|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
|
OP
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
 Capt. David Rozelle Amputee who returned to active dutyHere's what usually happens when a soldier is injured so badly that he loses a limb--he receives a medal, a lot of rehab, and a prosthetic limb, and then retires from active duty. While Capt. David Rozelle, whose right foot was torn off in an anti-tank mine explosion in Iraq, did get the Bronze Star with Valor and the Purple Heart, he had no intention of retiring. Earlier this year the 33-year-old athlete from Texas returned to active duty in Iraq. In doing so, he became the first amputee in recent military history to resume a dangerous command on the same battlefield. Returning to duty was one of many goals that the remarkable Rozelle had set for himself along the way.
One of his first goals was to walk out of the hospital on his prosthetic foot in time for his son's birth. He did that and was there on August 5, 2003 when son Forrest was born. Next on the list? Return to playing sports, something he avidly pursued before his injury. Rozelle bravely spent hours in physical therapy so that by December 2003, he could ski on two legs down the Colorado mountains near his home. He became a national spokesman for Disabled Sports USA.
"There are times I definitely feel disabled, (but) getting back to skiing was getting back to life," Rozelle told USA Today. Next up? Being declared "fit for duty," which meant he could return to his life as an Army captain. By March 2004, he'd received that declaration. "This is who I am," he said. "A cavalryman. I love this job." Within days of the first anniversary of losing his foot, he was back in charge of the 3rd Armored Cavalry's headquarters unit in Fort Carson, Colorado.
In 2005 Rozelle has continued to astonish everyone. He competed in his tenth triathlon, published a memoir called "Back in Action: An American Soldier's Story of Courage, Faith and Fortitude," and in March he left for active combat duty in Iraq.
To learn more about the Wounded Warrior Disabled Sports Project, click here.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
|
|
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,353
Award-Winning Author 10000+ posts
|
|
Award-Winning Author 10000+ posts
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,353 |
One man who never has to worry about getting Athlete's Foot.
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
All hail King Snarf!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,657
1500+ posts
|
|
1500+ posts
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,657 |
A heart warming story, G-man. Simply stepping on a land mine doesn't qualify as heroic by my standard. A hero by the classical definition is someone that puts their own life in jeopardy to aid another in a dangerous or deadly situation. Going to Iraq and getting your foot blown off doesn't qualify. Even if you're dumb enough to go back for more.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
|
|
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,680
1500+ posts
|
|
1500+ posts
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,680 |
Quote:
magicjay38 said:
A heart warming story, G-man. Simply stepping on a land mine doesn't qualify as heroic by my standard. A hero by the classical definition is someone that puts their own life in jeopardy to aid another in a dangerous or deadly situation. Going to Iraq and getting your foot blown off doesn't qualify. Even if you're dumb enough to go back for more.
what article did you read? The one I just read, the one that Gman posted, said nothing about him stepping on the landmine. For all you know, he was in a jeep or some other vehicle when that happened.
That does happen you know
It's a rented tux ok? I'm not going comando in another man's fatigues.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,353
Award-Winning Author 10000+ posts
|
|
Award-Winning Author 10000+ posts
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,353 |
Quote:
the G-man said:
While Capt. David Rozelle, whose right foot was torn off in an anti-tank mine explosion in Iraq,
I'm guessing that magicjay inferred that Rozelle stepped on the mine.
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
All hail King Snarf!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,993
2500+ posts
|
|
2500+ posts
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,993 |
Quote:
magicjay38 said:A hero by the classical definition is someone that puts their own life in jeopardy to aid another in a dangerous or deadly situation. Going to Iraq and getting your foot blown off doesn't qualify. Even if you're dumb enough to go back for more.
If you look at the Greeks, Romans, Native Americans, English, Scandinavians, Arabs, Christians, Jews and even the French, most of their heroes throughout history have been soldiers who fought for their country/people. Odyssus, Caesar, King Arthur, King David, Gilgamesh and Beowulf are a few examples and I'm you can find others if you would ever take the time to read a book. A soldier who triumphs dispite a crippling wound would make any of these "classic" cultures weep for joy.
Reveling in the knowledge that Sammitch will never interrupt my nookie ever again.
112,000 RACK Points!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,353
Award-Winning Author 10000+ posts
|
|
Award-Winning Author 10000+ posts
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,353 |
Here, here! God Bless America and Merry Christmas!
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
All hail King Snarf!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,657
1500+ posts
|
|
1500+ posts
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,657 |
Quote:
Killconey said:
Quote:
magicjay38 said:A hero by the classical definition is someone that puts their own life in jeopardy to aid another in a dangerous or deadly situation. Going to Iraq and getting your foot blown off doesn't qualify. Even if you're dumb enough to go back for more.
If you look at the Greeks, Romans, Native Americans, English, Scandinavians, Arabs, Christians, Jews and even the French, most of their heroes throughout history have been soldiers who fought for their country/people. Odyssus, Caesar, King Arthur, King David, Gilgamesh and Beowulf are a few examples and I'm you can find others if you would ever take the time to read a book. A soldier who triumphs dispite a crippling wound would make any of these "classic" cultures weep for joy.
The concept of heroic I speak of is from The Hero with a Thousand Faces -- by Joseph Campbell. It's frequently used in college courses on mythology.
Simply getting your foot blown off is not heroic. If it happened as he went to out in a fire fight to rescue a wounded commrade, that's heroic. Leading a charge into battle, that's heroic, too.
Stepping on a mine or rolling a Humvee, that's an accident.
Going back for more, that's careerism. The guys 32 and only a Captain? Should't he have hit Major by now?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
|
|
OP
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
Quote:
Going back for more, that's careerism. The guys 32 and only a Captain? Should't he have hit Major by now?
I defer to someone who's actually been in the military on most of those points, vis a vis "careerism." Perhaps Wednesday or someone else will back you up.
However, do you really think it necessary to impugn the man's intelligence and/or character with insinuations related to the fact he's "only a Captain [and not a] Major"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 45,820
cobra kai 15000+ posts
|
|
cobra kai 15000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 45,820 |
i'd kinda havta agree with magicjay, at least on the basic notion of the "hero" label.
"great guy"? absolutely. "inspiration"? better fucking believe it. but "hero" connotes a little more than what i read about in this article (to me, anyway) and its a phrase we're pretty much throwing around at random, lately.
for example, the "heroes" that died in the NYC terrorist attacks.
to me, the people that ran out of the building; not hereos. the people that ran back in, heroes.
i'm not saying anything negative about those i'd deem "not heroes." im sure many were fantastic people, beloved family members, town leaders, etc, etc. i'm not in any way critiquing their character or persona or actions or decisions, and i absolutely mean no offense by my statements. i simply wouldn't refer to them as "heroes," any more than i'd refer to them as "fishermen." to me, it was simply a mislabel.
then again, speaking ill, even if just clarification, of the recently deceased is a real dicky move.
giant picture
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 41
25+ posts
|
|
25+ posts
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 41 |
Quote:
Rob Kamphausen said:
then again, speaking ill, even if just clarification, of the recently deceased is a real dicky move.
I agree. Although he had a point, he could have stated it with more tact. 
From ME.... DUH!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
|
|
OP
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
Quote:
Rob Kamphausen said:the people that ran back in, heroes.
Wouldn't you say that losing your foot and volunteering to return to war in a foreign country is, in fact, basically "running back in"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 45,820
cobra kai 15000+ posts
|
|
cobra kai 15000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 45,820 |
i guess.
its not a splitting hairs kinda thing. i can't really specify what qualifications would officially register you as a hero or not.
in this specific case, if you're forcing my hand, i think i'd much more readily qualify this guy as "inspirational" before "heroic." not that a hero-argument couldn't be made, and not that i couldn't even be swayed by said argument, but... i think the former much more adequately describes what i've read, versus the latter.
giant picture
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 22,618
Your death will make me king! 15000+ posts
|
|
Your death will make me king! 15000+ posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 22,618 |
Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Going back for more, that's careerism. The guys 32 and only a Captain? Should't he have hit Major by now?
I defer to someone who's actually been in the military on most of those points, vis a vis "careerism." Perhaps Wednesday or someone else will back you up.
Depends. We don't know how old he is when he joined. He could have been 26, or even older if he received a waiver.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 22,618
Your death will make me king! 15000+ posts
|
|
Your death will make me king! 15000+ posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 22,618 |
I'd say this guy isn't necessarily a hero for going back on active duty. There are many people who rejoin because, simply, they fear the alternatives. Not to say anything bad about those who choose to return for that reason, one of them is a very good friend of mine, but that decision didn't make him a hero in my eyes or his. Plain and simple, as with any other career or job, there are going to be those who simply don't feel they fit in anywhere else. Doubly so for military personnel, strippers, and priests.
At the same time, I don't think this makes him any less a hero. Or an idiot. Or flawed.
It really depends, in my mind, on his reason for going back. If he went back because he wants to defend truth, justice, and the American way for all of us, despite his disability, I'd call him a hero. I'd want to shake his hand. If he rejoined because he was only a few years away from a retirement check, or because he wanted national attention, or because he figured they'd never send someone with a prosthetic limb back on the front lines, I'd call him smart but not a hero.
It's the thought that counts.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,993
2500+ posts
|
|
2500+ posts
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,993 |
Almost makes me want to call the guy on the phone and ask him so we can get this resolved.
Reveling in the knowledge that Sammitch will never interrupt my nookie ever again.
112,000 RACK Points!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 24,106
faggot 15000+ posts
|
|
faggot 15000+ posts
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 24,106 |
Totally agree on the 'hero' question. Not heroic to me.
If I wanted to read into the article and get something out of it to stick up my ass with a hair, I would say he's making it more difficult for those people who are injured in war and do not go back. Suddenly their contributions mean less since they weren't willing to repeat their actions.
Or maybe I'd say, he has a son. Shouldn't he stay home with his wife(?) and son? His boy will need a daddy. He already escaped death once, is he trying for suicide by military?
But I don't want a hair up my ass. He likes killing people for what I consider bullshit. He overcame an affliction. Good stregnth of character in that.
I'm done.
Old men, fear me! You will shatter under my ruthless apathetic assault!
Uschi - 2
Old Men - 0
"I am convinced that this world is of no importance, and that the only people who care about dates are imbeciles and Spanish teachers." -- Jean Arp, 1921
"If Jesus came back and saw what people are doing in his name, he would never never stop throwing up." - Max von Sydow, "Hannah and Her Sisters"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
|
|
OP
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
Since any soldier risks death in the military, are you saying that soldier's shouldn't be allowed to have children?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
|
|
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203 |
Quote:
the G-man said:
Since any soldier risks death in the military, are you saying that soldier's shouldn't be allowed to have children?
they shouldn't do it because its not fair to the child.
so far, however, only the republicans want to limit family life.
Bow ties are coool.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
|
|
OP
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
Quote:
the G-man said:
Since any soldier risks death in the military, are you saying that soldier's shouldn't be allowed to have children?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,801
terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
|
|
terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,801 |
I think what this guy is doing is very impressive, even inspiring. It takes a lot of courage to go back to a place where your life was nearly taken so you can do what you feel is right. If we can shower our praise on an injured football player who gets back on the field to help his team win the big game, I don't see how we can't appreciate a maimed soldier going back to the front lines to help his country. If you don't at least respect his courage and level of conviction, I think there's a little room to doubt your sense of humanity.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 24,106
faggot 15000+ posts
|
|
faggot 15000+ posts
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 24,106 |
Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
Since any soldier risks death in the military, are you saying that soldier's shouldn't be allowed to have children?
I'm saying he's done his duty. Maybe that wouldn't have any influance on you decision but it would mine. His first goal was to be self-mobilized by his son's birth. I figured that ment baby had some special meaning.
Old men, fear me! You will shatter under my ruthless apathetic assault!
Uschi - 2
Old Men - 0
"I am convinced that this world is of no importance, and that the only people who care about dates are imbeciles and Spanish teachers." -- Jean Arp, 1921
"If Jesus came back and saw what people are doing in his name, he would never never stop throwing up." - Max von Sydow, "Hannah and Her Sisters"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
|
|
OP
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
Quote:
Uschi said
I do not support the troops.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 24,106
faggot 15000+ posts
|
|
faggot 15000+ posts
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 24,106 |
Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Uschi said
I do not support the troops.
Do you have a point? I'm not pro-war.
Old men, fear me! You will shatter under my ruthless apathetic assault!
Uschi - 2
Old Men - 0
"I am convinced that this world is of no importance, and that the only people who care about dates are imbeciles and Spanish teachers." -- Jean Arp, 1921
"If Jesus came back and saw what people are doing in his name, he would never never stop throwing up." - Max von Sydow, "Hannah and Her Sisters"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 24,106
faggot 15000+ posts
|
|
faggot 15000+ posts
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 24,106 |
Looking from a soldier's perspective (oh gosh! I do know, respect, and am friends with soldiers!!!) I would think he might have more lean towards not going overseas if his child really ment that much.
Old men, fear me! You will shatter under my ruthless apathetic assault!
Uschi - 2
Old Men - 0
"I am convinced that this world is of no importance, and that the only people who care about dates are imbeciles and Spanish teachers." -- Jean Arp, 1921
"If Jesus came back and saw what people are doing in his name, he would never never stop throwing up." - Max von Sydow, "Hannah and Her Sisters"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
|
|
OP
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
Quote:
the G-man said:
Since any soldier risks death in the military, are you saying that soldiers shouldn't be allowed to have children?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 24,106
faggot 15000+ posts
|
|
faggot 15000+ posts
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 24,106 |
Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
Since any soldier risks death in the military, are you saying that soldiers shouldn't be allowed to have children?
Are you fucking broken? Someone smack G-Man so he stops skipping.
Last edited by Uschi; 2005-12-19 1:09 AM.
Old men, fear me! You will shatter under my ruthless apathetic assault!
Uschi - 2
Old Men - 0
"I am convinced that this world is of no importance, and that the only people who care about dates are imbeciles and Spanish teachers." -- Jean Arp, 1921
"If Jesus came back and saw what people are doing in his name, he would never never stop throwing up." - Max von Sydow, "Hannah and Her Sisters"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
|
|
OP
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
Is this your way of avoiding my question, Uschi?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,062
1000+ posts
|
|
1000+ posts
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,062 |
Seems like you're putting everyone on the spot without bothering to answer the question yourself. What's YOUR response to the question, G-Man?
And so you know my side, I don't think it's up to me to decide whether a soldier should or shouldn't have children. It's their responsibility, not mine. I only hope they make the right decision regarding their family and the risks they have to endure.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
|
|
OP
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
I can see merit in the notion of requiring soldiers to forgo children during their tours. But I also think its completely impractical.
However, I don't see how you can call a soldier, or a police officer, or a fire fighter, or any other dangerous profession, less heroic simply because he or she has children.
If anything, the fact that someone risks his life when he has something to live for like kids makes that person more heroic.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,062
1000+ posts
|
|
1000+ posts
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,062 |
Quote:
the G-man said:
However, I don't see how you can call a soldier, or a police officer, or a fire fighter, or any other dangerous profession, less heroic simply because he or she has children.
Are you talking to Uschi or me?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
|
|
OP
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
I was using "you" in the general sense, as in "I don't see how a person can call a soldier..."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,062
1000+ posts
|
|
1000+ posts
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,062 |
OK, G-Man. Just checking...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,657
1500+ posts
|
|
1500+ posts
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,657 |
Quote:
Uschi said:
Are you fucking broken? Someone smack Gay-Man so he stopps skipping.
Watch it Uschi! He's not one of ours!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,657
1500+ posts
|
|
1500+ posts
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,657 |
Quote:
the G-man said:
I can see merit in the notion of requiring soldiers to forgo children during their tours. But I also think its completely impractical.
However, I don't see how you can call a soldier, or a police officer, or a fire fighter, or any other dangerous profession, less heroic simply because he or she has children.
If anything, the fact that someone risks his life when he has something to live for like kids makes that person more heroic.
Life is risky. The unexpected happens to people everyday. You can't live your life worrying about somthing that might happen. Love your spouse, love your children and buy some life insurance. Members of the armed forces have as much right reproduce as anyone else.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 24,106
faggot 15000+ posts
|
|
faggot 15000+ posts
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 24,106 |
Quote:
the G-man said:
Is this your way of avoiding my question, Uschi?
If you went to even an American public school like I did you can read. I already gave my response.
Old men, fear me! You will shatter under my ruthless apathetic assault!
Uschi - 2
Old Men - 0
"I am convinced that this world is of no importance, and that the only people who care about dates are imbeciles and Spanish teachers." -- Jean Arp, 1921
"If Jesus came back and saw what people are doing in his name, he would never never stop throwing up." - Max von Sydow, "Hannah and Her Sisters"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 24,106
faggot 15000+ posts
|
|
faggot 15000+ posts
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 24,106 |
Quote:
Uschi said:
If I wanted to read into the article and get something out of it to stick up my ass with a hair ... maybe I'd say, he has a son. Shouldn't he stay home with his wife(?) and son? His boy will need a daddy. He already escaped death once ... he's done his duty. Maybe that wouldn't have any influance on you decision but it would mine. His first goal was to be self-mobilized by his son's birth. I figured that ment baby had some special meaning ... might have more lean towards not going overseas if his child really ment that much.
i.e. Soldiers can have kids, no prob on my end. But war is pretty fucking notorious for getting people un-alive. I personally would have a hard time throwing myself at insurgants when I had a kid in the back seat. I see blips on the news all the damn time about dads and moms sending video greetings to their families and kids. I see stories all the time about kids who don't have their parents while growing up because of, say, an anti-tank mine. If he's already done his thing I find it irresponsable for him to go back.
By the way, I agreed with not seeing the guy as a hero. I did not expand on that line of thought as my sentiments had been expressed previously in the thread and I didn't WANT to be redundant. By putting in a paragraph break I thought I was showing how I was changing topics. My bad G-Man. My bad.
Last edited by Uschi; 2005-12-19 1:13 AM.
Old men, fear me! You will shatter under my ruthless apathetic assault!
Uschi - 2
Old Men - 0
"I am convinced that this world is of no importance, and that the only people who care about dates are imbeciles and Spanish teachers." -- Jean Arp, 1921
"If Jesus came back and saw what people are doing in his name, he would never never stop throwing up." - Max von Sydow, "Hannah and Her Sisters"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 24,106
faggot 15000+ posts
|
|
faggot 15000+ posts
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 24,106 |
Quote:
magicjay38 said:
Quote:
Uschi said:
Are you fucking broken? Someone smack Gay-Man so he stopps skipping.
Watch it Uschi! He's not one of ours!
Sorry. I'll go rectify that. It was totally uncalled for on my part.
Old men, fear me! You will shatter under my ruthless apathetic assault!
Uschi - 2
Old Men - 0
"I am convinced that this world is of no importance, and that the only people who care about dates are imbeciles and Spanish teachers." -- Jean Arp, 1921
"If Jesus came back and saw what people are doing in his name, he would never never stop throwing up." - Max von Sydow, "Hannah and Her Sisters"
|
|
|
|
|
