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So.....
SPOILERS
The killer is revealed to be Jean Loring. She slips up and she asks him about the note that was left for Jack Drake. Ray figures it out because Batman took the note before it was reported anywhere.
She used his old costume in the basement to shrink down and kill Sue.
She also used the costume to set up her hanging.
She tries to justify it to Ray but she is obviously quite insane. Ray drops her off at Arkham and shrinks down to cry.
We then get scenes of heroes visiting their loved ones.
Still nothing more about the mindwiping of Bruce and such.
The series ends with Ralph talking to his absent wife.
It ends with the lights out and the caption "Ralph and Sue Dibny. Husband and Wife."
I think this guy said it best as far as how I feel about the whole thing:
"I think after reading the last issue that the focus on making this a straight murder mystery is why many will be disappointed. Was Jean Loring the most inspired pick? No; but in the end it made sense within the context of the series.
The more important aspect I feel are the unintended consequences -- The mindwipes coming to light, the new Boomerang, the return of Deathstroke, the Calculator as the villain oracle -- all of these are occuring as a result of this heinous crime.
But I challenge anyone to say that their heart didn't break a little for Ralph Dibny and all he lost and the intense sadness for the loss of Sue Dibny - a character many of us have known for years and some were just introduced to in this series." -newportnews
Last edited by Rob Kamphausen; 2004-12-16 4:28 PM.
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Quote:
The more important aspect I feel are the unintended consequences -- The mindwipes coming to light, the new Boomerang, the return of Deathstroke, the Calculator as the villain oracle -- all of these are occuring as a result of this heinous crime.
Yeah, if I have a major beef with this series it is the unfulfilled promise.
When it began, we were promised (or at least it was implied that there would be) major sweeping changes in the DCU.
Instead we got the death of a few supporting characters (Sue, Jack Drake, Capt. Boomerang), the killer revealed as someone who isn't even a supporting character anymore (Jean was effectively written out of Ray's life with the divorce 20 years ago) and a number of outstanding, but unresolved, issues.
As much as I enjoyed the story, that lack of "change" leaves me a bit unfulfilled.
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I should probably clarify that Jean was not intending to kill anyone. Her intention was to "frighten the league" so all the hereos and their family members would be close to each other. She wanted Ray back (though I don't really understand this seeing as Ray was practically throwing himself at her anyways, but I guess insanity explains that away).
Though, things went south when she messed up and killed Sue, she lost it. She decided to burn the body to try to cover it all up. Then she hired Cap. Boomerang and sent Jack Drake the gun to protect himself, believing Mr. Drake would have been able to handle himself.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Yeah, if I have a major beef with this series it is the unfulfilled promise.
When it began, we were promised (or at least it was implied that there would be) major sweeping changes in the DCU.
Instead we got the death of a few supporting characters (Sue, Jack Drake, Capt. Boomerang), the killer revealed as someone who isn't even a supporting character anymore (Jean was effectively written out of Ray's life with the divorce 20 years ago) and a number of outstanding, but unresolved, issues.
As much as I enjoyed the story, that lack of "change" leaves me a bit unfulfilled.
Yeah, I know what you mean. I guess the changes come after this series. The series seems to be the set up for any changes.
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So.........in the first part of her master plan to get back Ray, the very first thing she did was fuck up and kill Sue? It sounds like an "I Love Lucy" plot gone bad. "Jeannie.........you gots some 'splainin' to do" "Waaaaah!!!"
Yeah, she must be nuts. That's the current, biggest cop-out answer in comics. She's insane! It's the red-kryptonite story of todays comics.
Psssht. All she had to do to get Ray back was to ASK him to come back! He would have hurt himself trying to get through the phoneline to get to her faster!
I hoped for something...........stronger from this series. Batman truly on the outs with every other hero. Ralph dying finding and fighting with the killer. A total mindwipe of everyone who knowws the secret identities in the DCU.
That's the most earth shaking things DC allows to have done? Sue dies, Jack Drake dies, Boomer dies, interesting but relatively minor DCU plot developments? The series I hoped to show the maturation of the comics industry slowly wimps out to be emblematic of what's wrong with comics. Its sad.
Last edited by Captain Cranky; 2004-12-15 8:13 PM.
"Power corrupts. Absolute power is kind of neat."
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Remember that Identity Crisis is going to lead into Countdown which will lead into the next Crisis that will happen next summmer.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Quote:
I should probably clarify that Jean was not intending to kill anyone. Her intention was to "frighten the league" so all the hereos and their family members would be close to each other.
How in the Holy Hell does giving someone a non-fatal brain aneyrism or whatever it was Jean did, "frighten the League"?
If Sue had simply, for example, had a stroke, the League, not to mention Sue's DOCTORS, would have thought "hmmm... the poor gal had a stroke...rare in such a young woman, but it happens."
Sure, RALPH might have retired from the biz to care for his wife, but no one else would have been significantly affected.
And, as someone noted above, all she had to do to get Ray back was say "come home Ray."
Bad. Very bad.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
I should probably clarify that Jean was not intending to kill anyone. Her intention was to "frighten the league" so all the hereos and their family members would be close to each other.
How in the Holy Hell does giving someone a non-fatal brain aneyrism or whatever it was Jean did, "frighten the League"?
If Sue had simply, for example, had a stroke, the League, not to mention Sue's DOCTORS, would have thought "hmmm... the poor gal had a stroke...rare in such a young woman, but it happens."
Sure, RALPH might have retired from the biz to care for his wife, but no one else would have been significantly affected.
And, as someone noted above, all she had to do to get Ray back was say "come home Ray."
Bad. Very bad.
and to think, I expected more from Meltzer. That'll teach me!
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Quote:
rex said:
Remember that Identity Crisis is going to lead into Countdown which will lead into the next Crisis that will happen next summmer.
So the "comics event of 2004" was nothing but a prologue to a miniseries that will serve as the springboard for a subsequent book?
Uh, OK....
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I expected a bit more action. We were led to think that there would be a fallout between the big three. We were also led to think that Ralph would be more active in the story. Instead...nuthin'. Not even Batman sending the League to stop Jean from doing anything else. No villian showdown either. Hmmm...the story was good, but rather unfulfilling at the end.
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Sue died for this?
Pathetic.
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Hmm, I tried going to Talk@Newsarama but the site is having problems.
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You know, if DC/Meltzer had wanted to keep the same basic structure, and make a hell of a lot more sense, all they have had to have done was: Have Jean kill Sue because she discovered Ray and Sue were having an affair.
You would have had more of a twist, and a twist that would have at least had the potential to cause dissension in the league, as the heroes fought over such a betrayal by Ray of Ralph, especially given their history with Dr. Light.
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I knew it was going to be Jean because they had to throw in that "twist" after the big reveal in #6, but I still think it should have been Atom. It would have made more sense. Atom kills a hero's wife with the intention of getting back with Jean, everything gets maneuvered into position. A few more hero's family members get threatened, Jean gets more terrified and seeks protection from Ray.
Or at the very least, to make Jean seem more crazy just admit that she intended to kill Sue, but Drake was an accident. I mean, she just happened to have a flame thrower?
Or what about selling Rays inventions on the black market? Sue was just a demonstration of what the inventions could be used for. I mean, what does she need his patents for anymore if she was going to sell them illegally?
I give the book a D. Forget the hype, the ending was pure shit and that really lowered the overall grade of the story.
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Quote:
Stupid Dogg said:
Or at the very least, to make Jean seem more crazy just admit that she intended to kill Sue, but Drake was an accident. I mean, she just happened to have a flame thrower?
Yeah, I didn't even bother to mention that.
Basically, no cop, D.A. or JURY on earth would buy this was an accident. Every bit of evidence we saw said "premeditated murder," no matter what Jean's "confession" says.
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I just had a thought...
A few years ago, DC was going to kill off Aquaman, but had to bring him back, when the producers of the animated "Justice League" said they wanted to use him on the show.
Now we have a story that, by all rights, was set up to make Ray look like the killer...but at the end wasn't. And the ending that says who the "real" killer is seems illogical and forced.
You don't suppose that Ray WAS the killer and then DC found out about the Atom being on the "JLU" show and had to scramble to change the ending?
I admit it is a little far fetched. However it is not without precedent and certainly no more far fetched than the explanation for Sue's murder that we got in IC 7
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I think you're all being too harsh.
The murder mystery ended up being the backdrop to events that will affect the interaction of DC characters for years to come.
It was the unresolved issues that will set in motion plot lines for any number of titles.
A new Capt "Zoomerang", a new and lethal Dr Light, a new Calculator, a devasted ELongated Man, and most important of all, extreme tension between Batman and his former friends in the JLA. That's not bad coming out of one series - a lot more than Legends, Armageddon 1000, Invasion or any other number of ridiculous cross over events that have taken place over the past 20 years have achieved.
With all of this, who cares, ultimately, that Jean was responsible? There is too much else to contemplate.
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Quote:
A new Capt "Zoomerang", a new and lethal Dr Light, a new Calculator
New and/or revamped villains show up in the DCU every couple months and none of these guys, with the possible exception of Calculator, seem to be likely to be "heavy hitters." It's not like we're talking wholesale changes to, for example, Joker and Luthor.
Quote:
a devasted ELongated Man
Since Ralph doesn't have his own book, or even a regular role on a team (unless you count "FKatJL", and Giffin says he doesn't intend to honor the IDC continuity), I don't see this as particular earth shattering.
Quote:
and most important of all, extreme tension between Batman and his former friends in the JLA.
That tensions been there for years. All Meltzer did was proffer a possible explanation for it.
Quote:
The murder mystery ended up being the backdrop to events that will affect the interaction of DC characters for years to come....That's not bad coming out of one series
You know, I remember being promised that "Legends, Armageddon 1000, Invasion" and the other "ridiculous cross over events that have taken place over the past 20 years" would be "the backdrop to events that will affect the interaction of DC characters for years to come." In the end, it never panned out...or was retconned out of existence anyway.
Given that, all I ask for a good story with an ending that makes sense.
This was, overall, a good story, but this ending doesn't make sense.
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Many people guessed that Jean was the killer, which indicates to me that it had some rationale to it. To me, it made sense, although I agree with you that the Atom would have been a preferable killer. (I had guessed he was not when I saw a recent cover to JLAdventures, in which the Atom starred - seemed unlikely that a hero turned killer would appear in a kid's title.)
DC will not do anything to its top tier properties (which includes Luthor and the Joker), because they are the ones that make money through licensing. With this limitation, Meltzer did a decent job with the rest of them - he made the non- top tier Satellite era JLA (a revered Silver Age bunch) all complicit to a conspiracy of purposively giving a villain character brain damage, and, worse, made them attack Batman in order to preserve their grubby little secret.
To me, this has mean meaningful repercussions than destroying the Mulitverse in Crisis, because they are character repercussions. Green Arrow was still a good guy after Crisis. But now he's a little suspect - he helped brainwash Batman. Same goes for Zatanna and the rest of the crew. What they did was miserable and unheroic. There are now more shades of grey in the DCU than there has ever been.
My sole but significant criticism of the book remains the rape of Sue Dibny, which I still regard as completely unnecessary and written for the purposes of titilation. But I ahve been through this enough times already and won't belabour the point.
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I agree with Dave that the reprecussions and changes are cool. Don't forget that we now have a Green Arrow/Deathstroke feud as well as a speedster Capt. Boomerang. But, like everyone else said, I felt the ending was weak. The resolution, if you can call it that, was not very interesting. I wanted more from a book that strung me along for seven months. I understand that they are setting up for a lot of shit for the next year of big DCU stories, but it's still sad that this wasn't allowed to go out with a bigger bang.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Quote:
Dave said:
Many people guessed that Jean was the killer, which indicates to me that it had some rationale to it. To me, it made sense, although I agree with you that the Atom would have been a preferable killer.
If you are referring to me, I think you misunderstood.
I'm not saying that it makes no sense for Jean to be the killer. I'm saying it makes no sense why she killed Sue.
As stated before, her claimed motivation makes no sense given what she did and how she did it (and what she apparently brought with her to do it).
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Quote:
the G-man said:
I'm not saying that it makes no sense for Jean to be the killer. I'm saying it makes no sense why she killed Sue.
Unless someone has a better reason, I'm going with she went nuts.
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Terrible last issue for an otherwise great series. It seemed to just fizzle out. Everything's status quo again. No fallout between the League members. No big confrontation with the killer. I expected a few plot threads to extend out to other books, but not ALL OF THEM!
What about Bolt? What was the deal with that? What did the villains win that Chronos was so happy about? Lame.
It was well crafted, and I do think Jean was the intended killer all along. But, man, disappointing resolution.
And as for the challenge, I have no sympathy for Elongated Man. Never liked him, never well. James Robinson couldn't make me like him in Starman either.
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Maybe I'm in the minority, but I liked. I liked it alot. Certainly had a different feel than the end to a lot of other "event" stories....
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
All hail King Snarf!
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Quote:
Unless someone has a better reason, I'm going with she went nuts.
...the lamest, most overused, motive for murder in comic books.
Furthermore, if it was an act of a crazy person that made no sense, then how could Batman solve the mystery based on the "who benefits" theory?
As noted above, there really was no likely benefit to Jean (or any sane person) in killing Sue "accidentally" (if at all).
Therefore, having the Batman solve the case based on motive--when it was really a motivelss crime--is non-sensical.
Like I said before, all they had to do was have Jean intentionally kill Sue and the whole mystery would have held together pretty well. But making it an "accidental" killing unraveled everything.
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Well, once I went and actually read the thing (instead of going off like a candy assed baboon based on spoilers) i did enjoy it. A lot. A lot of new story possibilities open in the DCU. A more nuanced, real life attitiude is there, if you can say such a thing in a world of flying men with capes.
It still stands as probably the best miniseries of the year. Tight, interesting writing, and terrific artwork, actually accomplishing some story points instead of Armageddon 2001'ing itself.
I'm not crazy about the idea that this is just a prelude to a prequel to a miniseries that will REALLY shake things up. Let's tell a story all by itself instead of setting up the next 2 freaking years, hokay?
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You all suck.
It was a great read.
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My biggest problem was that I had to wait a full month for basically the first three pages. Had #6 been a double sized issue with everything in #7 with it, I'd have been cool with it. But they didn't. They made me wait for a full fucking month. Read as a whole in a single sitting, I'm sure it's a great read. Read over a strung out period of seven months, it's kinda a let down.
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I'm with Snarf and Wednesday -- aside from Meltzer not being quite sure how to work cosmic-powered characters in (see his relatively bumbling portrayals of Green Lantern and Firestorm), I enjoyed the series a lot -- the scripting was top notch and Rags remains my favorite artist in comics today...
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I don't fault the craft. It's the lack of. . .closure, I guess. Of any sort of resolution. None of the plot threads were finished off. As I said earlier, I expected certain things to be dealt with in other books. But not ALL of the threads. Give us some sense of satisfaction after stirring us up for so long.
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I liked it. The ending with Ralph talking to his deceased wife struck me as very real life. Jean had a little history of mental problems (at least one nervous breakdown) so her going wacko isn't totally out there. Although the criticism that all she had to do was give Ray a call to get him back is probably valid too.
Fair play!
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Let me be clear:
The ending, which I am admittedly highly critical of, did not destroy my enjoyment of many other aspects of the series.
However, as noted above, I think it is a big flaw in a "murder mystery" to, essentially, "cheat" with the solution the way that Meltzer did.
This may be, in part, my own biases showing. As an attorney, as an attorney with a fair amount of criminal litigation experience, I expect mysteries to hold together a certain, more realistic, way than this one did.
In short, the ending, coupled with a few other flaws here and there, took a potentially great book and made it "only" a "good" one.
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Though to be honest, real people sometimes act in unrealistic ways.
Remember the story you posted about the guy who burned down the courthouse so he wouldn't go to court for a traffic violation. All he had to do was go to court, receive the penalty for a minor offense, and be done with it. Now he's facing a bigger charge on top of that.
Although I liked the story and the various plot developments that came out of it, I do agree with the criticism that it ended without providing much of a shakeup to the status quo, and that the ending was a bit anticlimactic (though having people figure out Jean was the culprit beforehand contributed to that a bit).
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I can't believe you people! You all have overlooked the single most incredible piece of information to come out of this series! Not one of you has mentioned that it is now common knowledge among fandom that... s p o i l e r s p a c e ...Lois Lane Can not COOK!  No wonder she had to chase after a man with an invulnerable stomach! I'm satisfied w/ the series overall. I knew it wasn't Ray and kinda suspected that nutty bitch Jean Loring all along. I mean what was all that garbage back in the day, "Oh Ray! I can't marry you until I send thousands of evil-doers to jail!" Ray should have just paid some young enterprising Co-ed twenty bucks a week and left Jean the nutcase in that cave oh so long ago!
-----once over and twice twisted---------
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I agree that insanity is an overused motivator in literature, and especially comics, and it also leaves open the possibility of Jean being cured.
Another interesting dynamic now also exists between Elongated Man and the Atom.
And I bet we see the Calculator in the pages of Batman (or possibly Birds of Prey, since people have pointed out that the Calculator is the equivalent of Oracle).
Meltzer has painted a lot of new character tension in the DCU with this series. It might be mostly with minor characters (aside from Batman), but its still more characterisation than most of these characters have ever received before.
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I think Wally's gonna crack eventually.
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Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
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Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,230 Likes: 1 |
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 15,546
Living the dream 15000+ posts
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Living the dream 15000+ posts
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 15,546 |
Quote:
LLance said:
...Lois Lane Can not COOK!
No wonder Supes keeps going home all the time!
Seriously though, I hope Ralph didn't take what Ollie said the wrong way (about talking to Sue). I also hope he doesn't end up an alcoholic like a couple panels seemed to indicate.
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 15,546
Living the dream 15000+ posts
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Living the dream 15000+ posts
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 15,546 |
Quote:
I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
I think Wally's gonna crack eventually.
Yeah the guilt will get to him. It'll be cool to see that unfold in future JLA stories.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,353
Award-Winning Author 10000+ posts
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Award-Winning Author 10000+ posts
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,353 |
As for Jean pulling this elaborate stunt to get Ray back when she could've just asked him, my response is this- She's a woman. Women are known to make rash, illogical decisions, especially when it comes to relationships. Kudos to Meltzer for not being afraid to show women as the unstable creatures they are.
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
All hail King Snarf!
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