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Nothing says fair play like screwing over multiple majorities to placate a potentially offended minority or two. Did anyone even file an official complaint over this?
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According to the article Dogbert posted "Rabbi Elazar Bogomilsky...made his request weeks ago... had hired a lawyer and threatened to sue."
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Quote:
the G-man said:
According to the article Dogbert posted "Rabbi Elazar Bogomilsky...made his request weeks ago... had hired a lawyer and threatened to sue."
On the other hand, that same rabbi was outraged that the trees were removed. That's not what he wanted to happen. He just wanted his holiday to be included.
Regarding an earlier point, I personally don't see the big deal about having multiple holiday displays around. A lot of religions and cultures celebrate holidays around this time of year. I wouln't have a problem with seeing them all acknowledged. Besides, some of them are quite nice and would make good decorations.
Maybe places like airports and the like could invite practitioners of various faiths to donate their own holiday decorations? The airport doesn't have to invest the time and money into doing it themselves, people who want their faiths represented get to do so, and nobody will be able to complain if practitioners of a certain holiday choose not to submit theirs.
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Well, first of all, I agree with PigIron. The Rabbi was way off by giving the airport a hard time. It was just Christmas trees! It wasn't anything offensive, I think the guy just has a grudge against seeing people enjoy a holiday which he does not believe in. Or maybe he lives with a bitch of a wife whom he can't stand and so he takes it out on everybody else.
I also understand where G - Man is coming from. The airport wants people's business, not their lawsuits.
And, I see Phil's point...why didn't someone raise a counter - suit over the trees having to be taken down?
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Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
Well, first of all, I agree with PigIron. The Rabbi was way off by giving the airport a hard time. It was just Christmas trees! It wasn't anything offensive, I think the guy just has a grudge against seeing people enjoy a holiday which he does not believe in. Or maybe he lives with a bitch of a wife whom he can't stand and so he takes it out on everybody else.
Except that the rabbi didn't want the trees taken down - he wanted a menorah to be included as well. The airport made the decision to take down the trees on their own.
Although a lawsuit is really going overboard.
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Yeah, Dogbert, I know the Rabbi just wanted a menorah put up.... but the lawsuit the man threatened was what helped the airport decide to take away all the trees.
And I still think the trees may have offended him, anyway.
I went into town on Sat. Dec. 9 for my club social. I walked through 30 th street station on the way there. They had a 20 foot tall, beautifully decorated tree. It felt good to see it. I would be disappointed if I were to walk through there again in a few days and see the tree gone.
I'd not like it if this Rabbi has set a trend where anyone who feels left out at the Holidays is going to behave as he did.
Still, it might not have hurt the airport to have put up a few menorahs now, would it?
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Quote:
the G-man said:
According to the article Dogbert posted "Rabbi Elazar Bogomilsky...made his request weeks ago... had hired a lawyer and threatened to sue."
Quote:
dogbert said:
On the other hand, that same rabbi was outraged that the trees were removed. That's not what he wanted to happen. He just wanted his holiday to be included.
Understood. However, I was responding to Sammitch, who had asked if anyone had complained about the display. The Rabbi did.
Quote:
Regarding an earlier point, I personally don't see the big deal about having multiple holiday displays around. A lot of religions and cultures celebrate holidays around this time of year. I wouln't have a problem with seeing them all acknowledged. Besides, some of them are quite nice and would make good decorations.
Maybe places like airports and the like could invite practitioners of various faiths to donate their own holiday decorations?
That sounds good until someone demands to decorate to honor some obscure religion, or even not so obscure religion, with some sort of 'offensive' imagry in it.
For example, what happens when the Satanists want inverted pentagrams put up? Or some fundamentalists Christians want a graphic version of the "Passion"? Or the Wiccans want something with nudity?
Someone will have a fit over it.
And, trust me, some group will make it a point to see what they can get away with, simply for publicity and to make a stink.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
According to the article Dogbert posted "Rabbi Elazar Bogomilsky...made his request weeks ago... had hired a lawyer and threatened to sue."
Quote:
dogbert said:
On the other hand, that same rabbi was outraged that the trees were removed. That's not what he wanted to happen. He just wanted his holiday to be included.
Understood. However, I was responding to Sammitch, who had asked if anyone had complained about the display. The Rabbi did.
Yeah, I caught that. Just providing extra detail, is all.
Quote:
Regarding an earlier point, I personally don't see the big deal about having multiple holiday displays around. A lot of religions and cultures celebrate holidays around this time of year. I wouln't have a problem with seeing them all acknowledged. Besides, some of them are quite nice and would make good decorations.
Maybe places like airports and the like could invite practitioners of various faiths to donate their own holiday decorations?
That sounds good until someone demands to decorate to honor some obscure religion, or even not so obscure religion, with some sort of 'offensive' imagry in it.
For example, what happens when the Satanists want inverted pentagrams put up? Or some fundamentalists Christians want a graphic version of the "Passion"? Or the Wiccans want something with nudity?
Someone will have a fit over it.
And, trust me, some group will make it a point to see what they can get away with, simply for publicity and to make a stink.
True. There is no perfect solution to this.
However, everything has limits, and there may be a way to find a way to impose some sort of reasonable limits on this. After all, we have freedom of speech, but making death threats or inciting people to violence is illegal.
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who pays attention to airport decor?
christmas puh, its all stolen from paganism anyhow.
And, to be fair, one of my favorite friends there is blind and I take every opportunity available to make fun of that and we're still friends. That guy never fit there. He never got the spirit of the RKMBs. We're gonna keep an eye on the obits, see if he finally left or if he really did have a heart attack.
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You should read my thread in DT1 instead of just spamming it.
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show me where i "spammed" your thread 
And, to be fair, one of my favorite friends there is blind and I take every opportunity available to make fun of that and we're still friends. That guy never fit there. He never got the spirit of the RKMBs. We're gonna keep an eye on the obits, see if he finally left or if he really did have a heart attack.
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Quote:
sneaky bunny said:
who pays attention to airport decor?
christmas puh, its all stolen from paganism anyhow.
indeed.
the Romans put Christmas at that point in December to have it coincide with Winter Soltace (sp).
Christmas trees can be traced to Pagans in Germany and Rome B.C. A basic Pagan celebration of nature.
Santa Claus was Saint Nicholas who was a wealthy Bishop that gave his money to the needy.
Bow ties are coool.
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Quote:
thedoctor said:
Quote:
rex said:
Same goes for every other window licker that lets other peoples actions affect their happiness around Christmas. It really doesn't matter. Stop victimizing yourself and realize that this kind of shit really doesn't matter.
Rex was the only kid who was ever upset to get toys instead of socks for Christmas.
Its nice to know that g-man has a replacement.
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
I think they should've added the menorah. It wouldn't have offended me at all. I'm sure somebody calvinist in some denomination might protest, but there really is no viable reason to exclude Judaism from a nominally Christian holiday. Jesus was Jewish. Almost all the first Christians were Jews. Put up the menorah already!
I know this is just asking for another "I went to seminary so I know everything there is about Calvinism so my understanding of Calvinism is absolute" but what the hell does this have anything to do with Calvinism?
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
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Quote:
rex said:
Quote:
thedoctor said:
Quote:
rex said:
Same goes for every other window licker that lets other peoples actions affect their happiness around Christmas. It really doesn't matter. Stop victimizing yourself and realize that this kind of shit really doesn't matter.
Rex was the only kid who was ever upset to get toys instead of socks for Christmas.
Its nice to know that g-man has a replacement.
It's nice to know you accepted the position, rex.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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There's a certain irony in rex, on one hand, telling us to not let the words of others bother us and, on the other, getting pissed off on cue whenever anyone makes a sock joke.
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Quote:
rex said:
Quote:
thedoctor said:
Quote:
rex said:
Same goes for every other window licker that lets other peoples actions affect their happiness around Christmas. It really doesn't matter. Stop victimizing yourself and realize that this kind of shit really doesn't matter.
Rex was the only kid who was ever upset to get toys instead of socks for Christmas.
Its nice to know that g-man has a replacement.
Don't let the the Doc's actions infringe on you *snicker* "happiness".
I think we all know what's coming now, folks.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
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You even got his lapdog on your side.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
There's a certain irony in rex, on one hand, telling us to not let the words of others bother us and, on the other, getting pissed off on cue whenever anyone makes a sock joke.
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Meanwhile, a very disturbing observation about this thread.
338 posts (339 now) and nobody's done a "Duck season!" "Rabbit season!" joke?
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"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Quote:
sneaky bunny said:
show me where i "spammed" your thread
First of all, I didn't say "STOP SPAMMING MY THREAD YOU BITCH!" Or at least that's not how I meant it to sound. Second of all, you weren't the major offender, just someone who picked up where the first spammer left off, so I wasn't really that upset with you personally. (It just seems a bit hypocritical for someone who whined about my 'vote farming' in DT2 to blather about pumpkin pie in what was meant to be a serious thread in DT1 about Christmas.) I was just hinting that I might've touched on something you said (namely the origin of Christmas in co-opted pagan festivals) in my thread, and that you might have something good to add there if you took the time to read it all the way through.
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
sneaky bunny said:
who pays attention to airport decor?
christmas puh, its all stolen from paganism anyhow.
indeed.
the Romans put Christmas at that point in December to have it coincide with Winter Soltace (sp).
Christmas trees can be traced to Pagans in Germany and Rome B.C. A basic Pagan celebration of nature.
Santa Claus was Saint Nicholas who was a wealthy Bishop that gave his money to the needy.
I touched on some of that in my DT1 thread, so I won't need to back up or elaborate on any of your post in this one. The borrowing of some pagan rituals to help include the pagans and show some respect to their culture (believe it or not the Roman Catholic Church actually did that once upon a time) doesn't make the birth of Christ irrelevant to the holiday. Yes, we know the Church borrowed from pagan rituals, no, we don't know the exact day of the year Jesus was born (and there's still occasional debate over the exact year), and yes, it's still okay to observe the birth of Jesus on that day.
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
I think they should've added the menorah. It wouldn't have offended me at all. I'm sure somebody calvinist in some denomination might protest, but there really is no viable reason to exclude Judaism from a nominally Christian holiday. Jesus was Jewish. Almost all the first Christians were Jews. Put up the menorah already!
I know this is just asking for another "I went to seminary so I know everything there is about Calvinism so my understanding of Calvinism is absolute" but what the hell does this have anything to do with Calvinism?
Actually, I didn't go to seminary, but I had to take a chunk of courses normally found in many seminaries as general education requirements. I specifically put that in there to troll you out and make you angry, since it's so difficult to do that most of the time. There was absolutely zero chance I added that as a humorous aside for anyone else who might know what I was referring to.
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What's with all the side-tracking?
We're supposed to be discussing socks, right? (I don't think I want to know why)
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Actually you should probably try to adhere to the original topic. The mods (of this forum) don't look kindly upon straying OT (within the confines of this forum). x 3.14159 Yours truly, 1492 A.D.
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"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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You're lending way too much credence to bsams' assertion regarding the gayness of the ackbar graemlin, jerry.
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It looks gay enough to me! 
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
I touched on some of that in my DT1 thread...
Uh, technically, this is DT1. It was here first.
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
Actually you should probably try to adhere to the original topic. The mods (of this forum) don't look kindly upon straying OT (within the confines of this forum). x 3.14159
Yours truly,
1492 A.D.
I was worried about what this place would be like with mods (which is why I voted for no mods), but I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition.
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NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!!!
Last edited by King Snarf; 2006-12-12 4:58 AM.
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Quote:
King Snarf said:
NOBOBY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!!!
That needs a graemlin.
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Quote:
(It just seems a bit hypocritical for someone who whined about my 'vote farming' in DT2 to blather about pumpkin pie in what was meant to be a serious thread in DT1 about Christmas.)
If you got a problem with me, BRING it to me.
It isn't hypocracy 'cause I don't give a right or left shit if people go off topic within a thread; that is your own perogative. Anyone can still post on-topic to the thread (like in your stupid x-mas thread) and ignore the shit (which is just about everything in 90% of my posts).
When a topic/thread is inappropriate for the forum posted in I might get a bug up my ass. There are forums for just about everything here, it isn't hard to go to the right one. ...and then there's r3x and his boring spam-thread shit that he does (and is doing). Will I do anything about it? No, I'll just post shit in the thread so people know it ought to be in another forum. Easy to ignore, easy to understand, everyone wins.
If I ever feel the need to use the mod buttons (aside from sticky), I will consult the other mods first. I do not see this happening.
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I thought I was being polite by doing my spamming in its own thread; then you could just move or delete the thing. There's a difference between starting a separate thread that's OT for the forum (which is what I did and what ray does) and derailing or attempting to derail a serious discussion thread with an OT post within the thread (which is what I feel you did in my Christmas thread, which by the way wouldn't seem 'stupid' if you could be bothered to read it). I'm not even that upset with you; it's just that for someone who is working to maintain order and promote serious discussion in this forum (which I believe you can and will do), you didn't seem to show much respect for someone else's thread in someone else's forum.
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
I thought I was being polite by doing my spamming in its own thread; then you could just move or delete the thing. There's a difference between starting a separate thread that's OT for the forum (which is what I did and what ray does) and derailing or attempting to derail a serious discussion thread with an OT post within the thread (which is what I feel you did in my Christmas thread, which by the way wouldn't seem 'stupid' if you could be bothered to read it). I'm not even that upset with you; it's just that for someone who is working to maintain order and promote serious discussion in this forum (which I believe you can and will do), you didn't seem to show much respect for someone else's thread in someone else's forum.
christ, get over yourself. i'd like to see this special device you have that shows who or who didn't read your damn thread. 90% of the threads in each forum are derailed at some point and maybe uschi does like christmas cause of pumpkin pie.
Really, this is lower than Rex-pathetic whining.
And, to be fair, one of my favorite friends there is blind and I take every opportunity available to make fun of that and we're still friends. That guy never fit there. He never got the spirit of the RKMBs. We're gonna keep an eye on the obits, see if he finally left or if he really did have a heart attack.
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Christmas Trees Return to SeaTac Airport By GENE JOHNSON, Associated Press Writer 4 hours ago SEATAC, Wash. - The Christmas trees are back up at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport. Maintenance staff worked overnight to restore the 14 plastic trees that had been removed during the weekend because of a rabbi's threat to sue over the lack of a menorah in the airport's holiday decor. Airport managers believed that if they allowed the addition of an 8-foot-tall menorah to the display, as Seattle Rabbi Elazar Bogomilsky had requested, they would also have to display symbols of other religions and cultures. Airport workers didn't have time to do that during the busy travel season, Airport Director Mark Reis said. The rabbi "never asked us to remove the trees; it was the port's decision based on what we knew at the time," Patricia Davis, president of the Port of Seattle commission, said in a statement late Monday. However, port officials learned on Monday that Bogomilsky's organization would not file a lawsuit over this year's display, Davis said. "A key element in moving forward will be to work with the rabbi and other members of the community to develop a plan for next year's holiday decorations at the airport," the port statement said. There were no immediate plans to display a menorah, airport spokesman Bob Parker said. The rabbi offered to give the port an electric menorah to display, said his lawyer, Harvey Grad. "We are not going to be the instrument by which the port holds Christmas hostage," Grad said. He said the rabbi had received "all kinds of calls and e-mails," many of them "odious," over the issue. Grad said the rabbi never sought removal of the trees, only addition of the menorah. "For many people, the Christmas tree is an important symbol of the season. Our goal was to include a menorah in the airport as well so that we could bring extra light with Hanukkah's universal message of hope," Bogomilsky wrote in a statement Monday on behalf of Chabad of Greater Seattle. "Our discussion of possible legal action was never about removing Christmas trees _ it was about protecting the right to add menorahs." Thirteen trees had stood above foyers that lead outside to the airport drive. The largest tree, which Reis estimated at 15 or 20 feet tall, stood in a large lobby near international baggage claim. After the removal, some airline workers decorated ticketing counters with their own miniature Christmas trees. Frontier Airlines customer service agents pooled their money to buy four 1-foot-high trees and placed them on their ticket counter. Delta Air Line workers put up a single larger tree. The airlines lease space for ticket counters from the airport, and can display trees there if they want, Reis said. ___ On the Net: SeaTac: http://www.portofseattle.org/seatac/Chabad of Seattle: http://www.chabadofseattle.org/
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
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Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
I don't think this issue is resolved. As noted above, I anticipate various other religions demanding their representation in the airports. I suspect this will happen regardless of the Rabbi's actions.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 19,633
I walk in eternity 15000+ posts
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I walk in eternity 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 19,633 |
I don't think it's ever going to be resolved, and that it will just get worse with time.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 24,106
faggot 15000+ posts
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faggot 15000+ posts
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 24,106 |
Quote:
sneaky bunny said:
and maybe uschi does like christmas cause of pumpkin pie.
Thank you. It IS the only reason I like the holiday. Pumpkin pie is the only thing I like about winter.
Old men, fear me! You will shatter under my ruthless apathetic assault!
Uschi - 2
Old Men - 0
"I am convinced that this world is of no importance, and that the only people who care about dates are imbeciles and Spanish teachers." -- Jean Arp, 1921
"If Jesus came back and saw what people are doing in his name, he would never never stop throwing up." - Max von Sydow, "Hannah and Her Sisters"
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