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Anyone else think that this is all kinds of fucked up?
I'm not religious and don't think it should be taught at school, seperation of church and state and all that, but people have a right to wear symbols of their own religion surely?
Particularly if that item is considered important to their religion.
This kind of oppression is like something out of the dark ages.
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a couple days back my dad sent me an article about a proposed UN resolution to ban the public expression of religion. I tried to find it online but it's out of date and I can't find it. I've found mentions of the article, but can't find the article anymore. I'll just post it here and let you guys make up your mind. Quote:
Proposed UN Resolution Would Effectively Ban Religion
A draft resolution which aims to secure global peace and stability at the expense of organized religion is today being submitted to the United Nations in New York.
NEW YORK, NY (PRWEB) January 27, 2004 -- A draft resolution which aims to secure global peace and stability at the expense of organized religion is today being submitted to the United Nations in New York.
The resolution is being proposed by Antony Last, founder of formulism.org, a site which claims that freedom FROM religion would be of far greater benefit to mankind than freedom OF religion.
Freedom from Religion | Proposed UN Resolution / Charter Amendment | Version 1.1
WE THE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS HEREBY VOW
* to save succeeding generations from the scourge of organized religion, a folly which has brought untold sorrow to mankind through the division, hatred and conflict it engenders, and
* to reaffirm an individual's right to freedom of belief, freedom of conscience and freedom of prayer, and
* to establish conditions under which these freedoms can be privately exercised.
AND FOR THESE ENDS WE UNDERTAKE
1. To outlaw, with immediate effect, the public expression of religious beliefs, including the use of symbols, clothing or markings which are synonymous with any currently or previously existing religions.
2. To outlaw, with immediate effect, public acts of worship or religious declaration.
3. To outlaw, with immediate effect, private gatherings of three or more people for the purposes of engaging in acts of worship or religious services.
4. To outlaw, with immediate effect, the publication of books, literature or articles which seek to promote religious beliefs or encourage adherence to religious doctrine.
5. To outlaw, after a period of amnesty, the personal ownership of books or materials which seek to promote religious beliefs or encourage adherence to religious doctrine. (Books of academic or social interest will be made freely available to schools, universities and public libraries).
6. To outlaw, with immediate effect, the celebration of religiously significant dates.
7. To begin, with immediate effect, the destruction or reassignment of predominantly religious buildings, such as churches, mosques and temples.
For further information, see:
http://www.formulism.org/news.html
United Nations Contact Information
Office of the Spokesman for the Secretary-General
United Nations, S-378
New York, NY 10017
Press/media inquiries only
Tel. 212-963-7162
Fax. 212-963-7055
All other inquiries to be addressed to (212) 963-4475 or inquiries@un.org
http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2004/1/emw100794.htm
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That's a scary thought, the UN banning public expression of religion. Because religion itself isn't evil, and neither is the public expression of it - unless it's used for evil (to incite people to hate, or kill, etc.) It sounds like a hoax, though, and I''m hoping it is (it wouldn't surprise me if it was.)
As for the situation in France, I think it's going way too far. Granted they have different laws, values, and customs in different countries (does France even have a law that permits freedom of expression?), I just don't see the point of this prohibition. Teach secularity all you want - wearing of religious icons or traditional clothing isn't any threat to that. I've been in classrooms where students wear crosses and Muslin headscarves and kipot (the Hebrew word for the skullcap, also known as a yamicah in Yiddish), and it never threatens the secularity of the curriculum. I've yet to see any fights or arguments in public schools or universities over people displaying religious iconography.
The closest incident I can recall of anyone making a big deal of any sort out of someone displaying a religious icon was when I noticed a few of my classmates wearing ashes on their foreheads for Ash Wednesay. Out of natural curiosity, I asked a classmate what Ash Wednesday was, and she explained to me. I found it to be pretty interesting. So nothing negative came of it in any way. If anything, it may encourage students to want to learn more about other traditions and religions out of curiosity.
And then, of course, is the fact that many religions require special clothing to be worn. That's a religious practice. What next, Jewish students won't be allowed to bring kosher food from home, or studnets won't be able to say their blessings over their food before we eat? Judaism requires that a prayer be said before and after you eat, and other religions also require blessings over food. It's nothing that attracts a lot of attention - you whisper a few words quietly, and then you chow down. Would any of you have a problem with one of your classmates doing this?
I'm also surprised that 40% of Muslim women actually voted in favor of this.
Last edited by Darknight613; 2004-02-11 7:21 AM.
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The only 'religion' that seems to be causing actual problems for other religions at the moment appears to be atheism. 
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
The only 'religion' that seems to be causing actual problems for other religions at the moment appears to be atheism.
And that's not even a religion. If someone doesn't believe in God, fine. Just don't go shoving that belief, or lack of belief, down my throat.
As for France, they are desperate to chase Muslims out. I think they see how fucked they are for letting so many radical Muslims into their borders, and now they are scared. But, as usual, they are going about things the wrong way. If anything, they will just force Muslim families who want their daughters to cover their heads to send them to private Muslim schools. As to why so many Muslim women are in favor of this, many of them don't want to cover their heads. But, as it was said on Nightline, a lot of women want that choice, b/c they want to cover their heads. So, in the end, France is just fucking themselves in the ass. Nothing new.
<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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Quote:
PenWing said:
As for France, they are desperate to chase Muslims out. I think they see how fucked they are for letting so many radical Muslims into their borders, and now they are scared. But, as usual, they are going about things the wrong way.
Especially since Muslims aren't the only ones being penalized by this law.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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I wasn't even looking at that part of the wording. That's wrong by itself, except that Christians can't wear crosses, so they are punishing themselves too. I would think that most Jews who care to wear a yamikah and tzizit would be going to a private school anyway, so I don't know how much they are affected by this.
But, the thing that hurts them is that this is a blatent attack on Islam. Not only that, but, as was pointed out on Nightline by two women who are both Liberal Muslims (they don't cover their hair, etc.), this actually forces the Muslims who choose to cover their heads to go to Muslim private schools, where there is a good chance that they will be exposed to, and possibly indoctrinated by, radical Islamic teachings.
That, and this is an attack on them as well, not just radical Islam. So, some of them may decide to choose to side with radical Islam over common sense.
What I would like to know is how many of these radical Islamists are citizens of France? The US as adopted a stricter policy towards non-citizens of late, and perhaps France would be wise to do the same.
I don't know. I just see this as fuel being added to a fire. And it won't belong before it explodes.
Last edited by PenWing; 2004-02-11 6:41 PM.
<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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What is the general state of religion in France? Is it still a mainly Christian country or has religion faded there?
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i think whichever religion is least likely to get them invaded is what they choose....
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Quote:
britneyspearsatemyshorts said:
i think whichever religion is least likely to get them invaded is what they choose....
This may be a very sad possibility. 
<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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Quote:
PenWing said:
And that's not even a religion. If someone doesn't believe in God, fine. Just don't go shoving that belief, or lack of belief, down my throat.
Sorry but thats funny!
I chose atheism at a very early age due to the loss of my father when I was only two,yet I have been forced to study christianity at school,get hassled on the streets by various religions asking me if I've ever thought about God & have even had people knocking on my door trying to tell me God is the way!
Now if thats not shoving beliefs down someones throat I dont know what is!
You gotta realise that athiest have never had their beliefs,or rather thier lack of beliefs,respected by the religious community so why on Earth should we respect their beliefs?
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Cold shower here.
First, that "UN resolution" is a fake. Suckers! Its not even well-written.
Second, France wants to ban Muslim head-dresses in government schools as a way of better integreting minorities into their culture. They don't care where you are from or what you look like as long as you speak French and act French. This is their version of the melting pot, and they're turning up the heat.
Obviously I'm pro-French, but even I think that's daft. But, its not racist. I think its exhibiting a narrow minded cultural arrogance. I didn't hae to learn Chinese when I lived in China, people don't have to learn English when they live in the US, and people don't have to speak and act French if they're in France.
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Quote:
Dave said:
its exhibiting a narrow minded cultural arrogance
france?!?!?!?
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it wouldn't suprise me if Formulists actually submitted that to the UN, albeit with more concise vocabulary. The website is under reconstruction but I found the google cache here.
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Quote:
Dave said:
Cold shower here.
First, that "UN resolution" is a fake. Suckers! Its not even well-written.
I had a feeling - between the poor wording and the certainty that not even the French would feel like they could get away with that much.
Quote:
They don't care where you are from or what you look like as long as you speak French and act French.
The fact that they're that proud of being French is either tragic or hilarious. A bit of both.
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Quote:
Nowhereman said:
Quote:
PenWing said:
And that's not even a religion. If someone doesn't believe in God, fine. Just don't go shoving that belief, or lack of belief, down my throat.
Sorry but thats funny!
I chose atheism at a very early age due to the loss of my father when I was only two,yet I have been forced to study christianity at school,get hassled on the streets by various religions asking me if I've ever thought about God & have even had people knocking on my door trying to tell me God is the way!
Now if thats not shoving beliefs down someones throat I dont know what is!
You gotta realise that athiest have never had their beliefs,or rather thier lack of beliefs,respected by the religious community so why on Earth should we respect their beliefs?
Would it make you feel better if I told you that I don't go around shoving my beliefs down other peoples throats?
I also get insulted when people come knocking on my door to tell me that I should believe in God the same way that they do.
It's my belief, and, to me, it has been proven. But, I can't use my own experiances to convince someone else that my belief is correct.
So, I won't tell you what to believe if you don't tell me what not to believe.
Live and let live. Then the world will be a better place.
Agreed?
<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
The only 'religion' that seems to be causing actual problems for other religions at the moment appears to be atheism.
So no Christian has ever been killed or harrassed by a Muslim or vice versa, then?
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religion is the bane of society
The Leg Breakerer: Kung Fu Masta!!!
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Quote:
D. McDonagh said:
Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
The only 'religion' that seems to be causing actual problems for other religions at the moment appears to be atheism.
So no Christian has ever been killed or harrassed by a Muslim or vice versa, then?
 I'm discussing this in the context of this particular issue. People who claim adherence to many different patterns of faith attack adherents of other faiths all the time - but if you investigate it objectively, they're frequently violating the basic precepts of their own faith in doing so.
What I was saying was that in cases such as this one, atheists have no right to play that card ('religion takes away people's right to believe what they want to') because they are doing the exact same thing - trying to prevent people from believing what they want, simply because (for most of the atheists I know) they're uncomfortable with frequent references to God and would rather inconvenience everyone else than even consider what others might want. If something different is going on where you are, let me know.
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Quote:
winged creature said:
religion is the bane of society
Original. Well-supported too. I like it.
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In my experience, atheists are generally far more tolerant of whatever ridiculous nonsense those with religiousd convictions want to believe than those with said beliefs are of atheism. I have yet to hear of anyone being foircibly converted to atheism in order to get married, to pick an example.
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Quote:
D. McDonagh said:
In my experience, atheists are generally far more tolerant of whatever ridiculous nonsense those with religiousd convictions want to believe than those with said beliefs are of atheism. I have yet to hear of anyone being foircibly converted to atheism in order to get married, to pick an example.
That doesn't work. There should be more to marriage than lust. That is, love. And I don't know that you can love a person to the point where you would marry him/her if the person's ideology is so fundamentally different from your own. At the time, you may think it doesn't matter. Then you have kids, and then the kids are messed up b/c they don't know what to believe. But, by then, the fighting has probably got so bad that you are divorced, and the family is torn apart. You want the kids raised according your beliefs, and your ex wants the kids raised another way.
<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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Quote:
D. McDonagh said:
In my experience, atheists are generally far more tolerant of whatever ridiculous nonsense those with religiousd convictions want to believe than those with said beliefs are of atheism. I have yet to hear of anyone being foircibly converted to atheism in order to get married, to pick an example.
Keyword there - in your experience. Which I'm not debating. You've probably seen a lot of stuff I haven't. You tell me how you see it, I tell you how I see it. That is, after all, what I asked for.
But I've seen a lot of people take a lot of heat from plenty of atheists for voicing what they believe. Let's examine the scientific community. Many quite competent and well-educated Christian scientists (not to be confused with Christian Scientists, a quasi-Gnostic cult) have had their work summarily laughed at and dismissed, or have been fired from teaching positions, simply because they profess faith in God - which is somehow considered incompatible with science. 
I've been acquainted with brilliant professors and researchers who have been relegated to the status of second-class scientists for no other reason than for their statement of belief in a higher Power entirely outside the realm of science as we know it. (:izzatso: History never repeats itself? Hail Lenin.) It actually has no impact on most of their findings and conclusions, but nonetheless, they're frowned upon. Now, this isn't a debate about the roles of science and religion, but I'm definitely seeing a double standard here. I haven't seen any clear instances in which any of those individuals were 'forcing' their faith on others. They were asked what they believed, and they answered. In many of the cases I've heard complaints about, individuals who claim an atheistic worldview have been 'offended' by individuals who claim a Judeo-Christian worldview who made absolutely no attempts to deny those atheists their right to believe.
Nobody can keep you from believing something. But wanting to take away someone's ability to simply answer the question 'What do you believe?' through verbal or even nonverbal expressions (clothing, dietary practices, prayer habits, etc.) is extremely hypocritical coming from people who say they want to preserve everyone's right to believe what they choose to believe.
There aren't national democratic governments out there taking potshots at people for saying there is no God. Why should I be okay with governments who go after people for saying they believe there is one? If I don't allow what I believe to affect the way I live, if I don't support what I claim to believe, what's the point in believing it at all?
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Quote:
D. McDonagh said:
I have yet to hear of anyone being foircibly converted to atheism in order to get married, to pick an example.
Marriage is a choice (unless you live in the Middle East, the Ozarks, or a few mobile-home parks I've driven by), and if you desire to spend the rest of your life with someone, then you're willing to do what it takes to make that happen. You don't like that, do what I do. Stick to a potential mate who has the same fundamental beliefs you do. There's nothing wrong with differences of opinion on minor doctrinal points of order. But if you've decided to enter into a social contract with decidedly 'religious' connotations, what's the point of going through all that trouble if you don't agree with those connotations in the first place?
And as I've been saying, you can't be forcibly converted to anything. In this country, at least, you get to decide for yourself. It just means you might not always get your way because of it. I'm not in a position to address other societies because I'm not part of them and wouldn't be able to speak with the same sort of credibility.
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A bottle of catsup is all you need for religion! All other symbols should be burn along with the Vatican City and the Pope. These evil institutions of fake gods must stop and all should worship the grace and fair face of Kerry, the one true god and leader of all! Yes.
I make too much damn money!
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Quote:
Rob Kamphausen said:
Quote:
Dave said:
its exhibiting a narrow minded cultural arrogance
france?!?!?!?
You would have heard the joke:
Q: What's the difference between Americans and the French?
A: The French know they're arrogant.
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
Quote:
D. McDonagh said:
Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
The only 'religion' that seems to be causing actual problems for other religions at the moment appears to be atheism.
So no Christian has ever been killed or harrassed by a Muslim or vice versa, then?
I'm discussing this in the context of this particular issue. People who claim adherence to many different patterns of faith attack adherents of other faiths all the time - but if you investigate it objectively, they're frequently violating the basic precepts of their own faith in doing so.
What I was saying was that in cases such as this one, atheists have no right to play that card ('religion takes away people's right to believe what they want to') because they are doing the exact same thing - trying to prevent people from believing what they want, simply because (for most of the atheists I know) they're uncomfortable with frequent references to God and would rather inconvenience everyone else than even consider what others might want. If something different is going on where you are, let me know.
That's untrue.
I think anyone who believes in the existence of a benevolent and omnipotent God, and who believes in the Christian mythos, has reached that conclusion on the basis of faith, not logic. I'm not ever going to argue with faith, and in fact have to respect it. It doesn't mean I share it.
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
Quote:
D. McDonagh said:
In my experience, atheists are generally far more tolerant of whatever ridiculous nonsense those with religiousd convictions want to believe than those with said beliefs are of atheism. I have yet to hear of anyone being foircibly converted to atheism in order to get married, to pick an example.
Keyword there - in your experience. Which I'm not debating. You've probably seen a lot of stuff I haven't. You tell me how you see it, I tell you how I see it. That is, after all, what I asked for.
But I've seen a lot of people take a lot of heat from plenty of atheists for voicing what they believe. Let's examine the scientific community. Many quite competent and well-educated Christian scientists (not to be confused with Christian Scientists, a quasi-Gnostic cult) have had their work summarily laughed at and dismissed, or have been fired from teaching positions, simply because they profess faith in God - which is somehow considered incompatible with science.
[/qb]
Citation, please.
Quote:
[qb]
I've been acquainted with brilliant professors and researchers who have been relegated to the status of second-class scientists for no other reason than for their statement of belief in a higher Power entirely outside the realm of science as we know it. (:izzatso: History never repeats itself? Hail Lenin.) It actually has no impact on most of their findings and conclusions, but nonetheless, they're frowned upon. Now, this isn't a debate about the roles of science and religion, but I'm definitely seeing a double standard here. I haven't seen any clear instances in which any of those individuals were 'forcing' their faith on others. They were asked what they believed, and they answered. In many of the cases I've heard complaints about, individuals who claim an atheistic worldview have been 'offended' by individuals who claim a Judeo-Christian worldview who made absolutely no attempts to deny those atheists their right to believe.
[/qb]
So, in effect, you're countering D. McD's anecdotal evidence (which you say is his subjective experience and therefore incidental at best) with our own, anecdotal, subjective experiences.
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[qb]
Nobody can keep you from believing something. But wanting to take away someone's ability to simply answer the question 'What do you believe?' through verbal or even nonverbal expressions (clothing, dietary practices, prayer habits, etc.) is extremely hypocritical coming from people who say they want to preserve everyone's right to believe what they choose to believe.
There aren't national democratic governments out there taking potshots at people for saying there is no God. Why should I be okay with governments who go after people for saying they believe there is one? If I don't allow what I believe to affect the way I live, if I don't support what I claim to believe, what's the point in believing it at all?
I agree that people should be able to express themselves as they see fit in accordance with their religious beliefs. You can be both a patriotic Frenchwoman and a believer in Islam.
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I'm not countering anything he says, I'm simply balancing it against my own experience. I personally wouldn't mind seeing anecdotal evidence from just about everyone - to me it's preferable to parroting other people's thoughts and perspectives. And as far as your request for citation of said statements, I quite honestly don't have time. But if I did go ahead and find you something from a trusted media source (whatever that is) to substantiate my statements about the scientific community, it'd make it one of very few cited arguments in this thread. That's why I admitted it's anecdotal evidence - it's still on par with pretty much everything else that's been said. And keep in mind that I restricted my commentary to the context of this issue and an issue I personally see as directly linked to it. I'm not disputing D. McD's statements of opinion (as though opinion can even be disputed), I'm just adding my own opinion to the pot, which I am entitled to do and which I said plainly was what I was doing.
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DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (CNN) -- Tapes attributed to Osama bin Laden's top deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, have warned that more terror attacks are coming and criticized France's push to ban Islamic head scarves in schools.
The messages -- also heavily criticizing U.S. President George W. Bush -- were aired on the Al-Arabiya and Al-Jazeera Arabic-language TV networks Tuesday, but it was unclear whether the tapes were the same.
In the tape aired by the Qatar based satellite Al-Jazeera, the voice said: "The Islamic nation which sent you the New York and Washington brigades has taken a firm decision to send you successive brigades to sow death and aspire to paradise."
Addressing the American people, the voice said: "Whenever you receive a coffin, they should remember the U.S. crimes all over the world."
The speaker described Bush as spreading false information in the United States, promoting fear and frustration in the Middle Eastern region, and appointing corrupt leaders.
The speaker spoke on what he called Bush's "four claims" -- that U.S. forces are trying to promote freedom and security, that U.S. forces helped Iraq to get its freedom, that the U.S. forces captured more than two-thirds of al Qaeda leaders, and the situation in Afghanistan is stable.
He said al Qaeda is still waging jihad and "brandishes the banner of Islam against the Zionist-crusader campaign."
In the audiotape broadcast on the Dubai-based Al-Arabiya satellite TV channel, the speaker described the French government efforts to ban head scarves in schools as "part of the West's campaign of hatred against Islam." (Full story)
"The decision of the French president (Jacques Chirac) to issue a law to prevent Muslim girls from covering their heads in schools is another example of the Crusader and envy that the Westerners have against Muslims," said the voice.
"Banning the head scarves in France is in line with burning villages with its inhabitants in Afghanistan, bringing houses down on the heads of sleeping Palestinians, with killing children in Iraq and robbing their oil using false pretexts ... (and) torturing (Muslims) in the cells of Guantanamo," the tape said.
The head scarf bill passed the lower house of the French parliament earlier this month and goes before the French Senate next month.
Al-Arabiya would not disclose how it acquired the tape purportedly from al Qaeda's No. 2 man.
Sources at the station said the tape -- received a few minutes before it was aired -- was not played in its entirety.
The last tape believed to have come from the Egyptian-born doctor was released in December. In it, he warned that his fighters are chasing Americans in their homeland.
Yeah ummm......So apparently the French ban of ALL kinds of religious symbols is hate towards Islam.
Don't get me wrong, I've never really liked France, but it does seem kinda weird that they should ban all religious symbols in schools (including crosses etc.) if they hate Islam....
Then again, the most obvious thing you'll notice is not a lack of crosses, but a lack of scarves
Racks be to MisterJLA
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Quote:
DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (CNN) -- A tape recording attributed to Osama bin Laden's top deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, criticized France's decision to ban Islamic headscarves in schools, and described it as "part of the West's campaign of hatred against Islam."
"The decision of the French president to issue a law to prevent Muslim girls from covering their heads in schools is another example of the Crusader and envy that the Westerners have against Muslims," said the voice in the audiotape broadcast Tuesday on the Dubai-based Al-Arabiya satellite TV channel.
"Banning the headscarves in France is in line with burning villages with its inhabitants in Afghanistan, bringing houses down on the heads of sleeping Palestinians, with killing children in Iraq and robbing their oil using false pretexts ... (and) torturing [Muslims] in the cells of Guantanamo," the tape said.
Al-Arabiya would not disclose how it acquired the tape from al Qaeda's No. 2 man.
Sources at the station said the tape -- received a few minutes before it was aired -- was not played in its entirety.
The last tape believed to have come from the Egyptian-born doctor was released in December. In it, he warned that his fighters are chasing Americans in their homeland.
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Actually, Chant, when it was time to kill the first born Egyptians, God did not send an angel. God killed them by His own hand (so to speak).
<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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I thought it was the archangel Michael who would fullfill God's wishes in these matters?
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Quote:
Stupid Dogg said:
I thought it was the archangel Michael who would fullfill God's wishes in these matters?
Maybe it was Michael in Christianity.
In Jewish lore, Michael is seen as the advocate of humanity, presenting their prayers to G-d. Michael was responsible for telling Sarah she would give birth to Isaac, stopping Abraham from sacrificing Isaac, and accompanying the souls of the righteous to heaven when they die. A few scholars say that Michael was also the angel that wrestled with Jacob before his encounter with Esau.
As for the smiting of the firstborn in Egypt, that was G-d directly.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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Not quite sure, haven't read it myself. it's a warhammer 40000 novel, about a regiment of prisoners, 13th legion
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