http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&am..._gasprices_wa_1Quote:
Today's high gas prices have many roots
By Kevin G. Hall, Knight Ridder Newspapers
WASHINGTON - You're at the gas pump, fuming about $2.25 or more for a gallon of regular unleaded. Who's getting rich off you, how'd prices get so high, who's to blame?
Not your local convenience store, where three-quarters of Americans buy their gas. Shop owners make a penny or two per gallon. Their bonanza is inside the store, not at the pumps. They're feeling your pain because Americans are spending on gas what they used to spend on Snickers bars or Slurpees.
The most obvious villains are the giant oil companies and rich oil countries such as Saudi Arabia. But they're just two pieces of a complicated answer to why the price at the pump is so high.
Other villains include, in no particular order: you, environmentalists, the weak dollar, government regulators, Wall Street investors, China and other developing nations. All played a role in creating today's high gas prices.
For starters, many major metropolitan areas have passed laws requiring special summer blends of fuel that are less likely to evaporate in hot months and cause smog. These special blends generally are introduced about now, in early spring, and trigger price increases of roughly 30 cents a gallon during the warmer months in many parts of the country.
"This is the average we have seen every year since 2000, and it is exactly what we have seen so far this year," said Jeff Lenard, a spokesman for the National Association of Convenience Stores in Alexandria, Va.
The biggest reason pump prices have risen is the surging global price of crude oil, which is refined into gasoline. Crude oil prices are set on international markets, where price generally is determined by old-fashioned supply and demand. When a product is in short supply, people are willing to pay more for it.
Oil isn't a finished product but a commodity. That adds a wrinkle to the supply-and-demand explanation. It's traded in contracts for future delivery, and these contracts are bought and sold like stocks.
Also like stocks, the perception of risk can be as much a factor as the underlying supply-demand fundamentals in determining the value of oil. Some buyers of oil contracts are users of oil or gas who seek to lock in prices now out of concern that they might rise later. Others are investors who trade in oil as speculators, trying to guess a trend they can get rich from.
Oil prices are being driven up by investors who think the price will go higher in the future. In many cases, they might be acting for you.
"The oil market, believe it or not, is being fueled by your pension fund," said Philip K. Verleger, a noted oil economist in Aspen, Colo. "For more than a decade, investment bankers have been advising pension funds to put 10 percent or 11 percent of their assets into commodities."
The New York Mercantile Exchange last month reported an all-time high in trading for crude oil-futures contracts. Regulators said noncommercial traders, pension funds and the more speculative hedge funds accounted for 34 percent of the contracts last month.
Then there's you, the consumer. Gas-guzzling SUVs help make the United States the world's largest consumer of oil, at 21 million barrels a day. Americans will consume 1.7 percent more gasoline this year than last despite the higher prices, the Energy Information Administration estimated Thursday. It's the analytical arm of the Energy Department.
India and China also are stretching supplies, as fast-developing nations. China is on course to equal today's U.S. consumption of oil by 2020. While the United States imports oil mainly to power vehicles, China imports it to power industry. China's industrial growth, in great measure, is tied to the strong U.S. economy that buys its exports. American consumers pay China's oil bills.
"We're the ones buying the goods from China. It is driving their increased demand for energy," said John Giglio, an oil expert and the executive director of the National Association of State Energy Officials in Alexandria, Va.
Meanwhile, the supply of oil, industry analysts said, is growing at only 2 percent a year. Refineries are running at 90 percent capacity or more. There's no margin for error.
"There is no cushion in the market to absorb any unexpected changes in supply and demand," said Guy Caruso, the head of the Energy Information Administration. Saudi Arabia reportedly pledged this week to pump oil up to the limits of its matchless production capacity in an effort to calm market nerves, but so far markets haven't much reacted.
A single event - such as a strategically placed bomb in Iraq or Saudi Arabia, or sabotage at a U.S. refinery - could spark global shortages.
"We're used to an oil market that if Iraq goes down or Nigeria goes down, Saudi Arabia and other producers can cover it. We don't have that anymore," said Rick Mueller, an analyst at Energy Security Analysis Inc. in Wakefield, Mass.
The potential for scarcity drives up the price of oil.
The weak U.S. dollar is another reason that gasoline costs more. Oil is traded in dollars, and the dollar has lost 15 to 20 percent against most major currencies. Oil companies and producing nations have raised prices to compensate for the dollar's slump.
Your loss at the pumps is the gain of oil-rich nations and global oil giants.
Big oil companies posted record profits last year and should grow even flusher this year. Oil companies will occupy three of the top 10 spots when Fortune magazine releases its ranking of the top 500 publicly traded companies Monday.
Exxon Mobil Corp. ranks second, behind only Wal-Mart. Exxon posted sales nearing $221 billion in 2004, a figure roughly equivalent to the economy of Greece. Fortune ranked it the most profitable company on its list, with $21.5 billion in profits, a staggering figure larger than the economies of Madagascar and Iceland combined.
ChevronTexaco Corp. and ConocoPhillips ranked 7th and 8th, respectively. ChevronTexaco saw its net income - or profit - jump to $13.3 billion in 2004, almost twice its 2003 take.
Oil-producing countries also get rich, by requiring the oil companies to cut them in on the deal. Norway, the world's third largest oil exporter, is thought to have the world's highest standard of living, thanks to oil income. Booming oil prices brought Norway a 19 percent increase in oil exports last year, to $38 billion.
Other factors include:
When you pump $20 dollars into your tank, that money is broken up into little pieces that get distributed among several entities. Gas is just like any other consumer product: There's a supply chain and several groups who are responsible for setting the price of the product. The media can sometimes lead you to believe that the price of gas is based solely on the price of
crude oil, but there are actually many factors that determine what you pay at the pump. No matter how expensive gas becomes, all of these entities have to get their slice of the pie.
Source: U.S. Department of Energy
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Let's look at where your money goes when you pay for gas:
- Crude oil - The biggest portion of the cost of gas -- about 45 percent -- goes to the crude-oil suppliers. This is determined by the world's oil-exporting nations, particularly the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC), which you will learn more about in the next section. The amount of crude oil these countries produce determines the price of a barrel of oil. Crude-oil prices rose to as high as $37 per barrel (1 barrel = 42 gallons or 159.6 L) in 2000(Source: U.S. DOE).Sometimes, gas prices go up even though there is plenty of crude oil on the market. It depends on what kind of oil it is. Oil can be classified as heavy or light, and as sweet or sour (no on actually tastes the oil, that's just what they call it). Light, sweet crude is easier and cheaper to refine, but supplies have been running low. There's plenty of heavy, sour crude available in the world, but refineries, particularly those in the U.S., have to undergo costly retooling to handle it.
- Refining costs - The refining of crude oil makes up about 13 percent of the price of gasoline. To learn more about oil refining, read How Oil Refining Works.
- Distribution and marketing - Crude oil is transported to refineries, and gasoline is shipped from the refineries to distribution points and then to gas stations. The price of transportation is passed along to the consumer. Marketing the brand of the oil company is also added into the cost of the gasoline you buy. Together, these two factors account for about 13 percent of the price of gasoline.
- Taxes - Taxes, including federal and local, account for about 31 percent of the total price of gas in the United States. Federal excise taxes are 18.4 cents per gallon, and state excise taxes average 20 cents per gallon. There may also be some additional state sales taxes, as well as local and city taxes. In Europe, gas prices are far higher than in America because taxes on gas are much higher. For example, gas prices in England have risen as high as $6 per gallon, with 78 percent of that going to taxes.
- Station markup - In order to stay in business, service stations have to add on a few more cents to make a profit. There's no set standard for how much gas stations add on to the price. Some may add just a couple of cents, while others may add as much as a dime or more. However, some states have markup laws prohibiting stations from charging less than a certain percentage over invoice from the wholesaler. These laws are designed to protect small, individually-owned gas stations from being driven out of business by large chains who can afford to slash prices at select locations.
Gas prices also vary from state to state for several reasons. Taxes are probably the biggest factor in the different prices around the country. Additionally, competition among local gas stations can drive prices down. Distance from the oil refineries can also affect prices -- stations closer to the Gulf of Mexico, where many oil refineries are located, have lower gas prices due to lower transportation costs. There are also some regional factors that can affect prices.
World events, wars and weather can also raise prices. Anything that affects any part of the process, from the moment the oil is drilled, through refining and distribution to your car will result in a change in price. Military conflicts in parts of the world with lots of oil supplies can make it difficult for oil companies to drill and ship crude oil. Hurricanes have damaged offshore drilling platforms, coastal refineries and shipping ports that receive oil tankers. If a tanker itself is lost or damaged, or leaks its oil into the ocean, that will put a dent in the market as well.
You Americans have the cheapest gas prices in the world, so stop complaining.
our economy relies on cheap gas. When gas is cheap people spend more on crap they don't need, and when gas is high people begin buying more essential items. Also people travel less so that hurts tourism.
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The Time Trust said:
You Americans have the cheapest gas prices in the world, so stop complaining.
You're kidding right?
Arabs pay 10-15 cents a gallon.
Wether it be taxes, oil companies or what, the fact that Americans continue to buy fuel inefficient cars and SUVs signals to the market that they can raise prices and taxes 'till thier hearts are content and we'll whine, but we'll still pay it.
20 bucks a tank?!? Try 30 and that's WITH gas in the tank for a friggin Corsica! AND that's in the suburbs.
GAH! I filled the tank on Friday and there was no WAY I ws driving down to Aurora (72 miles south of me) to hang out with my friend, AND pay jacked up toll prices because I don't have an I-Pass yet.
No, I haven't paid 20 bucks for a tank in years.
i believe my mom's pay 40 twice a week to fill h er volvo. not very happy bout that.
Oil is supposed to spike to $100.00 a barrel soon which'll mean $4.00/gallon gasoline.
Good.
Maybe those gluttons in their military vehicles, which they desperately need in order to carry their 2 bags of groceries from the market to their home, will put more thought into what is essential and what is just wasteful.
That's it, I'm definately buying a motorcycle.
What I want real info on is why the prices of postage stamps and movie tickets have to be so fucking high/frequently increased. I've gone to see three movies in theaters in the last four years because of it.
This is one of the few reasons I like taking the bus.
$35 dollars a month and it goes everywhere I need to go.
the bus goes shit nowhere regarding where I go
I live in a college town so most the people here are too poor to have a car.
I live in a military town so most people have dead parents.
I'm going to visit Chernobyl someday soon. Hopefully the radiation will screw with my genetics and give me the ability to teleport like Nightcrawler.
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rex said:
This is one of the few reasons I like taking the bus.
$35 dollars a month and it goes everywhere I need to go.
I'm seriously considering switching to bus as my form of transportation.
Its probably more where you live. For some reason its really cheap here.
It's actually $32/month here.
My gas rides on $2.54/gallon.
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rex said:
I live in a college town so most the people here are too poor to have a car.
That's interesting. Whenever I head back to Ithaca, New York, it seems like every student is driving an SUV.
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rex said:
This is one of the few reasons I like taking the bus.
$35 dollars a month and it goes everywhere I need to go.
Unfortunatly that only works if you live in an area where they have a real public transportation system. Up by my house we have busses, but you can't get everywhere with them. I know I've tried before. Which is why I have to have a car. No car, no work/job, church, etc.
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Paul Mandral said:
Oil is supposed to spike to $100.00 a barrel soon which'll mean $4.00/gallon gasoline.
Good.
Maybe those gluttons in their military vehicles, which they desperately need in order to carry their 2 bags of groceries from the market to their home, will put more thought into what is essential and what is just wasteful.
What do you drive and what milage do you get?
Truth be told, since I own and drive a motor-bike, the prices don't effect me as much as they do other people. It still ticks me off though. Just thought I'd say that.
I recently read that oil production is in its peak, and it will only get lower and lower from now on. OPEC is pumping as much as they can. To get oil from tar sand (in Alaska and Canada), you'll need nuclear power. So by all means, consider more efficient cars and alternative fuels.
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wannabuyamonkey said:
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Paul Mandral said:
Oil is supposed to spike to $100.00 a barrel soon which'll mean $4.00/gallon gasoline.
Good.
Maybe those gluttons in their military vehicles, which they desperately need in order to carry their 2 bags of groceries from the market to their home, will put more thought into what is essential and what is just wasteful.
What do you drive and what milage do you get?
I wonder what the effect a world-wide terrorist strike against oil refineries and oilfields would have on the world economy. A new depression, maybe?
That's a distinct possibility.I wonder how today's world would handle it(not that I want something like that to happen just so I would know)?
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Captain Sweden said:
I wonder what the effect a world-wide terrorist strike against oil refineries and oilfields would have on the world economy. A new depression, maybe?
A large chunk of the US economies' troubles over the last five years was due to 9/11, and the fact they attacked the US's major financial markets. So, yeah, that's possible.
OTOH, we've been led to believe that a big chunk of the backing for the terrorists comes from the oil shieks. So that could be a major "bite the hand that feeds you" scenario.
I saw this report about gas prices on the PBS program NOW, back on Friday, Nov 11th.
( transcript: )
http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcriptNOW145_full.html
What was in the program is an argument based on the opinion of multiple oil-industry insiders that the larger oil corporations conspired to drive up prices, largely by purchasing and/or leveraging out the smaller gas companies that were keeping the price down.
The report cites several internal oil corporation memos, that leveraging out smaller oil companies was an objective, to raise prices and maximize profits.
You can also order the program on DVD.
I'm not a big fan of NOW, but I felt this was a good story.
Another good story in their archives from a few weeks ago is one on the rising cost of homes, and the housing boom/bubble. (
HERE , from August 26, 2005 )
The Real Gas Price Gougerhow come no one gets upset about the 50-70 cents (or more) per gallon in taxes imposed by government?
Federal (18.4 cents per gallon), state (35-50 cents per gallon), and local motor fuels taxes (anywhere from 5-10 cents or more per gallon) account for at least one-third of the per-gallon cost of gasoline -- an outrageous levy in both absolute terms and as a percentage of the purchase price of the item being taxed. Imagine, for instance, if you had to fork over 50 cents in taxes for every $1 or so of groceries you purchased.
And gasoline is no less an "essential" than food for most people.
These taxes are also viciously regressive -- that is, they take more as a percentage of disposal income from the least able to pay. After all, most of us have no choice about driving, regardless of our income. People in areas outside of major cities (where there is no public transport system) especially. The "rich" (a frequent whipping boy of class warfare types) may be able to afford the exactions without it affecting their day to day lives. But what of the person of modest means?
Let's assume a gas tax (all levels) of 50 cents per gallon. (A lowball figure, by the way; in some states, e.g. Connecticut and New York, combined motor fuels taxes imposed by all levels of government can push $1 per gallon or even more.) A purchase of 15 gallons of fuel (the amount it takes to fill the typical new car's tank) would entail $7.50 in taxes alone. Most people burn a tank of fuel per week (at least), so that means $30 per month down the rathole, just for gas taxes -- or $360 per year.
How many people do you know who can afford to lose nearly $400 annually without it affecting their budgets?
And yet, they (our friends in government) hunger for even more.
Since 1997, 14 state legislatures have voted to raise their state gas taxes a total of 17 times; these increases ranged from 1 cent per gallon in North Dakota to 6 cents a gallon in Ohio. Many local (county/city) governments around the country tack on "inspection fees" and other nit-picky taxes -- including a "seawall tax" in Mississippi and a "special petroleum tax" in Tennessee. (Click here for more details.)
There is talk of adding a nickel (or more) to the federal gas tax, too. Some lawmakers want another 50 cents per gallon (or even more than that).
And yet, no one complains much about this endless, brazen highway robbery -- which comes after, let us not forget, federal and state income taxes which together snatch anywhere from 15-40 cents of every dollar we earn right off the bat. So with the change left over, we're compelled to pay yet again -- and then again. And at confiscatory rates, too.
State's Price Controls on Gasoline Are Said To Have Cost ConsumersHawaii is about to scrap its effort to legislate away high gasoline prices, after the state's "gas cap" law failed to lower prices at the pump and led to claims that the regulation cost drivers tens of millions of dollars since it went into effect in September.
"It's farcical, to be honest," the president of a gas station chain on the islands, Richard Parry, said in an interview yesterday. "Everyone sort of says, 'This obviously hasn't worked.'"
In a vote earlier this month, only one of Hawaii's 51 state representatives voted to retain the cap. Even the state senator who led the drive to institute the cap last year has endorsed the idea of suspending the cap indefinitely, though he has also proposed modifying the price controls so they would only kick in under certain conditions.
A study released in February by the state's Department of Business, Economic Development, and Tourism concluded that the caps cost consumers as much as $55 million.
Mr. Parry said the caps encourage wholesalers to hike gas prices. "It's a natural business decision that if you're not sure if you can make money when the prices go down, I better make money when the prices go up," he said. "What happened is the market basically follows the cap. A bunch of independent decision-makers come up with the same logical choice."
Mr. Parry said he was sympathetic to the lawmakers' desire to see lower gas prices, but didn't think they could fend off the economic forces at work. "You can't pick a piece of the market and regulate only that," he said. Mr. Hamilton contends that the gas cap may not have failed at all, but may have headed off even greater increases in price.
The cost of diesel fuel, which is not covered by the cap, jumped in Hawaii by about 70 cents since last year, he noted. "It's not been in effect long enough to tell what it's done," said the analyst, who works with independent station owners often at odds with the oil companies.
Hawaii's house has voted to address the price concerns by lowering gas taxes by 8 cents a gallon, but proponents of the gas cap have not given up on it altogether. The latest proposal from the state senator who initiated the legislation, Ron Menor, calls for adding Singapore's wholesale spot prices to the three mainland prices already included.
The most expensive price would be dropped from the average in order to weed out local disruptions like hurricanes in the gulf. The cap, which already includes local adjustments for the costs of transporting fuel among Hawaii's six main islands, would be triggered only if prices exceed the "fair price" target over a two-week period.
Mr. Parry said the escalating complexity of the caps and targets will only bring more volatility in what has traditionally been a stable market
"It's artificially trying to emulate a free market and there's just no way government can effectively do that. We've proven that in the last six months," he said.
Ready for another energy crisis?Soaring demand is pumping gas prices sky-high and has left America poised for a major fuel crisis this summer, watchdogs said yesterday.
An industry expert warned any supply breakdown could trigger shortages more drastic than the aftermath of last year's devastating hurricane season, which crippled Gulf Coast pipelines and caused prices at New York pumps to approach $4 a gallon.
"All that has to happen is another Katrina-like event, or political factors in the Middle East, and we are looking at major, major disruption," said Robert Sinclair, a spokesman for AAA's Automobile Club of New York.
Oil markets are already jittery following terrorist attacks on oil facilities in Nigeria and rising tensions over Iran's nuclear program.
Both countries are major oil producers.
U.S. Energy Department forecasters warned that fuel costs - nudging toward $3 a gallon in New York - would climb an additional 10 to 15 cents by Memorial Day, one of the year's busiest driving weekends.
Last week, it already cost motorists 40% more to fill up their tanks than it did the same time last year.
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the G-man said:
Ready for another energy crisis?
Soaring demand is pumping gas prices sky-high and has left America poised for a major fuel crisis this summer, watchdogs said yesterday.
An industry expert warned any supply breakdown could trigger shortages more drastic than the aftermath of last year's devastating hurricane season, which crippled Gulf Coast pipelines and caused prices at New York pumps to approach $4 a gallon.
"All that has to happen is another Katrina-like event, or political factors in the Middle East, and we are looking at major, major disruption," said Robert Sinclair, a spokesman for AAA's Automobile Club of New York.
Oil markets are already jittery following terrorist attacks on oil facilities in Nigeria and rising tensions over Iran's nuclear program.
Both countries are major oil producers.
U.S. Energy Department forecasters warned that fuel costs - nudging toward $3 a gallon in New York - would climb an additional 10 to 15 cents by Memorial Day, one of the year's busiest driving weekends.
Last week, it already cost motorists 40% more to fill up their tanks than it did the same time last year.
I don't think any discussion of any energy crisis can be conducted without examining and considering the record profits oil companies have experienced in the last year.
That's it! I'm buying a bicycle! I live in the Midwest, where gas prices don't seem to be quite as bad (compared to the coasts) and it's supposed to be up to $3 a gallon this summer. No way! I'll either be biking it or taking the heel-toe express. And start petitioning that we get better public transportation!
I don't drive a gas guzzler or anything, but it's still too expensive to be filling up my car every few weeks!
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sweetmarlene said:
That's it! I'm buying a bicycle! I live in the Midwest, where gas prices don't seem to be quite as bad (compared to the coasts)
I saw $2.89 per gallon yesterday.
Yeah, it's $2.80 today. A friend of mine just spent $35 filling up her tank. Granted, she drives a Jeep, but still...
This is very unsettling. I guess, as in a lot of occasions here on Earth, the words STAY TUNED apply...
I don't drive a gas guzzler either. 95 Honda Civic. I can get roughly 300 miles on a tankful, based on my usual city/highway driving. But still, I feel it if I have to spend $20 per week to fill up.
If I have to feel the pinch, why don't the oil companies feel that same pinch? If gas prices continue to soar all the while their profits do likewise, they're going to price the American consumer out of being able to afford to spend money in a fashion that puts $ back into the American economy.
If the demand for gas is still going up despite the price hikes, is it really the oil companies' who are to blame for their profits. They have to make a profit in order to keep running. If they sell more every year, they're going to make more profits, period. Simple math. I have yet to see anyone show that the oil companies are the ones driving up the cost themselves. It's mainly the market setting the price.
Gas was 25 cents a gallon in 1957, the year I was born. I vividly remember being 4 years old, and my dad taking me to the gas station to fill the tank of his Cadillac before a trip to Atlantic City, NJ....and it cost about $3.00!!! My father handed me the money to give to the Service station attendant.
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thedoctor said:
If the demand for gas is still going up despite the price hikes, is it really the oil companies' who are to blame for their profits. They have to make a profit in order to keep running. If they sell more every year, they're going to make more profits, period. Simple math. I have yet to see anyone show that the oil companies are the ones driving up the cost themselves. It's mainly the market setting the price.
This is a good point.
In the article I posted earlier, one of the parts I did not include, was a guy from Yonkers complaining how he had "no choice" but to drive his car to and from work.
I could be wrong, but back when I lived near NYC, pretty much every suburb had decent public transportation: the train, the bus, etc. In fact, when I lived on Long Island, and commuted into the city, I NEVER took a car into work.
So I don't have a lot of sympathy for some of these people.
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thedoctor said:
If the demand for gas is still going up despite the price hikes, is it really the oil companies' who are to blame for their profits. They have to make a profit in order to keep running.
But do they need to make RECORD profits during this time in our nation's history? We've got a war going on in Iraq, probably another one upcoming in or over Iran. Do they need to make so much extra money?
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thedoctor said:
It's mainly the market setting the price.
Hey, I'm not above being angry also at those who drive gas guzzlers like SUVs. We've all got to behave responsibly with respect to our use of fossil fuels.
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sweetmarlene said:
Yeah, it's $2.80 today. A friend of mine just spent $35 filling up her tank. Granted, she drives a Jeep, but still...
2.65-69
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Jim Jackson said:
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thedoctor said:
If the demand for gas is still going up despite the price hikes, is it really the oil companies' who are to blame for their profits. They have to make a profit in order to keep running.
But do they need to make RECORD profits during this time in our nation's history? We've got a war going on in Iraq, probably another one upcoming in or over Iran. Do they need to make so much extra money?
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thedoctor said:
If they sell more every year, they're going to make more profits, period. Simple math.
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thedoctor said:
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Jim Jackson said:
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thedoctor said:
If the demand for gas is still going up despite the price hikes, is it really the oil companies' who are to blame for their profits. They have to make a profit in order to keep running.
But do they need to make RECORD profits during this time in our nation's history? We've got a war going on in Iraq, probably another one upcoming in or over Iran. Do they need to make so much extra money?
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thedoctor said:
If they sell more every year, they're going to make more profits, period. Simple math.
Your simple math is not so simple and does not account for the role of the price increases on those profits. You haven't teased out SOLD MORE from COSTS A LOT.
If you tease that out, then let's talk.
Record amounts of consumption leads to record profits. This isn't the 80's where the government had slapped the hand of oil companies so hard in the 70's to make them just pump all the money into their pockets. Oil companies now invest in new, cheaper, and safer technologies for drilling as well as finding more oil deposits in which to drill from.
Talk to China and the folks in the SUV's about the rising costs of gasoline.
well, its currently 2.75 per gallon of 87.
all i can think of is how much food i could buy for 2.75. thats a half a gallon of milk and a lofe of bread.
we spend about 50 bucks fillin the tank. once some times twice a week.
its horrible. that and yes everything goes up in price as well. the bus system sucks. theres no entertainment places but the mall and movie theaters. ticket prices for a movie is ridiculious. so yea. we basicilly have resorted to, if we dont need anything we dont go anywhere.
I have to get premium.
Saw it for $3.01 today
BUT I found a Wal-Mart where it was only 2.97. SAAAweet.
Woot.
BUT as they say, gas consumption is LONG TERM elastic.
Check this out...
Prius attempts to hit 113 miles per gallonhttp://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/66260/prius_hits_113mpg.htmlQuote:
First Autoexpress reported the next Toyota Prius would be turbocharged, now the UK mag says the company is going after a Grail-like triple-digit mileage figure. According to a report, the next Prius will have a mileage target of 113 mpg, which is more than double what most Prius owners see from their current gas-electric hybrids. Toyota hopes to beat Mitsubishi to market with new, lithium-ion cells that are lighter, smaller, generate more power and last longer. Of course, with a plug-in hack even a current Prius could get 250 mpg or more, not that Toyota would consider that kind of action.
Prius Hits 113 mpg [Autoexpress (hat tip, Motorpulse)]]
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thedoctor said:
Talk to China and the folks in the SUV's about the rising costs of gasoline.
Why talk to the folks in the SUVs? No one compelled them to purchase a machine with such poor fuel economy. Am I to feel sorry for them? No fucking way. If fuel costs are going to be an issue for you in the use of the vehicle you're purchasing, for crying out loud don't buy a damned SUV.
"It's Deja vu all over again!"
I guess you bambinos have no recollection of the 70s & 80s. Jim, the reluctant Boomer, should though. We had this problem licked at one time. The solution was greater efficiency in energy consumetion, most visibly in autos. How do you think the Japanese conquered the American auto market? It wasn't a sudden love of small cars on the part of American consumers.
This time around I don't care that much because I have a good public transportation system. You folks are gonna have to do like your parents (HEAVENS, NOT THAT!); dump the gas guzzler and buy a fuel efficient vehicle. The Japanese economy is saved once again by profligacy accross the Pacific!
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Jim Jackson said:
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thedoctor said:
Talk to China and the folks in the SUV's about the rising costs of gasoline.
Why talk to the folks in the SUVs? No one compelled them to purchase a machine with such poor fuel economy. Am I to feel sorry for them? No fucking way. If fuel costs are going to be an issue for you in the use of the vehicle you're purchasing, for crying out loud don't buy a damned SUV.
Um, I think you missed the point alltogether. It's not that you should feel sorry for them, but rather that they're the ones using the fuel and driving up the cost of oil. Remember? record consumption = record proffits. The point is blame the consumers, not the providors for record proffits.
I agree with WBAM.
And Magicjay.
And Jim.
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You folks are gonna have to do like your parents (HEAVENS, NOT THAT!); dump the gas guzzler and buy a fuel efficient vehicle.
Done and done.
At the risk of sounding like a lib. I don't mid high gas prices, because it forces the consumer into more efficient vehicles and increases the demand for alternitive fuels. Libs usually love this sorta thing, but they also love to hate Bush and Corperations, so they're in a bit of a quandry right now.
Quote:
the G-man said:
I agree with WBAM.
And Magicjay.
And Jim.
And your head didn't explode?
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
You folks are gonna have to do like your parents (HEAVENS, NOT THAT!); dump the gas guzzler and buy a fuel efficient vehicle.
Done and done.
At the risk of sounding like a lib. I don't mid high gas prices, because it forces the consumer into more efficient vehicles and increases the demand for alternitive fuels.
Listen, man, I have done the best that I can. I drive a fairly fuel efficient car and I do not spend wasteful hours just driviing for the hell of it. But I cannot afford these gas prices! Living on my own, paying child support. What more does the market want from me?!
While we're bitching about energy prices, does anyone recall the Energy Bust? After the price jumps in the 70's we began reducing our consumtion and prices tumbled. All those folks that moved from the Midwest to Texas for jobs, moved back home. Check out Urban Cowboy at the video store sometime! Enron was not the first disaster to create see-through buildings in downtown Houston. People closed escrows on new houses elsewhere then abandoned their houses in the oil patch.
You've got market economics playing live on the corner at your local gas station. Hope you enjoy the show!
Getting back to what Jim Jackson had to say about record profits for oil manufacturers last year, I think that's a very valid point.
The cost of raw materials and refining oil may have gone up, but oil
profits have way outpaced cost.
And just as it was valid to ask about Clinton's gays-in-the-military advocacy, based on the fact that the gay lobby was among Clinton's largest campaign contributors, it's just as valid to point out that oil manufacturers are among G.W Bush's largest contributors.
That
doesn't necessarily mean that W. Bush (or Clinton before him) are guilty of impropriety. But it does warrant asking the obvious questions and investigating.
Although no one but the conspiracy-prone are blaming the gas increases on Bush at this point in time.
As this report from last night's PBS broadcast makes clear. There are
plenty of other factors that are spiking gas prices.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/economy/jan-june06/gas_4-12.html
And actually, for the usually un-sensational PBS News Hour, this report is remarkably alarmist.
( see also the NOW broadcast report I posted to this topic in November 2005)
Although I may be wrong about oil profits being excessively high.
According to
ConocoPhillips, the profit margins are not that large, percentage-wise, as compared to other U.S. industries.
Although when you're talking about an industry that operates in the tens or hundreds of billions, even a slight percentage increase works out to an enormous amount of money.
The same link above also argues that there is significant federal regulation of the oil industry, going back to the early 70's.
I'm not pointing this one at Bush.
I just want to be able to afford gas for my car.
Quote:
the G-man said:
I agree with WBAM.
And Magicjay.
And Jim.
Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
And your head didn't explode?
Nah. The point where I agree with each of you is on the idea that gas prices are tied to consumption and that people who drive SUVs shouldn't bitch too much about gas prices.
Granted, I drive an SUV. But, as noted before, I live in a rural area of upstate New York. SUVs are more or less necessary here. If I lived in a city, or a southern state, I wouldn't have one. And I think that most people who live in such places and do are complete idiots.
Quote:
magicjay38 said:
While we're bitching about energy prices, does anyone recall the Energy Bust? After the price jumps in the 70's we began reducing our consumtion and prices tumbled. All those folks that moved from the Midwest to Texas for jobs, moved back home. Check out Urban Cowboy at the video store sometime! Enron was not the first disaster to create see-through buildings in downtown Houston. People closed escrows on new houses elsewhere then abandoned their houses in the oil patch.
You've got market economics playing live on the corner at your local gas station. Hope you enjoy the show!
Just because it sucked then, doesn't mean that it doesn't suck now. Gas prices are way to fucking high and they need to go back down again. Maybe consumerism or ethanol will sweep down and save us, but it still sucks for now and as long as life sucks, bitching will happen.
Before you ask, I'm 24 and remember absolutely nothing from the 70s.
http://taxprof.typepad.com
With BP, Exxon-Mobil, and Shell reporting record profits, the Tax Foundation reminds us in its latest Fiscal Fact that the biggest beneficiaries of gasoline sales are federal and state governments, not the oil industry:
High gas prices and strong oil company earnings have generated a rash of new tax proposals in recent months.
Some lawmakers have called for new “windfall profits” taxes—similar to the one signed into federal law in 1980 by President Jimmy Carter—that would tax the profits of major oil companies at a rate of 50%.
Meanwhile, many commentators have voiced support for the idea of increasing gas taxes to keep the price of gasoline at post-Katrina highs, thereby reducing gas consumption.
However, often ignored in this debate is the fact that oil industry profits are highly cyclical, making them just as prone to “busts” as to “booms.”
Additionally, tax collections on the production and import of gasoline by state and federal governments are already near historic highs. In fact, in recent decades governments have collected far more revenue from gasoline taxes than the largest U.S. oil companies have collectively earned in domestic profits....
[F]ederal and state taxes on gasoline production and imports have been climbing steadily since the late 1970s and now total roughly $58.4 billion. Due in part to substantial hikes in the federal gasoline excise tax in 1983, 1990, and 1993, annual tax revenues have continued to grow. Since 1977, governments collected more than $1.34 trillion, after adjusting for inflation, in gasoline tax revenues—more than twice the amount of domestic profits earned by major U.S. oil companies during the same period:
GRAPH, showing annual government taxes on oil, -vs- private oil corporate profits
So that would make U.S. private oil industry profits somewhere in excess of
600 billion since 1977 ?
and
According to
Fortune magazine, Exxon's earnings for last year give it the highest earnings of any U.S. corporation in history.
Larger profits than the next four largest U.S. Fortune 500 corporations combined.
( $339.9 billion in revenue, and profits of $36.1 billion for the year )
Quote:
Killconey said:
Quote:
magicjay38 said:
While we're bitching about energy prices, does anyone recall the Energy Bust? After the price jumps in the 70's we began reducing our consumtion and prices tumbled. All those folks that moved from the Midwest to Texas for jobs, moved back home. Check out Urban Cowboy at the video store sometime! Enron was not the first disaster to create see-through buildings in downtown Houston. People closed escrows on new houses elsewhere then abandoned their houses in the oil patch.
You've got market economics playing live on the corner at your local gas station. Hope you enjoy the show!
Just because it sucked then, doesn't mean that it doesn't suck now. Gas prices are way to fucking high and they need to go back down again. Maybe consumerism or ethanol will sweep down and save us, but it still sucks for now and as long as life sucks, bitching will happen.
Before you ask, I'm 24 and remember absolutely nothing from the 70s.
I meant no offense, Killcony. I know it sucks. In the earlier crisies we even had to wait in line to buy gas and that REALLY sucked. My point was that markets will prevail. Consumers will reduce their consumption and the price will fall. It won't happen overnight but that's the way market economics works. You guys, like we before you, will buy smaller cars. Then in 20 or 30 years you'll forget why you're driving a Prius and move up to some cruise ship sized vehicle and the whole process will repeat itself. The good news is I won't be around to say 'I told you so!'. 
Quote:
Wonder Boy said:
http://taxprof.typepad.com
[LIST]With BP, Exxon-Mobil, and Shell reporting record profits, the Tax Foundation reminds us in its latest Fiscal Fact that the biggest beneficiaries of gasoline sales are federal and state governments, not the oil industry:
High gas prices and strong oil company earnings have generated a rash of new tax proposals in recent months.
I pretty much agree with your post, Dave. Even though I'm a liberal, pinko. commie, fag I've got no problem with people making a buck!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060418/ap_on_bi_ge/oil_pricesQuote:
Oil Prices Settle Above $71 a Barrel
By BRAD FOSS, AP Business Writer
WASHINGTON - Oil prices settled at a new high above $71 a barrel Tuesday as supply threats around the world overshadowed a new report from OPEC forecasting weakening global demand.
There was no fresh catalyst for Tuesday's buying, but analysts said the market psychology would likely remain bullish until there is some resolution to a variety of geopolitical uncertainties, particularly the West's nuclear dispute with Iran and output disruptions in Nigeria.
Global Insight oil analyst Kevin Lindemer said the slowing consumption growth and swelling inventories of crude oil in the United States would typically help pull down prices, but "all of that is getting swamped right now by Iran and Nigeria."
Light, sweet crude for May delivery on the New York Mercantile Exchange rose as high as $71.60 a barrel, surpassing the previous intraday record of $70.85 set Aug. 30. Oil settled at $71.35, an increase of 95 cents from Monday's record closing price.
With gasoline prices averaging $2.79 a gallon, U.S. motorists are shelling out $212 million per day more than a year ago, and President Bush said Tuesday he was "concerned" about the impact this was having on American families and small businesses.
Many economists believe the impact of $70 oil on the country's financial engine will not be as drastic as it was last August in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. The argument is that consumers have gotten accustomed to prices at today's levels because they have moved up gradually and that it will take a sharp and sustained leap in energy prices before there are any serious economic ramifications.
"We will feel real pain at the pump before this market tops out," said James Cordier, president of Liberty Trading in Tampa, Fla. Cordier predicted gasoline prices could rise as high as $3.50 a gallon in some parts of the country this summer.
So far, demand for gasoline continues to rise, albeit at a slower pace than a year ago, according to Energy Department data.
The Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries on Tuesday revised its demand-growth forecast for 2006 to 1.42 million barrels a day, down from 1.46 million barrels per day in the previous report. The cartel estimates that global crude-oil demand will be slightly above 84.5 million barrels per day — about half a million barrels per day lower than the current Wall Street consensus.
OPEC expressed particular concern about the impact rising interest rates would have on consumer spending in the U.S., where gasoline demand grew at a slower rate in the first quarter and could "carry over into the second half of the year."
Oil prices are now 42 percent higher than last year. But with global crude oil production only barely keeping up with demand, leaving a slim margin for error if there is a prolonged supply interruption, experts say prices are likely to climb further.
Traders are anxious that U.S.-led efforts to stop Iran, OPEC's second-largest member, from pursuing a suspected nuclear weapons program could lead to a disruption in Persian Gulf supplies. On Tuesday, Russia maintained its opposition to sanctions against Iran, while President Bush said he would continue to focus on diplomacy but that "all options are on the table" to prevent Iran from developing atomic weapons.
In Nigeria, militant attacks have led Royal Dutch Shell PLC to shut large amounts of production. Platts estimates Nigeria's output fell by 220,000 barrels per day in March, compared with February.
Also underpinning high oil prices is booming demand in emerging economies such as China and India.
"The market sentiment now is much more nervous," said Tetsu Emori, chief commodities strategist at Mitsui Bussan Futures in Tokyo. "Things haven't changed so much, but as we approach the summer driving season we'll need more crude to make gasoline and we know also that U.S. gasoline production has its limitations because of the tight refining capacity."
Sen. Charles Schumer (news, bio, voting record), D-N.Y., implored the Federal Trade Commission on Tuesday to "rigorously monitor" the U.S. refining industry to make sure companies were producing as much gasoline as they could and "not manipulating the amount of product flowing to the market."
In London, Brent crude for June delivery at the ICE Futures exchange also hit an all-time high of $72.64 a barrel, before easing back to settle at $72.51, an increase of $1.05 and a record close.
Gasoline futures Tuesday rose 5.42 cents to close at $2.2239 a gallon while heating oil futures gained 2.79 cents to settle at $2.0508 a gallon. Natural gas futures rose 43.1 cents to settle at $8.008 per 1,000 cubic feet.
___
AP Business Writer Jane Wardell in London contributed to this report.
Quote:
Killconey said:
Just because it sucked then, doesn't mean that it doesn't suck now. Gas prices are way to fucking high and they need to go back down again. Maybe consumerism or ethanol will sweep down and save us, but it still sucks for now and as long as life sucks, bitching will happen.
Before you ask, I'm 24 and remember absolutely nothing from the 70s.
Its funny you should mention Ethanol.
It's said that the price increase is not related to terrorism or refinery shut downs, etc.
Its actually due to the new emission requirements. A lot of the additives that are currently used in gasoline are being replaced with ethanol, and the processes to create and transport ethanol are not developed.
In theory, as we get better at making ehanol, the prices should at least stablize. Maybe drop.
But as Netou said....it'll hit $3.60 first.
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/mar2006/bw20060329_074307.htm?chan=autos_autos+index+page_ news
Just saying.
And sorry if this is a re-post.
Quote:
Illegal Machine said:
It's said that the price increase is not related to terrorism or refinery shut downs, etc.
Its actually due to the new emission requirements. A lot of the additives that are currently used in gasoline are being replaced with ethanol, and the processes to create and transport ethanol are not developed.
Gasoline Shortages Reported on East Coast
Some gasoline distribution terminals from Virginia to Massachusetts are seeing shortages as the industry phases out a water-polluting additive, the U.S. Energy Department said on Thursday.
The Energy Department has reported shortages at terminals near Richmond, Virginia, as well as the Tidewater area near Chesapeake Bay and Virginia Beach which distribute gasoline to service stations.
Northern Virginia, Baltimore and Boston are also seeing shortages, the department's Office of Electricity Delivery and Energy Reliability said.
The Baltimore-Washington, D.C. area has some of the highest retail gasoline prices in the country, with pump prices above $3 a gallon at many stations for regular unleaded fuel.
The shortages are not because refiners are not making enough gasoline, or because of a recent rupture on the key Plantation Pipeline that carries supplies from the Gulf Coast to the East Coast, industry officials said.
Rather, the oil industry is rapidly eliminating a gasoline additive called MTBE, banned in several states for polluting ground water, and replacing it with ethanol, a renewable fuel that can't be shipped by pipeline because it absorbs water.
Because ethanol is a solvent, it will strip corrosion and impurities that build up inside gasoline storage tanks, allowing them to mingle with gasoline supplies,
That means terminal operators must drain giant tanks that hold gasoline stocks and scrub out the impurities before they can be refilled with ethanol-enriched gasoline.
I'm not hearing a lot about this on the news, are you guys? I mean, it makes sence. Ethanol prices are rising and MTBE prices are falling.
See, everything is going to be ok in a couple of months....until prices go up again!
Quote:
Oil Rises to a Record $75.35 on concern about Iran and Nigeria
April 21 (Bloomberg) -- Crude oil rose to a record $75.35 a barrel in New York on concern that shipments from Iran and Nigeria will be disrupted as the U.S. increases output of gasoline for the summer driving season.
The dispute over Iran's nuclear program has intensified, increasing the chances of sanctions against the world's fourth- biggest oil producer. Rebel attacks in Nigeria have shut about 20 percent of output in Africa's biggest oil producer. Oil was pulled lower in early trading on speculation that refiners will increase output because of improved profit margins.
``Any kind of supply disruption will send us up toward $100,'' said Peter Schiff, chief executive officer of Darien, Connecticut-based brokerage Euro Pacific Capital, whose clients have about $400 million in accounts at the firm. ``Even without a hiccup we will see prices rise because of the supply-demand imbalances.''
Crude oil for June delivery rose $1.48, or 2 percent, to $75.17 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange, the highest close since trading began in 1983. Futures touched $75.35 a barrel, an intraday record. The May contract, which expired yesterday, reached records the last three days. Prices are 39 percent higher than a year ago.
``The suppliers of the world are having great difficulty keeping up with demand,'' Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman said at a conference in Washington. ``This is a tax, if you will, on economic activity. This is a horrific burden on American families.''
U.S. stocks declined as oil prices climbed this afternoon. The jump in energy prices may bolster inflation, increasing the likelihood that the Federal Reserve Bank will boost its benchmark interest rate.
``If crude oil remains at this level or moves higher the moderate slowing of the economy could'' intensify, said Jason Schenker, an economist at Wachovia Corp. in Charlotte, North Carolina.
Inflation Adjusted Prices
Oil prices more than doubled in 1979 after a revolution in Iran slashed the nation's oil exports. By February 1981 U.S. refiners were paying an average $39 a barrel for imported oil, according to Energy Department figures, or $86.88 in 2006 dollars.
``This is similar to the 1970s when there was a permanent readjustment in oil prices,'' Schiff said.
Iran has defied the United Nations by enriching enough uranium to fuel a nuclear reactor. Russia yesterday rejected a call from the U.S. to halt construction of a nuclear plant in Iran to put pressure on the Persian Gulf country to stop its nuclear enrichment program. The plant should be completed by the end of this year.
Can't Halt Program
``The U.S. is incapable of doing anything to stop Iran's nuclear program,'' said Mordechai Abir, director of energy research at Burnham Securities Inc. in New York. ``The U.S. is not going to attack Iran so there is no reason for the Iranians to use their oil weapon. This crisis is being driven by words and has added $10 to $15 to the cost of oil.''
Concern that Iran might reduce shipments if sanctions are imposed has helped bolster prices 23 percent this year.
Oil prices would soar to $100 a barrel if the U.S. attacks Iran in a dispute over the country's nuclear program, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said yesterday.
``An invasion of Iran would end what little stability exists in the Middle East,'' Chavez told reporters in Brazil in remarks broadcast by the state television channel. ``The price of oil could reach $100.''
Brent crude oil for June settlement rose $1.39, or 1.9 percent, to $74.57 a barrel on the London-based ICE Futures exchange, the highest close since the contract began trading in 1988. Futures touched $74.79 a barrel, an intraday record.
Nigerian Oil
The Movement for the Emancipation of the Niger Delta rejected a plan announced by the Nigerian government to increase development in the Niger River delta. The group threatened new attacks on oil companies this week. About 500,000 barrels a day of Nigeria's output remains shut, Oil Minister Edmund Daukoru said on April 18.
``The Nigerian government doesn't have the ability to control the region and will have to give the rebels what they want if the oil is to come back,'' Abir said. ``It doesn't look like we will be seeing this highly sought-after oil anytime soon.''
Nigerian oil is prized by refiners because of the amount of gasoline it yields.
Prices have also surged on speculation that U.S. gasoline stockpiles will be insufficient when consumption accelerates in the summer months. Gasoline stockpiles plunged 5.4 million barrels last week, the seventh-straight weekly decline, the Energy Department reported on April 19.
G-man, remember what I said about political stability and commodity prices in Africa in another thread?
Yes, to which I replied by asking if that doesn't then mean you're justifying war for oil.
Gas is now $3.10 a gallon in Pa...and it is also $3.03., $2.99, and $2.95...What is it where everyone else lives? I have heard it's higher in the south... And yes, I am aware of some Gas stations closing down, too...
It just went down to $2.79 here this morning. I'm gonna fill up anyway.
Quote:
the G-man said:
Yes, to which I replied by asking if that doesn't then mean you're justifying war for oil.
I never advocated any war. My position has consistently been that a military intervention would be a foolish undertaking (remember the too big map of Sudan?). The post you refer to was in support of my Congresswoman's call for a diplomatic initiative in Africa.
American SpectatorThe federal gas tax was first imposed in 1932. It was only 1 cent per gallon, and it was supposed to be temporary. It wasn't. From 1959 to 1981 it stayed at 4 cents a gallon. But in 1982 the federal government got hot for mass transit. Since then the federal gas tax has risen from 4 cents a gallon to 18.4 cents, or 360 percent, the Tax Foundation has noted.
According to the Energy Information Agency, almost a quarter of the price of a gallon of gas goes to taxes. Refining costs and oil company profits combined make up less than 20 percent. (Those percentages will be slightly smaller now, with prices having risen so fast in the past month.)
But the EIA does not include some local taxes in that count. The Tax Foundation and the American Petroleum Institute found last fall that taxes accounted for 45.9 cents of the cost of each gallon of gas. That's a United States average, the total differs state to state. It ranged from 26.4 cents in Alaska to 60 cents in California.
Just three years ago, Congress was considering raising the federal gasoline tax from 18.4 cents a gallon to 24.4 cents. Two years ago, Rep. Don Young, R-Alaska, proposed raising the gas tax by 5.45 cents a gallon to 23.85 cents. He wanted more money for pork. Now, of course, such a proposal would be political suicide.
Quote:
PJP said:
Our piece of shit representatives in Washington DC are trying to find solutions to the high gas prices. Both Republicans and Democrats are full of shit and assholes.
I bet we could come up with some solutions that will be effective and more productive without all the beauracratic bullshit. Please try to keep this non partisan since both parties are equally to blame.
Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Considering that Democrats are the miniority party how are they equally to blame? (asking in a non partisan way ) 
the Wall St Journal
In fact, [the] Democrats in the Senate--the very crowd shouting the loudest about "obscene" gas prices--have voted uniformly for nearly 20 years against allowing most domestic oil production. They have vetoed opening even a tiny portion of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in Alaska to oil and gas production. If there is as much oil as the U.S. Geological Survey estimates, this would increase America's proven domestic oil reserves by about 50%.
They have also voted against producing oil from the Outer Continental Shelf, where there are more supplies by some estimates than in Saudi Arabia. Environmental objections seem baseless given that even the high winds and waves of Hurricane Katrina didn't cause oil spills in the Gulf of Mexico.
In the 1970s the environmentalists and their followers in Congress even protested building the Alaska pipeline, which today supplies nearly one million barrels of oil a day. If they've discovered some new law of economics in which a fall in output with rising demand can cause a reduction in price, we'd love to hear it.
The dirty little secret about oil politics is that today's high gas price is precisely the policy result that ...liberals have long desired. High prices have been the prod that the left has favored to persuade Americans to abandon their SUVs and minivans, use mass transit, turn the thermostat down, produce less consumer goods and services, and stop emitting those satanic greenhouse gases.
Scan the Web sites of the major environmental groups and you will find long tracts on the evils of fossil fuels and how wonderful it would be if only selfish Americans were more like the enlightened and eco-friendly Europeans. You will find plenty of articles with titles such as: "More Taxes Please: Why the Price of Gas Is too Low."
However, you can be sure you won't hear that from Democrats or Northeastern Republicans on Capitol Hill--at least not in public. Far from it. They're suddenly all for cutting gasoline prices, just as long as that doesn't require producing a single additional barrel of oil.
So how do the sages on Capitol Hill propose to reduce gas prices? They want to slap a profits tax on Big Oil because of alleged price gouging. Here we have another head-scratcher that seems to defy even junior-high-school economics. Usually when you tax something, like tobacco, you get less of it. But somehow a tax on oil will magically lead to more oil.
As a Harvard study has shown, when the U.S. imposed a windfall profits tax in 1980, prices rose to an inflation-adjusted range even higher than today, and domestic production fell. As for claims of "gouging," the price of gasoline at the pump in the U.S. has risen 25% less than the rise in the global price of crude oil since 2003, according to Wall Street economist Michael Darda.
We've also heard proposals to force the oil companies to cut the pay of their CEOs to $500,000. That's about what Kobe Bryant makes for a handful of basketball games, but even if the salaries were chopped to this level--and all of the savings passed on to consumers--the gas price would fall by at most one-tenth of a penny. In any case, CEO pay is an issue to be resolved by shareholders, not Congress.
I hate to burst your bubble g-man but taxes dont really have alot to do with the price of gas. i live on the border of ohio/ky, and close to indiana, gas costs roughly the same withing 2 or 3 cents, ohios tax is 24 cents p gallaon,ky 16, indiana 18, why are pump prices the same? not taxes. the oil companies have found the ceiling they can charge and do, if it wasnt gouging i could get gas 8 cents cheaper a gallon in ky.
if you took away the federal tax thye would still find the ceiling people were willing to pay and charge that.
Quote:
britneyspearsatemyshorts said:
I hate to burst your bubble g-man but taxes dont really have alot to do with the price of gas. i live on the border of ohio/ky, and close to indiana, gas costs roughly the same withing 2 or 3 cents, ohios tax is 24 cents p gallaon,ky 16, indiana 18, why are pump prices the same? not taxes. the oil companies have found the ceiling they can charge and do, if it wasnt gouging i could get gas 8 cents cheaper a gallon in ky.
if you took away the federal tax thye would still find the ceiling people were willing to pay and charge that.
That's because you do live near a boarder and they're going to charge the market price. The nationwide average profit per gallon of gassoline is 9 cents. The federal tax per gallon is 50 cents. Also local stations decide thier own prices. The oil companies dont set prices for individual stations, so that doesnt rule out gouging on a case by case basis.
well thats not true, my sons mother lives in the middle of the state and when we drop him off there it is the same. indianapolis has the same as well on the occassions we go there. i see the border prices on a daily basis, but weekly and monthly i travel farther into the states and it is the same.
but you proved my point, theyll charge what the market will let them which is gougung, so thanks for the backup.
also you are talking about local stations gouging, my point is that the big oil companies charge the locals not based on cost but what they can get by with. im sure the local stations are only making 9 cents a gallon. my point is obviously the oil company is charging the local the difference in state and local tax in the 3 states.
Quote:
britneyspearsatemyshorts said:
I hate to burst your bubble g-man but taxes dont really have alot to do with the price of gas. i live on the border of ohio/ky, and close to indiana, gas costs roughly the same withing 2 or 3 cents, ohios tax is 24 cents p gallon, ky 16, indiana 18, why are pump prices the same? not taxes. the oil companies have found the ceiling they can charge and do, if it wasnt gouging i could get gas 8 cents cheaper a gallon in ky.
The neither proves nor disproves my point.
No one, least of all me, has claimed that taxes are the only factor in the cost of gas. The only thing we've pointed out is that it is a factor, and one that businesses have virtually no control over.
Also, an eight cents per gallon markup is not "gouging." "Price gouging" means a dramatic increase in the price of a commodity or good. Eight cents a gallon is a fairly small increase, percentage-wise, and approximately half (or less) the cost of the tax, which you claim to be insignificant.
You are, correct, however, when you imply that companies will charge whatever the market will allow, which is, of course, the basic law of supply and demand.
the oil companies are gouging not the local guy. and ive proved taxes are almost zero factor. you take away the tax and it goes to the oil company not us. this is proven by visual fact, not youre conjecture.
Quote:
britneyspearsatemyshorts said:
the oil companies are gouging not the local guy. and ive proved taxes are almost zero factor. you take away the tax and it goes to the oil company not us. this is proven by visual fact, not your conjecture.
Way back over a year ago, when this thread started, I posted a chart listing the various factors that contribute to the cost of a gallon of gas.
Taxes were one factor. Other factors included the cost of distribution, marketing and refining, as well as the cost of the crude oil itself.
Over the past few months taxes have remained stable. So, therefore, you are correct, insofar as taxes aren't driving the current price hikes.
However, as noted above, there is more to the cost of gasoline than taxes and profits. Therefore, the mere fact that taxes are stable doesn't mean that profits are the only reason for the rise.
Fox example, on the factors noted above was refining costs. Recently, there was a spike in refining costs, because the government mandated the refineries switch to a different mix of gas/ethanol and because a number of refineries were shut down by Katrina.
Another factor was the rise in cost of crude oil. With China using more crude, for example, there was less oil to go around. Less supply means higher costs.
Also you need to remember that much of the cost of crude oil goes to the suppliers. The suppliers are not the oil companies, but OPEC (for example). So telling, say, Exxon to lower its prices doesn't mean a thing since we can't tell OPEC to lower the price it charges Exxon.
Getting back to taxes: The reason taxes are important is that they are the one part of the price that IS set by the government and, therefore, the one part of the price the government can immediately control. The other factors are the ones noted above.
Granted, if the government cut all the taxes and the price stayed exactly the same, then you might have proof of "gouging." However, until you eliminate all the variables in any equation, not just one, any conclusion you arrive at is, at best, conjecture.
Quote:
britneyspearsatemyshorts said:
the oil companies are gouging not the local guy. and ive proved taxes are almost zero factor. you take away the tax and it goes to the oil company not us. this is proven by visual fact, not youre conjecture.
It's not the local stations that earn 9 cents on the gallon, that's the oil companys profits. So if we decided to make it illegal for gas companies to earn a profit we would effectively lower gas by 9 cents. At 20 gallons a week that's 1.80 a week. Of coarse that's if we completely outlawed profit. If the oil companies made no profit, guess what? They would stop providing us with oil.
It's also important to note that while the oil companies have seen an increase in profits to coincide with with increased demand, they haven't seen much of an increase in thier profit margins.
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
It's not the local stations that earn 9 cents on the gallon, that's the oil companys profits. So if we decided to make it illegal for gas companies to earn a profit we would effectively lower gas by 9 cents. At 20 gallons a week that's 1.80 a week. Of coarse that's if we completely outlawed profit. If the oil companies made no profit, guess what? They would stop providing us with oil.
this is going in my "WBAM Bible."
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
britneyspearsatemyshorts said:
the oil companies are gouging not the local guy. and ive proved taxes are almost zero factor. you take away the tax and it goes to the oil company not us. this is proven by visual fact, not youre conjecture.
It's not the local stations that earn 9 cents on the gallon, that's the oil companys profits. So if we decided to make it illegal for gas companies to earn a profit we would effectively lower gas by 9 cents. At 20 gallons a week that's 1.80 a week. Of coarse that's if we completely outlawed profit. If the oil companies made no profit, guess what? They would stop providing us with oil.
It's also important to note that while the oil companies have seen an increase in profits to coincide with with increased demand, they haven't seen much of an increase in thier profit margins.
What strange alignment of the planets has brought this about? I agree with WBAM. I would add that oil companies lose money, too. Check out the period between 1983 and 1993 on Bloomberg. They shut down production because it was not economic to keep them open.
What caused prices to fall? You and I. Consumers cut back and became more efficient. When everyone dumps their SUVs for a new Prius, prices will drop.
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r3x29yz4a said:
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wannabuyamonkey said:
It's not the local stations that earn 9 cents on the gallon, that's the oil companys profits. So if we decided to make it illegal for gas companies to earn a profit we would effectively lower gas by 9 cents. At 20 gallons a week that's 1.80 a week. Of coarse that's if we completely outlawed profit. If the oil companies made no profit, guess what? They would stop providing us with oil.
this is going in my "WBAM Bible."
I'm glad your keeping information like this collected somewhere so you can refer to it later. It may help you understand your world better someday.
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wannabuyamonkey said:
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r3x29yz4a said:
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wannabuyamonkey said:
It's not the local stations that earn 9 cents on the gallon, that's the oil companys profits. So if we decided to make it illegal for gas companies to earn a profit we would effectively lower gas by 9 cents. At 20 gallons a week that's 1.80 a week. Of coarse that's if we completely outlawed profit. If the oil companies made no profit, guess what? They would stop providing us with oil.
this is going in my "WBAM Bible."
I'm glad your keeping information like this collected somewhere so you can refer to it later. It may help you understand your world better someday.
My world doesn't slap its wife around, so I'm not sure what insight I'll get.
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r3x29yz4a said:
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wannabuyamonkey said:
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r3x29yz4a said:
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wannabuyamonkey said:
It's not the local stations that earn 9 cents on the gallon, that's the oil companys profits. So if we decided to make it illegal for gas companies to earn a profit we would effectively lower gas by 9 cents. At 20 gallons a week that's 1.80 a week. Of coarse that's if we completely outlawed profit. If the oil companies made no profit, guess what? They would stop providing us with oil.
this is going in my "WBAM Bible."
I'm glad your keeping information like this collected somewhere so you can refer to it later. It may help you understand your world better someday.
My world doesn't slap its wife around, so I'm not sure what insight I'll get.
Hmm, I'll add that to me list of Ray "facts".
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wannabuyamonkey said:
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r3x29yz4a said:
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wannabuyamonkey said:
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r3x29yz4a said:
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wannabuyamonkey said:
It's not the local stations that earn 9 cents on the gallon, that's the oil companys profits. So if we decided to make it illegal for gas companies to earn a profit we would effectively lower gas by 9 cents. At 20 gallons a week that's 1.80 a week. Of coarse that's if we completely outlawed profit. If the oil companies made no profit, guess what? They would stop providing us with oil.
this is going in my "WBAM Bible."
I'm glad your keeping information like this collected somewhere so you can refer to it later. It may help you understand your world better someday.
My world doesn't slap its wife around, so I'm not sure what insight I'll get.
Hmm, I'll add that to me list of Ray "facts".
http://www.rkmbs.com/...true#Post703702
Its "Ray facts," not Ray "facts."
Stop flip flopping
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r3x29yz4a said:
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wannabuyamonkey said:
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r3x29yz4a said:
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wannabuyamonkey said:
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r3x29yz4a said:
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wannabuyamonkey said:
It's not the local stations that earn 9 cents on the gallon, that's the oil companys profits. So if we decided to make it illegal for gas companies to earn a profit we would effectively lower gas by 9 cents. At 20 gallons a week that's 1.80 a week. Of coarse that's if we completely outlawed profit. If the oil companies made no profit, guess what? They would stop providing us with oil.
this is going in my "WBAM Bible."
I'm glad your keeping information like this collected somewhere so you can refer to it later. It may help you understand your world better someday.
My world doesn't slap its wife around, so I'm not sure what insight I'll get.
Hmm, I'll add that to me list of Ray "facts".
http://www.rkmbs.com/...true#Post703702
Its "Ray facts," not Ray "facts."
Stop flip flopping
Acctually, I've reorginised my filing system. It's now "Ray 'facts'"
Maybe it should be "Ray
lies"?
But seriously....gas prices are going up because, as Jay noted, demand has gone up and supply has gone down. That's basic economics, nothing more, nothing less.
There isn't much the government can do for a quick fix...except lower the taxes on the product.
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the G-man said:
Maybe it should be "Ray lies"?
uh, i posted an article you disagreed with and then blasted me for posting an editorial (ie. opinionated piece).
you then posted proof from "opinion"journal.com and then went on to start a million threads from "opinion"journal.com
3 words
Peak Oil Production
It's all your fault, you americans!!
I'd say it was the chinese's fault too, but it's political incorrect to pick on asians
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r3x29yz4a said:
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the G-man said:
Maybe it should be "Ray lies"?
uh, i posted an article you disagreed with and then blasted me for posting an editorial (ie. opinionated piece).
you then posted proof from "opinion"journal.com and then went on to start a million threads from "opinion"journal.com
Funny how that works isn't it.
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Chant said:
It's all your fault, you americans!!
I'd say it was the chinese's fault too, but it's political incorrect to pick on asians
However, if we in the US actually did cut back on gas guzzlers, then you would be able to blame China. Unless you would prefer to blame OPEC. That would be up to you. But the first blame goes to those who put their useless SUV's over the price of gas for everyone else.
The needs of the many outway the needs of the few, but the few are assholes, and their needs obviously come first in the 21st century.
Poll: More Drivers Feel Pinch at the PumpHigh pump prices are pinching the pocketbooks of seven in 10 Americans, a financial hardship that more middle- and higher-income drivers say they are beginning to feel, an AP-Ipsos poll found.
With gasoline prices topping $3 a gallon for regular unleaded in many areas, people say they are driving less, cutting short vacations and curtailing their use of heating and air conditioning.
The number of people who expect rising gas prices to cause financial problems in the months ahead has jumped from 51 percent a year ago to 70 percent now, according to AP polling. This increase has been dramatic among people who earn more than $50,000.
Analysts blame the higher prices on a tight worldwide supply, unstable politics in oil-producing countries, an inadequate number of U.S. refineries and delays in the U.S. in switching over to summer blends of fuel.
Whatever the reasons, soaring gas prices are affecting people's behavior.
Two-thirds of those surveyed said they have cut back on driving and have reduced the use of heating and air conditioning. One-half say they have trimmed vacation plans.
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Matter-eater Man said:
The current plans for immediate relief all tend to subdisise OPEC. I did see Pelosi talking about long term plans that sounded good to me....“Fourth, we recognize that only innovation and technology can lead America to energy independence. We should be spending America’s energy dollars in the Midwest, not in the Middle East."
President Bush has also been touting alternative fuel sources, such as ethanol and wind power.
Yet the only thing I see that most of the GOP has really pushed for in all this time is drilling in the Anwar. What is the party in charge willing to act on?
For example, Bush proposes to spend an initial $120 million on research, development and production for a promising ethanol-based fuel.
In addition, Republican governors are moving forward with plans to promote ethanol in the states.
This is not to denigrate Democrats who are making similar calls, simply a note that this seems to be a bi-partisan issue.
Hawaii Stops Gasoline Price ControlsHawaii's gasoline price controls have sputtered to a stop.
The island state whose drivers pay the highest pump prices in the nation has given up on price caps after an eight-month, first-in-the-nation experiment. Some complained that the restrictions actually led to higher prices
Gas is particularly expensive in Hawaii because of high state taxes and because of the costs of transporting oil across the Pacific. Last fall, Hawaii became the only state to cap the cost of fuel to try to give some relief to motorists.
One study by an economics professor showed the gas cap cost consumers 5 cents more per gallon. An analysis by the state Department of Business, Economic Development and Tourism estimated that island motorists paid $54.9 million more than they otherwise would have in the first five months under the cap.
House Votes to Keep Offshore Drilling BanDespite talk of an energy crisis and the need for independence from foreign oil, Congress seems to be in no mood to open more of the country's coastal waters to energy development.
The House late Thursday rejected an attempt to end the quarter-century ban on oil and natural gas drilling that has been in effect for 85 percent of the country's coastal waters from Alaska to New England despite arguments that new supplies are needed to lower energy costs.
Lawmakers from Florida and California, who led the fight to continue the drilling moratorium, said they feared energy projects as close as three miles from shore could jeopardize multibillion-dollar tourism industries in their states.
The failure of this attempt to lift the ban on offshore drilling is an atrocity.
First, it only applied to natural gas, not oil, and natural gas evaporates anyway so it doesn't cause oil slicks, etc.
Second, all the lifting of the ban would do is let states have the choice to opt out of the ban. So under the proposal, if Florida still wanted its precious little ban in place, it could keep it, even if the proposal passed -- but Virginia, which does want to let gas drilling occur, would have that option. What's so wrong with giving the states the option?!?
This just infuriates me.
Gas Prices Aren’t Deterring Summer TravelersNearly 38 million people will travel this Memorial Day weekend, and most of them will drive on America's roads and highways — a record number of travelers, according to AAA.
High gasoline prices? Not much of a problem, it seems.
"People are traveling just as much," said Philip Reed, the consumer advice editor at Edmunds.com, an automotive Web site. "There is much complaining about fuel prices, but there is still no substitute for the car and for the family vacation. That's a priority that people aren't willing to sacrifice yet."
By Labor Day, drivers will have logged more than 800 billion miles, or 8.6 billion miles a day, and will have consumed 36 billion gallons of fuel crisscrossing the United States, according to the Energy Department.
That is why Memorial Day to Labor Day accounts for the peak in gasoline consumption, why refineries have been scrambling to prepare in time and why gasoline imports have risen to near records to make up for shortfalls. Drivers seem undeterred.
And
that, my friends, is one of the reason for high gas prices: the demand for unneccessary travel.
GAS PRICE COULD FALL 60 CENTSThe pain at the pump is easing.
Analysts expect gas prices to plummet as much as 60 cents a gallon this week, as the summer driving seasons closes following Labor Day.
"Gas rises quickly on the way up, but it goes down a lot slower," said Peter Beutel, an energy analyst at Cameron Hanover. "Motorists can expect a knockoff to happen this week."
And analysts predict that pump prices may plunge toward the $2.40-a-gallon mark by early November
It's my fault
Gas prices always drop after the summer travel season.
Yes and they alwayse go up durring teh summer and yet you all seemed to blame THAT on Bush, so why can;t we give him credit for them going back down?
I didn't blame Bush for gas prices going up this summer so your just blowing hot air. You wanting to pretend gas prices went down because of Bush comes as no surprise to me though.
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Matter-eater Man said:
I didn't blame Bush for gas prices going up this summer...
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Matter-eater Man said on May 7:
Yet the only thing I see that most of the GOP has really pushed for in all this time is drilling in the Anwar. What is the party in charge willing to act on?
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the G-man said:
Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
I didn't blame Bush for gas prices going up this summer...
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Matter-eater Man said on May 7:
Yet the only thing I see that most of the GOP has really pushed for in all this time is drilling in the Anwar. What is the party in charge willing to act on?
So... MEM ignores facts and changes his position to suit the debate at hand. So what? All you've done is prove he's a consistant Dem.
To be fair, its possible that MEM is trying to say that he doesn't blame BushTM for the increase specifically caused by summer travel, but does for higher prices in general.
Quote:
the G-man said:
To be fair, its possible that MEM is trying to say that he doesn't blame Bush for the increase specifically caused by summer travel, but does for higher prices in general.
If you considered the context & note that I posted that back in May, it's more than possible. There are also other factors involved like China's increase in consumption that are really beyond blaming a political party for.
Gas prices did indeed decrease and fall under $3.00 in the Chicagoland area. They still suck, though. $2.89 my ass!
Killconey sighting!!!
$2.41 here.
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Killconey said:
Gas prices did indeed decrease and fall under $3.00 in the Chicagoland area. They still suck, though. $2.89 my ass!
$2.99 is the cheapest in my neighborhood, most other places haven't quite reached under $3, Meijer is the closest @ $3.05
2.88 by me! Though I'm sure it went up already.
Four months ago soaring gas prices
were President Bush's fault. Today, as we near the November election, they're falling, which
The Washington Post attributes to "good luck."
Energy prices are down, maybe heading even lower . . . and that's...
bad?
So writes columnist
Raymond Learsy today. He begins by citing that irrefutable authority, Al Gore, for the proposition that "we are near the tipping point of climatic catastrophe."
He next bemoans that "never or at least rarely ever, has there been a serious discussion on curtailing the availability of gasoline."
By all means, I'd encourage Democrats everywhere to run on
that platform!
Gas is about $2.10 in the Cleveland area and that's still too much. The cap on gas should be about $1.25 - $1.50. Enough to still feel it, especially in large vehicles, so you'd want to conserve and curtail unneccessary driving yet, not so much to severely penalize those with lower incomes or those that have no choice but to drive.
I've no credible suggestions on how to make this happen but, it's my .02.
Gas Station Who Gave Discounts to Elderly Ordered to Raise PricesA service station that offered discounted gas to senior citizens and people supporting youth sports has been ordered by the state to raise its prices.
Center City BP owner Raj Bhandari has been offering senior citizens a 2 cent per gallon price break and discount cards that let sports boosters pay 3 cents less per gallon. But the state Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection says those deals violate Wisconsin's Unfair Sales Act, which requires stations to sell gas for about 9.2 percent more than the wholesale price.
Bhandari said he received a letter from the state auditor last month saying the state would sue him if he did not raise his prices. The state could penalize him for each discounted gallon he sold, with the fine determined by a judge.
Taxes, including federal and local, account for about 31 percent of the total price of gas in the United States. Federal excise taxes are 18.4 cents per gallon, and state excise taxes average 20 cents per gallon. There may also be some additional state sales taxes, as well as local and city taxes. In Europe, gas prices are far higher than in America because taxes on gas are much higher. For example, gas prices in England have risen as high as $6 per gallon, with 78 percent of that going to taxes.
Gas prices also vary from state to state for several reasons. Taxes are probably the biggest factor in the different prices around the country.
wants a federal gas tax holiday from Memorial Day to Labor Day.
Hillary's amenable to the idea; Obama calls it a "bad idea."
of course he does.
so what does mr. obama recommend be done about elevating gas prices? tax the oil companies more? federal gas subsidy? put a ceiling on gas prices? does he have a plan or recommendation?
it's all fairly moot, anyway. the government always gets their money back from us. take away one tax, they'll raise others. there's only one real solution for this:
drilling.
what does mr. obama recommend be done about elevating gas prices? tax the oil companies more?
Both
Obama and
Clinton have floated the idea of raising taxes on gas and/or on oil companies, despite the fact that any such tax would be passed on to the consumer.
Economical analysts here in Europe state that the reason for the price of oil being so high at the moment is the continued devaluation of the US dollar.
A couple of months ago the dollar was worth some 7-8 danish kr. today it's around 4 DKK and 50 oere.
That ain't a lot, but it's okay, it only makes upgrading my computer that much cheaper.
Who's to blame? India, who else? Those damn red skins think just cause they are the 3rd largest democracy in the world they have the right to expand. Only AMERICA, by the grace of god, has the right to expand at the expense of others.
Where do those savages get off saying they were here first anyway? "Native" negro pah-lease.
In general - I blame those bleeding heart bastards who want to develop hybrid cars. Those dipshits keep making the general population increase the oil futures because they keep saying we're running out of oil.
there is no 'blame' to be placed. aside from blaming the govt for adding taxes onto gas but that's another topic. oil suppliers are a business. as such they should be allowed to set the price for their product.
And if Bush just put 10 billion barrels of oil from the reserve into the market, prices "should" drop significantly. But he had to pay for Jenna's wedding somehow, didn't he?
And if Bush just put 10 billion barrels of oil from the reserve into the market....
Point of informaton, the entire strategic oil reserve is only, at maximum,
one billion barrels. Accordingly, it would be impossible for any president to follow your suggestion.
whatever everyone knows there's tankers lined up in alaska but halliburton is holding them to keep prices artificially inflated.
Not to mention the tapped, but unused, oil reserves just sitting out there in the ocean.
Well don't blame me for that, god damnit, I'd be more then happy to go to war with Canada and those Russkies for the oil in the North Pole but those weak ass liberals don't want to go into a 3rd war. Pussies.
And if Bush just put 10 billion barrels of oil from the reserve into the market, prices "should" drop significantly. But he had to pay for Jenna's wedding somehow, didn't he?
omg, do you really believe that will solve anything? according to CIA World Fact Book, we have about
21billionbarrels proved reserves on hand.
http://www.fossil.energy.gov/programs/reserves/spr/spr-facts.htmlOil can be pumped from the Reserve at a maximum rate of 4.4 million barrels per day for up to 90 days, then the drawdown rate begins to decline as storage caverns are emptied. At 1 million barrels per day, the Reserve can release oil into the market continuously for nearly a year-and-a-half.
we consume 9,253,000 barrels/day (388.6 million gallons/day) gasoline per day.
so you think that releasing, what are essentially emergency reserves, that will last us about 3wks is going to have any measurable affect on the economy?
I say tough shit. people are and should just have to scale back their consumption to keep pace with rising prices. overindulgence, greed and laziness made their bed, now they have to lie in it. by that i mean the american populace.
And if Bush just put 10 billion barrels of oil from the reserve into the market, prices "should" drop significantly. But he had to pay for Jenna's wedding somehow, didn't he?
omg, do you really believe that will solve anything? according to CIA World Fact Book, we have about
21billionbarrels proved reserves on hand.
http://www.fossil.energy.gov/programs/reserves/spr/spr-facts.htmlOil can be pumped from the Reserve at a maximum rate of 4.4 million barrels per day for up to 90 days, then the drawdown rate begins to decline as storage caverns are emptied. At 1 million barrels per day, the Reserve can release oil into the market continuously for nearly a year-and-a-half.
we consume 9,253,000 barrels/day (388.6 million gallons/day) gasoline per day.
so you think that releasing, what are essentially emergency reserves, that will last us about 3wks is going to have any measurable affect on the economy?
I say tough shit. people are and should just have to scale back their consumption to keep pace with rising prices. overindulgence, greed and laziness made their bed, now they have to lie in it. by that i mean the american populace.
So much for G-man's point of information about one billion barrels.
My gas is nobodies business. Especially not the peons I rule over.
And if Bush just put 10 billion barrels of oil from the reserve into the market, prices "should" drop significantly. But he had to pay for Jenna's wedding somehow, didn't he?
omg, do you really believe that will solve anything? according to CIA World Fact Book, we have about
21billionbarrels proved reserves on hand.
http://www.fossil.energy.gov/programs/reserves/spr/spr-facts.htmlOil can be pumped from the Reserve at a maximum rate of 4.4 million barrels per day for up to 90 days, then the drawdown rate begins to decline as storage caverns are emptied. At 1 million barrels per day, the Reserve can release oil into the market continuously for nearly a year-and-a-half.
we consume 9,253,000 barrels/day (388.6 million gallons/day) gasoline per day.
so you think that releasing, what are essentially emergency reserves, that will last us about 3wks is going to have any measurable affect on the economy?
I say tough shit. people are and should just have to scale back their consumption to keep pace with rising prices. overindulgence, greed and laziness made their bed, now they have to lie in it. by that i mean the american populace.
So much for G-man's point of information about one billion barrels.
Yeah, G-man was totally wrong about having one billion barrels in the strategic oil reserves.
We only have about 703 million and we don't even have the capacity for one billion. # Highest inventory - On April 2, 2008, the SPR inventory exceeded 700 million barrels, the highest level ever previously held. The former record was reached in late August 2005, just days before Hurricane Katrina hit the Gulf Coast, causing the SPR to conduct emergency releases. Repayment of the Katrina loans and resumption of the RIK program (in 2007) has restored the inventory to its former level and beyond.
# Current storage capacity - 727 million barrels
I wonder if Whomod's Insurgency friend (or it could be Whomod himself; I neither know nor care) actually believed that "21 billion" nonsense or if he was actually trying to make a parody out of himself.
I wonder if Whomod's Insurgency friend (or it could be Whomod himself; I neither know nor care) actually believed that "21 billion" nonsense or if he was actually trying to make a parody out of himself.
Nonsense? I'm just going off what's in the link. You have info about that link you wanna share? Or are you yet another dellusional asshole on this board?
And if Bush just put 10 billion barrels of oil from the reserve into the market, prices "should" drop significantly. But he had to pay for Jenna's wedding somehow, didn't he?
omg, do you really believe that will solve anything? according to CIA World Fact Book, we have about
21billionbarrels proved reserves on hand.
http://www.fossil.energy.gov/programs/reserves/spr/spr-facts.htmlOil can be pumped from the Reserve at a maximum rate of 4.4 million barrels per day for up to 90 days, then the drawdown rate begins to decline as storage caverns are emptied. At 1 million barrels per day, the Reserve can release oil into the market continuously for nearly a year-and-a-half.
we consume 9,253,000 barrels/day (388.6 million gallons/day) gasoline per day.
so you think that releasing, what are essentially emergency reserves, that will last us about 3wks is going to have any measurable affect on the economy?
I say tough shit. people are and should just have to scale back their consumption to keep pace with rising prices. overindulgence, greed and laziness made their bed, now they have to lie in it. by that i mean the american populace.
So much for G-man's point of information about one billion barrels.
Yeah, G-man was totally wrong about having one billion barrels in the strategic oil reserves.
We only have about 703 million and we don't even have the capacity for one billion. # Highest inventory - On April 2, 2008, the SPR inventory exceeded 700 million barrels, the highest level ever previously held. The former record was reached in late August 2005, just days before Hurricane Katrina hit the Gulf Coast, causing the SPR to conduct emergency releases. Repayment of the Katrina loans and resumption of the RIK program (in 2007) has restored the inventory to its former level and beyond.
# Current storage capacity - 727 million barrels
Who's to say this link is anymore valid then the one posted before?
I wonder if Whomod's Insurgency friend (or it could be Whomod himself; I neither know nor care) actually believed that "21 billion" nonsense or if he was actually trying to make a parody out of himself.
umm, you do realize that there are several locations which can hold reserves, right? i mean, if you don't want to take what the CIA says, fine by me. frankly i was disappointed to know there might be 21billion on hand. actually, i'd rather there was only 700million or so barrels as that paints an even worse picture of the situation we are in. which is good, to my view. the sooner the economy collapses, the better. going by the daily consumption rate, we'll blow through the reserves in less than 2 days.
And if Bush just put 10 billion barrels of oil from the reserve into the market, prices "should" drop significantly. But he had to pay for Jenna's wedding somehow, didn't he?
omg, do you really believe that will solve anything? according to CIA World Fact Book, we have about
21billionbarrels proved reserves on hand.
http://www.fossil.energy.gov/programs/reserves/spr/spr-facts.htmlOil can be pumped from the Reserve at a maximum rate of 4.4 million barrels per day for up to 90 days, then the drawdown rate begins to decline as storage caverns are emptied. At 1 million barrels per day, the Reserve can release oil into the market continuously for nearly a year-and-a-half.
we consume 9,253,000 barrels/day (388.6 million gallons/day) gasoline per day.
so you think that releasing, what are essentially emergency reserves, that will last us about 3wks is going to have any measurable affect on the economy?
I say tough shit. people are and should just have to scale back their consumption to keep pace with rising prices. overindulgence, greed and laziness made their bed, now they have to lie in it. by that i mean the american populace.
So much for G-man's point of information about one billion barrels.
Point of clarification: please re-read my earlier post. The one billion figure is the maximum contemplated. It is not the amount currently stored, or even the amount we currently have the capacity to store. It is simply the current maximum allowed by law.
In either event, it remains the case that the SOR is far too small to follow the course of action I was responding to.
And if Bush just put 10 billion barrels of oil from the reserve into the market, prices "should" drop significantly. But he had to pay for Jenna's wedding somehow, didn't he?
omg, do you really believe that will solve anything? according to CIA World Fact Book, we have about
21billionbarrels proved reserves on hand.
http://www.fossil.energy.gov/programs/reserves/spr/spr-facts.htmlOil can be pumped from the Reserve at a maximum rate of 4.4 million barrels per day for up to 90 days, then the drawdown rate begins to decline as storage caverns are emptied. At 1 million barrels per day, the Reserve can release oil into the market continuously for nearly a year-and-a-half.
we consume 9,253,000 barrels/day (388.6 million gallons/day) gasoline per day.
so you think that releasing, what are essentially emergency reserves, that will last us about 3wks is going to have any measurable affect on the economy?
I say tough shit. people are and should just have to scale back their consumption to keep pace with rising prices. overindulgence, greed and laziness made their bed, now they have to lie in it. by that i mean the american populace.
So much for G-man's point of information about one billion barrels.
Yeah, G-man was totally wrong about having one billion barrels in the strategic oil reserves.
We only have about 703 million and we don't even have the capacity for one billion. # Highest inventory - On April 2, 2008, the SPR inventory exceeded 700 million barrels, the highest level ever previously held. The former record was reached in late August 2005, just days before Hurricane Katrina hit the Gulf Coast, causing the SPR to conduct emergency releases. Repayment of the Katrina loans and resumption of the RIK program (in 2007) has restored the inventory to its former level and beyond.
# Current storage capacity - 727 million barrels
Who's to say this link is anymore valid then the one posted before?
I have no idea what the other link is using as it's mode of collecting information. It seems it may be based on capped oil wells and their estimated capacity rather than actual barrels of oil held in the strategic reserve as the number I've shown indicates as it's actually from the gov. agency responsible for such counts. It's also closer to the number given in
recent AP articles.
I have no idea what the other link is using as it's mode of collecting information. It seems it may be based on capped oil wells and their estimated capacity rather than actual barrels of oil held in the strategic reserve as the number I've shown indicates as it's actually from the gov. agency responsible for such counts. It's also closer to the number given in
recent AP articles. yeah, the numbers given by the CIA might include what is in reserves and the various places you mentioned. if it's really as low as 700million barrels, that is barely a drop in the bucket as opposed to what we consume as a nation. i'm sure though, in time of emergency, that the govt most likely appropriates the reserves and distributes it according to what they consider necessary. i highly doubt those reserves make it into the general populace in time of emergency.
Depends upon the emergency.
* June 2006 - exchanged 750 thousand barrels of sour crude with ConocoPhillips and Citgo due to the closure for several days of the Calcasieu Ship Channel to maritime traffic. The closure resulted from the release of a mixture of storm water and oil. Action was taken to avert temporary shutdown of both refineries.
* January 2006 - exchanged 767 thousand barrels of sour crude with Total Petrochemicals USA due to closure of the Sabine Neches ship channel to deep-draft vessels after a barge accident in the channel. Action was taken to avert temporary shutdown of the refinery.
* Sep/Oct 2005- exchanged 9.8 million barrels of sweet and sour crude due to disruptions in Gulf of Mexico production and damage to terminals, pipelines and refineries caused by Hurricane Katrina.
* Sep/Nov 2004 - exchanged 5.4 milliion barrels of sweet crude due to disruptions in the Gulf of Mexico caused by Hurricane Ivan.
* Sep/Oct 2004 - exchanged 5.4 million barrels in response to physical shortages of crude oil supplies in the Gulf of Mexico following Hurricane Ivan.
* Oct 2002 - exchanged 296,000 barrels with Shell Pipeline Co. to secure Capline storage tanks in advance of Hurricane Lili.
* Sep/Oct 2000 - exchanged 30 million barrels in response to concern over low distillate levels in Northeast.
* July/August 2000 - exchanged 2.8 million barrels of crude oil for 1st-year tank storage and stocks for 2 million barrel Northeast Home Heating Oil Reserve.
* June 2000 - exchanged 500,000 barrels each with CITGO and Conoco, due to blockage of the ship channel that allowed incoming crude oil shipments to those refineries. Action taken in order to avert temporary shutdown of both refineries.
* August 1998 - exchanged 11 million barrels of lower quality Maya crude in SPR with PEMEX for 8.5 million of higher quality crude (more suitable for U.S. refineries)
* April/May 1996 - exchanged 900,000 barrels of SPR crude with ARCO to resolve company's pipeline blockage problem.
Don't worry, we'll have plenty of oil soon as we nuke everybody else. Not sure what we'll do with it since we all be dead from the radiation...but hey, as long as America's #1!
I wonder if Whomod's Insurgency friend (or it could be Whomod himself; I neither know nor care) actually believed that "21 billion" nonsense or if he was actually trying to make a parody out of himself.
umm, you do realize that there are several locations which can hold reserves, right? i mean, if you don't want to take what the CIA says, fine by me. frankly i was disappointed to know there might be 21billion on hand. actually, i'd rather there was only 700million or so barrels as that paints an even worse picture of the situation we are in. which is good, to my view. the sooner the economy collapses, the better. going by the daily consumption rate, we'll blow through the reserves in less than 2 days.
I know you're trying to make a back-handed comeback in covering up the fact that your link is dated more than 2 years ago, but your attempt to sound anarchist just makes you look even more pathetic. Sorry.
I wonder if Whomod's Insurgency friend (or it could be Whomod himself; I neither know nor care) actually believed that "21 billion" nonsense or if he was actually trying to make a parody out of himself.
umm, you do realize that there are several locations which can hold reserves, right? i mean, if you don't want to take what the CIA says, fine by me. frankly i was disappointed to know there might be 21billion on hand. actually, i'd rather there was only 700million or so barrels as that paints an even worse picture of the situation we are in. which is good, to my view. the sooner the economy collapses, the better. going by the daily consumption rate, we'll blow through the reserves in less than 2 days.
I know you're trying to make a back-handed comeback in covering up the fact that your link is dated more than 2 years ago, but your attempt to sound anarchist just makes you look even more pathetic. Sorry.
oh is that what i was attempting to do?
so are you in favor of govt intervention to fix gas prices? or are you more interested in calling names than discussing this issue?
I'm more in favor of the government staying out the business of citizens private or otherwise.
I'm more in favor of the government staying out the business of citizens private or otherwise.
Well...I-I used to be too...but that all changed after 9/11!!!!!!
Just like national security and my underwear draw.
I'm more in favor of the government staying out the business of citizens private or otherwise.
finally common ground. if that's ur view, why use 'anarchists' as a derogatory term? confusing.
Probably because a lot of (though certainly not all) "anarchists" claim to want anarchy only to the extent it doesn't interfere with the prompt delivery of public services, the regulation of business and government handouts.
Probably because a lot of (though certainly not all) "anarchists" claim to want anarchy only to the extent it doesn't interfere with the prompt delivery of public services, the regulation of business and government handouts.
that doesn't make sense. isn't the goal of anarchists the eradication of govt? or are ppl confusing anarchists with socialists?
No. I think some socialists confuse themselves with anarchists. They listened to the Sex Pistols, thought it was "cool" and desclared themselves "anarchists," while still demanding what boils down to socialism.
No. I think some socialists confuse themselves with anarchists. They listened to the Sex Pistols, thought it was "cool" and desclared themselves "anarchists," while still demanding what boils down to socialism.
good point.
If 655321 is, in fact, a female...looks like pariah may have himself a girlfriend. If she likes transvestite hentai, I hear wedding bells...
i'd rather drink bleach, kthx.
If you want to make money off the current gas prices, go invest in Chevron. They pay dividends to shareholders.
If 655321 is, in fact, a female...looks like pariah may have himself a girlfriend. If she likes transvestite hentai, I hear wedding bells...
....The wheels are turning....
i'd rather drink bleach, kthx.
This ones a keeper, pariah...she's trying to kill her gag reflex.
Though, in you case, it's probably not necessary.
We pay higher and higher gasoline prices so the oil companies can plow their modest profits back into research and development.
MWHAHAHAHA!!!
Sorry, that bullshit came out of this week's hearings on gasoline prices.
I don't know about you guys but after seeing this guys signature I'm gonna change my vote to our lord and savior, obama H christ.
The Financial
Post:
- the biggest reason prices have been soaring is that investors are now understanding the future supply and demand reality.
The demand side China and India are undertaking a Marshall Plan every two years, building massive infrastructure, urbanizing their populations and industrializing. The Beijing Olympics will open the world's eyes to what is going on there this summer. Recent estimates are that in the next 17 years, about 300 million Chinese living in rural areas will be moved to cities which have yet to be built. They will want roads, cars, buildings and streetlights. The equivalent of five New Yorks, and some 50,000 skyscrapers, are on the drawing boards. Already, some 174 subway systems are under construction and a power plant is completed every month. There are already 200 cities in China bigger than Dallas. In addition are the economic development plans underway in Brazil, Central Europe, the Middle East and other parts of Asia. More than half of the world economy is now located in emerging, or poorer, countries.
The Financial
Post:
- the biggest reason prices have been soaring is that investors are now understanding the future supply and demand reality.
The demand side China and India are undertaking a Marshall Plan every two years, building massive infrastructure, urbanizing their populations and industrializing. The Beijing Olympics will open the world's eyes to what is going on there this summer. Recent estimates are that in the next 17 years, about 300 million Chinese living in rural areas will be moved to cities which have yet to be built. They will want roads, cars, buildings and streetlights. The equivalent of five New Yorks, and some 50,000 skyscrapers, are on the drawing boards. Already, some 174 subway systems are under construction and a power plant is completed every month. There are already 200 cities in China bigger than Dallas. In addition are the economic development plans underway in Brazil, Central Europe, the Middle East and other parts of Asia. More than half of the world economy is now located in emerging, or poorer, countries.
Big Oil has never before orchestrated a fuel crisis for their personal gain.
Except that time in the 70's.
If by "Big Oil" you mean the Muslim/Arab nations that comprise "OPEC," then you are largely correct. The 1973 energy crisis was due to the Arab countries cutting production and refusing to ship to nations that supported Israel.
If, however, by "Big Oil" you mean the corporations that receive oil from sources such as OPEC (ie, Shell, Mobil, Exxon, etc.), you are incorrect. They were at the mercy of OPEC, the same as everyone else.
Furthermore, the "crisis" was exacerbated when the government imposed price controls and rationing in a typical kneejerk populist response, further reducing supply.
...they supplied most of the world with its oil. Therefore, by simple economics, the cut in the supply of oil without the same cut in demand caused the price of oil to drive up globally.
Please do your homework before you post.
Actually, I did. The Big Book of the '70's from Paradox Press [says that] in the 70's, the government's general accounting office found that oil companies overcharged the consumer by at least $2 billion.
You...just...cited....a
comic book....as your source for your claim?
Good plan, Snarf. I assume you also think those oil companies were owned by Tony Stark, Lex Luthor and Bruce Wayne?
But, seriously, you seem to have misread your comic book, or it misstated the timeline of your comic book's allegation.
The finding that oil companies "overcharged" was not a finding that the oil companies caused the oil shortage, nor was it a finding that the companies' "overcharges" were the direct result of the shortage.
After the oil crisis began, the Nixon administration and congress made the boneheaded decision to impose price controls on the industry. Those controls
further contributed to shortages.
However, once the price controls were enacted, a number of oil companies (and other companies) were charged with "overcharging" under the price control law (see, eg, the decision of the United States Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit in
SINCLAIR OIL CORPORATION and LITTLE AMERICA REFINING COMPANY v ABRAHAM). Violations of the price controls were subject to civil penalties.
That may demonstrate that oil companies, like any other company, sometimes violate the law. No one has disputed that point.
However, as noted above, it doesn't show that the oil companies caused the 1970s energy crisis, or even that they manipulated the market. It merely shows that certain companies, in response to the shortages caused by OPEC, broke a well-intentioned, but ultimately counterproductive, statute.
I hope that helps clear things about. Now maybe you can hurry off to this year's
Grassroots festival and rail against the "Little Eichmans".
Snarf has yet to even site any 'facts' from any source that backs up his claim that Big Oil orchestrated the energy crisis of the early 70's or that of the late 70's. All he's done is shown that they profited from it, not orchestrated it. For that he fails.
Oil Prices Near $79 on Hurricane Ida Fears: I guess "big oil" is using its "weather machine" to create a hurricane in order to raise gas prices again.
Gas prices soar to highest level ever for Labor Day: The national average for a gallon of regular gasoline hit $3.80 on Monday, up 14 cents from the same time last year, the highest price ever recorded during a Labor Day weekend
Gas Prices Soar 51 Cents in Just Two MonthsFebruary 2013 saw record high gas prices for the time of year according to news reports. CNBC noted the national average was the highest ever for the time of year on Feb. 1. As of Feb. 11, The Los Angeles Times reported that the national average that day ($3.587) was also a record, "7.8 cents higher than the record for Feb. 11, set last year." Today's price is now 17.6 cents higher than 2012.
...Those higher pump prices hurt consumers, who were already paying more for gas than in decades. The Energy Information Administration (EIA) reported recently that the average household spent more on gas last year, as a percentage of income, than it had in 30 years.
The Hill's Ben Geman wrote on Feb. 4, "the average household spent $2.912 for gasoline in 2012, which makes up almost 4 percent of pre-tax income, tying 2008 for the highest percentage in roughly 30 years." The media actually forecast falling prices in 2012, during the heated presidential election. Many of those predictions failed.
Gas prices have been at sustained highs throughout much of President Obama's time in office. Although there are many factors to gas prices, Heritage Foundation noted in August 2012, that "after three years of adding regulatory hurdles and blocking exploratory access and development, President Obama's policies are helping keep prices higher than necessary."
Especially interesting:
It took the media some time to catch on to rising gas prices, as "Good Morning America's" Josh Elliot said two weeks after the climb began that "we have just learned that gas prices have skyrocketed."
Just like they waited a month to report the BP oil spill. I'm
sure they're not reluctant to report a story that reflects badly on their sainted Obama, and would give the same pause in news coverage if it were Bush or a Republican in the White House.
Sure they would.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2013/03/12/gas-prices-show-first-signs-abating-since-december/Gas prices have eased slightly this week after climbing more than 50 cents since December, according to the AAA Daily Fuel Gauge Report.
The average price for regular gas on Tuesday was $3.70 a gallon, five cents lower than a week ago, amid lower crude oil prices and an increase in production at refineries. Crude oil was trading at $92.96 a barrel late Tuesday morning, down from a high of $98.30 in the last 30 days.
The Energy Information Administration said regular gasoline is down 7 cents in the last two weeks.
However, prices are still about 12 cents higher than just one month ago, while the average price is above $4 a gallon in California, Alaska and Hawaii.
Premium fuel is over $4 a gallon in 19 states and in Washington, D.C.
Just for the record, gas was $1.80 per gallon when Obama was inaugurated in Jan 2008, and hasn't gone below 3.20 a gallon in the last 2 years.
I'm sure that has nothing to do with Obama's refusing to allow drilling on federal lands, or his stated intent to destroy the coal industry. Or prevent the Keystone Pipeline that would give us abundant cheap oil from Canada.
Nope, these things just mysteriously happen!
