have obviously clicked on a related item, so ignore that).
In that url, the only bit of code you need is the bit after the = symbol, 9u0S3HuCMrg.
Take that list of random letters and numbers, and put them between the youtube ubb tags!
I've (wisely it seems) skipped over most of the OMD books. However, in the first video that you (Pro) posted, when I got to the sequence with the "painted" artwork my first thought was "wtf? why is Iggy Pop talking to Peter about some divine cosmic plan? Is this a crossover with the Venture Brothers or something?"
Harry Osbourne, eh? Giving Flash Thompson, confirmed alcoholic, a full glass of champagne? Almost as if he's evil...
There are multiple reports that retailers have received requests from customers, often long time comic book fans, to drop their Spider-Man titles, even all their Marvel titles, after reading the conclusion of "One More Day". However, a number of retailers have reported an increased interest of "Brand New Day" readers.
But before LITG readers leave all their Marvel books in droves... consider "Spider-Girl." A monthly title published by Marvel featuring Peter Parker and Mary Jane, married, and even their little May Parker swinging around. If you really want a "screw you Joe" message, then sending this book up the ratings, written by a previous Editor-In-Chief to boot, would really do the trick. I understand some retailers have seen a small upswing for that book.
Joe Quesada uses the "Spider-Girl" example in his CBR interview, in a fairly dismissive and sarcastic fashion. But it’ll need a drop in Spider-Man sales and a bigger upswing in "Spider-Girl" before anyone will take any notice.
Quote:
And remember, don't just blame Joe Quesada and Joe Michael Straczynski for "One More Day." According to the CBR interview, you have to blame Brian Bendis, Mark Millar, Jeph Loeb, Tom Brevoort, Axel Alonzo, Ed Brubaker and Dan Slott too!
My brother came down over the weekend so we could catch the Bruins game, and we talked about this abortion of a storyline. Basically, we were figuring out how many past and present storylines this fucks up. One of the points we figured out, and doubt that anyone considered, is how this affects Thunderbolts. How is Norman going to deal with the fact that his son is alive, among other things?
I doubt it will have too much effect on Thunderbolts. Ellis is in pretty much a unique position in that he doesn't have to deal with things like this if he doesn't feel like it (which I'm sure he doesn't). I'm sure they're aware that if they attempted to force it on him, he'd simply walk away from their books, which they don't want.
I think everyone is agreed that the way Marvel eliminated Peters and MJs marriage was gayer than kamphausen at his very gayest!
Halo brings up the point that I have the biggest problem with - Peter sold his soul to the devil.
I am not religious in anyway(other than my devout worship of the horny little ginger devil Nowhereman!) But a character with Peters beliefs would never sell his soul.
To the nay sayers(I haven't met any so far), who will try to make the argument that Peter made a deal not sold his soul - you don't make deal with the devil, which Mephisto essentially is.
My next problem is the descent in the Marvel ranks! For JMS to post that he is not happy with the end of the story and wanted his name taken off the credits doesn't bold well! Yeah yeah, cheap publicity!
But it undermines these so called Marvel summits that Donkeyfucker is always going on about - it seems he listens to everybody, then he'll do what the fuck he wants! Joey the Q, preaches that they plan shit in advance but it goes to show that they had no resolution to Peters unmasking, Mays shooting - they pulled this story out Q's fat arse.
I liked the beginning of JMS run, it was the freshest Spider-man had been in years, he introduced some good topics, the Spider totem(ok, some of you guys hated it but it did have potential - which was never reached) and he even offered a more logical way out for Peter, which was mentioned earlier in this thread! In the story with Loki, it ended with Loki owing Spidey a favour! I don't care if this was beyond the characters capability, it's the Marvel Loki, I would far prefer Spidey making a deal with the Norse God of mischief then the devil - FUCK, I'd prefer peter using the Skrull crisis to get out of the secret identity thing!
Another problem is addressed by Nowhereman and G-man! I agree with Nowhereman, whether you liked Crisis, it dealt with the universe as a whole, you make liked some parts and hated others, they were dealing with everyone! Marvel is dealing with just one character, who before Civil War, they may have got away with but afterwards too many characters had been touched!
That was before of course I read the last issue of OMD to see the return of Harry - WTF!
As Joe of MAMA said, how does that effect Norman in Thunderbolts because that should should surely have major ramifercussions! Grimmalkin rightly points out that nothing will probably happen because Ellis can not be bothered with continuity.
SO! No one NOW knows who Spider-man is anymore! The general public are aware that he revealed his identity but can;t remember who he is! One word - LAZY!
Not even Daredevil knows! There goes the classic, Death of Jean De Wolff!
Ironically, one of the new writers is Dan Slott, who wrote the brilliant Spider-man/Human Torch:I'm with stupid, where Peter finally reveals his identity to close friend Johnny Storm - no more.
Spoilers.
Forgetting the actual story, at least the stories, Sins of the Past, Avengers disassembled and The Other are now resigned to the mists of time!
Hopefully the clone saga, maximum carnage and the stories from the 90s in general are also all gone!
How does this effect Venom and to a lesser extent, Carnage? Is Brock Venom again?
WOW! My longest post for a very long while! I could probably go on but I can't be bothered!
I'll end this by saying that Liefeld could probably have come up with a better story to retcon Peters and MJ marriage!
And that is essentially the point I'm trying to make - yes I can understand it being done but not only was it done so very badly but Marvel ended opening cans of worm s that never needed to - why'd the have to undo so much and bring Harry back?
Scott Tipton, over at Comics101, agrees and points out some similar issues:
how does this affect CIVIL WAR? If Spidey's unmasking and subsequent switching of sides never happened, then did CIVIL WAR unfold differently? Are we ever going to be told that story?
Forget about CIVIL WAR, what about NEW AVENGERS? Clearly, none of those comics ever happened now, since a big part of that storyline was Peter, MJ and May moving into Stark Tower, and now that all has been wiped away. It surprises me that Quesada was willing to invalidate so much of the successful work done under his watch just to undo the marriage. Not to mention that the entire Stracyznski run has now also been rendered completely invalid, which is a real shame, as when his writing wasn't being dictated by outside influences (as we've since learned was the case on SINS PAST, for example), they made for some of the best Spidey stories in years.
And what about Venom? His earliest appearances came just after the Pete-MJ marriage, and if memory serves, often involved his threatening a married MJ; clearly, none of those stories took place, so Venom's backstory by definition must now be entirely new.
That whole business with the clones? Gone, one would assume, since so much of that involved Peter and MJ struggling to stay together in the face of Pete's identity crisis.
Even more striking is Harry's return, which lets us know exactly how many years' worth of Spidey stories no longer took place. Since the Harry we see here is definitely a single Harry, with no mention of wife Liz or son Norman, either Harry has divorced Liz in the new Spidey-continuity, or that marriage never took place either, which would set back Spider-Man's time-clock all the way back to 1976. That's a lot of Spider-history to have to ignore.
I wondered about Venom, Maximum Carnage, Clone saga! As your post points out, it was during Pete's and MJ's marriage - so they really have messed these stories up!
His time with Avengers is also Royally screwed! I can't with to see the next few issues of New Avengers to see where he stands on that team!
I am going to laugh myself stupid if they retcon his membership entirely!
If all this wasn't confusing enough, bringing back Harry is the icing on the cake! As G-man post points out, where's Liz etc!
JoeQs, stick around and find out isn't quite enough for me!
;p
