Since, apparently,
certain posters don't want to talk about the subject of this thread, I guess it is up to me to put it back on track with an observation about Senator Biden:
Joe Biden Knows Jack
[National Review 07/17 09:35 AM]
Joe Biden, from Sunday's
Meet the Press, on dealing with Syria (emphasis mine):
Syria is essentially an isolated state. Syria can have its water cut off, figuratively speaking, tomorrow. But what are we doing? Are we sitting down with the Sunni powers and saying, "Look, let's get smart here, Jack, we have a common interest here"? But people doubt our judgment. They doubt our judgment and, as a consequence of that, we have very great difficulty getting anyone to think we have a strategy and, therefore, great difficulty getting them to join us.
Joe Biden on dealing with North Korea (emphasis mine):
Number three, we should be talking about how we're going to proceed here. John Kennedy—quoting a muscular Democrat—John Kennedy said we should never negotiate out of fear, we should never fear negotiation. We're so big and so strong, the idea that we're not sitting down having a come to the—an altar call with the leader of North Korea in a private meeting and saying, "Jack, let's tell you what the deal is here."
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r3x29yz4a said:
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Wonder Boy said:
Can you read?
The title of the topic is: "Joe Biden in 2008?"
G-man used a quote of mine from another thread where I compared Biden to Bush. He therefore made it a valid part of this thread.
If you looked more carefully, his including your mention of Bush was incidental.
What he was really commenting on was your superficial endorsement of Joseph Biden, based solely on his appearance, because Biden projects "dignity", rather than any substantive --or even slight-- understanding of what Biden represents.
As I've said repeatedly, I think Biden is a good candidate also. But I've based my opinion on what he's actually said, rather than just on the image he projects.
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r3x said:
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W B said:
All you can offer is grade-school profanity and personal insults.
The video you offer is all partisan fluff (with one exception, where Biden answered the Indian-Americans in every 7-11 comment in a CNN clip).
Its not partisan to show clips of Bush being an idiot. Its called showing the way it is.
The way it is to you, and to other Bush-hating liberals.
As seen through a heavily edited, soundbyted distorting mirror.
As I've said in previous topics, Rush Limbaugh ran similar clips of Clinton and his cabinet staff, every day on his show, during Clinton's presidency.
Clinton, Gore, Hilary, Donna Shalala, Madeline Albright, Robert Reich, and my absolute favorite, Jocelyn Elders.
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r3x said:
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W B said:
All you've offered is "Fuck you, asshole, fuckface, etc., etc." and "Bush is an idiot".
to G-man. I've been nicer to you.
Yeah, I guess you've been somewhat nicer to me.
Except for speculating on my "frilly panties in a wad". 
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r3x said:
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W B said
Regarding G-man posting to the Biden topic, I don't see any foul on his part.
and neither would I if you and he hadn't kept claiming this has nothing to do with Bush. My comment that he used was about Biden compared to Bush.
I already answered this earlier in the post. G-man was commenting on your lack of understanding of Biden beyond his "looking dignified", not on your comparison of Biden to Bush.
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r3x said:
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W B said:
When I posted a comment regarding John McCain as a candidate, I similarly resurrected the McCain topic, rather begin or add to a more generic 2008 election topic.
well if you actually read the threads...
I do read the topics before I respond. I even looked at all your anti-Bush propaganda soundbytes.
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r3x said
, you'd see the liberals here generally offer real debate.
I suppose you exemplify that debating skill ?
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r3x said:
you and g-man generally rehash the same shit without reading what was said.
If by "re-hashing" you mean posting new links with new information, and usually writing out a few lines of my own opinion of what it signifies, then yeah, I guess that qualifies as "the same shit".
But I definitely read and consider what's been said, even when I disagree. You could learn a lot from the way M E M and Magicjay post. I often don't agree with them, but they offer a valid opposing counter-perspective.
Despite the sneering contempt and namecalling you so often indulge in, I still think you're an articulate kid, and that you're certainly capable of a better quality of debate, if you really tried.
The clips I offer of Biden are unsoundbyted. If you want a better idea of his position on international issues, they're very much worth watching.
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r3x29yz4a said:
are we seeing a problem here, or are you a fucking retard?
i mean that seriously. if you are retarded, we can help you.
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Wonder Boy said:
If you looked more carefully, his including your mention of Bush was incidental.
What he was really commenting on was your superficial endorsement of Joseph Biden, based solely on his appearance, because Biden projects "dignity", rather than any substantive --or even slight-- understanding of what Biden represents.
you do realize I said he was smart first and foremost? No one seems to be questioning that. And no one seems to actually challenge that he's more dignified than Bush.
Why is it superficial to suggest someone for president who is smarter and more dignified than the current guy?
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As I've said repeatedly, I think Biden is a good candidate also. But I've based my opinion on what he's actually said, rather than just on the image he projects.
seriously, go back and read the quote that started this all. The first thing I said was that he was smart.
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The way it is to you, and to other Bush-hating liberals.
As seen through a heavily edited, soundbyted distorting mirror.
not heavily edited. its not cut together snippets to misquote him. Its a collection of him doing foolish acts. And there's A LOT of those.
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As I've said in previous topics, Rush Limbaugh ran similar clips of Clinton and his cabinet staff, every day on his show, during Clinton's presidency.
Clinton, Gore, Hilary, Donna Shalala, Madeline Albright, Robert Reich, and my absolute favorite, Jocelyn Elders.
Clinton was kind of goofy. Rush Limbaugh does have a history of editing stuff though. The videos I showed didn't alter anything, they just compiled it.
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Yeah, I guess you've been somewhat nicer to me.
Except for speculating on my "frilly panties in a wad".
frilly panties show class.
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I already answered this earlier in the post. G-man was commenting on your lack of understanding of Biden beyond his "looking dignified", not on your comparison of Biden to Bush.
again, for the hundreth time, my main point was that he was smart. I then added "air of dignity" and compared that with Bush. This of course was not said on a Biden thread but a thread about who you'd like to see run in 2008. Therefore i was saying Biden based on brains and running power.
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I do read the topics before I respond. I even looked at all your anti-Bush propaganda soundbytes.
Its not really propaganda. It was true stuff in that he said and did it, and it was relevant in that the conversation was about Bush's "dignity" and "intellect." No one seems to be debating Biden's smarts, and I think the Indian comment really doesn't hurt his dignity so much as its a minor faux pas that's the exception rather than the rule.
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I suppose you exemplify that debating skill ?
no. don't get me wrong, i have no delusions that i'm a master debater. I get irritated with you folks too easily and have littler patience for the BS. But the other liberal posters here are very good about presenting their cases, and G-man still tries to manipulate or ignore their valid points.
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If by "re-hashing" you mean posting new links with new information, and usually writing out a few lines of my own opinion of what it signifies, then yeah, I guess that qualifies as "the same shit".
But I definitely read and consider what's been said, even when I disagree. You could learn a lot from the way M E M and Magicjay post. I often don't agree with them, but they offer a valid opposing counter-perspective.
Again, I get bored and irritated by the likes of G-man too easily and do the insults just because i know it irks him to have it here where he can't edit it.
Jay and MEM do a far better job than I at being civil and patient.
I actually can respect you and WBAM, because you guys put sincere thought into your posts. Pariah is hate-filled and nasty, G-man does have a history of manipulating topics to make himself look better.
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Despite the sneering contempt and namecalling you so often indulge in, I still think you're an articulate kid, and that you're certainly capable of a better quality of debate, if you really tried.
Kid? I'm 47!
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The clips I offer of Biden are unsoundbyted. If you want a better idea of his position on international issues, they're very much worth watching.
Which is one definite plus for Biden. The recent microphone mistake with Bush had a bit of dialogue that really offended me. Where he said that he didn't want to talk too long because everyone else talks too long. I contrast that with Biden's appearance on Bill Maher's show where he was asked about Iraq and went into a good 3-4 minute summary of the situation and the history.
I feel that the president should be smart, that he should speak at an intelligent level and take his time in presenting the issues.
I think what I hate most about Bush is his simplifying everything. Saying terrorists "hate us for our freedom" doesn't help anything, tracing back the conflict 50 years and analyzing it is a better course.
I think politics in general has been too dumbed down lately. I've always enjoyed listening to the Nixon/Kennedy debates of 1960. They both spoke with such intelligence that, having been born 20 years after the issues they were talking about, i was able to understand it all because they presented all the information.
But the Bush/Gore and Bush/Kerry debates were mean and spiteful and full of short t-shirt slogans.
And I think that's a disgrace. I want a smart president, which I why I put Biden's name on that thread.
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r3x29yz4a said:
I've been impressed with Joe Biden recently. I haven't had the chance to look at his record, but the man is smart and has an air of dignity to him
Biden recently attended a rotary luncheon where he bragged about his state's pro-slavery history:
Delaware, he noted, was a “slave state that fought beside the North. That’s only because we couldn’t figure out how to get to the South. There were a couple of states in the way.”
What's with this guy? Racist jokes about Indians and now bragging about Delaware's support for slavey? And he thinks he has a shot at the Democratic nomination?
White Democrats don't care about Blacks....they just use them to get elected. I would vote for someone like Obama though if I got to know more about where he stood on taxes.
I think Obama's part Muslim, PJP.
I hadn't heard anything like that and I lived in Illinois for a long while. He's not that bad a choice as far as I know.
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the G-man said:...
Delaware, he noted, was a “slave state that fought beside the North. That’s only because we couldn’t figure out how to get to the South. There were a couple of states in the way.”
What's with this guy? Racist jokes about Indians and now bragging about Delaware's support for slavey? And he thinks he has a shot at the Democratic nomination?
That's a pretty obvious misrepresentation of the story you linked to G-man. For those that are to lazy to check it out Biden entertained & impressed a large group described as Quote:
...predominantly Republican.
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This Yankee senator quickly disarmed his conservative audience, many of whom came expecting partisan attacks on President Bush and Republicans in general.
It didn’t happen. As they say at Fox News, the address was “fair and balanced.”
It was actually weird reading how much the Republicans liked him!
Putting aside the question of how the reporter knew the audience was "predominently republican" (Rotary isn't a political organization and I don't think she conducted a poll), I find it interesting that you seem to be defending Biden's remarks by saying it was okay simply because the audience was amused by them.
That would be a little like saying "its okay he called someone a nigger...the audience was made up of KKK members."
G-man's source behind his accusations... Quote:
Biden charms local GOP
By LEE BANDY
lbandy@thestate.com
It was unlike most Columbia Rotary Club luncheons.
The speaker was U.S. Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware, a likely candidate for the 2008 Democratic presidential nomination.
The chief topic: the Iraq war.
The audience: predominantly Republican.
Biden humorously took note of that in his opening remarks.
“I want to thank you all for allowing me a trip here to speak to only Republicans. It’s like my hometown. I just won every district in my state except the one I live in,” he quipped.
The crowd howled.
The senator then pounced on a member’s announcement that the club would hold its annual Christmas party at the state Department of Archives and History where members could view the original copy of the state’s Articles of Secession.
Biden asked, “Where else could I go to a Rotary Club where (for a) Christmas party the highlight is looking at the Articles?”
Biden was on a roll.
Delaware, he noted, was a “slave state that fought beside the North. That’s only because we couldn’t figure out how to get to the South. There were a couple of states in the way.”
The crowd loved it.
This Yankee senator quickly disarmed his conservative audience, many of whom came expecting partisan attacks on President Bush and Republicans in general.
It didn’t happen. As they say at Fox News, the address was “fair and balanced.”
Biden devoted much of his speech to the war in Iraq.
“America needs, and I need, for the Republican Party to get back up,” he said.
“There’s not a single problem out there that cannot be solved without a bipartisan coalition,” said Biden, the incoming chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
He held the audience sway for more than an hour, roaming the floor like an evangelist.
Members said afterward they had never seen anything like it.
“I’ve been a member of this club for 31 years,” said Jim Covington, a media specialist. “I’ve never seen so many Republicans staying behind.”
Retired Army Gen. John Blount said he was impressed, and “I’m a Republican.”
“I could vote for him,” commented Gayle Averyt, a retired insurance executive and major contributor to the GOP.
“The mid-term election may have been a rejection of the policies of this administration,” Biden said. “But it was not an embrace of the Democratic program or the Democratic Party. We’re in a state of flux right now and have a lot of problems that need to be resolved.”
Biden says he doesn’t know any Republican who wants to run for re-election in 2008 with Iraq hanging around his neck.
Biden also says the Democrats don’t want to assume the presidency saddled with a war and have to be responsible for pulling the plug.
“We can choose to hang together or choose to hang separately on Iraq. There is every incentive for us to hang together,” he added.
Crawford Clarkson, a retired account executive, said Biden’s speech “was outstanding. He had something to say. Right now, I would say he’s the best the Democrats have to offer in 2008.”
The first question after the speech was direct.
“Senator, will you please do me a favor and run for president?” pleaded Debbie Yoho with the Greater Columbia Literacy Council.
The Rotary discourages discussion of politics at its meetings.
Contacted later, Yoho said she was “blown away” by Biden’s speech. “I think he is the man of the hour. ... He’s mesmerizing.”
The State
What we have here is a rave review of Biden from several Republicans. I'm unsure how anyone could sincerely believe Biden was trying to brag about pro-slavery?
But buried in the middle of the article: Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Biden asked, “Where else could I go to a Rotary Club where (for a) Christmas party the highlight is looking at the Articles (of Secession)?”
Biden was on a roll.
Delaware, he noted, was a “slave state that fought beside the North. That’s only because we couldn’t figure out how to get to the South. There were a couple of states in the way.”
The crowd loved it.
So, Biden, to "charm" his South Carolina audience, jokes about much fun it is to read the Articles of Secession and makes sure to let his audience know that his home state was pro-slavery.
Maybe his audience laughed, but is that really your new test as to when laughing about slavery is okay?
Or is this another case of MEM giving a democrat a pass for everything?
So you think Biden is going for the KKK vote If I thought there was something to Biden's comments I would have no problem agreeing with you G-man. I'm not really quick to jump on something like that when it's even a GOPer though. For example when Sen Allen made the Macaca(?) remark. Silly stuff IMHO & when you made a big deal about that... 
I think this is less a George Allen Maccaca moment and more a Trent Lott "Strom Thurmond" moment.
In both cases you have a Senator (Biden, Lott) trying to be witty to an audience of rednekcs and, in both cases, you have a Senator ending up saying something nostalgic about the pre-civil rights era south. But, where Lott got blasted, Biden gets a pass. Which I think is a little unfair.
I also think Biden is developing a habit of this sort of stuff, given his earlier comments about the Indians and 7-11 that ill serves him.
Lott wasn't joking though, Biden was.
Why would you call Biden's audience "rednecks" btw? I didn't get that impression from the article.
BIDEN TIME: NEW DEM IN RACEDemocratic Sen. Joe Biden, who has made no secret of his plans to run for president in 2008, will make it official next Wednesday.
He is regarded as a longshot in the presidential contest, but is a leading Dem spokesman on foreign affairs.
Biden was a candidate for the 1988 Democratic presidential nomination, but withdrew after it was learned he had plagiarized passages in his speeches.
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r3x29yz4a aka Hungus aka Adler said:
I've been impressed with Joe Biden recently. I haven't had the chance to look at his record, but the man is smart and has an air of dignity to him
Biden on Barack Hussein Obama:
you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean
As writer Philip Arthur Moore has noted:
For those of you who do not quite understand what is so problematic about the word “articulate” being used on Barack Obama, it would do you well to talk to a group of educated black Americans to understand how this seemingly harmless compliment can be perceived as something entirely different than a positive characterization of one’s oratory abilities.
Or, you can always enter in the phrase “you speak so well” +black into a Google search query to see what I’m talking about.
Biden seems to have a real "foot in the mouth" problem when it comes to race and ethnicity.
Biden: What I Meant Was ...
Delaware Sen. Joe Biden said he meant no harm nor racist foul when he cracked wise about Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, one of several fellow Democrats seeking the party's 2008 presidential nomination.
"I believe I was quoted accurately, but they weren't meant to be shots," Biden said of a story [in which] he is quoted saying of Obama: “I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean.."
Asked whether he wanted to throw down the gauntlet and respond to Biden's quoted remarks, Obama refused to be drawn into the fight.
"I am not going parse his words that carefully. ... You'd have to ask Senator Biden what he was thinking," Obama said.
In an afternoon conference call to discuss his presidency, Biden said he's sure the African-American community isn't taking offense at his description of Obama as "articulate," a no-no that can be traced back at least to the 1996 effort to draft Colin Powell for a run for the president. At the time, comedian Chris Rock slammed the description of Powell as articulate in a riotous stand-up routine that forever put the expression in the trash bin of backhanded compliments.
Thank goodness for that Biden "air of dignity". Otherwise who knows what embarrasing thing he might say next.
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the G-man said:
....
Thank goodness for that Biden "air of dignity". Otherwise who knows what embarrasing thing me might say next.
So true!
heh....that's pretty funny.
The ironic thing is, Biden's criticism of Hillary Clinton and John Edwards is pretty much right on target. But the only thing anyone will remember is the poorly-worded bit about Obama.
New York Daily NewsBack-pedaling at warp speed after a bumbling comment about black politicians, Democratic presidential hopeful Sen. Joe Biden made an appearance yesterday on the Rev. Al Sharpton's radio show, lavishing Sharpton with praise and even throwing in an "I love ya, Al" for good measure.
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Matter-eater Man said:
Biden has a solid record on cival rights. If you want to play the political game of using a bad soundbite to trash somebodies reputation, your really the one who needs to be judged as coming up short.
You seem to imply, as is your wont, that Biden should get a pass because he's a liberal democrat.
Then, how do you explain that many democrats, including Biden himself seem to recognize that this was a racial faux pas?
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the G-man said:
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Matter-eater Man said:
Biden has a solid record on cival rights. If you want to play the political game of using a bad soundbite to trash somebodies reputation, your really the one who needs to be judged as coming up short.
You seem to imply, as is your wont, that Biden should get a pass because he's a liberal democrat.
Then, how do you explain that many democrats, including Biden himself seem to recognize that this was a racial faux pas?
No, I think he needed to apolgize for saying what he said. Just pointing out that your concentrating on that quote while ignoring his record to try to character assasinate him as is your wont because he's a liberal democrat.
Hey, I've praised Biden at times too: Quote:
the G-man said:
Biden's criticism of Hillary Clinton and John Edwards is pretty much right on target.
I also gave him credit for some decent ideas about Iraq.
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the G-man said:
Hey, I've praised Biden at times too:
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the G-man said:
Biden's criticism of Hillary Clinton and John Edwards is pretty much right on target.
I also gave him credit for some decent ideas about Iraq.
Yes that was very big of you praising somebody for their criticism of Hillary 
The difference between us I think is your willing to work a bad line to make Biden look racist despite his record. I bring up his record & I'm dismissed as giving him a pass.
I guess to contrast the difference between us, I would point out that I wasn't working the whole Bush doesn't care about black people angle during Katrina or the "maccaca" incident that ended up giving the Dems majority control over the senate.
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the G-man said:
I also gave him credit for some decent ideas about Iraq.
& I said he needed to apologize.
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Matter-eater Man said:
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the G-man said:
Hey, I've praised Biden at times too:
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the G-man said:
Biden's criticism of Hillary Clinton and John Edwards is pretty much right on target.
I also gave him credit for some decent ideas about Iraq.
Yes that was very big of you praising somebody for their criticism of Hillary
The difference between us I think is your willing to work a bad line to make Biden look racist despite his record. I bring up his record & I'm dismissed as giving him a pass.
I guess to contrast the difference between us, I would point out that I wasn't working the whole Bush doesn't care about black people angle during Katrina or the "maccaca" incident that ended up giving the Dems majority control over the senate.
I never knew what the fuss was about the macarena.....I always thought it was a catchy tune.
I guess the guy was more of an "electric slide" person?
In a letter to the editor of the New York Times, Alan Hoffman, chief of staff for Sen. Joe Biden, defends his boss's characterization of Sen. Barack Obama as "articulate." Turns out Biden says that about a lot of democrats: In "The Racial Politics of Speaking Well" (Week in Review, Feb. 4), about Senator Joe Biden's use of the word "articulate" to describe Senator Barack Obama, Lynette Clemetson suggests the following rule: "Do not use it as the primary attribute of note for a black person if you would not use it for a similarly talented, skilled or eloquent white person."
During the recent hearings on Iraq that Senator Biden presided over as chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, he referred to the following people as "articulate":
Leslie H. Gelb
Edward N. Luttwak
Lawrence J. Korb
Robert Malley
Senator Lisa Murkowski
Peter W. Galbraith
Frederick W. Kagan
Ted Galen Carpenter
Gen. Jack Keane
Senator Edward M. Kennedy
While Senator Biden has expressed his regret that anyone was offended by his words, we wanted to make it clear that his reference to Senator Obama was sincerely intended as a compliment. Of course, this may be the first time in years anyone referred to Ted Kennedy as "articulate."
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the G-man said:
Of course, this may be the first time in years anyone referred to Ted Kennedy as "articulate."
Chappaticulate! 
On PBS' Friday broadcast of Washington Week in Review (Feb 9, 2007), the show's moderator had asked the previous week, "What was he thinking?", regarding Biden's Obama-praising "Bright, articulate... clean..." remark.
One viewer's response to the question:
I think it is stunningly obvious what he was thinking. He was thinking he'd pay Senator Obama a compliment. It was an off-the-cuff remark, not scrutinized by a political advisor, nor presented to a focus group. In other words, the kind of remark we all complain politicians should make more often.
Jim, Sun City, CA
That's pretty much how I feel about it.
I don't feel Biden said anything wrong. Biden's remark was goofily worded, but it was still a compliment. It's only interpretation, digging for hidden subtext meanings, that it can be made negative.
And would that all politicians gave us that kind of candid, unscripted honesty.
I kid you not: Speaking at Al Sharpton's National Action Network event in New York, Biden said President Bush, Newt Gingrich and Karl Rove are responsible for what he called "the politics of polarization."
Biden said Republicans have created an environment that brings bad things to the United States.
"I would argue, since 1994 with the Gingrich revolution, just take a look at Iraq, Venezuela, Katrina, what's gone down at Virginia Tech, Darfur, Imus. Take a look. This didn't happen accidentally, all these things," he said. I'm surprised Joe "Air of Dignity" Biden didn't find time to work in bird flu, the Sumatra-Andaman earthquake and tsunami, some 9/11 "truth," and John Edward's $400 haircuts in there as well. Perhaps he's saving those for a rainy day
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Karl Adler Hungus said:
I've been impressed with Joe Biden recently. I haven't had the chance to look at his record, but the man is smart and has an air of dignity to him (a marked change from Dubya).
Biden: We'll Shove Bush Veto Down His Throat
White House hopeful Sen. Joseph Biden recently told a supporter that after President Bush vetoes the Iraq war funding legislation, "we're going to shove it down his throat."
Shaking hands with supporters at Rep. James Clyburn's annual fish fry on Friday, Biden, D-Del., responded to a guest's question about what Democrats will do after Bush vetoes the bill.
"When he vetoes the bill, what’s going to be the next version of the bill that you will send him?" the man asks.
Biden responds: "The idea that we're not building new Humvees with the V-shaped things is just crap. Kids are dying that don't have to die. Second thing is, we're going to shove it down his throat."
The Associated Press is reporting that Biden has dropped out.
Not Biden his time, is he?
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