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slightly relating to this thread...
so, for my job, we're doing some holiday themed designs and such, and are always told to be wary of people celebrating all holidays / religions. like, "don't put a christmas tree in there, cuz many of our fans are jewish." stuff like that.
now, i work and live in and out of manhattan, where i've always had a decent chunk of jewish friends. thus, this has always been no big deal to me -- making things religiously equal has been a consistant thought, all through out my upbringing. ill just use snow instead of santa, or snow covered evergreens instead of christmas trees, that sorta thing.
but, just for kicks, i decided to look up just what percentage of america celebrated hanukkah and, to a lesser extent, kwanzaa.
in my mind, it was like 70% christmas, 20% hanukkah, and, like, 2% kwanzaa (because its relatively unknown), leaving that infamous "other" at 8%.
but.... man, was i off on the jewish breakdown, at least according to this:
http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html#religions
in short, in 2001, this was the adult breakdown:
Christianity - 159,030,000 - 76.5%
Nonreligious/Secular - 27,539,000 - 13.2%
Judaism - 2,831,000 - 1.3%
1.3%!! less than 2%!! its less than i semi-jokingly assumed celebrated kwanzaa!
according to this chart, there are 300,000 druids in the country, which is more than 10% of the jewish population.
barring the notion that these stats hold up... is anyone else as shocked as me?
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I always knew it was around 2%....Greeks are roughly the same number. It's shocking cause we live in an area that is full of jewish people.......maybe not so shocking in Lincoln Nebraska.
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It doesn't surprise me. In fact, I've tried to point this out to Mrs. G (who is jewish) on a number of occasions.
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I'm surprised. I live in Tamarac, but I used to live in Pembroke Pines, and before that I lived in Miami where there was a heavy Jewish population. I went to a high school next to a Jewish community, so many of my friends growing up were Jewish. And my current girlfriend is Jewish. My life's been Jew-tastic!
So I was expecting a higher number. 5-10% would've been my guess.
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Wednesday and G-Man should buy this CD for their loved ones this year for Hanukkah.....they will love it.... www.theleevees.com they were the featured song this past week on Grey's Anatomy.
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i am totally baffled by this. i mean... holy fuck... 1%!! in any other poll, that'd be statistically insignificant! 8% of computer users are on a mac. 30 million (10 plus %) have severe hearing loss. fuck, according to this site there are 5 times more blind people in the country than jewish people ... so maybe we shouldn't have any holiday decorations, because its unfair to them?? now, im not suggesting for one minute that we cancel hanukkah, or that we consider jewish people insignificant, or any other such jumped-to conclusion. i just find these stats amazing -- shocking, even. but, its interesting to note that any other poll that would result in a category being receiving less than 5% of the vote, let alone less than 2%, would basically result in that category being excluded or ignored.
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I swear most of those blind people live here in Eugene. I see a couple of them everyday.
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Quote:
Rob Kamphausen said:
i am totally baffled by this.
i mean... holy fuck... 1%!! in any other poll, that'd be statistically insignificant!
8% of computer users are on a mac. 30 million (10 plus %) have severe hearing loss. fuck, according to this site there are 5 times more blind people in the country than jewish people ... so maybe we shouldn't have any holiday decorations, because its unfair to them??
now, im not suggesting for one minute that we cancel hanukkah, or that we consider jewish people insignificant, or any other such jumped-to conclusion.
i just find these stats amazing -- shocking, even.
but, its interesting to note that any other poll that would result in a category being receiving less than 5% of the vote, let alone less than 2%, would basically result in that category being excluded or ignored.
Jews are not the ones causing a commotion about Christmas.....in fact most of them love it.
It's the atheists and the scumbag fuckface arabs.
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Quote:
PJP said:
Wednesday and G-Man should buy this CD for their loved ones this year for Hanukkah.....they will love it.... www.theleevees.com they were the featured song this past week on Grey's Anatomy.
Thanks, but I'm way ahead of you. My 16 year old is a big fan of Guster and when I heard that one of the Guster guys had done this side project, I ordered her the album for Hanukkah. From the sound clips I've heard it is, in fact, pretty good.
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Without getting conspiratorial, I think that the Jewish religion gets more play than other minority religions because the adherents of same are especially prominent in the fields of law, government and media.
I'm not saying the jews "control" any of those. However, it would be ignoring reality to pretend that, for example, Louis Brandeis, Joe Lieberman and Stephen Spielberg being Jewish didn't, or doesn't, affect their work...work that affects/affected millions nationwide.
Also, there is the fact that Judaism is probably the closest religion to Christianity in that Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism. Look, for example, at how we refer to many of our traditions as "judeo-christian."
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This doesn't surprise me. Living in/near the NYC area where there is a large Jewish population may give the false impression that there are a large % of Jews everywhere, but while we are 1.3% of the US population that percentage gets even smaller when we get to the world view - we make up only .02% of the world's population.
 Dear, sweet Harley Kwink...I'm madly in love with you. Marry me! We can go to Canadia. Or Boston or something. It'll be grand...You know the cookies are a given. They are ALWAYS a given. You could dump me tomorrow and you'd still get the cookies. Boston..shit, wherever dyke weddings were legalized. And where better to rub their little piggie noses in how bad they suck than right on their doorstep? What are they gonna do? Be jealous of you? Stare furiously at your tah-tahs? Not willingly give you cookies, but instead begrudgingly give you their cookies? Woman, time to wake up to the powers you wield - Uschi
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
PJP said:
Wednesday and G-Man should buy this CD for their loved ones this year for Hanukkah.....they will love it.... www.theleevees.com they were the featured song this past week on Grey's Anatomy.
Thanks, but I'm way ahead of you. My 16 year old is a big fan of Guster and when I heard that one of the Guster guys had done this side project, I ordered her the album for Hanukkah. From the sound clips I've heard it is, in fact, pretty good.
Total aside:
I heard Guster's Barrel of a Gun yesterday - first time I've actually heard them - cool song.
Dear, sweet Harley Kwink...I'm madly in love with you. Marry me! We can go to Canadia. Or Boston or something. It'll be grand...You know the cookies are a given. They are ALWAYS a given. You could dump me tomorrow and you'd still get the cookies. Boston..shit, wherever dyke weddings were legalized. And where better to rub their little piggie noses in how bad they suck than right on their doorstep? What are they gonna do? Be jealous of you? Stare furiously at your tah-tahs? Not willingly give you cookies, but instead begrudgingly give you their cookies? Woman, time to wake up to the powers you wield - Uschi
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Guster is the nicest most humble group of guys you could ever meet......all Jewish!
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Guster is the nicest most humble group of guys you could ever meet......all Jewish!
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Quote:
Rob Kamphausen said:
"don't put a christmas tree in there, cuz many of our fans are jewish."
As I stated on the other thread, I don't know why people assume we're bothered by Christmas. We're not. As long as nobody's trying to force us to convert, or trash our religion, we don't care what the rest of you get up to (and feel free to tell this to your boss).
Besides, the whole point of Hannukah is that a foreign power tried to suporess our religion and deny us the right to practice it, in order to force us to convert and be like them (it's one of our many "they tried to destroy us, we survivied, let's eat" holidays.) So we are not going to go around pulling that on other people.
I also never cease to be amused regarding how much Christmas/Easter/Halloween candy is kosher certified.
Last edited by Darknight613; 2005-12-14 9:43 PM.
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Quote:
Darknight613 said:
Quote:
Rob Kamphausen said:
"don't put a christmas tree in there, cuz many of our fans are jewish."
As I stated on the other thread, I don't know why people assume we're bothered by Christmas. We're not. As long as nobody's trying to force us to convert, or trash our religion, we don't care what the rest of you get up to (and feel free to tell this to your boss).
Besides, the whole point of Hannukah is that a foreign power tried to suporess our religion and deny us the right to practice it, in order to force us to convert and be like them (it's one of our many "they tried to destroy us, we survivied, let's eat" holidays.) So we are not going to go around pulling that on other people.
I also never cease to be amused regarding how much Christmas/Easter/Halloween candy is kosher certified.
 That bolded line is soooo true!!
But yeah, pretty much what he said.
Dear, sweet Harley Kwink...I'm madly in love with you. Marry me! We can go to Canadia. Or Boston or something. It'll be grand...You know the cookies are a given. They are ALWAYS a given. You could dump me tomorrow and you'd still get the cookies. Boston..shit, wherever dyke weddings were legalized. And where better to rub their little piggie noses in how bad they suck than right on their doorstep? What are they gonna do? Be jealous of you? Stare furiously at your tah-tahs? Not willingly give you cookies, but instead begrudgingly give you their cookies? Woman, time to wake up to the powers you wield - Uschi
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Quote:
Darknight613 said:
As I stated on the other thread, I don't know why people assume we're bothered by Christmas. We're not.
of all the jewish people i've known in my life (which i'd have to think is like a quarter, which is why i'm so stunned by this report), not one was ever upset or offended by a christmas tree. hell, many of my jewish friends had a christmas tree!
i have to figure a small group (even smaller than the jewish group!) is so anally PC that they're ruining life for everyone on your "behalf," and every one else's in every other retarded instance like this.
and those people, armed with their lawyers, are the ones that inforce the various web site restrictions.
Quote:
Darknight613 said:
Quote:
Rob Kamphausen said:
"don't put a christmas tree in there, cuz many of our fans are jewish."
As long as nobody's trying to force us to convert, or trash our religion, we don't care what the rest of you get up to (and feel free to tell this to your boss).
which? mr khan? mr grossfield? or mr grossman?
...personally, i think i'll pass on the santa 
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Quote:
Darknight613 said:
Quote:
Rob Kamphausen said:
"don't put a christmas tree in there, cuz many of our fans are jewish."
As I stated on the other thread, I don't know why people assume we're bothered by Christmas. We're not. As long as nobody's trying to force us to convert, or trash our religion, we don't care what the rest of you get up to (and feel free to tell this to your boss).
Besides, the whole point of Hannukah is that a foreign power tried to suporess our religion and deny us the right to practice it, in order to force us to convert and be like them (it's one of our many "they tried to destroy us, we survivied, let's eat" holidays.) So we are not going to go around pulling that on other people.
I also never cease to be amused regarding how much Christmas/Easter/Halloween candy is kosher certified.
Heh.
Jesus celebrated Hannukah. Most of the early Church celebrated it, as there wasn't yet such a forced separation between them and their Jewish heritage. The proximity of Saturnalia to Hannukah was one of the factors in its Christmasization™ (hah! new one!). I think the two holidays are pretty intertwined, and as such should both receive at least a respectful amount of representation.
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Quote:
Rob Kamphausen said:
Quote:
Darknight613 said:
Quote:
Rob Kamphausen said:
"don't put a christmas tree in there, cuz many of our fans are jewish."
As long as nobody's trying to force us to convert, or trash our religion, we don't care what the rest of you get up to (and feel free to tell this to your boss).
which? mr khan?
 KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!
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The entire reason we got a Shatner emoticon was so we wouldn't have to say "KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN"!
Dumbass.
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That's Shatner?
I thought it was Home Improvement's Tim Allen!
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Quote:
Pariah said:
The entire reason we got a Shatner emoticon was so we wouldn't have to say "KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN"!
The emoticon by itself wasn't enough.
Quote:
Dumbass.
Asshole.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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Quote:
Darknight613 said:
I don't know why people assume we're bothered by Christmas. We're not.
I'd guess because of people like this:
The sign at McDonald's on the corner of Falls of Neuse and Spring Forest Road reads: "Merry Christmas, Jesus is the Reason for the Season." It is a holiday message that Amanda Alpert thinks comes on a little too strongly.
"It offends me because it specifically talks about Jesus, Merry Christmas. It doesn't give credit to anyone else," Alpert said.
Alpert called the McDonald's corporate office in Atlanta and requested that the sign be changed to the politically correct Happy Holidays.
"I care because I'm Jewish, and the reason for the season is upsetting to me," Alpert said.
I'm not saying she's representative, but the publicity she draws doesn't help the perception.
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If I were running that Mickey D's franchise, I'd have the sign say "Merry Christmas" and leave it at that.
Do I, a non-Christian, find "Jesus is the reason for the season" offensive? No, not offensive. It wouldn't make me not patronize that franchise. But the sign is too preachy, IMHO. Let's just say at my business I would not condone putting that phrase up on a sign or marquee. I would put "Merry Christmas," but I'd leave it at that. Let people get a religious message about the holiday in church.
And please, don't tell me "We only have Christmas because of Christ. It HAS to be a religious, Christian holiday." No, it doesn't. Our culture in the United States has molded Christmas into a time for family togetherness, sharing memories, the spirit of giving (both internal and external to one's family). Religious or spiritual messages like Yule or the birth of Jesus are not a mandated aspect of Christmas in America.
Last edited by Jim Jackson; 2005-12-15 2:33 PM.
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
And please, don't tell me "We only have Christmas because of Christ. It HAS to be a religious, Christian holiday." No, it doesn't. Our culture in the United States has molded Christmas into a time for family togetherness, sharing memories, the spirit of giving (both internal and external to one's family). Religious or spiritual messages like Yule or the birth of Jesus are not a mandated aspect of Christmas in America.
Festivals of the Winter Solstice go back to pre-historic times. No spiritual path has a monopoly on the season.
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Quote:
And please, don't tell me "We only have Christmas because of Christ.
You're absolutely right, CHRISTmas has little or nothing to do with CHRIST. Infact I'm sure we'd have CHRISTmas even if there was no CHRIST. I think the reason we have CHRISTmas is because of some guy named Steve. CHRISTmas is latin for "Steve's Mass" It wasn't untill the 50s when people were putting God in the pledge and on our money that someone niticed that coincidently the Latin word for Steve sounded like the religious term Christ.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
And please, don't tell me "We only have Christmas because of Christ.
You're absolutely right, CHRISTmas has little or nothing to do with CHRIST. Infact I'm sure we'd have CHRISTmas even if there was no CHRIST. I think the reason we have CHRISTmas is because of some guy named Steve. CHRISTmas is latin for "Steve's Mass" It wasn't untill the 50s when people were putting God in the pledge and on our money that someone niticed that coincidently the Latin word for Steve sounded like the religious term Christ.
The name is not the issue. Obviously Christmas was named with Christ as the reason.
But several religions have a holiday season during that time. In fact Christmas was placed there-not due to Christ's birth which they didn't know exactly-to accomodate the Pagan's Winter Solstice.
Bow ties are coool.
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
And please, don't tell me "We only have Christmas because of Christ.
You're absolutely right, CHRISTmas has little or nothing to do with CHRIST. Infact I'm sure we'd have CHRISTmas even if there was no CHRIST. I think the reason we have CHRISTmas is because of some guy named Steve. CHRISTmas is latin for "Steve's Mass" It wasn't untill the 50s when people were putting God in the pledge and on our money that someone niticed that coincidently the Latin word for Steve sounded like the religious term Christ.
The name is not the issue. Obviously Christmas was named with Christ as the reason.
But several religions have a holiday season during that time. In fact Christmas was placed there-not due to Christ's birth which they didn't know exactly-to accomodate the Pagan's Winter Solstice.
Jim said Christmas just like Dean said we can't win just like Kerry said our troops terrorise women and children. Do you people ever stick by what you say?
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
And please, don't tell me "We only have Christmas because of Christ.
You're absolutely right, CHRISTmas has little or nothing to do with CHRIST. Infact I'm sure we'd have CHRISTmas even if there was no CHRIST. I think the reason we have CHRISTmas is because of some guy named Steve. CHRISTmas is latin for "Steve's Mass" It wasn't untill the 50s when people were putting God in the pledge and on our money that someone niticed that coincidently the Latin word for Steve sounded like the religious term Christ.
Feel better?
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Darknight613 said:
I don't know why people assume we're bothered by Christmas. We're not.
I'd guess because of people like this:
The sign at McDonald's on the corner of Falls of Neuse and Spring Forest Road reads: "Merry Christmas, Jesus is the Reason for the Season." It is a holiday message that Amanda Alpert thinks comes on a little too strongly.
"It offends me because it specifically talks about Jesus, Merry Christmas. It doesn't give credit to anyone else," Alpert said.
Alpert called the McDonald's corporate office in Atlanta and requested that the sign be changed to the politically correct Happy Holidays.
"I care because I'm Jewish, and the reason for the season is upsetting to me," Alpert said.
I'm not saying she's representative, but the publicity she draws doesn't help the perception.
No, it doesn't. Although griping about a Jesus message isn't quite the same as griping about someone saying "Merry Christmas" to you or seeing a Christmas display. It may come off as prosyletizing to some people, which is something we have an issue with (I'm sure you recall my "we don't have a problem as long as nobody's trying to convert us" comment). I don't personally consider this to be a conversion attempt, but there will be people who might see it as such.
(I left comments about this on the other thread, which I'm about to edit after thinking them over.)
Still, it would be ignorant for anyone to say that one Jew represents the opinion of every Jew, since we never agree on anything (from experience, I've learned the phrase "Two Jews, Three Opinions" is very true.)
Last edited by Darknight613; 2005-12-15 11:54 PM.
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So what are those Jews for Jesus guys all about? They were handing out fliers on Union Square last weekend.
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Quote:
magicjay38 said:
So what are those Jews for Jesus guys all about? They were handing out fliers on Union Square last weekend.
They're a missionary group whose goal is to convert Jews to Christianity. The name is misleading, as they're not actually Jewish - they use the term "Jews For Jesus" and Jewish iconography to lure in Jews to try and convert them. I've even heard they consider themselves to be part of the evangelical church.
Last edited by Darknight613; 2005-12-16 12:39 AM.
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terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
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Most are Messianic Jews - I don't think Jewish orthodoxy considers them Jewish though. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
Most are Messianic Jews - I don't think Jewish orthodoxy considers them Jewish though. Correct me if I'm wrong.
You're not wrong, except that nobody considers them to be real Jews. It's another gimmick to try and get Jews to convert.
I've also heard numerous Christian organizations criticize Jews for Jesus and Messianic Jews for their deceptive tactics.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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yeah, but Jews for Jesus has such nice alliteration...
We all wear a green carnation.
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wannabuyamonkey said:
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And please, don't tell me "We only have Christmas because of Christ.
You're absolutely right, CHRISTmas has little or nothing to do with CHRIST. Infact I'm sure we'd have CHRISTmas even if there was no CHRIST. I think the reason we have CHRISTmas is because of some guy named Steve. CHRISTmas is latin for "Steve's Mass" It wasn't untill the 50s when people were putting God in the pledge and on our money that someone niticed that coincidently the Latin word for Steve sounded like the religious term Christ.
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I didn't think this merited a thread of its own, and this seemed like an apporopriate place to put this. http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticl...;archived=FalseQuote:
US Jews feel threatened by religious right
By Michael Conlon
CHICAGO (Reuters) - U.S. Jewish leaders say they are increasingly worried that Christian conservatives want to turn America politically and culturally into a country that tolerates only their brand of Christianity.
"There is a feeling on all sides that something is changing," said Abraham Foxman, director of the New York-based Anti-Defamation League.
"The polls indicate a very serious thing -- that over 60 percent of the American people feel that religion and Christianity are under attack," he said on Thursday in an interview.
"Some are saying we are attacking (Christianity). This whole movement is not anti-Semitic or motivated by anti-Semitism. But sometimes unintended consequences are much more serious than intended" he added.
Foxman recently arranged a meeting in New York involving six Jewish organizations to discuss the problem. He said that while participants did not agree on the exact level of the problem, they felt a strategy was needed.
"It's not a war room strategy," he added. "It's to understand what's out there."
He said Jews are a people of faith but are opposed to anyone who would say only they know the truth and want to impose it on everyone else.
While every December brings disputes over what to call the "holiday season" and its trappings, the level of lobbying by those who fear Christmas is becoming something generic has been particularly high this year.
But the issues raised by Foxman and others goes much deeper into American society, ranging from challenges to teaching evolution to bans on abortion and same-sex marriage or deciding what kind of people who should serve on the U.S. Supreme Court.
"Every room (from bedroom to classroom) in the American mansion is under assault to impose either de facto or de jure a Christian theocracy -- I call them Christocrats," said Rabbi James Rudin, former head of interreligious activities for the American Jewish Committee.
"They are people who believe there should be a legally mandated Christian nation, where the concept of separation of church and state is weakened or abandoned," he added.
Rudin said he has met pastors "who say that Jesus Christ is the ultimate leader of America and that God's law trumps the Constitution ... I'm very concerned."
While far from all evangelical Christians hold those views, he said, the influence of those who do is strong.
Rudin, whose book "The Baptizing of America: The Religious Right's Plans for the Rest of Us" will be published in January by Avalon, said those with a theocratic agenda are not anti-Semites, and in fact some of them are among the strongest supporters of the state of Israel.
But he said they are Christians who see secular humanists and globalists as their enemies and who feel they are being attacked.
Mathew (cq) Staver, general counsel of the Florida-based Liberty Counsel, a group which backs conservative Christian causes in court and which has been particularly active in Christmas-related issues, says "there is absolutely no effort that I'm aware of to theocratize America or put down other faiths to expand Christianity."
He credits the increased activity surrounding Christmas issues this year to three years of building an organization over the matter.
"People have said enough is enough," he said, citing such incidents as naming Boston's Christmas tree a "holiday tree" and the publication of a sales catalog by a major retailer which featured Kwanza and Hanukkah gifts but made no mention of Christmas.
President George W. Bush, who describes himself as a born-again Christian, also faced criticism recently for sending out cards wishing people a happy "holiday" season.
"This clearly demonstrates that the Bush administration has suffered a loss of will and that they have capitulated to the worst elements in our culture," William A. Donohue, president of the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights told the Washington Post.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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I have no problem wishing Christians a Merry Christmas. I hope all my Christian friends enjoy this season and it's holiday as much as I enjoy Chanukah which begins next Sunday night.
I really don't understand why people have to make a big deal about nothing.
Jay, enjoy Yuletide (Did I get that right?).
Back to this "Holiday Season" thing, technically, it is the holiday season, but a Christmas tree is a Christmas tree as much as a Chanuka Menora (Chanukiah, Chanukah candle hodler). Enought PC nonsense. If a McDonalds wants to have a Merry Christmas sign, that's just fine with as I don't eat at any of their establishments. That goes for Litter Ceasars, Pizza Hut, Burger King, etc. And I don't expect Jewish restaurants to replace Happy Chanukah signs with Happy Holidays. What next, Chinese restaurants not having signs for the Chinese new year in China Town?
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