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And, on the other side of the spectrum...the video: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/
If karma's a bitch, it will be my bitch!
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Quote:
sharnofshade said:
By killing Saddam, we as a global people have made a mockery of disapproving of murder on ANY scale.
---
And also: I use the same argument against people supporting the death penalty as I do against people who are cruel to animals. I don't trust people who are cruel to animals not to be cruel to people too. And I will not ever trust a government or people who allow the murder of 'criminals' not to turn that mind-set on the innocent and the different and the weak. You might think that Saddam 'deserved' to die. But remember that now, right this second, there are people who believe that blacks 'deserve' to die. That gays 'deserve' to die. That anyone who does drugs 'deserves' to die. You can try to get into the nitty gritty of what makes one 'deserving' of death. Or you can realise that killing people is wrong, and that not being repelled by the idea of someone, ANYONE being killed, is an unhealthy and inefficient mindset.
Klinton, it's disappointing to see you post such soft-headed crap.
Please don't do it again.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Quote:
sharnofshade said:
By killing Saddam, we as a global people have made a mockery of disapproving of murder on ANY scale.
---
And also: I use the same argument against people supporting the death penalty as I do against people who are cruel to animals. I don't trust people who are cruel to animals not to be cruel to people too. And I will not ever trust a government or people who allow the murder of 'criminals' not to turn that mind-set on the innocent and the different and the weak. You might think that Saddam 'deserved' to die. But remember that now, right this second, there are people who believe that blacks 'deserve' to die. That gays 'deserve' to die. That anyone who does drugs 'deserves' to die. You can try to get into the nitty gritty of what makes one 'deserving' of death. Or you can realise that killing people is wrong, and that not being repelled by the idea of someone, ANYONE being killed, is an unhealthy and inefficient mindset.
Klinton, it's disappointing to see you post such soft-headed crap.
Please don't do it again.
besides, there's a big difference between blacks, jews, drug abusers, whomever else the fellow mentioned and Saddam.
And besides, there's nothing unhealthy and ineffecient about not being repelled by someone being killed. It's simply being human.
Saddam lived by the philosophy "Might makes right" He was powerful, and he used that power to do whatever he wanted. He ordered the death and torture of thousands. He engineered wars that would serve his purpose. It wasn't until he was faced with greater force that he "seemingly" recanted his previous ways and suddenly became a man of religion and peace.
Saddam has faced the consequences of his own actions, he deserved to die.
 Racks be to MisterJLA
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Quote:
Wonder Boy said:
Alcatraz was arguably the most secure prison ever built, but prisoners escaped from there too. While they're alive, and there's a will to escape, they'll eventually scout out a weak link in even the most secure of chains.
1) Alcatraz did not have any of the modern surveilance equipment we have today, so modern prisons can be a lot more secure if people wanna make it that way!
2)And nobody knows if the handful of Alcatraz escapees survived, so thats not really a great example!
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Quote:
Chant said:
Quote:
Pariah said:
Quote:
sharnofshade said:
By killing Saddam, we as a global people have made a mockery of disapproving of murder on ANY scale.
---
And also: I use the same argument against people supporting the death penalty as I do against people who are cruel to animals. I don't trust people who are cruel to animals not to be cruel to people too. And I will not ever trust a government or people who allow the murder of 'criminals' not to turn that mind-set on the innocent and the different and the weak. You might think that Saddam 'deserved' to die. But remember that now, right this second, there are people who believe that blacks 'deserve' to die. That gays 'deserve' to die. That anyone who does drugs 'deserves' to die. You can try to get into the nitty gritty of what makes one 'deserving' of death. Or you can realise that killing people is wrong, and that not being repelled by the idea of someone, ANYONE being killed, is an unhealthy and inefficient mindset.
Klinton, it's disappointing to see you post such soft-headed crap.
Please don't do it again.
besides, there's a big difference between blacks, jews, drug abusers, whomever else the fellow mentioned and Saddam.
And besides, there's nothing unhealthy and ineffecient about not being repelled by someone being killed. It's simply being human.
Saddam lived by the philosophy "Might makes right" He was powerful, and he used that power to do whatever he wanted. He ordered the death and torture of thousands. He engineered wars that would serve his purpose. It wasn't until he was faced with greater force that he "seemingly" recanted his previous ways and suddenly became a man of religion and peace.
Saddam has faced the consequences of his own actions, he deserved to die.
I enjoy how we counter arguments about who deserves or doesn't deserve to die with arguments about who deserves or doesn't deserve to die. Philosophically and logically, there are two feasible cut-and-dried conclusions. One, nobody deserves to die. Two, everybody deserves to die. Most everyone would choose some sort of middle ground, some-do-some-don't stance, but really all that boils down to is that the question of who deserves to die is totally immaterial. Guess what? We're all gonna die. It makes no sense to use "_________ had it coming" or "_________ didn't deserve that" as moral justifications to a logical decision.
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Quote:
Wonder Boy said:
My point is clear enough, whether or not you choose to acknowledge it: This guy's life is destroyed, regardless of the fact that he's been released. Life in prison, or the death penalty, his life is destroyed. He's now incapable of having a career. And exonerating him at this point doesn't free him of HIV or give him his life back.
No, it doesn't necessarily destroy his life. As long as there's life, it's possible to rebuild. You know how the cliche goes. The only way to take away that possibility forever is by killing them.
Personally, if I was wrongly convicted I'd like to decide by myself wether my life is ruined or not.
Take that Hurricane dude. He was in prison for, what? Like a decade? When he was cleared he settled and had a normal life. I think he was part of an organization to help the wrongly convicted until recently.
What a silly argument, man. Really. "He can't get a job!" What if he's exonarated? "Well, um, he has AIDS! Obviously!"
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It's like asking someone if they'd rather freeze to death or burn to death. Well, either one is about as terrible.
No, it's like asking someone wether they'd like to burn to death or burn half to death. The difference is abysmal.
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My point is, the option of being set free after false imprisonment isn't exactly making this guy's day. You and rex, and MEM are saying that reversing a false conviction gives a person their life back. My point is that: no, it doesn't. And for some, that might be a fate equal to or worse than the death penalty.
For some, it might be. For others, it might not. It's simply ridiculous to use this as an argument in favor of death penalty, saying they would have lost their lives anyway if they hadn't been killed (!). If anything, it's a small comfort for when people are cleared after they were executed. In no way is it an argument for continuing to kill more people.
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But hey, thanks for the Jennifer Connolly photo.
You're welcome. See, Pariah, this is called being polite.
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Quote:
Wonder Boy said:
It's like asking someone if they'd rather freeze to death or burn to death. Well, either one is about as terrible.
Incorrect. I have heard that, when one freezes to death, it is bad.. to a point, then, as your blood moves away from your extremities and into your brain, you cease to feel anything.. and then, you expire.
I was in a situation where I did come close to freezing to death. It did not feel so bad after a while. I just shivered a lot.
Burning to death is horrible. Ever gotten a bad burn, or even a minor one while cooking? I have. Now, imagine that, only ALL over your body, and a million times worse.
I am not the analogy police, but this was a poor comparison. You can do better, Dave. 
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok. 
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Quote:
Nowhereman said:
1) Alcatraz did not have any of the modern surveilance equipment we have today, so modern prisons can be a lot more secure if people wanna make it that way!
When more people break out more future state of the art holding cells, is this still going to be your tune?
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Im Not Mister Mxypltk said:
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But hey, thanks for the Jennifer Connolly photo.
You're welcome. See, Pariah, this is called being polite.
Mxy, how can you expect me to be polite when you won't even join my ticket?
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Quote:
Nowhereman said:
1) Alcatraz did not have any of the modern surveilance equipment we have today, so modern prisons can be a lot more secure if people wanna make it that way!
When more people break out more future state of the art holding cells, is this still going to be your tune?
So you really think that a modern prison with cameras & all sorts or sensors can really be compared to an antique like Alcatraz?
The point is that all the stuff we have available in this day and age & the governments (yes I am talking about my country as well, not just attacking the US) feel it is not important enough to spend money on making sure our prisons have more secure.
They would rather spend money on sending people into space or building weapons rather than making sure murderers & rapists stay behind bars!
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As noted above, I can see legitimate arguments against the death penalty in general.
I would respectfully dispute, however, the idea that killing him somehow makes him more a martyr than if he received life in prison.
Over the years, in America and elsewhere, people have been sentenced to life in prison and then glamorized into "causes celebre," rightly or wrongly.
Who's to say, for example, that a group of misguided (or corrupt) Iraqis wouldn't make Saddam into that nations' twisted version of Nelson Mandela, and devote their lives to a revolution to restore him to power?
Furthermore, as part of that cult of personality, its not uncommon for criminals to be able to develop contacts while in prison to help them carry out further mischief. Look at, for example, that blind cleric in the US who's lawyer was helping him promote terrorism. Or consider Scott Peterson getting marriage proposals while behind bars.
No, in the long run, its better for Iraq that Saddam was tried and executed. The last thing they, or we, needed was him trying to usher a comeback from behind bars.
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Quote:
Nowhereman said:
Quote:
Pariah said:
Quote:
Nowhereman said:
1) Alcatraz did not have any of the modern surveilance equipment we have today, so modern prisons can be a lot more secure if people wanna make it that way!
When more people break out more future state of the art holding cells, is this still going to be your tune?
So you really think that a modern prison with cameras & all sorts or sensors can really be compared to an antique like Alcatraz?
The point is that all the stuff we have available in this day and age & the governments (yes I am talking about my country as well, not just attacking the US) feel it is not important enough to spend money on making sure our prisons have more secure.
They would rather spend money on sending people into space or building weapons rather than making sure murderers & rapists stay behind bars!
How about this compromise : Establish a penal colony on the moon. Thus, the money would be spent both on space and on making sure murderers and rapists stay in prison.
I mean, where are the bastards going to escape to on the moon? It has no atmosphere, and they'd need to commandeer a rocket to go back to Earth, which can be made to be highly unlikely.
A book was written about this possibility :
" The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress ", by Robert Heinlein.
Very good book, btw.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Now you're just being silly, Jerry.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Mxy, how can you expect me to be polite when you won't even join my ticket?
But I like girls!
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Quote:
rex said:
It would still be a problem with prison security.
You're absolutly right. It IS a problem with prison security and Prison security varies depending on funding the ability to corrupt the system with money etc... All and all teh prison security can be bypassed in some cases by murderers. You know what they can't overcome? Death.
Someone else mentioned them being imprisoned with thier peers as being punishment enough. That works with molesters and to a lesser degree rapists, but murderers are at the top of the prison food chain. They recieve a level or respect and honor. Among the prison "tribe" they are the chiefs some could agrue that they get exactly what they want in prison. In prison they're free to kill and rape other inmates. Take for example a car thief, he's going to be in the same prison with the murderers where he'll most likely be abused and raped by th same.
I think the worlds focus has come to the point where we lean way too hard in teh direction of protecting criminals rather than protecting victims. here in Washington the (guess wich way they lean politically) Supreme court decided that anyone who murdered someone, but the victim died in an ambulance or the hospital rather than immediately, should have thier convictions overturned. So the thugs who beat a guy to death in the middle of the street durring Mardi Gras and teh Step father who beat his 3 year old stepson to death are back on the streets along with many more who fit the same profile. This wouldn't be an issue if these people were removed from the equaion shortly after being found guilty of murder
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
" I know God exists because WBAM told me so. " - theory9
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www.getfirefox.comAutomatic spell check.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
Guess what? We're all gonna die.
By that account, doing anything at all is irrelevant, because we're all going to die eventually, and everything we've ever worked for is going to have been for nothing.
But sure, there are people who will be able to enjoy the fruits of our labour after we die. As is the same with Saddam's execution. Those who has been wronged by him, imprisoned by him, tortured by him and killed by him can now rest easy as he has faced justice for his actions.
Sure, it's not really going to matter to those who are already dead, but I think you know what I mean
Racks be to MisterJLA
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Quote:
rex said:
www.getfirefox.com
Automatic spell check.
www.monster.com
I really don't care.
Quote:
Job Title: Proofreader
Primary Skills: Typing Skills; Basic computer skills
Job Industry: Miscellaneous
Vacancies: 1
Job City: Harbor City
Job Metro Area: Harbor City
Job State: CA
Job Country: US
Salary: $10/HOURLY To $10/HOURLY
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Start Date: ASAP
Job Duration: Contract to Direct
Detailed Job Duration: NA
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Last edited by wannabuyamonkey; 2007-01-01 7:10 AM.
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November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Quote:
rex really said:
Lonely. So Lonely.
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how do any of you feel about the apparent humiliation of Saddam just prior to his execution?
I for one think it's uncalled for and totally unacceptable.
Sure, basically evil dictator, but still a man about to die. Executing him may or may not have been the right thing to do. But I still can't accept that there were those who would humilitate a condemned man like that, ruthless ex-dictator or not.
Racks be to MisterJLA
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Quote:
Chant said:
how do any of you feel about the apparent humiliation of Saddam just prior to his execution?
I for one think it's uncalled for and totally unacceptable.
Sure, basically evil dictator, but still a man about to die. Executing him may or may not have been the right thing to do. But I still can't accept that there were those who would humilitate a condemned man like that, ruthless ex-dictator or not.
I'm sorry if this sounds snarky, but when considering the man killed hundreds of thousands of people tortured and raped women and had thier families killed when they protested are you saying it's a grave injustice that some people tried to hurt his feelings before hanging him? This is what I call misplaced outrage.
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I have to agree with WBAM here...I mean, come on, with all the evil things he did to the people of Iraq, how can anyone care overmuch about hurting Saddam's feelings?
If he had been executed 2,000 years ago, he'd most likely have been nailed to a cross and taken a few days to die....and have been laughed at and made fun of the whole time till he finally expired.
The bastard got off easy, IMO.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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I'm not saying it's a grave injustice. I just can't get behind and support the humiliation of a man, ANY man who's about to be executed!
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Quote:
The bastard got off easy, IMO.
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Quote:
Chant said:
I'm not saying it's a grave injustice. I just can't get behind and support the humiliation of a man, ANY man who's about to be executed!
I think that's easy for you to say because you haven't met with severe oppression and tyranny. I can't say what happened was classy, but I can't fault the Iraqi people for doing it either.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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PBS News Hour, January 1, 2007
This panel discussion gives some interesting insights into the political and symbolic value and detriment of Saddam Hussein's execution:
[Reporter/moderator] RAY SUAREZ: But yesterday, another video surfaced via the Internet, apparently captured on the camera cell phone of a witness. These images are blurred and shaky. The pictures and sounds reveal the chaos of Saddam's final moments.
As he's moved into position, the Shiite guards taunt Saddam, a Sunni, with sectarian slogans.
ARAB VOICE: "Muqtada ! MuqTada ! Muqtada !...
1) SLOGANS AT SADDAM'S EXECUTION MANIFEST WHO IS THE TRUE POLITICAL POWER IN IRAQ
RAY SUAREZ: Professor Dawisha, what about the status of the Maliki government? The prime minister confidently said, after the sentence was pronounced earlier in 2006, that Saddam would not live to see 2007. He cleared the paper roadblocks; he cleared the security roadblocks, made sure that it happened this weekend.
Is that a message to the country that this government is in control?
ADEED DAWISHA: You know, the government will be seen as being in control when it actually deals with the real problems of Iraq, when it deals with its own problems: rampant corruption amongst its ministries; the infiltration of the militia into its security agencies.
You notice that, for example, in that video, nobody shouted the name of Maliki. They were shouting the name of "Muqtada, Muqtada, Muqtada." That should tell you something about the condition of the government of Nouri al-Maliki.
2) THE HASTE OF SADDAM'S EXECUTION UNDERCUT THE PERCEPTION OF DEMOCRATIC AND LEGITIMATE IRAQI GOVERNMENT AUTHORITY
THABIT ABDULLAH: I agree with what Professor Dawisha said. In fact, when I spoke to friends and relatives shortly after the execution, they were rather resigned.
Many of them who had, and myself included, waited all their lives to see the end of this regime, their joy was rather subdued, because the real matters at hand was the insecurity, the lack of electricity, the corruption, as Professor Dawisha said, and these are the issues that will ultimately make or break the government.
I should mention one other thing: It was rather depressing, also, to see the manner and the haste with which the execution took place. The fact that it took place in such haste gave the impression that, in fact, these were Shia militias who were executing this individual who represented the Sunnis.
And I think this is a terrible mixing and muddling of the whole legacy of Saddam. Saddam's regime was not necessarily a Sunni versus a Shia regime. It was rather a heinous dictatorship that targeted first and foremost the secular democratic forces in Iraq and, in fact, repressed Sunnis with as much severity.
But the way in which the execution took place, with the shouting of slogans, not only of Muqtada but also al-Hakim's name was mentioned there, gives the impression that, in fact, these are Shias out for revenge, and this is what a lot of Sunnis, who are not necessarily pro-Saddam, are extremely fearful of.
3) THE HASTY EXECUTION MISSED THE OPPORTUNITY TO COMPLETELY SHOWCASE THE FULL SCOPE OF SADDAM'S GENOCIDE, AND ALSO SHORTCHANGED THE KURDS OF THEIR DAY OF JUSTICE.
THABIT ABDULLAH: ...But the execution should have -- I don't see why it had to take place during the Islamic holiday. I don't understand why it had to take place with such haste.
The Kurdish population and the Kurdish parties are upset because the second trial that dealt with the Anfal campaign, which killed nearly 200,000 Kurds, is now cut short, or at least the most important element is removed from it.
There are many other issues which could have been dealt with much better had this not taken place under such chaotic and hasteful circumstances.
On the plus side, Saddam is dead, like his sons. Saddam's possible return to power is no longer a rallying cause. There is no rightful heir or leader for all the various resistance factions to collectively rally around.
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Quote:
thedoctor said:
Quote:
Chant said:
I'm not saying it's a grave injustice. I just can't get behind and support the humiliation of a man, ANY man who's about to be executed!
I think that's easy for you to say because you haven't met with severe oppression and tyranny. I can't say what happened was classy, but I can't fault the Iraqi people for doing it either.
And I think you're partially right. I'm not really blaming them either. I can understand why they would want to see him humiliated before he dies. As a sort of revenge.
And I've said this before. His crimes does not really justify ours.
It would, in my opinion, have been better if he had been allowed to die with what little dignity he had left.
Humiliating a man who's about to be executed or supporting the humiliation? We're supposed to be better than that!
Racks be to MisterJLA
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6225337.stm Quote:
Mobile phone captures Iraq's cruelty
The phone camera footage of Saddam Hussein's execution may prove to be the most controversial media disclosure from Iraq since snapshots of US guards abusing prisoners inside Abu Ghraib were published in 2004.
While those pictures were revealed in the US media, the Saddam video appears to have been a purely Iraqi affair.
As foreign news organisations downloaded it from the internet, it was already being swapped among ordinary Iraqis on their mobile phones.
The Iraqi government's own, edited version, was undermined by the ugly audio of the shouted sectarian Shia slogans.
The mobile phone, that symbol of freedom and independence, had come into its own in Iraq in the most dramatic way.
Alarming images
For many outsiders, one of the most graphic horrors of the Iraqi conflict has been the posting of beheading videos on the internet but, within the country, interactive communications rest on the phone, not the web.
Just 0.1% of a population of nearly 27 million has web access, according to a 2006 estimate published by Internet World Stats. By contrast, neighbouring Iran has about 100 times as many, it says.
Meanwhile, websites like YouTube and Ogrish.com positively teem with clips posted by US soldiers of their service in Iraq.
Officially, the US military confines its monitoring to scouring blogs for factual inaccuracies but there is also concern about some of the videos and stills appearing, a US military public affairs officer in Iraq told the BBC last year.
Such material, he said, might be used by America's enemies to portray US soldiers as "barbaric warmongers".
It appears that Iraq's government was similarly concerned about how the execution of Saddam would be portrayed.
"Before we went into the room we had an agreement that no-one should bring a mobile phone," Sami al-Askari, an adviser to Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki, said afterwards.
Execution for sale
Phones are what Iraqis now have in relative abundance: since the 2003 invasion, the number of handsets has gone from 1.2m land lines to 4.6m land and mobile lines, according to the US government.
"The new handsets are reliable and widely affordable," Amer al-Harky, a 25-year-old doctor in the Iraqi Kurdish city of Irbil, told the BBC News website.
After the February 2006 attack on the Shia shrine in Samarra, staff at the BBC bureau in Baghdad noted a surge in gory video of the conflict being swapped between mobile phones.
One clip, for instance, showed what appeared to be Shia gunmen killing a Sunni man.
On the day after Saddam's hanging, a trader in a Shia part of Baghdad told AFP news agency that his mobile phone shop was selling the gallows phone camera footage for 500 dinars (40 US cents) a time.
And for those without a mobile, video of Iraq's death squads and their victims is available to buy on DVD.
"The DVDs are not openly on sale but you can go to certain shops and buy these things for less than one US dollar," says Dr Harky.
Simon Henderson of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, who has written a biography of Saddam, recalls that "horrific" footage of political suspects being tortured under Saddam's rule was sold on tapes or DVDs in the streets after he was overthrown.
'Inexperience'
Given the interest in Saddam's own execution, how could the Iraqi authorities and their US allies have allowed a camera to enter the gallows room along with the official one?
US-based media analyst Danny Schechter, who describes the execution as a "colonial hanging", believes it was a "unique example of a total screw-up", coming after what he describes as a long procession of miscalculations by the Iraqi and US authorities.
Its handling, he said, showed a refusal to listen to advice and a willingness to risk sectarian violence in Iraq.
However, concealed cameras at executions are nothing new, US strategy analyst Anthony Cordesman of the Centre for Strategic and International Studies says.
"This is not something that governments are likely to prevent unless they have great experience and certainly this government obviously didn't," he told the BBC News website, recalling how a US reporter secretly photographed an execution in 1928 with a camera strapped to his ankle.
Mr Cordesman points out that the execution had to be conducted at short notice in a way where it "could not become the subject of terrorism, there couldn't be rescue attempts and witnesses had to be rushed in with very little preparation".
"This is wartime, it is a situation where the Iraqi government is in considerable disarray and you are operating in a region where Western standards, to put it mildly, don't apply," he says.
Simon Henderson suggests that the desire of some Iraqis to see footage of Saddam's execution owes much to the brutalisation of society under his rule.
This, after all, was a man who used to take his own sons Uday and Qusay to witness torture sessions.
I realize, of course, that western standards do not apply in the middle-east. Different people, different culture. We all know that.
And I am in no way opposed to Saddam's execution. He deserved to pay for his crimes and now he has.
But you will never convince me that it's right to humiliate a man, any man who's about to be executed.
That just doesn't sit right with me.
But then again, different nation, different people, different culture. And the standards we're supposed to uphold here in western world don't apply.
Racks be to MisterJLA
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Timelord. Drunkard. 15000+ posts
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Quote:
Chant said:
But then again, different nation, different people, different culture. And the standards we're supposed to uphold here in western world don't apply.
Essentially, that's the crux of it all right there with little exception (I'll point to the death of Mussolini). You've got a culture that is steeped in violence. They're going to react differently than we are in this situation.
And we could, of course, keep arguing the point for a myriad of directions. Some could argue that it is a sort of poetic justice that Saddam was denied the dignity that his victims were denied at their deaths. Others could continue with the morality of a death sentence to begin with. The fact is that it wasn't us or any other Western country. The Iraqis did it. It was their government and their people. The decision was theirs to make and to follow through on. I don't have to like it or support it. Then again, I didn't have to live under Saddam's rule.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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But is it the Iraqi people ?
I heard a report that I can't seem to confirm with a link, that Muqtada al-Sadr is claiming that his men executed Saddam Hussein, not the Iraqi government.
I suspect that's not true, but he is projecting that perception, and widespread fear in the Sunni population.
If al-Sadr's men killed Hussein, then it was ethnic cleansing, and not a legitimate war crimes trial and execution. And if that is not true, but still the widely held perception, then the impact on Iraq's democratic authority is largely the same.
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brutally Kamphausened 15000+ posts
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If anyone cares, here's Wikipedia's overview of the execution of Saddam, its impact in Iraq, reaction by human rights groups, and endorsement and condemnation of the execution by nations across the globe.
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I walk in eternity 15000+ posts
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Several Boys Die Copying Saddam Hanging
By ANNA JOHNSON, Associated Press Writer
1 hour ago
CAIRO, Egypt - The boys' deaths _ scattered in the United States, in Yemen, in Turkey and elsewhere in seemingly isolated horror _ had one thing in common: They hanged themselves after watching televised images of Saddam Hussein's execution.
Officials and relatives say the children appeared to be mimicking the former dictator's Dec. 30 hanging, shown both on a sanitized Iraqi government tape and explicit clandestine videos that popped up on Web sites and some TV channels.
The leaked videos, apparently taken by cell phone cameras, set off international outrage over the raucous scene at Saddam's execution, but some experts are more concerned about the images of the deposed Iraqi leader dropping through the gallows floor and his body swinging at the end of a rope.
The experts say such graphic images can severely affect youngsters who do not yet understand the consequences of death and violence _ especially because Saddam's death received intense international attention.
"They see how it's done, but they don't think it's horrific, and they're more likely to imitate it," said Hisham Ramy, an associate professor of psychiatry at Ain Shams University in Cairo.
A day after Saddam's execution, a 10-year-old boy in Texas hanged himself from a bunk bed after watching a news report on the execution. Police in the Houston suburb of Webster said the boy, Sergio Pelico, tied a slipknot around his neck while on the bed but had not mean to kill himself.
"I don't think he thought it was real," Julio Gustavo, Sergio's uncle, said afterward. "They showed them putting the noose around his neck and everything. Why show that on TV?"
Something similar occurred in Turkey, where 12-year-old Alisen Akti hanged himself Wednesday from a bunk bed after watching TV footage. His father, Esat Akti, told a newspaper in the southeastern province of Mus that his son had been affected by the televised images.
"After watching Saddam's execution he was constantly asking 'How was Saddam killed?' and 'Did he suffer?'" Akti was quoted as saying. "These television images are responsible for my son's death."
Nine-year-old Mubassahr Ali, from the eastern Pakistan town of Rahim Yar Khan, died hours after Saddam when he also mimicked the ousted leader's execution, local police official Sultan Ahmed Chaudhry said.
"The ill-fated boy used a long piece of cloth, tied it with a ceiling fan and wrapped its other end around his neck. Then he stood on a chair and fell down," Chaudhry said.
In Yemen, at least two young boys died and another was injured in apparent imitations of Saddam's hanging.
One of the cases involved a 13-year-old junior high school student who hanged himself after watching Saddam's execution on television, a Yemeni security official said.
When the boy's family returned to their home outside the capital, San'a, on Wednesday, they found him hanging from a tree wearing a traditional Arab headdress, said the boy's cousin, Yahya al-Hammadi.
In Saudi Arabia, a 12-year-old boy was found by his brother hanging from an iron door with a rope around his neck, the newspaper Okaz reported. The boy, Sultan Abdullah al-Shemmeri, lived with his family in the province of Hafr al-Baten, near the Iraqi border.
"The child was just 12 years old and didn't really know whether the execution of Saddam was something good or bad," a Saudi Interior Ministry official said Saturday. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the press.
Local media in Algeria and India also have reported other mimicking deaths, but these could not immediately be confirmed.
Ramy, the professor in Egypt, said children are prone to imitating violence they encounter on television, the Internet and movies, but usually they act out against another person. Mimicking a hanging or suicide is unusual, but perhaps in this case it is unsurprising, he said.
Because "some people have said Saddam is a hero and martyr and have glorified his death, this has affected children," Ramy said.
But Jasem Hajia, a child psychologist in Kuwait City, cautioned against placing all the blame on video images. "This is extreme, and I think there were physiological disorders as well with the children," Hajia said.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Who will I break next? 15000+ posts
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November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Kisser Of John Byrne Ass 15000+ posts
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Kisser Of John Byrne Ass 15000+ posts
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yeah, at 10 or older you are just idiotic to do that stuff without the intent of committing suicide... I agree with Rex-Darwin wins...
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Hip To Be Square 15000+ posts
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Hip To Be Square 15000+ posts
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At least the world is spared further idiocy from them!
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Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
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 " Dope On a Rope:Toy company president defends action figure depicting Saddam's execution"
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Joined: May 2003
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I walk in eternity 15000+ posts
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Quote:
the G-man said:
"Dope On a Rope:Toy company president defends action figure depicting Saddam's execution"
I hope this figure comes with a warning for kids on the figure's packaging.. it could say this : Don't try this at home. Hanging kills people, you dumb little shits!
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Who will I break next? 15000+ posts
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Who will I break next? 15000+ posts
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I think your posts should come with a warning.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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