the candidate who's running on change picked the old white man and the other guy choose a woman for VP. Makes no sense at all.

Nice to see McCain shake things up with this pick. Pawlenty wouldn't have hurt him but I don't think he would have helped much either.

Sorry....I have a TV at work!

She also successfully took on the oil industry, leading to a tax increase on oil company profits that now has the state's treasury swelling.

rex has a tv at not work!

what will the liberal spin be, she is a confused pawn of big oil?

what will the liberal spin be, she is a confused pawn of big oil?

And all the people who accused me of supporting Obama because I'm black are going to suddenly start looking the other way when the women's vote starts swinging to the right. People on this board included. I guarantee it.

As an Obama fan, though, I have to say I think the reactions I've seen have been pretty funny. The same people who have said over and over again that Obama is too inexperienced are out there saying that Palin is a great pick, because she's a new, fresh face.

And all the people who accused me of supporting Obama because I'm black are going to suddenly start looking the other way when the women's vote starts swinging to the right. People on this board included. I guarantee it.

I haven't been to CNN or any other liberally-biased news source, yet. Seems every article online is written by a conservative.

As an Obama fan, though, I have to say I think the reactions I've seen have been pretty funny. The same people who have said over and over again that Obama is too inexperienced are out there saying that Palin is a great pick, because she's a new, fresh face. Her "lack of experience" isn't a problem, even though she has served zero time in national government and has spent much less time in leadership. She has no experience overseas.

Honestly, having read up on her recently (because I had no idea who she was before this) Palin seems like a good person and perhaps even a good candidate, but the GOP has lost all the hits it can make against Obama (the ones based on reality and non-self serving issues anyway). And the only thing supporters have been able to say good about her is that she's young, very different from what we're used to, and hot.

The RNC will be very interesting.

Funny thing is how some reactions so far to Palin,complain about the lack of experience she has and is only a heartbeat away from being the president.Amusing because how is that any worse than a person running for the presidency with lack of experience?

all i can say is this must be a good pick to get you wetting your pants like this.

Apparently, the Democrat Party lives in some sort of Bizarro World where the boss is supposed to be the newcomer and the number two the one with all the experience.

Also to give Jason a little lesson in the Presidency, the President chooses the advisers, cabinet. So if inexperinced Obama say picks Bill Ayers as secretary of Defense, he will be Biden's Sec if something happens to Barack. But if John McCain picks Colin Powell he would be Palin's sec of defense. Now the names are examples but the picks will be based on the judgments of the President not the VP.

Former Republican presidential candidate and Tennessee Sen. Fred Thompson: “I am absolutely delighted by this selection. Once again, John McCain has shown that he is an independent thinker who paints in bold strokes. Sarah Palin is a conservative reformer with executive experience who will bring a breath of fresh air to Washington. She will be an ideal running mate for John McCain, and will make a major contribution to our country’s future.”

Former Republican presidential candidate and Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee: “Sarah Palin is a pleasant surprise for those of us who had hoped that Senator McCain would pick a principled and authentic conservative pro-life leader. Sarah Palin is both principled and authentic. As a Governor, she also brings an important balance of understanding of the critical domestic issues that is needed and that the Democrats have ignored with their ticket. Governor Palin is smart, authentic, tough, and a dynamic choice that will remind women that they may not be welcome on the Democrats ticket, but they have a place with Republicans.”

Former Republican presidential candidate and Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney: “Governor Palin’s story is one that all Americans will find inspiring. She’s a Washington outsider with a commitment to the conservative principles that will make our nation stronger. I look forward to campaigning for Senator McCain, Governor Palin and Republicans all across the country.”

Democratic nominees Barack Obama and Joe Biden (joint statement): “We send our congratulations to Governor Palin and her family on her designation as the Republican nominee for vice president. Her selection is yet another encouraging sign that all barriers are falling in our politics and while we obviously have differences over how to best lead this country forward, Governor Palin is an admirable person and will add a compelling new voice to this campaign.”

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi: “The selection of a vice presidential candidate is one of the most significant and telling decisions a presidential candidate can make. John McCain’s selection of Sarah Palin raises serious questions about his judgment. Why, when the country is fighting two wars, facing an uncertain economy and an energy crisis, did Senator McCain make the choice that he did? Why, with so many other qualified women and men in his party, did John McCain choose Sarah Palin? Sarah Palin is not the right choice. She shares John McCain’s commitment to overturning Roe v. Wade and continuing George Bush’s failed economic policies. John McCain and Sarah Palin will not bring the American people the New Direction they need.”

New York Democratic Sen. Charles Schumer: “While Palin is a fine person, her lack of experience makes the thought of her assuming the presidency troubling. I particularly look forward to the Biden-Palin debate in Missouri.”

Barack Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton: “Today, John McCain put the former mayor of a town of 9,000 with zero foreign policy experience a heartbeat away from the presidency. Governor Palin shares John McCain’s commitment to overturning Roe v. Wade, the agenda of Big Oil and continuing George Bush’s failed economic policies — that’s not the change we need, it’s just more of the same.”

Sen. Lisa Murkowski, R-Alaska: “John McCain has taken a bold step today in choosing Gov. Sarah Palin as his vice presidential running mate. Gov. Palin has risen to every challenge shes faced, and her choice is historic for Alaska and for the women of America. Sarah brings a great deal of excitement to the campaign and she makes Alaskans proud. Gov. Palin understands and is a leader on the most crucial issue facing our nation today — energy.

“Her candidacy will highlight Alaska’s critical role as a state that can help meet our nation’s energy needs through domestic oil and gas exploration and development. Sarah has built an impressive record as Governor of Alaska, and she will bring a valuable outside-the-beltway perspective to John McCain’s candidacy. Gov. Palin is smart, energetic and her choice as the Republican vice presidential candidate represents a new direction in the race for the White House.”

Human Rights Campaign President Joe Solmonese: “Today, presumptive Republican Presidential nominee Senator John McCain announced he has chosen first term Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as his choice to be his Vice Presidential running mate. Although only holding an executive, state-wide office for less than two years, Gov. Palin has already shown that she is a fierce opponent of equality.

“America may not know much about Sarah Palin, but based on what our community has seen of her, we know enough,” said Human Rights Campaign President Joe Solmonese. “Sarah Palin not only supported the 1998 Alaska constitutional amendment banning marriage equality but, in her less than two years as Governor, even expressed the extreme position of supporting stripping away domestic partner benefits for state workers. When you can’t even support giving our community the rights to health insurance and pension benefits, it’s a frightening window into where she stands on equality.”

House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio: “John McCain made an historic choice in naming Alaska Governor Sarah Palin, a popular and proven reformer with a record of accomplishment and real executive experience, as his running mate. In choosing Governor Palin, McCain has put Washington on notice — he is serious about shaking up the status quo and leading a movement for reform on behalf of families and small businesses. And Im pleased he made the announcement in my home state of Ohio.

“Palin is a strong advocate for taxpayers, using her veto to cut wasteful spending and put a stop to the infamous Bridge to Nowhere. And she is an important ally for Americans demanding action on an All of the Above energy reform strategy to help lower fuel costs. While Barack Obama chose a running mate who shares his opposition to increasing the supply of American energy to help bring down gas prices, McCain and Palin will lead the fight to liberate the United States from its dangerous dependence on foreign oil.

“Last month I had the pleasure of meeting Governor Palin while in Alaska on our American Energy Tour, and I can attest that she will be a strong agent of change in Washington. The McCain-Palin ticket has the experience to lead the effort to fix a broken Washington. This is the ticket that is ready to lead.”

Americans United for Life Action President and CEO Dr. Charmaine Yoest: “With this bold and inspired selection, Sen. McCain has verified his stated commitment to assembling a truly pro-life administration. The Republican ticket stands in stark contrast to the stridently pro-abortion ticket put forth by the Democratic Party. You can be sure the vice presidential selections will have far-reaching ramifications in this race.”

Executive Director of MoveOn.org Eli Pariser: “On his 72nd birthday, Senator McCain has chosen a VP based on her political currency rather than her ability to lead our country in a crisis. If John McCain wins in November, he’ll be the oldest president in U.S. history, and Sarah Palin would be a heartbeat away from being our commander in chief. It’s not only fair, but critical in this case, to ask if she’s up for the job of commander in chief. We just can’t afford a gamble like this with our future.”

And?

Dude please, I know your upset but youve got to read the whole message, including the one it's a reply to. Calm down, Obama still has a chance.

Bill Clinton has just commented on John McCains VP pick:

Oh, I see. You're doing it again.

'K.

Palin has a track record of taking on big oil and winning, where is MoveOn.org's talking points about this? Obama and Biden talk about it she has done it, that is experience.

But, seriously, Jason: Palin is no less qualified to be President than Obama (may be more so given her executive experience) and, unlike Obama she isn't running for the top slot.

So, as BSAMS pointed out, it's pretty foolish for people to complain about her experience if they're backing Obama.

If Palin were at the top of the GOP ticket you might have a point, but she isn't.

Palin has a track record of taking on big oil and winning, where is MoveOn.org's talking points about this? Obama and Biden talk about it she has done it, that is experience.

the candidate who's running on change picked the old white man and the other guy choose a woman for VP. Makes no sense at all.

it does make sense for both of them. Obama is already the first black nominee, he picked Biden to add experience and blue collar cred. Mccain is an old white guy so he picked a woman to add the diversity angle to his campaign and probably also as an extra lure to the Hillary supporters who wanted a woman to be elected.

this is what google image gave me for her. Is this really the VP nominee?
This is "change you can jerk off to."

Anyone who wanted hillary elected is too retarded to vote republican.

No, the party who didn't elect the tards that ran against him.

I'm pretty happy! This has energized me as far as being excited for a McCain Presidency.

And McCain supports big oil...big time. So if G-man's point is taken, than MoveOn.org doesn't need a talking point.

What happened to your love affair with moderate or middle man politicians? Palin seems too right of center for you to identify with

This is exactly what I didn't want to hear from other people supporting my (reluctant) candidate; "There's a woman on McCain's ticket! This is cooler than sliced bread!"

Now I'm gonna be standing in the ballot line with a bunch of feminists who are only voting Conservative because there's a woman on the ticket. At least if it were Condi, I'd know feminists hate her too much to go for her as a woman, but with Palin coming out of left...Er, right field as a soccer mom, McCain's become all r0x0r and shit.

And then, of course, there's going to be a whole bunch of fucktards voting for boobs.

Fuck this! I hate myself even more for voting for this man now.

I haven't been to CNN or any other liberally-biased news source, yet. Seems every article online is written by a conservative.

As an Obama fan, though, I have to say I think the reactions I've seen have been pretty funny. The same people who have said over and over again that Obama is too inexperienced are out there saying that Palin is a great pick, because she's a new, fresh face. Her "lack of experience" isn't a problem, even though she has served zero time in national government and has spent much less time in leadership. She has no experience overseas.

Honestly, having read up on her recently (because I had no idea who she was before this) Palin seems like a good person and perhaps even a good candidate, but the GOP has lost all the hits it can make against Obama (the ones based on reality and non-self serving issues anyway). And the only thing supporters have been able to say good about her is that she's young, very different from what we're used to, and hot.

The RNC will be very interesting.

do you read the board or just make blind accusations? i wrote several posts in the VP thread about how this will grab women voters, I believe quite a few of us have said that.

Whoa there! Relax. No need to get all...emotional.

Considering Obama went for Biden, the one lauded for experience, I'd say McCain going for Palin was a tit for tat that made their mutual experience meters reciprocal.

It was good strategic move from both a feminist angle and a experience angle I'd say..

Considering Obama went for Biden, the one lauded for experience, I'd say McCain going for Palin was a tit for tat that made their mutual experience meters reciprocal.

Hi Spike Lee!

I totally agree that it's foolish for people to complain about her lack of experience. I alluded to that above.

However, I disagree with the rest of your post. The VP pick is just as important as the Presidential. The simple fact is that A VP CAN become President if something happens to the #1 honcho. That's part of the reason the VP is there. It's happened before, of course, and the VP-become-President was no less powerful or important than the man he replaced. And the VP choice is even more important in this election, since we're dealing with two presidential candidates with increased likelihoods of death during service.

So if you're going to say that Obama's lack of experience is a bad thing, then sorry, but Palin's is just as bad. If Palin's freshness is good, Obama's is just as good.

It's not the same thing because most people really vote for who they think will be the best President. There's more wiggle room when it comes to VP picks. Besides McCain just has to keep running spots with Biden talking about Obama's lack of experience & leave it at that.

I'm talking about the fact that a VP pick is potentially as important as the choice for President.

MEM is correct. Unless McCain is on camera calling Palin an incompetent, there's really no comparison in terms of the its effect on the race.

You're gonna have quite a but of trouble making this fly.

More wiggle room based on what, exactly? Perceptions? Because that's the only thing you offer.

I'm not talking about perception. I'm talking about the fact that a VP pick is potentially as important as the choice for President. I'm not talking about polls or votes. I'm talking about the stuff that happens after the swearing in.

I think Dan Quayle vs Lloyd Bentson did a good job of showing that people will more readily vote for the ticket with the experience at the top than vice-versa.

As for "what happens after the swearing in": McCain picks his cabinet and governs the country. If he dies in office, Palin takes over until at least the next election, with that same cabinet in place and, presumably, after several years of "on the job training."

I think that's a more palatable "worst case scenario" than hope that Biden is able to tell his inexperienced boss what to do.

Basically, jason and other liberals are arguing that we should vote for Obama because he won't be a leader and will let his number two run things behind the scenes: precisely the thing they attack Bush for.

I don't think anyone plans for their own assassination

I think that's a more palatable "worst case scenario" than hope that Biden is able to tell his inexperienced boss what to do.

Basically, jason and other liberals are arguing that we should vote for Obama because he won't be a leader and will let his number two run things behind the scenes: precisely the thing they attack Bush for.

I'm just trying to remember what happened the last time a Presidential candidate picked a woman as his running mate. 3 total electoral votes I believe?

The only way that an argument about experience works for you (the left) in this election is if you assume that a VP is running the show. Hence my observation that the argument for Obama-Biden boils down to an argument that the VP will be running things behind the scenes.

. Cheney is like an evil mastermind behind the scenes in a man-sized safe in his home (which was removed from googlmaps). The company he ran got several no bid contracts in Iraq. That will translate to a lot of money once he leaves office and cracks into the blind trust that he put his Haliburton stock into. Cheney is creepy, his experience always seemed to involve creepy things, the things he said were creepy. And he shot a man in the face and then kept it quiet for a few days.

it's totally different. Cheney is like an evil mastermind behind the scenes in a man-sized safe in his home (which was removed from googlmaps). The company he ran got several no bid contracts in Iraq. That will translate to a lot of money once he leaves office and cracks into the blind trust that he put his Haliburton stock into. Cheney is creepy, his experience always seemed to involve creepy things, the things he said were creepy. And he shot a man in the face and then kept it quiet for a few days.
I think bush and cheney are the most disgusting and yes evil men to occupy that office. I may talk about Mccain agreeing with bush and voting with him way too often, but i don't think anyone will ever be as bad as bush/cheney. you can't draw comparisons between biden and cheney.

The only way that an argument about experience works for you (the left) in this election is if you assume that a VP is running the show.

Putting aside our disagreements on whether or not Cheney and Bush are evil incarnate, you need to remember that, back in 2000, Cheney was generally thought of in terms similar to those in which you think of Biden: an well-respected foreign policy expert and old Washington hand, who was supposed to balance the alleged inexperience of the younger guy on the top of the ticket:

Not to mention that Cheney, if memory serves, was hired by Bush to find a good running mate, and after all that money, he said "MEEEEE!!!!"

She's pretty hot.

Her tits get my vote.

Four years of Vice President Boobs?

Sign me up for that shit.

the party that elected bush?

I totally agree that it's foolish for people to complain about her lack of experience. I alluded to that above.

However, I disagree with the rest of your post. The VP pick is just as important as the Presidential. The simple fact is that A VP CAN become President if something happens to the #1 honcho. That's part of the reason the VP is there. It's happened before, of course, and the VP-become-President was no less powerful or important than the man he replaced. And the VP choice is even more important in this election, since we're dealing with two presidential candidates with increased likelihoods of death during service.

So if you're going to say that Obama's lack of experience is a bad thing, then sorry, but Palin's is just as bad. If Palin's freshness is good, Obama's is just as good.

And the VP choice is even more important in this election, since we're dealing with two presidential candidates with increased likelihoods of death during service.

isn't that the plot of some romantic comedy? jennifer lopez a matchmaker who falls for the guy she's trying to set up with a girl.

i don't get how anyone supports him. the no bid contracts in Iraq that he gave haliburton will make him millions of dollars. it's unfortunately legal because he put the stock into a blund trust that he won't touch until he's out of office.

if you masturbated then you would understand.

You still haven't caught up with the thread, have you?

but VPs aren't really seen like that. no matter what comments are made about them being a heartbeat away from the job, VP picks are about seasoning. Adding some little touch that the candidate lacks, or having some demographic/regional pull the candidate may need to win.

What happened to your love affair with moderate or middle man politicians? Palin seems too right of center for you to identify with

This is exactly what I didn't want to hear from other people supporting my (reluctant) candidate; "There's a woman on McCain's ticket! This is cooler than sliced bread!"

Now I'm gonna be standing in the ballot line with a bunch of feminists who are only voting Conservative because there's a woman on the ticket. At least if it were Condi, I'd know feminists hate her too much to go for her as a woman, but with Palin coming out of left...Er, right field as a soccer mom, McCain's become all r0x0r and shit.

And then, of course, there's going to be a whole bunch of fucktards voting for boobs.

Fuck this! I hate myself even more for voting for this man now.

I'm still more right of center than left. Just because I don't share your zeal for killing Mexicans and not allowing fair immigration for all ethnic groups doesn't mean I'm not a Republican. I'm socially liberal and everything else is conservative.

A Governor makes more decisions in a week than a Senator does in 6 months.

There is a reason why many Senators that were shoe-ins for their party's nomination always somehow end up losing to a governor or earn the nomination only to lose the Presidency to a Governor.

Not in this case, actually.

Sorry, but I didn't see "I'm talking about the fact that a VP pick is potentially as important as the choice for President," earlier in the thread.

Who is at an increased likelihood? McCains cancer is in remission, and Obama is in peak shape?

Both. McCain is old and Barack Obama is black.

Gov. Sarah Palin has always been a runner. Her parents were marathoners and high school track and cross-country coaches. "Running was a family affair," she says. "I didn't have much choice. Thankfully, I've never tired of it."

Gov. Palin, a mother of five kids, says exercise is still very much a "family thing." She and her husband, Todd, also an athlete, named their first son Track because he was born in that sport's season. Gov. Palin (above, near Mendenhall Glacier, outside of Juneau) and her family live in Wasilla, about 45 miles north of Anchorage.

Workout


"Conventional running is my sanity," Gov. Palin says. Having recently given birth to her fifth child, the governor is trying to get back to her old workout routine. She was running 7 to 10 miles almost every day but switched to aerobics classes at her gym when she became pregnant. She has worked her way back up to running three miles every other day.

In the summer, when it's always light, she'll sometimes run as late as midnight. In the dead of winter, when it's dark, she sneaks in an afternoon run, or else grudgingly runs on the treadmill at home or at the gym in the evening. Gov. Palin keeps dumbbells at home, but she says most of her upper body strength comes from snowmobiling with her family. "It's the best upper body workout you could ever have," she says. "You're maneuvering through hundreds of pounds of powder." (Todd is a four-time champion of the Tesoro Iron Dog, the world's longest snowmobile race.)
[sarah palin]
Brian Adams for WSJ. Magazine
Gov. Palin in Juneau, Alaska

Diet pitfall

"My family and I eat a healthy diet heavy in wild Alaskan seafood, moose, caribou and fresh fruit," she says. "I guess my biggest pitfall is breakfast. I know it's the most important meal of the day but I still haven't bought into it. I hate to admit it, but a skinny white-chocolate mocha is my staple in the morning."

Workout gear

"My ideal fantasy is to be running on a hot dusty road just wearing running shorts and some kind of top that wicks away sweat. But in reality I'm running in 20-below temperatures, so I wear layers of fleece and always a good outdoor waterproof trail shoe. Right now I've been running in Nike Air Structure Triax. And I always wear sunglasses. My kids tell me to put them on so I don't freak people out when they see me with a goofy hairdo and no makeup."

While I'm working out

"I'm thinking about my next speech. I usually write my best speeches and letters [in my head] while out running. That is my inspired time."

Postworkout food

"Nothing. I just drink water."

Workout pitfall

"Being pregnant every few years. If I get lazy and go weeks or months without exercising it's not because of circumstances but because I'm being less disciplined. Shame on me."

Not in this case, actually.


Well, it sure as heck ain't experience. Political experience hasn't been a major factor in a presidential election in a very long time.

So race and age make them more likely to die? McCain is pretty healthy, you dont just fall over becasue your in your 70's, you could but you are as likely as if you are in your 50's if your healthy.

Unless I missed something healthy black dudes in their 50's dont just fall over becasue they are black.

Either way Dude it will be historic and good for America. It's time to start thinking about other people to lead us instead of the same old good old boys. Obviously I'm for McCain and you for Obama but side by side we could live in harmony like ebony and ivory keys on a piano.

One thing that still irks me about Obama though is his lack of substance. Here is a guy many of us don't really trust and he keeps talking about change and how McCain's policies are wrong but yet he never ever gives a plan on how he would accomplish his goals.....he just attacks McCain. Even in his speech last night ( which I thought was a great moment for the country in all honesty ) All he did was attack McCain and try to give that weak really weak bullshit argument that this would be a third Bush term. No substance. He is relying on his rock star celebrity status but let me tell you he may get his ass kicked in the debates. Hilary put him in his place a few times.

Either way Dude it will be historic and good for America. It's time to start thinking about other people to lead us instead of the same old good old boys. Obviously I'm for McCain and you for Obama but side by side we could live in harmony like ebony and ivory keys on a piano.

One thing that still irks me about Obama though is his lack of substance. Here is a guy many of us don't really trust and he keeps talking about change and how McCain's policies are wrong but yet he never ever gives a plan on how he would accomplish his goals.....he just attacks McCain. Even in his speech last night ( which I thought was a great moment for the country in all honesty ) All he did was attack McCain and try to give that weak really weak bullshit argument that this would be a third Bush term. No substance. He is relying on his rock star celebrity status but let me tell you he may get his ass kicked in the debates. Hilary put him in his place a few times.

You do realize, of course, that you're trying to argue that McCain's advanced age doesn't make him more likely to die, right? I mean, I can understand it if you're trying to say he won't necessarily die. That's very true. But trying to say that a 72 year old is no more likely to die in the next 4 years than, say, a 50 year old?


The increased likelihood of assassination based on Obama's race.

Get me those whores you promised and I will consider your proposal.


I have to disagree. Obama spent a good amount of his speech last night outlining his goals as President. He outlined his plan as much as most candidates.

I should know, I've watched it twice so far.

According to NBC news, Obama and Biden both called to congratulate Palin. That's fairly classy as well.

I'm saying that a healthy 72 year old is not much more likely to fall over than a healthy 50 year old yes. People in their 70's are more likely to be unhealthy than those in their 70's but from what I understand his health is fine(this might not be true).

You do realize of course you're trying to say that a racist has a better shot at killing our President than Al Queda, Iran, or even the KGB right?

Pretty words wont achieve foals. It's like Bill Clinton said candidate A may represent all your hopes and dreams, candidate B may represent 50% of them but if candidate A cant achieve any of them and candidate B can achieve the 50% who is your better choice?

Bill Clinton also said Obama is the man to lead America.

So, the argument for Obama is "don't worry, someone will kill him and the we'll have Biden"? I can't believe that.

Bill Clinton was also told, in no uncertain term, that if Hillary wanted a future in DNC politics he had better stop taking shots at Obama and get on board immediately.

Count on it.

So what he said while campaigning for his wife should be taken more seriously than what he said while speaking for Obama?

So what he said while campaigning for his wife should be taken more seriously than what he said while speaking for Obama?

Yummy! She's on the RKMBs too!

When he was consistently dissing Obama up to days before the convention, yes.

Yummy! She's on the RKMBs too!

When he was consistently dissing Obama up to days before the convention, yes.

So he wasn't just a sore loser? He wasn't just pissed off that his wife lost?

No, but sort of. The argument is that the choices of Biden and Palin are important because whoever is chosen for President could die before 2013.

It could happen but not probably. With Obama, you start out with a lack of experience right away in the driver's seat.

With Hillary Clinton you wouldn't have had much more. And if experience was the measure of a Presidential hopeful, James Buchanan would have been awesome.

everyone says silly things when they are emotional Jason.

do you read the board or just make blind accusations? i wrote several posts in the VP thread about how this will grab women voters, I believe quite a few of us have said that.

the best part is somewhere out there whomod is crying about this.....

Forget regional balance and those white guys in suits. Alaska's young, hot, Vogue-posing, female Republican governor could become the popular favorite to be Sen. John McCain's running mate.

Named by Alaska Magazine as "America's Hottest Governor," Palin (pronounced Pay-lin) is getting big buzz in the conservative press and talk radio. Fans have a "Draft Sarah Polin" movement. What better balance for the 71-year-old nominee who could be facing a 46-year-old phenomenon?

A former athlete and beauty queen, Palin's approval ratings hover in 90 percent zone. Take that Barack. She was born in 1964 (1936 for McCain) and has four kids named Bristol, Piper, Track, and Willow. She could win Marin County on that alone. Plus a handsome fisherman hubby known as "First Dude."

Palin became a public hero taking on special interests, who practically own the Alaska political establishment. Forced to resign from the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission after complaining to Republican Gov. Frank Murkowski about corruption,she was banished to the political wilderness before coming back to defeat Murkowski in the GOP primary.

Palin forced the Alaska legislature into special session to increase oil taxes -- yes, that's oil taxes -- in Alaska, a Republican welfare state. And she vetoes public works projects.

Bill Clinton was also told, in no uncertain term, that if Hillary wanted a future in DNC politics he had better stop taking shots at Obama and get on board immediately.

Count on it.

With Hillary Clinton you wouldn't have had much more. And if experience was the measure of a Presidential hopeful, James Buchanan would have been awesome.

I'm sorry but I'd rather vote for a President, not a hypothetical.

you do realize Bush doesnt vote dont you?

Judging by the way many Dems reacted here on the boards and on the talk shows today I believe McCain hit a Home Run with Palin. They are shitting themselves trying to figure out how to deal with this. Time will tell.

... the shit was getting way too deep. They are freaking out!

not really clear on how a bill becomes law, are you? bush votes with his pen. he votes yes and signs it into law or votes no and vetoes it.

Judging by the way many Dems reacted here on the boards and on the talk shows today I believe McCain hit a Home Run with Palin. They are shitting themselves trying to figure out how to deal with this. Time will tell.

History International is showing the how the Greeks invented the Railroad.

I agree it bothered me too....John Amos used to be a regular at our Diner back in the day. He used to live one town over.

http://news.yahoo.com/story/ap/cvn_veepstakes;_ylt=AsAfowJc2MKfvxp4T7nOJ3lh24cA

It's not about who has the most but at least having some Jason. If Obama had at least finished a term it would have been sufficient for me. Instead we have a year or two where he played it safe before running for President.

Palin has a track record of taking on big oil and winning, where is MoveOn.org's talking points about this? Obama and Biden talk about it she has done it, that is experience.

So you vote based on experience, while I vote based on policy. There you go.

Unless you're a crazy socialist who hates America, of course.

So you vote based on experience, while I vote based on policy. There you go.

she's secretly BoB tHe BoB....

I have to say I had half-hoped that other famous GOP centrist, the Gubernator, might be picked as VP candidate, but I'm guessing there would be some constitutional issues there because he was born abroad.

I read about Palin a year ago in Monocle, a UK magazine, and the article was talking about how she was kind of naive but a truly popular grass-roots politician and what a shame it was that she was from Alaska (the sticks) otherwise she should go to Washington.

I think this was a very clever move, if somewhat lacking in subtlety. Those Dems who were supporting Hillary because she was a woman will really have to think very hard about this. And on top of that McCain is about the best GOP POTUS a Dem could hope for and Palin about the best GOP VP a Dem could hope for.

But what this really signifies is the death of the neocons. The "maverick" McCain as President and the centrist Palin as VP? Neoconservatism as a political force is gone. It might be back, but no time soon. The conservatives in the US are starting to look like European mainstream conservatives - pro-business but socially moderate (which is how I vote, incidentally). So much for the US being right of everyone else in the Western world.

I have to say I had half-hoped that other famous GOP centrist, the Gubernator, might be picked as VP candidate, but I'm guessing there would be some constitutional issues there because he was born abroad.

you really strike me as too smart to fall for that.

McCain has made it fairly clear during the last few years that he's against a woman's right to choose

Actually I think he is for a child's right to live.

Actually I think he is for a child's right to live.



Palin is not going to win Hilary Dems, but she may sway undecided women. The abortion issue has widely been reported even by the liberal media as a undeciding factor amongst moderates.

I think the fact that she put the life of her child with a disability ahead of her career ambitions(which she actually continued with her children), is inspiring to women, and people in general.

Also as noted earlier, this election will be a electoral victory for someone, and 10,000 extra votes in a state where you wouldn't have got them could be the difference. Hilary lefties weren't going to vote for McCain before this, this wont hurt him, there is only upside.

presactly. that so many pro-abortionists word it the way they do has never failed to amaze me.

Now, if she'd quit her job or turned down the VP spot because Trig needs more care, THAT would be putting him ahead of her political ambitions.

The difference is that most people that support a women's right to choose what to do with her body aren't necessarily FOR abortion.

I just don't think that the government has the right to legislate what a woman can and cannot do with her body.

How convenient.

Couldn't one just as easily reason that it's Palin's desire to see politics change into what she views as a more ideal atmosphere for her children that motivates her to run?

Do you do this on purpose? Seriously, I didn't figure you'd go for making the issue more ambiguous by extrapolating the term "choice" so nebulously. You're starting to sound like one of those feminazis.

I'm sure you don't care, but you'd really impress me if you'd actually use terms like, "anti-abortion" and "pro-abortion" instead of "life" and "choice."

So do you think that Martin Short had a right to kill Dennis Quaid since he was in his colon?

but they already have legislated it.

but they already have legislated it.

Not really. As I understand it, the decision on Roe V. Wade says that the government can't outlaw the option of abortion. It doesn't force a woman to have one or not to have one. It just gives her a credible choice in the matter.

Roe V. Wade will never be repealed no matter what any politician says on either side of the aisle.

Not really. As I understand it, the decision on Roe V. Wade says that the government can't outlaw the option of abortion. It doesn't force a woman to have one or not to have one. It just gives her a credible choice in the matter.

Read it yourself...

http://www.classbrain.com/artteenst/publish/roe_v_wade.shtml

I don't disagree, but I think the attack will be more difficult than it would've been against a candidate without the same back story.

After all, she's the first pro-life candidate who is a woman. That automatically eliminates that old cliche feminists use of "[the candidate] wouldn't feel that way if [the candidate] was a woman."

As another poster noted, the hard core feminists weren't going to vote for the GOP in any event. Her appeal is going to be to moderates and independents (or conservative democrat women) who wouldn't have otherwise voted Republican.

And, again as noted above, in a close race in a swing state that could decide the election.

If McCain wins and Ginsberg and Stevens can't hold out til a Democrat finally gets in office, I'll bet you 100 hard earned American dollars that Roe won't make it to the end of his first (only?) term.

One way or another, Choice is going to decide this election.

I think what Sammitch is saying is that the government does already legislate what women, and even men, can do with their bodies. A person can't choose to charge someone else for the act of sex. That's prostitution, and it's illegal.

Honestly, I don't know what Palin brings to the ticket other than shock value and an interesting bio. We'll see how she does in the next couple of months and if she actually brings anything to McCain's campaign.

No arguement from me. My point is that her appeal and mobilization to get out the vote for that group will be much more narrow than the pro choice women who may not have voted for Obama without this type of compelling reason. We'll see who's right in November.

One way or another, Choice is going to decide this election.

Yeah, I thought about that. I chose the more narrow definition to support my arguement. AND because prostitution isn't relevant to the discussion. Besides Prostitution SHOULD be legal. Why is it any different from porn?

I don't think that abortion is going to be that big of a factor. I think she'll appeal more to the working class mothers on a personal level with her story than they'll be put off by her pro-life stance. It's one of those things that's not as big an issue as special interest groups and the media tend to make it out to be. Yes, the baseline of each party will vote based on those things; but I think the independent and moderate voters are more concerned with broader issues that affect them on a daily basis like the economy.

Nope. Never. Won't happen. Abortion is an issue that a certain number of people feel passionate about, but for the vast majority of Americans it isn't the issue they decide the presidency upon. Especially since, as noted above, the election of a President will never directly result in making abortions illegal.

I don't think that abortion is going to be that big of a factor. I think she'll appeal more to the working class mothers on a personal level with her story than they'll be put off by her pro-life stance. It's one of those things that's not as big an issue as special interest groups and the media tend to make it out to be. Yes, the baseline of each party will vote based on those things; but I think the independent and moderate voters are more concerned with broader issues that affect them on a daily basis like the economy.

As I said earlier, it'll be like 2004 when the issue was on the ballot to add an amendment to the Ohio Constitution defining marriage. The evangelicals turned out in much larger numbers than normal to vote for it and the vast majority of them voted for Bush while they were there. Those votes carried the state.

In my opinion, choice is going to be that single issue that, as you said, can and will sway a swing state one way or the other. It won't be the sole motivator for most voters but, it will be for enough of them to turn the election, I think, for Obama.

Presactly. People vote on economic and security issues every time.

Why do undereducated, lower middle class voters tend to vote republican when they typically don't benefit from the economic policies?

Based on that anecdote even if abortion were the deciding factor it would decide it in favor of McCain, not Obama.

In my model, the left and even some moderate Republican women will mobilize to uphold Roe . That's why I see it for Obama.

That assumes a fact not in evidence, to wit, that republican policies don't benefit such people.

Why would you think that's going to happen this year when it didn't happen in 2000 or 2004, when the overtly pro-life George W. Bush ran for President and won twice?

Well, counselor...I'm not whomod so I'm not going to search all over the interwebs to find articles to support my claims but, I know this much...Many of my in-laws from rural West Virginia voted Republican in the last 2 elections and are now hurting more economically than they were in 2000 and previous...stimulus check be damned. Most of them will be giving the Dems a try this year.

Purely anecdotal and not admissable in court but there you are....

The Justices weren't as old and weren't making so much noise about stepping down.

But even if we accept your anecdote as an example of a broad trend this year, it does not illustrate that the policies "typically" hurt such voters. It only illustrates that they perceive the current policies as hurting them and are considering a change in voting habits for this particular election.

Actually, in both 2000 and 2004 it was predicted that the president elected that year would have the opportunity to make several court appointments. And, if 2004 was decided "on fear" that tends to support my position that security and economic issues are what decide elections.

Impressing you is not particularly high on my list of things to do. But the fact is simple: I don't use those terms because I am neither for nor against abortion. I stand for the right of a woman to make an educated choice about whether to continue or end a pregnancy without the government forcing a decision one way or another.

I think it would be great if every woman who got pregnant would have no need to choose to end it. It would be awesome if pregnacies only happened when they were convenient and when the parents are together in a loving relationship and emotionally and financially stable enough to provide for the child in the best way possible. But that utopian society hasn't happened yet. The world that I live in needs Roe v. Wade.

Figured I wasn't exact in my interpretation of the legalese but...close enough for government work or the RKMBs.

Fair point. But, given the emotional resonance of the issue and the zealotry by small groups on both sides, I think it will be enough.

Again, the vast majority of voters aren't going to vote based on a "small" issue like choice but, for some, it will be the ONLY issue that matters.

Yeah.

BTW, who wants to bet that Tina Fey is going to be back on SNL playing Palin this fall?

To me, it just seems like a shameless ploy by the McCain campaign to drum up support without mentioning any issues.

And how!



Seriously, though, what EXACTLY does she bring to McCain's campaign? Aside from being a reasonably attractive woman, what areas that McCain lacks could Palin help with? To me, it just seems like a shameless ploy by the McCain campaign to drum up support without mentioning any issues.

Oh, damn, but this is hilarious...

Over at the left-wing message board Daily Kos, there's apparently a new conspiracy theory brewing that Gov. Palin's youngest son is actually her daughter's bastard child and Palin covered it up by wearing a fake pregnancy suit for nine months.

I wonder what the over/under is on how long before Olbermann tries to run with this as an actual news story?

And how!



Seriously, though, what EXACTLY does she bring to McCain's campaign? Aside from being a reasonably attractive woman, what areas that McCain lacks could Palin help with? To me, it just seems like a shameless ploy by the McCain campaign to drum up support without mentioning any issues.

Oh, damn, but this is hilarious...

Over at the left-wing message board Daily Kos, there's apparently a new conspiracy theory brewing that Gov. Palin's youngest son is actually her daughter's bastard child and Palin covered it up by wearing a fake pregnancy suit for nine months.

I wonder what the over/under is on how long before Olbermann tries to run with this as an actual news story?

Fishing permit violations. A blue-collar husband who racked up a DUI citation as a 22-year-old. An unmarried teenage daughter who is pregnant and a nasty child custody battle involving a family member.

All of this, to one degree or another, has surfaced in recent days as a result of efforts to discredit or undermine Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin. But these revelations may have the opposite effect: In one sense, they could reinforce how remarkably unremarkable she is.

So far — and it is hard to tell what the future may hold for Palin’s unexpected national candidacy — the travails of the Palin family probably seem awfully familiar to many average Americans. It is this averageness that makes her such a politically promising running mate for John McCain — and such a dangerous opponent for Democrats. Many voters will find it easy to identify with her family’s struggles — a significant advantage in an election where the voting calculus is so unusually and intensely personal.

Democrats Barack Obama and Joe Biden hardly come from blue-blood backgrounds; Biden, now famously, is an Irish-Catholic son of Scranton, Pa., and Obama was raised by a single mother. But the fact that Palin, even as a governor, remains grounded in a recognizable American lifestyle — warts and all — has not gone unnoticed among Republicans, as the first wave of opposition research has been unloaded on her.

“Authenticity is the most important characteristic for someone seeking public office,” said Nick Ayers, executive director of the Republican Governors Association. “Any news that comes out about her is not going to hurt her because it reinforces the point that she is authentically one of us.”

Unlike running mates from both parties, dating back decades, the Palin family isn't part of the moneyed elite or the governing class. Neither wife nor husband is the scion of a well-connected family. Sarah Palin attended a state school, and her brushes with the law are of the same nettlesome kind that drive recreational fishermen crazy in all 50 states.

“Look at the nature of this: small-town mayor, marrying the high school sweetheart — these are the kinds of things you’d see in a Budweiser commercial as opposed to an Amstel Light commercial,” said South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford. “She wasn’t born of political pedigree, and people like that.”

Even the governor’s own Trooper-gate scandal, in which Palin is alleged to have exerted undue pressure to fire a state trooper, is suffused with an element that many families can identify with: one sister stepping in on behalf of another in an acrimonious dispute with a brother-in-law.

Powerful media organizations are beginning to pour resources into this story, so much more damaging twists and turns may await. But assuming the accusations don’t grow more serious, it is of a considerably different nature as an abuse of power than the last Trooper-gate scandal to rock the political world — the one in which Bill Clinton was alleged to use his state troopers in Arkansas to procure women as sex partners. That wouldn’t excuse Palin’s actions, of course, but it would frame them in such a way that could limit the political damage.





“The media doesn’t understand life membership in the NRA; they don’t understand getting up at 3 a.m. to hunt a moose; they don’t understand eating a mooseburger; they don’t understand being married to a guy who likes to snowmobile for fun. I am not surprised that they don’t get it. But Americans get it,” said Florida Rep. Adam Putnam. “A mooseburger means she is like one of us. She is not some jackass who’s ‘gone Washington.’”

With a pregnant teenage daughter and an infant with Down syndrome, the Palins, it seems, have been caught up in the same struggles of everyday life that confront many American families. And it poses a difficult challenge for Democrats because she will be juxtaposed against Biden, a United States senator with 35 years of experience.

Biden has his own compelling narrative; he commuted back to Wilmington, Del., daily for years to be with his young sons after his wife and infant daughter died in an automobile accident. But it is revealing that the first round of tough stories after his nomination explored conflicts of interest between Biden family members and one of the nation’s biggest asbestos litigation law firms. That’s a long way from fishing license violations.

If Palin can withstand more media vetting — a big if — and if she can avoid being framed as a nutty, gun-toting, Bible-thumper — another big if — it will suddenly become clear that there is no playbook for how to contend with a national politician who hasn’t been in the public arena long enough to accumulate the kind of personal and ethical baggage that almost invariably accompanies the ascent to power.

The recently dialed-down Democratic response to Palin’s nomination is an indicator that the Obama campaign is beginning to understand what it’s up against.

At a press availability Monday in Monroe, Mich., Obama strongly distanced himself from personal attacks on Palin.

“I have said before, and I will repeat again: People's families are off-limits," Obama said. "And people's children are especially off-limits. This shouldn't be part of our politics. It has no relevance to Gov. Palin's performance as a governor or her potential performance as a vice president. So I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories. You know, my mother had me when she was 18, and how a family deals with issues and teenage children, that shouldn’t be a topic of our politics."

Fishing permit violations. A blue-collar husband who racked up a DUI citation as a 22-year-old. An unmarried teenage daughter who is pregnant and a nasty child custody battle involving a family member.

All of this, to one degree or another, has surfaced in recent days as a result of efforts to discredit or undermine Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin. But these revelations may have the opposite effect: In one sense, they could reinforce how remarkably unremarkable she is.

etc...

Fair point.

However...Palin is being presented as a stauch proponent of family values. She supports abstinance only education and her teenage daughter pops up pregnant. That's pretty inconvenient.

She's supposed to be a reformer that opposed "the Bridge to Nowhere" and is against pork barrel earmarks yet this article tells a different story. Looks like another "for it before I was against it" deal.

The Trooper-gate scandal may be a rallying point for some people but, she originally said that her office had nothing to do with the firing of the Public Safety Commissioner nor did it try to pressure him into firing her former brother in law. She had to walk back on that one after an investigation revealed that half dozen members of her staff had made more than 2 dozen calls trying to get the guy fired. Not to mention that a tape came out with one of her aides talking to the commissioner saying that she wanted the guy gone.

The brother-in-law seems like a scumbag and nobody is really going to hold it against her if she tried to use her clout to fuck with him. The problem is it looks like she fired an innocent guy just because he didn't do what she wanted AND she lied about being even peripherally involved. That's two different ethical issues she looks to be on the wrong side of.

It is what it is. Could be that all the stuff that's coming out about her will just serve to energize the Right even more and make them rally around her.

But, it would seem to me that even supporters of McCain have got to wonder about his vetting process if his campaign didn't know about all this stuff before he picked her.

And if he did know about all of it, then seems like you'd have to seriously question his judgement for picking her when there were better, more qualified candidates out there without all the baggage.

Betcha Ridge or Leiberman are looking a lot better to some of McCain's senior aides right now...

Hell, McCain would probably take Rudy right now.

Seems like you would at least ask yourself the question...Why would McCain choose a running mate that is virtually unknown by most of the country and carries around a lot of baggage that may have a negative effect within his own party?

I think Obama will win regardless.

Is it over exageration to say that before last Friday Gov. Palin was unknown to a majority of Americans?

Prolly not.

Is it whomodian to note that her closet contains several skeletons that might not be particularly helpful in the next few months before the election?

Nope.

My so-called analysis of Gov. Palin amounts to posting facts about her that have been widely reported.

THIS is analysis of the Palin pick. You may not agree with it but, it is a distinct possibility.

And before you get it twisted, make note: I just posted it and allowed for the possibility. Once again, I think Obama will win regardless.

Your "facts" are, in reality, an examination of controversies that allege certain things about Palin. And this examination is complemented by deceitful terms like "skeletons" and "baggage" that serve as figurative intensifiers which end up inflating the citations.

Without going over every point of your article of choice, it's easy enough for me to point out that it's a congealment of half-assed predictions based on what you and the author feel qualifies as "baggage."

The only real concrete development the author and you grab onto is the teen-pregnancy. And certainly it won't be helpful for Palin or McCain, but the way you're trying to manipulate the situation, it's being made out to be a major impediment rather than a minor nuisance. The most that its scrutiny by the leftist blog-o-sphere does is make the democrats look bad--Which is why Obama told them to shut their mouths.

There are any number of reasons why McCain would pick an unknown. They could be just as easily positive as they are negative. In which case, I can easily see the choice of Palin being used to combat Obama's attempt to maintain a monopoly on ticket variety. But I also see that she is more conservative than McCain and that directly addresses right-wing concerns that the ticket is too left of center.

ah the Bastard reads the Huffington post, now it makes sense,,,,,

Speaking of Obama, he takes the high road in most of these debates but it doesn't stop the McCain sympathizers from constantly refering to all the falsehoods spread about him.

the article is your source. you dont realize that? i wouldnt quote a liberal or conservative site for an argument, let alone base my political views off of one. if youre reading crap like that, no wonder you are so skewed.


i'll just pick apart one example, in the story you quoted they acted as if it was a secret that Palin first supported the bridge project, but the day she was nominated I read a story where she said she initially supported the project. really, if you wanna play with the big boys, you gotta do some research....

Just think what would have happened had Obama picked John Edwards to be on the ticket before the whole affair/possible baby daddy scandal had come out. You so-called conservatives/moderates/independants/psuedo-neocons would be shatting all over yourselves in your zeal to eviscerate Obama for his poor choice.

By David Harsanyi

The potential political consequences of Sarah Palin have been chewed over from every imaginable angle.

Though there is plenty to ponder, one thing is certain: libertarian-inclined voters should be encouraged. No, I'm not suggesting that your little Molly will be bringing home "The Road to Serfdom" from her (distinctly non-public) elementary school. But in contrast to any national candidate in recent memory, Palin is the one that exudes the economic and cultural sensibilities of a geniune Western-style libertarian.

Now, Palin's lack of experience has been framed as an impenetrable negative. One wire story helpfully noted that Palin had never ever appeared on "Meet the Press." Shocking! But as Barack Obama often notes, it's not about experience, it's about judgment. And Palin's penchant for reform-minded conservatism is certainly at odds with the racket Washington Republicans have offered up the past 8 years.

Palin, for example, vetoed 300 pork projects in Alaska in her first year in office. She made a habit of knocking out big-government Republicans in her brief political career. For this, the 44-year-old mother of five enjoys a sterling approval rating in a state with arguably the nation's most libertarian-minded populace.

When it comes to healthcare, Palin says she wants to "allow free-market competition and reduce onerous government regulation." These days, any mention of the "free market" that's not framed as a crass pejorative is a sign of progress.

Culturally, there is little for the Heartland to dislike. By now, you've probably seen picture or two of Palin sporting a rifle. Apparently, she's left carcasses strewn across the Alaskan wilderness. In some places -- areas where the nation is growing -- owning a gun is not yet a sin. And unlike Obama, Palin seems to believe that the Second Amendment means the exact same thing in rural Alaska as it does in the streets of Chicago.

Yes, Palin is without argument a staunch social conservative. She is fervently opposed to abortion - even in cases of rape and incest, which will raise eyebrows, but is certainly more philosophically consistent than the namby pambyism of your average politician. The choice issue, after all, is complicated, even for many libertarians. And, as I was recently reminded, Ron Paul, the Libertarian champion of the 21st century, also opposes abortion.

Even when advocating for "moral" issues, Palin's approach is a soft sell. Palin does not support gay marriage (neither does Obama, it should be noted). Yet, in 2006, Palin's first veto as Governor was a bill that sought to block state employee benefits and health insurance for same-sex couples.

We cannot bore into Palin's soul to see her true feelings about gay couples, but, at the time, she noted that signing "this bill would be in direct violation of my oath of office" because it was unconstitutional. For most libertarians, the thought of politician following any constitution, rather than their own predilections, morality or the "common good," is a nice change of pace.

On the counterproductive War on Drugs, Palin is no warrior. Her Republican opponent in 2006 primary, incumbent Republican governor Frank Murkowski, made recriminalizing the possession of small amounts of pot a priority. Palin, though she does not support legalization, believes enforcement should be a high priority.

"I can't claim a Bill Clinton and say that I never inhaled," Palin once said. This sort of honesty is a welcome change from the standard hand-wringing about marijuana's supposed disastrous consequences.

On education, Palin supports school-choice programs. There have already been smears that she backed "creationist" teaching in "public" schools, when in fact, Palin's comment regarding intelligent design should hold some appeal to libertarians. Even if you find the idea inane, in essence, Palin pushed the idea that parents, rather than the state, should decide what children are learning.

When asked about this commotion, Palin said, "I won't have religion as a litmus test, or anybody's personal opinion on evolution or creationism." If lockstep left-wing union-run school boards in urban districts would follow this sound advice on ideological litmus tests, our educational system would be a lot more productive.

Then there is a question of authenticity. And it matters. Those who will do anything for power, will say anything and support any position that is convenient. From John McCain to Joe Biden to Obama, one gets the sense that political office is their life's work. All of them have made attempts to create the perception that, hey, they're ordinary Americans just like you. Palin won't have to work at genuineness. With Palin, you get the impression she can take politics or leave it. Her life certainly hasn't been saturated with policy, favor trading and back scratching.

Of course, Washington has a mysterious power to turn perfectly reasonable, wholesome, well-meaning human beings into equivocating crooked gasbags. But, from the little we know about Palin, such a transformation doesn't seem likely. And for libertarians - in the broadest sense of the small "l" word -- she's the best candidate they can expect.

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's husband, Todd, twice registered as a member of the Alaskan Independence Party, a fierce states' rights group that wants to turn all federal lands in Alaska back to the state. Sarah Palin herself was never a member of the party, according to state officials.

Questions about a third-party link to John McCain's new running mate emerged Tuesday as the latest issue facing the McCain campaign in the midst of the Republican National Convention.

Questions had swirled about Sarah Palin's affiliation with the Independence Party and with former presidential candidate Pat Buchanan. Voter registration records and past news reports, however, show Palin never registered as a member of the Independence Party, and backed Steve Forbes' presidential campaign in 2000, not Buchanan.

"Supporters of Barack Obama are engaged in an unfortunate and nasty smear campaign," McCain spokesman Brian Rogers said, specifically citing issues related to Palin's politics.

Gail Fenumiai, director of the Alaska Division of Elections, said Todd Palin twice registered under the Alaskan Independence Party — in 1995 and 2000. Some members of the party have advocated secession from the United States, though that is not a goal listed in the party's platform.

Voter registration records show Sarah Palin registered in May 1982 as a member of the Republican Party and has not changed her affiliation. Todd Palin has been registered undeclared since 2002, Fenumiai said.

Palin did address the Alaskan Independence Party's state convention by video earlier this year, welcoming the party to Fairbanks.

"Your party plays an important role in our state's politics," she said in the video, which is posted on the party's Web site. "I've always said that competition is so good, and that applies to political parties as well."

Obama spokesman Bill Burton objected to Rogers's accusation of a smear. He pointed to comments by Lynette Clark, the chairman of the AIP, who told ABC News that Palin and her husband, Todd, belonged to the party in 1994.

Obama advisers and surrogates have linked Palin to conservative former presidential candidate Pat Buchanan. An Associated Press story from Alaska, dated July 17, 1999, stated that Palin, then the mayor of the small town of Wasilla, was wearing a Buchanan button during a Buchanan visit to Alaska.

But in a letter to the Anchorage Daily News a week later, Palin wrote: "When presidential candidates visit our community, I am always happy to meet them. I'll even put on their button when handed one as a polite gesture of respect. ... The article may have left your readers with the perception that I am endorsing this candidate, as opposed to welcoming his visit to Wasilla."

A week after that, the Associated Press reported that Palin would serve as a co-chair of Forbes' campaign.

Still, the Miami Herald this week quoted an e-mail from Obama Florida spokesman Mark Bubriski that stated: "Palin was a supporter of Pat Buchanan, a right-winger or as many Jews call him: a Nazi sympathizer."

The Republican backlash against coverage of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin’s family came on full display Tuesday, as the audience at a breakfast panel discussion groaned loudly in reaction to a question about 17-year-old Bristol Palin’s pregnancy.

“Lay off the kid,” said former Republican strategist and NBC news analyst Mike Murphy, responding to an audience member who asked how conservatives would respond if similar information arose about a Democratic candidate’s child.

Idaho Lt. Gov. Jim Risch, another panelist, dismissed the subject, tersely saying: “Next question.”

Panelists defended Palin at a discussion hosted by Politico, the St. Paul Pioneer Press and Yahoo News. Joining Murphy and Risch at the event were California Rep. Kevin McCarthy, Ohio Rep. Deborah Pryce and Michigan Rep. Candace Miller.

Pryce suggested that Bristol Palin’s pregnancy could help her mother’s political prospects.

“It just makes her more real,” she said.

But even as panelists swatted down speculation about the Palin family’s personal lives, they acknowledged there were risks in tapping the Alaska governor to be the Republican vice presidential candidate.

Murphy argued that the next few weeks will be crucial in determining whether Palin would be an appealing figure to swing voters, or whether she would ultimately be “only a base pick” who appeals mostly to conservative Republicans.

“Will she be someone who helps us grow the pie or only helps us reinforce the pie we have?” Murphy asked. “We don’t know yet.”

While the shock factor in Palin’s nomination has drawn attention to the Republican ticket, Republicans said there’s still a lot for the public to learn about the 44-year-old Alaska governor.

“She’s unknown,” Miller conceded. “So the risk really is: Is there something out there that might not play particularly well?”

When McCain announced Palin as his running mate Friday, the pick drew almost universal applause from conservatives. Over the weekend and on Monday, questions began to arise about the thoroughness of the McCain campaign’s vice presidential vetting process as new information surfaced about Palin’s term as governor and past political affiliations.

“If there are a few more things [that] pop up,” Murphy predicted, “the question won’t be her, it’ll be the McCain vetting process.”

Palin, who on Friday presented herself as an opponent of the infamous “Bridge to Nowhere” earmark, turns out to have originally supported that project. On Monday, the public learned that Palin had hired an attorney to help her navigate a state ethics probe related to the firing of Alaska’s public safety commissioner.

“It’ll be about McCain’s judgment” if more damaging information emerges, Murphy said. “That’s a story McCain’s ultimately got to fight through and win, otherwise it’ll be a problem.”

And in addition to whatever currently unknown information might arise, Palin’s short time in the national spotlight could also be a problem, according to the panelists.

“I think the greatest risk is going to be experience on national and foreign policy,” McCarthy said.

Several panelists even suggested McCain might not have selected Palin if not for her gender.

“I think probably not,” McCarthy said. “There would’ve been other people that would’ve met the criteria.”

“I don’t think she would’ve been picked if she’d been Sam instead of Sarah,” Risch said. “But then, Sam wouldn’t bring to the ticket what Sarah brings to the ticket.”

Still, despite the rocky start to Palin’s first week as her party’s vice presidential candidate, Republicans are as charged up as ever about McCain’s running mate.

“I’m a pro-choice, Republican, moderate woman. Sarah Palin and I probably have very different opinions on many issues,” said Pryce, “but I have never been more excited in my entire political career than the day she was announced.”

Miller was similarly enthusiastic, predicting Palin would win support from women in her Macomb County congressional district, long considered a bellweather of national political sentiment.

“I did not really plan on coming to this convention,” she said. “I came because of her pick.”

McCarthy, who is chairing the Republican platform committee in St. Paul, emphasized Palin’s background as a reform-minded politician in Alaska.

“She took out an incumbent governor and she did it in Alaska, which is the biggest good old boy system you could ever have.” he said. “She’s not going to be weak in the face of aggression from somebody else.”

Recalling a meeting with Palin during a recent trip to Alaska, McCarthy praised her authenticity: “You walk away just liking her, she’s just a genuine, genuine person.”

“She doesn’t have to be perfect, she doesn’t have to be glitzy,” Miller agreed. “She has to be real.”

Jann Wenner the publisher also runs Men's Health another mag I get which is going to get canceled later.

If he keeps her, he currently looks like he rushed to a decision without fully vetting her. Pretty bad.

If her replaces her, he looks like he can't make big decisions. His first big decision was a mistake, here's round two folks... Campaign suicide.

Thank you John McCain for losing this election.

By passing over his friends Joe Lieberman and Tom Ridge, and picking Palin, McCain has given himself a fighting chance of winning the White House that, before Friday morning, seemed to be slipping away. Indeed, the bristling reaction on the left testifies to Democratic fears that the choice of Palin could indeed be a game-changer in 2008.

Liberals howl that Palin has no experience, no qualifications to be president of the United States. But the lady has more executive experience than McCain, Joe Biden and Obama put together.

None of them has ever started or run a business as Palin did. None of them has run a giant state like Alaska, which is larger than California and Texas put together. And though Alaska is not populous, Gov. Palin has as many constituents as Nancy Pelosi or Biden.

She has no foreign policy experience, we are told. And though Alaska's neighbors are Canada and Russia, the point is valid. But from the day she takes office, Palin will get daily briefings and sit on the National Security Council with the president and secretaries of state, treasury and defense.

She will be up to speed in her first year.

And her experience as governor of Alaska, dealing with the oil industry and pipeline agreements with Canada, certainly compares favorably with that of Barack Obama, a community organizer who dealt in the mommy issues of food stamps and rent subsidies.

Where Obama has poodled along with the Daley Machine, Palin routed the Republican establishment, challenging and ousting a sitting GOP governor before defeating a former Democratic governor to become the first female and youngest governor in state history.

For his boldness in choosing Palin, McCain deserves enormous credit. He has made an extraordinary gesture to conservatives and the party base, offering his old antagonists a partner's share in his presidency. And his decision is likely to be rewarded with a massive and enthusiastic turnout for the McCain-Palin ticket. Rarely has this writer encountered such an outburst of enthusiasm on the right.

In choosing Palin, McCain may also have changed the course of history as much as Ike did with his choice of Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan did with his choice of George H.W. Bush. For should this ticket win, Palin will eclipse every other Republican as heir apparent to the presidency and will have her own power base among Lifers, Evangelicals, gun folks and conservatives -- wholly independent of President McCain.

A traditional conservative on social issues, Palin has become, overnight, the most priceless political asset the movement has. Look for the neocons to move with all deliberate speed to take her into their camp by pressing upon her advisers and staff, and steering her into the AEI-Weekly Standard-War Party orbit.

Indeed, if McCain defeats Barack, 2012 could see women on both national tickets, and given McCain's age and the possibility he intends to serve a single term, women at the top of both -- Sarah vs. Hillary.

The arrival of Palin on the national scene, with her youth, charisma and vitality, probably also portends a changing of the guard in Washington.

With Republicans having zero chance of capturing either House, and but a slim chance of avoiding losses in both, a Vice President Palin, with her reputation as a rebel and reformer, would surely inspire similar revolts in the Republican caucuses.

As Thomas Jefferson said, from time to time, a little rebellion in the political world is as necessary as storms in the physical.

The Palin nomination could backfire, but it is hard to see how. She has passed her first test, her introduction to the nation, with wit and grace. And the Obama-Biden ticket, having already alienated millions of women with the disrespecting of Hillary, is unlikely to start attacking another woman whose sole offense is that she had just been given the chance to break the glass ceiling at the national level.

Her nomination, which will bring the Republican right home, also frees up McCain to appeal to moderates and liberals, which has long been his stock in trade.

With his selection of Sarah Palin, John McCain has not only shaken up this election, he may have helped shape the future of the United States -- and much for the better.

The founder of the Alaska Independence Party -- a group that has been courted over the years by Sarah Palin, and one her husband was a member of for roughly seven years -- once professed his "hatred for the American government" and cursed the American flag as a "damn flag."

The AIP founder, Joe Vogler, made the comments in 1991, in an interview that's now housed at the Oral History Program in the Rasmuson Library at the University of Alaska, Fairbanks.

"The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government," Vogler said in the interview, in which he talked extensively about his desire for Alaskan secession, the key goal of the AIP.

"And I won't be buried under their damn flag," Vogler continued in the interview, which also touched on his disappointment with the American judicial system. "I'll be buried in Dawson. And when Alaska is an independent nation they can bring my bones home."

[SIZE=6]Todd Palin Was Registered Member of Alaska Independence Party Until 2002[/SIZE]
By Kate Klonick - September 2, 2008, 3:25PM

The McCain camp today disputed rumors that presumptive vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin was ever registered with the secessionist Alaska Independence Party by releasing years of voter registration history . . . but it looks like that doesn't apply to her husband.

This afternoon, the director of Division of Elections in Alaska, Gail Fenumiai, told TPMmuckraker that Todd Palin registered in October 1995 to the Alaska Independence Party, a radical group that advocates for Alaskan secession from the United States.

Besides a short period of a few months in 2000 when he changed his registration to undeclared, Todd Palin remained a registered member of AIP until July 2002 when he registered again as an undeclared voter.

Okay, imagine, just imagine, a Democratic candidate being a member of a party where people say they're not Americans.

or imagine one going to a church that proclaimed God Damn America for 20 years!

whomod, can you please increase the font size and boldness of all text in your posts? not necessarily, like, important parts, or sparingly. just everything. i masturbate a lot, so, y'know, i can't read too well.

oh, also, welcome back!

Republican White House nominee John McCain on Wednesday attacked Barack Obama's achievements as "meager" and said his Democratic foe did not know how the world, or the US military, worked.

The Arizona Senator, who was set to be formally nominated as his party's White House champion later Wednesday, also defended his under-fire running mate Sarah Palin, saying she had been "vetted" by voters in her home state Alaska.

He said in an interview with "ABC World News" that Obama's achievements were "very meager" in comparison to those of Palin who was a smalltown mayor and is now Alaska Governor.

Obama has argued that though he is merely a first term senator and a former state lawmaker, he has more executive experience than Palin as he sits atop a multi-million dollar presidential campaign with thousands of employees.

"Senator Obama has a campaign to run, Governor Sarah Palin has 24,000 employees in the state government," McCain said.

"She's responsible for 20 percent of the nation's energy supply.

"I'm entertained by the comparison and I hope we can keep making that comparison that running a political campaign is somehow comparable to being the executive of the largest state in America."

McCain, who makes his keynote speech to the Republican National Convention on Thursday, said his resume was far more appropriate to the job of president than that of Obama.

"I understand and I have the knowledge and the background and the experience to make the right judgments," McCain said in the interview.

"Senator Obama does not. He was wrong on Iraq. He underestimated Iran. He has no knowledge or experience or judgment. He doesn't know how the world works nor how the military works. I do and I can lead and I'll secure the peace," McCain said.

Hours before Palin was due to give her primetime speech to the convention, McCain said that a stellar performance by his running mate would put to rest a personal and political storm raging around her.

"She is experienced, she's talented, she knows how to lead, and she has been vetted by the people of the state of Alaska," said McCain, who has been criticized for not looking deeply enough into her background.

"Americans are going to be very, very, very pleased. ... She's really going to have a remarkable impact on the American people. ... I'm very excited."

on and on it goes.....


God bless her.



Hmm.... banning books is just one step removed from book burnings. So Palin thinks there are books people shouldn't be exposed to based on her own beleifs and values?


Nazi Book Burnings 1933

Burning the 'Satanic' Harry Potter books in New Mexico.

As recent and historical memory suggests, banning books sometimes just isn't good enough for these types of people.

Today's NY Times has this blurb recounting how McCain really wanted Lieberman to be his V.P., but was blocked by his party:



The word working its way through political circles in Connecticut is that John McCain actually called Joe Lieberman to ask him to be the GOP v.p. candidate. The "ask" was made. However, a revolt ensued, led by Mitt Romney and others, threatening a floor fight. That resulted in a second call a couple hours later to Lieberman from McCain pulling the offer.

There is so much in that little anecdote if these sources are accurate. First, it shows what a tool Lieberman is. Last night, Lieberman spoke at a convention where he's actually vilified, yet he went anyway and flat out lied about Obama. More importantly, it shows what a wimp McCain is. He's supposed to fight al Qaeda, but won't stand up to the religious fanatics in his own party. Instead, McCain made an impulsive choice, Sarah Palin, who wasn't vetted. McCain couldn't have the v.p. he wanted. So, he was forced to pick someone he didn't even know. Says a lot about John McCain's willingness to gamble with America's future.

We need more details.

Palin's church also pulled the section of their website that contains past sermons. I saw an evangelical minister on MSNBC about an hour ago vilify Obama for the Rev. Wright for his sermons even as he in the same breath vilified "the left" for looking into the sermons of Palin's minister. Talk about hypocrisy of the highest order!

These fuckers are only too happy to vilify someone on account of their pastors words but hey, do that to them and it's below the belt and uncalled for!! They wrote the rules, time to take what you dish out. Palin's church also sponsors the whole ex-gay movement BTW.

I'm concerned about Palin's actions as a mayor showing interest in banning books.

on and on it goes.....


God bless her.



Hmm.... banning books is just one step removed from book burnings. So Palin thinks there are books people shouldn't be exposed to based on her own beleifs and values?


Nazi Book Burnings 1933

Burning the 'Satanic' Harry Potter books in New Mexico.

It's a clusterfuck of epic proportions.

Now it turns out Kalin's underage daughter is pregnant. This has been circulating all week now in the liberal blogosphere but tomorrow the H-Bomb drops in the New York Times. It erases any notion of McCain being this independent "Maverick" who played this one on his own "gut".

Sarah Palin delivered. An embattled vice presidential candidate, a novice on the national stage, the head of a family suffering its "ups and downs," the first-term Alaska governor rocked the GOP convention with a star-turning performance.

Wielding a stiletto and a smile, Palin belittled Democrat Barack Obama and praised her new boss, John McCain, jolting the crowd of GOP partisans.

"Don't you think we made the right choice for the next vice president of the United States!" McCain said, hinting the controversy surrounding his pick. "And what a beautiful family."

Indeed, the family was on display for the TV cameras — five children, including a 17-year-old unmarried daughter who is pregnant. Their mother lacked the soaring oratory skills of Obama — a man she attacked as a tax-raising, terrorist-coddling, self-indulgent liberal. But the former TV sportscaster spoke in calm, TV-friendly tones reminiscent of Ronald Reagan. Like the former GOP president, Palin warmed the crowd with quips and jokes.

"What's the difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull," she said, pausing for a beat and a smirk. "Lipstick."

She left the crowd smiling.

"For too many times, we've brought knives to gun fights," said Chuck Gast, a delegate from Maryland,

When asked if Palin brought a gun to the fight, Gast said: "Yes, I think she brings a big gun, like a moose gun."

It was the crowning moment of a roller-coaster week in which the first woman ever on a Republican presidential ticket has faced questions about how closely the McCain campaign scrutinized her. She also has heard a wide range of inquiries about family issues, her policy positions and her record of public service.

"Our family," she said, "has the same ups and downs as any other."

Facing down her critics with smiling resolve, Palin took crowd-delighting swipes at Obama and what she called the Washington elite. "Here's a little news flash for all those reporters and commentators: I'm not going to Washington to seek their good opinion. I'm going to Washington to serve the people of this country," she said.

A new celebrity herself, Palin cast Obama as a little more than a fancy speaker with a compelling biography.

"The American presidency is not supposed to be a journey of 'personal discovery.' This world of threats and dangers is not just a community, and it doesn't just need an organizer," Palin said, a clear reference to Obama's time as a community organizer in Chicago.

The Obama campaign had less than a warm greeting, saying Palin's speech was "written by George Bush's speechwriter and sounds exactly like the same divisive, partisan attacks we've heard from George Bush for the last eight years." The speech was written by Matthew Scully, who met Palin for the first time last week.

Selected by McCain only last Friday, Palin addressed the convention amid questions about her qualifications and relative lack of experience.

The first-term governor had top billing at the convention on a night delegates also lined up for a noisy roll call of the states to deliver their presidential nomination to McCain.

Watching her speech were her husband Todd and their children, including daughter Bristol Palin, whom the Palins disclosed earlier in the week was five months pregnant. Bristol's 18-year-old boyfriend and apparent fiance, Levi Johnston, was seated with them.

McCain shook up the presidential race by picking Palin, a little-known governor less than two years in office. Since then, a bright spotlight has been trained on the life and record of the Republican governor who has bucked the state's political establishment.

Days after Palin made her debut on the national stage with McCain, the campaign announced her unmarried daughter's pregnancy. Other disclosures followed, including that a private attorney is authorized to spend $95,000 of state money to defend her against accusations of abuse of power and that Palin sought pork-barrel projects for her city and state, contrary to her reformist image.

"Our family has the same ups and downs as any other ... the same challenges and the same joys," she said.

Noting that the couple's oldest son, Track, 19, was shipping out to Iraq in eight days with the Army infantry, Palin praised McCain as "a true profile in courage, and people like that are hard to come by."

"He's a man who wore the uniform of this country for 22 years, and refused to break faith with those troops in Iraq who have now brought victory within sight. And as the mother of one of those troops, that is exactly the kind of man I want as commander in chief," she said.

Largely unknown outside her home state, Palin told the convention: "I had the privilege of living most of my life in a small town. I was just your average hockey mom, and signed up for the PTA because I wanted to make my kids' public education better," she said, speaking of her home town of Wasilla, Alaska, with a population of about 6,500.

"When I ran for city council, I didn't need focus groups and voter profiles because I knew those voters, and knew their families, too," she said.

Before becoming governor, Palin served as mayor of Wasilla, she recounted, adding: "And since our opponents in this presidential election seem to look down on that experience, let me explain to them what the job involves. I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a 'community organizer,' except that you have actual responsibilities."

Palin delivered her speech in a firm, cheerful voice. It was her first chance to introduce and define herself to the American public and to explain to fellow Republicans how her experiences as Alaska governor would help galvanize the GOP ticket.

She strongly endorsed more oil exploration and drilling. "Our opponents say, again and again, that drilling will not solve all of America's energy problems — as if we all didn't know that already. But the fact that drilling won't solve every problem is no excuse to do nothing at all," she said.

Palin has been an aggressive advocate for drilling in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, while McCain opposes drilling there. That difference was not touched on in the speech.

I applaud Palin's firm commitment to abstinence-only sex education.

Since it obviously worked so well....