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#270982 2004-03-16 6:18 AM
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Pariah Offline OP
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Bastard

Why won't Rucka stop corrupting my favorite characters?!

First he fucks up Wonder Woman. Then he associates Batman with her (prolly screwing up their entire friendship and changing it in fundamentally flawed ways) more than likely in a bullshit stunt to lift the book off the ground. And THEN, he takes DC's shining star, and places him right in his little crapfest!! Why can't you just stay away from Joker asshole!!??

Please God, someone fire this jerk.

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So the Joker is her greatest foe?????

I thought it was Circe or Ares???


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You know, I don't read any Bat titles anymore on a regular basis, but I *do* like Batman.

However, I KNEW Rucka would work Batman into this title.

And not that I mind a guest star, but the Bat family made a cameo already in Phil's first 4 issues, not that long ago. And also Luke's run.

Joker appeared in Phil's run in two story lines - and also in Wm-Loeb's run.

It's cute to see Diana and the Joker react to each other.

I am GLAD for the relationship Bruce and Diana share in the DCU side of the continuity - although it will never match what's going on in the Batverse - but I've heard sooo much of Rucka's "stellar" writing, I was hoping he'd build Diana up without a gimmick sale. He played with them in the Hikkie - and he's doing it again here. I'm very disappointed.

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I think it was written best in Gods of Gotham. I also liked the way Loeb/Messner handled the first interaction with Joker and Diana.

Anyway...

Truthfully, I have absolutely NO problem with interaction with Bats and Wondy. My real problems are...

1) Rucka's writing and manipulation/agenda: Rucka has changed Wondy to the nth degree using no other excuse than 'it's cooler'. He doesn't care that it doesn't make any sense, just continues to make Diana a nebulous character because of his changes, degrades the worth of the book, molds the character into his own image rather than the FINALLY corresponded image that Jimenez created, purposefully over-accentuates a characteristic that inadvertently (and he knows this) puts a stigma on the character by other characters that she's close friends with (this is why he included J'onn, Superman, Flash, and Batman so soon. So he can make sure they get along like they did before using his own ass backwards reasoning to make sure things fit for face value. They're still friends, but for completely different and unfounded reasons that disharmonize not only Diana's character, but ALL of the characters she corresponds with), just makes her comic cheaper through his huge changes (i.e. the Xylithnotaur(sp), disregard for original supporting cast and sole inclusion of his own), his...You know what? I could go on and on here. I don't even need to look towards this book alone to create my point either, look to every other DC title he's done. I don't think there was even ONE occasion that he didn't morph the character in a HUGE/unfounded way; Batman, Tec., Gotham Central, Wonder Woman, and he's ABOUT to do it with Superman (his interview on the subject was VERY implicative). So anyway, in the end, he's hurting everyone he pairs her with and not JUST Diana.

2) His sale grabs. If his pitch about making Diana the way he [u]wants[/u] her to be, which is based on Marston's love doll feminist (P.S. Rucka is TOTALLY ignoring what made that Wonder Woman a feminist in the first place, not to mention her DRIVE as a feminist. It was a cross between BDSM and man hating. Going half way with this is not only a cop out and plain lying, but also unprofessional. It's like he's zeroing the blame on Marston and not on himself. It's YOUR creation, not his ), then he shouldn't be including cameos like the JL at all. ESPECIALLY not at the beginning of the fucking run when he's re-constructing her persona--And I'd bet money that he knows this too. These little inclusions of his are only informing me of his tactics to sell more books. How many people do you think will actually stay away from a Batman or Joker cameo? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say they're DCs two most popular and influential characters (aside from Superman) that have ever been in existence. I'm not even mentioning his band wagon jumping.

So, in the end, it's Rucka's antics that are my problem.....But we already knew that.

Another thing...

You know what his response to all the negative feedback that had to do with my types of complaints on his handling of Diana? It was THE worst thing you could hear a writer say about comicbooks: "Then don't read it". SONUVABITCH!! These books aren't just about stories like your run of the mill softback. We get them purely for the character. And that character is what we read later on. If said character is being written on flawed characterization, how are we supposed to enjoy that? We don't have to read YOUR run, but we do have to read what it helps create. His actions aren't saying much for this--It's saying he's not doing his job as not only a writer, but a comic book writer. He's just getting creative with procedure and labeling himself a hack. His defenders at the Wondy boards I can say without a bit of hesitance are complete and utter fucktards in this department. I tell them he's changing character, they respond that she has no character because she's changed by other writers so much (while blatantly ignoring their beloved founding principles they go on and on about when speaking ill of Jimenez), I ask them if that's their whole justification (allowing writers to constantly change characters because other writers got to), they drift off point (again, because they're fucktards), I finally tell them to fuck off and find a better argument rather than perpetuation of morphing of an image that's been lost three times before (due to the same negligence they're defending currently, but scoffed at so much before). Every time, the frickin' lip service I get after this ordeal, "She's not out of character, she's the way she's SUPPOSED to be"--ARG!! A certain group of people in that forum just wants a WOMAN the way THEY want and disclude everyone else's opinion. Wonder Woman has no qualities that are either feminine (contradictory flaw which is a direct product of over-accentuation) or non-stereotypical because of their feminist bullshit. Quality of writing is neither accuracy of character, nor is it excellence of story. If a writer cannot work with what he's given and doesn't do his (as I tell Mxy time and again) JOB, he lacks talent and I'm not going to abide it. A side note: This crap isn't just limited to the Wondy boards either.

You know what gets me even more? He bothers to pull this shit to the point where it's beyond noticeable, but still tries to cover it up using past continuity references--SOLELY because they were done before and not because they justify anything in his stories. He re-defines everything and to cover his tracks (unsuccessfully), he uses continuity that doesn't even speak for him.

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I couldn't agree more, with nearly everything you said there.


But I especially liked THIS:

Quote:

Pariah said:

You know what his response to all the negative feedback that had to do with my types of complaints on his handling of Diana? It was THE worst thing you could hear a writer say about comicbooks: "Then don't read it". SONUVABITCH!!




It bothers me as well.
"Vote with your dollars!" I don't want to KILL the character (not just WW, since there will ALWAYS be a WW), but I hate it when they say that.

I hate how that card is pulled - that "I'm writing it so I know the character better". BULLSHIT. Not with the icons.

I hate how us fans cling dearly to a character for years on end, pouring dollars and devotion into a monthly for YEARS - and then some new cunt pops in and is "the authority". It's no longer about giving the fans something entertaining and exciting, it's about putting your mark on a character and saying "I did that".

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Pariah Offline OP
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*nods sagely* Amen brudda.

That's pretty much why I dropped Batman. Loeb did it with Hush, Azzarello with Broken City, it's gonna be Winnick with his upcoming run.

Brubaker is STILL doing it with Catwoman.

Then look at Robin: They changed Robin from Tim Drake, the character that people buy the book to read about, to Stephanie Brown. Amazingly/Stupidly, the writer ACTUALLY thinks that people buy the book for the hero, Robin, alone when it's the character who operates behind him that people buy the book for. And here's where I was informed of his phonyness; his opening pitch was 'this will be the first FEMALE Robin' (paraphrased)--ARG!! What a crock!

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Pariah Offline OP
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Bumpin'.

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FANBOY TEARS.

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Pariah Offline OP
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More like fanboy rage.,

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Either way, I'm making fun of you.

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Quote:

Pariah said:His defenders at the Wondy boards I can say without a bit of hesitance are complete and utter fucktards in this department.




Bah! The entire WW board, not just his supporters are a bunch of fucktards and prudes! Their latest incessive complaint? A partially clothed woman IMPLYING sex! OH NOES!!! HOW CAN WE EVER MMAKE CHILDREN THINK ABOUT TWO LOVING CONSENTING ADULTS DOING AN ACT ThAT MAKES babies, THAT IS SHOWN ON NETWORK TV ALL THE TIME in a VIOLENT COMIC BOOK starring a [u]SCANTILY CLAD WOMAN[/u]?!?!?!?!

Asswipes!


Voted "Biggest Waste Of Space" On The Bat-Boards For "Multiple Reasons"

Jerry Falwell On Rudolph The Red-Nosed Reindeer:
"Those hollywood, homosexual, jewish types making a show about a reindeer who is 'different' and just cant 'hide it'. Everyone knows if he tries hard enough he can convert himself to a normal, black-nosed reindeer."

I am 95% addicted to Porn. What about you?
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Pariah Offline OP
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Quote:

Disco Steve said:
Either way, I'm making fun of you.




And I'm still correcting your wording. What of it?

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Pariah Offline OP
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Quote:

Anonymous One said:
Quote:

Pariah said:His defenders at the Wondy boards I can say without a bit of hesitance are complete and utter fucktards in this department.




Bah! The entire WW board, not just his supporters are a bunch of fucktards and prudes! Their latest incessive complaint? A partially clothed woman IMPLYING sex! OH NOES!!! HOW CAN WE EVER MMAKE CHILDREN THINK ABOUT TWO LOVING CONSENTING ADULTS DOING AN ACT ThAT MAKES babies, THAT IS SHOWN ON NETWORK TV ALL THE TIME in a VIOLENT COMIC BOOK starring a [u]SCANTILY CLAD WOMAN[/u]?!?!?!?!

Asswipes!




Dude, why didn't you ever raid them?

If I was still in your position (able to post on the boards without threat of net access being pulled), I'd be swamping them with Pollitically Incorrect rhetoric and constantly making fun of their own home brued generic etiquette.


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