RKMBs Forums .::Robegories::. Sports and Wrestling Offical MLB steroid forum!

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WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Former St. Louis Cardinals slugger Mark McGwire refused to answer questions about steroid use during his playing career at a congressional hearing Thursday, repeatedly telling a House committee he was "not here to talk about the past."

McGwire, who broke Roger Maris' single-season record for home runs in 1998, was among a panel of current and former all-stars who appeared before the House Government Reform Committee to discuss the use of steroids in the majors.

Two other witnesses -- Baltimore Orioles outfielder Sammy Sosa, McGwire's rival in the 1998 home run chase, and Orioles first baseman Rafael Palmeiro -- denied using steroids.

Asked by St. Louis congressman William Clay whether he could assure fans he had played "with honesty and integrity," McGwire said, "I'm not going to go into the past or talk about my past. I'm here to make a positive influence on this."

He also refused to address allegations of steroid use leveled against him and other ballplayers by his one-time Oakland A's teammate Jose Canseco -- the author of a recent tell-all book on the issue -- and said he would not be "naming names."

"My lawyers have advised me that I cannot answer these questions without jeopardizing my friends, my family and myself," McGwire said.

Canseco told the committee that steroids were "as acceptable in the '80s and mid-to-late '90s as a cup of coffee." And he urged Congress to take action to stop the use of steroids.

"I think it would be a major mistake to let the league police itself, no ifs or buts about it," he said. "We'll be back here quicker than quick."

But baseball Commissioner Bud Selig vowed "zero tolerance" for performance-enhancing drugs, saying drug-test rules negotiated with the players union have been toughened over the past four years.

"I will suspend any player who tests positive for an illegal steroid," Selig said. "There will be no exceptions. The union is aware of that, and they accept it."

Canseco bashed

McGwire retired in 2001. He has previously admitted using androstenedione, a precursor to anabolic steroids and a legal substance at the time.

When Clay, a Democrat, asked what other substances he may have used, he said, "I'm not here to talk about the past."

McGwire acknowledged that "there has been a problem with steroid use in baseball" and said he is willing to help lawmakers combat the use of performance-enhancing drugs by younger players.

But he did not directly address Canseco's allegation in his remarks.

"It should be enough that you consider the source of the statements," he said.

In another jab at Canseco, who was just a few seats away, McGwire said his testimony could be used by prosecutors willing to rely on "convicted criminals who would do or say anything to solve their own problems."

Canseco received probation in 2001 after a brawl outside a nightclub in Miami, Florida, and was jailed in 2003 for violating his probation after testing positive for steroids.

Canseco had asked for immunity from prosecution in exchange for his testimony, but that request was refused. In his book, he also accuses Sosa and Palmeiro of using steroids.

Palmeiro told members of the House committee that Canseco is lying.

"I have never used steroids. Period," Palmeiro said. "I do not know how to say it any more clearly than that."

Sosa said in an opening statement read by his lawyer: "Everything I have heard about steroids and human growth hormones is that they are very bad for you."

In 2001, Barry Bonds of the San Francisco Giants hit 73 home runs to break McGwire's record. Bonds, who has testified before a grand jury in a California steroids case, was not subpoenaed by the House panel.

Chairman: 'Cloud' over game

Earlier, committee members said officials of the national pastime have failed to confront the problem of performance-enhancing illegal drugs.

"There's a cloud over the game that I love," said Republican Tom Davis of Virginia, the panel's chairman.

"I would hope that baseball would see this hearing as an opportunity."

But Selig blamed the "cloud" on critics "who, although well-intentioned, are not well-informed about baseball's multifaceted campaign against such substances."

Lawmakers said they are concerned about steroid use because of the perception it creates among college and high school athletes, pointing to studies showing increased steroid use in youths.

In their testimony, the players offered condolences to the families of young players who committed suicide after taking steroids.

Donald Hooton of Plano, Texas, provided emotional testimony about his 17-year-old son Taylor, who used steroids and killed himself in 2003.

"Let me implore you to take steps to clean up this mess," he told the panel. "Please help us to see that our children's lives were not lost in vain."

"Players that are guilty of taking steroids are not only cheaters, you are cowards," he said.

Panel formed

Boston Red Sox pitcher Curt Schilling and Chicago White Sox designated hitter Frank Thomas, outspoken critics of steroid use, were named to an advisory panel, along with committee leaders. Palmeiro volunteered to serve on that body.

Schilling warned lawmakers against "glorifying the so-called author" or "indirectly assisting him to sell more books."

"A book which devotes hundreds of pages to glorifying steroid usage, in which he contends steroid usage is justified and will be the norm in this country in several years, is a disgrace, was written irresponsibly and sends the opposite message that needs to be sent to kids," he said.

He disputed Canseco's assertion that the major leagues and its players would be unable to police themselves, saying the more than 90 percent of players who don't use steroids want those who do to be exposed.

"I think the fear of public embarrassment and humiliation upon being caught is going to be greater than any player ever imagined," Schilling said.

And even Canseco said that the fact that ballplayers were sitting in front of a congressional committee "is going to be a major deterrent."

The antipathy toward Canseco by his former teammates and rivals was such that committee leaders agreed to swear in the witnesses one-by-one, since the other ballplayers objected to the image of being sworn at the same time as Canseco, said a top committee aide who asked not to be identified.

Questions about punishment

Selig said the players union took an "unprecedented step" in December by reopening its current labor agreement to discuss a stronger policy on performance-enhancing drugs.

President Donald Fehr said the union does not support or condone "the use of any illegal substance."

"We are committed to dispelling any notion that the route to becoming a major league athlete somehow includes the taking of unlawful performance-enhancing substances," he said.

Sen. Jim Bunning, a baseball Hall of Famer, was the first witness. The Kentucky Republican said the league's penalties for a positive steroid test "are really puny."

Players who break the law should be severely punished, and their records should be wiped out, he said.

But Davis and California Rep. Henry Waxman, a Democrat, said a key loophole suspends baseball's steroid policy in the event of a government investigation.

They also blasted baseball officials for hailing the drug policy as the "gold standard" in sport, when its standards fall short of those used by the Olympics.

And despite baseball officials' calls for full public disclosure, the actual policy says all testing results should "remain strictly confidential," they said.

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jafabian said:
The fact that McGwire refuses to answer questions on his usage or invoke his fifth amendment rights tells me he knowingly used anabolic steroids during his playing career. He dodged questions with the deft of Bill Clinton during the Lewinsky hearings. It's dissapointing to me, not that he used them, but that he isn't cooperating. Why players can't follow Arnold Schwarzeneggers lead is beyond me. The govenor has steadfastly admitted use and says he doesn't regret it because it wasn't illegal to use them at that time. MLB players should do the same.

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PJP said:
not necessarily.......these guys weren't talking because they didn'y get immunity.......I believe he took steroids.....it's just that if there was immunity you would have seen him talk more.

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Jim Jackson said:

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jafabian said:
The fact that McGwire refuses to answer questions on his usage or invoke his fifth amendment rights tells me he knowingly used anabolic steroids during his playing career. He dodged questions with the deft of Bill Clinton during the Lewinsky hearings. It's dissapointing to me, not that he used them, but that he isn't cooperating. Why players can't follow Arnold Schwarzeneggers lead is beyond me. The govenor has steadfastly admitted use and says he doesn't regret it because it wasn't illegal to use them at that time. MLB players should do the same.

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The Governator is not up for baseball's Hall of Fame. If Mark admits his use, his Hall Of Fame candidacy is very much in question. Which is what I've said all along. Selig may declare that no asterisks will be attached to any of these Steroid Numbers/Records, but Bud has no control over the BBWAA. And it is that group that votes for the Hall of Fame. And those guys are notoriously numbers-conscious and reverential of history.

Frankly, I agree with HoFer Jim Bunning, who said that all numbers from a steroid-using player's career should be wiped out. I don't care if it steroid use was formally illegal within the game or not. Now, I'm not naive enough to believe, at this time, that that will happen.

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britneyspearsatemyshorts said:
also Bud cannot directly effect a vote but he can indirectly. in order to keep Rose out when it appeared he would have enough votes despite his lifetime ban a rule was inacted to bar anyone on the lifetime competition list from being inducted. bud could easily invoke a similar rule for anyone admitting to steroid use.

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britneyspearsatemyshorts said:
yes he can, he has the ability to remove anyone from consideration.

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Jim Jackson said:

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britneyspearsatemyshorts said:
yes he can, he has the ability to remove anyone from consideration.

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Dude, he won't fucking need to remove any of these steroid users from consideration. I see no way that the BBWAA will toss tons of support behind McGwire's candidacy if he admits (or it's discovered) that his best years were steroid-fueled.

If Bud's saying he doesn't advocate asterisking any of these 'roid records, I can't see that he'll remove any of the users from HoF consideration...

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Jim Jackson said:
Frankly, I agree with HoFer Jim Bunning, who said that all numbers from a steroid-using player's career should be wiped out.

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Pig Iron said:
And animalman compared baseball to football and the olympics..the olympics have been doing it for decades and people are finally getting busted because they have a policy....

Football always has had a policy and there isn't a problem...ask romanowski..

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Animalman said:

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Jim Jackson said:
Frankly, I agree with HoFer Jim Bunning, who said that all numbers from a steroid-using player's career should be wiped out.

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Until the day a time machine is invented, that's an idea that simply can't work. We can't know exactly who did and didn't take steroids, and when they did or didn't. You can't just eliminate a few select players numbers because they got bigger over their careers(or because they had one or two seasons that were better than their others). That's idiotic.

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Animalman said:
No, I was not calling you an idiot. I was saying that the idea of singling out a few players as steroid-users, based on nothing more than a sudden increase in muscle or stats, and erasing their careers for that, is idiotic.

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WASHINGTON (AP) -- Saying Major League Baseball ``can't be trusted,'' Sen. John McCain warned Sunday that legislation might be needed to force the sport to change its steroids policy.

The Arizona Republican joined the chorus of congressmen expressing disappointment with baseball's drug-testing plan after testimony from commissioner Bud Selig and union head Donald Fehr at the House Government Reform Committee hearing on steroids Thursday.

``It just seems to me they can't be trusted,'' McCain told ABC's ``This Week.''

``What do we need to do? It seems to me that we ought to seriously consider ... a law that says all professional sports have a minimum level of performance-enhancing drug testing,'' McCain said.

Committee chairman Tom Davis, R-Va., said on CBS' ``Face the Nation'' that he agreed with McCain's suggestion that the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency could be called in to govern baseball's testing. The independent agency oversees drug testing and discipline for U.S. Olympic athletes.

Davis, whose committee subpoenaed current and former stars and baseball executives to testify Thursday, said he's willing to wait and see how Major League Baseball handles drug testing and punishment in 2005.

``They've got this season. We'll see how they respond when they find someone testing positive,'' Davis told CBS.

Asked about possible government intervention, baseball's executive vice president for labor relations, Rob Manfred, told CBS, ``Commissioner Selig said unequivocally in the hearing that if Congress decides that federal legislation is appropriate, that he would be supportive.''

In March 2004, McCain's Senate Commerce Committee held a hearing on steroids in baseball, pressure that helped lead to the drug-testing plan that owners and players agreed to in January.

Several lawmakers were particularly critical of two provisions in that agreement: one that allows players to be fined instead of suspended for failing a drug test, and another that calls for testing to be suspended if there's a government investigation.

``I was a little dubious about the necessity of having hearings because I had been told that baseball had installed a weak, but legitimate, regimen,'' McCain said. ``I now applaud my colleagues in the House because what this highlighted was the absolute insensitivity of both the owners and the players to the American people.''

He also offered advice to Mark McGwire, the retired slugger who repeatedly evaded questions about his and others' steroid use.

``The first thing Mark McGwire should do is get himself a new lawyer,'' McCain said. ``I was saddened by what he had to say, and it's unfortunate because he's one of America's heroes.''

NEW YORK (AP) -- After listening to criticism from Congress, baseball players and owners agreed to drop the possibility of fines for steroid use and leave suspensions as the only discipline.

Members of Congress repeatedly pummeled baseball officials for the fine possibility during Thursday's hearing before the House Government Reform Committee. Management told the committee it was willing to eliminate the fine provision, held over from baseball's first drug-testing agreement in 2002, but union head Donald Fehr said he would have to consult with players.

``We do have an agreement with Don that the language after the disjunctive in the various disciplinary levels is going to be eliminated,'' Rob Manfred, baseball's executive vice president for labor relations, said Sunday. ``It will be just the straight suspension, which everybody knew was going to happen anyway. To the degree there was any doubt, I think this change should put to rest any concerns in that regard.''

Players and owners announced the agreement Jan. 13, but it hasn't been finalized.

``The agreement still has to be ratified, but the negotiators have agreed to modify that language,'' said Michael Weiner, the union's general counsel.

Commissioner Bud Selig repeatedly said during the hearing that his intent was to suspend players for all positive tests.

``We're glad the policy is now closer to what it was purported to be,'' David Marin, spokesman for committee chairman Tom Davis, said in an e-mail to The Associated Press. ``If our inquiry achieves nothing more than getting baseball to give its policy the teeth it said it had, we will have done some real good.''

Baseball's new agreement had called for a 10-day suspension or up to $10,000 fine for a first positive test. A second positive was to result in a 30-day suspension or up to $25,000 fine, a third in a 60-day suspension or up to $50,000 fine and a four in a one-year suspension or up to $100,000 fine.

After that, discipline is determined by the commissioner.

Now, it's suspensions only.

Earlier Sunday, Sen. John McCain said he thought legislation may be needed to force a tougher plan.

``It just seems to me they can't be trusted,'' the Arizona Republican told ABC's ``This Week'' on Sunday. ``It seems to me that we ought to seriously consider ... a law that says all professional sports have a minimum level of performance-enhancing drug testing.''

Davis said on CBS' ``Face the Nation'' that he agreed with McCain's suggestion that the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency could be called in to govern baseball's testing. The agency oversees drug testing and discipline for U.S. Olympic athletes.

``They've got this season. We'll see how they respond when they find someone testing positive,'' the Virginia Republican said.

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Jim Jackson said:
We have Jose Canseco's unabashed admission he did roids.

We have Jason Giambi's testimony.

We have Bonds's statement that he "unknowingly" used the cream and the clear.

I feel confident more evidence will come out further indicting Bonds or others. It's inevitable at this point.

Why not wipe out their records? Why not make them examples?

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NEW YORK (AP) -- Mark McGwire could be shut out from the Hall of Fame because of baseball's swirling steroids scandal, heightened by the slugger's refusal to answer specific questions about performance-enhancing drugs before Congress, an Associated Press survey showed.

Barry Bonds appears to have enough support to get in, but he's far from a shoo-in, according to the sentiments of 155 Hall of Fame voters who responded to the survey. They are among the roughly 500 members of the Baseball Writers' Association of America who will be eligible to vote when McGwire is on the ballot in two years.

Of the 155 who responded, 65 said they would vote for McGwire or were leaning that way; 52 said they would not or were leaning that way. The remaining 38 were undecided.

Players must be approved on 75 percent of ballots cast to make the Hall.

Among the voters surveyed who expressed an inclination, only 55.6 percent said they supported McGwire's induction.

``I will not vote for Mark McGwire,'' Bill Plaschke of the Los Angeles Times said. ``It's obvious from his own statements he used some form of performance-enhancing drugs and it's obvious from his statistics he did not become a Hall of Fame-type player until he did so.''

Bonds won 80.8 percent approval among yes-or-no voters, with 105 votes for election and 25 against. The remaining 25 were undecided.

Based on their career numbers alone, Bonds and McGwire would seem undeniable candidates for Hall of Fame induction. McGwire ranks sixth on the home runs list with 583, but will be best remembered for his heroic 1998 season, when he hit 70 home runs to shatter Roger Maris' decades-old record of 61.

Bonds eclipsed McGwire's mark in 2001 by slugging 73 home runs. But he is now within reach of an even bigger prize: His 703 career home runs are just 52 shy of Hank Aaron's career record, and he needs just 11 to pass Babe Ruth.

Among the 20 players to hit 500 homers, all who have appeared on the ballot are in the Hall. The steroid scandal, however, seems to be weighing on the minds of many voters who could help break that streak.

``Right now I'm sort of sitting on the fence, but leaning toward not voting for McGwire or Bonds because they cheated,'' said Hal McCoy of the Dayton Daily News, himself a member of the Hall's writers' wing.

``McGwire had the opportunity to say something, but didn't. To me, that's sort of like pleading the Fifth Amendment and not denying he did it,'' he said.

Dan Le Batard of The Miami Herald said he would vote for both.

``Barry Bonds is the greatest player of our lifetime, with or without steroids. He won three MVPs as a stick figure,'' he said. ``I don't think they were cheating. Something has to be against the rules for you to be cheating. Despite their size, these guys climbed through a loophole.''

Baseball did not ban steroids until 2002.

Subpoenaed by a congressional committee to testify last week, McGwire repeatedly refused to discuss whether he used illegal performance-enhancing drugs, saying he would not talk about the past.

The slugger was roundly criticized by fans, media and politicians -- even in Missouri, the state where he broke Maris' season home-run record while playing for the St. Louis Cardinals.

``He had a chance to help himself, help his sport, a chance to help kids and the parents sitting behind him and he just whiffed,'' said Jay Mariotti of the Chicago Sun-Times. ``It might as well be a guilt admission.''

Leading up to his testimony before the congressional panel, McGwire had repeatedly denied using steroids. As had Bonds, who was not asked to appear before Congress. But Bonds, according to the San Francisco Chronicle, testified to a grand jury in 2003 that he used a clear substance and a cream given to him by a trainer who was indicted in a steroid-distribution ring, saying he didn't know if they were steroids.

In any case, Henry Schulman, who covers the Giants for the Chronicle, plans to vote for both.

``The Hall of Fame is not a museum for saints. It's filled with racists, philanderers, players who used cork bats and spitters and everything at their disposal to their advantage,'' he said. ``It's hard for me to single McGwire out. Unless he commits a crime, he's on my ballot.''

As for Bonds, Schulman said: ``I think he was a Hall of Famer before he had those monster home run seasons. ... Even if he were convicted of a crime, I would probably give him my vote to be consistent within myself. I've always felt Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame. I'd have to get some damning evidence confirmed on Barry before I would knock him off my first ballot.''

There's no telling when members of the Baseball Writers' Association of America will be asked to decide on Bonds -- players must be retired for five years before going on the ballot.

The AP contacted members of the BBWAA who are eligible to vote or will be by 2007 and asked whether they would support Bonds and/or McGwire for the Hall. Seventeen of those were AP sports writers.

This year, 516 votes were cast for the Hall by BBWAA voters, who must be members of the organization for 10 consecutive years or more to be eligible. The total of eligible voters is likely to increase slightly by the time McGwire and Bonds appear on the ballot.

The following AP Sports Writers contributed to this report: Nancy Armour, Bob Baum, Dave Campbell, R.B. Fallstrom, Rick Gano, Fred Goodall, Stephen Hawkins, Joe Kay, Tim Korte, Larry Lage, Rob Maaddi, Janie McCauley, John Nadel, Alan Robinson, Arnie Stapleton, Doug Tucker, Howard Ulman, Joseph White, Bernie Wilson, Steven Wine and Tom Withers.

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Home-run records are the least of baseball's concerns: I got a phone call late last week from The Associated Press: Would I vote for Bonds and McGwire for the Hall of Fame based upon perceptions, however erroneous, of steroids use during their record-breaking, home-run-binge years?

My answer: I want to see more evidence and entertain fewer perceptions. I want to know -- to repeat -- what they were taking, when they were taking it, and its likely effects on their performances.

I don't expect any of that data will be provided satisfactorily.

Which is why I can do quite nicely, for now, without having to cast imaginary votes for either player. We'll see in a few years, with much more clarity, how much of an aberration those 70-home-run seasons really were.

I suspect -- suspect -- Bonds' efforts will be viewed as having been so exceptional, for so many years, that he'll be heading to Cooperstown. He'll be judged as having transcended steroids' effect if they are part of his story.\

McGwire is another issue. He had the dramatic record-breaking season in 1998, he hit 571 home runs, but if steroids were part of his script, he probably finishes beneath the line because he can't begin to match Bonds' stratospheric numbers and longevity.

But I also don't care whether each gets a plaque because their candidacies are way beneath the more important matters that steroids and baseball are all about: public health, effects on kids who have been tempted to try steroids, the smearing of reputations and the warped performances that could have been induced by the presence of illegal -- according to federal law -- performance enhancers.

I could also have stood for Congress to have gotten on this month with other, more critical matters. But whether it was intervening for limelight's sake in the steroids flap, or in the matter of Terri Schiavo, Congress had more self-aggrandizing opportunities.

And it's sad to say we shouldn't have expected otherwise.