RKMBs
Posted By: the G-man Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2005-10-28 6:53 PM

Having not yet fully developed their own nuclear capabilities, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad seems intent on testing the capabilities of Israel's nuclear warheads... on the Iranian population:


"The establishment of the Zionist regime was a move by the world oppressor against the Islamic world," the president told a conference in Tehran on Wednesday, entitled The World without Zionism.

"The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land," he said.

"As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map," said Ahmadinejad, referring to Iran's revolutionary leader Ayat Allah Khomeini.

Are Syrian and Iranian leaders in some sort of a contest to see who gets deposed next?

Maybe.
Posted By: theory9 Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2005-10-28 9:58 PM
I wonder how long it'll take for Israel to turn Iran into a glass menagerie...
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2005-10-28 10:02 PM
Only slightly more time than it'll take for the U.N. to condemn Israel for picking a fight with poor wittle Iran.
Posted By: theory9 Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2005-10-28 10:10 PM
In my political opinion...





























































Fuck Iran.
this is why i didn't vote in the last Iranian election.
Posted By: PenWing Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2005-10-29 12:12 AM
I really hope Iran is just being it's usual dumbass self. I don't like war. I don't like killing. But in their case, I'll make an exception if they really want it.
Quote:

PenWing said:
I really hope Iran is just being it's usual dumbass self. I don't like war. I don't like killing. But in their case, I'll make an exception if they really want it.



if a country being an asshole to another country were justification for a war then there's going to be a long line to attack america.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2005-10-29 12:18 AM
Calling for the complete destruction of another country and developing the means to do it are about as close to a declaration of war as one can get.
Quote:

the G-man said:
Calling for the complete destruction of another country and developing the means to do it are about as close to a declaration of war as one can get.



i don't see why ANY country has any nukes. Its long been known that its not a practical weapon to use. Sure you get the short term benefits in combat but the longterm fallout and the risk of nuclear winter from a nuclear war make it a pointless thing to have.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2005-10-29 12:27 AM
Unfortunately, that particular genie is out of the bottle.
but we don't have to make it worse by building new bombs and having atomic facilities for these people to steal the information from anyway.
I suppose we could leave that to the six or seven other [known] nations who are doing that.
Quote:

Captain Sammitch said:
I suppose we could leave that to the six or seven other [known] nations who are doing that.



it doesn't matter if they have them and we stop making them. because no government in the world would start a nuclear war. it would be suicide.
just three nuclear missiles is enough to retaliate. and its common knowledge that any nuclear fight would bring nuclear winter.

the only people who would be willing to use nukes would be terrorists and we couldn't use our nukes to strike back at them if they did use them.
The power of nuclear weapons is principally a psychological power, no matter how devastating they may be. The simple fact is that nobody will voluntarily get rid of their nuclear weapons because they don't want to be the only ones to do so. It's the fear of mutual annihilation that makes nuclear weaponry so effective. That said, it would be ludicrous to get rid of our nuclear weapons expecting everyone else to see reason and do the same.
Posted By: Pig Iran Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2005-10-29 10:46 AM
R3X , you are dumb..we now (the us) have to build emp weapons, satellite weapons, etc..if we are to simply defend ourselves. Yes, nukes don't cut it anymore so we need an even better armory. The world cannot get along and we need a man ( or woman ) with balls to lead this nation. terrorists are bullshit. terrorists can't exist without countries sponsoring them and letting them exist. So we as a collective world need to take a hardline and say (fuck you mr terrorist) and nuke or bomb or fry anyone that lets off a nuke or any other wmd.

Now, I don't believ that many wmds exist in nuclear terms outside of the g-12 but the un needs to get off it's ass and take a hard line against...Iran, syria, N korea, etc....
Quote:

Captain Sammitch said:
The power of nuclear weapons is principally a psychological power, no matter how devastating they may be. The simple fact is that nobody will voluntarily get rid of their nuclear weapons because they don't want to be the only ones to do so. It's the fear of mutual annihilation that makes nuclear weaponry so effective. That said, it would be ludicrous to get rid of our nuclear weapons expecting everyone else to see reason and do the same.



we know all the countries that have nuclear capability. would it be so hard to discuss an across the board disposal of the bulk of the world's weapons?
Quote:

Pig Iron said:
R3X , you are dumb..we now (the us) have to build emp weapons, satellite weapons, etc..if we are to simply defend ourselves.



i'm dumb for wanting a reduction in nuclear weapons?
Quote:

Yes, nukes don't cut it anymore so we need an even better armory. The world cannot get along and we need a man ( or woman ) with balls to lead this nation. terrorists are bullshit. terrorists can't exist without countries sponsoring them and letting them exist.



but the bigger issue is that terrorists can't exist without people willing to volunteer for their causes. if we had a smarter foreign policy back in the 1950's through today we wouldn't be seeing these terrorist groups at all.

Quote:

So we as a collective world need to take a hardline and say (fuck you mr terrorist) and nuke or bomb or fry anyone that lets off a nuke or any other wmd.



that's the thing. if russia launches a nuke at us we have a target to retaliate. but we can't reasonably retaliate with nuclear arms against a terrorist cell living in a cave.

Quote:

Now, I don't believ that many wmds exist in nuclear terms outside of the g-12 but the un needs to get off it's ass and take a hard line against...Iran, syria, N korea, etc....



I think Lybia (and the negotiations that started under Clinton are a good example. if you bomb a country into submission all you do is stall their aggression, but if you negotiate a bloodless peace then your create an actual peace.
Posted By: Chant Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2005-10-29 2:14 PM
Quote:

the G-man said:
Unfortunately, that particular genie is out of the bottle.




That is true!

Which leads me to a personal opinion.

I don't like Israel, I've never had and I probably never will. This has nothing to do with anti-semitism or whatever. I simply do not agree that it was the right thing to give the israeli that land.

But, the fact of the matter is, Israel is there! And we are allied with it.
And the statements from the Iranian president is, as G-man said, as close to a declaration of war as you can come, without actually declaring war.

I sincerely hope that war won't be the outcome. I sincerely hope that the UN will listen to Israel for once and kick Iran out.

And if war does become neccessary, then Fuck Iran and let's grind them into dust!
Quote:

r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:

Captain Sammitch said:
The power of nuclear weapons is principally a psychological power, no matter how devastating they may be. The simple fact is that nobody will voluntarily get rid of their nuclear weapons because they don't want to be the only ones to do so. It's the fear of mutual annihilation that makes nuclear weaponry so effective. That said, it would be ludicrous to get rid of our nuclear weapons expecting everyone else to see reason and do the same.



we know all the countries that have nuclear capability. would it be so hard to discuss an across the board disposal of the bulk of the world's weapons?




Yes it would. It's ludicrous, like I've been saying. It's not gonna happen. Because nobody trusts anybody. Who's gonna enforce something like that? The UN? We've already seen how good they are at stuff like that.
Quote:

Captain Sammitch said:
Quote:

r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:

Captain Sammitch said:
The power of nuclear weapons is principally a psychological power, no matter how devastating they may be. The simple fact is that nobody will voluntarily get rid of their nuclear weapons because they don't want to be the only ones to do so. It's the fear of mutual annihilation that makes nuclear weaponry so effective. That said, it would be ludicrous to get rid of our nuclear weapons expecting everyone else to see reason and do the same.



we know all the countries that have nuclear capability. would it be so hard to discuss an across the board disposal of the bulk of the world's weapons?




Yes it would. It's ludicrous, like I've been saying. It's not gonna happen. Because nobody trusts anybody. Who's gonna enforce something like that? The UN? We've already seen how good they are at stuff like that.



so your stance on international relations is not to try and build trust between countries but to just give up?
Posted By: theory9 Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2005-10-29 8:05 PM
It is a good thing to want to reduce or eliminate nuclear stockpiles, but simply not realistic. No incentive is big enough to entice a country to cede control of its national security by handing over what remains history's most effective military deterent.

So in other words--G-Man is right.
Quote:

theory9 said:
It is a good thing to want to reduce or eliminate nuclear stockpiles, but simply not realistic. No incentive is big enough to entice a country to cede control of its national security by handing over what remains history's most effective military deterent.

So in other words--G-Man is right.



yes, because there hasn't been a single war or military action since WWII.
Posted By: theory9 Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2005-10-30 8:08 AM
While you play the wish fulfillment game, I'll stay as close as I can to the real world. The wars that have followed WWII, with the obvious exception of Vietnam, have been quite limited in scope and deaths.
Quote:

r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:

Captain Sammitch said:
Quote:

r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:

Captain Sammitch said:
The power of nuclear weapons is principally a psychological power, no matter how devastating they may be. The simple fact is that nobody will voluntarily get rid of their nuclear weapons because they don't want to be the only ones to do so. It's the fear of mutual annihilation that makes nuclear weaponry so effective. That said, it would be ludicrous to get rid of our nuclear weapons expecting everyone else to see reason and do the same.



we know all the countries that have nuclear capability. would it be so hard to discuss an across the board disposal of the bulk of the world's weapons?




Yes it would. It's ludicrous, like I've been saying. It's not gonna happen. Because nobody trusts anybody. Who's gonna enforce something like that? The UN? We've already seen how good they are at stuff like that.



so your stance on international relations is not to try and build trust between countries but to just give up?




Maybe you're still reeling from the whole Rosa debacle, Ray. But I don't think you're being practical here. You want us to make the world safer by removing our strongest deterrent to enemy action? You can discuss arms reduction all you want, and you'll even get little victories here and there. But in the long run, prudence dictates that you maintain as much strength as possible, simply because in the real world, unilateral armament is much more of a likelihood than unilateral disarmament.
If you want to build trust between nations, try doing it on something that'll actually be profitable to them, like exchanging improved trade relations for improved human-rights conditions.
Posted By: theory9 Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2005-10-30 10:29 AM
Quote:

Captain Sammitch said:
If you want to build trust between nations, try doing it on something that'll actually be profitable to them, like exchanging improved trade relations for improved human-rights conditions.




*cough*North Korea, r3x*cough*
This is nothing particularly new from that side of the Persian Gulf. Only the face is new.

Saddam Hussein, people might remember, had an army of volunteers ready to invade and crush Israel, and maintained the only reason this didn't happen was because Jordan would not open its borders.

Duyring that big earthquake a few years ago, Iran said it would accept help from any country, including the United States, but not Israel.

I agree that its an effective declaration of war. That doesn't mean Israel has to do anything about it - it already reserves the right to take preemptive strikes against Iranian missile delivery systems, nuclear weapons facilities and other strategic targets.

Quote:

but the un needs to get off it's ass and take a hard line against...Iran, syria, N korea, etc....





This is, with respect, silly. What can the UN do? Its obliged to do what the Security Council says. Do you mean instead that the Security Council should get off its arse and do something?

I think there is something to the Israeli proposition that Iran be ejected from the UN. One of the purposes of the UN is promotion of world peace (between sovereign states). Iran's statement makes it clear that it is not interested in that, in so far as Israel is concerned.

Chant, I disagree with your view that Jews had no right to establish Israel. Both Israelis and Palestinians deserve their own state.
Quote:

theory9 said:
While you play the wish fulfillment game, I'll stay as close as I can to the real world. The wars that have followed WWII, with the obvious exception of Vietnam, have been quite limited in scope and deaths.




Yes, but that isn't a consequence of the UN's actions, more a result of the Cold War.

Incidentally, Vietnam was nothing compared to the 5 nation war in the Congo which recently ended.
Posted By: magicjay38 Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2005-10-30 8:26 PM
Quote:

theory9 said:
While you play the wish fulfillment game, I'll stay as close as I can to the real world. The wars that have followed WWII, with the obvious exception of Vietnam, have been quite limited in scope and deaths.




You could find many Russian veterans of Afganistan that would disagree with that statement. Does it apply to the Korean War? What about the Cold War?
Cold War? If you're being very specific, not many deaths, very broad scope. Korea? Vietnam? Very narrow scope, lots of deaths. And the Russians brought Afghanistan on themselves.
Posted By: magicjay38 Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2005-10-30 11:27 PM
Quote:

Captain Sammitch said:
Cold War? If you're being very specific, not many deaths, very broad scope. Korea? Vietnam? Very narrow scope, lots of deaths. And the Russians brought Afghanistan on themselves.




The Cold War was fought by proxy on many different fronts, Central America for example. Korea, Vietnam and Afganistan were major skirmishes in the Cold War. The Russia brought Afganustan on itself, as the USA did in Vietnam.
Posted By: Chant Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2005-10-31 12:06 AM
Quote:

First Amongst Daves said:

Chant, I disagree with your view that Jews had no right to establish Israel. Both Israelis and Palestinians deserve their own state.




well, if you read my post, I never said that they didn't have the right. I'm not sure if they did or didn't. What I said was that I don't think it was the right thing.
I think that a large part of the tension in the middle east is due to Israel's presence.

But as I said, Israel is there! So it's a moot point
Posted By: theory9 Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2005-10-31 1:27 AM
Quote:

First Amongst Daves said:
Quote:

theory9 said:
While you play the wish fulfillment game, I'll stay as close as I can to the real world. The wars that have followed WWII, with the obvious exception of Vietnam, have been quite limited in scope and deaths.




Yes, but that isn't a consequence of the UN's actions, more a result of the Cold War.

Incidentally, Vietnam was nothing compared to the 5 nation war in the Congo which recently ended.




Dave, you're talking about the darkies over there with no oil...we don't give a toss about them!
Posted By: theory9 Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2005-10-31 1:33 AM
Quote:

First Amongst Daves said:


I think there is something to the Israeli proposition that Iran be ejected from the UN. One of the purposes of the UN is promotion of world peace (between sovereign states). Iran's statement makes it clear that it is not interested in that, in so far as Israel is concerned.




Then Israel should've been booted years ago for bombing Iraq's nuclear reactors.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2005-11-07 5:03 PM
Israel's actions were in direct response to a threat.
Posted By: theory9 Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2005-11-08 1:50 AM
Then by that reasoning, Iraq had the right to build the reactors in response to the direct threat of Israel already having nuclear capabilities.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2005-11-08 1:56 AM
But Israel doesn't run around threatening to attack their neighbors.
Posted By: the G-man Iran offered N. Korea oil for weapons help - 2005-11-26 5:09 PM
Iran offered N. Korea oil for weapons help

    Iran has offered North Korea oil and natural gas as payment for help in developing nuclear missiles, German weekly magazine Der Spiegel reported on Saturday, citing unidentified Western intelligence sources.

    A senior Iranian official traveled to the North Korean capital Pyongyang during the second week of October to make the offer, the magazine quoted the sources as saying. It was unclear what North Korea's response was, it added.

    Diplomats and intelligence sources say Iran is pushing ahead with plans to enrich uranium in defiance of international pressure to stop developing sensitive nuclear technology to calm fears it is seeking nuclear weapons.

    Iran insists its nuclear ambitions are entirely peaceful.

    Iran's Shahab-3 missiles are based on North Korea's Nodong rockets and Pyongyang is Tehran's most important partner in developing missile technology
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2005-12-05 5:43 PM
The leader of the UN’s toothless nuclear watchdog says Iran is only months away from having nuclear bombs.

But he also says we need to continue along the same diplomatic path that has led us to this juncture.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2005-12-12 6:56 PM
Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran

    ISRAEL’S armed forces have been ordered by Ariel Sharon, the prime minister, to be ready by the end of March for possible strikes on secret uranium enrichment sites in Iran, military sources have revealed.

    The order came after Israeli intelligence warned the government that Iran was operating enrichment facilities, believed to be small and concealed in civilian locations.

    Iran’s stand-off with the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) over nuclear inspections and aggressive rhetoric from Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president, who said last week that Israel should be moved to Europe, are causing mounting concern.

    The crisis is set to come to a head in early March, when Mohamed El-Baradei, the head of the IAEA, will present his next report on Iran. El-Baradei, who received the Nobel peace prize yesterday, warned that the world was “losing patience” with Iran.

    A senior White House source said the threat of a nuclear Iran was moving to the top of the international agenda and the issue now was: “What next?” That question would have to be answered in the next few months, he said.

    Defence sources in Israel believe the end of March to be the “point of no return” after which Iran will have the technical expertise to enrich uranium in sufficient quantities to build a nuclear warhead in two to four years.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2005-12-14 11:39 PM

05.12.13.NakedAggress-X.gif


From FoxNews: Iranian President Again Questions Holocaust.

TEHRAN, Iran — Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has reiterated his doubt about the Holocaust and called on Muslim nations to take a proactive stand on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, state media reported Tuesday.

The president's comments, published on Iranian state television's Web site, were the second time in a week he has expressed doubt about the Nazi genocide of Jews during World War II. In October, Ahmadinejad also said Israel should be "wiped off the map."

"If the killing of Jews in Europe is true," the Web site quoted Ahmadinejad as saying during a speech at an Islamic conference in Tehran, "and the Zionists are being supported because of this excuse, why should the Palestinian nation pay the price?" ...

Ahmadinejad has been unapologetic about taking Iran on a more openly defiant course, insisting on Iran's right to develop its nuclear program and often using rhetoric reminiscent of the 1980s heyday of the Islamic Revolution.

But he has alienated even some conservative allies in Iran, who fear he is hurting the country's image. Moderate Iranians have called on the ruling Islamic establishment to rein in the president.

Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who has ultimate say on all matters, has backed Ahmadinejad's calls for Israel's elimination.

From Mark Steyn :But seriously folks, this clown is dangerous (via Little Green Footballs).

So let's see: We have a Holocaust denier who wants to relocate an entire nation to another continent, and he happens to be head of the world's newest nuclear state. (They're not 100 percent fully-fledged operational, but happily for them they can drag out the pseudo-negotiations with the European Union until they are. And Washington certainly won't do anything, because after all if we're not 100 percent certain they've got WMD -- which we won't be until there's a big smoking crater live on CNN one afternoon -- it would be just another Bushitlerburton lie to get us into another war for oil, right?)

So how does the United States react? Well, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said that the comments of Ahmadinejad "further underscore our concerns about the regime."

Really? But wait, the world's superpower wasn't done yet. The State Department moved to a two-adjective alert and described Ahmadinejad's remarks as "appalling" and "reprehensible." "They certainly don't inspire hope among any of us in the international community that the government of Iran is prepared to engage as a responsible member of that community," said spokesman Adam Ereli.

You don't say. ...

What does it mean when one party can talk repeatedly about the liquidation of an entire nation and the other party responds that this further "underscores our concerns," as if he'd been listening to an EU trade representative propose increasing some tariff by half a percent?

Well, it emboldens the bully. ...


We assume, as Neville Chamberlain, Lord Halifax and other civilized men did 70 years ago, that these chaps may be a little excitable, but come on, old boy, they can't possibly mean it, can they? Wrong. They mean it but they can't quite do it yet. Like Hitler, when they can do it, they will -- or at the very least the weedy diplo-speak tells them they can force the world into big concessions on the fear that they can.

Someone's going nuts with the political cartoons.
Posted By: Killconey Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2005-12-15 1:07 AM
Phew! I'm just glad that nukes are such a suicidal weapon that no one in their right mind would ever use one. Especially terrorist prone nations like Iran. Yep. Sure glad suicide tactics aren't something they practice...
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2005-12-15 1:12 AM
Yes, the doctrine of mutally assured destruction will work MUCH better than a preemptive strike on a nation full of jihad-happy suicide bomber wannabes.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2006-01-04 7:52 PM
I'm seriously starting to wonder if the leaders of Iran are trying to die:



Iran is secretly trying to obtain technology and expertise needed to build a nuclear weapon, according to a leaked intelligence report that threatens to deepen a rift with the West over its nuclear programme...

The report concludes that scientists in Tehran are shopping for parts for a new ballistic missile with "import requests and acquisitions ... registered almost daily", the Guardian said.

And die quickly:



The Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has said that there will be no dialogue with Europe because it is a waste of time. This point was underlined by the Iranian leader during his first appearance in front of the committee of foreign affairs and national security of the mullah-run majlis.

"The president, defined the attempts by the governments of the past 16 years to bring to the table a dialogue with Europe and to try and reduce tensions, as a waste of time which has so far not produced any tangible results for our country."

Playing a dangerous game with very little skill, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is doing is level best to insure that he will be the final President of the Islamic Republic of Iran. At this rate, between now and mid-March, it would be unsurprising if air and special forces from at least one nation and possibility more will likely launch a series of debilitating strikes from which the current radical Islamic regime in Iran will not be allowed to emerge.

I also suspect MoveOn.Org will start a "No Blood for Persian Carpets" campaign.

Posted By: PenWing Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2006-01-04 11:21 PM
I saw the end of a report yesterday on Iran that focused on the difference between the older, highly religious minority, and the larger, under 30, moderately religious majority. It seems the only reason the crazies are running the country, at least according to the report, is because the younger people are apathetic to politics. The older loonies don't go over board with religious demands on the women, only requiring head scarves in public and disallowing activities between men and women that could lead to physical contact, so the younger generations look the other way. Sounds a lot like America in that regard. Still, I don't know how accurate the report was, but if it is true, those young people might want to start taking an interest in their nation's current policies, and soon.

Edit: Forgot to mention that the young people interviewed don't even hate America, in fact, they are fascinated by us over here.
The young people may want to get invloved before theier government turns thier country into a crater.
Posted By: Pig Iran Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2006-01-04 11:34 PM
I'm not gonna feel sorry for them if they are too afraid or numb to do anything. It's akin to giving German civilians a pass in the Hitler era..bullshit.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2006-01-09 7:47 AM
NY Times:

    Iran said Sunday that inspectors from the International Atomic Energy Agency would remove seals from some nuclear facilities by Monday, opening the way for the Iranians to resume research on fuel production.

    The plan to resume research, which Iran first announced last week, has heightened concerns in the West that the Iranians are moving toward building atomic weapons.

    "Iran is ready to resume the research activities after the inspectors remove the seals," said a Foreign Ministry spokesman, Hamid Reza Asefi. He also reiterated Iran's contention that it has the right to conduct nuclear research under the nonproliferation agreement. Inspectors from the agency arrived in Tehran on Saturday to remove seals they had affixed to the research sites after Iran voluntarily agreed to stop all enrichment-related activities more than two years ago.


Thank goodness our "international allies" are doing their level best to keep the crazies in Iran from getting nukes.




Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2006-01-12 7:27 PM
A good editorial on the feckless European Union approach to Iran’s nuclear ambitions: Unserious Consequences.

    Iran’s decision yesterday to resume what it dubs “nuclear research” is garnering stern criticism in unexpected quarters.

    Mohammed ElBaradei, head of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), says he’s “running out of patience” with Tehran. French Foreign Minister Philippe Douste-Blazy urges the mullahs to “immediately and unconditionally reverse the decision.” His German counterpart, Frank-Walter Steinmeier, warns that matters cannot continue this way “without consequences,” citing Iran’s actions as a violation of the November 2004 Paris Accord in which Tehran agreed to suspend its nuclear programs.

    It’s almost enough to think the Europeans and their friends finally mean to get serious with Iran. Almost, but not quite.

    Thus, even as Iran announced plans to break the IAEA seals on the centrifuges of its Natanz uranium enrichment facility, Austrian Chancellor (and temporary president of the European Union) Wolfgang Schüssel warned that it would be premature to discuss sanctions. Javier Solana, the EU foreign policy chief, added that “every effort must be made to convince the Iranians to return to the previous situation, to negotiations.” Mr. Solana’s idea of getting tough with the Iranians is apparently to beg them to show up for lunch.

    The Iranians have seen this European two-step before.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2006-01-20 6:58 PM
Will Israel solve our problem?

    It is remarkable how quickly discussions about Iran's pursuit of nuclear weapons turn to Israel.

    But there is a problem with this tidy scenario. The Iranians have learned from Iraq's mistake — they've thought of little else — and have hardened and dispersed their nuclear facilities all over the vast territory of Iran. The sites are buried deep and well disguised.

    In other words, from the world's point of view, there is no easy fix. "Let the Israelis do it" won't work.

    For more than two years, the Europeans, with America's blessing, have been exhorting the Iranians to forego nuclear weapons. Shocking though it may seem, this has not worked. Last week, Iran announced that the country is removing the seals from its Natanz plant — a direct violation of an agreement with Britain, France and Germany.

    The prospect of a nuclear-armed Iran was made even more terrifying with the ascent last June of the Holocaust-denying, religious vision-seeing Mahmoud Ahmadinejad as president. Ahmadinejad reportedly believes in the imminent return of the righteous descendant of the Prophet Mohammed, the 12th Imam, whose appearance on Earth will be presaged by war and chaos. A previous Iranian leader mused that only one nuclear bomb would be sufficient to completely obliterate Israel and the largest Jewish population on Earth. A return salvo by Israel could destroy only a fraction of the world's Muslims. Would this madness be within the realm of the conceivable to Ahmadinejad? Even apart from his hysterical rantings about Israel ("a disgraceful blot" that "should be wiped off the face of the Earth"), consider what he said to his own countrymen when a plane crashed into a Tehran building killing 108. "What is important is that they have showed the way to martyrdom which we must follow."

    Ahmadinejad and the sick mullahs who run Iran may be crazy, but they're not fools. They know that between fighting al Qaeda and building a durable democracy in Iraq, we're hardly in a mood to deal with Iran at the moment. But we cannot avoid it. The current state of play suggests that Iran will be referred to the U.N. Security Council by the International Atomic Energy Agency. But sanctions against Iran will probably be vetoed by Russia or China.

    That leaves us with no painless options. If we, together with a coalition of the willing, impose the only sanction that will truly pinch — an embargo on Iranian oil — oil prices will rise, probably by a lot. But that cost will have to be weighed against the cost of military action, which would be far higher.

    In the meantime, as the far-sighted JWR columnist Michael Ledeen has argued for years, we ought to be supporting the democratic opposition within Iraq for all we're worth. The vicious Iranian regime sits atop a population that detests it. Revolution would be redemption — for all of us.
Posted By: the G-man Iran's Nukes: An 'Intolerable' Threat - 2006-02-05 11:50 PM
What a world with an Iranian nuclear weapon would look like:

    "I would sleep happier if there were no Iranian bomb," writes former Times of London editor Simon Jenkins. "But a swamp of hypocrisy separates me from overly protesting it." Iran, he adds, "is a proud country that sits between nuclear Pakistan and India to its east, a nuclear Russia to its north and a nuclear Israel to its West. . . . How can we say such a country has 'no right' to nuclear defense?" In other words, what's the big deal?

    Well, the deal is the combination of the world's most destructive weapons in the hands of clerical radicals who might use them. And even short of using them, Tehran's rulers could use the leverage of the bomb to dominate the Middle East and limit America's ability to defend itself and fight terrorism.

    The most immediate threat in the region would be to Israel, an ally that only this week President Bush said we would defend against Iran. President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has publicly mused that the Jewish state should be "wiped off the map," and former President Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani has said that "the use of a nuclear bomb in Israel will leave nothing on the ground whereas it will only damage the world of Islam." Why should we assume they don't mean this?

    All the more so because Iran's current leaders seem possessed of an apocalyptic Islamist vision that wouldn't mind an episode of pan-global martyrdom. "We must prepare ourselves to rule the world and the only way to do that is to put forth views on the basis of the Expectation of the Return" of the Mahdi (Shiite Messiah), says Mr. Ahmadinejad.

    The Iranian President is sometimes dismissed as a figurehead, especially on nuclear questions, but he wouldn't have his job without the consent of the ruling clerical council for whom he also serves as a mouthpiece. His fanaticism suggests a mindset that isn't vulnerable to the normal calculations of deterrence that governed during the Cold War. The complacent tell us not to worry because no state would dare use a nuke because that would only guarantee its own destruction. But what if you're a cleric who likes that trade-off?

    A bomb would also give Iran far more leverage to press its influence abroad since it will believe it is immune to retaliation. In Lebanon, the Shiite terrorist group Hezbollah sits on Israel's northern border with 7,000 medium-range missiles, deterred only by Israel's conventional arms superiority. But the military balance changes once Hezbollah's patron becomes invulnerable.

    A nuclear Iran could also wield a predominating influence in OPEC. It could disrupt maritime traffic in the Persian Gulf and force the U.S. Navy out of its narrow, shallow waters. It could menace Europe, and eventually the U.S. homeland, as its ballistic missile capabilities develop. It could arm Palestinian terrorists with sophisticated weapons, turning Gaza into a risk not just for Israel but the entire Mediterranean basin.

    It would be in a position to extend its influence into the Caspian region and neighboring Afghanistan. It could meddle in the affairs of traditional rivals such as Saudi Arabia (which, like Iraq, has a sizeable Shiite population in its eastern provinces); the Saudis--as well as the Egyptians and the Turks--might respond by seeking nuclear weapons of their own.

    It's also important to consider the effect that a nuclear Iran would have on the potential for a democratic Iran. Its nuclear project is often portrayed as a matter of national prestige, the implication being that any strike against it would rally the regime's domestic opponents to its side. What Iranian dissidents tell us is closer to the opposite. A nuclear Iran would enhance the mullahs' sense of invulnerability and facilitate domestic repression.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran's Nukes: An 'Intolerable' Threat - 2006-02-07 9:02 PM
Posted By: magicjay38 Re: Iran's Nukes: An 'Intolerable' Threat - 2006-02-07 10:31 PM
Washington's kneejerk belligerence ignores Tehran's influence and the need for subtle engagement

Quote:

Sir Simon Jenkins, Guardian Ltd Columnist
Wednesday January 18, 2006

Guardian

Never pick a fight you know you cannot win. Or so I was told. Pick an argument if you must, but not a fight. Nothing I have read or heard in recent weeks suggests that fighting Iran over its nuclear enrichment programme makes any sense at all. The very talk of it - macho phrases about "all options open" - suggests an international community so crazed with video game enforcement as to have lost the power of coherent thought.

Iran is a serious country, not another two-bit post-imperial rogue waiting to be slapped about the head by a white man. It is the fourth largest oil producer in the world. Its population is heading towards 80 million by 2010. Its capital, Tehran, is a mighty metropolis half as big again as London. Its culture is ancient and its political life is, to put it mildly, fluid.

All the following statements about Iran are true. There are powerful Iranians who want to build a nuclear bomb. There are powerful ones who do not. There are people in Iran who would like Israel to disappear. There are people who would not. There are people who would like Islamist rule. There are people who would not. There are people who long for some idiot western politician to declare war on them. There are people appalled at the prospect. The only question for western strategists is which of these people they want to help.

Of all the treaties passed in my lifetime the 1968 nuclear non-proliferation treaty (NPT) always seemed the most implausible. It was an insiders' club that any outsider could defy with a modicum of guile. So it has proved. America, sitting armed to the teeth across Korea's demilitarised zone, has let North Korea become a nuclear power despite a 1994 promise that it would not. America supported Israel in going nuclear. Britain and America did not balk at India doing so, nor Pakistan when it not only built a bomb but deceitfully disseminated its technology in defiance of sanctions. Three flagrant dissenters from the NPT are thus regarded by America as friends.

I would sleep happier if there were no Iranian bomb but a swamp of hypocrisy separates me from overly protesting it. Iran is a proud country that sits between nuclear Pakistan and India to its east, a nuclear Russia to its north and a nuclear Israel to its west. Adjacent Afghanistan and Iraq are occupied at will by a nuclear America, which backed Saddam Hussein in his 1980 invasion of Iran. How can we say such a country has "no right" to nuclear defence?

None the less this month's reopening of the Natanz nuclear enrichment plant and two others, though purportedly for peaceful uses, was a clear act of defiance by Iran's new president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Inspectors from the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) remain unsure whether it implies a secret weapons programme but the evidence for this is far stronger than, for instance, against Saddam Hussein. To have infuriated the IAEA's Mohamed ElBaradei takes some doing. As Saddam found, deviousness in nuclear matters is bound to arouse suspicion. Either way, the reopening yielded a strong diplomatic coalition of Europe, America, Russia and China in pleading with Ahmadinejad to desist.

On Monday, Washington's kneejerk belligerence put this coalition under immediate strain. In two weeks the IAEA must decide whether to report Iran to the UN security council for possible sanctions. There seems little point in doing this if China and Russia vetoes it or if there is no plan B for what to do if such pressure fails to halt enrichment, which seems certain. A clear sign of western floundering are speeches and editorials concluding that Iran "should not take international concern lightly", the west should "be on its guard" and everyone "should think carefully". It means nobody has a clue.

I cannot see how all this confrontation will stop Iran doing whatever it likes with its nuclear enrichment, which is reportedly years away from producing weapons-grade material. The bombing of carefully dispersed and buried sites might delay deployment. But given the inaccuracy of American bombers, the death and destruction caused to Iran's cities would be a gift to anti-western extremists and have every world terrorist reporting for duty.

Nor would the "coward's war" of economic sanctions be any more effective. Refusing to play against Iranian footballers (hated by the clerics), boycotting artists, ostracising academics, embargoing commerce, freezing foreign bank accounts - so-called smart sanctions - are as counterproductive as could be imagined. Such feelgood gestures drive the enemies of an embattled regime into silence, poverty or exile. As Timothy Garton Ash wrote in these pages after a recent visit, western aggression "would drain overnight its still large reservoir of anti-regime, mildly pro-western sentiment".

By all accounts Ahmadinejad is not secure. He is subject to the supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. His foe, Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani, retains some power. Tehran is not a Saddamist dictatorship or a Taliban autocracy. It is a shambolic oligarchy with bureaucrats and technocrats jostling for power with clerics. Despite a quarter century of effort, the latter have not created a truly fundamentalist islamic state. Iran is a classic candidate for the politics of subtle engagement.

This means strengthening every argument in the hands of those Iranians who do not want nuclear weapons or Israel eliminated, who crave a secular state and good relations with the west. No such argument embraces name-calling, sabre-rattling, sanctions or bombs.

At this very moment, US officials in Baghdad are on their knees begging Iran-backed Shia politicians and militias to help them get out of Iraq. From Basra to the suburbs of Baghdad, Iranian influence is dominant. Iranian posters adorned last month's elections. Whatever Bush and Blair thought they were doing by invading Iraq, they must have known the chief beneficiary from toppling the Sunni ascendancy would be Shia Iran. They cannot now deny the logic of their own policy. Democracy itself is putting half Iraq in thrall to its powerful neighbour.

Iran is the regional superstate. If ever there were a realpolitik demanding to be "hugged close" it is this one, however distasteful its leader and his centrifuges. If you cannot stop a man buying a gun, the next best bet is to make him your friend, not your enemy.




This is the full article that WSJ qoutes out of context.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran's Nukes: An 'Intolerable' Threat - 2006-02-07 10:47 PM
Quote:

magicjay38 said:Iran is the regional superstate. If ever there were a realpolitik demanding to be "hugged close" it is this one, however distasteful its leader and his centrifuges. If you cannot stop a man buying a gun, the next best bet is to make him your friend, not your enemy.




At some point, however, you have to recognize that certain people, no matter how hard you hug them, are never going to be your friend.

In the case at hand, we are dealing with the leader of a group that takes violent offense at ...cartoons. Do you really think he can be "hugged" into listening to reason?
Posted By: magicjay38 Re: Iran's Nukes: An 'Intolerable' Threat - 2006-02-08 4:27 AM
Quote:

the G-man said:
Quote:

Simon Jenkins said:Iran is the regional superstate. If ever there were a realpolitik demanding to be "hugged close" it is this one, however distasteful its leader and his centrifuges. If you cannot stop a man buying a gun, the next best bet is to make him your friend, not your enemy.




At some point, however, you have to recognize that certain people, no matter how hard you hug them, are never going to be your friend.

In the case at hand, we are dealing with the leader of a group that takes violent offense at ...cartoons. Do you really think he can be "hugged" into listening to reason?




We've hugged many countries to our bossom that were far more abhorrant than Islamic Iran. The Shah's Iran for example. The previous president made many overtures to the US to improve relations. We rebuffed them all. Iran is a player, we need to recognize that. We're still pissed off for the hostage crises 25 years ago and Iran's success at keeping us at bay.

Do you know why there was a hostage crises in the first place?
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran's Nukes: An 'Intolerable' Threat - 2006-02-08 5:11 AM
Quote:

magicjay38 said:
Do you know why there was a hostage crises in the first place?




Because Jimmy Carter was weak.
Posted By: magicjay38 Re: Iran's Nukes: An 'Intolerable' Threat - 2006-02-08 5:20 AM
Quote:

the G-man said:
Quote:

magicjay38 said:
Do you know why there was a hostage crises in the first place?




Because Jimmy Carter was weak.




Don't play stupid with me! The Revolutionary Guard had siezed the US Embassy the previous week and the Government of Iran ordered them to leave and the emabassy was vacated. All hostages were freed. What happened subsequently to cause the Iranians to hold them for over a year? What was there to negotiate?
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran's Nukes: An 'Intolerable' Threat - 2006-02-08 5:25 AM
Quote:

the G-man said:
Quote:

magicjay38 said:
Do you know why there was a hostage crises in the first place?




Because Jimmy Carter was weak.


Posted By: magicjay38 Re: Iran's Nukes: An 'Intolerable' Threat - 2006-02-08 5:37 AM
Quote:

the G-man said:
Quote:

the G-man said:
Quote:

magicjay38 said:
Do you know why there was a hostage crises in the first place?




Because Jimmy Carter was weak.







I'll take that as a no
Quote:

magicjay38 said:
Do you know why there was a hostage crises in the first place?




Because as long as there are extremist Muslims who are not six feet under they will do whatever they think they can get away with.
Posted By: Pig Iran Re: Iran's Nukes: An 'Intolerable' Threat - 2006-02-08 8:34 AM
Quote:

Captain Sammitch said:
Quote:

magicjay38 said:
Do you know why there was a hostage crises in the first place?




Because as long as there are extremist Muslims who are not six feet under they will do whatever they think they can get away with.




By extremist muslim you mean conservative and moderate muslims.
Posted By: magicjay38 Re: Iran's Nukes: An 'Intolerable' Threat - 2006-02-08 8:35 AM
Quote:

Captain Sammitch said:
Quote:

magicjay38 said:
Do you know why there was a hostage crises in the first place?




Because as long as there are extremist Muslims who are not six feet under they will do whatever they think they can get away with.




Since you weren't born yet, I'll cut you some slack. It was about .....MONEY ( what a surprise!).

In the week between hostage seizures the USA decided it would be a good idea to seize Iranian assets held in US Banks in the event they were needed to settle lawsuits by American companies in US courts. I don't recall the exact amount but billions were seized. Far from being Muslim extremists, they wanted their goddamn money back! We give them back their money, they give us back our people. It took 400 some odd days to negotiate a compromise. If you've ever done business with people of the Persian persuasian, that wouldn't surprise you!

Hey! Is that why a corporate litigator, Warren Christopher, was the guy who made the deal?
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran's Nukes: An 'Intolerable' Threat - 2006-02-08 3:48 PM

Quote:

magicjay38 said:
Do you know why there was a hostage crises in the first place?



Quote:

the G-man said:
Because Jimmy Carter was weak.


Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Iran's Nukes: An 'Intolerable' Threat - 2006-02-08 5:07 PM
Quote:

the G-man said:
What a world with an Iranian nuclear weapon would look like:






Quote:

magicjay38 said:
Washington's kneejerk belligerence ignores Tehran's influence and the need for subtle engagement

Quote:

Sir Simon Jenkins, Guardian Ltd Columnist
Wednesday January 18, 2006






This is the full article that WSJ qoutes out of context.




I fail to see how G-man (in the WSJ editorial he cites) quoted the Guardian article out of context.

Until I read both articles, I thought you were referring to Reagan's alleged "October Surprise", which has been thoroughly discredited (as evidenced in the link I provided).
Posted By: magicjay38 Re: Iran's Nukes: An 'Intolerable' Threat - 2006-02-08 5:37 PM
Quote:

Wonder Boy said:
Quote:

the G-man said:
What a world with an Iranian nuclear weapon would look like:






Quote:

magicjay38 said:
Washington's kneejerk belligerence ignores Tehran's influence and the need for subtle engagement

Quote:

Sir Simon Jenkins, Guardian Ltd Columnist
Wednesday January 18, 2006






This is the full article that WSJ qoutes out of context.




I fail to see how G-man (in the WSJ editorial he cites) quoted the Guardian article out of context.

Until I read both articles, I thought you were referring to Reagan's alleged "October Surprise", which has been thoroughly discredited (as evidenced in the link I provided).




Nope. It had nothing to do with the October Surprise. Jenkin's peice comes to a completely different conclusion than the WSJ. They also credit him as a former writer for the Times of London a conservative paper. He left that job in 1992 and currently works for the Guardian, a Liberal paper. Perhaps I'm overly critical.
Quote:

Since you weren't born yet, I'll cut you some slack. It was about .....MONEY ( what a surprise!).




Next you'll be using this tact to get all high and mighty about WWI.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran's Nukes: An 'Intolerable' Threat - 2006-02-08 8:17 PM
Jay, the Journal quoted the Guardian/Jenkins piece specifically to explain how it disagreed with it, not as support for its (the WSJ) position.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran's Nukes: An 'Intolerable' Threat - 2006-02-08 11:17 PM
It is interesting to compare and contrast the "peacenik" or "liberal" reaction to Iran's threats with their reaction to Bush's plans to go to war back in 2002.

The antiwar crowd, and those members of the democratic party currently calling for surrender, like to act as if they opposed the Iraq war because they did not believe that Saddam had WMDs or that he was trying to obtain WMDs. In fact, they assumed he had, or would get, them but that's another thread. In hindsight, however, the antiwar left likes to claim that the war was wrong because Saddam was not a threat.

Contrast this with Iran today. You have an Iranian president vowing to defy the UN, vowing to continue his nuclear adventures and threatening his neighbors. You have, in short, a middle Eastern leader doing and/or admitting publicly to wanting to do, everything that the antiwar left claims Saddam was innocent of.

Given that Iran is doing this, you would think, if the antiwar left was truthful, they would be calling for military action. Instead, they are doing the exact same thing they did with Iraq: putting their heads in the sand, hoping the UN makes the problem go away, and telling us how we should be friendlier to the agressor.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran's Nukes: An 'Intolerable' Threat - 2006-02-12 9:33 AM
Quote:

magicjay38 said:
We've hugged many countries to our bossom that were far more abhorrant than Islamic Iran. ... Iran is a player, we need to recognize that. We're still pissed off for the hostage crises 25 years ago and Iran's success at keeping us at bay.




Iran: U.S., Europe Responsible for Cartoon Crisis

    Iran's hard-line president on Saturday accused the United States and Europe of being "hostages of Zionism" and said they should pay a heavy price for the publication of caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad that have triggered worldwide protests.




Quote:

the G-man said:

Yeppp...we should really be trying to reason with these people....


Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Is Threat to the World: Gore - 2006-02-12 10:55 PM
Iran Is Threat to the World: Gore

    Former US Vice President Al Gore stated Iran’s regime presents threat to the whole world, AFP reports. “Iran is governed by corrupted politicians and religious leaders and presents a threat to the whole world’s future”, said Al Gore during Economic Forum in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.

    According to him corrupted Iranian government together with President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s anti-Israeli views are “a signal for the threat Tehran may pose”.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Is Threat to the World: Gore - 2006-02-14 10:59 PM
Posted By: Killconey Re: Iran Is Threat to the World: Gore - 2006-02-15 12:06 AM
IRAN HOUSE!!!
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test US Nukes - 2006-03-07 7:33 PM

Iran may just been caught red-handed shipping high-tech IEDs into Iraq:

U.S. military and intelligence officials tell ABC News that they have caught shipments of deadly new bombs at the Iran-Iraq border.

They are a very nasty piece of business, capable of penetrating U.S. troops' strongest armor.

What the United States says links them to Iran are tell-tale manufacturing signatures — certain types of machine-shop welds and material indicating they are built by the same bomb factory.

"The signature is the same because they are exactly the same in production," says explosives expert Kevin Berry. "So it's the same make and model."

U.S. officials say roadside bomb attacks against American forces in Iraq have become much more deadly as more and more of the Iran-designed and Iran-produced bombs have been smuggled in from the country since last October.

"I think the evidence is strong that the Iranian government is making these IEDs, and the Iranian government is sending them across the border and they are killing U.S. troops once they get there," says Richard Clarke, former White House counterterrorism chief and an ABC News consultant. "I think it's very hard to escape the conclusion that, in all probability, the Iranian government is knowingly killing U.S. troops."

I am not an expert on international law, but I think it likely that, when a nation chooses to participate in warfare against another nation, that participation is nothing less conscious and calculated than a formal declaration of war.

If these munitions can be tied to the Iranian government—and the article seems to strongly suggest just that—then we have the clear legal and moral justification to disrupt Iran’s nuke program, if not its entire government.

Posted By: magicjay38 Re: Iran Volunteers to Test US Nukes - 2006-03-07 7:57 PM
I believe you can sell arms to anyone you want. The DuPonts made a fortune selling gun powder to both sides during World War I. More recently the Soviets didn't pitch a bitch about the USA supplying arms to Afghan rebels in their war in the region. BTW, are we at war in Iraq? When did that bill go through Congress? I'm sure I'd have heard something about it. You can't have it both ways.

And you claim to be a capitalist.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test US Nukes - 2006-03-08 4:54 PM
It's not just supplying arms.

For the second day in a row, ABC News targets Iran with another bombshell allegation:


Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld on Tuesday rejected suggestions Iraq is engulfed in a civil war but predicted there would be additional "bursts" of sectarian violence in the weeks ahead.

Rumsfeld also claimed that Iranian Revolutionary Guard elements had infiltrated Iraq to cause trouble.

"They are currently putting people into Iraq to do things that are harmful to the future of Iraq," he said. "And we know it. And it is something that they, I think, will look back on as having been an error in judgment."

He would not be more specific except to say the infiltrators were members of the Al Quds Division of Iran's Revolutionary Guards.


We know that Iran is supplying Iraqi terrorists with sophisticated SCMs (shaped charge munitions) that can defeat the armor of even our heaviest tanks. It is this kind of charge that was responsible for the deaths of 14 Marines in their Iraqi interpreter last August near Haditha.

Now we have the Secretary of Defense stating that members of the elite al Quds division—the same unit that deployed elements to Afghanistan to assist the Taliban and roughly analogous to the Green Berets in usage if not quality—are actively fighting coalition forces in Iraq.


It is quite probable that this has not been a proxy war for some time, but instead a low-level special operations war.

One has to wonder how and when the Iranian "error in judgement" will be corrected.

Posted By: magicjay38 Re: Iran Volunteers to Test US Nukes - 2006-03-08 6:34 PM
Change a few names, Iraqi Insurgents for for Viet Cong and Iran Revolutionary Guard for NVA regulars and Rum-dumb is sounding a lot like Robert McNamera whistling in the dark at a press conference.

Has it occurred to you G-man that tanks and armour have become obsolete? Armour was rendered obsolete in the middle ages by the crossbow and it's Deja Vu all over again.

What is it conservatives are conserving? The same stupid mistakes from the past?
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Iran Volunteers to Test US Nukes - 2006-03-08 7:41 PM
Or perhaps the future.

For all the cost in Iraq, the U.S., the people of Iraq, and the world, are better off without Saddam Hussein in power.

I suspect in 15 or 20 years, long after the current conflict in Iraq has subsided and democratic reforms in Iraq are deeply entrenched, we will look back at Iraq and say the price was worth it.
No war goes without mistakes, even those hailed as our greatest victories, and those held up as the standard by which they judge the Iraq war.

Last I looked, the death toll of Americans in the Iraq war was approaching 2400, for almost exactly three years of fighting.

As I pointed out in another recent topic, it was 7000 dead at Iwo Jima in 1945. (Roughly three times the Iraq dead, in just 5 weeks of fighting at Iwo Jima).
And about 19,000 dead at Okinawa (6 times the casualties, in a single battle).

Were those battles worth "conserving"?

Were those costly victories "stupid mistakes"?
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Iran Volunteers to Test US Nukes - 2006-03-08 7:58 PM
Quote:

the G-man said:

Iran may just been caught red-handed shipping high-tech IEDs into Iraq :

Quote:

U.S. military and intelligence officials tell ABC News that they have caught shipments of deadly new bombs at the Iran-Iraq border.

They are a very nasty piece of business, capable of penetrating U.S. troops' strongest armor.

What the United States says links them to Iran are tell-tale manufacturing signatures — certain types of machine-shop welds and material indicating they are built by the same bomb factory.

"The signature is the same because they are exactly the same in production," says explosives expert Kevin Berry. "So it's the same make and model."
U.S. officials say roadside bomb attacks against American forces in Iraq have become much more deadly as more and more of the Iran-designed and Iran-produced bombs have been smuggled in from the country since last October.

"I think the evidence is strong that the Iranian government is making these IEDs, and the Iranian government is sending them across the border and they are killing U.S. troops once they get there," says Richard Clarke, former White House counterterrorism chief and an ABC News consultant. "I think it's very hard to escape the conclusion that, in all probability, the Iranian government is knowingly killing U.S. troops."





I am not an expert on international law, but I think it likely that, when a nation chooses to participate in warfare against another nation, that participation is nothing less conscious and calculated than a formal declaration of war.

If these munitions can be tied to the Iranian government—and the article seems to strongly suggest just that—then we have the clear legal and moral justification to disrupt Iran’s nuke program, if not its entire government.




Quote:

magicjay38 said:
I believe you can sell arms to anyone you want. The DuPonts made a fortune selling gun powder to both sides during World War I. More recently the Soviets didn't pitch a bitch about the USA supplying arms to Afghan rebels in their war in the region. BTW, are we at war in Iraq? When did that bill go through Congress? I'm sure I'd have heard something about it. You can't have it both ways.

And you claim to be a capitalist.




I thought this was a particularly witty response on your part to G-man's argument , MagicJay.

You make some great points, that the U.S. does sell arms to nations across the globe, including rogue nations.
As you say, we supplied and trained the Afghans against the Russians.
We supplied and trained the earliest Al Qaida in the Afghan war.

We armed and supported Saddam Hussein for a long time, and arguably inadvertantly (until 1990) helped to make him a threat to his neighbors.

So while we do have the rationalization to attack Iran, for creating a threat to our military in Iraq, it can certainly be rationalized that other nations have the same justification to attack the U.S.
If you read Pat Buchanan's views on the U.S. and "avoiding foreign entanglements", you might find yourself in surprising agreement with him, and his views of the Bush administration's foreign policy.

And of Clinton's and Bush Sr.'s foreign policy that preceded it.
Posted By: magicjay38 Re: Iran Volunteers to Test US Nukes - 2006-03-08 8:24 PM
I was refering to the Vietnam War, not the Pacific Theatre in World War II. The stakes were much higher in that conflict than they are in the present war in Iraq. Those battles you mentioned were about securing surrender terms. Japan's ability to project military power was dismantled at that point. Was it worth it? Well, it certainly helped to solidify the USA's position as a global hegemon.

Here we're fighting to preserve that hegemony. Since the collapse of the Bretton Woods Accords the decision of oil producing countries, except Iran, to settle accounts in dollars is the main support of our currency on foreign markets. Were that situation to change US consumers would soon be facing a new reality when purchasing goods from abroad. Hence, wealthy but sparcely populated nations like Saudi Arabia exist next to more populated and powerful nations like Iraq and Iran. It's an unstable situation that only exists by the USA protection of the Saudi's and smaller peninsula oil producers.

Remember, in magicjay's world all the players are motivated by money/resource control.
Posted By: thedoctor Re: Iran Volunteers to Test US Nukes - 2006-03-09 1:00 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060308/ts_n...HNlYwMlJVRPUCUl
Quote:

Iran threatens reprisals if punished
By Mark Heinrich and Parisa Hafezi


VIENNA (Reuters) -
Iran warned the United States on Wednesday it could inflict "harm and pain" to match whatever punishment Washington persuaded the U.N. Security Council to dole out for Tehran's refusal to halt atomic research.

"So if the United States wishes to choose that path, let the ball roll," Tehran national security official Javad Vaeedi said.

Security Council diplomats said it would probably start debating Iran next week and U.S. Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns said it would be Monday or Tuesday.

The council's first move is likely to be urging Tehran to halt nuclear fuel work and cooperate with U.N. inspectors, without setting a deadline or threatening action.

Iran, the world's No. 4 oil provider, also said it would review its oil export policy should the council tackle its case, which EU powers said was now inevitable as Tehran had flouted demands to prove it was not secretly seeking atom bombs.

"The United States may have the power to cause harm and pain but it is also susceptible to harm and pain," Vaeedi said.

Asked about Iran's warning, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said in New Orleans: "Provocative statements and actions only further isolate Iran from the rest of the world."

Tehran and the United States, arch-foes since Iran's 1979 Islamic revolution, clashed at a meeting of the International Atomic Energy Agency's governing board called to consider an IAEA report that says Iran is accelerating nuclear research.

The report by IAEA director Mohamed ElBaradei, to be sent to the Security Council later in the day, will form part of the basis for any U.N. action. The U.N. agency's board decided a month ago to send Iran's nuclear dossier to the council, as long as it deferred any measures until after ElBaradei's report.

In testimony to the U.S. Congress, Burns said Iran "directly threatens vital American interests." He said "we plan a concerted approach (in the council) ... that gradually escalates pressure on Iran."

But Washington's top EU allies, Germany, France and Britain, were more cautious. "This is not the end of diplomacy," the "EU3" told the Vienna-based IAEA board.

U.S. Ambassador Gregory Schulte said "the time has now come for the council to act" as Iran had defied a February 4 IAEA resolution to cease trying to master technology to produce fuel for nuclear power plants or, potentially, bombs.

"(Iran) has so far chose a course of flagrant threats and phony negotiations. They hoped this would keep the international community divided and their nuclear ambitions unchecked," he told reporters outside the closed board session.

"Instead the course they have chosen has left them increasingly isolated and increasingly at risk of meaningful consequences (in the Security Council)," he added.

But any U.S.-led move to impose sanctions would face stiff resistance from veto-wielding council members China and Russia, which share the West's wish to deny Iran nuclear know-how but have lucrative energy investments in the Islamic Republic.

Winning consensus even for targeted sanctions such as travel bans on Iranian leaders could be a slow struggle given non-Western resentment that Iran is being singled out while nuclear proliferators such as India, Pakistan and Israel, all with good ties to the West, escape similar treatment.

IRAN DENIES MILITARY INTENT

Iran insists it wants only nuclear-generated electricity but hid atomic work from the IAEA for 18 years. Its recent calls for Israel's destruction have heightened alarm in the West.

Iran, which U.S. and Israeli officials accuse of backing Islamic militants in neighboring
Iraq and elsewhere has said previously it can create problems for Washington in the region.

Asked whether the Islamic Republic could use an "oil weapon," Vaeedi said: "We will not (do so now), but if the situation changes, we will have to review our oil policies."

Vaeedi said Iran remained opened to a negotiated deal, but added: "In any case, we will continue to exercise our (nuclear) research and development activities based on our right."

Iran has accused the United States of having orchestrated the IAEA move to report it to the Security Council as part of a U.S. policy of "regime change" in states it deems hostile.

The West has backed a Russian compromise formula for a joint venture to supply Tehran with low-enriched uranium for nuclear power plants as long as this takes place only on Russian soil.

But Moscow's offer has snagged on Iranian insistence in pursuing its own research with centrifuge enrichment machines

"Iran's unwillingness to cooperate fully with the IAEA, to do what is necessary to rebuild confidence ... has made Security Council action inevitable," EU3 powers said in a statement.

(Additional reporting by Francois Murphy, Irwin Arieff at the United Nations, Carol Giacomo in Washington and Matt Spetalnick in New Orleans)


Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test US Nukes - 2006-03-09 1:31 AM
Quote:

thedoctor said:
Iran warned the United States on Wednesday it could inflict "harm and pain" to match whatever punishment Washington persuaded the U.N. Security Council to dole out for Tehran's refusal to halt atomic research.




You know, if Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al, were really as batshit crazy and reckless as some like to portray them, wouldn't they take this as a challenge to nuke the living shit out of Iran first?
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test US Nukes - 2006-03-14 11:33 PM
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Iran Volunteers to Test US Nukes - 2006-03-20 9:16 PM
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test US Nukes - 2006-03-31 11:08 PM

On the day that Iran stated it would not halt uranium enrichment, the U.S. military made what some are interpreting as a thinly-veilled threat:



The US military plans to detonate a 700 tonne explosive charge in a test called "Divine Strake" that will send a mushroom cloud over Las Vegas, a senior defense official said.

"I don't want to sound glib here but it is the first time in Nevada that you'll see a mushroom cloud over Las Vegas since we stopped testing nuclear weapons," said James Tegnelia, head of the Defense Threat Reduction Agency.

Tegnelia said the test was part of a US effort to develop weapons capable of destroying deeply buried bunkers housing nuclear, chemical or biological weapons.

"We have several very large penetrators we're developing," he told defense reporters.


"We also have -- are you ready for this - a 700-tonne explosively formed charge that we're going to be putting in a tunnel in Nevada," he said.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and express mild sympathy with Iran, and a lot of sympathy for the Iranian people.

Not, I hasten to add, the stupidity of asserting that Israel has no right to exist. The sooner that bozo is executed, the better off the entire region will be. Same can be said for the Council of Guardians, an oligarchy of very conservative clerics who can veto every law passed by Iran's parliament.

Iran was working its way back into everyone's good books prior to the "axis of evil" label. A very recent edition of the New Yorker talks about how the Iranians had even offered to help the US by repatriating downed US airmen in an invasion of Iraq, and were well-advanced in diplomatic talks with the United Kingdom, which has an historic (and in the past less than honourable) interest in Iran, as well as other EU countries.

Its a no-brainer to work out that the only thing that will prevent the US invading a country is nuclear weapons. Which is why Iraq was invaded and Saddam now on trial before a court of Iraqi judges, but why North Korea can still thumb its nose and Kim is still walking around in silk pyjamas. And its why Iran wants them, badly: so the clerics will not have their faces on a deck of cards being distributed by 1st Airborne in Tehran. So who can blame Iran for wanting a nuclear weapon?

Spare a thought for the Iranian people too. The New Yorker reports there was a riot in Tehran last when the Shah's son went on Farsi-language TV broadcast from California calling for tolerance and rapport with the Us. Hundreds of people spilled onto the streets shouting "We love the US!" and calling for democracy, and all were beaten and jailed by the current regime.

You don't want to nuke people who want to be free.
Posted By: PenWing Re: Iran Volunteers to Test US Nukes - 2006-04-03 9:21 PM
You also don't want some who will use the nukes against another nation to have them. Iran will attempt to nuke Israel. If Iran is allowed to have nukes, Israel will make a move to protect itself from a group of people who breed hate against them. To sum it all up, if Iran gets nukes, there will be war, it will be ugly, and many people you claim are innocent will die. The solution is to deny Iran nukes. No nukes means no war means business as usual.


From CBS News:




    U.S. Mulls Nuke Strike On Iran

    April 9, 2006
    (AP / CBS)


    (CBS/AP) The United States is exploring plans for a military strike on Iran because of its nuclear ambitions, according to reports by the Washington Post and The New Yorker magazine.

    Seymour Hersh writes in the April 17 issue of The New Yorker, that members of the U.S. military, more and more, believe President Bush is leaning toward a "regime change" in Iran as the best way to quell the country's quest for nuclear capabilities.
    Hersh writes that the Bush administration has "increased clandestine activities inside Iran and intensified planning for a possible major air attack," including the use of nuclear, bunker-busting bombs.

    The New Yorker article quotes one former senior intelligence official as saying that Mr. Bush views Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad as a "potential Adolph Hitler."

    The Washington Post article, written by Peter Baker, Dafna Linzer and Thomas E. Ricks, says that officials are looking at air strikes and bombing campaigns, but not a land invasion.

    "Surely, the reports will spur debate about U.S. military action against Iran, particularly since U.S.-Iran talks regarding Iraq are tentatively scheduled for mid-April and because U.S. military action would be opposed by most world leaders," CBS News foreign affairs analyst Pamela Falk says.

    The Post reports possible targets for a U.S. attack on Iran include facilities where uranium enrichment plant and a uranium conversion take place, according to current and former officials with the Pentagon and CIA.

    Iranian officials, according to the Post, have already begun reinforcing key sites "by building concrete ceilings, tunneling into mountains and camouflaging facilities."

    Hersh identifies the same targets in The New Yorker and says some inside the Pentagon have proposed using tactical nuclear weapons to penetrate the increased defenses. But, Hersch also writes, "The attention given to the nuclear option has created serious misgivings inside the offices of the Joint Chiefs of Staff."

    Senior administration officials are calling the New Yorker article "ill-informed," reports CBS News White House correspondent Bill Plante.

    The White House insists it is pursuing diplomatic solutions with Iran and a military strike is the last option.

    Iran's president says [he] dismisses the reports as tools of "psychological warfare" from enemies who do not want his country to develop.
    "Through these acts of misinformation, they want to get concessions from us," Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, said through the Iranian state media agency.

    "Our nation will respond [to] the enemies and the mischievous ones resolutely," he warned.

    Despite accusations about weapons development, Iran has said its nuclear research is for civilian purposes only.

    But, Iran has not fully cooperated with international nuclear controls.

    In February, Iran barred surprise International Atomic Energy Agency inspections of its nuclear facilities after the nuclear agency referred it to the U.N. Security Council in response to the resumption of work at Natanz. But Tehran continued allowing normal inspections under the Non-Proliferation Treaty.

    More than three years of IAEA probing have failed to produce concrete evidence of any Iranian nuclear weapons program. But the agency discovered suspicious activity, including plutonium experiments and long-secret efforts to develop enriched uranium.

    The U.N. Security Council has demanded that Iran suspend all enrichment of uranium – a key process that can produce either fuel for a reactor or the material for a nuclear warhead – and gave Tehran until April 28 to comply before the IAEA reports back to the council on its progress.

    "The U.N. in late March gave Iran one month and asked the international watchdog agency to report back on Iran's compliance on freezing its nuclear program, but according to the Hersh report, the White House has increased its military planning for possible attacks against Iran and has not ruled out using tactical bunker-busting nuclear weapons, in the event negotiations fail," Falk says.

    But, the American strike plans do not appear to have international support. Jack Straw, the British foreign minister, called the plans "completely nuts" in a Sunday interview with the BBC.

    "We can't be certain about Iran's intentions and that is therefore not a basis for which anybody would gain authority to go to military action," he said.

    The Washington Post, however, reports that Britain – Washington's closest ally in the War on Terror – is already planning for a potential U.S. strike. The British government is studying security options for its citizens, embassy and consular offices in Iran, according to the report, but "their government is unlikely to participate directly in any attacks."

    "The unity of the world powers at the United Nations ends with a stern warning, mainly because Russia and China have made no bones about opposing sanctions or harsher action," Falk says, "leaving the Bush administration planning for a coalition of countries to impose sanctions and, according to the Hersh report, military action."

    ©MMVI, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.



Quote:

PenWing said:
You also don't want some who will use the nukes against another nation to have them. Iran will attempt to nuke Israel. If Iran is allowed to have nukes, Israel will make a move to protect itself from a group of people who breed hate against them. To sum it all up, if Iran gets nukes, there will be war, it will be ugly, and many people you claim are innocent will die. The solution is to deny Iran nukes. No nukes means no war means business as usual.




I agree with your point, Penwing.

Iran is a major sponsor of terror. It's not like Russia, or China, or India, or even Pakistan having nukes.

Iran is a country that is fanatical enough to be capable of anything, not just defending its borders.

Iran is the major sponsor of terrorism in the Palestinian territories, and now of arms and suicide bombers into Iraq. A people prone toward suicide bombing are one to be kept from acquiring nuclear weapons at all cost. Although I hope it doesn't come to that.

Kim Jung Il is crazy like a fox.

The Iranian leadership is just plain crazy.
President Bush has, since my last post, condemned the New Yorker magazine's report that he was "seriously" considering a nuclear strike on Iran, as "wildly speculative", and Rumsfeld chimed in that The New Yorker has been dead wrong and way off on many other predictions in the past.


But meanwhile, on Monday this week, Iran announced to the world that they have developed the ability to enrich uranium (i.e., the ability to go way beyond civilian nuclear power capability, and to instead develop weapons-grade plutonium.)

An excellent discussion of the ramifications, and both best-case and worst-case scenarios:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/jan-june06/iran_4-11.html

And NBC News broadcast a report the same night , that said that in the worst-case scenario, Iran could have enough enriched uranium to develop a nuclear weapon in 3 years, and have the missile capability within 10 years. But even that worst scenario assumes every test runs perfectly the first time out, which is unlikely.



And another interesting twist, former Republican House speaker Newt Gingrich said on Hannity and Colmes last night that the U.S. should complete its mission in Iraq as soon as possible, so that it has the maximum ability to deal with the growing situation in Iran.
Gingrich described the current situation in Iran as "the greatest threat to the United States since Adolf Hitler".
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test US Nukes - 2006-04-15 4:23 PM
U.S. CENTCOM prepares for war with Iran

    U.S. Central Command has been preparing for the prospect of an American-led war against Iran.

    Officials stressed that Centcom has not received orders to strike Iran's nuclear facilities. But they said the command, which covers an area of 27 countries from North Africa to Central Asia, was preparing to respond quickly to any contingency in the region.

    "I remain persuaded that we would be able to do anything that our nation asks us to do," Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, director of strategic policy and planning at Centcom, said. "And any nation that somehow miscalculates in that regard is making a tremendous mistake."

    Kimmitt told Arab journalists in a briefing in London that the United States remains committed to resolving the crisis with Iran through diplomacy. But he said Centcom was studying a range of scenarios, including the prospect of an Iranian-sponsored Islamic insurgency campaign in wake of a U.S. military confrontation with Teheran.


Meanwhile, IRAN MADMAN RAVES:ISRAEL DOOMED

    The president of Iran again lashed out at Israel and said yesterday that it was "heading toward annihilation," just days after Tehran raised fears about its nuclear activities by saying it had successfully enriched uranium for the first time.

    President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad called Israel a "permanent threat" to the Middle East that will "soon" be liberated. He also appeared to again question whether the Holocaust really happened.

    "Like it or not, the Zionist regime is heading toward annihilation," Ahmadinejad said at the opening of a conference in support of the Palestinians.

    "The Zionist regime is a rotten, dried tree that will be eliminated by one storm."

    Ahmadinejad provoked a world outcry in October when he said Israel should be "wiped off the map."
Posted By: Beardguy57 Re: Iran Volunteers to Test US Nukes - 2006-04-15 6:40 PM
And the insanity continues into the 21 st century. Wonderful......
Posted By: Randal_Flagg Re: Iran Volunteers to Test US Nukes - 2006-04-15 6:59 PM
Screw it! I always wanted to live in a post-apocalyptic world. I guess I'll just start stockpiling can goods, potable water, gasoline, and shotgun shells. Talk to you guys later.... I got work to do.
Posted By: magicjay38 Re: Iran Volunteers to Test US Nukes - 2006-04-15 7:10 PM
Quote:

Randal_Flagg said:
Screw it! I always wanted to live in a post-apocalyptic world. I guess I'll just start stockpiling can goods, potable water, gasoline, and shotgun shells. Talk to you guys later.... I got work to do.




Maybe Golden Dave can get us a deal on some beach front property in Australia!

Posted By: Beardguy57 Re: Iran Volunteers to Test US Nukes - 2006-04-15 7:55 PM
"Lex Luthor, ruler of Australia....you may take away the powers of the son of our jailer!"
That's not cool.
Quote:

magicjay38 said:
Quote:

Randal_Flagg said:
Screw it! I always wanted to live in a post-apocalyptic world. I guess I'll just start stockpiling can goods, potable water, gasoline, and shotgun shells. Talk to you guys later.... I got work to do.




Maybe Golden Dave can get us a deal on some beach front property in Australia!






I wish I could get some beachfront property here.

I think, with some hesitation, that a nuclear armed, moderate Iran would be good for the region, because it would even up the odds with Israel and force a resolution over Palestine.

Too bad its not at all moderate right now. With that in mind, I have no problem with air strikes on Iranian nuclear facilities. The trick is to find them, probably: no one could find North Korea's in time.

I definitely have a problem with a nuclear strike - I can't imagine any American official seriously contemplating a nuclear strike on Iran. Setting aside the ethical, legal and humanitarian issues of using a thermonuclear blast on a city filled with civilians, it would invite a war of terrorism that would last for generations.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test US Nukes - 2006-05-02 5:47 PM
Quote:

First Amongst Daves said:
I definitely have a problem with a nuclear strike - I can't imagine any American official seriously contemplating a nuclear strike on Iran. Setting aside the ethical, legal and humanitarian issues of using a thermonuclear blast on a city filled with civilians, it would invite a war of terrorism that would last for generations.




As opposed to the war of terrorism that has lasted for generations already.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test US Nukes - 2006-05-02 5:49 PM
Iran Discovers New Uranium Deposits, Continues Enrichment Program

    Iran has discovered new deposits of uranium and is continuing its nuclear enrichment program despite international protests, a top nuclear official said Tuesday.

    The deputy chief for nuclear research and technology, Mohammad Ghannadi, said at least three new uranium deposits were found, and the government was working toward mining them.

    He said the deposits were found in the Khoshoomi region, Charchooleh and Narigan.

    Iran already has substantial uranium resources, principally at the Saghand mine in the center of the country.

    Ghannadi said Iran's enrichment of uranium was continuing. Last week, the country flouted a U.N. deadline to cease enrichment, saying it would never give up the program. Enriched uranium is used a fuel for nuclear power generators or in nuclear warheads.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test US Nukes - 2006-05-07 5:32 PM
Iran threatens withdrawal from nuclear treaty

    Iran's parliament threatened the nation's withdrawal from the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty if the United Nations pressures Tehran to suspend uranium enrichment.

    The UN security council, meanwhile, remains at odds on a resolution over Iran's nuclear program.

    In a letter to UN Secretary General Kofi Annan, Iranian lawmakers said they would force the government to withdraw from the treaty if "the U.N. Secretary General and other members of the Security Council fail in their crucial responsibility to resolve differences peacefully."

    Under Article 10 of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty a nation can pull out of the treaty if it decides that an "extraordinary" event has jeopardized the interests of the nation. North Korea withdrew from the treaty in 2003 on that basis.

    The Security Council has been considering a resolution that demands Iran stop uranium enrichment. However, permanent members Russia and China disagree with the United States, Britain and France over how strong the resolution should be.

    The draft resolution, put together by Britain and France and the U.S., would oblige Iran to suspend its nuclear enrichment activities under Chapter 7 of the U.N. Charter. A resolution under Chapter 7 would be binding under international law and would permit sanctions and even war.

    China and Russia, which both have veto power in the Security Council, have argued there is no evidence that Tehran is seeking nuclear weapons.

    The foreign ministers of the U.S., Britain, France, Russia, China and Germany -- are meeting in New York Monday.

    The U.S. ambassador to the UN, John Bolton, said he believed the resolution would be voted on next week, with or without support from Russia and China.

    Bolton dismissed Iran's threat of withdrawal from the non-proliferation treaty, saying it would not deter Western nations trying to push through the resolution.

    "This is a typical Iranian threat. It shows they remain desperate to conceal that their nuclear program is in fact a weapons program," he said. "I'm confident that these statements from Iran will not deter the sponsors of the draft resolution from proceeding in the Security Council."
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test US Nukes - 2006-05-24 8:59 PM
Responding to Iran’s mocking rejection of their package of incentives, the UN Security Council fired back with ... some more incentives:

    Six world powers searched for common ground Wednesday on rewarding Iran if it gives up uranium enrichment, and U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan urged Tehran to “lift the cloud of uncertainty” about its nuclear program.

    Among the issues at a meeting in London grouping the five U.N. Security Council nations and Germany was a compromise proposal for possible sanctions against Iran should it refuse to halt uranium enrichment, diplomats said.

    The compromise — which would drop the automatic threat of military action if Iran remains defiant — is part of a proposed basket of incentives meant to entice Iran to give up the activity, a possible pathway to nuclear arms. It also spells out the penalties if it does not. It is meant to get support both from Russia and China, which fiercely oppose any suggestion of force in pressuring Iran.
Posted By: PenWing Re: Iran Volunteers to Test US Nukes - 2006-05-25 5:55 AM
Quote:

the G-man said:
The compromise — which would drop the automatic threat of military action if Iran remains defiant — is part of a proposed basket of incentives meant to entice Iran to give up the activity, a possible pathway to nuclear arms. It also spells out the penalties if it does not. It is meant to get support both from Russia and China, which fiercely oppose any suggestion of force in pressuring Iran.[/LIST]




Wiat one second here. So, if Iran agrees to the "compomise", then they can still go ahead with their nuclear program without the treat of a military response? That's just . For Iran, I mean. The UN, on the other hand, is .
Its one thing to have nuclear power using non-wepoans grade uranium. Its another to have enriched plutonium to make nuclear weapons.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test US Nukes - 2006-06-27 8:05 PM
Associated Press

    Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said talks with the United States would have "no benefit" for Iran, so there's no need to hold them.

    White House press secretary Tony Snow said officials don't consider the supreme leader's comments to be an official response. The United States and its allies in Europe are waiting for Iran's top nuclear negotiator to talk to the European Union's foreign policy chief, Snow said.

    The West is offering Iran a package of incentives to give up its nuclear activities. But Khamenei — who has final say on all state matters in Iran — believes any negotiations would only pressure his country.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Nixes New U.N. Deadline - 2006-08-01 3:36 PM
IRAN NIXES NEW NUKE DEADLINE

    The U.N. Security Council passed a weakened resolution yesterday, giving Iran until Aug. 31 to suspend uranium enrichment or face the threat of economic and diplomatic sanctions.

    Iran immediately rejected the resolution, saying it would only complicate negotiations over an incentive package offered in June.

    Because of Russian and Chinese demands, the text was watered down from drafts that would have made the threat of sanctions immediate. It now essentially requires the council to hold more discussions before weighing sanctions.


Could the U.N. be any more useless?
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Nixes New U.N. Deadline - 2006-08-08 10:12 PM
Iran's Day of Terror?

    Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has frustrated Western officials by refusing to reply to their offer of various incentives in exchange for Iran’s discarding its nuclear program until August 22. The Western governments had asked Ahmadinejad to reply by June 29; why would Tehran need two extra months?

    Farid Ghadry, the president of the Reform Party of Syria, has offered a provocative explanation for this delay.

    He asserts that the Supreme National Security Council of Iran chose the August 22 date “for a very precise reason. August 21, 2006 (Rajab 27, 1427) is known in the Islamic calendar as the Night of the Sira’a and Miira’aj, the night Prophet Mohammed (saas) ascended to heaven from the Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem on a Bourak (Half animal, half man), while a great light lit-up the night sky, and visited Heaven and Hell also Beit al-Saada and Beit al-Shaqaa (House of Happiness and House of Misery) and then descended back to Mecca.…”

    ....according to Ghadry, Ahmadinejad is planning an illumination of the night sky over Jerusalem to rival the one that greeted the Prophet of Islam on his journey. What the Iranian President, he says, is “promising the world by August 22 is the light in the sky over the Aqsa Mosque that took place the night before. That is his answer to the package of incentives the international community offered Iran on June 6.”

    Certainly a nuclear attack on Jerusalem or even an all-out conventional assault against Israel by Iran would be consistent with Ahmadinejad’s oft-repeated denials of Israel’s right to exist and recent predictions that its demise was at hand. He hinted at the use of nuclear weapons in his phrasing when he said that Israel “pushed the button of its own destruction” by finally retaliating against Hizballah’s relentless rocket barrage from south Lebanon.

    “Arrogant powers,” Ahmadinejad said, “have set up a base for themselves to threaten and plunder nations in the region. But today, the occupier regime” – that is, Israel – “whose philosophy is based on threats, massacre and invasion, has reached its finishing line.”

    Will he attempt to make good on these threats this year on the anniversary of the Miraj, illuminating the night sky over Jerusalem? Will Western powers heed Farid Ghadry’s words and move to stop Iran before it is too late?
Posted By: PJP Re: Iran Nixes New U.N. Deadline - 2006-08-21 2:35 PM
Are we going to have fireworks tomorrow?
Posted By: wannabuyamonkey Re: Iran Nixes New U.N. Deadline - 2006-08-21 7:22 PM
Hopefully Isreal has some fireworks of thier own planned.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Nixes New U.N. Deadline - 2006-09-20 8:00 PM
NY Post

    Iran’s nuke-kook leader, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, took the podium at the United Nations last night — and delivered a mad rant against the United States, blaming it for the world’s ills and claiming Israel should not exist. He spoke hours after President Bush addressed the world body, urging the people of Islamic nations not to be deceived by anti-U.S. propaganda.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Nixes New U.N. Deadline - 2006-10-23 5:49 PM
Fox News:


Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Friday called Israel's leaders a "group of terrorists" and threatened any country that supports the Jewish state.

"You imposed a group of terrorists ... on the region," Ahmadinejad said, addressing the U.S. and its allies. "It is in your own interest to distance yourself from these criminals... This is an ultimatum. Don't complain tomorrow."

"Nations will take revenge," he told a crowd of thousands gathered at a pro-Palestinian rally in the capital Tehran.

Ahmadinejad said Israel no longer had any reason to exist and would soon disappear.

"This regime, thanks to God, has lost the reason for its existence," he said.

"Efforts to stabilize this fake (Israeli) regime, by the grace of God, have completely failed... You should believe that this regime is disappearing," he said.

What Ahmadinejad's thinly-veiled threat failed to mention is that his apocalyptic Hojjatieh sect quite likely has the intention of "helping" Israel out of existence once Iran has both nuclear warheads and the ability to deliver them.

The implicit threats of this particular exchange, which CNN provides coverage of in greater depth, are directed at Europe:


Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has warned Europe that it may pay a heavy price for its support of Israel.

"You should believe that this regime (Israel) cannot last and has no more benefit to you. What benefit have you got in supporting this regime, except the hatred of the nations?" he said in nationally broadcast speech Friday.

"We have advised the Europeans that the Americans are far away, but you are the neighbors of the nations in this region," he said.

"We inform you that the nations are like an ocean that is welling up, and if a storm begins, the dimensions will not stay limited to Palestine, and you may get hurt."

I wonder how much longer the pint-sized Holocaust denier will continue to issue threats against the world community without any measurable response from those countries he has threatened to put in the crosshairs.

Time and again, Ahmadinejad says Iran only wants to continue its nuclear program for peaceful means, only to quickly reissue threats that most understand to be links to implied of attacks by MIRV-equipped ICBMs.

I won't be shocked to find that the world will only recognize the threat that Ahmadinejad's Hojjatieh sect brings to hundreds of thousand if not millions of lives as they attempt to bring forth the Hidden Imam. I suspect it will only be after Iran's missiles are launched, and by then it will be far too late.

Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Nixes New U.N. Deadline - 2006-11-10 10:45 PM
Democrats aren't the only ones declaring victory this week:

    Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei on Friday called U.S. President George W. Bush's defeat in congressional elections a victory for Iran.

    Bush has accused Iran of trying to make a nuclear bomb, being a state sponsor of terrorism and stoking sectarian conflict in Iraq, all charges Tehran denies.

    "This issue (the elections) is not a purely domestic issue for America, but it is the defeat of Bush's hawkish policies in the world," Khamenei said in remarks reported by Iran's student news agency ISNA on Friday.

    "Since Washington's hostile and hawkish policies have always been against the Iranian nation, this defeat is actually an obvious victory for the Iranian nation."
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Iran Nixes New U.N. Deadline - 2006-11-11 8:56 AM
Yes, I saw that too, G-man.

In addition to Khomeini in Iran cheering election of Democrats taking control of the House and Senate, enemies of the United States worldwide are also cheering this as a victory.

Hugo Chaves in Venezuela.

Al Jazeera, and the other Arab/Muslim media.

Al Qaeda is cheering this as a victory for them as well.

I haven't seen any reaction yet from the North Koreans, but I'm sure they feel emboldened also.




Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Iran Nixes New U.N. Deadline - 2006-11-12 11:42 PM
From the Friday, November 10 broadcast of PBS News Hour:


    The leader of al Qaida in Iraq made new threats today.
    A recorded message said to be from Abu Ayyab al-Masri claimed his group has 12,000 fighters in Iraq.
    He dared President Bush to keep U.S. troops in the country.

    He said: "We call on the lame duck not to hurry his escape, as the Defense Secretary [Rumsfeld] did.
    For we haven't enough of your blood yet.
    "

    The message applauded U.S. voters for the election results.
    It said: "They voted for something reasonable."



So the enemy approves of the election results.
They obviously feel Democrat control will be more effective in fighting them.



Two other articles, of the same story:
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Re: Iran Nixes New U.N. Deadline - 2006-11-13 3:08 AM
I think over the years it's become evident that Bush's leadership hasn't been effective. For whatever reason, Bush has stuck with not using enough troops to get Iraq under control. He's been the gift that keeps on giving for creating more terrorist & more dead troops.

Bush is still in charge btw, so for those that take terrorist propaganda to heart Bush still has two more years till somebody from either party comes in to start cleaning up his mess.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Iran Nixes New U.N. Deadline - 2006-11-14 8:14 AM
Quote:

Matter-eater Man said:
I think over the years it's become evident that Bush's leadership hasn't been effective. For whatever reason, Bush has stuck with not using enough troops to get Iraq under control. He's been the gift that keeps on giving for creating more terrorist & more dead troops.

Bush is still in charge btw, so for those that take terrorist propaganda to heart Bush still has two more years till somebody from either party comes in to start cleaning up his mess.




Bush stuck to not using more troops because he trusted Rumsfeld's plan to use a minimal force of 150,000. But Rumsfeld is gone now.
I agree that the Bush/Rumsfeld 150,000 troop occupation strategy has not been effective in Iraq. And that more troops should have been sent in at any number of points in the last 3 and 1/2 years.
But now only McCain is pushing for more troops to do the job right, so it probably won't happen.

I've largely lost faith in Bush, on many fronts beyond the Iraq war.:
  • Afghanistan seems to be experiencing the same resurgency of the enemy, as is occurring in Iraq.
  • The Harriet Myers nomination.
  • The failure of Bush's social security restructuring proposal.
  • The tax cuts that began simultaneous with beginning a war, accelerating the deficit.
  • Bush's allowing domestic spending to rise by a larger amount than even the war on terror.
  • And on Bush's amnesty proposal for aliens.


And while Bush will be in office for another two years, he will be a lame-duck president, with whom Congress can cut off spending and force a withdrawal from Iraq at some point. That's what the al Qaida praise for Democrat victory on November 7 reflects.
The one issue to Bush's credit: he is steadfast about keeping our forces in Iraq until the mission is completed. But a Democrat Congress can force troops to be withdrawn prematurely. And the entire Islamic world is cheering, because they know that.

The insurgency in Iraq only has to wait out the next two years, and then they can watch U.S. troops withdraw, if not sooner.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran and Bush - 2006-11-21 5:34 PM
Israel's Haaretz reports that President Bush said he would "understand" if Israel attacks Iran over its nuclear program.

The New Yorker, meanwhile, has a new piece out speculating whether Bush is more or less likely to attack Iran in the wake of the Democratic electoral victory.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2006-11-25 6:54 PM
RUSSIA STARTS SHIPPING MISSILES TO IRAN PALS

    Russia has begun delivery of Tor-M1 air-defense missile systems to Iran, a Defense Ministry official said yesterday, confirming that Moscow plans to proceed with arms deals with the outlaw nation despite Western criticism.

    The official, who insisted on anonymity, declined to specify when the deliveries were made and how many. Ministry officials have said Moscow would supply 29 of the missile systems to Iran under a $700 million contract signed last December.

    The United States last spring called on all nations to cease all nuclear cooperation with Iran, thought to be seeking to enrich uranium in a bid for nuclear weapons.

    The U.N. Security Council, where Russia wields a veto, is stalemated as to the severity of Iran sanctions.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2006-11-26 9:58 AM
I've never understood why the Russians are so eager to supply arms to islamic countries, especially to a radicalized Shi'ite Iran.

The Islamic world is exploding in population (even as Russia's is declining), and these Muslims in the next few decades will be migrating North into Russian territory and laying claim to it. This is a scenario the Russians have forseen for some time, a scenario they refer to as Catastroika.

It is entirely in the Russians' interest to present a unified front with the United States against Islamic military buildup, particularly of Iran developing nuclear capability. Iran having nuclear weapons would just enable the Iranians to lay claim to Russian territory with impunity. And sooner rather than later.



Every nation on Earth should be resolved that the Iranians never have nukes, because the Iranians more than any other nation are fanatical enough to use them, and have plainly stated that intent.

There is no reason to believe that the world's largest sponsor of suicide bombings would be any less fanatically suicidal in their use of nuclear weapons, if acquired.
Posted By: the G-man 'Proof That Iran Arming Iraq Terrorists' - 2006-12-01 1:00 AM
The 'Smoking Gun'?

    U.S. officials say they have found smoking-gun evidence of Iranian support for terrorists in Iraq: brand-new weapons fresh from Iranian factories. According to a senior defense official, coalition forces have recently seized Iranian-made weapons and munitions that bear manufacturing dates in 2006.

    This suggests, say the sources, that the material is going directly from Iranian factories to Shia militias, rather than taking a roundabout path through the black market.

    Iranian-made munitions found in Iraq include advanced IEDs designed to pierce armor and anti-tank weapons. U.S. intelligence believes the weapons have been supplied to Iraq's growing Shia militias from Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, which is also believed to be training Iraqi militia fighters in Iran.

    Evidence is mounting, too, that the most powerful militia in Iraq, Moktada al-Sadr's Mahdi army, is receiving training support from the Iranian-backed terrorists of Hezbollah.

    Two senior U.S. defense officials confirmed to ABC News earlier reports that fighters from the Mahdi army have traveled to Lebanon to receive training from Hezbollah.
Posted By: the G-man Re: 'Proof That Iran is Arming Terrorists' - 2006-12-23 11:21 PM
Judge faults Iran in '96 bombing

    A federal judge in Washington yesterday blamed the Iranian government for the deaths of 19 members of the U.S. Air Force in a 1996 terrorist bombing in Saudi Arabia, allowing the victims' families to seek more than $260 million in compensation from the Islamic regime in Tehran.
The New York Times

    The American military is holding at least four Iranians in Iraq, including men the Bush administration called senior military officials, who were seized in a pair of raids late last week aimed at people suspected of conducting attacks on Iraqi security forces.

    Gordon D. Johndroe, the spokesman for the National Security Council, said two Iranian diplomats were among those initially detained in the raids. The two had papers showing that they were accredited to work in Iraq, and he said they were turned over to the Iraqi authorities and released. He confirmed that a group of other Iranians, including the military officials, remained in custody while an investigation continued, and he said, "We continue to work with the government of Iraq on the status of the detainees."

    It was unclear what kind of evidence American officials possessed that the Iranians were planning attacks, and the officials would not identify those being held. One official said that "a lot of material" was seized in the raid, but would not say if it included arms or documents that pointed to planning for attacks. Much of the material was still being examined, the official said.


Don't worry, though. We have it on no less an authority than the Iraq Study Group that Iran wants stability in Iraq. So I'm sure this is all perfectly innocent.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-01-07 9:11 PM
The Israeli government is denying earlier reports that it has drafted plans for "a low-level nuclear strike on Iran to wipe out its uranium enrichment facilities."

Of course, if Israel, or any government, was planning this, it seems unlikely they would want to admit it.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-01-20 4:15 AM
Whose side is Harry Reid on?

    Democratic leaders in Congress lobbed a warning shot Friday at the White House not to launch an attack against Iran without first seeking approval from lawmakers.

    "The president does not have the authority to launch military action in Iran without first seeking congressional authorization," Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., told the National Press Club.


I suppose if you believe that the consequences of attacking Iran would be worse than the consequences of Iran going nuclear (and probably nuking Israel), it makes sense to block an attack however possible.

However, if we can't credibly threaten military action, then retarding the Iranians' nuclear progress through diplomacy--which is what the Democrats claim to want--becomes absolutely impossible. You need the carrot and the stick.

If they can't bring themselves to give the President an authorization at this point for an attack on Iran, can the Democratic leadership at least refrain from loudly proclaiming their intention to block it?
Posted By: Steve T Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-01-20 5:15 PM
Perhaps they feel that in the past Bush hasn't always had quite as much evidence as he claimed and they simply wish to make sure he follows proper procedure?
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-01-20 7:17 PM
Which would be a legitimate reason to go to the President and say privately 'listen, George, this is what we expect...' However, by making a public statement, it effectively undercuts the country's postion during negotiationas. Why should Iran pay attention if its heard Reid say that the Senate will not back the President?
Quote:

the G-man said:
Which would be a legitimate reason to go to the President and say privately 'listen, George, this is what we expect...' However, by making a public statement, it effectively undercuts the country's postion during negotiationas. Why should Iran pay attention if its heard Reid say that the Senate will not back the President?



yeah! how dare we have a working democracy!
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-01-20 7:42 PM
How is it not a working democracy for the Senate leader to have a frank discussion with the President in private, as opposed to a granstanding statement that hurts our diplomatic efforts?
Quote:

the G-man said:
How is it not a working democracy for the Senate leader to have a frank discussion with the President in private, as opposed to a granstanding statement that hurts our diplomatic efforts?



i can see your point. but this is Bush's fault. He spent years with signing statements, pissing on the constitution, and basically saying the president is above the congress. So now the congress is playing by the new rules he set down.
Posted By: PJP Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-01-20 7:59 PM
the GOP did this to Clinton a few times too......I hope this shit ends in 2008 whoever wins.....but it won't.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-01-20 10:14 PM
Quote:

Karl Hungus said:
i can see your point. but this is Bush's fault. He spent years with signing statements, pissing on the constitution




Even assuming that were to be the case, and I do not concede it to be, is it really your position that the democrats should let Iran go nuclear just to play "tit for tat" with the President?
Would he have it any other way?
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-01-21 9:16 AM
Quote:

the G-man said:
Quote:

Karl Hungus said:
i can see your point. but this is Bush's fault. He spent years with signing statements, pissing on the constitution




Even assuming that were to be the case, and I do not concede it to be, is it really your permission that the democrats should let Iran go nuclear just to play "tit for tat" with the President?





"Bush's fault. Bush's fault. BGAWWWWKK!!"


Geez man. Don't you guys ever let up?

You never miss an opportunity to absolve Democrats of blame, by demonizing Republicans and blaming it all on them.

Bush is not the first Republican you guys have demonized. If he was, I might say your attitude is an abberation caused by Bush.
How about acknowledging that the Carter and Clinton administrations might have just had maybe the teensy-est hand in causing global security issues in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, North Korea, China, and elsewhere?
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-01-21 8:02 PM
And, on the heels of Reid's announcement, comes the news that Iran plans to Test-Fire Missiles in Military Exercises

    Iran plans three days of military maneuvers, including short-range missile tests, beginning Sunday — its first since the U.N. Security Council imposed sanctions against it in late December, state-run television said.

    Sunday's maneuvers are to be the first by Iran since the U.N. Security Council imposed limited sanctions on the country on Dec. 23, banning selling materials and technology that could be used in Iran's nuclear and missile programs and freezing assets abroad of 10 Iranian companies and individuals.


I'm sure the timing is completely coincidental.

Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-01-25 8:55 PM
'PROOF' OF IRAN'S ROLE

    The United States will present evidence of Iranian agents' hostile activities in Iraq soon

    A number of Iranian officials have been detained in U.S. raids in the past month, and U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Zalmay Khalilzad told reporters that the accusations against them would be made public soon.

    Washington accuses Iran of helping arm, train and fund Iraqi militants.


and

    The U.S. ambassador said yesterday that one of the Iranians detained by U.S. forces in Iraq during two raids over the past month was the director of operations for Iran's Revolutionary Guard Quds faction, the organization responsible for funding and arming Iraqi terrorists.

    At least eight Iranians have been detained in Iraq recently, including two diplomats in a Dec. 21 roundup of a group of 10 suspects. The diplomats were interrogated and released to Iranian officials eight days later.

    Six others were captured Jan. 11 at an Iranian liaison office in the northern city of Irbil. One was released and five are still believed in U.S. custody.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-01-26 8:48 PM
Quote:

the G-man said:
Democratic leaders in Congress lobbed a warning shot Friday at the White House not to launch an attack against Iran without first seeking approval from lawmakers...

if we can't credibly threaten military action, then retarding the Iranians' nuclear progress through diplomacy--which is what the Democrats claim to want--becomes absolutely impossible. You need the carrot and the stick.

If they can't bring themselves to give the President an authorization at this point for an attack on Iran, can the Democratic leadership at least refrain from loudly proclaiming their intention to block it?




And, on the heels of the Democrats preemptive surrender comes the news that Iran is going to assemble thousands of centrifuges, in an underground facility starting next month.

Again, I'm sure the timing is completely coincidental.
Posted By: PJP Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-01-26 9:24 PM
Praise Allah and his allies Clinton, Reid and Obama!
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-01-27 2:26 AM
Iran wants senior atom inspector out

    Iran, cranking up a war of nerves with the West, has demanded the removal of the official running U.N. nuclear inspections, diplomats said on Friday.

    Tehran’s move, following a ban on 38 inspectors from four major Western nations announced on Monday, appeared aimed at testing Western resolve over its disputed nuclear activity while stopping short of violating the Non-Proliferation Treaty


Again, thanks to Harry Reid for helping inspire Iran's confidence that they can get away with this.
Posted By: PJP Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-01-27 2:29 AM
Quote:

PJP said:
Praise Allah and his allies Clinton, Reid and Obama!


Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-02-04 10:40 PM
Iranian Nuclear Scientist 'Assassinated'

    Israeli security service, Mossad, may have killed prize-winning physicist who worked at plant where uranium gas is produced
Posted By: Pariah Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-02-05 1:42 AM
Quote:

the G-man said:
Iranian Nuclear Scientist 'Assassinated'

    Israeli security service, Mossad, may have killed prize-winning physicist who worked at plant where uranium gas is produced





Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-02-15 3:58 PM
Quote:

the G-man said:
Quote:

the G-man said:
Democratic leaders in Congress lobbed a warning shot Friday at the White House not to launch an attack against Iran without first seeking approval from lawmakers...

if we can't credibly threaten military action, then retarding the Iranians' nuclear progress through diplomacy--which is what the Democrats claim to want--becomes absolutely impossible. You need the carrot and the stick.

If they can't bring themselves to give the President an authorization at this point for an attack on Iran, can the Democratic leadership at least refrain from loudly proclaiming their intention to block it?




And, on the heels of the Democrats preemptive surrender comes the news that Iran is going to assemble thousands of centrifuges, in an underground facility starting next month.

Again, I'm sure the timing is completely coincidental.




Add Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton to the list of Democratic Senators publicly supporting Iran's nuclear bid:

Quote:

Matter-eater Man said:

    It would be a mistake of historical proportion if the administration thought that the 2002 resolution authorizing force against Iraq was a blank check for the use of force against Iran without further Congressional authorization.

    Nor should the president think that the 2002 resolution authorizing force after the terrorist attacks of 9/11 in any way authorizes force against Iran. If the administration believes that any, any use of force against Iran is necessary, the president must come to Congress to seek that authority.


Hillary Clinton




So, now the 2008 Democratic frontrunner has publicly told Iran that Bush may not have the authority to attack them if they continue building a nuclear weapon.

Good show, Hillary.
Posted By: the G-man U.S. ALREADY IN IRAN? - 2007-02-25 8:49 PM
MAG: U.S. IS ALREADY INSIDE IRAN

    A Pentagon panel has been created to plan a potential bombing attack in Iran - and some troops have already entered the country, chasing Iranian operatives, according to a report in The New Yorker

    The panel initially focused on destroying Iran's nuclear facilities and on regime change.

    It has more recently been directed to identify Iranian targets that may be involved in supplying or aiding militants in Iraq, according to an Air Force adviser and a Pentagon consultant
Posted By: Pig Iran Re: U.S. ALREADY IN IRAN? - 2007-02-25 8:56 PM
That article says: The article, citing unnamed current and former U.S. officials, also said the Bush administration had received unconfirmed intelligence from Israel that Iran had developed an intercontinental missile capable of reaching targets in Europe.

Well, this is old news if you read Jane's or any of a bazillion other defense or military source magazines. The Russians and have been giving (selling) the Iranians missile technology for a looong time, and they had this capability at least 1 year ago.
Posted By: PJP Re: U.S. ALREADY IN IRAN? - 2007-02-25 10:18 PM
Delta Force and Chuck Norris coming to get you muslim scumbags!
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: U.S. ALREADY IN IRAN? - 2007-02-25 10:59 PM
come with me....



IF YOU WANT TO LIVE!
Posted By: the G-man U.N. Fails on Iran Sanctions - 2007-03-12 5:03 PM
U.N. Security Council Fails To Agree on Iran Sanctions

    U.S. and Europe call for tougher measures than Russia and China are willing to accept in meeting at Britain's U.N. Mission


Meanwhile, Iran Issues Bank Note With Nuke Symbol Amid Standoff

Maybe we should just strike first and wipe them off the map.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: U.N. Fails on Iran Sanctions - 2007-03-17 6:33 AM
Quote:

the G-man said:

Meanwhile, Iran Issues Bank Note With Nuke Symbol Amid Standoff

Maybe we should just strike first and wipe them off the map.





Iran's new bank note combines 3 thematic images and colors:
  • a nuclear symbol,
  • colors evocative of a nuclear explosion,
  • and Koran prophecy of Islamic global dominance through
    "Science".
Clearly expressing the radical intent to use nuclear weapons
for violent Jihad.

An Iran that is already the world's largest exporter of islamic terrorism and
suicide bombers.


And yet liberals are afraid that Bush is a Christian who believes in
Armageddon?

Would that they held a far more radical Iran to the same standard, a nation
with a far clearer intent to move the world toward Armageddon.


Posted By: the G-man Re: U.N. Fails on Iran Sanctions - 2007-03-22 3:39 AM
Iran's Top Leader: We Will Pursue Nuclear Activities Regardless of Sanctions

    Iran's top leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei warned on Wednesday that the country will pursue nuclear activities outside international regulations if the U.N. Security Council insists it stop uranium enrichment.

    "Until today, what we have done has been in accordance with international regulations," Khamenei said. "But if they take illegal actions, we too can take illegal actions and will do so."

    Iran's top leader also issued a stark warning to the United States, saying Iran will "use all its capacities to strike" its enemies if his country is attacked.

    The top five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council have drawn up new sanctions meant to punish Iran for rejecting U.N. demands it halt the controversial enrichment — a key process that can produce fuel for a reactor or the material for a nuclear warhead.
Posted By: Beardguy57 Re: U.N. Fails on Iran Sanctions - 2007-03-22 4:51 AM
Iran having nukes is about as good a thing as someone going back in time and giving one particular tribe of cavemen circa 80 thousand years BC all AK 47's.

Can you say "Armegeddon? "
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test BRITISH Nukes - 2007-03-24 6:02 AM
Iranian Vessels Seize 15 British Navy Personnel in Iraqi Waters

    Naval forces of Iran's hardline Revolutionary Guards captured 15 British sailors and marines at gunpoint Friday in the Persian Gulf — an audacious move coming during heightened tensions between the West and Iran.

    U.S. and British officials said a boarding party from the frigate HMS Cornwall was seized about 10:30 a.m. during a routine inspection of a merchant ship inside Iraqi territorial waters near the disputed Shatt al-Arab waterway.

    Iran's Foreign Ministry insisted the Britons were operating in Iranian waters and would be held "for further investigation," Iranian state television said.

    Britain's Defense Ministry said the Royal Navy personnel were "engaged in routine boarding operations of merchant shipping in Iraqi territorial waters" and had completed a ship inspection when they were accosted by Iranian vessels.

    The eight Royal Navy sailors and seven Royal Marines were part of a task force that protects Iraqi oil terminals and maintains security in Iraqi waters under authority of the U.N. Security Council.


We really, really, need to nuke Tehran.
Posted By: PJP Re: Iran Volunteers to Test BRITISH Nukes - 2007-03-24 3:05 PM
I have a feeling this will start a major World War......give it 3 more months.
Posted By: PJP Re: Iran Volunteers to Test BRITISH Nukes - 2007-03-24 3:15 PM
TIME Magazine article

Friday, Mar. 23, 2007

Why Iran Seized the British Marines

By Howard Chua-Eoan/New York

The most ominous detail about Iran's seizure of 15 British Royal Marines in the Shatt-al-Arab waterway on Friday morning is that the servicemen were reportedly taken into custody by the navy of the Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC). The IRGC is a powerful, separate branch of the Iranian armed forces. Soaked with nationalist ideology, it has grown into a state within a state in Iran, with its own naval, air and ground forces, parallel to official government institutions. The IRGC is directly controlled by Supreme Leader Ayatullah Ali Khamenei, the ultimate font of religious and political power in Iran. The IRGC also has its own intelligence arm and commands irregular forces such as the basij — a voluntary paramilitary group affiliated with President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad — and the Quds force, which has been accused by the U.S. of supplying material to Iraqi insurgents bent on killing American soldiers. The IRGC is also known for its clandestine activities including logistical support for militant organizations like Lebanon's Hizballah, which it helped to set up in the 1980s, and several Shi'a militia groups in Iraq. The IRGC's activities are often a thorn in the side of Iran's Foreign Ministry, which is forced to repair the ruptures in Tehran's diplomatic relations with countries the Guard has inflamed with its self-directed adventures. Nevertheless, it has been one of Iran's main instrument in projecting power and influence over the last few decades.

Because the IRGC's actions are always interwoven with the religious-nationalist ideology of Iran's hardliners, extricating the British may be complicated. The Royal Marines, assigned to HMS Cornwall, had been on an anti-smuggling procedure sanctioned by the U.N. but were apparently taken into custody anyway by Iranian naval vessels in the Shatt-al-Arab, a 120-mile stretch of salt marsh disputed between Iraq and Iran. It is the second such incident. In June 2004, Iran took eight British marines and sailors from their patrol boats, keeping them for three days, saying they had breached the maritme border. While they were held, the servicemen were paraded around blindfolded and forced to apologize on Iranian TV, before being released. At that time, the Iranian presidency was held by Mohammad Khatami, considered a moderate more accommodating to the West. The current administration in Tehran is led by Ahmadinejad whose confrontational stance has been the bane of Washington. (In a recent speech, U.S. Treasury Secretary Stuart Levey charged that the Revolutionary Guard's "control and influence in the Iranian economy is growing exponentially under the regime of Ahmadinejad." He noted the Guard is taking over regular government functions such as management of the Tehran airport and building a new Tehran metro. The growing economic clout may be why IRGC's current commander in chief, Rahim Safavi, is considered a pragmatist in Tehran political circles. However, his public comments hardly reflect that political pragmatism.

This week's Shatt al-Arab incident occurs amid a contretemps over Ahmadinejad's proposed trip to the U.N. Security Council to argue for his country's right to pursue the development of nuclear energy, a goal that has met with international opprobrium. According to CNN, the Iranian president has cancelled his weekend trip because Washington has not issued visas for the crew of his plane. (The U.S. State Department insists that all visa requests were honored.) At the same time, Tehran remains in the middle of a dispute with the United States over the detention in January of six of its officials in the Iraqi city of Erbil, taken from the Iranian consulate there. The U.S. insists the six were being investigated in regard to aiding Iraqi insurgents. Washington has referred all inquiries in the current incident to the British Ministry of Defense.

As Iran increases the volume of its militancy, the rest of the nations on the gulf have grown more and more nervous. The public speculation about a potential war between the U.S. and Iran have added to that anxiety, as have incidents like the taking of the British marines and an earlier event in March when the Saudi Arabian navy engaged an Iranian submarine. No shots were fired but the Saudis found the sub near the Saudi city of Jubail, a coastal industrial center that is the site of major Saudi petrochemical and oil installations, as well as the location of the King Abdul Aziz naval base. The Saudis minimized the incident, accepting the Iranian explanatin that the sub's closeness to Jubail was a mistake. The Saudis also did not want to further stress relations between Riyadh and Tehran. But an Arab surce in the gulf believes that the incident may have been an Iranian political message to the U.S. and the world — a reminder that Iran has assets in the gulf to threaten American and its allies there. Reported by Scott Macleod/Cairo, Jumana Farouky/London and Elaine Shannon/Washington
Posted By: PJP Re: Iran Volunteers to Test BRITISH Nukes - 2007-03-24 3:38 PM
My guess is Germany, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan will be on board this time around. Russia and China will simply remain silent. I hope the Iranians like German Blitzkrieg!
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test BRITISH Nukes - 2007-04-01 7:28 PM
Iranians Protest at British Embassy

    About 200 students threw rocks and firecrackers at the British Embassy on Sunday, calling for the expulsion of the country's ambassador because of the standoff over Iran's capture of 15 British sailors and marines.

    Several dozen policemen prevented the protesters from entering the embassy compound, although a few briefly scaled a fence outside the compound's walls before being pushed back, according to an Associated Press reporter at the scene.

    The protesters chanted ''Death to Britain'' and ''Death to America'' as they hurled stones into the courtyard of the embassy. They also demanded that the Iranian government expel the British ambassador and close down the embassy, calling it a ''den of spies.''

    Britain's Foreign Office said there had been no damage to the compound.

    A British Foreign Office spokeswoman in London, speaking on condition of anonymity in line with government rules, said diplomats were working normally inside the embassy.

    ''There is a police presence outside and there is no risk to those inside,'' said the spokeswoman.


You'd think after almost three decades of experience of Iran's use of kidnapping as a tool of foreign policy that the British embassy guards would by now have been authorized to shoot in self-defense. But apparently no.
Posted By: the G-man Iran to Build 2 Nuclear Power Plants - 2007-04-15 5:12 PM
Iran to Build 2 Nuclear Power Plants:Tehran seeking bids for new power plants despite international pressure to curb the nation's controversial nuke program.
Posted By: Beardguy57 Re: Iran Volunteers to Test BRITISH Nukes - 2007-04-16 5:25 AM
Quote:

PJP said:
I have a feeling this will start a major World War......give it 3 more months.




It's the end of the world as we know it... and I feel fine..
Posted By: the G-man IRAN MAKING 'NUKE BOMB' FUEL - 2007-04-19 7:11 PM
IRAN MAKING 'NUKE BOMB' FUEL

    Iran has begun producing nuclear fuel in its underground uranium-enrichment plant, according to a confidential document from the U.N. atomic watchdog.

    The document, obtained yesterday by news services, said Tehran had started up 1,312 centrifuge machines, divided into eight cascades, or networks, in the Natanz complex, in an accelerating campaign to lay a basis for "industrial scale" enrichment.

    Both moves flew in the face of U.N. Security Council resolutions demanding that President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's government stop enriching uranium over fears that its professed civilian nuclear-power program is a cover for mastering the means to build atomic bombs.

    Tehran says it seeks only nuclear-generated electricity. But its past concealment of sensitive enrichment research from the International Atomic Energy Agency and continued stonewalling of IAEA inquiries have shaken confidence in its intentions.
Posted By: the G-man Ex-Nuke Worker Took Codes to Iran - 2007-04-22 6:03 PM
Former Nuke Plant Engineer Allegedly Took Access Codes to Iran

    A former engineer at the nation's largest nuclear power plant has been charged with taking computer access codes and software to Iran and using it to download details of plant control rooms and reactors, authorities said.

    Mohammad Alavi, who worked at the triple-reactor Palo Verde power plant west of Phoenix, was arrested April 9 at Los Angeles International Airport when he arrived on a flight from Iran, authorities said.

    Alavi, 49, is a U.S. citizen and denies any wrongdoing, said his attorney, Milagros Cisneros of the Federal Defender's Office in Phoenix.

    According to court records, the software is used only for training plant employees, but allowed users access to details on the Palo Verde control rooms and the plant layout. In October, authorities alleged, the software was used to download training materials from Tehran, using a Palo Verde user identification.


I wonder what religion "Mohammed Alavi" practices? Probably a nice Irish Catholic boy...
He could be Catholic, the name suggests he isn't but then again plenty of people like presidential candidate Obama for example have a name that suggest he's not a Christian when in fact he is. That is all besides the point though. If the guy is guilty it doesn't matter if he practices a more acceptable religion or not.
Posted By: PJP Re: Ex-Nuke Worker Took Codes to Iran - 2007-04-22 6:36 PM
Yeah Obama is a Christian....That's the ticket!

Posted By: the G-man Re: Ex-Nuke Worker Took Codes to Iran - 2007-04-22 6:45 PM
Posted By: PJP Re: Ex-Nuke Worker Took Codes to Iran - 2007-04-22 7:13 PM
we're probably the only ones that remember that.
The Liar!
Posted By: the G-man IRAN PREZ BOASTS: NUKE PROGRAM HITTING 'PEAK' - 2007-05-25 10:14 PM
IRAN PREZ BOASTS: NUKE PROGRAM HITTING 'PEAK'

    Iran's nuclear work is nearing a "peak," President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said yesterday, while the U.N. atomic watchdog chief said Tehran was probably at least three years from making atom bombs if it chose to do so.

    Ahmadinejad dismissed Western pressure on Iran to halt its nuclear drive.

    "With God's help, the path to completely enjoying all nuclear capacity is near its end, and we are close to the peak," he told a rally in the central Iranian town of Isfahan.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-06-03 10:43 PM
Ahmadinejad: Israel's End Is Near: Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says the world soon will see the destruction of Israel.

The imminent destruction of Israel, of course, would require weapons of mass destruction.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-06-24 7:06 PM
Rice Rejects Lowering Bar for Iran Talks

 Quote:
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice maintained a firm line Sunday against efforts to soften conditions for Iran to enter talks over its disputed nuclear program, dismissing as "chatter" discussions among U.S. allies about a new approach.

British, French and German officials have begun debating whether to tolerate something less than a full freeze on Iran's work to enrich uranium, an ingredient for both civilian nuclear power or a bomb, officials in Vienna told The Associated Press on Friday.

Germany was supportive of such a concession, while France was opposed and Britain noncommittal, said the officials, who included U.S. and European diplomats and government employees. They said the talks were preliminary, and that nothing had been decided.

Rice said in her discussions with other diplomats she has sensed no willingness to back off conditions that Iran's European and United Nations negotiating partners had set to begin formal talks.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-09-22 5:49 PM
Iran Flaunts Military Might

  • Threats and economic sanctions will not stop Iran's technological progress, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad warned Saturday at a large parade featuring fighter jets and radar-avoiding missiles designed to show off the country's military might.

    The military parade outside the capital Tehran marked the 27th anniversary of the Iraqi invasion of Iran that sparked the bloody 1980-88 war. Iran used the parade to display its latest weapons, including radar-avoiding missiles, super-fast torpedoes, unmanned surveillance drones, battle tanks and other domestically produced weapons.

    Some of the trucks carrying Iranian missiles were painted at the back the popular slogans: "Down with the U.S." and "Down with Israel."

    The parade also featured flights by two of Iran's new domestically manufactured fighter jets, known as the Saegheh, which means lightening in Farsi.


Meanwhile, the worst President of all time, Jimmy Carter, says Iran is not a threat to Israel.

Yeah, and if there's a guy who understands and knows how to handle crazies in Iran, it's Jimmy Carter.

But if you're Israel, I think it would be dangerous to think like Carter and err on the side of assuming that Iranians will behave rationally.

One nuclear attack could effectively destroy Israel, so the risk of allowing Iran to acquire nuclear weapons should be viewed as unacceptable.

This does not even take into account the possibility that Iran, consistently the world's leading state sponsor of terrorism, would pass nuclear material to a terrorist group such as Israel's direct enemies Hamas and Hezbollah, which are provided weapons and financing from Iran.

Even if Iranians do neither of those things, the strategic leverage they would gain from having nuclear weapons by itself is enough reason for Israel to do whatever it takes to prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons.... assuming the U.S. does not act first.
 Originally Posted By: the G-man
...

Meanwhile, the worst President of all time, Jimmy Carter, says Iran is not a threat to Israel.
....


Despite the headline though Carter didn't say that.
 Quote:
Carter: Iran No Threat to Israel Now
Sep 19 11:35 PM US/Eastern
By DOUG GROSS
Associated Press Writer


Syria Accuses Israel of BombingATLANTA (AP) - Former President Jimmy Carter said Wednesday that it was almost inconceivable that Iran would "commit suicide" by launching missiles at Israel.

Speaking at Emory University, Carter, who brokered the 1979 Camp David peace accord between Israel and Egypt, said Israel's superior military power and distance from Iran likely are enough to discourage an actual attack.

"Iran is quite distant from Israel," said Carter, 83. "I think it would be almost inconceivable that Iran would commit suicide by launching one or two missiles of any kind against the nation of Israel."

Iran's deputy air force commander said Wednesday that Israel is within range of Iran's medium-range missiles and bombers and that Tehran would strike back if Israel "makes a silly mistake."

The White House said the comments almost sound geared toward provoking a fight and Israeli officials said they take the threats seriously.

Carter did not dismiss the idea that Iran might want to attack Israel, noting Iran's refusal to suspend uranium enrichment production despite two United Nations resolutions imposing sanctions on the country. Tehran insists its nuclear program is aimed at producing energy for civilian use but the U.S., its European allies and many others fear the program's real aim is to produce nuclear weapons.

"Obviously, we all hope we can do whatever we can to keep Iran from becoming a nuclear power," Carter said.

Carter said unease between Israel and Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank is a far greater threat to Israel's security than Iran. He criticized the Bush administration for not doing enough to broker peace in the region.

G-man's link
From what he said it seems like a pretty good reading of the situation. He's not discounting that Iran would attack Isreal & keeping Iran from becoming a nuclear power falls into the do whatever we can category.
how the hell is Jimmy Carter the worst President ever? Bush has made so many mistakes that we'll be paying for his administration for decades.
I suppose it always makes Bush look a little better if another President can be made to look worse. Carter isn't going to go down as one of the greatest Presidents but he didn't start a war over bad intel & keep working that bad intel to justify bad call after bad call.
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
I suppose it always makes Bush look a little better if another President can be made to look worse. Carter isn't going to go down as one of the greatest Presidents but he didn't start a war over bad intel & keep working that bad intel to justify bad call after bad call.

don't forget record vacation days and deficit, low approval ratings, and many acts that experts consider breaches of constitutional rights.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-09-23 6:07 PM
Don't get me wrong. Bush isn't doing a good job. But, aside from the war (which some would say is going much better now), every screw-up he's had pales next to the failures of Carter.

Furthermore, Carter may not have started a shooting war, but his bungled handling of foreign policy, from the Soviet Union to the Middle East (most notably the Iranian situation), planted the seeds for nearly ever problem that subsequent Presidents, including Bush, have faced ever since.

Add in a shitty economy, scandals in his administration and his whining about malaise (effectively blaming the American people for his own failures) and there's little doubt that Carter is the worst.
 Originally Posted By: the G-man
Don't get me wrong. Bush isn't doing a good job. But, aside from the war (which some would say is going much better now), every screw-up he's had pales next to the failures of Carter.

Furthermore, Carter may not have started a shooting war, but his bungled handling of foreign policy, from the Soviet Union to the Middle East (most notably the Iranian situation), planted the seeds for nearly ever problem that subsequent Presidents, including Bush, have faced ever since.

Add in a shitty economy, scandals in his administration and his whining about malaise (effectively blaming the American people for his own failures) and there's little doubt that Carter is the worst.



oh, so when you compare Bush to Carter you don't count shooting wars that go against international opinion and cause hundreds of thousands of deaths based on either on lies or faulty intelligence? you don't see that as being worth counting?
the Iraq debacle alone counts him as the worst. It's like saying "other than the double murder, OJ is a pretty friendly guy."
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-09-23 6:37 PM
No, I counted the war. But even doing so, Carter still comes out worse than Bush. Trust me. I'm a lot older than you. I lived through the Carter administration. Those four years were worse than the eight under Bush.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-09-23 6:47 PM
In any event, getting back on the topic of Iran:

Ahmadinejad Heads to U.S.: Iran's incendiary president departs for New York where protests abound

I also note that this guy is still claiming that Sanctions Will Not Stop Nuclear Progress, which probably goes a long way to explaining reports that the U.S. is planning a potential strike on Iran.
Posted By: the G-man Iran: Homosexuals would get death Penalty - 2007-09-25 10:14 PM
Homosexuals Get the Death Penalty in Iran.

You would think this would make guys like Kabul Zick less likely to defend radical Islam and people like Bin Laden and the mad mullahs.
Associated Press:

  • Hillary Rodham Clinton called Barack Obama naive when he said he'd meet with the leaders of Iran without precondition.

    But asked about it Thursday by a voter, the New York senator said twice that she, too, would negotiate with Iran "with no conditions."

    "I would engage in negotiations with Iran, with no conditions, because we don't really understand how Iran works. We think we do, from the outside, but I think that is misleading," she said at an apple orchard.

    Clinton on Thursday also characterized her recent vote to label Iran's Revolutionary Guard Corps a terrorist organization as a way to gain leverage for those negotiations.
so this thread is really about g-man attacking people here and hillary clinton.
So, what are you saying, Ray? That how a presidential candidate proposes to deal with a very serious foreign policy issue (in this case, Iran) is irrelevant evaluating their candidacy?

Oh, and Bush isn't running. So any answer about what he has or hasn't done is irrelevant.

i'm saying you made the same post on the hillary thread and the last I checked "Kabul Zick" isn't running for president.
i'm saying you had one bullet for hillary and you decided to fire it twice at two threads instead of one.
i'm saying this whole thread seems to be just you posting about some country you don't like.
i'm saying that you're an asshole.
i'm saying that i don't like salt, or at least only in small quantities.
i'm saying that cheese is best when it's not the overly processed shit that's served in fast food.
and i'm saying that you sir have the manners of a warthog and the class of the warthog's dung.
So, what you're really saying is that you don't think a country run by crazy Muslim extremists who have all but promised to wipe a couple of other countries off the map, and who keep promising to build a nuclear bomb, is a problem worth discussing?

Posted By: Matter-eater Man HILLARY IN 08! - 2007-10-12 8:36 PM
I think if you look at the question she originally answered it was about her meeting with these countries. Her position on that hasn't changed but she is willing to talk to these countries. This is compared to Bush threatening to attack them & not so they get some time to arm up if we do attack them.
We don't want to be mean to them!
Posted By: Matter-eater Man Hillary on 08 - 2007-10-12 8:44 PM
Well you can count on Hillary being tough
Posted By: Captain Sammitch Re: Hillary on 08 - 2007-10-12 8:46 PM
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Well you can count on Hillary being tough


Are you sure you're gay, dude? Because you seem to have it pretty bad...
Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man Re: Hillary on 08 - 2007-10-12 9:40 PM
 Originally Posted By: the G-man
So, what you're really saying is that you don't think a country run by crazy Muslim extremists who have all but promised to wipe a couple of other countries off the map, and who keep promising to build a nuclear bomb, is a problem worth discussing?


did you post about Iran or did you post about Hillary? And do you ever post an honest examination of Iran that studies all the variables or do you just post "Iran wants to eat your puppy" style posts?
you don't want discussions, g-man.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Wants to Nuke Your Puppies - 2007-10-12 9:51 PM
The President of Iran---saying he wants to die a martyr and Israel doesn't have a right to exist, all while bragging he's going to build nukes to accomplish both--is doing a pretty good job of making himself into a villain without any help from me.

That being said, the thread is not just about how "Iran is bad." It's also about how various people, governments and presidential candidates propose to deal with that. Accordingly, saying "Hillary's plan has changed" is well within the topics dealt with to date.
 Originally Posted By: the G-man
The President of Iran---saying he wants to die a martyr and Israel doesn't have a right to exist, all while bragging he's going to build nukes to accomplish both--is doing a pretty good job of making himself into a villain without any help from me.

I really think a lot of that is just bs like a lot of the tough talk threats made during the cold war.
Besides, you do know that he's not the same as the President here. His office is beneath that of the Supreme Leader.

 Quote:
That being said, the thread is not just about how "Iran is bad." It's also about how various people, governments and presidential candidates propose to deal with that. Accordingly, saying "Hillary's plan has changed" is well within the topics dealt with to date.

but you posted it in both and you know you only did it to attack her. Same as how the post above that is you attacking MEM. Is MEM running for president?
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Wants to Nuke Your Puppies - 2007-10-13 2:31 AM
Ray, you really need to drop the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" schtick when it comes to guys like the President of Iran.

We all know that you hate Bush. But that doesn't mean that you have to support every two bit dictator and Islamo-fascist that also hates him.

Some of these guys are bad news. The one running Iran is one of those.
 Originally Posted By: the G-man
Ray, you really need to drop the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" schtick when it comes to guys like the President of Iran.

We all know that you hate Bush. But that doesn't mean that you have to support every two bit dictator and Islamo-fascist that also hates him.

Some of these guys are bad news. The one running Iran is one of those.

now right there you didn't try and have a discussion about the tensions with Iran. You attacked me for simply suggesting it wasn't as serious as you were saying. In other words you attacked someone for disagreeing. And you implied I support dictators. All a personal attack on your part.
Posted By: whomod Re: Iran Wants to Nuke Your Puppies - 2007-10-25 10:00 PM


HAPPY HALLOWEEN!!!!!

Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Wants to Nuke Your Puppies - 2007-10-26 9:06 PM
Iranian Troops Stage Anti-American, Anti-Israel Exhibition


  • Iran's military used its feet this week to send a clear message to the United States and Israel.

    A colorful inspection exercise staged for Iranian leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and broadcast on Iranian TV featured precision drill teams massing into an American flag with a swastika and a Star of David, each "stabbed" by a formation of the Zulfiqar, the legendary scimitar of the Islamic leader Ali.

    Khamenei is shown in the broadcast inspecting the drill teams, which chant to him, "Khamenei, we are your soldiers. Khamenei, at your command," according to a translation provided by the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI).

    One of the military formations spells out the words, "National Unity," MEMRI reported.

    The announcer then tells viewers, " The army of the Islamic Republic of Iran is the contemporary Zulfiqar — the sword of Ali."

    He goes on to say: "The faces of these warriors are radiant with love of the revolution. Together with such mythical heroes, once again we can chant epic poems about the aspirations, and relive the memory of those eight years of identity and bravery. We shout the glory of the name of Iran on the summit of fame and dignity. Our proud Iran is proud of you – its brave children."

    The exhibition comes as the chief of Iran's elite Revolutionary Guards shrugged off harsh new U.S. sanctions that are the most sweeping since 1979, saying "the corps is ready to defend the ideals of the revolution more than ever before.


I'm sure Ray will be along to explain how this behavior, complete with Nazi imagry, is completely reasonable in the face of the greater evil presented by George Bush.
Posted By: whomod Re: Iran Wants to Nuke Your Puppies - 2007-10-26 9:55 PM
It's a shame that some people still subscribe enthusiastically to more of the neocon 'remaking the middle east wars' when we're already overextended in Iraq and Afghanistan and Al Queda is still safe in Pakistan.

On Thursday’s Hardball Sen. Jim Webb (D-VA) talked with Chris Matthews about the strong push from Dick Cheney and some members of the Senate — namely Kyl and Lieberman — to move closer to invading Iran. Matthews gets it, by passing amendments condemning Iran, they’re tying to get other legislators on the record so they can come back later and use it to make the case for war.




Very insightful piece of video. It sounds like those war hawks sure know how to maneuver so they could come up with some manipulative sound bites afterwards.

Thank God for Jim Webb. Can you imagine if George Allen had gotten re-elected? Instead of one more administration puppet pushing for war with Iran we have a former Navy man who has a particular interest in the Middle East (his son) who really cares about the repercussions our actions may have in that region of the world. The Democrats, playing checkers (badly) while Cheney is playing chess, may not have gotten our troops out of Iraq yet, but then I think about George Allen and Rick Santorum and then sigh with relief.

So who's up for another war?
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Wants to Nuke Your Puppies - 2007-10-26 10:19 PM
I don't think the "Hawks" are, at this point, contemplating a protracted ground war against Iran. I think they are building up to the idea of quick raids and air strikes as necessary. More akin to Gulf War I than the current Iraq war.
Posted By: Captain Sammitch Re: Iran Wants to Nuke Your Puppies - 2007-10-27 12:11 AM
Or we could just push the button?
Posted By: Captain Sammitch Re: Iran Wants to Nuke Your Puppies - 2007-10-27 12:12 AM
No ground war, none of our troops in danger, no resurgents left to... resurge...
Posted By: Captain Sammitch Re: Iran Wants to Nuke Your Puppies - 2007-10-27 12:12 AM
Just saying is all.
Posted By: King Snarf Re: Iran Wants to Nuke Your Puppies - 2007-10-27 4:57 AM
You know, maybe if the U.S. had paid a little attention to the free elections in Iran a few years ago instead of, I don't know, say, LOOKING FOR WMDS THAT DIDN'T EXIST the problem might not be so bad now....
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Wants to Nuke Your Puppies - 2007-10-27 5:00 AM
 Originally Posted By: King Snarf
You know, maybe if the U.S. had paid a little attention to the free elections in Iran a few years ago instead of, I don't know, say, LOOKING FOR WMDS THAT DIDN'T EXIST the problem might not be so bad now....


You're saying we should have invaded Iran instead?
Posted By: King Snarf Re: Iran Wants to Nuke Your Puppies - 2007-10-27 5:11 AM
No, but maybe some diplomatic visits to Iran would've convinced the Iranian people to elect a more moderate President than Ab... Abin... whatever.

The U.S. has gone into the Middle East in a half-assed fashion, and now it's turning into a giant clusterfuck. And it's only gonna get worse now that Iran appears to be on Russia's good side.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Wants to Nuke Your Puppies - 2007-10-27 5:54 AM
The leadership of Iran has been run by anti-American clerics since the days of Jimmy Carter.

The clerics, or "Council of Guardians," get to approve each and every presidential candidate. No one can run without their seal of approval. Do you really think anyone who might shake their grip on the country is going to get approved?

As such, a few more "diplomatic visits" wasn't going to break that stranglehold on the country, regardless of what Bush did or didn't do with Iraq.

Furthermore Iran has been on Russia's 'good side' for approximately the same amount of time. That wasn't something that started with Bush.

Finally, you must not understand what "diplomatic visits" are, if you think they are targeted at the voting public of any country. Diplomats work with the leaders of the government of that country. They don't work with the population to overthrow that leadership. In fact, that sort of "diplomacy" is usually considered "fostering insurrection" and could get our diplomats killed.
Posted By: King Snarf Re: Iran Wants to Nuke Your Puppies - 2007-10-27 6:11 AM
Well, what about "divestment"? Making sure American money doesn't get invested in Iran? Can't make nukes if you ain't got the scratch....
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Wants to Nuke Your Puppies - 2007-10-27 6:19 AM
By "divestment" I assume you are suggesting that the U.S. should have pursued a policy of not allowing investment in Iranian businesses.

The United States has engaged in sanctions against Iran since 1979. To date, they have been proven largely ineffective. Furthermore, given that we have had sanctions in place for nearly thirty years, I don't see how failing to invade Iraq would have affected "divestment" either way.
Posted By: King Snarf Re: Iran Wants to Nuke Your Puppies - 2007-10-27 7:19 AM
There was a gentleman on the Colbert Report a few weeks ago that made a compelling case. Wrote a book on the subject, I believe....
this is the worst star trek thread ever.
Posted By: Captain Sammitch Re: Iran Wants to Nuke Your Puppies - 2007-10-27 7:47 AM
 Originally Posted By: King Snarf
There was a gentleman on the Colbert Report a few weeks ago that made a compelling case. Wrote a book on the subject, I believe....


You know, I always get a laugh out of the Colbert Report. Maybe that's why it's on the Comedy Channel?
Posted By: King Snarf Re: Iran Wants to Nuke Your Puppies - 2007-10-27 8:26 AM
Oh, yeah, Presidential candidate Mike Huckabee is a laugh riot....
Posted By: Chant Re: Iran Wants to Nuke Your Puppies - 2007-10-27 1:59 PM
Actually, why don't we just let them test the nukes? we can place them right in the smack dang middle of Teheran...
Posted By: whomod Re: Iran Wants to Nuke Your Puppies - 2007-10-27 11:56 PM
 Originally Posted By: the G-man
I don't think the "Hawks" are, at this point, contemplating a protracted ground war against Iran. I think they are building up to the idea of quick raids and air strikes as necessary. More akin to Gulf War I than the current Iraq war.


And why exactly wouldn't Iran react and respond militarily to quick raids and air strikes?

And as with Iraq, would't you need ground forces to ensure that all the WMD's were accounted for and destroyed? After all, an air strike isn't going to guarantee you got 'em all.

Posted By: Captain Sammitch Re: Iran Wants to Nuke Your Puppies - 2007-10-27 11:58 PM
I know what would...
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Wants to Nuke Your Puppies - 2007-10-28 12:13 AM
 Originally Posted By: whomod
...why exactly wouldn't Iran react and respond militarily to quick raids and air strikes?


I'm sure they would. However, do you really think that they'd last long against our battery of cruise missles, jets and bombers?

You make a better point about the need for ground troops to uncover WMDs. If, however, the US knows where they are being built and plans on striking there early on, that's less of an issue.

Furthermore, the problem in Iraq isn't that we needed the troops for the actual war. The problem in Iraq was not planning properly for the resulting occupation.
Posted By: whomod Re: Iran Wants to Nuke Your Puppies - 2007-10-28 12:13 AM
Whatever developing news is used to justify beating the Iran war drum, it's still just the same old Neocon "transforming the Middle East" agenda from the PNAC.

 Quote:
Concern is also growing in the CIA and the Pentagon that the White House exaggerated intelligence used to justify an Israeli air raid on a suspected nuclear facility in Syria earlier this month, which some neo-conservatives hope is a precursor to war with Iran.

Bruce Reidel, a former CIA Middle East desk officer, said the neo-conservatives realised their influence would wane rapidly when Mr Bush left office in just over 15 months. "Whatever crazy idea they have to try to transform the Middle East, they have to push now. The real hardline neo-conservatives are getting desperate that the door of history is about to close on them with an epitaph of total failure."


Neocons seek to justify action against Teheran

Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Wants to Nuke Your Puppies - 2007-10-28 12:40 AM
 Originally Posted By: whomod

Bruce Reidel, a former CIA Middle East desk officer...


Reidel was a Clinton appointee. While this does not automatically disquaify him or his opinions, it does tend to show he may be somewhat biased against the Bush administration or its foreign policies.

Indeed, the flowery language Reidel employs in that article would seem to indicate a certain level of emotion against the "neo-cons."
Posted By: Battlekruse Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-10-28 3:38 PM
Tough actions

I predict is only about time before Israel bomb the Iran nuclear facilities in Bushehr even so its heavy guard by anti-aircraft guns. On September 6th an Israeli air-strike took out a Syrlan facility of some sort. Despite speculation that Syria might have been actively pur-suit nuclear weapons, Syria has maintained that it was an “unneused military facility or an agricultural research facility.” Israel has remainned silent, yet smug, about the resulets of the mission, which tells me that it involved something more than “unused military facility.”
[quote=the G-man]
Reidel was a Clinton appointee. While this does not automatically disquaify him or his opinions, it does tend to show he may be somewhat biased against the Bush administration or its foreign policies.

[quote]
i guess Clinton appointed most of the people in the world then. because that's the only way someone could be against Bush's policies.
Posted By: whomod Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-10-28 7:54 PM
I guess this is why Bush Sr. used to call the neocons "The crazies".

You already have 2 wars that aern't going so well because we're overextended but the neocons figure they can squeeze one more war in before bush leaves office and their opportunity to remake the middle east from the barrel of a gun might soon pass.
 Originally Posted By: whomod
I guess this is why Bush Sr. used to call the neocons "The crazies".

You already have 2 wars that aern't going so well because we're overextended but the neocons figure they can squeeze one more war in before bush leaves office and their opportunity to remake the middle east from the barrel of a gun might soon pass.


it kind of reminds me of when i play empire earth. i just attack whoever i want because i know the cheat codes for more money and to build instant troops.
maybe the neocons should hit google and find some cheat codes that allow low taxes and massive spending.
 Originally Posted By: Captain Sammitch
 Originally Posted By: King Snarf
There was a gentleman on the Colbert Report a few weeks ago that made a compelling case. Wrote a book on the subject, I believe....


You know, I always get a laugh out of the Colbert Report. Maybe that's why it's on the Comedy Channel?

it, like the daily show, is a satire. meaning that it presents real and truthful things and then pokes fun at them. but that doesn't really take away from either the validity of the jokes they're making (ie government wastes time) or from the serious guests that they book.
Posted By: King Snarf Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-10-29 8:06 AM
If only Iran had a rival that could distract Iran, forcing them to divert resources away from research. Such a country would be relatively the same in size and power and, ideally, right next to them. Oh, wait! There was such a country. The U.S. invaded and turned it into a clusterfuck.
maybe Iran should've been wooing the Bush family and giving us oil like the Saudis, then they could do whatever they want and we wouldn't care.
Posted By: King Snarf Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-10-29 8:20 AM
It's funny 'cause it's true!
Posted By: whomod Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-10-29 1:29 PM
 Originally Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man
 Originally Posted By: whomod
I guess this is why Bush Sr. used to call the neocons "The crazies".

You already have 2 wars that aern't going so well because we're overextended but the neocons figure they can squeeze one more war in before bush leaves office and their opportunity to remake the middle east from the barrel of a gun might soon pass.


it kind of reminds me of when i play empire earth. i just attack whoever i want because i know the cheat codes for more money and to build instant troops.
maybe the neocons should hit google and find some cheat codes that allow low taxes and massive spending.


Yes.

To think, how many tens of thousands of people would still be alive today and how our international reputation and our treasury would be if these nutbags would simply have went to a pajama party at William Kristol's House and played Risk or Empire Earth to test out their idiotic theories of conquest with imaginary people who welcome conquerors with open arms, candy, flowers. etc. rather than with real people who fight back and real soldiers who bleed, are maimed, and really die.

And the fucking enthusiasm they show for another war just goes to show their utter detachment from reality and their disregard for the humanity of it all.
Posted By: whomod Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-10-29 2:08 PM
Bill Maher to the GOP: Stop the Scaremongering on Iran!



Bill Maher is great. And his show is always very interesting.
Posted By: whomod Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-10-30 2:03 AM
"If I had the slightest interest in homosexuals with powers, I'd be a Republican!"

Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-11-16 7:08 PM
The Guardian:

  • Iran has installed 3,000 centrifuges for enriching uranium - enough to begin industrial-scale production of nuclear fuel and build a warhead within a year, the UN's nuclear watchdog reported last night.

    The report by Mohamed ElBaradei, director general of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), will intensify US and European pressure for tighter sanctions and increase speculation of a potential military conflict.


I'm not sure, but do a left-leaning newspaper from another country and an UN official with the IAEA count as "US scaremongering"?
Posted By: whomod Re: Iran Stopped Nuclear weapons work in 2003 - 2007-12-03 10:29 PM
Iran Stopped Nuclear weapons work in 2003

Yes, stopped in 2003. All this war-mongering towards Iran from Cheney, Bush, Kyl and Lieberman has been based on false and misleading information. The 16 U.S. intelligence agencies have concluded that Iran isn't in the process of building a nuke weapon -- and hasn't been for four years. That's according to an article just out from Mark Mazzetti at the New York Times:

 Quote:
A new assessment by American intelligence agencies concludes that Iran halted its nuclear weapons program in 2003 and that the program remains on hold, contradicting an assessment two years ago that Tehran was working inexorably toward building a bomb.

The conclusions of the new assessment are likely to be major factor in the tense international negotiations aimed at getting Iran to halt its nuclear energy program, and they come in the middle of a presidential campaign during which a possible military strike against Iran’s nuclear program has been discussed.

The assessment, a National Intelligence Estimate that represents the consensus view of all 16 American spy agencies, states that Tehran’s ultimate intentions about gaining a nuclear weapon remain unclear, but that Iran’s “decisions are guided by a cost-benefit approach rather than a rush to a weapon irrespective of the political, economic and military costs.”

“Some combination of threats of intensified international scrutiny and pressures, along with opportunities for Iran to achieve its security, prestige, and goals for regional influence in other ways might — if perceived by Iran’s leaders as credible — prompt Tehran to extend the current halt to its nuclear weapons program,” the estimate states.

The new report comes out just over five years after a deeply flawed N.I.E. concluded that Iraq possessed chemical and biological weapons programs and was determined to restart its nuclear program. The report led to congressional authorization for a military invasion of Iraq, although most of the N.I.E.’s conclusions turned out to be wrong. The estimate does say that Iran’s ultimate goal is still to develop nuclear weapons.

The new report concludes that if Iran were to end the freeze of its weapons program, it would still be at least two years before Tehran would have enough highly enriched uranium to produce a nuclear bomb. But it says it is still “very unlikely” Iran could produce enough of the material by then.

Instead, the N.I.E. concludes it is more likely Iran could have a bomb by the early part to the middle of the next decade. The report states that the State Department’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research judges Iran is unlikely to achieve this goal before 2013, “because of foreseeable technical and programmatic problems.”



Posted By: whomod Re: Iran Stopped Nuclear weapons work in 2003 - 2007-12-05 12:43 AM
I just went through Bush’s NIE presser and it was pretty disturbing all around. The war drumbeat against Iran has been going on for sooo long now. You can understand why this report shatters the Bush/Cheney doctrine of immorally—attacking–a–country—that hasn’t attacked us. It’s a virtual replay of their Iraq intelligence scam. NBC’s David Gregory, called Bush on his “hyping” this scam just like he did with Iraq. Bush ineffectually told David Gregory that he just got the results of the NIE report last week.



 Quote:
Q Mr. President, thank you. I’d like to follow on that. When you talked about Iraq, you and others in the administration talked about a mushroom cloud; then there were no WMD in Iraq. When it came to Iran, you said in October, on October 17th, you warned about the prospect of World War III, when months before you made that statement, this intelligence about them suspending their weapons program back in ‘03 had already come to light to this administration. So can’t you be accused of hyping this threat? And don’t you worry that that undermines U.S. credibility?

THE PRESIDENT: David, I don’t want to contradict an August reporter such as yourself, but I was made aware of the NIE last week. In August, I think it was Mike McConnell came in and said, we have some new information. He didn’t tell me what the information was; he did tell me it was going to take a while to analyze. Why would you take time to analyze new information? One, you want to make sure it’s not disinformation. You want to make sure the piece of intelligence you have is real. And secondly, they want to make sure they understand the intelligence they gathered: If they think it’s real, then what does it mean? And it wasn’t until last week that I was briefed on the NIE that is now public.




Not that it mattered to him, but Bush and Cheney and any number of warmongers go around spewing venom and trying to get the public behind another military strike while he’s waiting for the new intelligence to be verified? OK, I know there’s a neocon always needing a war fix—and probably has dark suspicions about the NIE report

And here’s what Stephen Hadley said yesterday.

 Quote:
Q Steve, when was the first time the President was given the inkling of something? I’m not clear on this. Was this months ago, when the first information started to become available to intelligence agencies?

MR. HADLEY: You ought to go back to the intelligence community. We will get you an answer on that. There’s two questions: one, when did they first get the information? — you ought to ask that to them — two, when was the President notified that there was new information available? We’ll try and get you a precise answer. As I say, it was, in my recollection, is in the last few months. Whether that is October — August, September, we’ll try and get you an answer to that.


I’m a big “Texas Hold em” fan and Josh Marshall caught a “tell” that indicates he knew before a week ago.

 Quote:
If you go back to his October 17th press conference, the one where he spoke of ‘World War III’ he changes his wording. It’s no longer the need to prevent the Iranians from getting the bomb. Now it’s the necessity of “preventing them from hav[ing] the knowledge necessary to make a nuclear weapon.”

That’s the tell.
That change is no accident. He wants claims that will survive the eventual revelation of this new intelligence — while also continuing to hype the imminence of the Iranian nuclear threat that his spy chiefs are telling him likely does not exist.


They’ve shifted their rules of engagement again to attacking a country for knowledge alone.

Scott Horton has more:

 Quote:
But one highly reliable intelligence community source I consulted immediately after Hadley spoke answered my question this way: “This is absolutely absurd. The NIE has been in substantially the form in which it was finally submitted for more than six months. The White House, and particularly Vice President Cheney, used every trick in the book to stop it from being finalized and issued. There was no last minute breakthrough that caused the issuance of the assessment.”


All I have to say in closing is I'm glad we waited and not attacked when The Kristols, Krauthammer's & the rest of the neocons were demanding that we do. If only we'd have waited before invading Iraq. But of course according to Rove on the talk show circuit last week, that was the Democrats fault too.




Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Nukes - 2007-12-05 1:08 AM
If indeed Iran stopped its nuclear-weapons program in 2003, is it a coincidence that this was the same year America made good on its threat of military force against Saddam Hussein's Iraq?

Also, I'm not sure why whomod (or anyone else) would accuse President Bush of being overly bellicose towards Iran. We've been rattling a saber for at least five years, but clearly we've spent more time trying diplomacy and hoping to foster reform from within. One would think accusing the US of a "let's-bomb-them-now approach" would entail actually bombing them, which of course the U.S. has not done.

In regards to the allegation that its some sort of "conspiracy" that this report wasn't released until now, I would submit that, to the extent that the NIE undercuts the credibility of the threat of military force, it reduces American leverage over Iran (and over our own allies) and thereby diminishes rather than enhances, the prospects for diplomatic success. That alone would be reason not to make it public. In fact, if the administration is subject to any criticism here, it's that releasing the NIE now seems to be signaling that it has decided to throw in the towel on dealing with the Iranian threat, leaving it for the next administration.

Finally, reading whomod's post, I see that what we really have here is more "Bush hate."

If one can have high confidence in the NIE findings, then those findings are good news for America. They mean that a regime that has repeatedly shown its hostility toward our country is less of a threat than we had reason to fear.

But we aren't seeing anyone celebrating the NIE as good news for America. The people (like whomod and his quoted sources) all seem to view it as a partisan document, a weapon to be used in their battle against the Bush administration.

To the Bush haters, it doesn't seem to matter how much of a threat Iran poses. Short-term political gain against the President is more important than the interests of America.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Iran Nukes - 2007-12-05 6:40 AM
This intelligence report evaluates that Iran's nuclear weapons program was likely (though not absolutely) suspended in 2003. It was just released yesterday.

Whomod acts like the Bush administration are a bunch of villainous liars, who have been deliberately exaggerating the nuclear capability of Iran. But the report was released yesterday. And again, it is not absolute.

There was no advance warning that North Korea was going nuclear.

There was no advance warning that Libya was going nuclear --until they chose to give up their nukes program to U.N. weapons inspectors, in fear of invasion after seeing Saddam Hussein's fate in 2003.

There was no advance notice of the fall of the Berlin wall, the collapse of Eastern Europe in 1989, or the fall of the Soviet Union itself in 1991.

So assurances that Iran poses no danger of going nuclear cannot be trusted 100%.


I see a nuclear-armed Iran as a very serious threat to global security, with Iran's pre-eminent involvement in arming, training and supplying various terrorist groups in the Middle East region, and suicide bombers. A nation that looks favorably on suicide bombing is not one we can ever permit to acquire nuclear bombs. And a nation whose leadership has made clear rhetoric of needing nuclear weapons to advance the cause of fundamentalist Islam. And in particular Ahmadinijad's vow to "wipe Israel off the map".
These are people fanatical enough to not hesitate to use nuclear weapons.

But Iran's nuclear program is not an imminent threat at this point. Even in the worst case scenario, U.S. intelligence estimates Iran to acquire nukes by 2009, and not have missiles to carry them until 2013.
So I don't see this as something Bush has to deal with, and would prefer to see the next president handle military action against Iraq, if it comes to that. Although it could be like South Africa, where the WMD-eager apartheid government wanted nukes, but the new Mandela government handed the whole program over to weapons inspectors to dismantle.

North Korea is likewise moving toward negotiating its nukes away in exchange for security assurances, although that deal isn't done yet.

I know Bush would like to invade Iran, but I don't think he can rally the support to do it, and I don't want him to anyway. That's a decision best left to the next administration, which is only a year away.

Posted By: Chris Oakley Re: Iran Nukes - 2007-12-05 6:42 AM
I say the sooner we go to war with Iran, the better. Force is the only thing those bastards understand anyway.
 Originally Posted By: Chris Oakley
I say the sooner we go to war with Iran, the better. Force is the only thing those bastards understand anyway.


Well, I'm all for fighting Iran, if it comes to that.
But at this stage, I think there are other ways we can still prevent their acquiring nukes, short of war.

But if they're about to go nuclear, then I wouldn't object to air strikes to prevent that, short of all-out war.


From what I heard last night, sanctions are having their effect, making the Ahmadinijad regime increasingly isolated economically, and thus unpopular with the Iranian people, who are actually very pro-western, despite their fundamentalist leadership. It's possible a more pro-western government could replace Ahmadinijad in the next election, and opt to give up their weapons program to U.N. inspectors.

Here's a nice balanced discussion I saw on the News Hour last night



Posted By: rex Re: Iran Volunteers to test Israeli nukes... - 2007-12-05 7:48 AM
Wondy and oakley agreeing.


The KKK must be proud.
They took my baby away, you know.
They took her away.
Away from me.
you were an aweful father, mxy. i see the way your "son" prances around these boards like a little whore trying to get daddy to notice him.
why is it that people assume that just because a country has nuclear weapons they'll use them?
many countries have the technology. the blueprints are on the internet. but so far the only country ever to use one on an enemy is us in WWII. I don't really believe any country would use them again. The devestation and loss of life aside, it would turn every other country in the world against them out of fear. The real threat is all those leftover nukes in Russia after our little cold war caused so many to be built.Those get onto the black market where they could be attained by people who have no power or country to lose.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Iran Volunteers to test Israeli nukes... - 2007-12-06 10:04 AM
 Originally Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man
why is it that people assume that just because a country has nuclear weapons they'll use them?
many countries have the technology. the blueprints are on the internet. but so far the only country ever to use one on an enemy is us in WWII. I don't really believe any country would use them again. The devestation and loss of life aside, it would turn every other country in the world against them out of fear. The real threat is all those leftover nukes in Russia after our little cold war caused so many to be built.Those get onto the black market where they could be attained by people who have no power or country to lose.



Because Iran is the world's largest exporter of Islamic terror, funding, arming and training terror organizations and suicide bombers throughout the muslim world. A nation that embraces suicide bombing is not one that I want to have access to nuclear weapons.

North Korea has nukes, but mutually assured destruction still keeps them in check.

A nation whose leaders, and a wide body of their indoctrinated followers, who would eagerly die in the cause of Allah to assure their place in heaven, is not one I would trust to hesitate to use nuclear weapons, once they've acquired them.
This is a nation that's vowed to "wipe Israel off the map."
And made "death to America" a staple of their culture.

Posted By: whomod Re: 3 out of 4 Fox primetime shows ignored NIE - 2007-12-06 12:01 PM
Early Monday afternoon, the Bush administration released a new National Intelligence Estimate revealing that Iran had halted its nuclear weapons program in 2003. Though the blockbuster revelation was featured prominently that night in all three network newscasts, it was all but ignored on Fox News. Steve Benen reports that on Monday night, only one of Fox’s primetime shows — Special Report with Brit Hume — even mentioned the report. On Tuesday, after President Bush held a news conference, the shows did cover it, but with only conservatives and administration supporters discussing it.
I almost felt bad for Bush the other day when he was giving that press release talking about how Iran's not making nukes. He looked like my little cousin (Five years old) when she gets yelled at.
Posted By: whomod Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-12-06 11:34 PM
To think, if we'd listened to all the FOX pundits and the likes of Joe Leiberman for the better part of the year demanding war ASAP and trying to scare up images of WWIII, we'd be at war right now over bad intel once again.

It was a year ago this month that Seymour Hersh wrote in the New Yorker that the White House (ie: Cheney) was pushing back against the release of a National Intelligence Estimate on Iran that had failed to find any evidence of an ongoing nuclear weapons program. Once again I guess you could say Sy is the polar opposite of ‘the boy who cried wolf’.’

Wolf Blitzer had him on to discuss it and what to make of the new NIE and the recent claims by the President that he was just informed about it’s contents a week ago.



 Quote:
Hersh: What’s interesting here is the President’s position. As you know today in his news conference he said he only learned about this the other week.

Blitzer: He said he only got the word from Mike McConnell, the National Intelligence Director, last week that there was in fact now a new the National Intelligence Estimate, although last Aug he was told there is some new information - we haven’t vetted it - it’s not yet confirmed - there may be some new information. He only says that he learned about the new NIE last week.

Hersh: Look, it’s a lose-lose for them. Either he did know what was going on at the highest levels - the fight I’m talking about began last year. I was writing about something in November and also you mentioned earlier. They were aware of a big dispute inside the community that is between the White House and the community about this. Now, maybe he didn’t know what was going on at the Vice Presidential level about something that serious. If so, I mean, we pay him to know these things and not to make statements based on information that turns out not to be accurate, or else he is misrepresenting what he knows. I don’t think there is any question this is going to pose a serious credibility problem. I assume people are going to be asking more and more questions about what did he know, when. …


It’s little wonder why Seymour Hersh is so often the target of fierce criticism from The Administration as he’s been a thorn in their side just as he has many an administration before them. Sy has earned his place as one of the US’s greatest investigative reporters/muckrakers ever after his exposing many of the greatest scandals of our time. He broke the My Lai massacre, the torture at Abu Ghraib, and the CIA’s “Family Jewels” which was Nixon wiretapping journalists, dissidents and antiwar protesters, that led to the Church hearings which in turn led to th FISA law, and even Clinton’s bombing of a pharmaceutical factory in Sudan, just to name a few of his more well known exposes.

In the wake of a National Intelligence Estimate that concluded Iran stopped its nuclear-weapons program in 2003, the White House story on what Bush knew when has been burdened by contradictions and apparent falsehoods.

Yesterday, the White House’s story changed.

 Quote:
President Bush was told in August that Iran’s nuclear weapons program “may be suspended,” the White House said Wednesday, which seemingly contradicts the account of the meeting given by Bush Tuesday.

Adm. Mike McConnell, the director of national intelligence, told Bush the new information might cause intelligence officials to change their assessment of the Iranian program, but said analysts needed to review the new data before making a final judgment, White House press secretary Dana Perino said late Wednesday.

“Director McConnell said that the new information might cause the intelligence community to change its assessment of Iran’s covert nuclear program, but the intelligence community was not prepared to draw any conclusions at that point in time, and it wouldn’t be right to speculate until they had time to examine and analyze the new data,” Perino said in a statement issued by the White House.

The new account from Perino seems to contradict the president’s version of his August conversation with McConnell and raised new questions about why Bush continued to warn the American public about a threat from Iran two months after being told a new assessment was in the works.


Of course it contradicts Bush’s version. On Tuesday, the White House line was that Bush wasn’t given any sense of what the latest Iranian intelligence said. On Wednesday, the White House line was that Bush was told the latest Iranian intelligence suggested Iran’s nuclear program might not exist.

The president is stuck in a lie he can’t get out of.
 Originally Posted By: whomod
The president is stuck in a lie he can't get out of.


Another one?
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-12-07 8:35 AM
 Originally Posted By: whomod
To think, if we'd listened to all the FOX pundits and the likes of Joe Leiberman for the better part of the year demanding war ASAP and trying to scare up images of WWIII, we'd be at war right now over bad intel once again.

It was a year ago this month that Seymour Hersh wrote in the New Yorker that the White House (ie: Cheney) was pushing back against the release of a National Intelligence Estimate on Iran that had failed to find any evidence of an ongoing nuclear weapons program. Once again I guess you could say Sy is the polar opposite of ‘the boy who cried wolf’.’

Wolf Blitzer had him on to discuss it and what to make of the new NIE and the recent claims by the President that he was just informed about it’s contents a week ago.



 Quote:
Hersh: What’s interesting here is the President’s position. As you know today in his news conference he said he only learned about this the other week.

Blitzer: He said he only got the word from Mike McConnell, the National Intelligence Director, last week that there was in fact now a new the National Intelligence Estimate, although last Aug he was told there is some new information - we haven’t vetted it - it’s not yet confirmed - there may be some new information. He only says that he learned about the new NIE last week.

Hersh: Look, it’s a lose-lose for them. Either he did know what was going on at the highest levels - the fight I’m talking about began last year. I was writing about something in November and also you mentioned earlier. They were aware of a big dispute inside the community that is between the White House and the community about this. Now, maybe he didn’t know what was going on at the Vice Presidential level about something that serious. If so, I mean, we pay him to know these things and not to make statements based on information that turns out not to be accurate, or else he is misrepresenting what he knows. I don’t think there is any question this is going to pose a serious credibility problem. I assume people are going to be asking more and more questions about what did he know, when. …


It’s little wonder why Seymour Hersh is so often the target of fierce criticism from The Administration as he’s been a thorn in their side just as he has many an administration before them. Sy has earned his place as one of the US’s greatest investigative reporters/muckrakers ever after his exposing many of the greatest scandals of our time. He broke the My Lai massacre, the torture at Abu Ghraib, and the CIA’s “Family Jewels” which was Nixon wiretapping journalists, dissidents and antiwar protesters, that led to the Church hearings which in turn led to th FISA law, and even Clinton’s bombing of a pharmaceutical factory in Sudan, just to name a few of his more well known exposes.

In the wake of a National Intelligence Estimate that concluded Iran stopped its nuclear-weapons program in 2003, the White House story on what Bush knew when has been burdened by contradictions and apparent falsehoods.

Yesterday, the White House’s story changed.

 Quote:
President Bush was told in August that Iran’s nuclear weapons program “may be suspended,” the White House said Wednesday, which seemingly contradicts the account of the meeting given by Bush Tuesday.

Adm. Mike McConnell, the director of national intelligence, told Bush the new information might cause intelligence officials to change their assessment of the Iranian program, but said analysts needed to review the new data before making a final judgment, White House press secretary Dana Perino said late Wednesday.

“Director McConnell said that the new information might cause the intelligence community to change its assessment of Iran’s covert nuclear program, but the intelligence community was not prepared to draw any conclusions at that point in time, and it wouldn’t be right to speculate until they had time to examine and analyze the new data,” Perino said in a statement issued by the White House.

The new account from Perino seems to contradict the president’s version of his August conversation with McConnell and raised new questions about why Bush continued to warn the American public about a threat from Iran two months after being told a new assessment was in the works.


Of course it contradicts Bush’s version. On Tuesday, the White House line was that Bush wasn’t given any sense of what the latest Iranian intelligence said. On Wednesday, the White House line was that Bush was told the latest Iranian intelligence suggested Iran’s nuclear program might not exist.

The president is stuck in a lie he can’t get out of.


"We'd be at war with Iran", Whomod?

I guess the same way we're at war with North Korea over nukes?

Try to be a little less hyperbolic.

I'd agree with you that Bush and Cheney favor invasion of Iran. But there are a lot of other difficult hurdles at this point before we'd get to war, and in addition to a backlash such a war would cause by Senate Democrats and many of their fellow Senate Republicans, probably half the Pentagon leadership would resign in protest if Iraq invasion were to happen in the current situation.

I think the neo-cons are a near-dead movement at this point, who are trying to finish with some diplomatic accomplishments, and to not destroy the chances of a Republican getting elected in Nov 2008.


And as I said, regardless of the desire for war in Iran, the intelligence projecting the likelihood that Iranian nukes have been on hold since 2003 are not absolute, just the best current projection. Similar projections completely missed the fall of the Berlin Wall, the fall of Poland and other Soviet governments in eastern Europe, and even the collapse of the Soviet Union itself in 1991.
So I wouldn't put absolute stock in our safety from Iranian nukes. That doesn't mean I think we should immediately go to war with them, but I do think we should continue to ratchet up the pressure to abandon their nuclear ambitions altogether, and open their facilities up to U.N. weapons inspectors.


Regarding Wolf Blitzer and the whole thing about what Bush knew and when he knew it, Bush said he got earlier overview of the intelligence that the Iranian nuclear program was taken off the fast track, but that intelligence has to be verified before it can be considered reliable.
Would that the facts were more verified regarding Chalabi prior to the Iraq war. I don't think Bush, Cheney, or the Democrats and the Republicans in the Senate are likely to repeat that embarrassment.

Bush's and others' remarks were hypothetical (i.e., "if there's a threat, we want to avoid W W III..."), and not an immediate call to war. But as I said before, Iran is the last country we want to have nuclear weapons, given their fanaticism, and stated eagerness to use nukes, if acquired.

Stating the threat is not the same as rushing to war.
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
 Originally Posted By: whomod
To think, if we'd listened to all the FOX pundits and the likes of Joe Leiberman for the better part of the year demanding war ASAP and trying to scare up images of WWIII, we'd be at war right now over bad intel once again.

It was a year ago this month that Seymour Hersh wrote in the New Yorker that the White House (ie: Cheney) was pushing back against the release of a National Intelligence Estimate on Iran that had failed to find any evidence of an ongoing nuclear weapons program. Once again I guess you could say Sy is the polar opposite of ‘the boy who cried wolf’.’

Wolf Blitzer had him on to discuss it and what to make of the new NIE and the recent claims by the President that he was just informed about it’s contents a week ago.



 Quote:
Hersh: What’s interesting here is the President’s position. As you know today in his news conference he said he only learned about this the other week.

Blitzer: He said he only got the word from Mike McConnell, the National Intelligence Director, last week that there was in fact now a new the National Intelligence Estimate, although last Aug he was told there is some new information - we haven’t vetted it - it’s not yet confirmed - there may be some new information. He only says that he learned about the new NIE last week.

Hersh: Look, it’s a lose-lose for them. Either he did know what was going on at the highest levels - the fight I’m talking about began last year. I was writing about something in November and also you mentioned earlier. They were aware of a big dispute inside the community that is between the White House and the community about this. Now, maybe he didn’t know what was going on at the Vice Presidential level about something that serious. If so, I mean, we pay him to know these things and not to make statements based on information that turns out not to be accurate, or else he is misrepresenting what he knows. I don’t think there is any question this is going to pose a serious credibility problem. I assume people are going to be asking more and more questions about what did he know, when. …


It’s little wonder why Seymour Hersh is so often the target of fierce criticism from The Administration as he’s been a thorn in their side just as he has many an administration before them. Sy has earned his place as one of the US’s greatest investigative reporters/muckrakers ever after his exposing many of the greatest scandals of our time. He broke the My Lai massacre, the torture at Abu Ghraib, and the CIA’s “Family Jewels” which was Nixon wiretapping journalists, dissidents and antiwar protesters, that led to the Church hearings which in turn led to th FISA law, and even Clinton’s bombing of a pharmaceutical factory in Sudan, just to name a few of his more well known exposes.

In the wake of a National Intelligence Estimate that concluded Iran stopped its nuclear-weapons program in 2003, the White House story on what Bush knew when has been burdened by contradictions and apparent falsehoods.

Yesterday, the White House’s story changed.

 Quote:
President Bush was told in August that Iran’s nuclear weapons program “may be suspended,” the White House said Wednesday, which seemingly contradicts the account of the meeting given by Bush Tuesday.

Adm. Mike McConnell, the director of national intelligence, told Bush the new information might cause intelligence officials to change their assessment of the Iranian program, but said analysts needed to review the new data before making a final judgment, White House press secretary Dana Perino said late Wednesday.

“Director McConnell said that the new information might cause the intelligence community to change its assessment of Iran’s covert nuclear program, but the intelligence community was not prepared to draw any conclusions at that point in time, and it wouldn’t be right to speculate until they had time to examine and analyze the new data,” Perino said in a statement issued by the White House.

The new account from Perino seems to contradict the president’s version of his August conversation with McConnell and raised new questions about why Bush continued to warn the American public about a threat from Iran two months after being told a new assessment was in the works.


Of course it contradicts Bush’s version. On Tuesday, the White House line was that Bush wasn’t given any sense of what the latest Iranian intelligence said. On Wednesday, the White House line was that Bush was told the latest Iranian intelligence suggested Iran’s nuclear program might not exist.

The president is stuck in a lie he can’t get out of.


"We'd be at war with Iran", Whomod?

I guess the same way we're at war with North Korea over nukes?

Try to be a little less hyperbolic.

I'd agree with you that Bush and Cheney favor invasion of Iran. But there are a lot of other difficult hurdles at this point before we'd get to war, and in addition to a backlash such a war would cause by Senate Democrats and many of their fellow Senate Republicans, probably half the Pentagon leadership would resign in protest if Iraq invasion were to happen in the current situation.

I think the neo-cons are a near-dead movement at this point, who are trying to finish with some diplomatic accomplishments, and to not destroy the chances of a Republican getting elected in Nov 2008.


And as I said, regardless of the desire for war in Iran, the intelligence projecting the likelihood that Iranian nukes have been on hold since 2003 are not absolute, just the best current projection. Similar projections completely missed the fall of the Berlin Wall, the fall of Poland and other Soviet governments in eastern Europe, and even the collapse of the Soviet Union itself in 1991.
So I wouldn't put absolute stock in our safety from Iranian nukes. That doesn't mean I think we should immediately go to war with them, but I do think we should continue to ratchet up the pressure to abandon their nuclear ambitions altogether, and open their facilities up to U.N. weapons inspectors.


Regarding Wolf Blitzer and the whole thing about what Bush knew and when he knew it, Bush said he got earlier overview of the intelligence that the Iranian nuclear program was taken off the fast track, but that intelligence has to be verified before it can be considered reliable.
Would that the facts were more verified regarding Chalabi prior to the Iraq war. I don't think Bush, Cheney, or the Democrats and the Republicans in the Senate are likely to repeat that embarrassment.

Bush's and others' remarks were hypothetical (i.e., "if there's a threat, we want to avoid W W III..."), and not an immediate call to war. But as I said before, Iran is the last country we want to have nuclear weapons, given their fanaticism, and stated eagerness to use nukes, if acquired.

Stating the threat is not the same as rushing to war.


Try to be less narrow minded WB

The situation with Iran was completely diffrent with N.Korea. Your side of the fence pushed much harder for a conflict with them. From day one it was nothing but diplomatic actions with N.Korea. With Iran the right tried to use diplomacy but was constantly pointing out that war may be necessary.

The rationalization being we should let China deal with N.Korea.
Posted By: whomod Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-12-08 12:38 AM


Olbermann is the fucking man. He's almost as cool as Optimus Prime.
Olbermann is great. A modern Edward R. Murrow.
Posted By: whomod Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-12-10 9:58 PM
Rudy Giuliani will probably regret going on Meet The Press yesterday. Tim Russert asks Rudy if he still agrees with the statements made by his unhinged, campaign foreign policy adviser, Norman Podhoretz, who thinks the latest NIE report on Iran was a hit job on President Bush, and recently wrote that he “hopes and prays” that President Bush bombs Iran soon — and that Rudy agrees with him completely.

Giuliani tries and succeeds in completely scrubbing Podhoretz from the conversation, (without actually answering the question, of course) saying that while he believes the military option must be left on the table, he thinks invading Iran should only be done as a last resort. This shows a big disconnect in the Giuliani campaign, but when it comes right down to it, does anybody believe him?



It's funny when people have to publicly disavow their own hired nutjobs on TV.

Speaking of nutjobs.....



Can’t have Sunday without a little William “the Bloody” Kristol bloviation. Poor little Bloody Bill didn’t like that NIE report, which directly contradicted all of his assertions and cheerleading for war with Iran. Watch him spin the fact that once again he was wrong–not a little wrong, but wrong on a potentially catastrophic level–and try lamely to turn it into a positive:

 Quote:
I believe we invaded a neighboring country in 2003 and removed their dictator and that sent shock waves through the region and at the time people were quite worried. Qaddafi gave up his program, he dismantled his. We took it out. Iran didn’t dismantle anything. That’s why they remain a threat. They halted it, maybe they’ve restarted it, maybe not. This is yet another feather in the cap for the invasion of Iraq.


Oh, poor misguided, completely clueless Kristol. Once again, you pull facts out of your posterior that probably sound correct to the average Fox viewer, but here in the reality-based community, we know you’re just as wrong here as you’ve been about basically every single thing that’s come out of your mouth. Qaddafi didn’t give up his program because we invaded Iraq. Qaddafi signaled years ago that he was willing to negotiate and his eventual concessions came from years and years of concerted diplomatic effort. You know, the kind your buddy Bush refused to do with Iran, leaving it to six other nations? And the unmitigated arrogance to assume that the every nation’s actions revolve around the U.S. approval shows how little you understand about anything outside your little bubble. The nuclear program in Iran was shut down because the Iranian Supreme Leader felt that a nuclear program was not consistent with Islam.

That’s no feather in the cap, Billy Boy. This is proof that once again, listening to anything you say just leaves you even less informed than before. And yet, sadly, you’ll be back next Sunday being wrong again.

Plus I always find that weaselly closet gayish man-boy difficult to swallow as he always sits there and grins about matters of life and death and deploying troops as if he's playing a video game.
Posted By: whomod Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-12-10 10:00 PM
 Originally Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man
Olbermann is great. A modern Edward R. Murrow.


But Ann Coulter says Joe McCarthy was a hero.
i wonder why she hates America so much.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-12-11 9:07 AM
 Originally Posted By: whomod
 Originally Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man
Olbermann is great. A modern Edward R. Murrow.


But Ann Coulter says Joe McCarthy was a hero.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McCarthy

  • ONGOING DEBATE

    In the view of some modern conservative authors, McCarthy's place in history should be re-evaluated. Ann Coulter's book Treason: Liberal Treachery from the Cold War to the War on Terrorism is a notable example of this. Coulter, a controversial right-wing author, devotes a chapter to her defense of McCarthy, and much of the book to a defense of McCarthyism.

    She states, for example, "Everything you think you know about McCarthy is a hegemonic lie. Liberals denounced McCarthy because they were afraid of getting caught, so they fought back like animals to hide their own collaboration with a regime as evil as the Nazis."[77] Other authors who have voiced similar opinions include William Norman Grigg of the John Birch Society,[78] and M. Stanton Evans.[79] Another recent defense of McCarthy is William F. Buckley, Jr.'s sympathetic fictionalized biography, The Redhunter: a Novel Based on the Life of Senator Joe McCarthy.[80]

    These authors frequently cite new evidence, in the form of Venona decrypted Soviet messages, Soviet espionage data now opened to the West, and newly released transcripts of closed hearings before McCarthy's subcommittee, asserting that these have vindicated McCarthy, showing that many of his identifications of Communists were correct. It has also been said that Venona and the Soviet archives have revealed that the scale of Soviet espionage activity in the United States during the 1940s and 1950s was larger than many scholars suspected,[81][82] and that this too stands as a vindication of McCarthy.

    Some responses to these viewpoints have been written by Kevin Drum[83] and Johann Hari.[84] Historian John Earl Haynes has also argued against this 'rehabilitation' of McCarthy, saying that McCarthy's attempts to "make anticommunism a partisan weapon" actually "threatened [the post-War] anti-Communist consensus", thereby ultimately harming anti-Communist efforts more than helping.[85]


well, gee. if Anne Coulter thinks Mccarthy was a hero I guess that settles the matter.

forget the fact that many people had their lives ruined for refusing to "name names." forget that it was a witch hunt motivated by blind ambition and over the top jingoistic fear. forget that history has shown that he was a nutjob who violated people's rights.
paranoid delusional fear, violation of people's rights, and a secretly gay man leading the charge. he was a republican pioneer.
Ann Coulter-



The most pathetically pathological bitch of them all.

But be careful about mentioning Mccarthy. You'll have the resident trolls saying you're comparing him to African dictators if you're not careful.

Posted By: thedoctor Iran Resumed Weapons Development in '04? - 2007-12-11 8:13 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071211/ap_on_re_eu/iran_nuclear_opposition
 Quote:
An exiled Iranian opposition group on Tuesday contested a U.S. intelligence report that said Tehran halted a nuclear weapons development program in 2003, insisting the bomb-making program resumed the following year.

"We announce vehemently that the clerical regime is currently continuing its drive to obtain nuclear weapons," said Mohammad Mohaddessin, a spokesman for the Paris-based National Council of Resistance of Iran, or NCRI.

In Tehran, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad rejected the group's assertions.

"Wrong information from non-credible sources has led them (the Americans) astray (in the past)," he told a news conference in the Iranian capital. "You should not bank on information from non-credible sources."

The International Atomic Energy Agency declined to comment on the NCRI's allegation.

The U.S. National Intelligence Estimate released last week said that Iran halted a nuclear weapons development program in 2003 because of international pressure. Mohaddessin told a news conference that Iran appeared to have duped U.S. intelligence into that conclusion.

"The clerical regime leaks false information and intelligence to Western intelligence services, through double agents," Mohaddessin said.

He said Iran did shut down a Tehran weapons program center known as Lavizan-Shian in 2003 under international pressure and demolished the site. However, Mohaddessin said the Iranian authorities shifted their weapons program to other sites, which resumed the work in 2004.

The NCRI is the political wing of the People's Mujahedeen of Iran, an opposition group that advocates the overthrow of the government in Tehran. The NCRI has been designated a terrorist group by Iran and by both the United States and the European Union.

"This group can't be the source of correct information," Ahmadinejad said, pointing to past attacks by the group that killed Iranian civilians.

It was not possible to independently verify the NCRI claims, which Mohaddessin said came from sources within Iran, including some among staff at covert nuclear plants.

Four years ago, the group disclosed information about two hidden nuclear sites that helped uncover nearly two decades of covert Iranian atomic activity. But much of the information it has presented since then to back up claims that Iran has a secret weapons program has not been publicly verified.

Mohaddessin said Iran was developing nuclear weapons technology at a site near the original plant in the Tehran neighborhood of Lavizan and other units around the country. He said the group had checked with its sources in the past week and discovered that the centers were still working.

"These centers are working just now for producing nuclear bombs. This is contrary to the United States' National Intelligence Estimate," he said.

Iran claims its nuclear development is peaceful and aimed at producing energy.
Fuckin hell. Making nukes, not making nukes, making nukes, not making nukes. It's kinda like Iraq. Things are improving, getting worse, things are improving, getting worse.

No matter what this govt. is incompetent. Democrat or Republican. We'd be better of with complete fucking anarchy at this point.*

*I'm exaggerating for effect.
Posted By: Chant Re: Iran Wants to Nuke Your Puppies - 2007-12-11 8:48 PM
 Originally Posted By: Chant
Actually, why don't we just let them test the nukes? we can place them right in the smack dang middle of Teheran...


I'm gonna roll with Chant here...
Posted By: Wank and Cry Re: Iran Wants to Nuke Your Puppies - 2007-12-11 8:57 PM
 Originally Posted By: Chant
 Originally Posted By: Chant
Actually, why don't we just let them test the nukes? we can place them right in the smack dang middle of Teheran...


I'm gonna roll with Chant here...


For the sake of ending this flapdoodle I'm inclined to agree except (and this is crazy, I know) but all Muslims aren't evil and therefore not everybody in Iran deserves to die. So then I think to myself...maybe, just maybe, we should avoid nuking them or helping them nuke themselves.

It is tempting though.
Posted By: whomod Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-12-12 12:04 AM
 Originally Posted By: whomod


Plus I always find that weaselly closet gayish man-boy difficult to swallow as he always sits there and grins about matters of life and death and deploying troops as if he's playing a video game.



The Associated Press is reporting this morning that the International Atomic Energy Agency has commenced a new round of talks with Iran over traces of weapons-grade uranium that have been found at a university in Tehran.

So, just to recap, eight days after the U.S. intelligence community certifies “with high confidence” that Iran halted its nuclear weapons work no less than four years ago, the UN is in talks with the Iranian regime about why it, in fact, hasn’t halted anything of the sort.


Ohhhh....kay....
Can we agree something is royally fucked up with the govt. here?
Which government?
Our govt.

We all know Iran, whether makes nukes or not, is fucked up.
Posted By: whomod Re: Iran Resumed Weapons Development in '04? - 2007-12-13 12:00 AM
 Originally Posted By: the G-man
The Associated Press is reporting this morning that the International Atomic Energy Agency has commenced a new round of talks with Iran over traces of weapons-grade uranium that have been found at a university in Tehran.

So, just to recap, eight days after the U.S. intelligence community certifies “with high confidence” that Iran halted its nuclear weapons work no less than four years ago, the UN is in talks with the Iranian regime about why it, in fact, hasn’t halted anything of the sort.


Ohhhh....kay....


*sigh*

This is the reason that I try to import the ENTIRE article, not just the parts that bolster my argument. Yeah, I may be accused of "cutting and pasting" but at least it spares everyone blatantly misleading (by omission) posts like yours.

Let me fill in a gap:

 Quote:
In 2003, the IAEA revealed other incidents where traces of weapons-grade uranium were found elsewhere in the country, but Iran said those traces came from imported equipment that had been contaminated before it was purchased.

IAEA findings in 2005 vindicated Iran, saying the traces of highly enriched uranium were found on centrifuge parts that had entered the country already contaminated and were not a result of Iranian nuclear activities. The centrifuge parts were bought from Pakistan.

The IAEA delegation in Monday talks was headed by Herman Nackartes, head of the watchdog's Safeguard Operations department.

In its November report, the IAEA also said it requested access to documents, individuals and relevant equipment and locations for sample-taking to determine the source of the contamination.

Iran officials taking part in the talks must answer all IAEA questions about how the uranium particles got to the university.

While Iran has responded to many IAEA questions about past nuclear activities such as P-1 and P-2 centrifuges, a technology used to enrich uranium, some issues still remain unresolved, such as the university contamination.


Which is all good and fine. They need to answer for that particular contamination. Based on your posting however, you act as if it's some smoking gun that vindicates all the Iran hysteria. The article clearly shows that this has been an issue before and it's been shown to have been due to prior contamination before Iran purchased the parts.

So it'd be prudent to still hold back on the fighter jets, Tex.
Posted By: whomod Re: Iran Resumed Weapons Development in '04? - 2007-12-13 12:02 AM
 Originally Posted By: thedoctor
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071211/ap_on_re_eu/iran_nuclear_opposition
 Quote:
An exiled Iranian opposition group on Tuesday contested a U.S. intelligence report that said Tehran halted a nuclear weapons development program in 2003, insisting the bomb-making program resumed the following year.

"We announce vehemently that the clerical regime is currently continuing its drive to obtain nuclear weapons," said Mohammad Mohaddessin, a spokesman for the Paris-based National Council of Resistance of Iran, or NCRI.

In Tehran, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad rejected the group's assertions.

"Wrong information from non-credible sources has led them (the Americans) astray (in the past)," he told a news conference in the Iranian capital. "You should not bank on information from non-credible sources."

The International Atomic Energy Agency declined to comment on the NCRI's allegation.

The U.S. National Intelligence Estimate released last week said that Iran halted a nuclear weapons development program in 2003 because of international pressure. Mohaddessin told a news conference that Iran appeared to have duped U.S. intelligence into that conclusion.

"The clerical regime leaks false information and intelligence to Western intelligence services, through double agents," Mohaddessin said.

He said Iran did shut down a Tehran weapons program center known as Lavizan-Shian in 2003 under international pressure and demolished the site. However, Mohaddessin said the Iranian authorities shifted their weapons program to other sites, which resumed the work in 2004.

The NCRI is the political wing of the People's Mujahedeen of Iran, an opposition group that advocates the overthrow of the government in Tehran. The NCRI has been designated a terrorist group by Iran and by both the United States and the European Union.

"This group can't be the source of correct information," Ahmadinejad said, pointing to past attacks by the group that killed Iranian civilians.

It was not possible to independently verify the NCRI claims, which Mohaddessin said came from sources within Iran, including some among staff at covert nuclear plants.

Four years ago, the group disclosed information about two hidden nuclear sites that helped uncover nearly two decades of covert Iranian atomic activity. But much of the information it has presented since then to back up claims that Iran has a secret weapons program has not been publicly verified.

Mohaddessin said Iran was developing nuclear weapons technology at a site near the original plant in the Tehran neighborhood of Lavizan and other units around the country. He said the group had checked with its sources in the past week and discovered that the centers were still working.

"These centers are working just now for producing nuclear bombs. This is contrary to the United States' National Intelligence Estimate," he said.

Iran claims its nuclear development is peaceful and aimed at producing energy.


Oh brother...

haven't we danced this dance twice already?

The first time before the Kuwait/Iraq war with the Kuwaiti ambassadors daughter lying to Congress about babies and incubators and the next time with Ahmed Chalabi and "Curveball"?
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2007-12-24 8:45 PM
Iran a Nuke-War Loser
  • Report estimates Tehran would suffer 16-20 million casualties if it launched a nuclear attack on Israel
Posted By: the Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2008-01-11 9:57 AM
whomod User apoplectic with liberal rage
3000+ posts Fri Jan 11 2008 01:47 AM Reading a post
Forum: Politics and Current Events
Thread: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes
Posted By: whomod Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2008-01-11 9:58 AM


 Quote:
POLITICS-US: Official Version of Naval Incident Starts to Unravel
Analysis by Gareth Porter*

Credit:Press-TV

Image from Iranian video depicting the Jan. 7 encounter with U.S. warships in the Strait of Hormuz.

WASHINGTON, Jan 10 (IPS) - Despite the official and media portrayal of the incident in the Strait of Hormuz early Monday morning as a serious threat to U.S. ships from Iranian speedboats that nearly resulted in a "battle at sea", new information over the past three days suggests that the incident did not involve such a threat and that no U.S. commander was on the verge of firing at the Iranian boats.

The new information that appears to contradict the original version of the incident includes the revelation that U.S. officials spliced the audio recording of an alleged Iranian threat onto to a videotape of the incident. That suggests that the threatening message may not have come in immediately after the initial warning to Iranian boats from a U.S. warship, as appears to do on the video.

Also unraveling the story is testimony from a former U.S. naval officer that non-official chatter is common on the channel used to communicate with the Iranian boats and testimony from the commander of the U.S. 5th fleet that the commanding officers of the U.S. warships involved in the incident never felt the need to warn the Iranians of a possible use of force against them.

Further undermining the U.S. version of the incident is a video released by Iran Thursday showing an Iranian naval officer on a small boat hailing one of three ships.

The Iranian commander is heard to say, "Coalition warship 73, this is Iranian navy patrol boat." He then requests the "side numbers" of the U.S. warships. A voice with a U.S. accent replies, "This is coalition warship 73. I am operating in international waters."

The dramatic version of the incident reported by U.S. news media throughout Tuesday and Wednesday suggested that Iranian speedboats, apparently belonging to the Iranian Revolutionary Guard navy, had made moves to attack three U.S. warships entering the Strait and that the U.S. commander had been on the verge of firing at them when they broke off.

Typical of the network coverage was a story by ABC's Jonathan Karl quoting a Pentagon official as saying the Iranian boats "were a heartbeat from being blown up".

Bush administration officials seized on the incident to advance the portrayal of Iran as a threat and to strike a more threatening stance toward Iran. National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley declared Wednesday that the incident "almost involved an exchange of fire between our forces and Iranian forces". President George W. Bush declared during his Mideast trip Wednesday that there would be "serious consequences" if Iran attacked U.S. ships and repeated his assertion that Iran is "a threat to world peace".

Central to the depiction of the incident as involving a threat to U.S. warships is a mysterious pair of messages that the sailor who heard them onboard immediately interpreted as saying, "I am coming at you...", and "You will explode after a few minutes." But the voice in the audio clearly said "I am coming to you," and the second message was much less clear.

Furthermore, as the New York Times noted Thursday, the recording carries no ambient noise, such as the sounds of a motor, the sea or wind, which should have been audible if the broadcast had been made from one of the five small Iranian boats.

A veteran U.S. naval officer who had served as a surface warfare officer aboard a U.S. Navy destroyer in the Gulf sent a message to the New York Times on-line column "The Lede" Wednesday pointing out that in the Persian Gulf, the "bridge-to-bridge" radio channel used to communicate between ships "is like a bad CB radio" with many people using it for "hurling racial slurs" and "threats". The former officer wrote that his "first thought" was that the message "might not have even come from one of the Iranian craft".

Pentagon officials admitted to the Times that they could not rule out that the broadcast might have come from another source

The five Iran boats involved were hardly in a position to harm the three U.S. warships. Although Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman described the Iranian boats as "highly maneuverable patrol craft" that were "visibly armed," he failed to note that these are tiny boats carrying only a two- or three-man crew and that they are normally armed only with machine guns that could do only surface damage to a U.S. ship.

The only boat that was close enough to be visible to the U.S. ships was unarmed, as an enlarged photo of the boat from the navy video clearly shows.

The U.S. warships were not concerned about the possibility that the Iranian boats were armed with heavier weapons capable of doing serious damage. Asked by a reporter whether any of the vessels had anti-ship missiles or torpedoes, Vice Adm. Kevin Cosgriff, Commander of the 5th Fleet, answered that none of them had either of those two weapons.

"I didn't get the sense from the reports I was receiving that there was a sense of being afraid of these five boats," said Cosgriff.

The edited Navy video shows a crewman issuing an initial warning to approaching boats, but the footage of the boats maneuvering provides no visual evidence of Iranian boats "making a run on U.S. ships" as claimed by CBS news Wednesday in its report based on the new video.

Vice Adm. Cosgriff also failed to claim any run toward the U.S. ships following the initial warning. Cosgriff suggested that the Iranian boat's manoeuvres were "unduly provocative" only because of the "aggregate of their manoeuvres, the radio call and the dropping of objects in the water".

He described the objects dropped by the Iranian boat as being "white, box-like objects that floated". That description indicates that the objects were clearly not mines, which would have been dark and would have sunk immediately. Cosgriff indicated that the ships merely "passed by them safely" without bothering to investigate whether they were explosives of some kind.

The apparent absence of concern on the part of the U.S. ships' commanding officers about the floating objects suggests that they recognised that the Iranians were engaging in a symbolic gesture having to do with laying mines.

Cosgriff's answers to reporters' questions indicated that the story promoted earlier by Pentagon officials that one of the U.S . ships came very close to firing at the Iranian boats seriously distorted what actually happened. When Cosgriff was asked whether the crew ever gave warning to the Iranian boats that they "could come under fire", he said the commanding officers "did not believe they needed to fire warning shots".

As for the report circulated by at least one Pentagon official to the media that one of the commanders was "close to firing", Cosgriff explained that "close to" meant that the commander was "working through a series of procedures". He added, "[I]n his mind, he might have been closing in on that point."

Despite Cosgriff's account, which contradicted earlier Pentagon portrayals of the incident as a confrontation, not a single news outlet modified its earlier characterisation of the incident. After the Cosgriff briefing, Associated Press carried a story that said, " U.S. forces were taking steps toward firing on the Iranians to defend themselves, said the U.S. naval commander in the region. But the boats -- believed to be from the Iranian Revolutionary Guard's navy -- turned and moved away, officials said."

That was quite different from what Cosgriff actually said.

In its story covering the Cosgriff briefing, Reuters cited "other Pentagon officials, speaking on condition of anonymity" as saying that "a U.S. captain was in the process of ordering sailors to open fire when the Iranian boats moved away" -- a story that Cosgriff had specifically denied.

*Gareth Porter is an historian and national security policy analyst. His latest book, "Perils of Dominance: Imbalance of Power and the Road to War in Vietnam", was published in June 2005.


I wonder how many more fake provocations we'll get until these guys realize they aern't going to goad and inflame passions in order to start a war with Iran before Bush's term is up.



Oddly enough....


 Quote:
Report reveals Vietnam War hoaxes, faked attacks

But he said that probably the "most historically significant feature" of the declassified report was the retelling of the 1964 Gulf of Tonkin incident.

That was a reported North Vietnamese attack on American destroyers that helped lead to president Lyndon Johnson's sharp escalation of American forces in Vietnam.

The author of the report "demonstrates that not only is it not true, as (then US) secretary of defense Robert McNamara told Congress, that the evidence of an attack was 'unimpeachable,' but that to the contrary, a review of the classified signals intelligence proves that 'no attack happened that night,'" FAS said in a statement.

"What this study demonstrated is that the available intelligence shows that there was no attack. It's a dramatic reversal of the historical record," Aftergood said.

"There were previous indications of this but this is the first time we have seen the complete study," he said.


Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2008-01-11 1:28 PM
The only thing that's clear regarding that Iranian/U.S. potential clash in the Straight of Hormuz, Whomod, is that there was confusion about who exactly said what over the radio (whether or not the Iranian message to the U.S. boats came from one of the five Iranian boats, or another source).
What's known for certain is they were speeding toward a U.S. ship, but veered away before they were fired upon.

This is typical between two hostile nations, for enemies to test reaction time of the U.S. response times, and vice versa (of the U.S. to test Russian, Chinese, or others' response time).

You --of course!-- immediately jump to the highly speculative conclusion that this was manufactured provocation by the U.S. for an invasion of Iran.
Because Bush and Cheney are eeeeeevilll !!

So, based on nothing specific and a lot of speculation, you again slander your own government and take the side of those who are truly evil, to slander your own country.
There was no exchange of fire, so it doesn't rise to the level of being a provocation for U.S. retaliation or invasion.


 Originally Posted By: from article above
The five Iran boats involved were hardly in a position to harm the three U.S. warships. Although Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman described the Iranian boats as "highly maneuverable patrol craft" that were "visibly armed," he failed to note that these are tiny boats carrying only a two- or three-man crew and that they are normally armed only with machine guns that could do only surface damage to a U.S. ship.


The ship that bombed the U.S.S. Cole, off the coast of Yemen, similarly appeared to not pose a threat to a U.S. ship.

You, I guess, would prefer if the U.S. Navy assumed these Iranian boats were not a potential threat, and that our navy didn't take every precaution, and more U.S. soldiers ended up dead as a result?

Like the incident at the beginning of Bush's presidency where a Chinese plane confronted a U.S. plane off China's coast, like with the U.S.S. Cole, these approaches by foreign vessels can be threatening to U.S. planes and ships, and I don't take them so lightly.

Nor do I assume the evil intent of our leaders in knee-jerk fashion, on the flimsiest evidence and speculation.
Posted By: rex Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2008-01-11 1:46 PM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy

Bush and Cheney are eeeeeevilll !!
Posted By: the G-man Iran Speeding Up Nuke Plans? - 2008-02-21 7:03 AM
Group Claims Iran Speeding Up Nuke Plans
  • An exiled Iranian opposition group claimed Wednesday that Tehran was speeding up a program to develop nuclear weapons. "The Iran regime entered a new phase in its nuclear project," said Mohammad Mohaddessin of the Paris-based National Council of Resistance of Iran.

    The NCRI is the political wing of the People's Mujahedeen of Iran, which advocates the overthrow of government in Tehran. The Mujahedeen has been designated a terrorist group by the United States and the European Union as well as Iran.

    Mohaddessin claimed that Tehran has established a command and research center near a Tehran university. And, he said, Iran is developing a nuclear warhead for use on medium-range missiles at a site on the southeast edge of Tehran. Mohaddessin also claimed that the regime obtained aid from North Korea.

    It was not possible to independently verify the NCRI claims. Mohaddessin said his group got the information from "hundreds" of reports and sources from within the Iranian regime, whom he did not name. He said some of the sources are within the nuclear project itself.

    An official of the International Atomic Energy Agency, who spoke anonymously because he was not authorized to talk to the media, said the agency was aware of the allegations. Mohaddessin said he had provided information to the IAEA on Tuesday.

    Iran has steadfastly denied it is working to obtain a nuclear bomb, arguing that its nuclear program is civilian.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Iran Speeding Up Nuke Plans? - 2008-02-21 7:25 AM


I saw the same thing on yahoo news, G-man.




No doubt the Whomods of the world call this guy a Chalabi, who is trying to whip up U.S. "paranoia" to invade Iran and bring about regime change for them.

Never mind that the Israelis will probably invade Iran long before the U.S. even has the ability to, with current U.S. commitments in Iraq and Afghanistan making U.S. invasion highly unlikely.

It is not the U.S. leading the charge to invade Iran. I think this is a political football that is being punted way back for the next administration to deal with. And if the next administration is Obama, then we might as well get used to Sharia Law, and check our balls at the door.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Speeding Up Nuke Plans? - 2008-07-13 6:11 PM
Report: Ahmadinejad Says U.S. Office in Tehran Welcome

He must be really confident that Obama's going to win in November. That or he figures it might be fun to recreate his halycon college days and seize an embassy again.
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Iran Speeding Up Nuke Plans? - 2008-07-17 2:49 AM
http://digg.funniestclip.com/iran_photoshop/
Posted By: King Snarf Re: Iran Speeding Up Nuke Plans? - 2008-07-17 3:58 AM
 Originally Posted By: the G-man
Group Claims Iran Speeding Up Nuke Plans
  • An exiled Iranian opposition group claimed Wednesday that Tehran was speeding up a program to develop nuclear weapons. "The Iran regime entered a new phase in its nuclear project," said Mohammad Mohaddessin of the Paris-based National Council of Resistance of Iran.

    The NCRI is the political wing of the People's Mujahedeen of Iran, which advocates the overthrow of government in Tehran. The Mujahedeen has been designated a terrorist group by the United States and the European Union as well as Iran.

    Mohaddessin claimed that Tehran has established a command and research center near a Tehran university. And, he said, Iran is developing a nuclear warhead for use on medium-range missiles at a site on the southeast edge of Tehran. Mohaddessin also claimed that the regime obtained aid from North Korea.

    It was not possible to independently verify the NCRI claims. Mohaddessin said his group got the information from "hundreds" of reports and sources from within the Iranian regime, whom he did not name. He said some of the sources are within the nuclear project itself.

    An official of the International Atomic Energy Agency, who spoke anonymously because he was not authorized to talk to the media, said the agency was aware of the allegations. Mohaddessin said he had provided information to the IAEA on Tuesday.

    Iran has steadfastly denied it is working to obtain a nuclear bomb, arguing that its nuclear program is civilian.


So, this group, who's been labeled a terrorist group by OUR government as well as the European Union and Iran, is somehow trustworthy?!?
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Speeding Up Nuke Plans? - 2008-07-17 4:16 AM
I wouldn't venture to guess whether these terrorists are any more trustworthy than the terrorist who actually runs Iran.

Where in my post does it indicate that I thought this was some sort of "smoking gun"? All I did was mention that yet-another source was making the allegation that Iran was working on getting nukes.
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Iran Speeding Up Nuke Plans? - 2008-07-17 10:06 PM
Snarf believes Iran when they say they aren't gunna build a nuke. There is no surprise there....
Posted By: the Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2008-07-23 9:18 AM
rex ass-kicky User breaker of the insurgency
15000+ posts Wed Jul 23 2008 02:17 AM Viewing list of forums
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2008-07-23 9:26 PM
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2008-08-03 6:08 PM
Iran: No Deal. Ahmadinejad says Iran will not retreat 'one iota' from its nuclear rights; officials warn of sanctions.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2008-11-05 6:47 PM
So, what's the over/under on the date Israel launches the preemptive strike.

With President Hussein the First having made it clear that he won't life a finger to help Israel and/or stop the Mullahs I figure Israel will do something during the next two months in the hope that Bush will back them up.

Thoughts?
Posted By: thedoctor Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2008-11-13 12:07 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081112/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_missile_test
 Quote:
Iran said it successfully test-fired a new generation of long range surface-to-surface missile on Wednesday — one that could easily strike as far away as southeastern Europe with greater precision than earlier models.

The Sajjil is a solid fuel high-speed missile with a range of about 1,200 miles, Defense Minister Mostafa Mohammed Najjar said on state television. At that range, it could easily strike Iran's arch-foe Israel and go as far as southeastern Europe.

Solid-fuel missiles are more accurate than the liquid fuel missiles of similar range currently possessed by Iran. The country has had a solid-fuel missile with a shorter range — the Fateh, able to fly 120 miles — for several years.

The Islamic Republic News Agency said the test was conducted Wednesday, and television showed the missile being fired from a desert launching pad.

Najjar said the missile was a defensive weapon and not a response to threats against Iran. He didn't name any country, but Israel has recently threatened to take military action against Iran to stop Tehran from developing a nuclear bomb.

Najjar said the missile was part of a "defensive, deterrent strategy ... specifically with defensive objectives."

The defense minister, quoted by Iran state television, said the two-stage missile with two solid-fuel engines has "an extraordinary high capability" but gave no further details. He did not say whether it was capable of carrying a nuclear warhead.

Israel's Foreign Ministry refused comment about the missile test.

In Washington, the State Department said the missile tests were not good for the stability of the region and were another sign that U.S. plans to construct a missile shield in Europe are critical to international security. Department spokesman Robert Wood said Washington hoped Russia, which has criticized the proposed shield, would recognize the threat posed by Iran and realize the system is not aimed at Russia.

"I think it's pretty obvious when Iran launches one of these ballistic missiles, that this is something of concern to the international community, and I'm including Russia in the international community here," he said.

The name "Sajjil" means "baked clay," a reference to a story in the Quran, Islam's holy book, in which birds sent by God drive off an enemy army attacking the holy city of Mecca by pelting them with stones of baked clay.

Iran has intensified its domestic missile development in recent years, raising concerns of the U.S. and its allies at a time when they accuse the country of seeking to build a nuclear weapon. Iran denies it wants to build a bomb, saying its nuclear program is aimed only at generating electricity.

In a speech coinciding with the missile launch, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad warned that his government would act against any threats.

"The Iranian nation defends its dignity. Should any power stand against the Iranian nation, the Iranian people will crush it under its foot and will strike it on the mouth," he said in a speech broadcast live on state television.

Ahmadinejad added that it doesn't matter who comes to power in America because the important question will be how a future U.S. administration will behave.

The Sajjil's range puts it at around the same range as Iran's other farthest-flying missiles — a version of the Shahab-3 unveiled in 2005 and the Ghadr, which was shown off at a September 2007 military parade. The Shahab-3 missile is capable of carrying a nuclear warhead, and its latest versions use a combination of liquid and solid fuel.

Iran launched an arms development program during its 1980-88 war with Iraq to compensate for a U.S. weapons embargo. Since 1992, Iran has produced its own tanks, armored personnel carriers, missiles and a fighter plane. Najjar said the Sajjil was built by the Defense Ministry's aerospace department.
Posted By: PJP Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2008-11-13 12:10 AM
 Originally Posted By: the G-man of Zur-En-Arrh
So, what's the over/under on the date Israel launches the preemptive strike.

With President Hussein the First having made it clear that he won't life a finger to help Israel and/or stop the Mullahs I figure Israel will do something during the next two months in the hope that Bush will back them up.

Thoughts?
I have seen some experts say that now that Obama won Israel will not even consult the USA anymore when it comes to stuff like that so I could see it happening at any moment.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2009-01-05 6:00 AM
Obama Promises Bush III on Iran: The diplomacy he favors is exactly what Condi Rice has been pursuing for years.
  • President-elect Barack Obama has promised major changes in U.S. diplomacy and repeatedly criticized the Bush administration on both substance and style. Mr. Obama has pledged more negotiation and multilateralism -- less saber-rattling and "take it or leave it" unilateralism. While Iraq was Mr. Obama's focal point in the campaign, the biggest problem ahead is countering the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction.

    But on proliferation, what is striking are the similarities between Mr. Obama and President George W. Bush's second term. Given Mr. Bush's recent record, continuity between the two presidencies is hardly reassuring. And where Mr. Obama differs with Mr. Bush, he is only more accommodating to the intractable rogues running Pyongyang and Tehran. This is decidedly bad news.
Posted By: the G-man Iran Slaps Obama Olive Branch - 2009-03-22 6:46 PM
IRAN SLAPS O OLIVE BRANCH
  • Iran's supreme leader yesterday rebuffed President Obama's latest outreach for peace.

    Ayatollah Ali Khamenei was responding to a video message Obama released Friday in which he reached out to Iran on the occasion of Nowruz, the Persian new year, and expressed hopes for improved relations after 30 years of hostility.

    Khamenei holds the last word on major policy decisions, and how Iran ultimately responds to any US effort to engage the mullah-led regime will depend largely on his say.

    Khamenei, whose regime is racing to develop nukes and has threatened to destroy Israel, said there will be no change between the United States and Iran unless Obama puts an end to US hostility toward Iran and brings "real changes" in foreign policy.

    "They chant the slogan of change but no change is seen in practice. We haven't seen any change," Khamenei said in a speech before a crowd of tens of thousands in the northeastern holy city of Mashhad.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2009-05-20 4:44 PM
Iran Test Fires Missile: Ahmadinejad says Iran test-fired new advanced missile capable of striking Israel and U.S. bases in the Mideast
Posted By: thedoctor Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2009-05-20 4:56 PM
Thank Allah that Obama has chosen the path of being nice to the Iranian government. They'd never attack our bases as long as we're being nice.
But we said nice things about them? Wasn't that supposed to stop this?
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2009-05-21 4:22 AM
And...and...the President has a Muslim middle name and isn't Bush. That was supposed to bring peace to the middle East. The New York Times told us so.
also now that we arent harshly interrogating the people that planned 9-11, weren't these guys supposed to send us flowers?
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Obama caves, sticks tail between legs - 2009-06-02 9:17 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/...litical-stakes/

 Quote:
President Obama backed Iran's claim that it has a right to nuclear energy -- but only if the country proves by the end of the year that its aspirations are peaceful.

Obama told the BBC in an interview broadcast Tuesday that he believes "Iran has legitimate energy concerns, legitimate aspirations," adding that the international community also "has a very real interest" in preventing a nuclear arms race.

The interview comes on the heels of Obama's most important trip of his fledgling presidency, a face-to-face encounter with the Muslim world. Obama's five-day pilgrimage to Egypt this week culminates with a long-promised speech on U.S. relations with the Muslim world.

With that, some speculation is swirling that the U.S. effort to reach Muslims is accompanied by its distancing itself from Israel, which is under pressure by the Obama administration to freeze its settlements in the West Bank.

Obama's speech aims to help repair a strained relationship between the United States and the Muslim world that is critical to pressuring Iran to halt its uranium enrichment program, which the international community fears is a cover for building a nuclear bomb.

The Bush administration had insisted that Iran scrap enrichment before diplomatic talks could begin. But Iran repeatedly rejected the demand and expanded its enrichment activities, triggering three sets of U.N. Security Council sanctions.

Obama will deliver the speech at Cairo University, that White House officials call a bastion of secular Muslim thinking that reflects the side of Islam that the U.S. is appealing to in its case for a strategic partnership.

"Egypt is not only a strategic ally of the United States, but it, like the rest of the Muslim world, is a young country which obviously presents the United States with a terrific opportunity to deepen this cooperation that has really developed over the course of the last several decades, but to deepen that and to press it forward here into the future," Denis McDonough, deputy national security advisor said.

"So the message the president wants to send is not different, frankly, than the one he's been sending since he was inaugurated, namely that we believe that this is an opportunity for us in the United States, who frankly, have arrived at a place here based on many of the advances that come out of the Muslim world, be it science out of Baghdad, be it math and technology out of Al-Andalus (University) or otherwise," he continued.

In his efforts to engage the Muslim world, Obama said during his inaugural speech that the United States "will extend a hand if you are willing to unclench your fist. He also declared earlier this spring in Turkey that the United States "is not and never will be at war with Islam."

Obama has granted interviews to Arabic-language networks, telephoned friendly Arab leaders and sent special envoy George J. Mitchell to the Middle East on a "listening tour."

Obama has rejected the notion that efforts to engage the Arab world comes at the sacrifice of Israel, telling National Public Radio that the U.S. must "retain a constant belief in the possibilities of negotiations that will lead to peace."

"And that's going to require, from my view, a two-state solution that is going to require that each side -- the Israelis and Palestinians -- meet their obligations," he said.

Obama explained those obligations include Israelis freezing settlements and Palestinians continuing to make security gains and ending incitement that worries Israel.

"So the key is to just believe that the process can move forward and that all sides are going to have to give," he added. "And it's not going to be an easy path, but one that I think we can achieve."

But foreign policy experts say achieving a successful peace plan faces long odds, particularly considering that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has already rejected Obama's call to freeze settlements, setting up a potential confrontation.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say fuck Africa. All of it.

The whole continent is shit. Egypt fucking hate Americans. Everybody hates Americans.

I'm OK with that.

Fuck the Muslim world too. They are never going to invent anything half as cool as the Japanese.

You can't build a Blue-Ray player or a faster Microprocessor out of sand.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Obama caves, sticks tail between legs - 2009-06-02 9:52 PM
Obama is an African American with Muslim roots. Given where his loyalties lie, the odds of him not kissing Africa's collective ass is low indeed.
 Originally Posted By: Ultimate Jaburg53
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say fuck Africa. All of it.

The whole continent is shit. Egypt fucking hate Americans. Everybody hates Americans.


While I'd agree that Africa is an impoverished AIDS-infested backward excrement-hole, I'd disagree with the part about "everybody hates Americans".

The Muslim world hates us, yes. Although many of them live in the U.S. and enjoy religious freedom and economic opportunity they'd never have in their home countries.

But sub-Saharan Africa loves the U.S., because we provide them with a lot of foreign aid and development, that gives them goodwill toward us.

And Eastern Europe loves us, because they see us as their protection from Russia, since the Iron Curtain disappeared.

I think most actually like Americans and American culture, they just disagree with our foreign policy, often because they are never exposed to a pro-American counter-viewpoint, just a steady diet of anti-American propaganda.
Again: the free-est form of Islam practiced in the world is in the United States. And we fought wars to protect Muslims in Bosnia, Kosovo, Kuwait and Iraq. We've also given humanitarian aid (post-earthquake, post-tsunami) to islamic Iran, Pakistan and Indonesia. In a fair debate, they wouldn't hate us. If they actually do.
Posted By: the G-man Iran Rebukes U.S. Remarks - 2009-06-21 5:23 PM
Iran Rebukes U.S. Remarks: Ahmadinejad says U.S., Britain 'will not be placed in the circle of friendship' with Iran due to stance on election

Oh no, we're out of Iran's "circle of friendship" again. Obama better get over there and apologize.
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Iran Rebukes U.S. Remarks - 2009-06-22 6:10 AM
is it too late to blame Bush for this?
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy

But sub-Saharan Africa loves the U.S., because we provide them with a lot of foreign aid and development, that gives them goodwill toward us.


But, sub-Saharan Africa is the shit hole (save, South Africa). Most of it sucks and despite the aid and such that we give them, the infrastructure built by the colonizing empires are still decaying. I'm with Jaburg. Torch the whole continent.
Posted By: the G-man Still Kissing Iranian Ass - 2009-06-23 3:32 AM
The Iranian dictators are invited to Fourth of July:
  • The United States said Monday its invitations were still standing for Iranian diplomats to attend July 4 celebrations at US embassies despite the crackdown on opposition supporters.

    President Barack Obama's administration said earlier this month it would invite Iran to US embassy barbecues for the national holiday for the first time since the two nations severed relations following the 1979 Islamic revolution.

    "There's no thought to rescinding the invitations to Iranian diplomats," State Department spokesman Ian Kelly told reporters.

    "We have made a strategic decision to engage on a number of fronts with Iran," Kelly said. "We tried many years of isolation, and we're pursuing a different path now."


Way to shit, literally shit, on the meaning of Independence Day. I wonder how many innocent young women must be shot before the invitation is rescinded?
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Still Kissing Iranian Ass - 2009-06-23 4:37 AM
theyre just some guys from the neighborhood......
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Still Kissing Iranian Ass - 2009-06-23 4:59 AM
Obama wants to sit at a table and negotiate with the people who did this:



Do any of his worshippers here feel a little silly for following him?
Posted By: the G-man Re: Still Kissing Iranian Ass - 2009-06-23 5:19 AM
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Still Kissing Iranian Ass - 2009-06-23 5:27 AM
\:damn\:


Posted By: the G-man Re: Still Kissing Iranian Ass - 2009-06-23 6:02 PM
Obama Not Changing Tone on Iran: White House press secretary says U.S. doesn't want to become 'political football' during bloody Iran crackdown.

This shows how little Obama thinks of his own country. He considers an endorsement of freedom by the U.S. as something that hurts, not helps.
Posted By: Chris Oakley Re: Still Kissing Iranian Ass - 2009-06-23 7:55 PM
Ahmadinejad needs to die. Slowly and painfully.
Posted By: PrincessElisa Re: Still Kissing Iranian Ass - 2009-06-23 8:34 PM
Total bullshit that's what I'm saying. We don't have to start a war with Iran just stand up and say we support the people for quietly protesting. The protestors aren't getting violent, it's the government! But NOOOOOO, let's invite them into the White House and reward their bad behavior!

Reminds me of the good ol' days when presidents used to stand up for the rights of freedom:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zt-RyUngNpQ
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Hot Dog Diplomacy - 2009-06-23 9:22 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/23/state-department-iranian-diplomats-welcome-july-parties/

 Quote:
Iranians will have to decide whether they want to attend Fourth of July celebrations at U.S. embassies, President Obama said Tuesday, linking their attendance to the potential for warming between the two nations.

The United States and Iran don't have formal diplomatic relations but Obama said that it's up to the Iranian diplomats to decide whether to use an invitation to attend embassy festivities as an opening.

"I think that we have said that if Iran chooses a path that abides by international norms and principles, then we are interested in healing some of the wounds of 30 years in terms of U.S.-Iranian relations. But that is a choice that the Iranians are going to have to make," Obama said during a press conference in the White House briefing room.

Despite a crackdown on protesters by the Iranian government, State Department spokesman Ian Kelley on Monday reaffirmed the invitation to Iranian diplomats to attend Independence Day parties at U.S. embassies around the world next month.

Kelly that no one is going to take back offers for Iranian officials to join the festivities, even as the Islamic Republic's leaders threaten violence against protesters at home demonstrating against falsified presidential election results.

"There's no thought to rescinding the invitations to Iranian diplomats," Kelly said. "We have made a strategic decision to engage on a number of fronts with Iran. And -- and we tried many years of isolation, and we're pursuing a different path now."

Late last month, the State Department encouraged officials at all U.S. embassies and consulates to ask their Iranian counterparts to attend the July 4 parties, which generally feature speeches about American values, fireworks, hot dogs and hamburgers.

The notice said that the posts "may invite representatives from the government of Iran" to the events.

The move came amid the administration's ongoing efforts to engage Iran in variety of venues, including formal diplomatic meetings over its nuclear program, violence in Iraq and the situation in Afghanistan.

But the decision "stunned" the ranking Republican on the House Foreign Affairs Committee

"I am stunned that some find it appropriate for U.S. officials to comingle with officials, representatives and agents of the Iranian regime this Independence Day. What kind of message does this send to the Iranian people, who are bravely standing up for the same rights and freedoms which Americans celebrate on this day?" asked Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, R-Fla., an outspoken critic of Iran, Cuba and other despotic regimes.

"It is time for the United States to rescind this invitation and, instead, express our unwavering support for the Iranian people and their dreams and ideals. This Independence Day, we must stand with all who yearn to live free, instead of fraternizing with their oppressors," she said.

It was not immediately clear how many embassies and consulates would actually invite Iranian diplomats to the July 4 parties or whether any Iranians would accept the invitations.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Hot Dog Diplomacy - 2009-06-23 10:03 PM
....because nothing says "independence day" like a wienie roast with the Mullahs.
Posted By: thedoctor Re: Hot Dog Diplomacy - 2009-06-23 10:13 PM
See, that's nothing but trouble. One: They won't eat pork because Allah says it's bad. Two: You try to be nice and buy some Kosher hot dogs. Then, they all get pissed off because you've compared them to the Jews, who fake the whole Holocaust thing, btw. Three: Even if you can calm them down after all of that, they're still pissed that you're serving hot dogs because, as it's been pointed out, Muslims hate dogs. It's better to just have an ice cream social instead.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Hot Dog Diplomacy - 2009-06-23 10:18 PM
 Originally Posted By: thedoctor
It's better to just have an ice cream social instead.


Funny you should mention ice cream. I just saw this on another site:
Posted By: the G-man Re: Hot Dog Diplomacy - 2009-06-24 2:59 AM
Final Insult: 'Bullet Fee' for Slain Man. Iranian couple who lost only son in protests say they were told to pay $3,000 to recover body, pay for bullet
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Hot Dog Diplomacy - 2009-06-24 5:31 AM
what bothers me most about this is I'm sure the liberals in this country had never thought of a body tax, im sure theyll consider implementing this soon as well!
Posted By: thedoctor Re: Hot Dog Diplomacy - 2009-06-24 4:50 PM
Don't forget the bullet tax for when you're loved one is killed by the stormtroopers while refusing to go to the 're-education camps'.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Hot Dog Diplomacy - 2009-06-24 8:06 PM
Protesters Shot 'Like Animals' in Iran: New violence erupts as Iranian riot police open fire on protesters.

U.S. Contacted Iran Supreme Leader Before Election: the Obama administration sent a letter to the country's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, calling for an improvement in relations.
Posted By: thedoctor Re: Hot Dog Diplomacy - 2009-06-24 9:07 PM
Does this count as Obama throwing the Iranian people under the bus?
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Hot Dog Diplomacy - 2009-06-25 12:11 AM
hey he's already thrown the American people under it, why not the Iranians?
Posted By: Irwin Schwab US: Settlement freeze must include J'lem - 2009-06-25 12:45 AM
Obama constantly states we shouldnt interfere with Iran's internal affairs. I wonder why Israel doesn't get the same respect:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1245184902559&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

 Quote:
Jewish neighborhoods in east Jerusalem are included in the US demand that Israel halt "settlement" construction, including for natural growth, State Department spokesman Ian Kelly told The Jerusalem Post during a press briefing on Monday.

"We're talking about all settlement activity, yes, in the area across the line," he said, referring to neighborhoods in Jerusalem over the Green Line, or pre-1967 armistice line, in response to a question on where America's calls to halt construction in the settlements would be applied.

Even so, Kelly had no immediate reaction to the Ministry of Housing and Construction's inclusion in the draft 2009-10 state budget of funds for the capital's Jewish Har Homa neighborhood or for one in the West Bank settlement of Ma'aleh Adumim.

The ministry has earmarked more than NIS 200 million for the preparatory work and marketing of 1,210 apartments in the east Jerusalem Jewish neighborhood of Har Homa.

The line item, which sets aside funds for the new apartment projects, can be found in the draft state budget now being debated in the Knesset.

The money for these projects has been allocated at a time when tensions remain high between Israel and the United States regarding construction over the Green Line.

Israel has always insisted that it has a right to build anywhere in Jerusalem because the state incorporated that land into the municipality and under Israeli law it is not considered part of the West Bank. But the international community considers Jewish neighborhoods in east Jerusalem to be settlements and has condemned any new Jewish construction there.

Har Homa has been a particular sticking point because of its location on the city's southeast edge, next to the Palestinian city of Bethlehem.

The Obama administration had not officially clarified its position on Jewish neighborhoods over the Green Line but within Jerusalem's municipal boundaries, but the Netanyahu government had been working under the assumption that US officials' call to halt even natural growth in the settlements did not refer to neighborhoods in the city, according to high-placed government officials.

Kelly's comments Monday, however, made clear that Jerusalem was included, suggesting that efforts to finesse the disagreement could be further complicated.

US President Barack Obama has called the settlements illegitimate and said that their expansion must stop, including natural growth.

While Israel has expressed its willingness to take down unauthorized West Bank outposts, it has balked at halting natural growth in the settlements, arguing that communities need to continue to function normally.

The dispute between the two allies has been unusually public, including messy wrangling over tacit arrangements sketched out far from the spotlight under the Bush administration.

Though Israel in 2003 signed onto the US-sponsored road map peace plan, which calls for a settlement freeze including natural growth, government sources claim that Bush officials assented to construction continuing in settlements expected to remain with Israel under any peace accord with the Palestinians.

The Obama administration, however, has contended that if such understandings were ever discussed in private, they were not resolved or made binding.

Either way, as part of the Bush-era arrangements, Israel was supposed to stop providing financial incentives for Israelis to move to these communities.

Though the new budget proposal might not subsidize individuals, it would provide money for some of the work on the 240 pre-approved homes in 2009 as well as marketing and preparatory work for 970 additional units in Har Homa, which still await approval from the Jerusalem Municipality.

Unlike in the West Bank, construction in Har Homa or any other part of Jerusalem does not need the approval of the Prime Minister's Office or the Defense Ministry.

The Prime Minister's Office had no comment on the earmarking of funds for Har Homa. The Jerusalem Municipality and the Construction and Housing Ministry could not be reached for a reaction.

Peace Now's Hagit Ofran, who alerted reporters to the line item in the draft budget, said pushing ahead with Har Homa construction would be "unwise."

"It risks our foreign relations and our international standing for another project which is totally leading us to a situation where we cannot have a two-state solution," Ofran said.

The same 2009-2010 budget includes more than NIS 150m. for infrastructure work in the Ma'aleh Adumim settlement, east of the capital. The funds would create gardens, parks and roads for homes that have already been built in a neighborhood known as 07. Work has been ongoing in that neighborhood for the last decade, and some 3,100 apartment units have been built there. Some 400 apartment units have yet to be completed in that area.

Ma'aleh Adumim Mayor Benny Kashriel said that private contractors had financed all the recent work on the project.

The money from the ministry's budget for this project was a fiction, he said, in that it merely returned funds that were paid to the ministry by the contractors.

But a ministry spokesman said money had been set aside by his office to complete the 07 project.

Peace Now attacked the funding of the Ma'aleh Adumim project, saying it ran counter to the expectations of the United States and the international community that Israel would freeze settlement activity, which meant stopping any construction.

From 2003 to 2007, some 2,000 new apartment units were completed in the Jerusalem suburb, which Israel has made clear it expects to keep in any final-status deal with the Palestinians.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009...=home_headlines

 Quote:
Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton urged President Obama for two days to toughen his language on Iran before he did so, and then was surprised when he condemned Iran's crackdown on demonstrators last week, administration officials say.

At his June 23 news conference, Mr. Obama said he was "appalled and outraged" by Iranian behavior and "strongly condemned" the violence against anti-government demonstrators. Up until then, Mr. Obama and other administration officials had taken a softer line, expressing "deep concern" about the situation and calling on Iran to "respect the dignity of its own people."

Behind the scenes, the officials, who spoke on the condition that they not be named because they were discussing internal deliberations, said Mrs. Clinton had been advocating the stronger U.S. response, but the president resisted. When he finally took her advice, the aides said, he did so without informing her first.

This was the first known example of awkwardness between the two former rivals for the Democratic nomination for president since they made up following Mr. Obama's election. The disagreement also gave some insight into the Obama administration's foreign policy decision-making process five months into its term.

The officials said they were familiar with the language Mr. Obama used in his news conference because it was sent to the State Department a day earlier, but that Mrs. Clinton did not know until he uttered the words that he would choose that moment to make them public.

OTHER TWT STORIES:
• Rep. Kaptur gets $3.5 billion sweetener in climate bill
• GOP: EPA hid global warming memo
• Sanford says he 'crossed lines' with additional women
• Conyers supported project linked to wife
• Obama lauds troop withdraw

"It was a happy surprise," one administration official said. "It was echoing the line the secretary had been pushing for a couple of days."

Another official said Mr. Obama apparently did not make the final decision to go ahead with the tougher stance until shortly before his remarks.

"I don't think he himself had decided to do it until he did it, but we knew full well it was headed that way, because the White House sent over the actual language he'd use if he chose to take that line for folks to review and weigh in on, which State did," the second official said.

The White House and the State Department declined to comment publicly on Mrs. Clinton's "private advice" to Mr. Obama and their internal communications.

Key congressional Republicans - most prominently Sen. John McCain of Arizona, who was Mr. Obama's opponent in last year's election - criticized the president for being too "timid" and failing to speak out early against the Iranian regime's crackdown on protests following the disputed June 12 presidential election.

Mr. Obama initially said he did not want to appear to be interfering in Iran's internal affairs and provide ammunition to the regime, which tends to blame the United States and other Western countries for any unrest. In addition, he knew he would most likely have to deal with the current government as part of the West's efforts to prevent Iran from producing a nuclear weapon, officials said.

"On the one hand, he may have felt that the United States should naturally criticize the Iranian government's violent crackdown on the protesters," said Alireza Nader, an analyst at the Rand Corp. "On the other, he acknowledged that the U.S. was still willing to engage with Iran in the future. Strong U.S. criticism of the Iranian government could jeopardize future negotiations."

Mrs. Clinton agreed with the president, but she thought it was time to get tougher after the June 20 killing of a young woman, Neda Agha-Soltan, on a Tehran street, officials said. A video of the killing was widely viewed on the Internet.

At the same time, they added, she was content to leave the decision to Mr. Obama, because she understood that he bore ultimate responsibility for any consequences.

However, Mr. Obama's sudden decision to toughen his language on Tehran had the effect of making the State Department look out of sync with the White House.

Until about an hour before the presidential news conference, the State Department continued to follow a more cautious public line, using words like "deeply concerned" about the situation in Iran, but refusing to "condemn" the crackdown. Then came Mr. Obama's surprise.

"The United States and the international community have been appalled and outraged by the threats, the beatings and imprisonments of the last few days," he said. "I strongly condemn these unjust actions, and I join with the American people in mourning each and every innocent life that is lost."

The decision on Iran was very personal, officials said. Mr. Obama knew his senior aides' views, but it was up to him to "pull the trigger."

"We have so few tools when we deal with Iran, and we don't fully understand what's going on, so all we've got is what the president says," the first administration official said. "There isn't a huge process behind it."

In general, the officials said, Mr. Obama has relied on the government bureaucracy to formulate language on foreign affairs.

For example, before Mr. Obama's meeting with German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Friday, everything he said was a "result of a long process involving meetings and briefing papers," the official said. Even with North Korea, another country that has no diplomatic relations with the U.S., "we have a formalized mechanism in the six-party [nuclear] talks and more moving pieces."

Analysts said the Iran episode shows Mr. Obama's nuanced thinking and in-depth analysis of foreign policy, although some warned that he risks being too cautious and appearing indecisive.

"The demonstrators in Iran have revealed the extreme caution of Obama's approach to the world, as if he is afraid of making a mistake, and his dislike of disruptions to an agenda he has already laid out," Reginald Dale, director of the Transatlantic Media Network at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said in reference to the president's offer of engagement, which so far has been spurned by Tehran.

Kim R. Holmes, vice president of the Heritage Foundation, who was assistant secretary of state for international organizations in the George W. Bush administration, said: "The caution that we should not meddle was shown to be pointless after the Iranian leadership blamed the protests on America and Britain anyway."

Michael J. Green, former senior director for East Asian affairs on the National Security Council in the Bush White House, said Mr. Obama may be trying the learn from his predecessor's mistakes.

Mr. Bush tended to make decisions during meetings with his national security team, but the problem was that his aides "interpreted his directions differently," especially during his first term, Mr. Green said.

At the time, Secretary of State Colin L. Powell's aides often said that he "felt good" about the outcome of a White House meeting, because Mr. Bush had taken his advice. Vice President Dick Cheney and Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld felt the same way, except that their advice was usually very different.

"It seems that Obama is trying to avoid such confusion by laying out specifically what he wants," Mr. Green said.

As involved as Mrs. Clinton may have been in the process leading up to Mr. Obama's decision on Iran, "the secretary of state usually doesn't have the last say, because he or she is not there with the president all the time," he said. "With all the modern technology, location still means power."
Posted By: the G-man Crack in the Iranian Clerical Wall - 2009-07-05 6:48 PM
It's not just Western-oriented students who say the recent election was stolen:
  • The most important group of religious leaders in Iran called the disputed presidential election and the new government illegitimate on Saturday, an act of defiance against the country's supreme leader and the most public sign of a major split in the country's clerical establishment.

    A statement by the group, the Association of Researchers and Teachers of Qum, represents a significant, if so far symbolic, setback for the government and especially the authority of the supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, whose word is supposed to be final. The government has tried to paint the opposition and its top presidential candidate, Mir Hussein Moussavi, as criminals and traitors, a strategy that now becomes more difficult - if not impossible.

    "This crack in the clerical establishment, and the fact they are siding with the people and Moussavi, in my view is the most historic crack in the 30 years of the Islamic republic," said Abbas Milani, director of the Iranian Studies Program at Stanford University. "Remember, they are going against an election verified and sanctified by Khamenei."


This could be the opening Obama is waiting for. Now that a group of MUSLIM leaders have spoken out, perhaps he can do something about supporting democracy over there.
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Crack in the Iranian Clerical Wall - 2009-07-05 6:50 PM
I am hopeful for Iran, as I learned from Obama's recent speech in Cairo this country was founded on Muslim principles.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Crack in the Iranian Clerical Wall - 2009-07-05 7:13 PM
 Originally Posted By: BASAMS The Plumber
I am hopeful for Iran, as I learned from Obama's recent speech in Cairo this country was founded on Muslim principles.


please tell me you're joking. he didn't really say that?
Posted By: the G-man Re: Crack in the Iranian Clerical Wall - 2009-07-05 11:39 PM
 Originally Posted By: the G-man of Zur-En-Arrh
It's not just Western-oriented students who say the recent election was stolen:
  • The most important group of religious leaders in Iran called the disputed presidential election and the new government illegitimate on Saturday, an act of defiance against the country's supreme leader and the most public sign of a major split in the country's clerical establishment.

    A statement by the group, the Association of Researchers and Teachers of Qum, represents a significant, if so far symbolic, setback for the government and especially the authority of the supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, whose word is supposed to be final. The government has tried to paint the opposition and its top presidential candidate, Mir Hussein Moussavi, as criminals and traitors, a strategy that now becomes more difficult - if not impossible.

    "This crack in the clerical establishment, and the fact they are siding with the people and Moussavi, in my view is the most historic crack in the 30 years of the Islamic republic," said Abbas Milani, director of the Iranian Studies Program at Stanford University. "Remember, they are going against an election verified and sanctified by Khamenei."


This could be the opening Obama is waiting for. Now that a group of MUSLIM leaders have spoken out, perhaps he can do something about supporting democracy over there.


And like clockwork...

Biden: U.S. Won't Stand in Israel's Way on Iran Nukes. Vice president gives Israel apparent green light for military action to eliminate Iran's nuclear threat
Posted By: the G-man Re: Crack in the Iranian Clerical Wall - 2009-07-06 5:57 AM
Report: Saudis Give Nod to Israeli Strike on Iran.

So it's true. The Obama administration waited until it had permission from the Saudi Royal Family before deciding on how to deal with Iran.
 Originally Posted By: G-man (article)
Saudis Give Nod to Israeli Strike on Iran

Sunday, July 05, 2009
Reuters


The head of Mossad, Israel's overseas intelligence service, has assured Benjamin Netanyahu, its prime minister, that Saudi Arabia would turn a blind eye to Israeli jets flying over the kingdom during any future raid on Iran's nuclear sites.

Earlier this year Meir Dagan, Mossad's director since 2002, held secret talks with Saudi officials to discuss the possibility.

The Israeli press has already carried unconfirmed reports that high-ranking officials, including Ehud Olmert, the former prime minister, held meetings with Saudi colleagues. The reports were denied by Saudi officials.

"The Saudis have tacitly agreed to the Israeli air force flying through their airspace on a mission which is supposed to be in the common interests of both Israel and Saudi Arabia," a diplomatic source said last week.

Although the countries have no formal diplomatic relations, an Israeli defense source confirmed that Mossad maintained "working relations" with the Saudis.

John Bolton, the former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations who recently visited the Gulf, said it was "entirely logical" for the Israelis to use Saudi airspace.

Bolton, who has talked to several Arab leaders, added: "None of them would say anything about it publicly but they would certainly acquiesce in an overflight if the Israelis didn't trumpet it as a big success."


Interesting, and short enough to print in its entirety.

so it was Israel who got the Saudis' permission and potential use of Saudi air space for an air strike on Iran.
I misunderstood you to say that Obama asked the Saudis' permission.

An easy mistake, given Obama's bow to the Saudi king earlier.
And Obama's questionable closeted muslim faith.
And Obama's saying there were 57 states (coincidentally, the number of muslim states).
And Obama's denouncing that America is a "Christian nation", despite that upwards of 90% of U.S. citizens identify themselves as Christian, whether or not they attend church. And that our Declaration, Constitution, and principles expanded on in the writings of our Founding Fathers clearly say that our government was unquestionably inspired by Christian principles.
And Obama's tendency to apologize for U.S. history and foreign policy.
And Obama's ties to Frank Marshall Davis, William Ayers, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, ACORN, and Saul Alinsky.
Gee, what could possibly make one think Obama would put foreign interests above the security needs of the United States?
Posted By: rex Re: Crack in the Iranian Clerical Wall - 2009-07-06 9:57 AM
Thanks for clarifying that g-man posted an article. Not all of us knew that since he put the link in his post.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,532963,00.html

 Quote:
Two Israeli missile class warships have sailed through the Suez Canal, ten days after a submarine capable of launching a nuclear missile strike, in preparation for a possible attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities.

The deployment into the Red Sea, confirmed by Israeli officials, was a clear signal that Israel was able to put its strike force within range of Iran at short notice. It came before long-range exercises by the Israeli air force in America later this month and the test of a missile defense shield at a U.S. missile range in the Pacific Ocean.

Israel has strengthened ties with Arab nations who also fear a nuclear-armed Iran. In particular, relations with Egypt have grown increasingly strong this year over the “shared mutual distrust of Iran”, according to one Israeli diplomat. Israeli naval vessels would likely pass through the Suez Canal for an Iranian strike.

“This is preparation that should be taken seriously. Israel is investing time in preparing itself for the complexity of an attack on Iran. These maneuvers are a message to Iran that Israel will follow up on its threats,” an Israeli defense official said.

It is believed that Israel’s missile-equipped submarines, and its fleet of advanced aircraft, could be used to strike at in excess of a dozen nuclear-related targets more than 800 miles from Israel.

Ahmed Aboul Gheit, the Egyptian Foreign Minister, said that his Government explicitly allowed passage of Israeli vessels, and an Israeli admiral said that the drills were “run regularly with the full co-operation of the Egyptians.”

Two Israeli Saar class missile boats and a Dolphin class submarine have passed through Suez. Israel has six Dolphin-class submarines, three of which are widely believed to carry nuclear missiles.
maybe Israel will do what Obama does not have the balls to do.
Iran gives new meaning to the whole "marry fuck or kill" game:
  • Members of Iran's feared Basij militia forcibly marry female virgin prisoners the night before scheduled executions, raping their new "wives" and making it religiously acceptable to execute them.

    In the Islamic Republic of Iran it is illegal to execute a woman if she is a virgin, the former guard told the newspaper. So the government arranges "wedding" ceremonies to be conducted the night before executions, and prisoners are forced to have sexual intercourse with a guard.

    Raped by her new "husband," a female prisoner is now fit to be put to death.
Where are the feminazis that should be up in arms about Obama negotiating with these guys?
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/25/accuse-iran-building-secret-nuke-plant/

 Quote:
President Obama, along with the leaders of Britain and France, demanded Friday that Iran immediately allow international weapons monitors to inspect a nuclear facility the Islamic Republic acknowledges it has been secretly building for years.

Obama, joined by British Prime Minister Gordon Brown and French President Nicolas Sarkozy at the opening of the G-20 economic summit in Pittsburgh, warned Iran that it will be "held accountable" to an impatient world community if it does not fully disclose its nuclear ambitions.

"Iran has the right for peaceful power, but the size of the facility is inconsistent with a peaceful program," Obama said. "Iran is breaking rules that all nations must follow, endangering the world non-nuclear proliferation regime ... and the security of the world."

Sarkozy said Iran has until December to comply or face sanctions. "This is for peace and stability," the French leader said. Brown accused Iran of "serial deception."

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton also called for an immediate probe of the site by the International Atomic Energy Agency.

Iran revealed the existence of its covert uranium enrichment facility to the International Atomic Energy Agency this week after it discovered the project's secrecy had been breached by Western intelligence agencies.

An official told FOX News that Iran revealed the existence of the second plant in a letter sent Monday to IAEA chief Mohamed ElBaradei.

Iran is under three sets of U.N. Security Council sanctions for refusing to freeze enrichment at what had been its single known enrichment plant, which is being monitored by the IAEA.

A senior administration official told FOX News that the U.S. has been tracking the secret project for years.

Iran's letter to the IAEA contained no details about the location of the second facility, when -- or if -- it had started operations, or the type and number of centrifuges it was running.

"They [Iran] have cheated three times, and they have now been caught three times," an unnamed official with access to the intelligence told The New York Times.

But one of the officials, who had access to a review of Western intelligence on the issue, said it was about 100 miles southwest of Tehran and was the site of 3,000 centrifuges that could be operational by next year.

Iranian officials had previously acknowledged having only one plant, which the IAEA has been monitoring, and had denied allegations of undeclared nuclear activities.

The last IAEA report on Iran in August said Iran had set up more than 8,000 centrifuges to churn out enriched uranium at the cavernous underground Natanz facility, although the report said that only about 4,600 of those were fully active.

The Islamic Republic insists that it has the right to generate fuel for what it says will be a nationwide chain of nuclear reactors. But because uranium enrichment can make both fuel and weapons-grade uranium, the international community fears Tehran will use the technology to generate the fissile material used on the tip of nuclear warheads.

The revelation of a secret plant further hinders the chances of progress in scheduled Oct. 1 talks between Iran and six world powers.

At that meeting -- the first in more than a year -- the five permanent U.N. Security Council members and Germany plan to press Iran to scale back on its enrichment activities. Tehran has declared that it will not bargain on enrichment.

While Iran's mainstay P-1 centrifuge is a decades-old model based on Chinese technology, it has begun experimenting with state-of-the art prototypes that enrich uranium more quickly and efficiently.

U.N. officials familiar with the IAEA's attempts to monitor and probe Iran's nuclear activities have previously told the AP that they suspected Iran might be running undeclared enrichment plants.

The existence of a secret Iranian enrichment program built on black-market technology was revealed seven years ago. Since then, the country has continued to expand the program with only a few interruptions as it works toward its aspirations of a 50,000-centrifuge enrichment facility at the southern city of Natanz.
Oh shit Iran did it now. Obama has said they will be "held accountable". I bet they feel like idiots for lying to him. It will serve them right if he calls for another round of meetings on the subject.
the shit will really hit the fan for them if he scolds them in front of the UN. I bet that will stop them cold!
Posted By: the G-man Biden: Iran not a threat - 2009-09-27 6:03 PM
Ten days ago:According to CNN, Joe Biden says that a missile-defense system in Europe isn’t really necessary, because Iran isn’t much of a threat.

Two Days ago: We learn that in the nine months since he took office, President Obama has pursued a policy of engagement with Iran, while knowing that they were hiding a secret nuclear facility from the world and cheating a system of international inspections that is supposed to be a key element of preventing dangerous nuclear proliferation.

Today: Iran will test-fire a missile on Monday that could have the capability to hit Israel and U.S. bases in the Gulf region, Reuters reported.
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Biden: Iran not a threat - 2009-09-27 6:06 PM
This is why such a big deal was made about Obama's lack of experience and Biden's idiocy during the campaign. change for change sake isn't always good.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Biden: Iran not a threat - 2009-09-27 9:10 PM
Obama offers Iran 'serious dialogue': US President Barack Obama continued to offer Iran "serious, meaningful dialogue," despite revelations it was building a second secret nuclear facility
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Biden: Iran not a threat - 2009-09-27 10:58 PM
 Originally Posted By: Abin Sure
Shithead-stain.

Posted By: Irwin Schwab Sarkozy's Contempt for Obama - 2009-10-01 5:08 AM
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/09/29/sarkozys_contempt_for_obama.html

 Quote:
The contempt with which the president of France regards the president of the United States was displayed in public last week.

Nicolas Sarkozy was furious with Barack Obama for his adolescent warbling about a world without nuclear weapons at a meeting Mr. Obama chaired of the United Nations Security Council last Thursday (9/24).

Receive news alerts
Sign Up
Jack Kelly RealClearPolitics
Barack Obama Nicolas Sarkozy
President United States
France United Nations Security Council
[+] More

"We must never stop until we see the day when nuclear arms have been banished from the face of the earth," President Obama said.

What infuriated President Sarkozy was that at the time Mr. Obama said those words, Mr. Obama knew the mullahs in Iran had a secret nuclear weapons development site, and he didn't call them on it.

‘President Obama dreams of a world without weapons...but right in front of us two countries are doing the exact opposite," Mr. Sarkozy said.

"Iran since 2005 has flouted five Security Council resolutions," Mr. Sarkozy said. "North Korea has been defying Council resolutions since 1993."

"What good has proposals for dialogue brought the international community?" he asked rhetorically. "More uranium enrichment and declarations by the leaders of Iran to wipe out a UN member state off the map."

If the Security Council had imposed serious sanctions on the regimes which are flouting UN resolutions, the resolution Mr. Obama proposed about working toward nuclear disarmament wouldn't have been so meaningless, Mr. Sarkozy implied.

"If we have courage to impose sanctions together it will lend viability to our commitment to reduce or own weapons and to making a world without nuke weapons," he said.

The extent of President Obama's naivete - or duplicity - was on display Friday at the G20 summit when the president, flanked by Mr. Sarkozy and British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, revealed to the American public that Iran had a second nuclear weapons site on a military base near the holy city of Qom.

News reports indicated Mr. Obama had been briefed on the site before his inauguration. But he's been conducting his foreign policy as if the mullahs could be trusted.

"Iran has been put on notice," President Obama said in Pittsburgh.

Iran responded to being "put on notice" by testing Monday two ballistic missiles that could carry a nuclear warhead 1,200 miles.

It was to protect Europe from such missiles that the ABM system President Obama abruptly cancelled earlier this month was designed.

Obama administration officials said the ABM cancellation - regarded as a betrayal by Poland and the Czech Republic, where the missiles and radars were to be located - actually improved U.S. security, because it has made Russia more amenable to sanctions against Iran.

The UN Security Council has never passed strong sanctions against Iran because Russia and China have vetoed them. Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said he still doesn't like economic sanctions, but will support them if diplomacy fails. China remains opposed.

President Obama shouldn't count on Russian support, said Soviet expert David Satter.

"Words are cheap for the Kremlin and the Iranians are aware of this," he said. "The Russians, having endorsed sanctions, will now find hundreds of reasons why any specific sanctions package is unfair...The reason is that support for Iran is Russia's most important trump card in foreign relations and there is little likelihood they will give it up."

Iran has been put on notice before. At the G8 meeting in Italy in July, Mr. Obama and other leaders set a "firm deadline" of Sep. 10 for the Iranians to make a serious offer to negotiate about their nuclear program. When the mullahs blew him off, Mr. Obama quietly extended the deadline until December.

December could be too late. "Tehran soon could have humankind's most frightening weapon if substantial diplomatic progress is not made in the coming days," Rep. Howard Berman (D-Cal), the chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee said Saturday (9/26).

If severe economic sanctions are not imposed immediately, in months if not in weeks, only a military strike will b e able to prevent an Iranian bomb.

But after sternly lecturing Iran on its international obligations Friday, President Obama didn't call for sanctions. He called for more negotiations. And then, as the Iranians were spitting in his eye with the missile test, he jetted off to Copenhagen to lobby to have the 2016 Olympics held in Chicago.

No wonder Nicolas Sarkozy holds him in contempt.
Posted By: PJP Re: Sarkozy's Contempt for Obama - 2009-10-01 5:28 AM
too bad Sarkozy wasn't in charge in 2003. france would have been more help in the war in iraq and maybe would have gotten russia on board as well.
Posted By: Captain Sammitch Re: Sarkozy's Contempt for Obama - 2009-10-01 5:38 AM
kinda sad when the french are calling obama a chickenshit!
Posted By: thedoctor Re: Sarkozy's Contempt for Obama - 2009-10-01 5:58 AM
His claims have merit, but they're totally hypocritical. Yet another reason to bomb France.
Posted By: Captain Sammitch Re: Sarkozy's Contempt for Obama - 2009-10-01 6:16 AM
we need a reason?!?
Posted By: the G-man Re: Still Kissing Iranian Ass - 2009-10-10 11:47 PM
Iran Sentences 3 to Death in Post-Election Unrest Trial: Three defendants in Iran's mass trial of opposition figures accused of fueling the country's postelection unrest have been sentenced to death
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Still Kissing Iranian Ass - 2009-10-15 9:04 AM
I saw a great interview with Henry Kissenger tonight on the Greta Van Susteren program.

He said "we have not begun to see the ramifications of Iran getting nuclear weapons." That it will mean Turkey, Saudi Arabia and other surrounding arab nations pursuing nuclear development as well, to protect themselves from Iranian nuclear capability.

And that with 9-11-2001, even though 3,000 people were killed, the hospitals were intact and damage minimal. He asked to imagine a nuclear bombing of a city, with 100,000 dead, with no rescue/medical facilities intact to care for the wounded.

A powerful overview of what happens, if Obama continues to passively accept that Iran will get nukes.

Posted By: thedoctor Elite Iranian Guard Arrested in Pakistan - 2009-10-26 7:46 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091026/ap_on_re_as/as_pakistan_iran
 Quote:
Pakistani police arrested 11 Iranian Revolutionary Guard officers Monday for illegally entering the country, amid tensions over a recent suicide attack that Tehran alleges was carried out by militants backed by Pakistani intelligence officials.

The 11 officers were taken into custody in Mashkel, close to the countries' border in the southwestern province of Baluchistan, police officer Dadur Raman said. He said officers were interrogating the men and had seized two vehicles.

Another security official said the guards had no travel documents.

"We need to probe that," said Murtaza Baig, a spokesman for the paramilitary border force.

Ties between Pakistan and Iran have been strained since an Oct. 18 suicide attack killed 15 members of the powerful Revolutionary Guard, including five senior commanders, and at least 27 others in the town of Pishin on the Iranian side of the border.

Iranian officials blamed the Sunni rebel group known as Jundallah, or Soldiers of God, in the attack. Iran's president and the Guard chief have since publicly accused Pakistan's intelligence service of supporting Jundallah.

Pakistan's president met with Iran's interior minister in Islamabad on Sunday to discuss the attack.

President Asif Ali Zardari vowed to cooperate in capturing any attackers and said those behind the blasts "were the enemies of both countries."

Other Pakistani officials have denied Iranian charges that the leader of Jundallah, Abdulmalik Rigi, is in Pakistan, saying he is in Afghanistan.

Pakistan has been accused of past and ongoing support of militant activities in two of its other neighboring countries, Afghanistan and India, greatly complicating relations with both of them. Tensions with another regional power would only add to the problems facing the country as it battles al-Qaida and the Taliban within its borders.

Jundullah has waged a low-level insurgency in Iran's southeast in recent years, claiming to fight on behalf of the Baluchi ethnic minority, which it says is persecuted by Iran's government.

In an attempt to boost security in the region, Iran in April put the Revolutionary Guard directly in control of the Sistan-Baluchistan Province in Iran's southeastern corner.

The Guard is Iran's strongest military force, which is directly linked to the ruling clerics. The 120,000-strong Guard also controls Iran's missile program and guards its nuclear facilities.

Iran has also accused the United States and Britain of having links with Jundullah, charges both nations deny.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Biden: Iran not a threat - 2009-10-30 4:41 PM
Iran’s Latest Provocation
  • Iran has rejected the essence of a Western proposal under which it would have shipped some 75 percent of its stockpile of low-enriched uranium (LEU) abroad for further processing into fuel for a research reactor.

    Instead, Iran is demanding that it first be supplied with reactor fuel fabricated from foreign uranium. Only then will it consider sending any of its own LEU abroad. In the intervening months, of course, Iranian centrifuges would continue to spin, additional LEU would be produced, and Iran’s defenses of its nuclear sites would continue to be hardened against possible military attack. The Times quotes a European official as saying, “The key issue is that Iran does not agree to export its lightly enriched uranium. That’s not a minor detail. That’s the whole point of the deal.”
Posted By: the G-man Re: Biden: Iran not a threat - 2009-11-09 5:37 PM
Iran Reportedly Charges 3 Detained American Hikers With Espionage: Shane Bauer, 27, Sarah Shourd, 31, and Josh Fattal, 27, have been detained in Iran since July 31. Their families say they entered the Islamic Republic accidentally while hiking in a scenic area of northern Iraq.

Looks like Carter II may be getting his own hostage crisis to deal with.
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Biden: Iran not a threat - 2009-11-09 10:17 PM
the sad part is the sad sack for a President we have now is even more spineless than Carter.
Posted By: the G-man Iran to Crack Down on Internet - 2009-11-14 8:11 PM
Iran Creates Special Unit to Go After Opposition on Internet: Police Col. Mehrdad Omidi, who heads the Internet crime unit, said the committee will fight "insults and the spreading of lies," terms widely used by the judiciary to describe opposition activities.

Sounds kind of like what Obama does through Robert Gibbs, his czars and Media Matters.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran to Crack Down on Internet - 2009-11-16 8:18 PM
Nuke Watchdog: Iran to Turn on 'Secret' Facility. U.N. agency says Iran will start up its once-secret nuclear facility outside holy city of Qom in 2011.
Posted By: Captain Sammitch Re: Iran to Crack Down on Internet - 2009-11-17 12:57 AM
it's gonna suck for them if something gets sabotaged malfunctions and irradiates muslim shrines and shit...
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2009-11-23 4:48 PM
Iran begins large-scale air defense war games aimed at protecting its nuclear facilities from attack as an air force commander boasts the country could deter any military strike by Israel.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran to Crack Down on Internet - 2009-12-03 9:14 PM
Iranian Crackdown Goes Global: Iran has been cracking down hard at home. And now, a Wall Street Journal investigation shows, it is extending that crackdown to Iranians abroad as well.
  • In recent months, Iran has been conducting a campaign of harassing and intimidating members of its diaspora world-wide -- not just prominent dissidents -- who criticize the regime, according to former Iranian lawmakers and former members of Iran's elite security force, the Revolutionary Guard, with knowledge of the program.

    Part of the effort involves tracking the Facebook, Twitter and YouTube activity of Iranians around the world, and identifying them at opposition protests abroad, these people say.

    Interviews with roughly 90 ordinary Iranians abroad -- college students, housewives, doctors, lawyers, businesspeople -- in New York, London, Dubai, Sweden, Los Angeles and other places indicate that people who criticize Iran's regime online or in public demonstrations are facing threats intended to silence them.

One example:
  • His first impulse was to dismiss the ominous email as a prank, says a young Iranian-American named Koosha. It warned the 29-year-old engineering student that his relatives in Tehran would be harmed if he didn't stop criticizing Iran on Facebook.

    Two days later, his mom called. Security agents had arrested his father in his home in Tehran and threatened him by saying his son could no longer safely return to Iran.

    "When they arrested my father, I realized the email was no joke," said Koosha, who asked that his full name not be used.
http://article.nationalreview.com/423580/how-to-save-the-obama-presidency-bomb-iran/daniel-pipes

 Quote:
I do not customarily offer advice to a president whose election I opposed, whose goals I fear, and whose policies I work against. But here is an idea for Barack Obama to salvage his tottering administration by taking a step that protects the United States and its allies.

If Obama’s personality, identity, and celebrity captivated a majority of the American electorate in 2008, those qualities proved ruefully deficient for governing in 2009. He failed to deliver on employment and health care, he failed in foreign-policy forays small (e.g., landing the 2016 Olympics) and large (relations with China and Japan). His counterterrorism record barely passes the laugh test.

This poor performance has caused an unprecedented collapse in the polls and the loss of three major by-elections, culminating two weeks ago in an astonishing senatorial defeat in Massachusetts. Obama’s attempts to “reset” his presidency will likely fail if he focuses on economics, where he is just one of many players.

He needs a dramatic gesture to change the public perception of him as a light-weight, bumbling ideologue, preferably in an arena where the stakes are high, where he can take charge, and where he can trump expectations.

Such an opportunity does exist: Obama can give orders for the U.S. military to destroy Iran’s nuclear-weapon capacity.

Circumstances are propitious. First, U.S. intelligence agencies have reversed their preposterous 2007 National Intelligence Estimate, the one that claimed with “high confidence” that Tehran had “halted its nuclear weapons program.” No one other than the Iranian rulers and their agents denies that the regime is rushing headlong to build a large nuclear arsenal.

Second, if the apocalyptic-minded leaders in Tehran get the Bomb, they render the Middle East yet more volatile and dangerous. They might deploy these weapons in the region, leading to massive death and destruction. Eventually, they could launch an electromagnetic pulse attack on the United States, utterly devastating the country. By eliminating the Iranian nuclear threat, Obama protects the homeland and sends a message to American’s friends and enemies.

Third, polling shows longstanding American support for an attack on the Iranian nuclear infrastructure:

Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg, January 2006: 57 percent of Americans favor military intervention if Tehran pursues a program that could enable it to build nuclear arms.

Zogby International, October 2007: 52 percent of likely voters support a U.S. military strike to prevent Iran from building a nuclear weapon; 29 percent oppose such a step.

McLaughlin & Associates, May 2009: When asked whether they would support “using the [U.S.] military to attack and destroy the facilities in Iran which are necessary to produce a nuclear weapon,” 58 percent of 600 likely voters supported the use of force and 30 percent opposed it.

Fox News, September 2009: When asked “Do you support or oppose the United States taking military action to keep Iran from getting nuclear weapons?” 61 percent of 900 registered voters supported military action and 28 opposed it.

Pew Research Center, October 2009: When asked which is more important, “to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons, even if it means taking military action,” or “to avoid a military conflict with Iran, even if it means they may develop nuclear weapons,” 61 percent of 1,500 respondents favored the first reply and 24 percent the second.

Not only does a strong majority — 57, 52, 58, 61, and 61 percent in these five polls — already favor using force, but after a strike Americans will presumably rally around the flag, sending that number much higher.

Fourth, if the U.S.limited its strike to taking out Iran’s nuclear facilities and did not attempt any regime change, it would require few “boots on the ground” and entail relatively few casualties, making an attack more politically palatable.

Just as 9/11 caused voters to forget George W. Bush’s meandering early months, a strike on Iranian facilities would dispatch Obama’s feckless first year down the memory hole and transform the domestic political scene. It would sideline health care, prompt Republicans to work with Democrats, and make the netroots squeal, independents reconsider, and conservatives swoon.

But the chance to do good and do well is fleeting. As the Iranians improve their defenses and approach weaponization, the window of opportunity is closing. The time to act is now, or, on Obama’s watch, the world will soon become a much more dangerous place.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Iran Volunteers to Test Israeli Nukes - 2010-02-09 2:42 AM
Ayatollah: Iran to 'Stun' The West on Feb. 11: Supreme leader reportedly says Iran set to deliver 'punch' to 'stun' world powers on anniversary of Islamic revolution
Posted By: the G-man Iran 'Is Now a Nuclear State' - 2010-02-11 6:32 PM
Iran 'Is Now a Nuclear State': Ignoring threats, Ahmadinejad proclaims the country has produced its first batch of 20 percent enriched uranium
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Biden: Iran not a threat - 2010-02-12 12:44 AM
 Originally Posted By: the G-man
Obama offers Iran 'serious dialogue': US President Barack Obama continued to offer Iran "serious, meaningful dialogue," despite revelations it was building a second secret nuclear facility


how'd that work out?
Posted By: the G-man Re: Biden: Iran not a threat - 2010-02-12 2:31 AM
 Originally Posted By: BASAMS The Plumber
 Originally Posted By: the G-man
Obama offers Iran 'serious dialogue': US President Barack Obama continued to offer Iran "serious, meaningful dialogue," despite revelations it was building a second secret nuclear facility


how'd that work out?


About as well as the rest of the hope and change...
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Biden: Iran not a threat - 2010-02-12 7:07 AM
I really thought all Iran wanted was to be treated nicely, how could i have been so wrong?
Posted By: the G-man Re: Biden: Iran not a threat - 2010-02-12 7:18 AM
It's okay, BSAMS. If they could fool Barack "the smartest man who ever lived" Hussein Obama, they could fool anybody.
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Biden: Iran not a threat - 2010-02-12 9:52 PM
Well then I think we should move to sanctions. If we sanction them from importing technology they are fucked. There is no way anyone will take their billions of oil money and sell them tech under the table.
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Biden: Iran not a threat - 2010-02-12 9:53 PM
It worked with North Korea.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Biden: Iran not a threat - 2010-02-15 4:23 PM
Clinton Says Iran Is Moving Toward Military Dictatorship: believes the Revolutionary Guard has gained so much power it is supplanting government
Posted By: Irwin Schwab Re: Biden: Iran not a threat - 2010-02-15 5:16 PM
Welcome to 2002 Mrs Clinton.
Posted By: the G-man Israel Launches UAV That Can Reach Iran - 2010-02-22 6:47 AM
Israel Launches UAV That Can Reach Iran: The Israeli Air Force Sunday launched a new unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV), dubbed "Eitan," that can stay in the air 24 hours and can reach Iran. Military officials at the ceremony declined to say whether the new UAV was designed for use against Iran and did not specifically mention the Islamic Republic, but foreign news services noted that the Eitan can fly as far as Iran.

Posted By: the G-man Gates: Obama Dropping Ball on Iran - 2010-04-18 4:31 PM
Gates Warns U.S. Lacks Strategy to Stop Iran Nukes: Defense secretary warns in secret memo Obama does not have an effective plan for dealing with Iran's ambitions
Posted By: the G-man Re: Biden: Iran not a threat - 2010-05-14 6:28 PM
Diplomats Say Iran Expands Nuke Enrichment Facility
Posted By: the G-man Date for Iran to Go Nuclear - 2010-08-13 9:08 PM
Russia Sets Date for Iran to Go Nuclear: Russia's nuclear agency says that it will load fuel into Iran's first nuclear power plant, the Bushehr Plant (left), next week, defying U.S. calls to hold off the start of the launch until Iran proves that it's not developing nuclear weapons.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Iran volunteers to test Israeli nukes - 2012-02-17 10:26 PM
Iran Facing Early Election As Pressure on Ahmadinijad Grows


This would be the best case scenario, if Iran were to remove Ahmadinijad and replace him with a more moderate and pro-Western government. If they would go the route of South Africa or Libya, and with a new regime give up their nuclear program to dismantling by U.N. weapons inspectors, in full disclosure.

But I don't see any evidence that in Ahmadinjad's departure, other Iranian leadership would be willing to completely dispose of their nuclear weapons program either.
Posted By: iggy Re: Date for Iran to Go Nuclear - 2012-02-17 10:47 PM
Wow. That's about the stupidest thing I've heard about Iran in awhile. You really don't pay that much attention, do you? Replacing Ahmadinijad really isn't going to help as the elected officials are--more or less--puppets of the Ayatollahs. Read a fucking book other than Obamanomics.
Posted By: iggy Re: Date for Iran to Go Nuclear - 2012-02-18 2:04 AM
The build up to a war with Iran is starting to sound very familiar. Where did I hear all this fear hype before? Oh, yeah...

















Iraq 2003.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Date for Iran to Go Nuclear - 2012-02-18 2:23 AM
 Originally Posted By: WB
But I don't see any evidence that in Ahmadinjad's departure, other Iranian leadership would be willing to completely dispose of their nuclear weapons program either.
Posted By: MisterJLA Re: Date for Iran to Go Nuclear - 2012-02-18 2:33 AM




In the first, the red stars are American bases.

In the second, the flags are American bases.

Either way, we've been setting this up for years.
I love how this dumbass pretends to to be IGNORING you, Iggy, yet STILL RESPONDS to you....but,to "no one". As if he's just talking out loud to....the thin....air. No, that doesn't make him seem even MORE crazy. No, no...
 Originally Posted By: iggy
Wow. That's about the stupidest thing I've heard about Iran in awhile. You really don't pay that much attention, do you? Replacing Ahmadinijad really isn't going to help as the elected officials are--more or less--puppets of the Ayatollahs. Read a fucking book other than Obamanomics.
 Originally Posted By: iggy
The build up to a war with Iran is starting to sound very familiar. Where did I hear all this fear hype before? Oh, yeah...

















Iraq 2003.
Posted By: the G-man Re: Date for Iran to Go Nuclear - 2012-02-18 4:00 AM
 Originally Posted By: iggy
Replacing Ahmadinijad really isn't going to help as the elected officials are--more or less--puppets of the Ayatollahs...


Exactly why we should let Israel nuke 'em till they glow.
Posted By: Captain Sweden Re: Date for Iran to Go Nuclear - 2012-02-18 8:51 AM
 Originally Posted By: the G-man
 Originally Posted By: iggy
Replacing Ahmadinijad really isn't going to help as the elected officials are--more or less--puppets of the Ayatollahs...


Exactly why we should let Israel nuke 'em till they glow.


Why was Israel allowed to get nukes, but not Sweden?
 Originally Posted By: Prometheus
I love how this dumbass pretends to to be IGNORING you, Iggy, yet STILL RESPONDS to you....but,to "no one". As if he's just talking out loud to....the thin....air. No, that doesn't make him seem even MORE crazy. No, no...


\:lol\:

I'm pretty sure he slays giants in the fields of Spain on weekends, too. ;\)

My favorite part of this particular one is that he tries to re-post his final sentence as if it somehow matters. He had already made the contention that upcoming elections could conceivably alter the government of Iran and their nuclear power goals.
Posted By: Prometheus Re: Date for Iran to Go Nuclear - 2012-02-18 7:53 PM
 Originally Posted By: Captain Sweden
 Originally Posted By: the G-man
 Originally Posted By: iggy
Replacing Ahmadinijad really isn't going to help as the elected officials are--more or less--puppets of the Ayatollahs...


Exactly why we should let Israel nuke 'em till they glow.


Why was Israel allowed to get nukes, but not Sweden?


 Originally Posted By: G-Shills
MERICA!!!!FUCKYEAH!!!!
 Originally Posted By: Prometheus
 Originally Posted By: iggy
The build up to a war with Iran is starting to sound very familiar. Where did I hear all this fear hype before? Oh, yeah...

















Iraq 2003.
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Iran volunteers to test Israeli nukes - 2012-02-18 9:26 PM
I can't believe there's dipshits out there who defend Iran and bash the U.S. and Israel as warmongers and so forth.

Iran has been pursuing nukes for 10 years. Many groups outside the U.S. --including the U.N., and including Iran's muslim neighbors-- have expressed certainty and fear that Iran is developing nukes, as well as missiles that could deliver nukes to Europe or the United States, as well as Israel.

The U.S. and U.N. and Israel have given Iran multiple warnings to abandon and fully disclose its nuclear program. The response has been defiance, threats to "wipe Israel off the map", threats against the United States, attempts to assasinate a diplomat inside the U.S., and other provocations. Hardly the actions of an innocent Iranian government.
Plus, y'know, building deeper more bomb-fortified bunkers, to better protect their nuclear weapons program. That doesn't exist.

And yet... these dipshits believe we're the ones provoking war?

If and when an attack on Iran occurs, Iran alone is to blame, for ignoring warning after warning in their pursuit of nuclear weapons "to advance the cause of Islam".

I think it would be fully appropriate to use nukes on Iran, to thoroughly eliminate the nukes they are developing to use on us. Turn Tehran and the ayatollahs pushing this program into molten glass. Remove the head, and the beast advancing nukes will die, and the Iranians left will gladly surrender all nukes, and all future ambitions in that direction.

Allow Iran to have nukes, and Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt and others will develop nukes as well, to establish a counter-balancing defense against a nuclear Iran.
Posted By: iggy Re: Date for Iran to Go Nuclear - 2012-02-18 10:15 PM
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
I think it would be fully appropriate to use nukes on Iran, to thoroughly eliminate the nukes they are developing to use on us. Turn Tehran and the ayatollahs pushing this program into molten glass. Remove the head, and the beast advancing nukes will die, and the Iranians left will gladly surrender all nukes, and all future ambitions in that direction.


Let me guess, this is Christ-loving, Christian Dave saying all of this.



The whole nuclear Iran thing has been pushed by Israel for, at least, twenty years. Netanyahu said is '92 that they would have one by '99. Didn't happen. This is fear/warmongering, par excellence.

We've squandered our wealth and power while Russia and China continue(d) to build theirs up. We've set ourselves up for failure. This isn't about making the world safe for democracy or anything like that. This is all part of Western Civilization making one last dramatic play for power and relevance before it totally collapses. We had our chance to look inward towards renewal in the '90s and we blew it. Now, we've trapped ourselves into the role of Maj. Kong waving his cowboy hat as he rides the bomb.

I guess this is the part where we should, at least, enjoy the ride...


YEE-HAW!
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Date for Iran to Go Nuclear - 2012-02-18 11:18 PM
Posted By: Wonder Boy Re: Date for Iran to Go Nuclear - 2012-02-19 12:13 AM
This article from the Council for Foreign Relations gives an optimistic view of Iran's program, which hopefully means that Iran's development of nukes is at least a year away, and that the U.S. and Israel's harsher rhetoric is more dire than their actual intentions.


IRAN NUCLEAR PROGRAM: RHETORIC AND REALITY

 Quote:
Reading the professional punditry in Washington or the rhetorical nuclear and military pronouncements from Tehran, one would assume that Iran is very close to acquiring a nuclear weapon—and that the United States and Iran are on the brink of war.

In the United States, serious thinkers have offered articles that make “The Case for Military Action in Iran,” advocate for “Why Obama Should Take Out Iran’s Nuclear Program,” and assert it is “Time to Attack Iran.”

Earlier this week, a more extreme version of the Iran-war-determinism meme was penned by Thomas P.M. Barnett, chief analyst at Wikistrat, an organization that refers to itself as “the world’s first Massively Multiplayer Online Consultancy.”

In an op-ed entitled, “The New Rules: The Coming War with Iran,” Barnett wrote:
“Israel and America will soon go to war with Iran—for as many times as it takes. In each instance, our proximate goal will be to kick the nuclear ‘can’ as far down the road as possible, but our ultimate goal will be regime change…Nothing is going to stop this war dynamic from unfolding…nothing. So get ready for war with Iran. Because once Assad is gone, that is what comes next.”

In Tehran, meanwhile, claims are made weekly about the supposed indigenous development of nuclear fuel rods, killer drones, next-generation centrifuges, and long-range missiles. Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad dons a white lab coat, points at some new technological innovation, or walks amidst a uranium-enrichment centrifuge cascade (which itself is under IAEA comprehensive safeguards).

Elsewhere, ballistic missiles are rolled through Tehran like a homecoming parade for threat projections. Or, the possible mock-up of the downed U.S. RQ-170 Sentinel drone is prominently displayed next to uniformed men who run their hands over its radar-reflective skin.

These supposedly groundbreaking “threats” from Tehran are then elevated by the Western media, rewarding the Iranian regime with the strategic communications coup that it so desperately seeks.

Outside of the threat industries in Washington and Tehran, however, are the professional analysts of the U.S. Intelligence Community (IC), who provide assessments of foreign policy and national security issues for policymakers. Yesterday, two senior members of the IC testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee: Director of National Intelligence James Clapper and Lieutenant General Ronald Burgess, chief of the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA). Over the course of two-plus hours, the officials made four statements that provided a much-needed clarifying perspective amidst all the hyperventilating by the media.

Clapper: “We believe the decision [to pursue a nuclear weapon] would be made by the supreme leader himself, and he would base that on a cost-benefit analysis.” Iran does not want “a nuclear weapon at any price.”
Sen. Carl Levin: “Is it your implication that it will take more than a year for Iran to build a bomb?”
Clapper: “Yes, sir.”

Burgess: “The [DIA] assesses Iran is unlikely to initiate or intentionally provoke a conflict.”

Burgess: “To the best of our knowledge, Israel has not decided to attack Iran.”

In other words, according to the heads of the IC and DIA: 1) against all odds, the supposedly “mad Mullahs” of Tehran are endowed with the capacity for rational human thought, and thus there might be diplomatic or economic inducements that could compel an agreement on outstanding questions regarding the nuclear program; 2) the United States has at least a year; 3) Iran is not looking to start a war with the United States; and 4) Israel has not yet decided to undertake a preemptive war with Iran.


The part about how Iran is exaggerating its capability, and that the media is unwittingly promoting Iran's propaganda for them, was particularly interesting.

As was testimony of military/intelligence experts before congress that see the threat as less immediate.



But we likewise didn't see North Korea's nuclear development as that urgent. Until they had them already.
Or see Libya's nuclear development at all, prior to them revealing it in 2003, before giving it to U.N. inspectors for dismantlement.
Or Syria's program more recently with North Korean components, prior to its being bombed to the ground by the Israelis.

Three examples why concern about Iran is not just "paranoia" or "warmongering".
 Originally Posted By: iggy
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
I think it would be fully appropriate to use nukes on Iran, to thoroughly eliminate the nukes they are developing to use on us. Turn Tehran and the ayatollahs pushing this program into molten glass. Remove the head, and the beast advancing nukes will die, and the Iranians left will gladly surrender all nukes, and all future ambitions in that direction.


Let me guess, this is Christ-loving, Christian Dave saying all of this.



The whole nuclear Iran thing has been pushed by Israel for, at least, twenty years. Netanyahu said is '92 that they would have one by '99. Didn't happen. This is fear/warmongering, par excellence.

We've squandered our wealth and power while Russia and China continue(d) to build theirs up. We've set ourselves up for failure. This isn't about making the world safe for democracy or anything like that. This is all part of Western Civilization making one last dramatic play for power and relevance before it totally collapses. We had our chance to look inward towards renewal in the '90s and we blew it. Now, we've trapped ourselves into the role of Maj. Kong waving his cowboy hat as he rides the bomb.

I guess this is the part where we should, at least, enjoy the ride...


YEE-HAW!


 Originally Posted By: Prometheus
 Originally Posted By: iggy
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
I think it would be fully appropriate to use nukes on Iran, to thoroughly eliminate the nukes they are developing to use on us. Turn Tehran and the ayatollahs pushing this program into molten glass. Remove the head, and the beast advancing nukes will die, and the Iranians left will gladly surrender all nukes, and all future ambitions in that direction.


Let me guess, this is Christ-loving, Christian Dave saying all of this.



The whole nuclear Iran thing has been pushed by Israel for, at least, twenty years. Netanyahu said is '92 that they would have one by '99. Didn't happen. This is fear/warmongering, par excellence.

We've squandered our wealth and power while Russia and China continue(d) to build theirs up. We've set ourselves up for failure. This isn't about making the world safe for democracy or anything like that. This is all part of Western Civilization making one last dramatic play for power and relevance before it totally collapses. We had our chance to look inward towards renewal in the '90s and we blew it. Now, we've trapped ourselves into the role of Maj. Kong waving his cowboy hat as he rides the bomb.

I guess this is the part where we should, at least, enjoy the ride...


YEE-HAW!
Christ didn't tell the United States or any other nation that they don't have the right to defend themselves from murderous fanatics that threaten to kill us.


And I again point to Libya's nuclear program, that no one had a clue they were developing it until they surrendered it to U.N. inspectors. surrendered precisely because the U.S. invaded Iraq, and Ghaddafi/Libya didn't want to be next.

Likewise (as I already pointed out) head-in-the-sand ostriches like you said North Korea didn't have imminent nuclear weapons capability. Right up until they had it.

Asked and answered. Dumbass.
 Originally Posted By: Prometheus
 Originally Posted By: Prometheus
 Originally Posted By: iggy
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
I think it would be fully appropriate to use nukes on Iran, to thoroughly eliminate the nukes they are developing to use on us. Turn Tehran and the ayatollahs pushing this program into molten glass. Remove the head, and the beast advancing nukes will die, and the Iranians left will gladly surrender all nukes, and all future ambitions in that direction.


Let me guess, this is Christ-loving, Christian Dave saying all of this.



The whole nuclear Iran thing has been pushed by Israel for, at least, twenty years. Netanyahu said is '92 that they would have one by '99. Didn't happen. This is fear/warmongering, par excellence.

We've squandered our wealth and power while Russia and China continue(d) to build theirs up. We've set ourselves up for failure. This isn't about making the world safe for democracy or anything like that. This is all part of Western Civilization making one last dramatic play for power and relevance before it totally collapses. We had our chance to look inward towards renewal in the '90s and we blew it. Now, we've trapped ourselves into the role of Maj. Kong waving his cowboy hat as he rides the bomb.

I guess this is the part where we should, at least, enjoy the ride...


YEE-HAW!
 Originally Posted By: Traitor David, the Wonder Racist
Christ didn't tell the United States or any other nation that they don't have the right to defend themselves from murderous fanatics that threaten to kill us.


Wrong again, moron...

 Originally Posted By: THE BIBLE, Matthew 5:39
"But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."


 Originally Posted By: The Wonder Racist
UNLESS THEY'RE NOT WHITE!!! THEN YOU CAN KILL THEM! SO SAYETH MY GAWD!!


 Originally Posted By: Prometheus
 Originally Posted By: Traitor David, the Wonder Racist
Christ didn't tell the United States or any other nation that they don't have the right to defend themselves from murderous fanatics that threaten to kill us.


Wrong again, moron...

 Originally Posted By: THE BIBLE, Matthew 5:39
"But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."



I'll wager that your head would spin 360 degrees and you'd start making animal sounds and projectile vomiting if you ever actually entered a church.

i'll further wager that you know nothing about the Bible or its context, other than whipping something out at random to use for the sole purpose of slandering me.

Look up Matthew 8, verses 5-13


Jesus did NOT say to the Roman Centurion "You have to leave military service before I heal your paralyzed servant".
Instead he DID say "I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith" and "go home and it will be done as you believed it would."

Paul said similar things about Roman soldiers later in the New Testament, even of the Roman soldiers who imprisoned him. That they have a purpose in providing order that serves God on earth.

To say nothing of the many wars and conquests in the Old Testament, sanctioned by God in the formation and preservation of Israel. Kings David, Saul and Solomon were soldiers. As were many others praised in the Bible. The Bible says individuals should "turn the other cheek" and not be quick to anger. But nowhere does it blanket condemn military service.
And I've seen enough of your posts here to know that you're not a Christian anyway. You have contempt for the Bible, and is just one more set of words you viciously hack into chunks to fling at me, like the rest of your cake-like poo that passes for discussion.

just another weapon for slander. On Easter, of all occasions.


 Originally Posted By: Pro

 Originally Posted By: The Wonder Racist (as completely fabricated by Pro the Treasonous Slanderer
UNLESS THEY'RE NOT WHITE!!! THEN YOU CAN KILL THEM! SO SAYETH MY GAWD!!







Once again proving I haven't actually said racist things. so you have to say vile racist things and "script" me to say them, slanderously putting the words in my mouth.

Again proving what a miserable human being you are.

You, on the other hand...

 Originally Posted By: Prometheus, 4-22-2011


....have a tendency toward racial epithets.
And that's just par for the course for the racist insults and slanders you hack out every day here.




 Originally Posted By: Prometheus
 Originally Posted By: Traitor David, the Wonder Racist
Christ didn't tell the United States or any other nation that they don't have the right to defend themselves from murderous fanatics that threaten to kill us.


Wrong again, moron...

 Originally Posted By: THE BIBLE, Matthew 5:39
"But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."


 Originally Posted By: The Wonder Racist
UNLESS THEY'RE NOT WHITE!!! THEN YOU CAN KILL THEM! SO SAYETH MY GAWD!!







 Originally Posted By: Traitor David, the Wonder Racist
Uh...Uh...oh shit!!! Uh! G-SPIN!! THE COLOREDS DID IT!! SPICS!! SOOOORRROOOSSSSS!!!!! JESUS WAS WHITE!!!!!!!!!


WITNESS as David attempts to RE-WRITE the Word of God on Easter.

\:lol\: \:lol\: \:lol\: \:lol\: \:lol\: \:lol\: \:lol\:

Such a profound grasp on reality, he has. Such a respect for culture and wisdom. Such an honest, thoughtful commentary on the meaning behind the peaceful parables of Jesus Christ.

Oh. No, wait. Sorry. It's just the same old tired, racist hate-filled extremist rhetoric he's been indoctrinated with by the looney-toon-Rightwing propaganda terrorists. Nevermind. He's a fucking whackjob....
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
....nigger in the White House...


Dude, really, just because YOU think it's funny to call The President of the United States a racial slur doesn't mean anyone else does. Why do you feel the need to be such a racist pig, David? Why do you think Caucasians have any superiority whatsoever? Is it a southern thing? Did your parents or friends teach you to fear those with different skin color?

I'll really be glad when your generation has finally passed so that we can move closer to being free from racist scum like yourself. You sad little man.

But, really, STOP calling your President that word. That's an order, you hateful bitch.
An interview with a respected U.S. Col. Douglas A. MacGregor, that gives an interesting counter-perspective on the downside of invading Iran.



He says that neither President Obama(we already knew that) nor the officers in the Pentagon want an invasion of Iran. That even most of the Senate and Congress do not, but play for the cameras and the contributing lobbyists to their campaigns, who would turn on them if they did not have a pro-Israel aggressive stance toward Iran.
MacGregor predicts domestic attacks on the U.S. if Iran is invaded (and I guess Europe too) such as the mall attack we saw a week ago in Kenya, because they are incapable of doing more than minimal damage to U.S. air and naval forces if we invade Iran. So they would retaliate against "soft targets" that could not resist attack.

And even says that if Iran is attacked, they wouldn't need to bild nukes, in that situation "their allies" (presumably the Russians) would give them nukes.

In the concluding minutes, he also touches on similar issues of invading Syria. That they have one of the strongest and most disciplined militaries in the Middle East, and air defense that would be costly to bring down.

And he envisions, if left alone, Iran will naturally become more peaceful, more pro-Western and less extremist, in accordance with the will of its people, and the islamists will gradually lose power, just as he says the Chinese have become more capitalist and open to the West.




Although... that really doesn't address the thousands of centrifuges spinning all over Iran, generating weapons-grade plutonium.
Or Iranian missiles capable of delivering them.
Or Iran's rhetoric to "wipe Israel off the map" and vow to use nuclear weapons "in the cause of Islam".
Or Iran's test of a nuclear EMP that could black out North America.

As interesting as I found this interview, I'm aware that it is from RT (Russia Today, a 100% state-owned Russian media) that certainly wouldn't air views that undermine Russian interests, or those of their regional allies, Iran and Syria.
Pat Buchanan was just on the McLaughlin Group and applauded Obama and Kerry for their efforts in detente with Iraq


A very fiery and entertaining, if not insightful, exchange between congressmen and Michael Scheuer, whose credentials are clearly cited in the video.

I always liked this guy, despite that I have a far more pro-Israel stance than he does. He is normally much more reserved. Here he is unnecessarily combative. You could make the argument that he feels that strongly about the issues, or that he is being overly confrontational. Either way, I value his insights, as a highly qualified expert on Al Qaida and the Muslim world.
I also liked this video on the difficulty of making atomic weapons, detailing the exhausting process of turning uranium into weapons grade plutonium, going back to the history of making the U.S.'s first nukes in 1945, and the resources and manpower it took.




Like the military officer in my 9/27/2012 youtube post above, I view with some skepticism the alarmists that Iran is one year away from having material for nukes. But when Iran has gone from 600 up to 13,000 centrifuges during Obama's presidency, you have to think that maybe they're getting close.

Regardless, it's amazing that 70 years after the first nuclear weapons were created, with the new technology now available since then, nations still have difficulty getting together the resources to make weapons-grade nuclear material. As I understand it, every country on earth knows the mechanics of creating nuclear weapons. The only obstacle, for any nation, is getting together the physical materials to actually do it.



I'm just blown away at this article, and how it asserts that Israel, not Iran, is the true threat to the world.

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/11/25/336532/israeli-nukes-threatening-region-world/


A few tidbits:

 Quote:
It's as if the Zionists have walked into a time warp. For them, the clock has stopped; they are permanently stuck in an alternative reality in which the only hour is “three months to Iran-bomb.”

Netanyahu's ravings about Iran's nuclear energy program are hypocritical beyond belief. It is Israel, not Iran, that has built hundreds of nuclear weapons.

Israel, unlike Iran, has never signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT). And while nobody knows exactly how many nuclear weapons Israel has, the best guess is around 400 or so.

That is not counting miniature nuclear weapons, which Israel is credibly alleged to have used in false-flag terror attacks in Bali and elsewhere.

Israel is by far the most non-transparent nuclear power on earth. If there is one country that desperately needs to be overrun by UN weapons inspectors, it is Israel.


and

 Quote:
Israel is not just holding the Middle East hostage; it also openly threatens Europe. In 2003, Israeli military history professor Martin Van Crevel said Israel was poised to obliterate Europe's great cities with nuclear weapons: “We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets of our air force.”

Von Crevel, like other Israeli leaders, practically foamed at the mouth as he extolled Israel's “Samson Option” plan to destroy the world: “Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother ... We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that this will happen before Israel goes under.”

According to a leaked US Air Force study, the Israelis are even threatening their biggest benefactor, the USA, with nuclear weapons. The report states:

“One other purpose of Israeli nuclear weapons, not often stated, but obvious, is their 'use' on the United States. America does not want Israel's nuclear profile raised. They have been used in the past to ensure America does not desert Israel under increased Arab, or oil embargo, pressure and have forced the United States to support Israel diplomatically against the Soviet Union. Israel used their existence to guarantee a continuing supply of American conventional weapons, a policy likely to continue.”

And even more incredibly:

 Quote:
Some experts claim that Israel already HAS used nuclear weapons in an attack on the United States. They argue that Israeli miniature nuclear weapons are the most plausible explanation for the conversion of most of the World Trade Center Towers into very fine dust, leaving practically no rubble piles where two 110-story buildings had stood. Former NASA engineering executive Dwayne Deets argued, in his presentation at the Vancouver 9/11 Hearings in June, 2012, that evidence suggests that miniature nuclear weapons were probably used in the demolitions of the Twin Towers. Since WTC owner Larry Silverstein, a close friend of Netanyahu, confessed to one of the WTC demolitions, it stands to reason that the source of any mini-nukes used in the Twin Towers would have been the Israeli regime.



Love the well-sourced use of "some experts claim..."
some experts claim that i have a very big penis.
\:lol\:
Hal Lindsey, Feb 14, 2014:


Hal Lindsey, "The Modern Lie", a history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict




Iran has up to 200 agents on U.S. soil, waiting for orders, as disclosed by Rep. Peter King, among others. Iran's nuclear tests that indicate testing of an EMP attack on the U.S.
And Iran's obsession with obtaining nuclear weapons "to advance the cause of Islam".
I've seen quite a few reports recently of the danger to the U.S. power grid, and U.S. vulnerability to EMP weapons, or natural EMP that happens from a solar flare, about every 150 years.

http://liberallogic101.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/untitled3-500x500.png

 Quote:
"Iran isn't building ICBM's for Israel. They already have missiles that can reach us. They are building ICBM's to hit America."
--Bejamin Netanyahu



Yes, Iran already has missiles that can reach Israel, and even much of Europe. Iran wants nukes and missiles to carry them so they can unleash destruction on the entire world. And no doubt they are getting much of the technology they need toward that end from Russia and North Korea.

Would that our own president expressed as much concern as Netanyahu over this.

https://972mag.com/the-myth-of-the-osirak-bombing-and-the-march-to-iran/36911/

 Quote:
THE MYTH OF THE OSIRAK BOMBING, AND THE MARCH TO IRAN

By Larry Derfner, published March 2, 2012


Israeli security god Amos Yadlin’s NY Times op-ed yesterday is an example of why Obama should not believe Netanyahu’s case for war

The 1981 attack on Iraq’s Osirak nuclear reactor is believed by Israelis (and not just them) to have been a historic success, a precedent for the use of military force as the ultimate in arms control, most relevantly in Iran. Knowlegeable people know different.

Amos Yadlin, one of the pilots in that legendary attack, an insider’s insider of the Israeli military/intelligence establishment, wrote a very high-profile op-ed in the NYTimes yesterday repeating this BS that Israelis accept as fact. Yadlin, a former Air Force and military intelligence commander, now head of the country’s leading security think tank, certainly knows better. So either he was deliberately peddling this crock in the Times to sell a war on Iran, or he’s been brainwashed into believing it himself and doesn’t realize it.

He wrote that the Osirak bombing shows that Iran’s nuclear facilities can be destroyed not just for a few years, but permanently.
  • "After the Osirak attack and the destruction of the Syrian reactor in 2007, the Iraqi and Syrian nuclear programs were never fully resumed. This could be the outcome in Iran, too, if military action is followed by tough sanctions, stricter international inspections and an embargo on the sale of nuclear components to Tehran."


Like all Israelis, I believed that the Air Force had knocked out Saddam’s nuclear program for good in 1981, and that this had certainly proved a wise and brave decision. That was until 2007, when I was doing a story on Israel’s attack on the Syrian reactor, and I interviewed Yiftah Shapir, then and now the leading expert on missile warfare at the Institute of National Security Studies, whose current director is one Amos Yadlin.

After telling me that the reactor that Israel destroyed was not exactly on the verge of threatening Israel’s existence, that for the Syrians to fire a nuclear weapon at Israel would require “decades of work by thousands of technicians that Syria doesn’t have,” Shapir gave me the consensus informed view about the 1981 attack on Osirak: that it didn’t mark the end of Saddam Hussein’s nuclear program, but more like the beginning of it.

After that attack, said Shapir, Saddam cranked up Iraq’s nuclear production several times over, putting thousands of new technicians to work on the project. This was only discovered when the Americans questioned the Iraqi nuclear scientists they captured during the 1991 Gulf War. It was that war, and the subsequent takeover of Saddam’s WMD, that prevented Iraq from getting the bomb – not the 1981 israeli attack on Osirak. In fact, the bombing of Osirak escalated the Iraqi nuclear project such that if Saddam had not become power-mad and invaded Kuwait in 1990, bringing on the American invasion, he would have achieved nuclear capability by 1994, said Shapir, who directs the INSS’s annual, highly influential “Middle East Balance of Forces” report.

But you don’t have to interview Yiftah Shapir to learn this. Look up “Operation Opera,” the code name for the Osirak attack, in Wikipedia, and read what other knowledgeable people, including Bob Woodward and former U.S. Defense Secretary William Perry have to say:

  • "Israel claims that the attack impeded Iraq’s nuclear ambitions by at least ten years. In contrast, Dan Reiter has estimated that the attack may have accelerated Iraq’s nuclear weapons program, a view echoed by Richard K. Betts. Bob Woodward, in the book State of Denial, writes: “Israeli intelligence were convinced that their strike in 1981 on the Osirak nuclear reactor about 10 miles outside Baghdad had ended Saddam’s program. Instead [it initiated] covert funding for a nuclear program code-named ‘PC3’ involving 5.000 people testing and building ingredients for a nuclear bomb (…)”

    Similarly, the Iraqi nuclear scientist Imad Khadduri wrote in 2003 that the bombing of Osirak convinced the Iraqi leadership to initiate a full-fledged nuclear weapons program. United States Secretary of Defense William Perry stated in 1997 that Iraq refocused its nuclear weapons effort on producing highly enriched uranium after the raid. Its interest in acquiring plutonium as fissile material for weapons continued, but at a lower priority."


In short, the Israeli attack on the Iraqi nuclear reactor in 1981 actually backfired – and Israelis don’t know it. Nor does the op-ed editor of the NY Times, who allowed Yadlin to repeat the BS version.

Yadlin’s whole op-ed is a BS version of why the U.S. should bomb Iran, and that if the U.S. won’t do it, Israel will. He illustrates his case with the “success” of the air raid he took part in. And his op-ed seems to be a clear, concise preview of the argument for war that Netanyahu will be making to Obama in their meeting Monday.

Military intelligence, indeed.


This article actually makes a case for both sides, (1) air strikes on Iran, and (2) the blowback of airstrikes possibly accelerating their nuclear program. But ultimately sides with not doing strikes.

Both U.S. military higher-ups, and external intelligence experts, cite the 1981 bombing of Iraq's nuclear reactor by Israel as initially being touted as eliminating Iraq's nuclear program.
But in retrospect, it was seen as accelerating Iraq's program in their reacting to the air strike by hiring about 5,000 more nuclear experts. And that only Iraq invasion in 2003 prevented Iraq from obtaining nukes by 2004.

I still say that airstrikes on Iran would at least temporarily eliminate the threat and force them to virtually start over.

In the case of an airstrike on an impoverished North Korea, the airstrikes might eliminate their ability to ever rebuild it.




Still wondering why we haven't shredded Obama's agreement with Iran.

I guess just because 1) Trump can't do everything at once, North Korea being more immediate, and 2) possibly giving Iran the rope to hang themselves and the U.S. waiting to break the agreement when Iran clearly violates the terms.


Trump just went on television and in a brief speech announced he pulled the U.S. out of Obama/Kerry's 2015 Iran deal. For precisely the reason that it does not prevent Iran from getting nuclear weapons, and because Israel just a week ago laid out evidence that Iran has been cheating and continuing a nuclear program.

Trump left open the door to negotiating a new and better deal with Iran, but has wisely chosen not to continue a bad deal Obama left him with. It was a deal borne in deception by Obama and John Kerry, where there were many details that were hidden from the American people. That alone warrants shredding the agreement. Combined with the Ayatollah leading chants of "death to America" the same day it was signed. Gee, why would anyone be suspicious?


What Obama and Kerry didn't disclose to voters or the Senate and Congress before making the nuclear agreement with Iran:


Obama Withheld from Congress Another Secret Side Deal with the Iranians


 Quote:
Veteran Associated Press IAEA reporter George Jahn made news yesterday by revealing a secret agreement to the July 2015 nuclear deal with Iran (the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, or JCPOA). This agreement says that in January 2027, Tehran will be allowed to replace the primitive 5,060 uranium centrifuges it is allowed to operate while the nuclear agreement is in effect with more-advanced designs, even though other restrictions on Iranian uranium enrichment remain in place for 15 years.

I believe this is a significant development because it represents another secret JCPOA side deal that the Obama administration illegally withheld from Congress.

This agreement means that in only eleven years, Iran will be permitted to substantially increase its capability to produce nuclear fuel faster and in larger amounts. Since Iran is permitted to conduct R&D on advanced centrifuges while the JCPOA is in place — and can expand this effort after eight and a half years — it probably will be able to quickly construct and install these advanced centrifuges.

Jahn reported that although this undisclosed, confidential agreement is “an integral part” of the JCPOA, Iran will not be permitted to accumulate more than 300 kilograms of low-enriched uranium for 15 years. In light of recent reports that the Iranians are already cheating on the nuclear agreement, it is hard to believe that they will continue to abide by this restriction after they install more-advanced centrifuges.

Some media outlets responded to Jahn’s story as a major revelation. I agree but for different reasons from what many are laying out. It’s not news that Iran can begin enriching under the JCPOA with advanced centrifuges after ten years. I reported this in my new book, Obamabomb: A Dangerous and Growing National Security Threat. I’ve also explained that there is no limit on the number of uranium centrifuges Iran can operate after ten years.

What is news is that the Obama administration is a party to another secret side deal to the JCPOA that explicitly recognizes Iran’s plan to greatly expand its uranium-enrichment program. Other secret side deals include one that allows Iran to inspect itself on possible nuclear-weapons-related work and another that possibly weakened IAEA reporting on Iran’s nuclear program.

As with the previous secret agreements, withholding this deal from Congress probably violated the Corker-Cardin Act, which required the administration to provide all JCPOA documents — including side deals — to Congress before it voted on the deal last September.


According to Jahn’s report, “U.S. officials say members of Congress who expressed interest [in the document] were briefed on its substance.” Translation: The administration did not provide this side-deal document to Congress or mention it in committee briefings. Instead, the substance of this document was briefed only to members of Congress who asked about this issue.


So why haven’t we heard about this before now? Why didn’t representatives who were briefed on this secret side deal cry foul and demand that it be released before Congress voted on the nuclear deal last fall? I suspect the reason is that the administration briefed a handful of congressmen on the contents of this side deal without revealing the side deal’s existence. Also, this discovery forces us to ask: Are there more secret side deals to the CPOA that have not been made public or disclosed to Congress?

Jahn did not reveal a previously unknown flaw of the JCPOA. He revealed something more disturbing: another instance of the Obama administration’s deceiving Congress and the American people as part of its effort to ram through Obama’s deeply unpopular nuclear agreement with Iran — an agreement that is a dangerous and growing fraud.

Jahn’s report is more evidence of this and another reason the next president must tear up this agreement on his or her first day in office.
_______________________________

Fred Fleitz is senior vice president for policy and programs with the Center for Security Policy, a Washington, DC national security think tank. He held U.S. government national security





And:

HOUSE CANDIDATE HANDEL ON IRAN DEAL CASH USED FOR SUPPORT OF TERRORISM

 Quote:
In August 2016, many news organizations reported the delivery of $400 million of that $1.7 billion in cash. As part of that exchange, an unmarked cargo plane delivered the money after American officials were certain that three Americans held in Iran were on their way home.

It is not known how the remaining $1.3 billion made its way to Iran. Given the isolation of Iran’s banking system, it is possible that the payment was made in cash and flown to Iran, but neither we nor Handel’s staff could point to any report that said that definitely took place.


and

 Quote:
The idea that the Obama administration admitted that the money is being spent on terrorists comes from something then-Secretary of State John Kerry said in an interview.

Kerry told CNBC’s Squawk Box in January 2016 that Iran could spend the unfrozen assets however it wanted.

"I think that some of it will end up in the hands of the IRGC (Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps) or of other entities, some of which are labeled terrorists," Kerry said. "To some degree, I’m not going to sit here and tell you that every component of that can be prevented."

The IRGC, as Iran’s premier security institution, fields an army, navy and air force and "presides over a vast power structure with influence over almost every aspect of Iranian life," according to the Council on Foreign Relations think tank. In 2007, the U.S. Treasury Department designated the IRGC’s elite Quds Force a terrorist supporter for aiding the Taliban and other terrorist organizations.


Politifact through odd context rates the statements as "half true".

But an honest evaluation of these facts is that they are 100% true. Cash was given to an Iranian regime that both sponsors terrorism worldwide, and wages terrorism domestically on its own people. And Obama and Kerry gave them $1.7 billion, which Kerry plainly said he agreed to, that if likely would be spent on terrorism.

And despite Politifact's spin. It was not owed to Iran, it was owed to the Iranian government under the Shah that the Islamic regime violently overthrew. That debt was null and void when the Shah was overthrown. If the U.S. wanted to honor that debt, it has been owed for 39 years, and they could choose to pay it at any point when Iran has given up its terrorism and its nuclear ambitions.
Iran never has.
And the fact that Obama and Kerry did not disclose this $1.7 billion payment to the Senate, House or the American voters makes clear how dishonest the deal truly was.

Since neither the House or Senate were given the Constitutional requirement to verify the Iran Deal, it was never truly valid, and Trump has every right to end it.








I was recently looking at the Israeli bombing of the Iraq nuclear reactor that was part of Saddam Hussein's nuclear program, that eliminated an Iraq nuclear capability in June 1981:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Opera

A reminder that things could be a lot worse right now, if not for the decisive action of the Israelis. A week or so ago, I saw a documentary, i9nterviewing a U.S. military officer, that the $3 billion a year we give to Israel pays for itself many times over. And this is certainly an example.

Likewise, I'm still convinced that for whatever errors assessing Iraq's nuclear threat before the 2003 Iraq war, Quaddafi in Libya saw the U.S. invasion of Iraq as a firm stance against nuclear proliferation, and turned over his nuclear program to U.N. inspectors for dismantlement. A nuclear program that no one even knew he had!

So I think that alone justifies the Iraq war.
Despite Obama's fucking it up with a complete Iraq withdrawal in Dec 2011, that destabilized the region, caused the rise of ISIS, and almost lost the gains made there. If not for the decisive action of Trump in 2017-2018 that reversed Obama's losses. But regardless, because of these actions, nukes have not proliferated across the Middle East. North Korea and Iran still remain a potential threat in the wings, though. At least we have the right president for the job on these as well.



You're not being honest with saying it was Obama's withdrawal. That was negotiated under W and while critics spin it in hindsight, Iraq at that point had elections and was asking us to leave. Staying in force after we were asked to leave by the government that was set up under W would have been problematic.

Obama withdrew all U.S. forces, including intelligence/surveillance, in Dec 2011. If Obama didn't want that, he could have negotiated terms to keep U.S. forces there. Obama created the ISIS crisis by creating a vaccuum ands alienating Sunnis, that radicalized them and turned them to ISIS. There's no way Obama didn't see this happening, and he was certainly advised not to pull out.

Obama is a Cultural Marxist radical, and combined with his beliefs in Anti-Colonialism and Liberation Theology, he wanted to collapse U.S. power as much as possible. As further evidenced by his not supporting Mubarek, causing Egypt to briefly fall under an Iran-like radical islamic theocracy (no thanks to Obama, Egypt was saved from this by a coup of Egypt's military leadership). And Obama further collapsed U.S. power by triggering the "Arab Spring", collapsing U.S. diplomatic influence across North Africa and the entire Middle East. Israel was less trustful of Obama. And even Jordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia were less trustful that Obama could be relied on, so that for the first time they coordinated defense strategy with Israel, their former decades-long enemy. Saudi Arabia was so distrustful of Obama that when they staged an attack against Al Qaida in Libya, they did not give advance intelligence about it to the U.S.

And Israel had staged an attack early in the Obama administration from Azerbaidjhan airfields, but the traitors in Obama's White House leaked the plan to the Iranians, so that Israel had to abandon it.

So yes, it's Obama's fault, and part of a larger plan of undermining U.S. national interests, and our relationship with our allies. I could go even further on Obama's sabotage of our security relationships with Britain, Czech Republic, and Poland.



© RKMBs