I live in a mid-size town of roughly 40,000.Each year at Christmastime in the town square,a nativity scene was set up since I can remember.This year a small group of atheists complained and the town council folded faster than Superman on laundry day.Relocating the nativity to a Presbyterian Church on the corner,they decfeed noting would be placed at the square.....period.I imagine soon there'll be no Christmas lights or tree downtown next.
so it wasn't so much a war as a minor skirmish that resulted in a relocation to a more appropriate area, aka a place of worship.
Actually it was more akin to Germany invading France...couple of shots fired and the town surrendered.Funny thing is the Nativity is only roughly 20-30 feet from where it was...just now in front of the church.Still in full view so....yeah,Does it really bother me where it sits?Not really...just,I dunno,hasn't been a problem the last 50+ years where it sat,so why now?
so it wasn't so much a war as a minor skirmish that resulted in a relocation to a more appropriate area, aka a place of worship.
Why would it be more or less appropriate where it sits? It's not as though the Nativity scene is exclusively relevant to Christianity. It's an historically relevant point in history that's directly related to the holiday and the roots of its celebration.
If it's very placement is that significant, then it would be necessary to abolish the entire holiday to make everyone shut up about being offended.
This thread is going to get really gay soon.
it's odd atheist believe their religion is to be accepted and forced upon everyone, yet a nativity scene which would have no meaning to someone who really did not believe in jesus is offensive to them.
When did the athiest movement become peta?
it's odd atheist believe their religion is to be accepted and forced upon everyone, yet a nativity scene which would have no meaning to someone who really did not believe in jesus is offensive to them.
When did the athiest movement become peta?
The atheist movement was PETA before PETA was.
I think perhaps one of the biggest fallacies behind the contemporary disbelief in God and faith in general is the organized mindset behind it. When you apply an "ism" as a means of designating your belief/disbelief in the supernatural, you are, in effect, creating a religion.
What is so difficult about saying "I don't belong to a faith," as opposed to saying, "I have faith that these groups are wrong?"
BASAMS The Plumber annoyed Moderator Just when they think they know all the answers, I change the questions.
15000+ posts 7 minutes 17 seconds ago Reading a post
Forum: Politics and Current Events
Thread: The War on Christmas hits home
This thread is going to get really gay soon.
it did indeed.
so it wasn't so much a war as a minor skirmish that resulted in a relocation to a more appropriate area, aka a place of worship.
Why would it be more or less appropriate where it sits? It's not as though the Nativity scene is exclusively relevant to Christianity. It's an historically relevant point in history that's directly related to the holiday and the roots of its celebration.
If it's very placement is that significant, then it would be necessary to abolish the entire holiday to make everyone shut up about being offended.
dunno, just my opinion that since it's more observed as a religious holiday, it should be in a religious setting as opposed to a civic one. why would banning something be the answer? banning something that offends group x is the most nonsensical idea i've heard expressed in a while.
She's all yours pariah. My standards aren't that low.
Here's what gets me,after reading the local paper,i find that the man who filed the complaint....doesn't even reside in the area.He lives about an hour away from my town.
what is bs is that the ACLU usually advertises for a complaintant. there are enough attention whores in the world someone is bound to take them up on it.
King Snarf innocent User Award-Winning Author
10000+ posts 43 seconds ago Reading a post
Forum: Politics and Current Events
Thread: The War on Christmas hits home
This thread is going to get really gay soon.
Hello!
At least you're proud of it now.
Have a Happy, Merry... Winter: Connecticut school official defends ban on religious symbols, including Christmas and Hanukkah decorations
what a horrible article.
Erik Brown, principal of Walsh Elementary School in Waterbury, Conn., has reportedly banned all religious festivities and many decorations from the classroom since arriving at the school five years ago.
Brown told the paper that
songs celebrating Christmas, Hanukkah and Kwanzaa(OMFG
) will be sung during Walsh's "Winter Celebration" on Dec. 21, and as in previous years, presents will be given to students.
so it's "banned" yet songs CELEBRATING it will be sung & PRESENTS given out?
This is not a church," Brown told the paper. "It's a school and it's a public school. I have to do things that include every child. So what we do is celebrate winter."
correct. it's a public school funded by govt monies. if you want <insert name of religion> customs/traditions taught/celebrated, spend ur own fucking money and send the kid to private school.
um you do realize government money is our fucking money? you liberals keep thinking its an independent enterprise that makes money, when in fact it is OUR fucking money.
Don't be silly bsams. Government money is money made from the post office, the DMV and other government run businesses. You silly conservatives and your hateful view of the government.
You only say that because you're my gay lover.
Bush was your gay lover first!
OHMYGOD your enjoyment and happiness with Christmas...a holiday celebrated for hundreds of years...offends my non-beliefs in nothing! How dare you force joy and comfort on me! I never got presents when I was a kid, so I think we should end it all. Don't you dare make me celebrate something positive about life!
Signed,
-Stupid Bitches of America
OHMYGOD your enjoyment and happiness with Christmas...a holiday celebrated for hundreds of years...offends my non-beliefs in nothing! How dare you force joy and comfort on me! I never got presents when I was a kid, so I think we should end it all. Don't you dare make me celebrate something positive about life!
Signed,
-Stupid Bitches of America
gee, how unsurprising you got almost everything wrong about me. i don't have 'non-beliefs', i'm a roman catholic. not born into it either, i converted to it 4yrs ago, baptized easter vigil 2007. u were right on the no presents as a kid, my parents were JW's for awhile but now, xmas is pretty much the one holiday i celebrate & care about. especially cuz it brings ppl from all walks of life together at least for one month & try to be nice to each other. hell ya, i'll celebrate that.
i never said "end it all". 1- i believe taxation is theft in the first place, so i think everyone should be in private schools. 2-the religion/non religion of ones choice can be observed in the school of ones choice. since unfortunately, most ppl are FORCED to attend public schools, they shouldn't have religion shoved down their throats. they can get that shit at home.
signed,
someone who tries not to make automatic assumptions about a person's whole value system off one opinion they hold.
um you do realize government money is our fucking money? you liberals keep thinking its an independent enterprise that makes money, when in fact it is OUR fucking money.
umm, exactly. we don't exactly have a choice how the $ taken from us by the govt is used. i don't even have kids so using my $ for teaching someone else's burden really fries me.
maybe instead of bitching about whose views are being pushed and whose aren't, we should focus on the real issue of the govt taking our money under threat of jail to financially support programs we don't agree with or want? this issue is really just a distraction from that.
ps- i like how everyone pretty much ignored that the article was bullshit and nothing was banned and everything was actually celebrated & observed. good going.
i love idiots like you, you claim your a christian then you dont want the government to force Christmas on you. if you were a christian it wouldn't be forced, it would be your choice moron.
youre more laughable than MEM at least he plagiarizes RAW, they have a consistent message.
maybe instead of bitching about whose views are being pushed and whose aren't, we should focus on the real issue of the govt taking our money under threat of jail to financially support programs we don't agree with or want?
Which is exactly the topic at hand. Drowning out all semblance of faith and religion in society is a government program when the state forces people to censor their belief system(s).
i love idiots like you, you claim your a christian then you dont want the government to force Christmas on you. if you were a christian it wouldn't be forced, it would be your choice moron.
youre more laughable than MEM at least he plagiarizes RAW, they have a consistent message.
i don't want ANY religion forced on anyone. that is a personal matter. i also don't want the govt, forcing me/others and otherwise.
maybe instead of bitching about whose views are being pushed and whose aren't, we should focus on the real issue of the govt taking our money under threat of jail to financially support programs we don't agree with or want?
Which is exactly the topic at hand. Drowning out all semblance of faith and religion in society is a government program when the state forces people to censor their belief system(s).
in the original post, the state didn't censor the belief system, they moved it to a proper venue. in the most recent article, there was no censorship. i quoted that in a previous post. they still sang xmas, chanukah & kwanzaa songs and gave out presents. what bizarro world is that censorship? where chicken little lives maybe?
state office is civic, a church is religious. observance of a religious holiday should be at the church and the line for vehicle registration should be in the civic offices.
i love idiots like you, you claim your a christian then you dont want the government to force Christmas on you. if you were a christian it wouldn't be forced, it would be your choice moron.
youre more laughable than MEM at least he plagiarizes RAW, they have a consistent message.
i don't want ANY religion forced on anyone. that is a personal matter. i also don't want the govt, forcing me/others and otherwise.
too easy.
in the original post, the state didn't censor the belief system, they moved it to a proper venue.
Deciding what is or is not appropriate to be expressed verbally or visually while in a
public venue is a form of censorship. Just because it was moved rather than trashed doesn't mean the display was any less inhibited.
This isn't a matter of separating the church and the state--it's not as if the state is adopting a religious tradition by tolerating these displays. It's a matter of free speech.
Why are all federal, state, and local government offices closed on Christmas if it's such an offensive practice?
I just don't know how I'm gonna believe in something when its not reinforced everywhere I go. What am I going to do? Think for myself and not worry about others?
King Snarf innocent User Award-Winning Author
10000+ posts 19 minutes 3 seconds ago Reading a post
Forum: Politics and Current Events
Thread: The War on Christmas hits home
i don't have 'non-beliefs', i'm a roman catholic. not born into it either, i converted to it 4yrs ago, baptized easter vigil 2007.
Then, you mis-spoke and have no actual issue with displays of Christmas anywhere, and everywhere. Otherwise, you're a hypocrite. Choose your adventure.
i don't have 'non-beliefs', i'm a roman catholic. not born into it either, i converted to it 4yrs ago, baptized easter vigil 2007.
Then, you mis-spoke and have no actual issue with displays of Christmas anywhere, and everywhere. Otherwise, you're a hypocrite. Choose your adventure.
i have no issue with xmas displays as long as it's not in a govt office, schools are part of the govt. what don't you get about my opinion? just because I chose xtianity as my religion doesn't mean i'm fine with it being pushed by a govt entity which is supposed to remain neutral.
I just don't know how I'm gonna believe in something when its not reinforced everywhere I go. What am I going to do? Think for myself and not worry about others?
jesus fucking christ, i can't believe i ttly agree with rex. maybe he's the cool one who gets it and all the rest are idiots and not the other way around.
ps- this really has blown my world apart, finding rex the voice of sanity.
I just don't know how I'm gonna believe in something when its not reinforced everywhere I go. What am I going to do? Think for myself and not worry about others?
someone said something that they believe is and since I'm a mindless zombie I will agree with that person even though it contradicts what I've said before.
i have no issue with xmas displays as long as it's not in a govt office
Then you have a problem with Xmas displays. There's no wiggle room there. Either you are for it, or against it.
just because I chose xtianity as my religion doesn't mean i'm fine with it being pushed by a govt entity
Rethink. If you have chosen a religion, then you are acceptable of its presence in your life, no matter the geographic or social location. Otherwise, it's a country club card, and has as much relevance in your life.
which is supposed to remain neutral.
The US government was founded on the principal of religious freedom. Thus, they have no right to censor religious holidays. Thus, neutrality should play no part.
King Snarf innocent User Award-Winning Author
10000+ posts 43 seconds ago Reading a post
Forum: Politics and Current Events
Thread: The War on Christmas hits home
AFLAC!
The AFLAC Duck User 200+ posts 12/07/09 09:52 PM Making a new reply
Forum: Politics and Current Events
Thread: Re: The War on Christmas hits home
BASAMS The Plumber annoyed Moderator Just when they think they know all the answers, I change the questions.
15000+ posts 7 minutes 17 seconds ago Reading a post
Forum: Politics and Current Events
Thread: The War on Christmas hits home
AFLAC!
King Snarf innocent User Award-Winning Author
10000+ posts 19 minutes 3 seconds ago Reading a post
Forum: Politics and Current Events
Thread: The War on Christmas hits home
AFLAC!
The AFLAC Duck User 200+ posts 12/07/09 09:52 PM Making a new reply
Forum: Politics and Current Events
Thread: Re: The War on Christmas hits home
AFLAC!
Yes, Virginia: There is an unnecessary war on Santa Claus.
Medical Journal: Santa Needs to Clean Up His Act: expert believes Santa Claus needs to hit the gym, saying jolly old St. Nick needs to put down the cookies and pick up the reindeers' carrots.
This thread is going to get really gay soon.
The obesity thing hit a nerve with you, didn't it?
There is a picture of a Crescent moon and star sitting not 4 ft away from a Nativity scene and Menorah about 5 blocks from my house.
I didn't realize that Ramadan was celebrated the same month as Christmas and Hanukkah.
There is a picture of a Crescent moon and star sitting not 4 ft away from a Nativity scene and Menorah about 5 blocks from my house.
I didn't realize that Ramadan was celebrated the same month as Christmas and Hanukkah.
kick it over!
in all fairness, they probably settled on the crescent moon because not everyone can recognize an improvised explosive device on sight and they didn't want the reference to go over people's heads.
Black Machismo content User Sikkbones
1000+ posts 2 minutes 53 seconds ago Reading a post
Forum: Politics and Current Events
Thread: The War on Christmas hits home
This has been covered in any number of topics here.
But to reiterate, I think it's retarded to try and exclude Christianity from any public or government displays in a nation that is unquestionably founded on Biblical principles.
And whose founders clearly felt that teaching of the Bible and biblical principles was essential to the health and survival of our democracy. And that the absence of biblical principles were the reason that every previous experiment in democracy had failed.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness...
Whether looking at the Declaration, Constitution, the writings of the founding fathers, or the addresses of most of our Presidents up till the 1960s, and often beyond then, we are clearly a nation founded on Christianity and Biblical principles, particularly a contract government that mirrors the Old and New Testament contract between God and Man.
To exclude Christianity in any way from a government with such clear Christian origins and founding principles, is in the truest sense un-American, expressing a contempt for --or at best ignorance of-- what we are and have been for over 200 years.
To prohibit the free practice of Christianity in a nation that is
79% Christian (at the
lowest estimate I've seen), is absurd, and an attempt by secularists and liberals to convert us to belief system completely opposite what we are.
Wondy, you want your beliefs validated by everyone else because you are weak. You need to latch onto things you see as strong so you can feel better about yourself. If you were a normal person you would be able to celebrate Christmas without throwing online hissy fits and throwing tantrums whenever someone doesn't agree with you.
Wondy, you want your beliefs validated by everyone else because you are weak. You need to latch onto things you see as strong so you can feel better about yourself. If you were a normal person you would be able to celebrate Christmas without throwing online hissy fits and throwing tantrums whenever someone doesn't agree with you.
Hissy fit? Tantrums?
Your relentless personal attacks on me, and obsession with what I post, manifests a torqued-up level of apoplectic emotion that my posts never approach.
I simply posted some obvious facts about Christianity and its obvious importance in forming our nation.
The hysteria and psychosis is yours, not mine. Quite obviously.
Wonder Boy
--rex's personal obsession.
There is a picture of a Crescent moon and star sitting not 4 ft away from a Nativity scene and Menorah about 5 blocks from my house.
I didn't realize that Ramadan was celebrated the same month as Christmas and Hanukkah.
in all fairness, they probably settled on the crescent moon because not everyone can recognize an improvised explosive device on sight and they didn't want the reference to go over people's heads.
I simply posted some obvious facts about Christianity and its obvious inportance in forming our nation.
You really love clinging to that, don't you? Its not true at all. I know that's what glenn beck and all your other alcoholic hero's always say but it isn't.
Why can't you just celebrate Christmas without getting upset that people don't agree with you?
I've been quoting the founding fathers for many years before I ever heard of Glenn Beck or any other conservative pundit.
And the only one getting upset here is you.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness...
Whether looking at the Declaration, Constitution, the writings of the founding fathers, or the addresses of most of our Presidents up till the 1960s, and often beyond then, we are clearly a nation founded on Christianity and Biblical principles, particularly a contract government that mirrors the Old and New Testament contract between God and Man.
To exclude Christianity in any way from a government with such clear Christian origins and founding principles, is in the truest sense un-American, expressing a contempt for --or at best ignorance of-- what we are and have been for over 200 years.
To prohibit the free practice of Christianity in a nation that is
79% Christian (at the
lowest estimate I've seen), is absurd, and an attempt by secularists and liberals to convert us to belief system completely opposite what we are.
Black Machismo content User Sikkbones
1000+ posts 2 minutes 53 seconds ago Reading a post
Forum: Politics and Current Events
Thread: The War on Christmas hits home
AFLAC!
i have no issue with xmas displays as long as it's not in a govt office
Then you have a problem with Xmas displays. There's no wiggle room there. Either you are for it, or against it.
just because I chose xtianity as my religion doesn't mean i'm fine with it being pushed by a govt entity
Rethink. If you have chosen a religion, then you are acceptable of its presence in your life, no matter the geographic or social location. Otherwise, it's a country club card, and has as much relevance in your life.
which is supposed to remain neutral.
The US government was founded on the principal of religious freedom. Thus, they have no right to censor religious holidays. Thus, neutrality should play no part.
brilliant logic. following it, since i'm ok with sex, i should find it acceptable no matter the geographic or social location.
my chosen religion is just that - MINE. i don't need other ppl to recognize the important dates within it for validation.
religious holidays are not being censored by the govt. neutrality should be practiced on the part of the govt. by allowing private citizens, businesses & places of worship to observe religious holidays they are allowing religious freedom. when the govt takes it upon themselves to observe a particular religion's traditions, they are sending the message that it is govt sponsored.
brilliant logic. following it, since i'm ok with sex, i should find it acceptable no matter the geographic or social location.
A) Yes.
B) You don't worship sex, and give yourself over to its ideals and followings as your guiding path in life (or do you?). Please attempt to recognize the obvious and inherent difference in your failed comparison. Try again.
my chosen religion is just that - MINE. i don't need other ppl to recognize the important dates within it for validation.
But, since it is "YOUR" religion (why are we shouting?), and you have accepted it as your designated spiritual definition, you have no problems with others wishing to see it on display, correct? Your religion could not possibly offend you. Right?
religious holidays are not being censored by the govt.
Then why isn't a nativity scene allowed on city property? Why is the Atheistic Religion being allowed dominance?
neutrality should be practiced on the part of the govt. by allowing private citizens, businesses & places of worship to observe religious holidays they are allowing religious freedom. when the govt takes it upon themselves to observe a particular religion's traditions, they are sending the message that it is govt sponsored.
But, if they are sponsoring Aethism, then they are departing from the foundations of the American essence. Religious Freedom. Ergo, the censorship of Christianity.
In quite another twist,the gentleman who started this ruckus is now planning on suing the boro on behalf of thr PA Atheist Legion of Doom because they aren't allowing them to put up their winter solstice sign(point of fact here,the boro isn't allowing anything but the American flag and some flowers in the square now).Now mind you,these people don't reside in the county,pay a local tax or have anything to do with our local govt. in any way shape or form so hopefully,this gets thrown out and they're put in their place.They can't shout religious freedom because atheism isn't a religion...it's a dis-belief in any religion.Quite frankly,they should be thanking those of us that do.These people are getting a day off for something they don't even celebrate.Put 'em to work I say!!It's just another day to them right?
White House Christmas Decor Featuring Mao Comes Under Fire: Critics of President Obama are setting their sights on the official White House Christmas Tree, which features controversial ornaments including an orb depicting Mao Zedong and another showing drag queen Hedda Lettuce.
It's getting harder and harder for this administration to hide its true colors.
...and harder and harder for The Right to find one more thing to become absurd over. What next? Obama orders Chinese food, so FOXentertainment reports he's actually a Chinese spy?
Its really sad when fox and their fan boys go after obamas trivial things instead of his real shortcomings. If they would concentrate on the real problems they would be more believable.
Agreed, Rex! The dude is not perfect, so report that. Don't waste our time with gossip-nonsense...
the drag queen is trivial of no importance(the one on the tree not g-man). but dont you think having Mao on your tree is a bit odd? Mao is by most historical accounts responsible for the deaths of around 60 million people. this would be akin to putting a Hitler on the tree. still not a crime but it does speak of who your heroes are.
dont you think having Mao on your tree is a bit odd? Mao is by most historical accounts responsible for the deaths of around 60 million people. this would be akin to putting a Hitler on the tree. still not a crime but it does speak of who your heroes are.
Exactly. And this isn't the flrst time Obama and/or people in his administration have expressed admiration for Mao and/or communist China.
It's a silly story. The White House had a bunch of local community groups decorate hundreds of christmas balls. They didn't make any request to have that image decopaged onto one of them and probably didn't even know about it.
so you're okay with chairman mao on a christmas ornament, basically.
It's a silly story. The White House had a bunch of local community groups decorate hundreds of christmas balls. They didn't make any request to have that image decopaged onto one of them and probably didn't even know about it.
would that be excusable if it was hitler?
It was probably some glenn beck fan that decorated the ornament.
is this how its going to be from now on?
Merry Christmas and a happy new year!
Furor Erupts Over Atheist Display At State Capitol
Comptroller Candidate William J. Kelly Tries To Take Down Sign, Is Escorted From BuildingSPRINGFIELD, Ill. (CBS) ― Click to enlarge1 of 1
A conservative activist and Illinois comptroller candidate was escorted from the Illinois State Capitol building Wednesday when he tried to remove a sign put up by an atheist group.
William J. Kelly announced Tuesday that he planned to take down the sign put up by the Freedom from Religion Foundation, and on Wednesday, he tried to make good on his plan.
But Kelly said when he turned the sign around so it was face down, state Capitol police were quick to escort him away.
Illinois Secretary of State's office spokeswoman Henry Haupt said Kelly was escorted from the rotunda by state Capitol police, who briefly detained him, wrote an incident report, and directed him to leave the building.
"It doesn't matter how we feel about the message on a display," Haupt said. "Our obligation is to protect the property within the state Capitol building, and we would do the same for any other display."
But Kelly called the sign "hate speech," and said he does not believe it is appropriate for a sign that "mocks" religion to be placed next to a Christmas tree and also near a nativity scene.
"I don't think the State of Illinois has any business denigrating or mocking any religion," Kelly said, "and I think that's what the verbiage on the sign was doing."
The sign reads: "At the time of the winter solstice, let reason prevail. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is just myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds."
The sign was also on display at the Capitol at this time last year. The group says it filed for a permit to post the display in response to the state's decision to put up the nativity.
But Kelly said he believes the problem is not only the verbiage of the sign, but also its proximity to the Christmas tree.
"The fact that sign was immediately in front of the tree, I found that to be disturbing because any family and any child would run up to that tree with a smile on their face, and they would immediately see that sign," Kelly said.
Haupt said Kelly had been advised not to return to the state Capitol for the rest of the day on Wednesday.
The Madison, Wis.-based Freedom from Religion Foundation has placed the sign in several state Capitol buildings across the country.
As to Kelly's claims that the sign mocks religion, foundation co-President Dan Barker said: "He's kind of right, because the last couple of sentences do criticize religion, and of course, the beginning is a celebration of the winter solstice. But that kind of speech is protected as well – speech that is critical and speech that is supportive."
The foundation does not approve of the nativity scene, Barker said.
"We atheists believe that the nativity scene is mocking humanity," by suggesting that those who do not believe in Jesus will go to hell, Barker said. "But notice that we are not defacing or stealing nativity scenes because we disagree with their speech."
Signs in other states have been targets of vandals, Barker said.
In Wisconsin, someone threw acid on it one year, and some people turned it around and hid it in the back rooms of the state Capitol, and in Washington state, someone walked it out of the Capitol and threw it away, Barker said. The Washington state sign was later found in a ditch near a country radio station and returned to the capitol in Olympia.
This is the second year the Freedom from Religion sign has been at the Illinois State Capitol.
Haupt said in addition to the sign, the Nativity Scene and the Christmas tree, there is also a Soldiers' Angels wreath, and a tabletop display from the American Civil Liberties Union that says the group "defends freedom of religion." A Hanukkah menorah had also been on display until the Jewish Festival of Lights ended on Saturday.
For the second year in a row, the Capitol also has an aluminum Festivus pole commemorating the fictional holiday created in "Seinfeld."
Adam Harrington, cbs2chicago.com
cbs2chicago.com Somebody at work put up a festivus pole.